| IVOD_ID |
157622 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157622 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-20-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-28T11:30:16+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-28T11:41:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9b765842ec257966d99013dd3304363b768d6645aa7846739bb85de07fde91d3ebd2ef2fddbaddb65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:30:16 - 11:41:59 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計處、審計部高雄市審計處部分。（詢答及處理）
三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金。（詢答及處理）
【預算提案截止時間：11月26日（二）中午12時】
【11月25日及28日二天一次會】） |
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主席、各人、處列席、官員大家好。主席可不可以請主計長。請主計長。陳主計長。委員好。你好。的確,國內的貧富懸殊啊,越來越大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.295 |
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40.412 |
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一夜之秋我們看到美國總統的選舉很多人說拜登為什麼這一方面會輸川普會上主計長你覺得最大的意涵在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
46.137 |
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其實就是美國的美國夢現在已經消失了過去美國追求的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.205 |
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92.227 |
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財富的自由他們追求的就是大概都生活在相同的理念以及所有的環境或者是你的生活、車輛等等有車有房這個都是大家通通都有但是結構一直在改變就是因為貧富懸殊越來越大臺灣現在最有錢跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
93.291 |
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104.716 |
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沒有資產的這個相差的比例是多少?它目前基尼西數它是差倍66.966倍啊?這個差距大不大? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.933 |
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132.851 |
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以目前來講因為我們也跟其他外國來比事實上也不算最高的但是這是自由經濟發展的一個必然的一個成果所以這個部分我們也盡量要來做如果你說的自由經濟發展最後的終點是貧富懸殊越來越大甚至是100倍是1000倍那主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
134.042 |
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159.173 |
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那你這樣的一個自由經濟發展一定要趕快來做調整不然社會的動盪社會的不穩定馬上就出現就好比說現在物價飆漲房價高漲那主計長我請問你租房子的租屋族大概有多少人? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
162.373 |
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169.396 |
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幾百萬戶?一百萬戶三百萬的人,這些年輕人比較多數,在租房子認真念書畢業以後為了工作在雙北、在六都工作就要租房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.004 |
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206.955 |
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那主計長房價有沒有飆漲有最近房價有沒有比較往下掉目前是有啦有吧齁往下掉主計長我請問你那為什麼房租沒有掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
209.659 |
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238.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
其實房租的部分我再補充說明一下因為我們統計調查的結果整個在需求上面有需要租屋的需求我們統計調查的數字大概87萬左右那所以我們本身最近在做一個有一些租屋補貼的一些政策那這一個部分目前大概也都是超過60萬以上的一個補助是這樣子對 但是覺得很奇怪打房不是政府說打房已經見效了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.727 |
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258.499 |
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成效出現房價開始緩或是跌那你房租應該要降啊不然你們要想辦法看有什麼策略讓300萬的租屋族他住得起他生活得起心智都沒漲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
288.066 |
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薪資是有漲喔,薪資是有漲一到九月的薪資它整個一個實質如果扣除通膨它實際是成長的好,你說薪資有漲,漲幾%這個部分它扣除通膨明目超過2%實質也在一點多%就是明目有超過2%啦,實質也一點多%這樣子啦你就漲那個一點多%不痛不癢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.997 |
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319.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就算你漲個你說的2%所有的民眾感覺是難過的啊因為你薪資漲1%漲2%抵不過我吃的那個雞腿便當抵不過我每天工作中午晚上吃的排骨便當啊排骨台那個排骨便當1000一個便當也才 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
341.72 |
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六、七十塊現在一個排骨便當要多少錢排骨便當的話火車站附近就是一百塊一百塊喔阿雞腿便當一百二十塊阿本來六十塊漲一百塊漲四十塊耶主計長阿超過70%捏然後你說薪資成長才2%跟你講3%好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
348.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
375.698 |
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遠遠追不上物價的飆漲這個是扣除物價的成長總之啊是主計長是很多官員來這邊啊是鐵打的政府、流水的官啊流來流去反正我在這邊待個兩年、三年時間到下台一鞠躬沒什麼事可是國家的發展是要永續的啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
376.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
404.89 |
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拜託啊,貧富懸殊要怎麼樣縮短它的差距不是要叫大家貧喔你們政府就要想方法讓大家全部都富起來時代在變政府很多官員的心態一直沒有調整沒有與時俱進是主計長是你有沒有買比特幣沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
407.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
435.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你沒有啊政府有沒有鼓勵大家買比特幣一般也是不鼓勵啦從頭到尾都反對啊所以我舉例的這個新興的產業因為政府的阻止政府的不輔導讓很多年輕人啊少掉致富的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
464.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
虛擬貨幣這些交易或這次成長老扣扣都不知道啦最有機會接觸的就是這些年輕人政府又全盤的封殺主計長如果政府從10年前就開始給予適當的空間合法合規的輔導主計長你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
467.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
492.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這10年來虛擬貨幣、比特幣的成長成長了幾倍?因為有時候高風險高報酬啦成長了幾倍?主計長成長了1萬倍換言之10年前你如果讓這些年輕人他去接觸他有機會可以賺到錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
494.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
519.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
結果你封殺了這些年輕的機會造成了過去在整個結構裡面富者橫富、貧者越貧所以你就拉開不斷的拉開了財富的差距我們就要說政府要用新的思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
522.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
549.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
來多想一些辦法來鼓勵年輕人讓年輕人活在臺灣是有希望的讓未來社會的結構不要產生矛盾是要更和諧的這個才是你們每年編預算的一個重要的宗旨最後再問一個問題軍公教人員待遇的問題是我最關心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
551.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
579.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我希望每一年政府稅收都超徵今年超徵多少這個部分目前大概應該是三千多億吧三千多億本席一直主張每一個人發紅包一萬塊你們已經開始做了沒這個部分一個幾萬塊大家都會心存感激謝謝政府謝謝主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
581.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
610.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你與其把錢亂亂花倒不如拿一萬塊讓大家花放在自己的口袋更安心更安全而不是每一次你們來立法院拿著五張紙就叫所有的立委說欸臺電缺錢你要撥補一千億趕快趕快通過不要吧不要做這個該做的你要做所以說超徵就還稅於民啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
612.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
631.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們優先來還債還債可以部分的還啦然後你那個有一些不該花的一些軍購買了半天東西也沒到買的有的還沒過期的買的還被中間的前客A了一筆那個都很大條欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
633.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
662.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
黃先生主席長你多好好思考一下啦像臺電你一直要一千億那請問臺電有沒有做到開源節流現在核市做不做這個部分我們會請臺電來做檢討啦現在核市已經停掉嘛那核市做不做這個部分也必須要他們來做一些檢討之後你就算做不做你知道那個核市場那個地有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
666.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
695.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
已經閒置在那邊多久?不信你問審計長一些土地閒置在那邊那一些老舊設備又不提升開園沒做、節流也沒做唯一想的就是趕快要錢要錢這樣的心態我們怎麼樣願意把一千億就隨便你們說了五張紙的報告我們就通過讓你們拿一千億去用拜託啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
697.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
701.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
錢要花在刀口上省一點用這是民脂民膏啊拜託謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
884 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（11時30分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，麻煩請主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請主計長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
羅委員明才：主計長好。國內的貧富懸殊越來越大，一葉知秋，我們看到美國總統的選舉，很多人問拜登為什麼會輸而川普為什麼會上，主計長，你覺得最大的意涵在哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：主要可能是通貨膨脹造成物價漲太多。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
羅委員明才：對，其實就是美國的美國夢現在已經消失了，過去美國追求的就是財富的自由，他們所追求的大概都是相同的理念，所有的環境，或者是你的生活、車輛等等，有車有房都是大家統統都有。但是結構一直在改變，就是因為貧富懸殊越來越大。臺灣現在最有錢跟沒有資產的相差比例是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：目前吉尼係數差倍是66.9。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
羅委員明才：66倍，這個差距大不大？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：目前來講，我們也跟其他外國來比，事實上也不算最高的，但是這是自由經濟發展的必然成果，所以這個部分我們也儘量要來做…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
羅委員明才：如果你說的自由經濟發展最後的終點是貧富懸殊越來越大，甚至是100倍，是1,000倍，主計長，這樣的自由經濟發展一定要趕快做調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
羅委員明才：不然社會的動盪、社會的不穩定，馬上就出現。就好比現在物價飆漲、房價高漲，請問主計長，租房子的租屋族大概有多少人？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：差不多300萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
羅委員明才：300萬的人，是以年輕人比較多數，就是在租房子，他們認真念書，畢業以後為了在雙北、六都工作就要租房子，主計長，房價有沒有飆漲？最近房價有沒有比較往下掉？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：目前是有。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
羅委員明才：有嘛，有往下掉，那我請問主計長，為什麼房租沒有掉？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：對於房租的部分我再補充說明一下。因為我們統計調查的結果，有需要租屋的需求，我們統計調查數字大概87萬左右，所以我們最近在做一些租屋補貼的政策，這個部分目前大概都是超過60萬以上的補助。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
羅委員明才：對，但是我覺得很奇怪，政府不是說打房已經見效了嗎？成效出現房價開始緩或是跌，所以房租應該要降啊！不然你們要想辦法看有什麼策略，讓300萬的租屋族能夠住得起，能夠生活得起，因為薪資都沒漲啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：薪資是有漲，1到9月的薪資，如果扣除通膨實際是成長的。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
羅委員明才：好，你說薪資有漲，漲幾趴？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分扣除通膨，就是名目有超過2%，實質也百分之一點多。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
羅委員明才：就漲一點多趴不痛不癢，就算漲個你說的2%，所有的民眾感覺是難過的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：就是高過物價。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
羅委員明才：因為薪資漲1%或是2%，抵不過我吃的雞腿便當，抵不過我每天工作中午或晚上吃的排骨便當啊！一個排骨便當以前也才六、七十塊，現在一個排骨便當要多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：排骨便當的話，火車站附近就是100塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
羅委員明才：100塊？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是，雞腿便當是120塊。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
羅委員明才：本來60塊，漲成100塊，漲40塊耶！主計長，漲幅超過百分之六、七十了耶！薪資成長才2%，跟你講就3%好了，遠遠追不上物價的飆漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個是扣除物價的成長。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
羅委員明才：總之，主計長，很多官員來這邊，鐵打的政府、流水的官，流來流去反正我就在這邊待個兩年、三年，時間到就下台鞠躬，可是國家的發展是要永續的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
羅委員明才：拜託啊，貧富懸殊要怎麼樣縮短它的差距，不是要叫大家貧喔，你們政府就要想方法讓大家全部都富起來，時代在變，政府很多官員的心態一直沒有調整，沒有與時俱進。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][1] |
主計長，你有沒有買比特幣？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
羅委員明才：你沒有啊？政府有沒有鼓勵大家買比特幣？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：一般也是不鼓勵啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
羅委員明才：從頭到尾都反對啊，所以我舉例這個新興的產業，因為政府的阻止，政府的不輔導，讓很多年輕人少掉致富的機會，虛擬貨幣這些交易或這次成長，「老硞硞」都不知道啦，最有機會接觸的就是這些年輕人，政府又全盤的封殺。主計長，如果政府從10年前就開始給予適當的空間、合法合規的輔導，你知道這10年來虛擬貨幣比特幣成長了幾倍？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：因為有高風險、高報酬啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
羅委員明才：成長了幾倍？主計長，成長了1萬倍，換言之，10年前你如果讓這些年輕人去接觸，他有機會可以賺到錢，結果你封殺了這些年輕人的機會，造成了過去在整個結構裡面富者恆富、貧者越貧，所以你就不斷的拉開了財富差距。我們希望政府要用新的思維來多想一些辦法，來鼓勵年輕人，讓年輕人活在臺灣是有希望的，讓未來社會的結構不要產生矛盾，要更和諧的，這個才是你們每年編預算的一個重要的宗旨。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][1] |
最後再問一個問題，軍公教人員待遇的問題是我最關心的，每一年政府稅收都超徵，今年超徵多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分目前大概應該是三千多億吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
羅委員明才：三千多億，本席一直主張每一個人發紅包1萬塊，你們已經開始做了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
羅委員明才：一個1萬塊，大家都會心存感激，謝謝政府，謝謝主計長，你與其把錢亂亂花，倒不如拿1萬塊讓大家花，放在自己口袋更安心、更安全，而不是每一次你們來立法院拿著五張紙就告訴所有立委台電缺錢要撥補1,000億，要我們趕快通過。不要吧！不要做這個，該做的你要做，稅收超徵就還稅於民啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們優先來還債。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
羅委員明才：還債可以部分的還，然後你們有一些不該花的，還有一些軍購，買了半天東西也沒到，有的還買了過期的，買了還被中間的掮客A了一筆，那個都很大條。我希望主計長好好思考一下，像台電一直要1,000億，請問台電有沒有做到開源節流？現在核四做不做？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們會請台電來做檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
羅委員明才：現在核四已經停掉了，那核四做不做？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這個部分也必須要他們來做一些檢討之後…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
羅委員明才：就算做不做，你知道核四廠那個地有多大？已經閒置在那邊多久？不信你問審計長，一些土地閒置在那邊，一些老舊設備又不提升，開源沒做，節流也沒做，唯一想的就是趕快要錢、要錢，對於這樣的心態，我們怎麼願意就隨便讓你們以五張紙的報告就通過讓你們拿1,000億去用？拜託！錢要花在刀口上，省一點用，這是民脂民膏啊，拜託！ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
主席：謝謝羅明才委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][1] |
接著請黃國昌委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
170 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-20-10 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-28 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310702 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310702_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並
備質詢；二、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關主計總處暨審計部、審計部臺北市審
計處、審計部新北市審計處、審計部桃園市審計處、審計部臺中市審計處、審計部臺南市審計
處、審計部高雄市審計處部分；三、審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案有關直轄市及縣市
政府。調整軍公教人員待遇準備。災害準備金。第二預備金 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310702_00001 |