| IVOD_ID |
15766 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15766 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-27T08:31:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-27T12:07:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:35:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc25f9b1f895064d3b1fc48310b441d33d3be8d109af184be4c458a61f6a8281d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關（含事業單位）列席就「政府機關推動人事服務數位轉型」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。
【其中7案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:20 - 12:07:00 |
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1720.806 |
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報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議意思錄立法院第11屆第一會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議意思錄實現中華民國113年3月21日星期四上午9時至12時59分 |
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1741.528 |
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1755.269 |
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地點本月紅樓302會議室出席為黃委員國昌等13人列席為謝委員依奉等11人列席官員立法院秘書長周萬來等人主席吳昭吉委員鐘憲報告事項依宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定 |
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1756.531 |
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1780.308 |
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二、邀請立法院秘書長列席就中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議．進行專題報告．並備質詢本次會委員黃國昌等17人提出質詢委員陳俊宇等2人提出書面質詢決定一報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關請訴送交個別委員及本會通過臨時提案二項宣讀完畢 |
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好那因為現場人數我們稍後再確認議事錄接下來介紹道場委員及應邀列席官員先介紹在場委員黃總昭國昌歡迎您接下來介紹應邀列席官員首先介紹行政院人事行政總處蘇俊榮人事長歡迎您懷旭副人事長歡迎您 |
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1810.731 |
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1834.391 |
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公務人力發展學院陳明忠院長歡迎您綜合規劃處周威庭處長歡迎您主編人力處張翠娟處長歡迎您培訓考用處陳月春處長歡迎您給予福利處林錦惠處長歡迎您 |
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1837.495 |
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1866.291 |
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人事資訊處莊素怡處長歡迎您主計是陳立惠主任歡迎您人事是裘明娟科長歡迎您接下來介紹行政院主計總處公務預算處陳理培元檢證視察歡迎您接下來介紹法務部矯正署周輝煌署長歡迎您 |
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1880.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
接下來介紹內政部移民署陳建成副組長歡迎您接下來介紹國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司馮輝燊總經理歡迎您好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1887.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1912.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
本次議程呢．除邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長及行政院相關機關．含事業單位．列席就政府機關推動人事服務數位轉型進行專題報告．並備質詢外另有報告事項及討論事項所列之113年度行政院人事行政總處預算解凍案．因報告事項第4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1913.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1924.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
之預算解凍案經昨日院會附議該案原依開會通知單所載不予處理特別先向委員會提出說明那稍後我們先請 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1927.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1947.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
機關代表就專題報告及預算解凍案一併報告那尋答時則採用綜合尋答尋答完畢再按照議程報告事項及討論事項依序進行處理好現在進行報告請行政院人事總處書務人事長報告請就專題報告及預算解凍案一併報告發言時間6分鐘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1956.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1963.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早人事總處緊就推動人事服務數位轉型進行檢要報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1964.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1986.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
因應整合數位科技的發展以及全球對ESG永續議題的重視人事總處藉由推動業務數位轉型導入整合資訊化的管理提升人事服務效能並透過與考試院的合作引領行政院所屬個人事機構提供數位化的整合式優質人事服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1989.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2008.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
請問能夠在提升效率的同時也能夠逐漸實現聯合國永續發展SDGs的目標人事總處在推動人事數位轉型有三大執行策略第一在數位服務上我們積極辦理應用知通信科技醫化服務提升效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2009.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2032.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
例如推動獎勵令跟人事派免令的無紙化電子化 112年我們已經達到146萬件的無紙化推動電子化採請管理到112年為止我們全國已經有3200個機關學校導入建置智慧客服提供考試入企人員分配作業停班停課辦公日曆表等20項的即時諮詢服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2035.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2063.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
此外我們在整個推動跨機關人事資料查核善用公務人力資料庫協助機關在前者範圍內進行公務人員身分驗證作業例如我們政府部門資訊及治安人才的資料庫那整個資訊服務的範圍擴及了前國55萬的公教人力以及前國8100多個機關透過數位化的推動從人事作業減值化開始促進公部門的減值 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2065.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2074.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
截止檢探第二在數位治理上我們積極推動資料治理提升施政決策精準度應用公務人力資料倉儲等資料庫進行數據分析除了規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2079.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2108.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
政府公務人力的選用、預留等各面向業務的資料統計及選研達500件每年也自行辦理了10多項的統計分析並且以學術界進行人事資料的研究互惠合作的機制透過氣勢配合人事資料進行跨領域資料分析強化人事行政化的一個管理第三在確保自通安全的前提下我們強化自通安全打造可信賴的人事服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2109.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2124.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
未來,我們也將持續致力於人事業務電子化、跨機關系統及資料的整合、AI輔助人事業務、優化大數據分析技術、提升內部資訊安全管控及防務等各項工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2125.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2139.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
並持續透過人事數據分析協助政府機關．評估並推動數位轉型．善用科技技術簡化政府作業流程．減輕人工作業的負擔．提升用能效率呼應2050進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2141.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2156.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
排放及永續發展,邁向共好接下來我們人事總處113年預算解凍案共有7案以下做簡要的說明有關報告事項3基本行政工作維持凍結200萬提出書面報告一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2159.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2185.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告四項五公教人員分上生意及子女教育補助凍結兩百萬提出書面報告三份報告四項六七人事行政政策規劃及發展凍結三十萬及二十萬各提出書面報告一份報告四項八基於福利制度的規劃凍結七萬五千元提出書面報告一份報告四項九人力學院訓練輔導及研究凍結三百萬提出書面報告一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2187.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2204.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
討論事項人事行政制政策規劃及發展凍結30萬提出書面報告一份以上即提出9份書面報告。懇請各位委員支持同意解凍。謝謝。好,謝謝所有人事長。接下來請移民署陳副總報告時間5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2221.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2241.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席、各位委員、先進、大家好、大家早安首先感謝各位委員就政府數位型轉型計畫對移民署、國境政策查驗及各縣市服務站櫃台第一線的工作人員工作量是否減量的重視接下來進行專題報告、敬請各位委員會執導 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2243.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2268.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一、現況的說明為完善旅客自動化通關的作業移民署規劃分3年建置61座第4代自動查驗通關系統並以構置新的查驗工作站來提升查驗作業效率其能舒緩國境證照查驗人員的勤務量及壓力本署建置航選旅客資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2270.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2297.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
審查、定位等篩略作業系統．成效如下．去年有效的事先阻絕256名旅客搭機來台．國境線上查獲106件偽變照護照來台案．自動查核比對11081名疑似涉嫌的對象．有效的減少查處． |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2299.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2326.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
及在遣返、照護等人力本屬已建置智慧人流預估分析儀表板協助入境查驗作業、評估人力需求或將持續改善經濟二、因應推動業務數位資訊化的配套措施本屬規劃建置旅客風險綜合評估系統及AI旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2327.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2347.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
政見自動歸附系統結合大數據的分析針對違法違規資料所獲得高風險旅客的資料以AI來進行比對降低高風險的旅客入境我國的風險並有效減少人力的負荷 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2347.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2375.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
另外,我們已請數位發展部協助本署導入先進的生物特徵辨識技術及研議精進,徵召查驗通關的流程．並實際就該部所提建議來做滾動的一個檢討．以提供旅客更精準、優質的服務並確保國境安全。三、策進作為為加速推動數位化及設備的更新本署 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2376.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2403.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
本屬實施擴大自動通關旅客的試用範圍其能擴大系統使用的效能降低國境查驗人力的一個工作壓力此外規劃簡化外來人口申辦居停留作業的流程並實施精進線上的申辦作業減少各縣市服務站臨櫃作業人力令定期收集新興科技的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2404.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2421.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
延伸本署未來AI規劃與應用的方向．並延提計劃來爭取預算．以精進本署勤業務的一個發展．並創造正面的一個效益是決語本署時序推動國境安全管理． |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2422.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2447.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
及與各縣市服務站第一線同仁的智慧化作業並擴大自動通關旅客適用範圍提升生物特徵辨識成功率等措施積極爭取經費推動數位轉型令滾動調整人力配置其人力支援達到最大化的一個效益以上報告進行委員會議指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2449.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2473.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好謝謝陳副署長陳副署長報告的內容就是本期這次安排有關於透過資訊科技來提升我們請回我想非常的切重本次會議的那麼接下來呢我們機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄另外先做會議程序之宣告上午會議時間與詢答結束後繼續進行至議程所列 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2477.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2488.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
解凍案均處理完畢為止。那麼由於議事錄呢期之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定現在我們先確認議事錄請問各位上次會議事錄有無錯過遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2490.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2508.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有?好,那麼我們一事如確定現在進行詢答本會委員詢答時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間5分鐘並不再延長上午10點30分截止發言登記請登記第一位黃總召國昌委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2531.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2555.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩有請人事長。好,請人事長。人事長早,在今天的解讀報告當中,去年有立委提案,凍結你們的預算是希望有關於軍公教條性的機制,待於審議委員會裡面必須要有基層員工的代表。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2557.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2578.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
當初在凍結的時候講得很具體請你們提出改革的規劃跟改革的啟程重點是改革的規劃跟改革的啟程但是我拜讀完你們整份提供給本委員會的書面報告我們直接講結論你們的結論是不是認為沒有改革的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2579.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2608.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
報告委員我們事實上內部已經我們提了兩個一個方向的一個評估那一定會在上次會議我先提一下我們就是論事先從解凍報告來講在解凍報告方面要提基層員工代表你們的結論我看到的是維持現行規定辦理就好所以我才問你說你們今天報告的結論是不是沒有改革的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2610.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2632.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
絕對不是好那如果不是的話那你今天這個報告顯然有內容不齊全的問題啊因為你們改革的規劃的期程跟內容在凍結案的時候所要求的內容我在這份書面報告裡面完全沒有看到還是我哪裡有該看到我沒有看到的嗎改革的期程跟內容在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2633.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2655.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我這裡跟委員報告這個資料是在1月18提的解凍然後3月份的時候我們在質詢的時候我們有答應今年一定會提出來那現在我跟委員補充報告一下我這樣講好了啦今天委員會台城你的解凍報告如果是1月寫的到今天為止如果內容不齊全的你是不是應該要補你是不是應該要補 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2660.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2675.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我我相信我我承認是按照委員的意見不過我必須要跟委員報告一點因為現在是要由制度化變法制化的過程我們是內部在研議到底是要研議多久就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2677.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2699.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
今年一定會把法制化這件事情我今天為什麼請教人事長說還要研議多久從今天的整個要解凍的書面報告該寫的東西沒有寫剛我已經講得很清楚人事長你也同意了但我們來看一下就是教師公會 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2701.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2717.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他們所提出的訴求然後你們說你們未來會朝向法制化規劃進行我的理解沒有錯嗎沒有錯好但為什麼這些基層的公務人員大家對於政府的承諾沒有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2718.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2738.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
因為這句話從2016年講到現在2024年8年了8年了如果今天是第一次講沒有履行承諾大家會覺得有期待有想像有信心但8年過去原地踏步 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2739.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2767.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
為什麼大家今天會對於人總今天所提出來的說我們未來會朝向這個方向我們會深入的研議繼續的研議不斷的研議這件事情沒有信心我想我代表很多基層員工的心聲反映給人總知道而且他們所提的不是沒有依據喔從2016年在立法院這邊做出的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2768.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2787.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
到立法院法治局從2017年的報告說從法律保留的原則最好是要由法律來加以規範這個條性機制到2021年又再做報告連監察院都看不下去監察院說啊拖太久了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2788.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2803.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
拖延過久有欠積極這8個字這不是我說的這監察院說的大家都在等等了8年了原地踏步我相信人事長應該可以體會大家的心情這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2804.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2829.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我已經不知道該怎麼說了8年過去的原地踏步大家沒有辦法接受我相信將心比心你應該可以理解第二個重點就是目前我們公務人員的考機制度我自己長期的觀察有兩個最大的問題一個是勞役不均一個是考機失靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2831.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2841.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
聯繫長你看一下我PPT上面做的新聞從我們基層的公務員到中央的公務員有過勞的猝死的腦溢血的這些例子非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2851.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2878.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
但是從一般民眾的角度上面來講是為什麼有一些公務員他們在他們的工作職位上會超到連寶貴的生命都消失另外一些公務員可能大家在看他們工作上面的負擔相對而言就很輕鬆所以勞役不均的問題非常嚴重第二個嚴重的問題是什麼?烤雞的失靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2880.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2883.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
人事長你知不知道我們上次考積法修正是什麼時候?應該是...現行的考積法嗎?只是他...當然啊他不是廢紙的也不是未來的是現行的考積法沒有錯106年有檢討過啦106年有檢討過那檢討過以後呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2906.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2914.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那今年...來我直接跟您說啦上次修...上次修考機法的時候是2007年啊沒有啦,106年是2017年啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2920.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2936.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
上次說的是2007年那我為什麼會關注這樣子的一個問題是雖然法律沒有明確的規定但是現在考機評價等比例的上限考試院告訴我說是人種定的沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2937.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2955.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
不是不是是考試院自己定的沒有沒有五院秘書長五院秘書長是府院秘書長五院五院的秘書長他們共同定考甲等的比例上限就是大家協商那大家協商考甲等上限的法律授權基礎在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2957.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2972.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
事實上他是備受考計法然後大家去協商一個沒有在考計法裡面明確寫這個就是我的問題嘛吼現在您告訴全體國人我們考計法假等的比例啊是由五院秘書長大家協商來定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2974.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2974.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以...欸... |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2994.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3019.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
事實上齁在我們的了解是每一個國家都沒有一個法定比例只是說大家去協商出一個非常好齁沒有一個固定的法定比例嘛是結果大家用協商的方式來決定攸關於公務人員重大權利的事項我剛請教你的問題是說你認為在現代的法治國家這樣子做是合時宜的嗎這是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3023.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3049.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我想要跟委員報告這個是一個管理工具的部分這是一個管理工具的部分那事實上我們跟前序部也在今年我再提一下公務人員在他們從事公務的過程當中其實他們每年最在意的是什麼他們工作的表現要反映在哪裡考積在考積嘛那考積會不會影響到他們每一年年終領的數額 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3051.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3066.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
還有他的升遷對嘛這麼重大的事情恐怕不是說考機是一個管理的工具一句話就帶過囉您是人事長全國的公務員員都在看著您這只是一個管理的工具嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3067.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3081.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
考積的結果沒有關射到公務人員重要的權利義務嗎?顯然是有嗎?那你還是認為說這只是個管理的工具沒有法律授權的依據五月秘書長這樣幹沒有問題嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3084.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3105.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
事實上這幾年運作下來我們當然有配合整個COVID我們整個烤雞的夾等比例有在往上調升我現在跟你在問A你又移到B了嘛COVID的部分你們還是五位秘書長去喬嘛我現在核心的關鍵是說在法治國家這樣子做是適宜的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3106.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3128.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
沒關係我問題點出來了啦恐怕你今天站在你的位置上也很難回答但有另外一個奇怪的現象就是我從以前觀察到現在為什麼關等越高的加等的比例越高檢認、建認、委任我從中央公務人員來請人事長看一下如果是檢認的 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3129.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3157.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
沒有被考假的就假以下的不到5%到兼任的升到17.49%到委任的25.25%我再往下地方公務員一模一樣檢認沒有考到假的2.24%結果到委任的時候26.76%為什麼我們的考機制度運作出來的結果是關越大考機越好這是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3159.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3179.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
不過我這裡要跟委員報告基本上我們在中央機關的運作上面有些新的任務交下來基本上我們會從上面篩下去所以你的理論是說因為檢任他們接比較多新的任務所以他們夾點的比例比較高您的意思是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3180.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3202.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
它基本上它的loading會相對會比較高可是它是一個相對不是一個絕對的概念它是一個相對絕對的概念然後鑑認的話這個部分當然就是你有時候每一個不同Level它的Loading的工作的出力出力包含你的勞力還有勞力的部分事實上是不一樣的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3203.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3228.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
時間到了齁我最後只有一個請求一般的民眾看到這樣的結果很多公務員看到這樣的結果心裡面會打一個問號是不是關等越高假等就越高是不是關等越高假等就越高在進行考積的時候怎麼樣做到除了公平性以外可以發揮考積制度的功能這件事情是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3229.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3230.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
接下來有請省委員發會質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3260.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3283.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主席我們先請蘇人事長有請蘇人事長委員長人事長早我想我們今天我們是本委員會特別安排有關這個行政機關推動人事服務的數位轉型的部分的做專題報告那我也很仔細的看了你們的這個這個專題報告的書面內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3287.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3307.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
裡面一個有一個點引起我的特別的關注跟興趣這個你在這個書面報告的第二頁裡面有提到一個這個我們現在目前各機關日常人力資源管理作業資訊的資訊化提到建置一個網路網際網路版的一個人力資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3309.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3333.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個管理資訊系統這個WebHR大概是Human Resource的意思這個WebHR的系統那我就去了解你們這個系統你們目前的運用我發現你們這個系統不只是你所提的這個有關這些什麼公務員的個資、考積、權序、任免、獎章、獎懲除了這個以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3334.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3352.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我看我們有關於這個中央行政機關的這個原額評鑑法的原額評鑑每兩年一次的原額評鑑我看你們也要也用這個書面審查你們也是填寫在這個H這個WebHR上面來做書面審查是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3353.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3379.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
是,事實上這一點我利用這個機會跟委員說明一下因為兩年一次的懸額評鑑我們不希望大家花費太多時間去填所以很多東西就填完以後他直接在資料庫裡面可以馬上做進一步的分析那我現在就是針對從這裡就針對這個中央行政機關懸額評鑑的這件事情我有一些不了解的地方來就教於這個我們人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3381.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3406.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
第一個就是我們這個目前這個這個行政機關中央行政機關的原額評鑑我們的法規依據是什麼是中央政府機關總原額法對不對總原額法大概第8條第3項我們有在第8條第3項我們提到說一機關每兩年應該評鑑所屬的二級機關的這個原額總數的合理性對不對就是這應該就是這一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3408.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3437.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那我們目前的這個每兩年進行一次我知道好像今年要再進行這一次對不對到3月底之前他們必須在這個這個WebHR上面把它填表完成對不對對對好3月底以前那是是我想請教這個人事長齁我們現在目前我們現在填完表之後我們大概整個進行的這個這個程序簡單的講一下我們所進行評鑑的這個程序好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3446.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3465.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
就是你們填完之後進行書面審查嘛對不對那書面審查完以後會召開一些綜合座談對不對綜合座談再來有一些機關你們要實地訪查會有會有會挑一些實地訪查這個我們按照這個行政院行政院我們行政院自己有一個這個今年度113年度辦理所屬二級機關所屬二級主管機關的原額評鑑計畫有一個評鑑計畫按照你們的評鑑計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3474.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3486.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
你們有提到這個說這個本這個未了解當前政府重要政策業務區塊人力運用納入部分所屬三級四級機關辦理實地房市對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3489.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3512.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們兩年前上一次的評鑑由哪一些由哪幾個三級機關四級機關我們做了實例訪視上一次因為這次還沒決定嘛今年還沒有還沒有開始上一次都是以二級機關為主這一次上所以上一次的三級機關四級機關是零就對了對對對這一次特別加入三級這一次特別加入嘛這是有法規依據的啦齁我知道這個這個你們訪視三級機關四級機關這個是有法規依據對不對有沒有這 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3520.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3536.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們之前有一些個案我們就進行這些個案我這裡剛好利用這個機會跟委員說明一下像原來的05局改成林業局管理署或者水利署或者你們今年預計要做的三級機關、四級機關房市有哪一些? |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3537.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3540.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
法務部的部分,矯正新設的部分,然後還有我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3558.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3581.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
還有會移民署移民署的這一塊我們也會有做一些那個部分的保持你請他們先整理那6個機關等一下用念的念給我聽光你這樣念的時間就好這個我要了解說實地訪視現在目前以3級機關4級機關為主我們上一次上這個上一次應該是111年度上一次111年度我們2級機關有沒有去做實地訪視 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3584.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3598.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
二級機關也有111年度有哪幾個機關進行實地訪視111年度的我們那時候是剛好遇到COVID所以我們那時候是用書面的所以沒有進所以111年度二級機關沒有進行實地訪視我們都做書審對做書面審查所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3605.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3618.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
市長講的讓我以為我的資料錯了我記得應該是沒有吧111年度對不起剛好是COVID所以二級也沒有三級四級也沒有全部都輸審那這一次有沒有二級機關有沒有要進行實地訪視 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3624.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3645.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這一次113年度這一次實際訪試的就是剛才委員執行的就是三級機關就移民署、領務局、臺北地檢署、華國部矯正署、臺北建議、華國部矯正署、桃園建議跟海委會的海保署這六個機關所以你們二級機關這一次已經沒有COVID了但你們二級機關你們這次沒有計畫要進行實地訪試嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3653.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3653.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
為什麼?為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3665.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3693.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
主要的考量是二級機關因為是兩年一次的都是兩年一次兩年一次的一個言語評鑑都是兩年一次依法都是兩年一次嗎?對,兩年一次所以那不是理由啊為什麼今年度不進行二級機關的實地訪查呢?事實上整個實地訪查坦白講需要比較多的資源投入那我們就是隨便就柿子挑軟的吃也不是挑最需要協助的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3695.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3706.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個有關吼我們事實上你們自己有有這個按照中央政府機關辦理原額評鑑作業你們有一個注意事項第5點你們有規有自己有有規定了吼這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3708.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3731.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有關配合行政院組織調整、重大政策等職務執掌人員．調移較複雜者應辦理實地訪視有好幾個總共10種他一樣應該辦理實地訪視那這次113年我看目前就有幾個機關符合你們這些條件二級機關就有幾個符合你們這些條件但是你們今天還是不進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3732.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3751.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不進行這個這個實例的訪視這部分是我今天在跟要要來跟人事長來討論的包括我們這個這個我們交通部事實上做了許許多的這個這個組織的調整這些調整應該是符合我們剛剛所講的這個遠和平健辦法注意事項裡面的要件 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3752.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3781.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
包括數位發展部啦齁這些我認為都你們都是不是能夠評估齁就是說在二級機關的部分齁這些符合你們自己的注意要點的裡面去做一些實地的的調查好不好實地的仿視我我這裡跟委員報告為什麼這些主改的機關我們沒有去實地沒有安排實地仿視的主要原因就是因為他上一年主改他現在剛好在整個業務運作operation loading會比較重 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3782.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3797.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那不過剛才委員提示的也非常好那我們內部會再評估再增加再評估再評估啦我們會增加兩三個這個注意事項是你們自己訂定的啦我這10條這個10個項目齁我在一個一個念說配合業務需要於原額總量範圍內 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3799.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3823.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
條整各類人員需求這個你新調整的就是符合你這個第5項的這一條規定嗎?你們就應該要做就不是讓他們上去填一填上網去填一填表格這個就就就就就尊審應該不是這樣子吧?是我我想非常謝謝委員的一個提醒我們今年會增加會從那個主改的幾個部會這幾個部會裡面我們挑幾個二級機關來做實地訪查對那包括這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3829.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3845.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個齁我們這個目前成立的這個各支會籌備處齁各個籌備處是算三級機關嘛對不對目前規劃的方向是朝獨立三級機關的方向來的籌備處各支會本身籌備處是三級機關各支會如果未來成立了他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3851.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3878.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
現在行政院內部還在政策討論因為會有兩種聲音一個是獨立二級一個獨立三級的部分還沒有確定就對了還沒有確定還沒有確定齁那這個這個有關這個個人資料保護這些也算是這個新的重大政策所以他有相關的這些新機關他的遠和編制我想也應該要要在在這個你們這個遠和需求編制裡面應該要考量好不好有有好謝謝委員那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3880.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3881.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
最後吼有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3883.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3884.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
總共緣合幾名? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3913.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3932.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
今年因為提需求的機關只有6個,包含移民署1位、公務署2位、財稅資料中心1位。總共6位。總共6位。是。我們最後我們整個國家我們這樣子盤點出來,我們國家一年只需要6個資通安全的人才。新增這個類別我們只招考6個人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3938.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3955.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我跟委員報告一下過去我們在補治安的人力的部分因為還沒有治安內科所以都是用資訊人力在補那今年 是啊就是因為需要你們去年8月就是因為說需要所以今年才增加這個內科嘛不是嗎 是是結果增加這個內科之後增加6個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3957.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3982.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個基本上是由用人機關他提出的全國出來就是故宮博物院需要一個新竹縣政府需要一個內政部移民署需要一個最後提出說最需要的數位發展部提出的緣額是一個一個是為了數位發展部他一個所以你們辦了新的內科招考是這樣嗎這是由西用機關他提言我們報請考選部我跟你講不是啦齁最後我最後做結論啦齁你們齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3985.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4006.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
這個資安這個部分在大家共事都是有人才需求啦各個機關都有人才需求對現在資通安全當然是最重要了但是人才需求之後你們就有人才需求所以我就擴大招稿擴大的結果為什麼6個因為你們這個緣額框架嘛你們都被這個緣額所框架住了大家我需要資通人才但是我的總緣額只有這樣子我沒有要開缺出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4010.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4020.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個部分我希望能夠檢討,現在你們最後會用約聘顧的方式來解決啦,但約聘顧還有約聘顧的問題好不好,我改天再跟你,再跟這個人事總長討論好,謝謝委員,謝謝好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝任市長接下來有請陳委員、俊宇諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4050.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4075.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好,謝謝主席那主席可以請我們人事長有請所有人事長委員早安好,人事長還有我們所有今天列席的各位首長我們今天與會的所有委員大家早首先我想請教我們人事長就最近我們公務人員這個出走潮的問題出走潮問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4076.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4098.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因為過去的民眾一般普遍都認為說這個公務人員是一個鐵飯碗那工作非常的穩定而且考試能夠考得上這個成本也花費非常的多非常的不容易那所以會非常珍惜這個工作的機會所以在最近有許多公務人員離開的這個新聞我們從這個數據上可以去看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4102.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4124.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
此指的人數從109年到111年每年都有成長10%以上其中此指的原因有高達88%都寫著說是因為個人因素但是我們知道個人因素就像這個生涯規劃一樣是沒有辦法掌握到此指的真正原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4125.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4146.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
然而我們面對不斷辭職的這些同仁我想請教就是說人事機關是不是有需要確實去掌握這個主要的原因才能夠對症下藥所以我請教我們人事長有沒有辦法掌握到我們這些公務人員他們真正辭職的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4148.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4167.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
謝謝委員我想辭職的原因主要因為會有所謂的辭職跟離職兩個定義那現在委員指教的就是辭職事實上平均的辭職率大概0.75%大概我們公共人力的0.75%這0.75%裡面大概接近45%是因為有 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4174.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4190.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
百分之45是屬於他本來是屬於普考的他考上高考所以他會辭職他會去就那個高考因為整個大一個畫面的條件會不一樣這個主要是第一個區塊在這裡第二個也有也有些公務通人他會 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4191.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4192.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
其中8案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4218.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4218.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好,謝謝人事長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4237.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4260.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
如果說像陳儒剛剛人事長講的我們這些同仁他可能是因為有比較好的工作或是因為在一樣是公務體系裡面他想要去轉換另外一個職場那當然那個都無所謂可是看起來有一些並非是這個像剛剛人事長講的這麼樂觀可能那個數據就是可能是後面講的這些數據的這些同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4262.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4276.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他可能是因為在工作上是不是有什麼原因導致他願意放棄這麼好的工作都甘願要離開所以我希望說我們應該是要對人事總處應該是要對這個部分要去加強了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4277.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4292.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
好這個部分我也坦白承認在某些機關他因為那個管理的風格會不一樣所以同仁在那裡工作接著他壓力會特別大所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4292.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4319.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
過去這兩年來我們花很多時間去宣導嚴禁職場霸凌因為有些同仁他事實上是默默在做可是每一個機關所長的管理風格也不大一樣所以我們也特別透過我們人事體系去宣導職場霸凌就是這個情況必須要去禁止因為我自己也聽過幾個case是屬於職場霸凌所以員工他承受不了所以他就選擇辭職 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4320.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4342.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
啊這個就是在委員裡面的就管理因素的部分那當然代議福利的部分也是會有因為他他每一個人的本來到公務機關是希望請尋求一個比較安定的嘛可是當他家裡的財務需求改變的時候有時候他會選擇到民間或許他的報酬會比較高一點好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4348.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4366.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我還是就是請我們人事總署這邊因為我們要把好的人才留住一定要對症下藥你要去找到問題所在才有辦法去解決不然你更好的人才撈不住你說政府有外交我看都憂憨所以我請我們人事總署這邊對這個問題要持續去關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4371.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4398.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
對於在這個有一些是不是可能我們這些同仁是因為所謂的不適任或是因為這個烤雞被打丁等或是被記兩隻大過之後有這種被動離開的情況這個部分我還是請人事總處對於這個部分也要去深入去了解避免這種好像也是職場的另外一種霸凌的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4401.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4427.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我這裡跟委員報告一下啦這一種因為烤雞丁等或者兩大過離開的每一年大概就是大概最多大概5位左右那這一些事實上經過每一個機關的內部的烤雞委員會他們很嚴格的去review因為這牽涉到當事人的潛意太大所以他們機關在執行這件事情的時候也非常慎重 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4428.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4456.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
同時我們也在保訊會有提供了一個他可以救濟的一個途徑所以這一方面我想一方面我會答應委員我們特別去了解這一些兩大過的或者丁等的這一些事由我們會去做一些進一步的一個分析我覺得這些資訊也是非常有意義的然後我們也去在人事的先導裡面去加強個人權益保障的先導 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4457.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4486.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好,這部分請我們人事總處持續關心那接下來我想請教就是我們針對這個彈性工作的部分在我們目前我們我想請教就是說目前我們機關對於辦理這個彈性工作的這個時間方面是否符合我們公務人員的需求需不需要再擴大那如果要再擴大我們機關辦理的配套措施是否完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4488.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4505.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我這裡跟委員報告一下因為我們為了要照顧這個養育家裡有未足三足歲的這個都可以請義嬰假留子停薪去照顧那這個是屬於一個長期間的他可以請一天一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4506.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4533.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那小孩子3歲以前他可以分次可以請這個對當事人來講他的一個按照他的需求他可以很彈性那常態型的常態型的我們所了解的各個機關他的彈性上班每一天上班的時間他有些是彈性半個小時以下有些半小時到一小時也有一些一小時到兩小時到一小時到一小時半還有一小時半到兩小時那有少數機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4534.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4556.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
他是彈性可以超過兩個小時就是每一個機關他因地制宜讓他自己去調他的那種彈性上班的一個的一個需求好因為看起來我們目前好像有九成以上的這個公務機關都有在實施那我還是希望說對於彈性放假時的部分我們能夠確確的給予我們工人員比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4556.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4573.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4573.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4593.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
特別去問在離島某些地區他們就是在半個小時以內所以我我一直我就是我會提出來啊你沒辦法彈性1點鐘啊2點鐘啊他們都有特殊的考慮啦因為那是內部管理事項所以基本上我們還是會尊重這些每一個機關他的一些考量好 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4594.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4621.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那另外我想請教我們人事長就是針對我們這個居家辦公的部分居家辦公因為我們因應之前COVID-19的那一段期間那因為這個疫情非常嚴峻那導致我們許多不管是機關或是這個私人的公司都一樣有啟動這個居家辦公那目前我們對於居家辦公的部分我們有沒有進一步的這個安排的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4621.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4639.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我這裡跟委員報告一下我們現在有提出一個示範計畫一直到明年年底就是based on之前COVID-19的這個我們在持續在明年年底這段期間可以允許居家上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4640.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4667.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
服務和居家上班的這個要件的準和錢還是在各個機關所長那基本上我們有做一件事情就是鼓勵家庭就是你家庭有人需要照顧可能連長的父母親或者家裡有一些需要就身體情況的反而就是他可以提出來經過機關所長同意的話他可以居家上班那至於居家上班一次是以一個月或兩個月或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4669.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4692.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
兩個禮拜再加兩個禮拜再這個是尊重每一個機關的規劃我們很care這件事情因為我覺得完成做好一件事情不見得一定要到辦公室可是有幾個情況例外就是說他如果他擔任的是第一線服務的就比較沒有辦法如果他擔任的工作是比較機敏性的他當然也比較沒有辦法把一些工作帶回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4693.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4704.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
當然會有一些他的工作的場域的問題會有一些差異性再請教一個那個人事長一個問題就是居家辦公的部分會不會影響到他的年終考期 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4706.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4726.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我希望說對於居家辦公的部分我們也可以有一套比較完整的一個規劃讓有需要的在我們相關部會他可能在他的工作性質上不影響的情況之下可以讓他來申請這種居家辦公的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4726.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4755.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
其實我要再補充一下因為其實過去這幾年來我們有些公務同仁他可能會有一些Cancer的部分有做化療他比較不方便來上班像這一些我了解的幾個部位都有允許他們在家裡上班尤其他們又剛好去擔任一些研究型的工作這個部分我想很多機關首長都有做這樣的一個統一讓他們在機家上班的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4756.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4770.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好以上謝謝人事長好謝謝陳委員謝謝蘇人事長接下來有請林委員思明質詢謝謝主席主席我們請這個人事長有請蘇人事長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4781.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4792.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員長首先跟你請教的是人事服務的核心是什麼?您認為什麼業務是最需要數位服務的? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4794.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4794.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那你認為這個現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4815.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4830.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
是什麼業務是最需要數位服務的?我說真的,因為我本身念資訊的,每一個行業都需要數位。包山包海都需要啦。都要啦。都要啦。都要啦。我看的業務報告,這個報告也寫了非常多的項目啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4832.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4859.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那我想我從行政院人事總處的公開資料上面看到就是人事總處在民國110年開始就有推動我們數位轉型相關的施政計畫從我們猜情數位化到資訊輔助人力資源管理的決策以及資訊化的歷程我們看來我們政府人力資源管理的數位化似乎已經趨於成熟了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4860.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4879.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
吳保,成熟了沒有?我覺得到某一個階段還有在努力的空間比如像最近這兩年人工智慧的部分我們也期待未來能夠花多一點的這一些嘗試把人工智慧導入我們公務機關很好,我覺得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4880.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4904.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那我想這個我想也請你從兩個面向來說明一下就是說因為我們人事服務數位化之後我們取代人力作業系統的這個部分以及後來我們用以及我們用大數據的統計分析作為我們決策支援這部分是否有所提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4905.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4916.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我先從我們整個人力作業系統的數位化有沒有造成我們人力的可以這個減少或者人力可以用我們數位化的服務來取代 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4917.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4917.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
議員議員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4947.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4949.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事服務數位轉型． |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4969.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4990.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以我才問你說那如果是這樣的你進行的已經將近成熟了嘛所以在這種情況之下我們整個這個就是依據大數據的統計分析作為你決策的依據精準度提升沒有啦,這樣問你有啦,在早上有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4991.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5001.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
所以這個是對整個數位化的服務人事服務是對整個我們整個政策的執行是有這個精進的有很大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5004.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5028.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是我剛才回到剛才人力資源的部分剛才你聽到說這個數位化之後並不會說代表說我們的人力的配置就要減少嘛你這樣說嘛但是我現在看到說這是你的那個對於我們凍結報告裡面的報告你說一句你的說法您提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5036.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5046.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
就是說誒我們的額誒我剛開一下你這在哪裡對等一會我找一下他凍結案講的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5060.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5077.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我大概講一下啦就是說人事長你的意思就是說你這個人力資源的配置你現在就因為透過那個我們的一個數位化的一個服務之後呢未來我們是否我們的人力會不足的問題呢你的考量的點 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5078.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5091.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
就說因為透過數位化服務我們一直希望你說人力不足你要去加強要去補足比如說我們的警消我們的警察我們的消防人員現在普遍的就是人力不足嘛依據你的凍結報告你是說這個部分各機關可要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5095.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5123.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
考量的就是說去精簡你的這個人力就是透過數位化的服務你似乎可以把人力去減少而不是一味的去指責說這個人力不足這個問題一直要去補足你可以透過這個數位化的服務人事服務讓我們的人力呢就是由這些這個可能數位化的這個經過數位化之後呢就可以取代這些人力的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5125.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5127.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
為什麼有些機關他能力沒有節省原因因為他是有新的業務進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5140.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5163.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你像我們人事單位自從3月8號姓名三碗通過以後我們要有這些同仁又要花比較多的時間去做事實上我們是把既有的事情把入店的事情透過數位化節省他們的作業時間然後剩下的這個時間我們去去處理新興的業務那當然有另外一個層次的問題就是說透過自動化機械設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5164.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5192.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們事實上是可以節省能力我想等一下移民署他們也會分享說他們透過他的E-GATEE-GATE本來就是說人工櫃台可能是24台可能在夜間尤其在半夜這期間因為齁說真的一般同仁比較不喜歡去輪大夜班所以像這樣的一個情況底下他夜間的排班的人數可以降低可以把他移到人力需求也不要那麼重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5194.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5213.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
市長其實我要跟你討論的也就是我們警消人員的人力的一個問題我想各個機關我們現在各縣市政府普遍我們的警力不足因為現在打詐的問題造成我們警察人力嚴重不足詐騙案件太多了那我們的消防人員也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5214.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5232.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我想我在上一次就有詢問過你說我們這一次的消防人員的一個這個招考那很就是招考不足啊造成我們各縣市的消防局現在普遍消防人員就不足警消不足這部分我們要如何來補足人力給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5234.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5260.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝委員剛好給我這個機會說明一下警政署的部分我們從108年109年我們總共給了他4,093位在這幾年裡面事實上他的這種人力需求投入了我們是給他非常大的空間那在消防的部分就如同上次我跟委員報告了當年因為客人入企的人數少 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5261.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5280.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那這個部分我們也有跟考選部來反映那現在除了錄取的錄取比例要維持到一個量體事實上消防署他這幾年有提了一個長程的一個計劃每年再增補600個消防人員因為一個消防人員從考試到 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5282.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5289.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
欸到可以直接到現場執勤最少要有兩年的時間因為他要去訓練中心接受長達兩年的一個訓練所以他從進來到實際服務會有時間差啦是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5297.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5315.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那人長我跟妳講就是說你在這個啊業務報的時候呢我想我關心消防員缺額的問題但是現在新竹縣消防局跟我反映一個問題就您現在本來說去年招考的人數你要這個配置多少給他那因為這個招考不足那這次你就 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5316.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5337.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
比如原本要40位的現在只能給他22位又少了11位那一直往後一個來這個往後一直一直無限期的拖延造成因為人我們比如說我們新竹的竹北竹北那個新興城市嘛那我們又新成立一個消防分局但竟然沒有人可以用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5339.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5363.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
竟然沒有人可以用那這部分我請教你一個問題可不可以從中央中央我們消防署我們有比如說比較不需要這些人力的來盤點然後來補充人力來先調配給我們地方來用我委員報告啦消防署也是做政策其實第一線在執行是地方政府啦但是我覺得要解決這個問題齁就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5366.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5392.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5392.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5396.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
警察的話如果說警察有能力不足從保一保四保五先調去支援之後再返還給我們中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5420.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5442.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5442.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5458.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
的訓練訓練場所有場域也在擴大那趕快把這個人力補助上來的藝術性的藥藥藥農訓量一定要增加嗎農第一個就是客流來人車馬龍心那種情歌啊所以可以縮短從 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5459.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5461.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
從考試、訓練然後到用的受短時程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5489.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5505.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
現在你有沒有研究未來用智慧化的人工用AI智慧機器人來取代我們的警察取代我們的警消我有報告我有想過但是沒有研究我可以說我有想過我有想過這個問題啦但是我沒有研究啦是啊齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5512.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5513.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
主席有請人事長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5537.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5549.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
委員長請教一下吳亦郎凍結是不是可以全國一致性的放假那陳建元院長昨天說在兩個禮拜宣布結果請問目前這個案子研議的情況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5552.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5575.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我跟委員報告因為這個案子的主責是在內政部那現在行政院我就是昨天院長也提了嘛大概兩個禮拜以內會announce今年的5月1號是我放假我想請教一下上次本席在委員會質詢人事長的時候有要求說軍公教條新能夠法制化對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5576.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5601.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那人事長你的回答是說朝年底完成法制化來努力嘛對不對就有期限了嘛對不對失誠了嘛那裡面法制化有一項很重要的議題就是說長久以來軍公教團體都希望軍公教員工待遇審議委員會能夠比照勞工基本工資審議委員會納入基層員工代表那我想請教一下那個人事長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5602.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5621.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我非常認同委員的建議啦。事實上這一次在法制化的過程中我納入基層的這些公教同仁代表我們也是並同言議。有納入並同言議。非常好。那為什麼我看到資料說之前人事總處對外表示反對審議委員納入基層員工代表呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5622.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5640.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這可能在表達的方式有一點我們會改進那請人事我們人事長都處一下那現在我也謝謝人事長已經是表達因為我個人看法很簡單啦就現在審議委員會都是機關首長跟12職等以上的主官嘛對不對主管嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5642.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5660.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
他有學者、專家以外啦對,我看到就是人事長、權序部、然後副處長、兼任副召集人、委員14到16人、私人專家、學者其他是各部會、地方政府檢任12職等以上嘛,對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5662.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5684.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
事實上剛才委員只叫了12職等以上事實上他是所謂的機關代表的概念對啊那我只是想說高層主管是人基層公務員就不是人的概念嗎這一句話我一定要澄清我跟你講你實際的結果就沒有把基層的那個公務員新生放進去嘛這很容易造成慣老闆現象你知道吧我 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5689.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5700.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
沒有關係,剛剛人事長你自己都知道這個方法不對嘛,不是嗎?所以你才剛剛主張要基層員工要放進去啊。不然如果你這個做法是對的,你為什麼剛剛又主張基層員工要放進去呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5702.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5721.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我這裡必須要跟委員說明一下原來的審議委員會他是一個代表性的那事實上為了去處理這個事情我們前兩年事實上在審議委員會之前沒有關係我跟你講歷史的東西就過去啦我還是肯定你願意改啦可以吧我肯定你總沒意見了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5724.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5753.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
接下來我們軍公教的團體教育團體也講出軍公教的待遇調整那麼跟最低工資都是國家政策一部分應該具有相同的公開透明跟民主的性質那現在同為受僱者基本工資審議委員會有納入來勞工代表那現在也應該要把我們基層員工的薪生放進去但是我想請教你一個下一個問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5754.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5768.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
之前的前人事總處的人事長施能傑他有研究一個數據分析年金改革實施之後我們公務員總退休率是呈現下降的趨勢對不對是那為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5771.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5798.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我看一下數字是2017年之前公務人員總退休率都大於2.5%2015年甚至高達3.26%但是政黨輪替2017年總退休率一直往下到2021年之前都沒有超過2個百分點平均退休率來看年改前2011年到2016年的總退休率是平均是2.84年改後總退休率降為1.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5800.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5815.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那麼這個部分它造成的一個現象是什麼為什麼會有這種現象我這裡我必須要跟委員提一下就是因為整個在掃紙化的過程裡面這不純粹是掃紙化因為它的議題也是蠻多元的只是說我們希望有一些有經驗的當然委員你care就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5825.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5827.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我知道你就講說這個我們現在高齡化社會工作也是高齡化社會一種生活型態對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5847.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5856.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
可是我跟你講有你想得這麼夢幻嗎?不是吧?原因是什麼?因為年金改革退休金大幅縮水啊,不是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5857.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5882.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以公務員要延後退休累積年資增加縫點才能夠提高退休金所以根本還是在於說我們今天的所謂的年金的退休金大幅縮水那另外這個你剛剛已經講了一個就是你會造成說今天我們這個公務機關也高齡化高齡化的原因第一個就是退休的狀況減少嘛對不對延後嘛沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5884.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5897.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有部分人會延後啦部分人就整個整體數字2.84下降1.82這整體數字不純粹是個人了啦已經是現象好不好已經是現象這還是講說這個我們講現在的公務機關的高齡結構的一個趨向另外剛剛你自己也主動講啦請問現在的我們的公務人員報考人數數十年減幅高達56%欸對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5912.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5940.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
將近減掉大幅下減所以因此造成我們今天優秀的人才也開始你要知道今天過去你如果說報告人數多嘛 對不對那現在你在人才增補的話你的空間比較大嘛但報告人數少你增補的空間就比較小嘛所以這個部分當然對公務機關我們的整個運作也產生影響可是我看上次這個我們的人事長你就把它說成是這個少子化的問題嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5944.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5952.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我利用這個機會澄清一下事實上報告人數降低並不是在年金改革之後就降低我講的是兩個議題啦慢慢的就來阿因為現在來報告的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5958.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5976.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
一個是報考率 一個是錄取率 事實上我們現在每一年都維持到之前這個通能我之前拿到數字也給你看過了嘛 對不對 比照之前的話大概幾十年前的數字 現在報考人數確實大幅下降了沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5977.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5995.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
對阿事實阿所以因此不純粹是你剛剛講的少子化因為我們少子化有沒有少子到這種程度阿少子化浪潮還沒淹到這種程度阿不是嗎所以就少子化以外的因素嘛那我接下來跟各位講就是說當然跟公務員待遇有關係阿不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5996.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6014.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
公務員的待遇也好退休金也好在下降的過程當中當然對我覺得總是我們人事長公家機關的同仁我剛剛看也會笑欸我要講也會笑什麼我幫大家講話今天如果待遇減少你當然人願意留下來的那個動力就會下降嘛這點這點應該沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6017.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6042.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這代議一定會影響每一個公務通人留下來的意願這是正相關年金改革從2018年7月上路退休公教人員資領月退金18%的優存兩年半就把它歸零嘛 對不對然後所得地貸率10年過渡期嘛那改革首年降到本縫的兩倍的75%再連續10年每年降1.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6043.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6061.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
二、九年要降到60%嘛,對不對?是。好。那我想請教您齁,就是說現在其實已經有委員修正提案公務員退休這個資遣的撫恤法齁以及公教職員退休資權撫恤條例我想請問一下人事長你的看法是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6063.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6067.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為物價變動跟通貨膨脹那今年軍公教的月退金調高百分之四 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6087.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6115.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那如果不贊成停止遞減年金所得地貸率對於公教團體的另外訴求比照勞工保險條例的規定當消費者物價指數累計成長率達50%就要按照這個成長率來調整變成是一個法制化的做法您同意嗎這個我覺得要由主管機關就是前續部跟國防部跟教育部這些主管機關你人事總處你總能幫軍公教代言一下新生吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6117.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6133.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我會把委員的意見轉達你放心這些單位在我們本委員會我也會質詢啦但我是問你人事總處人事長你的意見啦我是支持比照啦因為現在我們會把委員的意見轉達給這些機關啦最後我想針對我們這個預算凍結的一些問題我想請教一下因為我看到幾個問題比方說舉個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6142.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6170.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我看到預算凍結比如說我們第一個案子它裡面有一個緣由就是說這個人事行政總處要求各主管機關建立主動抽查所屬機關的機制列入人事業務績效考核以立政府機關落實公實新制對不對這報告第三頁可是我整個沒有看到你的抽查的情形如何跟抽查的績效 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6171.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6191.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我查情形如何我想我們會用我們提供給委員這個凍結你的時候就是要你做這件事情結果你現在要解凍你跟我講你還要再補報告那是不是今天就不用審解凍案啦其實我有一個報告啦今年的績效考我們就已經列入了啦我跟你講你上面的報告沒寫啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6193.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6215.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這才是問題當他已經白紙黑字就指你的抽查制度你抽查績效你也不寫進去很多啦我剛剛因為時間到我剛剛主席就站起來了當我們審凍結報告的時候我可能也要講一下很多凍結你的原因你在報告裡也不去應答那請問你那解凍結什麼啊也就是說原來凍結你的理由狀態全部存在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6216.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6216.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
眾嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6240.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6256.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
主席、在堂的委員先進、列席的政府機關市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者、女士先生,有請書人市長,還有我們移民署的陳副署長、小鎮署的周副署長,以及台鐵公司的馮總經理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6269.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6279.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
人事長好、署長、副署長、總經理早。來,請問一下人事長,人總是管理各機關的人事人員還是管理政府的人力資源?都有啦,都有。那你覺得哪一個比較能夠發揮人總在這個政府部門當中,身為二級機關的一個價值? |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6292.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6320.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我覺得那個是在你為什麼認為你是應該企業的人資長對啊就是本來就企業的人資長要做什麼事情就是人力支援策略規劃嘛沒有錯但是今天很遺憾的給你們這個題目除了預算解凍報告之外本來上次主席在我本席在說政府業務用AI提升人力效能有沒有可能你說有可能對不對有可能而且你是資訊專業是不是結果你們今天的報告當中啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6321.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6326.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
完全沒有提到怎麼樣人總來協助各機關利用資訊科技來提升他們的人力效能你只有在說你們人總的人事人員你怎麼樣協助人總在各機關的人事人員提升他們服務各機關公務員的效能你有沒有覺得有點偏差啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6341.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6351.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我覺得我利用這個機會跟委員說明一下你是要談人種的數位轉型還是你也希望能夠透過這個數位協助政府各機關提升他們的人力資源效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6353.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6356.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事服務數位轉型．列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6379.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6383.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
很好,過去是這樣,我希望你未來繼續,我現在要問一個來我請教一下人事長,你看得到這個照片嗎?你覺得這個是誰?是我是不是?長頭髮,像女生這是現在的數位科技啦我看到副署長在笑了你覺得像我這樣的,如果我打扮成這樣能不能通得過檢查?在機場副署長你覺得可以通過來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6409.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6426.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這個如果看委員當時拿的是什麼護照很好本人的護照如果用人工驗證用身為未照過的護照有沒有可能騙過你們的移民署的官員有可能那如果是用人自動通關呢自動通關他的辨識力比人力還強更精準是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6427.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6437.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
人事長聽到沒有好我們來看一下來我先來問一下我現在講移民署移民署從96年到現在112年成立的元額不到2400人到現在已經到了快2900人了足足成長了538人超過總元額的兩成人事長在你的任中任內你有沒有看過哪個機關人總這麼大方行政院給他這麼多人力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6453.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6477.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
有沒有?有沒有其他人?你講一下你心肝大細心喔你對他們移民署特別好喔?啊...啊...就...他們一直...一直拖一直拖你就從後移動後移不過我這裡要跟委員...呃...說明...你有沒有對移民署特別好?我跟他關係很差啊?很差?我跟他關係很差啊?為什麼給他這麼多冤枉?我跟他關係很差他要人基本上我都不大願意給可是今天還是給啦他們今年喔2月5號再報30個你們全部都給他給 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6483.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6509.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
事實上我們給他的主要原因是希望他加快EGATE建構很好來副組長來我看一下給了你這麼多人副組長請教一下下一頁我們入村的人數在疫情前有高達快6000萬人次到了疫情盪下來不到800甚至掉到100慢慢回升到450去年大概回升到3600副組長你覺得今年2024年有沒有可能超過超過可能4000或5000 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6511.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6515.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
應該會應該會嘛 對不對但你們20195000多人的時候你們國進大隊資源移植率都超過8%20207%疫情期間掉下來4%欸疫情後呢又升上去了快8%去年12%啊副署長奇怪了勒給你們那麼多人為什麼你流動率這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6532.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6553.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
報告委員其實這個是我們人力結構的問題人力結構什麼問題因為在疫情期間我們講白了就是在2019年疫情開始以後我們所有旅客量從5000多萬降到709萬當時因為我們在國境它的流動率是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6554.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6565.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
本來流動率很高啊8%啊現在當下來啦當下來因為後來那時候旅客少所以嘛齁不只是你們正職人員連你們約聘顧的人員也是一樣剛剛那個表呢告訴我約聘顧的人員的離職率也是8%現在也都快到12%了基本上來說因為我們航班是24小時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6572.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6592.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
對不對?你們的儘管的人員要不要輪班?要嘛。我遇到很多次我半夜從東南亞回來他們在那邊看疫情期間入職的因為疫情後突然量增加了疫情今天來很輕鬆的現在受不了了跑掉了疫情前勉強撐住的疫情後撐不住了跑掉了是不是這樣?是人事長那你覺得他們這樣子有什麼辦法改善? |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6596.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6597.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
很好,來,人長 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6617.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6640.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那副組長,市長聽到了齁?人事長他雖然跟你關係不是很和睦,你們的人他也不給,但是因為你們有需要,還是有了。但是這些人呢,你們留不住。如果把這些人用自動通關來取代,你覺得會不會人員比較穩定?讓人員去做那些機器比較辛苦的事情,讓機器做。人是要休息的,不用休息的事情給機器做,你同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6641.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6668.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
是那你們有沒有要加強這個EGATE?跟委員報告其實我們移民署在做自動通關系統的建設早在民國99年那你們未來要不要繼續加強?我們現在都有規劃實施好那我現在請你跟人長配合當你們未來自動通關越來越多人使用的時候你們的人力就空出來了是這些人好好的用在其他需要人力智慧的地方好不好?是好謝謝副署長來謝謝下一個來我們現在請教我們的周署長齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6670.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6678.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
你們目前有智慧監獄推動3所,缺額逐年增加。你們在108年有24個名額根本照不到。到了112年變成128個。剛剛講移民署是人照得進來但留不住。你們是連人來都不來啊。署長怎麼辦?缺這麼多人怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6690.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6701.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
呃,跟委員報告,我們沿著上有統計過我們的離職率大概百分之五左右我不是問你離職率啊,你們根本沒有料去啊離職率根本找不到人啊人事長怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6704.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6721.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
其實齁你給他名字他找不到人啊沒有人要找那個監獄管理員啊我事實上我也蠻急迫的6、7年前我就跟法務部去監獄去大量去推智慧型監獄我舉一個例子啦就是他們受薪人有時候要去借外就醫嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6722.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6743.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
借外就醫基本上一定要有兩個接觸人力一出去就是報令所以我那時候就跟他們建議就是說盡量去找一兩家大型的院所去處理所謂的遠距醫療遠距醫療不管是你在立法 減少人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6744.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6752.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
借戶就醫的這個手套。因為借戶就醫兩個人出去了,剩下留在監獄的人辛苦了,對不對?署長,你覺得人事長的建議有沒有道理? |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6758.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6758.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
來 總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6787.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6790.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
之前我聽到一個消息說國營事業台鐵有312個桶邊總經理你們台鐵這家公司怎麼有312個桶邊?什麼原因?報告委員因為我們派出單位分支單位沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6802.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6827.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
你們派專案很多高鐵就相對少了因為高鐵的站比較少我去查了一下國營事業台堂有176個桶邊燕酒公司有71個桶邊因為燕酒公司的配銷手比較少可是相對的桶邊越多財塊的人力需有越多可是你們只用了100個人相較於台堂他桶邊比你少用的人比你多燕酒公司才71個用無數人看起來你們的財塊的效能很高喔你們是不是國營事業當中你們財塊人員效率最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6830.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6831.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
總經理,你覺得ATM跟銀行行員哪一個可以全天候上班? |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6854.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6855.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
人事長有否常常搭台鐵? |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6873.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6892.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我常常搭台鐵,你有沒有常常搭?我曾經我南北跑,我常常搭8點半的高鐵回到新左營11點05分我要轉什麼?我要轉台鐵回屏東我去的時候每次怎樣?我都習慣去自動購票機可是每次我要轉的時候晚上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6893.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6893.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6913.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6925.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
應該 他們是還要做結帳的工作是 所以說嘛 櫃檯 他們你們的櫃檯的人說我們還要輪班到半夜 因為還有人買票可是我們的自動貨票機 因為財快部門9點要結帳所以就通通下班了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6930.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6943.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你們有沒有搞錯啊?你們的財寬人員少,因為他不想做太多事。所以你們的自動貨票機啊,9點就離線了。留下最辛苦的工作人員,在那邊人工售票。總經理,我先問人事長。如果你作為一個公司,總經理,你覺得這合理嗎?我是問人事長啊。我一定喔,可以自動化,我一定會自動化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6957.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6964.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
來,總經理,你告訴人事長,你們有多少自動購票機?我們現在有432台。你們有多少的票口人員?說不出來。超過好幾千嘛。在台鐵啊,購票機比人工人員還輕鬆啊。9點就下班了。員工很辛苦,你知不知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6979.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7003.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那你們要不要叫你們財快人員以後留兩個財快人員幫自動購票機結帳24小時營運可以嗎?報告委員我們現在已經在檢討我們的這個檢討多久了?我反映過4年了我這8年來我每次台北通勤每次超過9點我在台鐵的窗口我要去人工購票如果前面排了好多人咧?還好像有TPAS啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7004.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7014.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我以前可以用自動購票機買啊超過9點自動購票機下班8台通通下班窗口只留一個窗口後面排十幾個人我要是趕台鐵趕不上怎麼辦總經理要不要檢討一下要需要人事長結果結論請人事總處研析各政府機關的形態跟人力配置的效能請借重資訊科技減少各政府機關的人力的低效運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7030.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7052.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
可以嗎?可不可以提個書面報告給本席,給委員會?多久?好,可以,謝謝。好,謝謝鍾嘉斌委員。鍾委員剛所提到的部分,就是他個人碰到的經驗,也就是一般民眾也會碰到的。這個確實我們要好好去做一個改善一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7058.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7078.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
好接下來有請莊瑞雄委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席有請我們蘇俊隆人事長有請人事長還有請我們公務人力發展學院我們的陳明忠陳院長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7081.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7102.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
市長還有我們陳院長我想大家有去注意到這幾年來台灣確實是面臨到越來越少人願意報考公務人員這樣的一個狀況從考選部的統計資料其實也可以發現看這個資料就是說從民國98年高考報考人數6萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7104.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7131.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
還有6萬。101年報考人數巔峰到7萬多但是從此以後人數一直下降到112年剩下3萬多而已3萬多報考我這補考給你們看那普考也同樣一樣下滑的一個趨勢那你還碰到有雙報考的事情那101年報考人數9萬你如果有雙報考的人就更多之後年年下降到了去年3萬多人報考 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7132.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7136.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那你到初等考試的情況那更慘從民國98年9萬多到去年剩下1萬多人14當內的減70高趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7141.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7168.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
人事長還有那個陳院長那你從考試院送到本院的報告裡面也可以發現2022年公務人員離職率一般三千個比2021年的一萬九百九十人增加了22.8%其中退休人數跟辭職人數都有明顯的一個漲幅其實人事長還有陳院長公務人員越來越少人報考這不是只有台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7170.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7183.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你看看日本也一樣日本今年春天報告人數1.4萬這個也是日本史上第二低過去10年公務人報告他也減到30%所以日本的人事院 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7184.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7202.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
他們計劃向政府提議,調整公務人員勤務的時候,除了彈性工資以外,無論什麼原因都可以選擇週休3天。日本現在也沒辦法,所以這件日本人現在這樣在做。日本選擇這麼做,他就是希望說,透過彈性的一個工資改善日本工資工時過長過老這樣的一個問題,那我們台灣公務人員會面臨到什麼樣的問題呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7208.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7228.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
在十幾年前我看那個PPT那個論壇上公務人員考試版都是高度的熱門的一個版大家都會去互通有無但是只要提到現在說講公務人員大家會說不要去啦都會用勸退啦那綜合了對於考這個考公務人員的缺點以外最多人認為根本的原因是什麼事你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7230.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7259.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
報考成本過高,選稅不夠高、福利不夠多當然有一部分你說年金改革的餘率已經多少多少一定有嘛那從報考成本來看的話我請兩位來仔細的看一下就是說多數的公務人員其實喔差不多都有保釋的經驗啦市場上也有各式各樣的補習班的任君挑選啦市面上的補習班看來不管是你說面授啊還是去寒授啊那最多的行政職都要試班啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7259.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7276.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
高一點的話甚至要到8萬啦 這個還只是補習的一個金額喔如果說是一個全職的考生來看的話還有生活費的問題啊 還要多管啊所以同樣啊 你去根據我們整個考選部的一個統計啊以高考為例啊 平均要考幾次 人事長你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7278.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7279.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事服務數位轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7302.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7321.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
但如果報名的人越來越少最後下一個世代是不是要面臨國家招不到優秀工人的一個危機啊所以這個問題我請教人事長你基本上你的看法是怎麼樣事實上因應少子化的這個部分事實上我們現在在做的就是說我沒想到這是少子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7323.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7344.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我覺得那些都很多的複合式因素在裡面啊。就像明太郎委員你說的那個台股的問題還是他要進到這個場域來投資成本的問題,這些都是原因。所以我們現在努力的就是如何去把公務人員的待遇拉上來,因為台股是很小的嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7344.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7346.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
民進黨執政以後我們對臨近改革這樣的一個推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7373.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7395.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
其實跟公務人員的一個保障你說他沒關係公務人員他也聽不下去但短期到認為那是兩件事我們一直在講說世世代代領得到長長久久可以領到老那個就是其實各個政黨在執政的時候都認為年金不改革他真的是會破產但是公務人員的一個保障我這個另外一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7395.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7413 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
公務人員本來他的福利他的身份你本來就是該去保障他那同樣對年金改革的一個履歷我本席也看到國民黨委員提案說要停止地檢所得替代率來停止調整公教的年金本席倒是認為說這個是不顧風險的一個大走回頭路 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7414.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7431.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
改革本來就是不太容易的大家去看看希臘的一個國債那麼多國家的一個支持也提出了相關的年金的一個改革以現在來看的話以各國的一個退休年金的勤領年齡所跟所得替代率來看你台灣到2029年開始所得替代率我們還是62.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7433.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7452.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就世界潮流來看,台灣是從65歲、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、低高、 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7455.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7470.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我從數據資料來看,報考人數降低大概102年就開始往下降,不是107年年改。那是這個數字,那是一個數字的數字。第二就是我要委員報告,因為現在就到考率大概六七成, |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7471.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7493.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
入企率都維持10%嘛。這一些是一個長期的,所以我們現在公務人力的需求的這一種,你有去倒考慮,剛好每一年大概四、五千人,需求大概四千嘛,客流大概五千,大概可以cover我們的政府整體的人力需求,目前的情況是這樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7494.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7508.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我要請教我們公務人、人力發展學院的陳院長就是說,你們感冒都沒人給你們歡迎,談到公務人員的福利保障,我就舉我們的國民旅遊卡來講啦。你像比如說我們常常看到、聽到的抱怨就是說,國旅卡實在是不好用啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7509.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7537.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
你去PTV版我相信很多人也是罵聲連連那國民旅遊卡本質上大家也很清楚是一個不休假的一個加班費那你怎麼樣去運用公務人員原本本來就是按照日薪去請領不休假的加班費特休沒有休完那隔天政府又說日薪成癮未休完了幾天來給錢我們從2000年以後政府強制用一萬六定額補助取代加班費你藉此來鼓勵休假政策要去引導其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7539.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7561.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
也不能說不對但問題就是說你要做到會公平2017年你開始硬性規定8000元你要消費在觀光旅遊業國內的團旅的部分這也可以只是說額度沒有用完你不能累積千五天收回來沒什麼通陳院長你都沒聽到有人這樣說嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7564.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7564.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
政經國內觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7588.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7593.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
而是說刺激內需鼓勵公務人員休假,這個都值得獎勵啦!但是你不要創那個相當標準的啦!我是覺得,你譬如說為什麼提振國內觀光、刺激內需消費,是因為公務人員本地的他的加班費,你來叫人來補助其他的產業,不然檢視庫也好事啦!但是這個怪怪的,你知道嗎?我認為這個就很奇怪!尤其你這個8000加8000這個部分齁! |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7619.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7647.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我來問您啦,您說這叫國民旅遊卡,我看這都叫共體時間卡。這沒道理啊,我這覺得沒道理啊。好,那一般你們就只能8000、8000對不對?那我要問啦,那為什麼法官的就全部數在一樣?你說法官是因為他案子很多,所以要鼓勵他趕快結案,我們就不要管他,讓他呢,我們不要強制他去消費,讓他把他贏得錢而已沒關係,其他的公務人員呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7648.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7658.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
就不對,因為事件的本質,就是你不修正。政府用一天保護人的,你強制司法官以外的,其他你就要設定這種實用的規則。這樣感動人事長?院長,這樣感動? |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7663.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7665.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
陳副組長我最後要請教你難道你們的弟兄沒有很辛苦嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7686.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7695.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
幹部警察局幹部很辛苦警察同仁幹部很辛苦那為什麼同樣都是公務人員啊這一筆錢你又給他不一樣的使用方式我們怎麼對外說理 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7703.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7722.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們要尊重,其實一般來說我們現在的同仁也會利用這個國民旅遊卡,帶著家人去旅遊,這個事實上也都是這樣在消費我告訴你,我是在替你講話,這條叫做本地公務人員特殊的啦,那本地就公務人員的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7723.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7725.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事服務數位轉型． |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7748.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7764.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我再強調一次喔!年金改革是一件事喔!那個真的是要世世代代喔!但是為公務人員保障他的福利那又另外一件事喔!好不好?相同的東西我們不要做那種沒有正當合理的理由不要做這種差別待遇啦!好不好?好!謝謝!謝謝委員!好!謝謝專委員!謝謝人事長!謝謝院長和副署長! |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7772.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7796.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那麼在這裡呢先做程序的先告稍後在謝榮介、謝委員榮介詢答完畢後休息5分鐘現在接續請吳委員、施堯進行詢答請謝主席有請人事長那也請我們公務人力發展學院陳院長一起好人事長跟院長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7801.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7817.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
人事總處的夥伴大家辛苦大家早安那我想先問一下那個人事長我上一次質詢您的時候有拋出希望能夠在我們的公務人員裡頭新增一個價別就是心理價那你們回去有開始進行研議嗎進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7823.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7840.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因為現在公務人員請假規則全序部現在有正在研擬修正草案所以我們這個薪禮價的問題我們會並同那個請假規則通盤來做一個規劃我這裡跟委員報告啦基本上 我覺得委員講的那個很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7844.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7860.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
對那所以就我會持續來watch持續來Follow那希望你們可以跟程序部可以強化也表達我們人事總處認為我們要共同促進我們公務同仁的心理健康那一個新設價別就彰顯了我們一個國家政策重要的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7861.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7884.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那今天我要就教於您部部都是文化部人人都是文化人人事總處can do more那我們可以做什麼呢同樣一個主題我上週也對考試院也提出來了因為畢竟在國家的公務體系的人力規劃禁用考核待遇福利等等其實包括人事總處考試院都相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7887.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7891.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那我想問一下就是您本身有文化生活嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7893.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7918.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
您最近有去什麼藝文活動或藝文場館嗎?有,去幾個好,很好,讓你運用江雄美術館、台南南美館、南美二館還有赤嬌赤嬌還有二手書籍我都去逛了所以聽起來人事長您個人的文化生活會是視覺藝術有閒您剛剛提了高美館像我們江賢二老師的大展才在高美館創下紀錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7920.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7947.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
高美館、南美館、獨立書店等等您個人有文化生活非常好我們也希望我們公務同仁都能夠有文化生活當然我今天就教於您我先從文化生活來切入我非常開心您本身是有文化生活的那其實文化生活跟我剛剛說的心理健康有很大的關聯文化是最好的療癒那像思瑤我本人在立法院每天有很多政治的負能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7948.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7976.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我自己的文化生活是什麼我光3月啊我跟大家分享一下我到了歷史博物館歷史博物館是台灣就是遷台以後第一個成立的公立博物館今年已經快已經一甲子了所以是來到台灣一甲子第一次的全面修復然後再出發我去參加了他的大展而且是一個時尚跨界的走秀非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7977.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8002.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那也提醒大家可以去給我們的國家博物館多多支持石博館就是剛重新開幕推薦大家可以去這是我3月8號去的我3月11號我到台博館剛剛是石博館我又去台博館因為我在做很多建築藝術的紀錄片那天是一個首映會我也推薦大家可以到台博館走一走這是3月11號再來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8006.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8033.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
3月19號我回到我的選區北投現在大學有一個USR的計劃就是大學也要有社會責任那把大學生帶到台灣的社區現場以我參加的這個共主節就是我媒合了實踐大學建築系的學生進到北投的中興新村這是一個非常大規模在修復的眷村所以走進文化資產的現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8035.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8056.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
然後透過教育然後一起做一個共主節他有很多的多元的意義但這也告訴我們培育國家的文化人才文資人才每天都要做而我自己作為立法委員我一直在做北投共主節我催生了就是第三年好再來下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8058.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8087.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那就在上週五我到北美館台灣一個非常好的大展台灣建築1949到1983一個系統性的去回顧台灣建築的發展脈絡這是一個非常棒的展覽我也要推薦給大家我分享了一個光三月我就去了四檔的大展我是一個立法委員我現在也在繼續深造就讀文化類的博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8088.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8111.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我個人告訴自己我要有文化生活陶冶我的心靈我要有文化思維可以協助我導入政策幫助國家更有文化高視野的文化相關的政策能夠推進而且要跟國際接軌這是我個人我也是廣義的公務體系的一份子所以我要來分享的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8113.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8119.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我請請教人事長來下頁文化基本法來回到文化基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8120.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8146.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
二零一九年六月五號是我剛擔任立委非常有成就感的一個立法因為這是文化的基本大法文化基本法裡頭對於部部都是文化部做了一個非常清楚的入法各部會都要來做文化資產的保存活化傳承維護及宣揚各部會都要有寬裂文化預算要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8147.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8166.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
國內外人才的參與文化工作這是方方面面要做的所以文化政策要落實在各部會文化不再是outsider這是文化的憲法所以依據文化基本法我們成立了內閣的文化匯報下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8169.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8193.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
人事長您也是文化會報的參與者有16個部會當中文化會報人事總處最近的一次是陳靜元院長親自召集的會議是2023年10月11號您也去出席了那我可能請教人事總處參與了文化會報那您扮演的角色是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8195.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8216.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我覺得文化的東西很重要就是如何讓它生活化的問題我們希望我們的生活跟文化是結合在一起那在人事總處的一個立場我們事實上最近光總處內部我們就安排到很多的博物館去參觀尤其還有一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8218.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8234.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這幾年我們剛好在推行政法人是所以我們希望好多新的行政法人都是文化管所對那事實上文化管所他走行政法人他在用人在整個營運因為要更有彈性很多場域他要有專業的策展人嘛嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8235.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8259.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那你公務機關你如何去找策展人事實上是有困難所以我們要活化他可以讓整個文化的管所更加的活躍我非常的開心聽到我們人事長您還更深入的去談到對於行政法人很多是文化管所要為什麼文化管所要用行政法人的方式就是讓他的用人彈性可以引進民間的文化專業人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8260.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8282.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
一般的公務人員的培育體系相比較欠缺您抓到一個很重要的重點我非常的感謝今天就教於您就是人事總處之所以成為行政院文化彙報的key person之一就是要從前端的國家人才的培育要can do more第二個我們平常業務會進行很多的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8284.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8304.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們的相關訓練We can do more第三個就是我剛剛跟您分享的最起碼我們要能夠提供給大家在福利面創造一個文化生活的可能性所以它會落在三個面向文化人才的培育、文化思維的建立以及文化生活的創造人事總處真的can do more下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8308.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8310.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
您知道我們現在有內閣一個新的好政策深受年輕世代歡迎這也是吳思瑤催生的2022年我質詢了蘇貞昌院長我希望能夠催生文化禮經現在已經上路而且擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8325.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8353.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
16到22歲的年輕人可以有每年1200點的文化幣然後鼓勵年輕人去做藝文的消費而且可以振興台灣的藝文產業的發展其實啦年輕時代現在有文化幣這是一個新的境界我也催生活非常感動可以上路事實上我們公務體系早就有文化幣了就是我們每年3000的文康活動費 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8355.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8357.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
要不然我們中央各機關、學校、員工、文康活動實施要點在你頂的嘛對不對?人事總署管欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8362.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8389.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
文康活動費是重康樂輕益文我們兩部分就是益文活動可以去做益文欣賞競賽康樂活動就可以辦社團體能競賽慶生聯誼服務休閒等等每年3000這比剛剛那個文化幣啊1200塊一年而且只有16到22歲我們進入公路體系的夥伴每年就有3000可是都在康樂就空秀下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8391.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8396.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
各部會的文康活動是您這裡來訂定然後我不知道你們有沒有追蹤我就以人事總處自己的文康活動來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8401.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8422.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
近10年都是在辦康樂活動作為生日禮金慶生會年終獎金年終餐會年終禮品聯誼員工旅遊都很好但是我們這個康樂的項目人事總處的文康活動項目不要忘了是有藝文欣賞那一項啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8423.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8448.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
所以說我剛剛跟您分享了您自己有文化生活這可能是你的創意就你自己有這個文化調養要不然我們要給所有的公務同仁藝文類可不可以鼓勵更多我相信大家會支持讓大家就像文化幣年輕人拿到文化幣他會去買書他會去看表演藝術等等這個總可以做到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8450.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8469.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
不只人事總處先做也包括各部會一起來做可以嗎我們事實上很多藝文活動我們都是混搭在整個環境交引沒有混搭藝文活動就是被犧牲沒有混搭有啦有啦都在裡面都在裡面那可以做更多嗎沒問題我想這個沒有問題我後續再跟您討論主席我最後30秒來下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8477.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8496.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們需要更多的文化人才我很快速的快轉提醒您好下一頁就是在高考的文化行政組就是死亡之組難考缺又少所以他的錄取人數跟錄取率都是最低的下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8497.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8517.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
普考也是一樣文化行政缺少又難考所以這個提供給您因為各部會在成立很多相關的文化管所當然行政法人給了一個很大的人事彈性但是現在我沒有時間秀出後面的PVT我們有非常多的文化管所 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8518.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8526.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
包括就在新北市要成立一個最大的叫兒童未來館160億的預算國家沒有這種文化人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8527.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8554.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
包括各部會都要有文化思維的文化人才現在國營企業開始招考自己的文化人才非常好台電中油台水在做我就點到這裡前端的考選的部分對於文化類的人才的培育要更多好嗎我後面還有訓練面沒有時間講就這個部分您帶回去我後續還有時間就教於您是不是可以讓我們在文化人才的培育多一點空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8556.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8571.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我這裡事實上要補充一下,現在除了大概委員秀出來這個畫面以外,現在很多文化類的管所他用的當然不是教育人員,在這裡看不到啦,就是說教育人員進到那些場域的非常多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8572.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8588.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
但是畢竟在訓練上還是不同啦沒關係這個議題您帶回去我後續會持續的跟您討論我希望能夠把文化面向的思維多帶到跟人事總處未來的政策討論上謝謝主席多給我時間抱歉耽擱了謝謝委員謝謝吳委員謝謝蘇貞昌謝謝院長接下來有請翁委員小林諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8602.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8608.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
主席有請人事長請蘇人事長市長辛苦了從今天一早就開始接受委員們的提問跟這個準備很多的詢問那麼我看了您這裡所提出來的人事推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8629.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8643.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
人事服務的數位轉型報告裡面有非常多的未來針對數位轉型的這個措施我自己非常佩服因為這也是人事長您過去也曾經在其他的機關裡面都有推動過關於數位轉型那就這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8647.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8667.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我非常敬佩提了非常好的一些措施希望能夠減緩、紓解未來我們公務體系人力的壓力當然我更敬佩人事長在百忙之中還可以常常去其他不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8667.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8671.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
美術館、博物館和去參訪,那就像吳思堯委員一樣有非常豐富的這個文化生活。我進立法院現在大概一個半月左右,我已經覺得忙得不可開交,直到這個上星期天,上星期六才有機會去看了一個牡丹亭的昆劇的表演。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8687.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8698.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那麼我必須說其實以我個人的觀察公務機關裡面不管是軍公教其實大家的工作都非常的繁忙忙碌尤其是加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8699.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8699.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
公務員現在的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8718.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8732.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
的公務、他的業務越來越復雜而且實際上就是大家的工作壓力非常大那這也涉及到就是剛剛前面幾位委員都有在談為什麼現在報考公務人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8735.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8756.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個人數越來越少我想這個基本上也跟我們的現在公務員的薪資軍公教的薪資普遍比民間企業要來的低因為低薪所以就不容易攬財我想這個是一個還蠻清楚的一個事情那我想請教就是人事長在 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8757.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8779.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個最近這些年到底人事總處這裡有沒有曾經調查過我們國家的軍公教人員或是說我們就算是講的是公教人員的薪資與民間企業員工薪資的差距有沒有做過這樣的調查那麼甚至就是我國跟其他國家的公務員的薪資調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8781.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8805.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我跟委員報告大概每一年我們都會做一次調查因為就如同委員知道我們現在每一年大一審議委員會我們都會based on所謂的通膨還有經濟成長力民間薪資的問題還有國家財政相關的議題所以這一些跟民間薪資的部分所以也是因為我們有做這樣的一個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8807.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8833.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
所以我們最近針對某些科系像土木的建築的在公務機關人才比較不容易招募的部分我們最近密集在一些機關去做訪視我們希望說今年可以提出針對他們跟民間之間工作的內容還有待遇的部分我們做一個比較全盤性的一個瞭解因為我們不怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8839.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8861.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
市長,您最近調查我們跟民間企業的差距是多少倍?有這個數據嗎?因為其實我也認真的去看了一下你們的這個人事總處的網友我沒有看到好像相關資訊的揭露那麼到底你們所講的我們跟民間企業的薪資差距是差多少倍?這個部分我希望就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8862.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8884.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個之後可以請人事總處這裡提供給我們大家知道最好能夠在網路上面公開有嗎?有數據嗎?有有我這裡跟委員再報告一下現在高考三級的起薪大概53,520那普考大概41,000沒關係你說如果是以高考三級的話跟相當於民間的其他的哪個企業的什麼樣的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8887.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8906.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
因為我們reference是勞動部企業分民間受僱員工的好沒關係我想因為時間的關係好那就麻煩就是請你之後再提供書面資料給委員我在這裡我想要講的就是其實日本的公務最高人事機關人事院他們是每一年都會去針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8907.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8931.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這個全日本的這個1萬多家企業40、50萬的員工去做薪資調查那麼依照這個他們的所做的薪資調查再來回比我們目前的就是日本的公務員的薪資調查然後他們會每年都要定期的做檢討但是就這個部分來講的話我沒有看到人事總處是不是每年都有定期的做檢討那麼這個這個部分的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8935.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8947.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
也跟我們目前沒有法制化有關因為在我們的軍公教待遇審議委員會裡面看起來現在只是不定期的要去做調新的審議你們每一年都有做嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8948.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8970.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
報告委員,事實上每一年在調薪的時候,它裡面的一個衡量指標就是政府部門跟民間代議的差距,這一部分我們都有做。是,可是因為這樣子的一個差距都沒有公開,所以至於讓大家也不知道就是說為什麼我們現在這個看到一般民間企業的薪水是不斷的調漲,主要是他們當然還有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8972.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8990.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個額,年終獎金,等等。我們年終獎金,我們公務員、軍公教再怎麼努力,這個年終獎金,頂多也就是1.5個月。這個部分的話,就跟民間的企業員工,我覺得未來都要整體的、合併的一起來看。否則的話以現在這樣的情況下去,我們就算做再好的福利,其實也 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8991.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9018.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
不為有年輕人想要來當公務員好那接下來我想請教人事長就是您認為軍公教三種職業工作內容的性質是一樣嗎完全都不一樣是的既然是完全不一樣而且我們也有這個不同的待遇條例那麼請問為什麼我們的軍公教待遇審議委員會卻要並在一起審議他明明就是不同性質的工作應該要分開來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9020.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9039.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
事實上為什麼我們軍公教大議他會來自不同有國防部的代表然後也有教育部的代表是但是都只有一名好謝謝那我的意思是說依照現在法律裡面的規定的話他應該是行政院定之那麼行政院是不是應該成立不同的審議委員會來審議軍公教的待遇而不是合併在同一個審議委員會裡面來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9045.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9067.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好那接下來當然就今天委員其實還包含之前有委員有提到就是有關於軍公教待遇的條新審議一直沒有法制化那沒有法制化的問題我看你們在這次的預算解凍案裡面你們還是想說是未來要朝向法制化這明明就是一個簡單的事情我跟委員報告我們今年一定會法制化會完成法制化 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9069.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9084.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好,如果你們不完成的話我會幫你們提案。接下來還有一個問題就是有關於我們剛剛講的軍公教既然大家工作性質不一樣可是卻又適用同一套的奉典標準那麼請問有關於我們現在的這個奉表是由誰訂定的? |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9092.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9100.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
奉表在就是我們那個就是那被送奉集法對奉集法我們這個奉表有多少年沒有調整過幾年上次我們現在的值等喔軍公教值等從1到14值等然後我們的奉點從160點到800點這個奉表有經過調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9122.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9152.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我必須說因為這裡看起來是很久沒有調整那麼這個部分我也希望就是人事總處這裡回去可以研議接下來我們剛剛講的那個軍公教工作性質就不一樣所以不應該都適用同一套的文官的縫緊就是不應該適用單一的縫表它應該還是要有所區別還有就是說目前大家有討論現在的縫點結構到底合不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9154.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9171.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
從160點奉點到現在800點已經非常多年好像都是像這樣子的一個情況那還有就是奉點的折算額看起來這個部分是涉及到調薪的時候就會去檢討奉點折算額請問一下奉點折算額的部分是人事行政總處這裡會決定嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9175.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9181.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
所以我認為說其實呢簡單來說如果我們今天希望能夠整體拉高軍公教的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9200.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9226.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
一個非常簡單的做法也甚至不用這麼這個大幅的修法就是直接去調高奉典的折算額這個部分其實就可以解決這個問題那麼如果說我們還要回到就是說是要去討論各式各樣不同的家級還有給予獎勵等等的話這個其實又太複雜了好那最後呢我還想要請教一個問題是有關於育嬰價的問題育嬰那麼現在留職停薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9230.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9256.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
預應留職停薪這個也是在你們這次計畫書裡面有講的你們也一直希望能夠提高預應留職停薪的這個發放的津貼然後來鼓勵這個公務員能夠多養育小孩可是我認為有一個嚴重的就是應該有一個結構性的問題就是因為你們的計算標準都是以本縫 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9259.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9275.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
過去是本縫的6成然後前兩年因為配合行政院要落實0到6歲的這個子女國家養的這個政策所以有調高多2成現在是領本縫的8成但是本縫本身還是低壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9276.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9293.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
的這個母數本身就是低那你再乘以八成他還是低所以我是建議就是說這個也是請人事長回去可以思考是不是未來有關於像育嬰留職停薪的今天應該要以他的全心 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9294.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9315.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
來做考量以全新的7成或8成那這樣的話我覺得是真的可以幫助到養育子女的這個公務員同時我們現在的這個育嬰留庭是3歲子女3歲以下才可以請領既然行政院的政策是0到6歲國家養為什麼不提放寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9316.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9333.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
可以申請的資格6歲以下只要家中有6歲以下的公務員都可以申請這個育嬰留職停薪的今天我跟委員簡單的說明一下就是公保法的限制啦公保法的規範就是本婚的以本婚為計算基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9335.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9354.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
而且三足稅這些都在公保法如果委員剛才所指教的問題我們要去調整的話事實上沿途還是公保法你們要去做改所以要修法就是了對 公保法好 那就憲宜說你們可以往這方面去思考我們再把意見反映給情緒部好的 好的 謝謝謝謝翁委員 謝謝蘇委員事長接下來有請謝委員容屆諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9378.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9383.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
主席我請林署長及李明樹的副署長請人事長跟陳副署長請委員老大老大 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9393.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9404.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
您是說我在民國91年參政以來每一年從那年開始應該是差不多從那年開始國單位和這個立法機關有算 特有算就是依法你現在來數位法今天我們主席俄羅斯及伊蘊士報告有符合到19個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9421.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9429.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
若現在要AI化,經營越開越多,我相信這20多年,只有在全國所有的機關開在這裡,中間超過一百個新代表,包括要設備,硬貼、軟貼、硬貼,結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9446.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9454.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
國安說那時候差不多把國機關報告就是說,可以選多少人就多少人。差不多地方也一樣、中央也一樣。不過現在看起來你人越來越多。林署長你看這是什麼原因? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9469.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9491.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那有兩個部分啦因為說這個這二十幾天來我們新興的業務也蠻多的就是把既有的業務律動化把它自動化節省的時間移過去你講的那個不通啦對不對 業務多阿你如果要 如果要醫化 如果要數位化現在阿伯要AI化所有人都越來越多這就是一定在工族的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9496.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9505.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
有出一個問題 你要去檢討啦 你不是跟我說我因為夾毛肚來錄製 所以我人沒辦法檢 錢要錄影錄製 你的那個數位法裡面有一個說 個資的涉牢啦 你一百塊錢 我覺得這是你的問題 還是做一個機關的問題 全國所有的公務人員的個資 我跟你講 拿錢去買買有捏 你知道這個事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9524.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9530.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
在民間啊,拿錢去買,可以買到公務員的個資啊,中華民國的公務人員,你知不知道有這個事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9533.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9559.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
之前媒體有報導過啦之前媒體有報導過這件事情一百萬八年啊那如果你現在又要搞這個那個立委員剛才講的那個是之前那個專屬部的資料用於委外的過程中有一些資料被流出去資安的問題大家都知道大家都怕人生我不要跟你講這個我現在要問你就是說我們的臨時領域這個你的我剛才跟你講那個你的帳戶一定要檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9564.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9575.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那撈處理還有什麼什麼叫做主案你現在司法部你拿那麼多錢去你都沒在跟他合作誰人做誰人的對不對詐騙從源頭觀控還是一樣啊檢察官跟警察總要死結果抓你還要不要勤奮沒得緊檢察官說應該從源頭觀控你不知道那個補充說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9595.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9603.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
他們有需要可以來找我說檢察官有需要可以來找他啦這不是動盲的不是什麼所以本市現在要說臨時臨員政府的臨時臨員及藥品的臨員就對了他們為什麼臨時的可以用到計劃為什麼藥品的不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9626.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9652.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
訴用的法律是禁用的法律依據不一樣啦不是法律依據不一樣啦啊你若卡到事情的時候都是廣義公務人員貪污自罪條例要加重期刑的啊他若不遵守公務人員的保障委員機構的業聘人員他本身就是用公務人員服務法準用公務人員服務法的啊其實他就沒有公務人員的保障啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9654.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9665.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
一代不分的保證都有啦當然不像正式的公務人員這樣啦他沒辦法做主管嘛我認為這個問題我領你我陪你討論啦包括那個競銷及公務人員為什麼不能做公費這個來我請那個署長一個來署長我拜日在陪議長探討討議外的這件事你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9680.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9681.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9681.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9683.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9683.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9683.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9683.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9685.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9685.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9685.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9685.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9685.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9685.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9686.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9686.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9689.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9689.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9690.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9690.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9690.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9704.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9721.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
你的進步只有這樣而已,難怪抓不住啊。八萬五、九萬、九萬五,難怪你抓不住啊。不應該你沒這麼進步捏。這所謂民意代表差不多,好多好少大家都有去接觸到,這種的進步啊。啊可能沒人提供給你?大黑宮嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9723.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9752.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
還有啦,有多元項,比方說他就會到山區裡面,比方會去做一些砍伐山林珍貴木材的,還有也有一些是在那個...那是你們攜手抓到,我現在跟你講啦,我公開在這裡跟你拘捕啦,靠,那就抓不到了,你知不知道去工地,他不是來做黑工而已餒? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9753.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9773.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
他現在是當包工頭啊做老頭啦然後我們這些土木包的齁去跟營造廠報價比如說他今天要缺40個工我去報價一個人2800那你明天缺40個我給你帶過來你知不知道頭一我老的老頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9779.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9785.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事服務數位轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9798.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9810.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
幾乎中大型工地、農莊屋、阿林、牡丹寮、寧哥、寧中澳、寧基地、門口、工地、工廠、大廠、各市、僱用、非法、 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9813.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9817.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
你有耳紋嗎?有耳紋,不可以這樣,是你們人力不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9842.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9854.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
有各種原因那我們還是再加強查詢主席你給我看這這麼明顯的東西你如果沒有解釋錯我是已經告訴你了是勞動補充說勞動補充說移民署的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9859.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9884.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我們會積極來聯合警政署還有海巡各相關的機關來合力來把這個現象盡量的來查詢公共工程國家發包的公共工程裡面的工程也有這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9887.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9899.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
逃逸外勞的帽套,穿一頓逃逸外勞去我們的公共工廠的工地裡面去保康貴。結果,我們在地的保障帽套拿不到因為怎樣?他比較兇,我們會比他貴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9907.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9917.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
啊這會討厭我的老每天在你那裡講古典套都不扯扯說你抓到要發幾萬到幾萬啊我一半出四五十個三四十個來工地報到都抓不中副主長你看這樣會怎樣其實我們也積極在查緝啦像我們每年都至少我們有抓了兩三萬的這一些你們現在檢舉有沒有獎金檢舉還是有獎金獎金多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9936.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9945.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
一般若借10個幾萬應該差不多2萬塊左右10個呢?一般若借10個借1個幾萬?1個1萬嗎?沒有沒有,沒有那麼多現在倒楣啊沒怪你借沒有?沒怪你借沒有?以前的借1個1萬呢?啊7個才5萬呢?一般的借7個5萬呢?啊現在呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9967.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9967.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
主席阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10000.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10023.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好啦,那我們就是請那個人事總跟副署長這邊就剛剛的質詢,可以私下再給我們回覆,謝謝。好,因為剛剛本來宣告要先休息,那目前呢,先讓副委員跟吳委員正的同意先對調,那我們先進行副總召的質詢後,再休息5分鐘。好,有請副總召。 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10032.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10043.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
主席請人事長委員長人事長好請問一下現在我們這個全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10048.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10068.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
教師工會聯合總會一直在對我們人事長條性的部分有表示很多的意見是不是撥個空啊這個人事長可以跟他們接見一下沒問題沒問題因為聽說他們找不到你 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10069.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10085.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我都在啊。委託本席是不是能夠請人事長打開扇門跟他們見個面。我想他們主要要跟人事長討論的問題,我先跟你卸題一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10086.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10106.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
就對於目前整體的調薪3個百分點可能對現在整體的物價上漲軍公交人員真的是有非常大的生活上的疑慮我們舉例來講現在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10111.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10115.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
整個這個物價指數來看整個物價指數來看我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10120.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10126.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
110年4月份的時候指數是99.35然後到112年4月的時候兩年之間現在100到去年的4月是105.11那上漲了5.8百分之5.8但是呢我們現在調薪3%的話等於是變相讓我們的公務員生活得更加艱困 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10150.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10164.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
少了2.8個百分點就是他加薪不是對他有獎勵還是對他能夠改善他的生活反而是追不上物價的上漲我想人事長這部分有什麼看法沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10165.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10181.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我謝謝委員。事實上在上次的業務報告裡面也有提到請我們針對挑釁的部分去做法制化。事實上我們在法制化的研議的過程中,其中一種方式就是搭著那個CPI一起走。 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10182.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10206.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
然後再加上整個政府財政的考量那事實上因為這個是我們幕僚單位初步擬了兩個方案到時候我們會邀請一些專家寫者還有一些民間的甚至委員所提的基層的公教人員大家一起來討論看看這樣的一個調整等於就是加CPI掛照會啦那個不只是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10207.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10235.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我想這個人事長我們為什麼要來探討這個問題如果國家一流的人才這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生學校畢業以後他的選擇的方式未來就業的方式有非常多種士農工商嘛但是他如果考慮要優先到政府部門來服務的時候參加我們的高普考等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10236.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10258.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
然後進入我們的政府如果優秀的這些大專院校的畢業生、碩博士生都願意來投考我們的政府單位一流的人才進入政府就會有一流的國家當大家都不願意進入政府的時候啊這個三流的政府三流人才進政府我們就是三流的國家所以要怎麼樣確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10261.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10284.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
把最好的人才能夠為政府所網羅我想這是人事長啊你肩膀上責無旁貸的責任必須要這樣的誘因才會讓更多的優秀的這些青年學子這些人才願意走向政府我們看一下一些比較強大的國家他一流人才都比較願意進入政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10286.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10305.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以是不是我們看一下蔡總統過去對於基層勞工的部分他不是說要照顧基層勞工不只要民生物價的指數還要參考這個我們的GDP的漲幅的二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10306.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10329.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那如果這樣子算起來的話真的是差很多就是說蔡總統確實有照顧他的方向是要對我們繼承的勞工能夠有所多所幫助但是我們回想緩頭過來思考那對我們的軍公教反而是次要的甚至是不必要關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10330.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10357.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
人事長有什麼想法?事實上我們過去這幾年事實上我們很在乎到公部門來服務第一個除了待遇要好然後福利也要不差另外還有一個事實上很多人選擇到公部門服務就是因為他要去有一些成就感的問題因為在公部門服務事實上可以幫整個國家社會做更多的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10357.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10386.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那剛才委員指教的就是說除了CPI以外事實上我們之前我們憑良的也有考慮到整個經濟成長力還有那個GDP相關的指標那我覺得這些事實上這個我們現在是朝兩個方式去找一個公式把它算進來因為整個國家的經濟成長力好事實上公務人員他的貢獻度也是有的我覺得委員的一個建議事實上非常的棒謝謝人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10388.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10388.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10409.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10428.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
本席已經提到了,物價指數是5.8個百分點,兩年當中上升了5.8個百分點,但是我們調薪3%等於我們變相的可扣他們,1.8個百分點。那我們再過來再看,如果是用這個民生物價指數來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10429.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10431.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
總共上漲12個百分點。如果我們只調4%,他們真的很難生活,差了8個百分點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10448.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10473.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
所以如果我們的計算公式已經失真失靈沒有辦法確實反映到現在的生活物價水平還有民生的必需品這些生活水平真的以後我們公交人員真的不是鐵飯碗是拿一個破飯碗要出去要飯那請問這樣子還有什麼樣的優秀的人才願意進入政府部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10474.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10496.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以本席今天提出以後我謝謝我謝謝這個人事長竟然有正面來回應希望你們新的試算的公式要盡快提出來不然哪全國軍公教有太多的團體會一一到這個人事總處這裡來拜訪因為他們沒有辦法再過生活尤其去年政府超收了3860億超收了這麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10501.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10528.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
但是我們軍公教育人員一樣要過窮苦人的生活這個對他們是不公平的所以人事長本席就禁扣您看有什麼樣的什麼樣的這個新的辦法能夠提供出來讓我們大家一起來討論那另外就是不要急後面還有兩分鐘不要急那個我們眾嘉賓 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10529.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10557.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
主席真的是人才,我聽他諮詢過很多次,真的是人才。可現在這裡我要特別要跟這個人事長來分析一下,現在這個公務員這個異化的課程啊,怎麼會把轉型正義也納進去。我覺得這個已經確實很不必要做這樣的一個事情。這個尤其你們這個科目啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10559.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10588.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個科目啊你們這個20小時裡面啊10個小時要在網路上來看其實基層的公務員大家都知道嘛要掛線10個小時還在做其他的事情也沒有人在看螢幕啦這個已經現在是一個通亂了你要我連上網10個小時確實我就上網了然後我再辦其他的公務也沒有人在看那20個小時還要其他上其他的課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10588.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10615.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
是不是這個已經過分的僵化沒有實質的意義是不是自由報名參加會更加的會更加的適合您思考因為這樣得為基層的這些公務員又聽證他們的困擾聽證他們的困擾而且大家也知道嘛在這個過程當中我們今年我們政府有這麼多各自的外線包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10616.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10625.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
2018年4月臺北市政府298萬筆的個資洩漏全區部2019年6月59萬筆的個資洩漏內政部2020年的10月21號、10月25號總共不得了5000多萬筆的資料外寫所以我們現在還要再搞這個議案然後叫公務員已經這麼多的工作的情況之下他們還要搞這個另外拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10645.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10666.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
轉型正義不要再鬧了好不好這個課程是誰逼你一定要排的你告訴本席本席來幫你平反也沒有關係好不好什麼找楊翠這些真的沒有必要嘛好不好公務員怎麼提升他的工作效率不是比較重要不要又把意識形態搞到公務體系來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10668.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10683.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
對嗎?本身來覺得這個人事長你比較沒有這個正式色彩。怎麼搞得這麼有爭議的課程?對不對?又找了這些,哇這不得了,這個講話都很血腥的齁。哇這個不得了,叫做什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10685.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10713.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個哇這個楊翠啊哇這個講的話哇都是說啊什麼沾滿血腥的這個國民黨怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣還可以發言什麼欸不要把這些仇恨值啊帶給我們的公務員讓他們有一個真正行政中立的空間好不好好這課程是不是考慮就把他減免了好不好呃呃謝謝委員只叫我們會跟行政院人選及轉型正義處來反映這樣的事情不是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10713.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10736.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們不反對出轉會要做什麼事情愛聽他的課了到出轉會自己去聽但是人事總處不要強制性做這個工作好,我們來處理愛聽的人去沒有關係但不要強制好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝副總召謝謝蘇人事長我們1000天前宣告休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10742.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10771.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10783.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10795.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10805.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10823.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10825.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10844.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10844.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10858.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11044.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11066.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
現在繼續開會請吳委員中信進行詢答麻煩請人事長有請人事長吳委員早早安我想請教一下就是因為最近那個勞動部他有一個小規模以日來計算這個育嬰假五日那個開放申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11068.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11073.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
公務員男女比例以及高階公務員男女比例目前還是有一個差距在男女上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11094.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11113.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
包括到這個部分我覺得性平是我們努力的方向所以將來性平這一塊他可能會反映到公務員的男女比例上面是不是將來會越拉越近另外還有一個可能跟公務員有關男女比例的部分就是我今天想要談的就是育嬰價的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11116.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11134.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好那我想請問一下齁人事長你可不可以簡單的說明一下目前育嬰留職停薪這個制度現在辦理的狀況怎麼樣我我我這裡跟委員報告一下就公務員他如果有養育三足歲以下的子女都可以以日 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11136.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11151.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
業、年、為、單位沒有次數的限制。過去這段時間來大概有一次申請三個月以上大概八成多啦。有大概兩成左右是未達三個月因為大家的輸給沒夠嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11153.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11168.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
大概3個月以上大概有8層到8層5那剩下大概15%到20是屬於一次申請3個月以下可是他可以選擇以日為單位、月或年就是3回以下都可以都可以這樣請 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11169.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11195.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
另外,剛才有說男女異嬰流子停薪的問題齁。蓋大生前幾年坦白講,男性請異嬰流停的比較少。最近他成長的幅度非常非常的快。他現在已經大概男性請異嬰流停,他的比率已經差不多18%。女性大概82%。他本來大概5%左右,他的成長速度非常的快。 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11196.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11206.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這幾年男性請議員留庭的還蠻多的而且我們這幾年有做一個制度夫妻可以同時請議員留庭的女兒都可以做主委請有做這個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11210.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11238.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個是已經通過的嗎?已經通過了目前就是這樣實施的好那謝謝那我們看一下就是現在的比例從107年到112年當然我們看到就是107年男女申請留庭的這個比例他的差距本來是從72.8然後到現在剩下56.8也就是說這個比例確實就如同剛剛任市長說的他的這個差距確實在縮小中 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11239.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11268.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那我覺得這是一個好現象那我也覺得說請教一下你們有沒有去研究一下為什麼這男女比會差這麼多我傳統的因為孩子還有親戚的問題女性去照顧可能會比較方便當然他們也有透過其他的方式大概每一個人他考慮的一個情況不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11269.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11296.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
最近我們在觀察就男性事實上他覺得在夫妻之間他們有一個協調就是有可能他們兩個工作場合不一樣工作場合有可能是公家一個可能是私人機關有可能兩個都是公家機關他的樣態也是還蠻多元的不過假如有希望我們再試著去做進一步的分析我們再進一步去調查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11298.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11316.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
因為這有一個可能性啦就是說因為我上次跟人事長有請教過這高階公務員他的男女比例有差距那一樣在申請留庭的時候我想每一個家庭除了考量到剛剛那個人事長說的那個餵養的問題之外當然有一個可能性就是也許是薪資嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11317.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11341.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
高階公務員男性的比例就是比較高當然他們在考量薪資的時候當然會選擇薪資比較低的那個去申請留職聽薪我想請問一下包含到上一次我跟您請教的問題到這一次有關留職聽薪你有沒有想過這個差距有沒有去做過相關的關聯性分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11343.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11372.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
相關關聯性齁其實討論委員講的就是我的待遇可能比較高所以我就留著工作待遇比較低的因為另外有一種現象我可能跟委員稍微說明一下因為每一個你信的目前在行政指的會比較多他的配基本上會比較低你如果是屬於工程直系的或其他直系的他的配會比較高基本上他夫妻同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11372.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11394.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
有,這一種情況會有兩種選擇一種是夫妻同時就請一因留庭就處理,這就會夠嘛吼,這樣負擔還不會那麼重另外一個就是說,為了,雖然我們有本奉的八成的一個補助,但是說這個一個家庭的位置,他們的算帳的,覺得比較晚,就有可能什麼人的債券比較貴,那些會流開 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11399.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11419.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
也不見得都是男性的待遇會比較高因為我們最近發現有些女性同仁的待遇事實上也不見得比男性差所以這部分我就說是不是可以去做一個關聯性分析到底問題出在哪裡當然我們直覺就覺得有一個像您剛說的餵養問題那我剛說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11421.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11421.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
高階的一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11449.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11449.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11471.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11499.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
沒有啦,有機會我再告訴你我我會回去做那個關聯性分析啦我覺得這個議題也非常棒啊這個議題非常棒對就是我想說我們就是做一個對國家有幫助的這個調查一下好那我後面再跟你請教一個問題就是這個AI到時候這個接下來我們可以預期到AI可能會一個爆炸性的成長那這個AI將來爆炸性成長之後我們公務員對於人力上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11500.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11513.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
你們有沒有去預想將來這能力上面的這個衝擊你們會怎麼做?這沒分 其實齁我們就是人工智慧事實上就是看你怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11514.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11536.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
主要就看你贏當然他會有很多的一個負面的一個impact他會有衝擊嘛我舉人種為例啦就上一年上一年二月的時候就前年年底CHIP GPT剛出來我們上一年年底上一年二月份我們就啟動一個CHIP GPT的一個實驗型的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11537.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11566.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們就是跟前續部保訓會考選部他們有一些法規還有一些事例我們把這些人事法規的部分把它等於透過CHAP GPT因為我們進步到的問題很多新進的人事人員進來他人事法規他也不曉得要如何去查如何去查到對的法規所以我們有去做這樣的一個實驗大概從準確率大概六成慢慢拉到大概八成左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11567.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11573.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
因為人工智慧本來一直要對話不過這裡我必須要跟委員報告一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11574.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11599.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們不是在雲端的一個處理模式,我們是在地端。我們是把那個資料download到地端,因為我們也擔心在雲端的話,CFGPD有時候他去抓的資料,他的正確性往後會降低,因為他是一個cost domain的概念,所以我們是用地端。就上一年12月底,我們也有對外發表了一個使用的心得。 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11599.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11614.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那我想我們會持續在其他領域像今年我們會啟動一個計劃就是來試做那個會議記錄當我開完會了以後我透過CHAPGPD可以在最短的時間把那個會議記錄把它產生出來那我為什麼提到這個AI |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11616.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11634.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那個風行之後可能對這個人事有很大影響就是我們公務員不管負擔過重或負擔過輕都不是人民能夠接受的好那我就有個例子就是美國那個新墨西哥州政府他有一個嬰兒機器人的自動程序他把以前需要一個月的 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11635.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11635.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
公務員復單 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11660.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11672.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
過重或過輕人民都沒有辦法接受我們一個最適當的那個人力運用是最好的好好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝吳昭偉謝謝蘇仁次長接下來有請政委員天才資訊好我們請政委員天才 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11693.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11714.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
主席,各位委員,有請人事長。委員長,人事長好,辛苦了。看這個,我已經不只一次提了這個蔡總統的一個原住民族就業的政策,現在已經這個快8年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11715.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11733.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
要保障上萬新的工作機會開創永續的原住民族經濟發展政府要負擔保障原住民就業之責人事行政總處就是其中之一公務令特種考試很久很久了已經幾十年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11742.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11764.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我們看這個嚴明特考這幾年了逐年減少這個入企人數更是逐年減少如果我們去相較於這個107年107年這是一個當時的一個考試規則好尤其是民國95年民國95年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11774.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11801.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
公務人員民特考的副表10這個副表現在已經沒有了當時為什麼要特別要把這個列出來的你看看當時有列在這個表裡面的有司法院他會禁用員住民特考內政部、教育部、交通部、法務部、財政部、經濟部、外交部、衛生福利部 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11803.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11821.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
農委會、勞動部、僑委會、人事行政總處、主計總處、海巡署、退府會、文化部、各縣市政府。所以當時中央各部會都會禁用 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11823.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11852.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這個之前我質詢過人事行政總處有一年有禁用後來又沒有禁用這幾年有禁用嗎?有有我們現在有有從燕民會挖了一個非常優秀的原住民同仁過來不是我講的是特考不是不是沒有對啊之前有喔有列喔所以這個部落是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11853.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11862.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
由我們就以這個園民會的人事室來講啊過去人事室主任是原住民哦而且是 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11864.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11892.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
超原住民族里面人口最少的少族去擔任主任喔那個都是在神府時代啊所培養的透過原住民行政特考所培養出來的現在他退休很多年了我跟委員補充一下齁人總今年沒有提原住民的特考可是我們整個人事體系的總共提了3位3位有提3位這個一條邊3位是太少了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11893.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11920.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以這個部會再加獎啦會再加獎對不只是要這樣因為所有各部會要提報有兩個管道嘛以中央部會來講一個你要都是人事單位啊人事室人事處在負責的嘛都是你一條邊的他要提報到高考補考 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11921.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11940.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
還是要提報到原住民族行政特考就是人事單位在負責所以這個部分要去協調為什麼要特別列這個就是這幾年各部會都不提當時你們想想看連外交部都提喲僑委會都提喲 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11942.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11963.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11963.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11975.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11975.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11977.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
接下來這個博物館 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12004.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12017.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
原住民族博物館原住民族已經等待超過8年以上了那因為時間的關係我就不不繼續一個一個來談我就看最後一個部分這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12024.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12050.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
有一個文號就是說這個顏名會顏名會有含報給這個國發會就是有關原住民族博物館的一個籌備處籌備處的這個你們到現在還沒有寫同意是不是可以請人事行政總處這邊來支持就是原住民族博物館的籌備處 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12058.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12076.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們在今年的2月2號的時候監察院有約詢那我們有請園民會提供一些相關的資料我們會盡力來支持因為111年的時候園民會有答覆就是說他們有提報這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12080.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12104.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
這個國立原住民族博物館籌備處的暫行組織規程報給行政院,行政院交給人事行政總處這個部分要積極的來處理好,謝謝委員主動請那個顏明輝再提報一次好不好,好,謝謝好,謝謝,那我們接下來請油耗委員油耗委員油耗委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12107.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12109.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
蘇清泉委員楊瓊英委員鄭振淺委員林德福委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12137.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12158.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
現在目前所有登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢那詢答結束委員詢問的時候如果諮詢的時候如果有要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆的請相關資料緊速交給各個委員或本會那現在休息後我們再繼續處理預算解凍案 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12322.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12326.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
因為我們在等候人數那與預算解凍案無關的機關代表可先行離席 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12359.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12377.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
繼續開會進行議程所列預算解凍案再次說明因報告事項第4案之預算解凍案經昨日院會覆議所以該案不予處理處理前先請議事人員宣讀報告事項除第4案以外的個案及討論事項之預算解凍案請一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12380.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12397.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
報告事項第3案、第5案至第9案。行政院人事行政總處含為113年度中央政府總預算決議、檢送決議一基本行政工作維持預算凍結200萬元書面報告、檢送決議三公教人員婚喪生育及子女教育補助預算凍結200萬元書面報告、 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12399.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12406.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
檢送決議51人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結30萬元書面報告檢送決議53人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結20萬元書面報告檢送決議54給予福利制度規劃預算凍結75000元書面報告檢送公務人力發展學院決議1 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12424.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12433.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
訓練、輔導及研究預算凍結300萬元書面報告請查招案等6案．討論事項．行政院人事行政總處含為113年度中央政府總預算決議減送決議52人事行政制政策規劃執行及發展預算凍結30萬元書面報告請查招案。宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12447.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12472.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好現在進行報告事項先處理報告事項中第4案以外之個案那有關人事行政院人事行政總處及所屬113年度預算解凍書面報告案既以列入議程報告並經宣讀那我們做如下決定報告事項第3案第5至9案經准予備查提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12473.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12495.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
OK好那麼如意那我們就通過那接下來呢我們啊?你是報告事項嗎?我也想報告事項不是不是報告事項好是報告事項嗎?我沒有報告事項第三案第5至第9案好來請來翁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12497.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12524.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
因為我剛剛有提到就是希望人事總處這邊可以檢討有關於育嬰留職停薪的這個縫額的部分然後是不是可以從本縫然後提高到就是以全薪那麼相關的法制延期希望我們會洽主管機關我們會洽主管機關來好然後還有剛剛講的那個第三案就是軍公教條軍公教的抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12536.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12557.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
就是軍公教待遇審議法制化因為你們都一直沒有提所以也希望你們我們已經有答應會提出來你到底又會提出來了對對對我們也有答應今天會提還有就是也請你們是不是應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12560.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12581.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
提供跟民間企業員工的薪資研究報告要調查所以你們每一年都有做但是你們自己也要做啊你們為什麼從勞動部做因為勞動部是勞動部的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12596.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12612.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
可是我認為比較基礎還是不太一樣所以我希望說以後你們自己也要去做study因為像日本的話他們就是自己的這個日本的人事院他們自己會去做一份 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12613.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12640.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
然後而且他的我們現在這個勞工的薪資他的range很廣我覺得你們還是要去參考就符合我們現在軍公教的一些職等還有他的職務的性質到相近的委員你現在提的後段的這個部分就是本身我們就在做可是以我們跟勞動部的分工整個民間薪資的是以勞動部的調查為主然後再Reference到公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12641.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12653.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
事實上這個是部會之間合作因為像主計總處他會去做他的相關的那一種統計每一種就是物價的這些是每一個部會之間的一個分工的問題好那你們可以你們大概是每年什麼時候會做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12662.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12681.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
基本上會在5月到7月之間我們在調代的時候這些資料都要完成因為沒有這個資料我們就調代的一些參考資料就沒有嘛所以我們在基本上會在5月左右就會把這些資料收集好 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12683.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12693.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
總之就是說希望你們在最近的這一個月可以把你們過去所做的所有的跟民間企業的薪資的調整比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12695.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12712.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
民間薪資的部分我想過去這3年的資料我們會後再送給委員參考重要的是說你們自己那個薪資條審議委員會裡面你們怎麼去看待這個事情你們總是有個study嗎沒有嗎或是你們參考了之後的結論這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12716.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12742.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
說明都必須要這些會議的我跟委員報告就是我們現在的是被從這五個五大因素加去衡量的可是你現在這些衡量是很抽象的所以我是想因為我們是幕僚去做一個建議然後final決定還是在行政院我們是事實上是做幕僚分析而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12745.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12770.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
好那你們也把你們的目標分析的報告你們會議的結果這些都要提送而且這個部分都是要趕快去研擬相關的這個規範要看它提升法律慰藉因為現在只是要點至少要拉伸到行政要訂定法規命令對必要的時候我都認為說應該要比照像是這個基本工資法現在叫最低工資法 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12771.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12783.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我跟委員報告這個就是我們答應年底要法制化這裏面都會把它include進來年底法制化的意思是說是年底之前才提出草案嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12794.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12802.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
太慢了吧不會啦,不會到年底啦我們最近會密集召開一些會議對,那我們這樣的話你們的案子等到6月之後我跟委員報告因為還要會商組總相關單位還有前序部因為這個還要牽涉到跨院的一些協調的問題過去這麼多年來你們都沒有協調嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12822.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12836.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
每一次的改變都要重新協調一次因為有一些條件值都不一樣以前是否制度化我們現在是要法制化考慮的文字的用詞各方面大家的共識度要更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12837.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12840.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
我們會盡快,我們會盡快三個月應該沒辦法因為我們之前有盤了因為還要召開相關利益團體也要進來大家一起討論也不是我們公部門就基層公教人員啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12860.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12882.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
欸就是要納進來因為我覺得他們的意見也非常重要啊所以要納進來所以我們必須要有比較長的一個溝通時間其實我認為三個月的時間差不多應該是夠的啦實務上我們事實上有困難三個月之後我們來看然後你們所提的因為這個部分之前已經累積了很多的草案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12883.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12910.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
的已經累積了很多不同的草案,你們稍微再修正一下就可以提了啊。這是修正的弧度會很...現在的環境也沒有太多的改變。這樣好不好,我們人總這邊,因為你們今天是這個書面報告的一個提出,那翁委員對這個書面報告的內容希望你們能夠提出更進一步的說明,那三個月內我想是你們再給一個書面補充給翁委員的,針對翁委員所要的內容給他,好不好?好,謝謝翁委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12912.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12939.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好,那麼報告事項各案是否就依先前宣告准予被查提報院會好,謝謝好,那麼接下來我們進行討論事項那討論事項一案行政院人事行政總處113年度預算解凍案前以一併宣讀請問各位委員有沒有異議好,如果沒有異議我們就做如下決議那准予動之提報院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12941.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12946.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
好,議程所列事項均已處理完畢,會議到此結束,現在散會,謝謝大家。 |