| IVOD_ID |
15759 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15759 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-27T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-27T12:53:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:23:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e25f9b1f895064d3b9b5fa2f296a935343be8d109af184be43f0c65e0cf5f190e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月25日及27日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 12:53:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1819.406 |
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1837.92 |
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現在開始開會請大家各就各位來現在繼續開會請議事人員宣讀今日議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1843.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1871.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告．並備質詢。宣布安定介紹來請來請大家各位記者媒體先生回到自己的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1876.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1904.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
好介紹介紹現場吳秉瑞吳委員林德福林委員行政院主計總處主計長朱澤民中央銀行總裁楊金龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1908.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1933.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
外匯局局長蔡炯明經濟研究處處長吳亦娟經濟部政府次長曾文森能源署副署長吳志偉綜合規劃師副司長許嘉玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1935.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1959.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
委員事業管理司副司長劉啟孝統計處副處長黃偉傑台灣電力股份有限公司總經理王耀廷今天議程安排邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1962.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1981.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中央銀行楊總裁、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響提出專題報告．並備質詢。現在請行政院主計總處朱主計長進行專題報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1992.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2012.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席、各位委員、民事先生、針對電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響專題報告如下第一個是COVID-19的疫情與歐戰爭的推升了國際能源及糧食的價格加劇了各國物價的上漲壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2014.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2020.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
另外一個從112年到全年的CPI是漲了2.95%另外112年它是由收斂至2.49%但是以主要國家來比較我們的漲幅仍然是相對溫柔 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2034.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2043.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一一跟一一二年歐元區的CPI分別上漲8.4%及5.4%美國是上漲8.0%跟4.1%加新加坡是上漲6.1%跟4.8%南南是上漲5.1%跟3.6%日本是上漲2.5%跟3.3%那我國物價的漲幅相對是比較低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2059.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2073.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
政府採用了公共匯率調控與民生物資價格監控．扮演了重要角色．如向民生用的天然氣、統磚瓦斯價格動漲．住宅用電僅針對大戶用電調漲．另外油價也採取了亞領最低級反漲機制．並調降大宗物資的． |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2086.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2115.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
後稅有促緩減緩CPI的上漲壓力以我國110歐元年跟累積111年跟120歐元年的電價漲幅來看我國是上漲了百分之平均是上漲5.3%明顯第一南韓的上漲百分之38歐元區的百分之35新加坡的百分之27及美國的百分之20 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2118.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2124.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那4月1日開始台電高這個是電價平均調漲這個是11個百分點影響主計總處是估計影響113年度CPI的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2134.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2155.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
展覆大概是0.18個百分點而本次電價調整方案評估直接影響CPI因為電匯占CPI的全數是百分之1.15大概所謂對CPI的直接影響主計總數估計是0.07個百分點另外產業用電上漲將推升生產成本假設廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2162.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2172.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
成本立即完全轉嫁將間接影響0.17個百分點合計的整年對CPI是0.24個百分點但是電價是4月份才開始漲所以對113年CPI的漲幅影響是0.18個百分點0.18個百分點那原來的我們在主計總處在2月29日這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2188.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2193.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個是在沒有考慮電價調漲影響下預測全年CPI是1.85個百分點現在若考慮4月份電價調整的影響預測113年CPI將上漲2.03百分之2.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2207.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2208.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
現在請中央銀行楊總裁進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2247.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2272.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生今天曾邀前來貴委員會報告電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響自感榮幸以下僅就本行業務相關部分提出報告敬請會事指教一近年全球同盟壓力攀升主要央行大幅升息請參看表1跟表2二 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2275.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2296.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
近年台灣通膨發展以主要經濟體類似為台灣通膨相對穩定徒於台灣CPI及商品類服務類價格連增率請各位參考本年國際機構預測本年油價略高於上年國內商品價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2300.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2321.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
商品類價格將溫和上漲且國內服務價格受高積極影響漲幅渴望縮小台灣通膨力將較上年趨反考量4月國內電價調漲本行上修本年CPI及核心CPI年增率預測值分別為2.16%、2.03%人分別低於上年的2.49%及2.58% |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2331.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2336.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
相較疫情前近年台灣物價漲幅較高本行採行溫和漸進緊縮貨幣政策意志國內通膨疫情心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2347.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2371.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
是考量電價調漲恐形成較高的通膨率期本年3月本行調升政策利率將有助促進物價穩定並協助整體經濟金融穩健發展本年3月21日本行理事會考量本年國內通膨率將逐季反部回降為2021年至2024年通膨率多高於2% |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2376.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2396.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
請參看圖2以及本年4月國內電價調漲恐形成較高的通膨預期在本年經濟成長渴望增温下為抑制國內通膨預期心理決議調升政策利率0.125個百分點將有助促進物價穩定並協助整體經濟金融穩健發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2402.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2409.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
5.本行依據通膨發展與經濟金融情勢變化事實調整貨幣政策因應1. |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2409.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2424.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因應國內物價波動政府設立跨部會之行政院穩定物價小組採取平穩大宗物資價格機制之供給面措施反而能源及食物價格波動 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2425.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2438.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對整體物價的穩定有很大的幫助本行預期本年國內通膨率將維持緩步回降未來本行仍將持續關注電價調整進零轉型等對國內通膨發展的後續影響並關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2444.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2473.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主要經濟體貨幣政策動向中國大陸經濟下行風險、國際原物料價格變化、地緣政治風險、極端氣候等對國內經濟金融情勢之影響事實調整貨幣政策以達成維持物價穩定與金融穩定並於上述目標範圍內協助經濟發展之法定職者以上報告敬請各位委員會室指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2475.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2480.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝接著請經濟部曾次長進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2488.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2509.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席及各位委員先敬大家早安那感謝委員平日對本部各項業務的協助與指教今天承蒙財務會的邀請本部就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響來起訴專案報告那首先呢對於電價調整的合理性跟必要性主要有三個原因第一個原因是國際燃料價格的飆漲是現在台電承擔虧損最主要的一個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2515.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2535.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那也因為台電其實環長剛才在總裁跟主席總長的報告裡面都提到就是民生的費率其實我們採取一個比較和緩的調漲方式對於國內的物價穩定有一定程度的幫助但這個調漲會慢慢的來做一點反映成本的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2535.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2557.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以台電公司因為先前是吸收燃料價格的漲勢所以我們2022年2023年大概每一度電的虧損大概是1.2元到0.9元那2023年整個累積的虧損也大到3826億元那第二個理由是事實上不是只有台灣在漲電價全世界各國都在漲電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2559.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2570.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
二五戰爭造成的燃料價格的飆漲很多國家是非常快的就直接反映在電價上面那台灣的反應是相對來講比較慢那2022年到2023年韓國、德國這些國家的工業電價累積調幅分別已經達到87%跟34%那法國跟英國更是調高了160%跟126% |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2585.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2601.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那台灣的電價調幅相對緩和那第三個部分是台電的財務事實上財務的穩健也是一個非常非常重要的目標那今年我們有向行政院爭取政府的補助那也透過適當的調價來反映成本讓台電的財務能夠相對的穩健那如果沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2608.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2625.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
行政院的財務上的支持以及這一次的調整那我們預估臺電公司的淨值在今年年底2024年的年底可能會只剩下228億元所以臺電公司跟經濟部會持續的來爭取政府的補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2627.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2648.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
讓電價合理的做調整那同時考慮整個民生經濟讓調整的幅度能夠合理那這一次3月22號電價委員會做出來的電價調整的方案跟原則跟委員會報告如下第一個就是有關於電價調整事實上他是有一個固定機制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2649.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2660.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那這麼多年來事實上行政單位都是依照著這個固定的機制在執行而這個固定的機制是基於立法院在民國104年1月20日有通過電價計算公式同時決議設置電價費率審議會 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2670.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2694.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個審議會的這個決議事實上把整個電價審議的期程就是每年的3月9月審議4月1號跟10月1號實施這樣子的期程以及審議的主要內容已經做了一個明確的規定那經濟部也在106年電業法修正以後直接訂定了一個執法這個執法是公共收入電業電價費率的計算公式 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2696.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2718.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那他就是延續了104年立法院電價公司跟審議會的機制的辦法來做執行那第二個部分就是我們這一次整個電價的調整方案那我們再考慮到有政府的補助那有部分的電費的合理調整以及台電公司專業成本三個方向上審議會決議平均電價條幅約是11% |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2722.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2738.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那在各類的用戶調整方案事實上我想我們做了很多細緻的考慮也感謝審議會針對這些方案提出了非常多的意見那首先包括民生住宅小商店的用電採取較低的條幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2741.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2759.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那採用電會依照經營狀況跟用電規模採取不同的條幅那比較重要的就是原來在審議會審議前住宅用戶330度以下以及小店家700度以下原來在審議的時候提案是要微調5% |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2761.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2762.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那經過審議會的審議把它降成微調3%那其他相關的各個級距的條幅就請參考我們的書面資料那關於產業用戶的部分那我們是考慮了不同的用電規模以及它的經營狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2777.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2796.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那我們將年用5億度電而且兩年用電平均正成長的公司按用電的規模採取一定級距的不同用電大的條幅比較大規模的這樣子的方式來進行那150億度以上用電者最高的條幅可以達到25倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2799.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2820.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那除了此之外就是IDC針對我們的資料中心我們在年用電0.5億度以上的資料中心我們也是採一定的級距那超過3億度以上的呢會調漲25%那產業用電成長我們也把它給分群就是說如果2023年下半年用電成長的我們會調14%衰退 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2822.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2826.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
或者是沒有成長達到10%的調12%衰退10%以上的調漲7%委員會也採納了很多在電價審議的期間的討論意見所以我們在農漁業、學校跟社福團體這一次審議的結果都是維持動漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2847.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2875.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那維持動長也希望神音會也表達了一個寄件希望能夠這一些屬於政策性要去支持的相對比較弱勢或者是政策性需要的一些產業能夠採取編列預算的方式來做補貼那這一次的電價調整因為比較細緻化所以對物價的影響我們是認為相對比較和緩那剛才央行總裁以及主席總長都已經有跟各位做過報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2876.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2903.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那我在這邊用電費的部分來做一些例子來跟大家做說明那這一段時間以來台電公司事實上有針對各種不同用電規模以及用電型態的用戶他的電費做了一些相關的試算那在今天我們的報告裡面提供的書面的報告裡面有將這一些用戶的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2905.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2923.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
最高可能會繳的一些電費以及最高級距可能在平均狀況下他可能會負擔多少費用提供了一個檢表公委員會做參考那簡單來跟各位報告就是屬於住宅用電的如果你的電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2924.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2931.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
如果你的電費是每個月在650塊以下講簡單一點就是你拿到電費單是在1300塊以下的那一個月調整的幅度不會超過30元 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2940.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2964.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我要在這邊特別再跟各位委員做一次報告因為我們的電費單拿到我們看到的數字跟台電公司這一段時間對外說明會有一點點落差是因為我們這些表登的用戶兩個月才收一次電費所以看到的金額事實上是兩個月的電費那要把它除以二才會比較接近你每個月的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2965.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2982.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那因為這段時間以來台電一直對外的說明都是每個月我想今天在這個委員會的現場也特別再一次做出澄清如果你直接拿出你粉紅色的那個電費單如果你用台電的APP的話那個電費單上面看到的那個費用一定都是兩個月的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2983.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3007.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以大概除以2比較接近是你一個月的平均費用那用這樣子來算也比較知道說你大概是落在哪一個級距裡面那我們簡單來講1000度以下你用滿1000度一個月你的電費增加不會超過200塊那1000度以1000度的用電你如果在你的電費單看到的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3008.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3012.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
就是你兩個月加起來如果沒有超過7000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3014.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3041.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
如果沒有超過7000塊你每個月的平均電費不會增加超過200塊這個是我們今天在這邊跟委員報告的時候特別再一次清楚的做澄清至於1000度以上也只有1000度以上的電費會有比較高的累進費率用電超過1000度以上的住宅事實上它的佔比大概只有2% |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3044.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3058.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
關於大家比較關心的就是一般的小商店的用戶那小商店的用戶大概62%6成以上他的每個月用電事實上是在700度以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3059.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3077.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那他的電費單呢你大概看到他的電費單就是一個一起來不會超過4000塊平均每個月大概2000多那他的電費調整每個月不會增加超過60元那這一些比例佔了62%那3000度以下佔94% |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3079.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3093.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
站百分之九十四那三千度以下的用電的電費大概是這樣就是你兩個月的電費單來如果沒有超過兩萬五千塊那他大概一個月增加的電費不會超過八百塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3094.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3109.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我想說在這邊再一次跟委員做一次仔細的報告因為我們之前的說明上面我們是用每月來做標準跟電費單看到的兩個月收費一次或許有一些不同所以在這邊再一次跟委員做詳細的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3111.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3126.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那我要在這邊跟委員會報告說這一次審議會事實上我們有學者專家有工商團體的代表也有消費者的代表跟工部門的代表一起在做會議的討論那做出來的決議我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3127.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3127.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3158.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3167.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
現在在詢答委員8加2列席委員5加110點截止發言登記請第一位林德福林委員質詢謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3182.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3208.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
楊總裁還有朱主計長還有這個曾次長還有一位各列席官員是不是請總裁楊總裁請楊總裁總裁早我請教因為電價大漲和央行升息兩個決策是不是對物價波動都有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3209.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3222.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
你認為呢?我覺得會有影響但是是溫和的那兩者對物價波動來說到底是因還是什麼?什麼是不是果? |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3225.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3232.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我想呢這個電價調漲呢他是有他的道理有他的道理就是因為電價調漲那當然就是說你看看就是說專業銀行調升了就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3243.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3246.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那你認為電價大漲跟這個升息兩個是不是根本就是互為因果?我想這個應該是這麼說就是說因為電價調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3272.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3292.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我們相關的單位都會調升我們的對通膨的那您為了就是要抑制通膨嗎所以說我們不是說抑制通膨而是要抑制通膨的那個的那個他的那個就是說他的那個就是那個預期的心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3292.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3315.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
對啦就是說因為考量到電價調漲後恐怕會形成較高的通膨預期所以央行決定升息我跟委員再說一次在我們的報告裡面我們這裡重點在第三頁這裡邊我們報告講得很清楚主要目的就是希望能夠穩定物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3316.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3343.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
就是因為你升息辦碼是不是這樣子達到整體經濟金融穩健的發展是不是這樣子那個總裁貨幣政策緊縮踩煞車那高通盆更難急退但是升息如果過了頭對整個經濟恐怕又陷入會衰退那請問總裁央行這次升息的決策會不會讓原本緊急開始緩轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3346.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3355.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那平穩的互輸這樣的速度會變得更緩慢會不會?應該也不會啦因為基本上我們的經濟成長率我們是3.22今年是3.22那主計總處是3.4級那基本上3.4級3.22這個還算是還溫和的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3368.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3385.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那這一次的那個的那個的利率調整對我們的經濟的成長基本上他的影響不會很大那我請教那個總裁升息意志通膨預期的心理是不是你認為一定有效會不會失靈啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3387.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3406.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以我們就是說我們會密切注意因為央行是不是只有繼續升息意圖還是有其他的辦法來解決呢?我想就政府的有一個就是說是那個穩定物價的小組我覺得啊那從供給面來著手那是很有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3407.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3433.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那個總裁因為幾乎全世界都在降息那為了我們要抑制通膨所以說你又提升辦碼升息總裁因為主計總處年初在評估我國沒有所謂的通膨現象那請問總裁為什麼沒有通膨的現象民眾你認為會出現通膨疫情的心理難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3435.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3439.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所有的民眾心理上都出現了幻覺嗎?你的看法呢?總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3452.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3478.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
是不是這幾年的物價上漲、超乎預期以導致民眾認定通膨會越來越厲害還是物價上漲根本就是一直都存在?你的看法呢?這一次的通膨是很特殊啦是很特殊你看從COVID-19開始、二屋戰爭然後美國的Bottlenecks這些都導致了通膨就 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3480.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3506.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
還有包括就是說COVID-19解封了以後這個需求就上升總裁因為過去政府的態度就是冷處理也遇到選舉以至於現在電價的調漲更加劇推升所有物價接力的上漲才讓央行必須來升息來緩和這些通膨的問題你的看法呢我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3506.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3521.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
就是說剛剛經濟部他也報告得很清楚第一個他這個電價的調整他是每年都有一定的機制的都有一定的機制他3月然後9月或10月這個是他一定的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3522.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3544.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
至於就是說我剛剛還是一直在強調就是說我們的通膨相較其他國家來講都是溫和的溫和的那只是說這幾次是比較特殊他特殊就是說我們的通膨連續幾年都是高於2%所以中央銀行才要就是說而且我們的升息說實在是很溫和的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3546.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3565.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
升息政策對抗通膨預期的心理但是升息也加重了借貸資金以及成本或借貸主還款的壓力現在行政院又提出針對部分民眾貸款的一些負擔決議由政府來全額補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3566.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3583.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
對於政府這樣左手決策升息右手來補貼貸款的利息的負擔這樣的一個做法請問總裁你認為會不會讓央行在整個抗通膨的目的會打折扣會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3585.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3595.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
基本上我是覺得是說專案銀行我們如果說要對抗這個通膨疫情我們做一個緩和升息政府為了照顧這些就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3604.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3620.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
他這個呢也是屬於那個什麼健全房屋荒案裡面的一環那如果說政府做這一件事呢事實上也是在那一環的裡面但是你認為這樣會不會打折扣呢這個可能要密切的去注意四月電價調漲漲電價的年齡已經啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3628.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3658.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
在發酵那大眾運輸當中像台鐵高鐵啊公路客運啊隨時都運量啊來提高票價那請問總裁你認為漲電價配套升息的做法真的能夠抑制並限縮物價上漲連理效應的擴大嗎你認為我跟委員報告基本上即使我們升息即使電價上漲不過呢我們的通膨率呢還是持續在下降的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3659.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3660.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
昨年每輪經常性的薪資平均到45496實質的總薪資為58545元剔除物價因素後 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3683.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3697.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
雙雙互成長其中實施總薪資不僅是七年來首度的衰退減乎百分之零點一點零四更創11年來最大學者都認為去年通膨率較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3698.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3712.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
把明目、薪資吃掉外家、外食、租屋費用增幅很高讓壽星階級貧窮這些貧窮感尤其深刻那你問今年這個薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3714.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3734.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
下滑貧窮感持續存在的機率總裁你認為發生機率高不高啊我想是這樣在上年上年的委員都知道就是說各主要的國家就是他升息的幅度都非常高整個全球的那個需求就下降下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3735.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3760.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那下降下來的時候導致我們的出口不好去年呢我們的出口就只有那個什麼只有我們的出口只有那個那個那個那個只有一個一個就電子啊資通訊資通訊資通訊資通訊比較好其他的連我們電子電子業也不是很好其他的更不用說所以呢他的薪資就被壓制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3761.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3789.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
假如去年是特殊的狀況因為我們出口不好那今年這種狀況持續發生請問總裁是不是代表軍公教今年調薪4%能夠能沒有辦法來對抗同盟以下的物價飆漲我在想就是說今年因為我們就經濟成長率我們就是說估計就3%以上嘛那另外一個是調薪嘛那慢慢的就是說我們的經濟成長會好的時候呢那他的薪資也會調高 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3790.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3793.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
總裁,您說向電價調漲可能使通膨預期心理形成推高通膨率而通膨率持續的高檔消費者將較強烈感受物價普遍的上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3812.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3839.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那廠商則意為為了維持他利潤而平緩的調升售價產生通膨預期的制約不利物價的穩定然而通膨預期效果大小應該和當下的通膨環境直接有關在高通膨的環境下則通膨預期教育形成這個通膨效果也比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3840.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3846.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那較難以來評估那問不問總裁如果以台灣這10年的薪資跟物價比 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3848.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3876.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
是不是可以推定是朝高通盆的環境方向在前進是不是這樣子基本上我們也做過研究如果說以這2015年2017年以來事實上我們的經濟成長率比美國比日本比南韓都好而我們的實質薪資也比美國跟日本都好但是對跟南韓來比較我們數大一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3878.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3893.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我最後一點總裁在這個時機點政府明知電價調漲會影響這麼大那為什麼不補貼台電多一點減少全面性的這些漲電價的通膨衝擊況且在經濟處於復甦起步的階段來採取溫和升息難道就能夠減低這幾年物價上漲的環境下民眾對未來的高通膨環境的預期嗎你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3907.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3908.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
下一位質詢請吳秉瑞吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3942.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3944.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
主席麻煩請經濟部曾次長請曾次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3955.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3982.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
市長早安市長早我這幾天看到媒體他都拿那個烤麵包店麵包店的那個例子說會有的會漲一萬多塊我看那個例子仔細看那個內容他說原來的電價七萬多塊有可能會漲到八萬多塊那他說這個例子還是台電這邊提供的那我現在想請教你原來如果是繳七萬多塊的話他原來是要用多少度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3984.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3998.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
你知道嗎?7萬多塊的話應該他就不是我們原來舉例的那個例子就是說他漲幅會比較小的7萬多塊的例子大概已經是2萬度電了他不會去選擇表登營業 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4000.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4017.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
就是有累進費率那一段我想說委員我很快把這事情解釋一遍第一個事情就是台電是為了要解釋說我們一般民生跟小店家他事實上是累進費率所以他就選了一個例子出來在小店家的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4018.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4038.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那你如果是用表登的這種費率他就他有累進費率所以他才會就是說你因為我們看到的例子他的用電幅度不會很大烘焙不會在這裡面他是麵包的行銷的店面但後來我們知道這個事情不夠嚴謹那就把烘焙的拿出來做了另外一次的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4039.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4055.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
一個月要用到2萬多度電的烘焙它的出產量正常來講是多少?它是小店家嗎?幾乎是會不會是另外一種小工廠?我這樣說我們現在有很多就是生產跟店面其實分離的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4056.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4082.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那這個已經是一個比較集中生產麵包的店那我們知道現在非常多麵包店是連鎖的所以他有的是有中央廚房在所以我們看到的大概的狀況會是如此那我們也說了後來也在台電公司也做了一個新的說明就是類似這樣低壓的低壓的用電營業用電事實上建議他採時間電價因為我們現在時間電價如果三段式的你只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4085.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4110.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
當晚16點到晚上22點就是4點到10點這段時間盡量減少用電電費可以節約非常多我想說這邊特別跟委員做報告第二個是現在調整4月又要調整但是夏季電價馬上又要來了夏季電價本來就讓人家很有感像我的服務處是沒有在營業的但是上班時間他們就是要開門服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4111.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4124.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那夏季就是電價就是一直吹啊所以那個我每兩個月光一個我有三個服務處光一個服務處的電價就好幾萬了那夏季要來了會不會讓大家感受更深啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4125.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4141.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
跟委員報告就是說因為我們現在電價的電價調漲的機制就是4月跟10月兩次那4月調過了以後當然接下來5月的下半月就開始進入下季電價的計費期間它確實會有一定程度的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4142.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4157.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是比率還是相同的嗎?但是夏季用電通常它的用電度會比較多我跟委員報告就是我們現在對外宣布的就是每一度電的價格平均價格事實上它是整個年度平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4157.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4168.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
就是你夏季事實上繳的比較多,冬季會繳的比較,冬季就會繳的比較少,它是整年平均的一個觀念。住宅的部分是,那上開在住宅區的服務處呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4181.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4196.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
他也是一樣要這樣子的觀念阿委員你這樣講啦就是說如果是服務處大概不會去選擇營業用電所以應該是我如果沒有錯阿你應該還是用住宅用電住宅用電就是住宅用電是有累進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4197.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4217.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
對阿另外你的電如果沒有用智慧電表你可以分得出來是哪個時間用的電嗎這個部分就是我們現在也在倡導的就是如果說你要更瞭解你自己的用電那你比方說服務處如果他的用電規模可能會超過700度或超過1000度那來裝置智慧電表 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4217.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4246.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
經過一定的評估看看選擇時間電價會不會比較好這個是我們是鼓勵的因為未來的用電必須要更多的那個就是說它會隨著不同的時間會有不同的價格其實時間電價這件事台灣在推動上相較於其他國家已經有一點點慢了所以這幾年我們也都加強的在宣導跟推動這一個工作那申請智慧電表不用額外再花錢嗎是的申請智慧電表不需要額外再花錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4247.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4256.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那台電會負擔嘛對不對應該就是這樣子對是由整個台電來負擔好那請回座請中央銀行楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4266.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4280.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
吳委員早上次我在這邊跟你請教過就是說我聽過總體經濟學的學者他們認為說一個國家的CPI最好的標準性是2%超過3%他把它定義為高通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4283.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4300.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
第一百分之一他認為那也不可取那有可能會有通縮的危險像日本前面幾十年就陷入這樣的危機所以上次好像你也同意這樣子的看法那所以如果是這樣子照今年的主計處的預估還有你們的預估都是2.0幾或是2.1幾其實是蠻符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4304.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4329.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這樣子的觀念其實我覺得國人的觀念要改變這個需要你們大力的來從整體經濟學的角度跟大家說明不然大家想到說CPI上漲就以為是通膨了不是喔CPI的溫和上漲以2%作為標準是最符合現在國際之間的需要的你完全CPI沒有上漲會有限度通縮通縮就很慘了現在中國就是通縮 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4330.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4352.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以中國的狀況經濟狀況就非常的慘了是沒有錯好另外我又看到一個觀念就是說以美國為例那美國的他的這個通膨他基本上分成三大類塊第一部分是原料他認為大概占20%第二部分是租金的部分他認為30%第三項就是服務的項目他占50%那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4355.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4357.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
臺灣這個時代我是覺得大家都是從一個角度看問題應該想得比較完全面一點之前大家都講說工資不漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4373.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4388.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
對國人很不好對這個壽星階級是不公平可是當工資帳如果以美國的觀念他是站在前面50%工資帳CPI的這個增加是對他們來講是增加最多的對不對是沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4389.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4403.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那電池其實包括在原料的20%裡面它的占比相對是比較低的那你剛剛談到一再談到這個通膨預期一個做到的問題是如果大家都在講說要漲要漲這個要漲那個要漲那媒體也是這樣說因為電價要漲所有物資都要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4408.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4429.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
其實我認為如果大家眾口塑金反而是增加通膨預期的一個原因沒有錯那個委員說的很有道理所以我是覺得你一再在這邊苦口婆心那是因為你很溫和你的講法媒體不會採取你的講法媒體可能就講說啊就是要漲因為他這樣他要點月率嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4431.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4454.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
他要點業率他要越聳動越好啊所以你看他就說這個小店家會漲一萬多塊啦然後這個哪一個地方又要漲價現在舉一個例子一蘭拉麵啊他有澄清說他是早就已經有漲價的計畫然後現在因為剛好這個時間點他又把他歸咎說這個店家要漲所以一蘭拉麵要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4455.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4472.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以就是說通膨預期就是大家這樣共同累積出來的是所以呢也就是說政府在行政方面呢也要做一些的行動也就是說不能讓就是說廠商稍微媒體一直就是說要漲價要我是建議應該是在這邊呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4478.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4501.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
經濟部長所講的就是你這個電價的漲價到底照站他原料的比例是多少如果不合理的上漲那個才可怕但是如果要調高工資因為台灣一直被詬病說基本工資低調高工資而導致的這個CPI的上漲反而應該國人要樂觀其成代表大家的收入增加所以CPI會上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4502.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4511.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
是不是這樣子的觀念呢?那這個當然我也是提供一部分的觀點你們的理事會在上個禮拜就升息了半碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4513.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4535.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在你的報告裡面講說這也是因為要溫和的去緊縮這個台幣那再加上現在的股市這幾天都是很穩健兩萬多點嘛那外資也都一直買超所以外資要進來也是應該要美金要進來可是你縮表你的資金縮少照理來講新台幣要走強才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4536.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4564.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
結果相反的新台幣對美元在這幾個禮拜還是一樣弱勢甚至貶了更多你不覺得這中間跟你的目的跟這個中間有一點點落差嗎我想我也藉這個機會跟委員報告事實上最近因為就是說美元都強了那不只是說是臺灣臺幣貶值事實上你看看韓元日元日本也就提高利率結果他更更更貶 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4565.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4571.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
韓元的幅度都比台灣還大人民幣的幅度都比台灣還大人民幣的幅度都比台灣還大人民幣的幅度都比台灣還大人民幣的幅度都比台灣還大 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4591.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4591.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
現在質詢請賴世保、賴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4634.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4639.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請央行總裁楊金龍請楊總裁我想先請問你你升息其實跟世界的趨勢是剛好相反特別跟美國美國要降息我們要升息是不是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4664.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4691.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
美國因為幾次大的升息把通貨膨脹壓到一定的程度了他們現在基本貸款利率基本的利率還有5%喔對我們基本還不到2%嘛 是不是結果我們現在升息所以到過來我們要升息他們要降息他們聽說要降息全世界其他國家現階段幾乎都降息那壓完等於逆勢而行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4692.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4714.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
主要是物價嗎是不是?不是當然我現在要再稍微說明在我們的表裡面各位可以看到事實上其他的國家就是升息的幅度而且非常快中央銀行在升息是慢慢的那這個原因是在於就是說主要國家它的通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4716.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4737.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
到8%、9%那我們的通膨都很溫和都是在2%左右那你很溫和就不用升息啦還要升息那現在就是說慢慢的我們是慢慢的升息是否已經升破了你擔心楊金龍的CPI防線就是2% |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4737.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4741.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
主要的是因為我們有4年連續大概4年都有2%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4762.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4766.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4792.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4796.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我跟委員報告基本上中央銀行我們都認為0到2%我們都可以接受通膨0到2%我們都可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4816.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4835.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
阿珊不能接受了阿珊啊要再看情況,像美國你看看8%,9%然後呢他一直降下來他要到2026年他才能夠達到2%那我們現在呢已經差不多也達到快20%年代能夠接受我就覺得奇怪了,那不是等於通說你都可以接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4836.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4859.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
因為您的話呢 只要你不要就像日本這樣好 如果啦 如果你說 物價溫和上升喔 這個其實每次打嘴巴啦 物價溫和上升就不需要升息了啦升息造成房貸支出增加 造成租屋主的負擔增加 那6月份你接著海改會 有沒有可能再升息 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4860.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4881.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我想我們的利率的水準當然第一個我們的利率水準跟其他先進國家不要講那麼多你回答我簡單回答我第二個我們的利率到目前的政策利率跟15年前的最高的高點差不多了那我先問你一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4882.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4897.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
如果物價持續上漲,3月份也是超過3,4月份也接近3,5月份也差不多3左右,那是不是6月份就會升息?我跟你講,給我講意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4898.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4913.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
可能性可以嗎?我想這個可能性不高啦 可能性不高?像萬路起漲還不高?我想是基本上呢 電價一漲已經增加了CPI 增加了 去年他也是這樣 我記得那個電價他前一波是8% 然後再過來是11% 那這一次也是11% 那這一次事實上也溫和的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4926.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4948.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以那你意思就是6月份不會升息啦我想我們的利率水準到目前也算是高點啦因為15年前的好 從你這句話利率現在屬於高點我講你不要插嘴喔6月份相對的利率也高點所以呢它上去機率不大 下來機率大 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4950.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4964.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
啊下來的機率不大因為基本上呢目前因為我們的我們的吃貧機率大不會就是說你也不能就是說不上就是要下來也不是這麼多邏輯不上不下等於不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4968.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4985.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們理事會的記者會我們也都一直認為到目前為止我們的政策﹖好你暫停舞台的時間了我剛才問那個朱正民請問兩岸緊張你先不要上來還沒有還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4988.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5001.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
總裁總裁我等你總裁我問你我問你請楊總裁然後朱主計長朱正平是旁邊stand by等一下等一下請朱主計長等一下等一下不要急不要急這個萬與兩昂打仗央行的外匯如何管制能不能告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5009.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5034.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我想齁,你這個題目是,你的這個題目是很大啦沒有,就是你給我時間,30秒就好了好不好,因為我要住在門內,你不要占用他的時間我想啊,央行會是情況啦齁,怎麼來外匯的管理當然他都會有,他都有階段他有條例,我連給你聽啦齁,你現在不要,今天奇怪你今天在那邊講一些五四三的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5035.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5058.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
根據管理外匯條例19條規定央行應請行政院通過進行外匯必要的管制措施就是緊急情況戰爭屬於緊急情況吧對那我們看烏克蘭戰爭一開始就採取匯率一概不動就固定匯率 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5059.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5064.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
總裁金龍、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、中央銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5078.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5096.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我想緊急當緊急命令下來的時候行政院要我們來怎麼來做我大概我們也可以做建議就像那個這個這個裡面剛剛你說的規定那當然就是說匯率是不是要固定匯率那當然我們到時候會來試情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5098.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5124.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
但是可能性之一,可能性之一嘛對,也是可能性之一啦可能性之一,管出不管進也是可能性之一也是啦,也是啦,看情況啦,看情況啦打仗當然是這樣子啦錢不要給他外流啊,人類不要給他外流啊,就是這樣啊搞在這裡受損啦,但是這樣錢,人都要留這裡啊有選擇我同意嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5126.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5126.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
主席主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5150.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5169.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因應戰爭有沒有暫時準備金?我們平常有沒有準備?沒有所謂暫時準備金不過我跟委員講根據那個相關的總統委員法的一個相關規定我們每年都會有一個說什麼預算的一個轉移的一個應變措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5170.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5186.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那個多少錢?那個是國防金幣我不能在這裡講我只能夠說我看到了數字啦我不是說是國防金幣但是最少媒體有揭露啦大概5、6千億台幣沒那麼多沒那麼多沒那麼多喔沒那麼多沒那麼多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5190.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5218.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
大概是總預算的不到百分之十楊總裁在你手裡其實外匯存底就是最好的戰爭準備是不是總裁總裁等一下一下好不好總裁外匯準備不是政府的錢來來來講一下是不是外匯準備可以拿來當政府準備可不可以雖然不是人民的錢但是是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5219.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5223.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我看到的數字是5400億、5600億結果我數計長說沒有這麼多喔5400億什麼概念才180億美金還是要怎麼修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5250.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5278.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
邀請回我請問主計長你知不知道現在臺鐵的便當一個多少錢臺鐵的便當一個大概便當臺鐵便當有那個比較貴的據我知道也有150塊也有大概沒有啦我們財委會每天在吃的我大概看臺鐵的便當我大概看你介紹啊你不吃啊沒有啊你們委員吃的比我們部會吃的好啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5281.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5309.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
欸你吃多少來來來來主計長你吃多少台鐵你吃便當多少錢請問你你的便當多少錢你的我的便當大概都是一百一百二一百二喔對不起我們吃的比你便宜然後拿來看台鐵便當一棟棟18塊那個一棟棟是有的那個貴的有一百五的我沒有吃過貴的喔那是最便宜的我知道可能再來吃一百五的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5311.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5339.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
財務委員會是一百五的公布答案我們財務委員會是一百塊全部一百塊啦沒有一百五的啦你這樣吃幣不懂得理解我們吃的比較好可見你吃的比我們好啦所以你吃的就比較稍微那個一點啦對不對你看那個人臉啊肉都跑出來了就是這樣八五塊啦八二塊我們一百啦財務委員會越吃越散你敢不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5340.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5343.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
總經理曾次長你們現在說平均電價一百趴攏月一月社組團體要動漲啦到底動漲是差不多少漲多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5368.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5382.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
跟委員報告就是說如果是只有局限在就是漁業、學校、社福然後9個月9個月因為我們現在一定年限算大概20幾億20幾億可是你們按照你們原來的計劃來講你們總共才省628億年底呢還是虧損100億喔累計虧損3800然後會到3900 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5395.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5395.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
立法院第1會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5416.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5427.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
來跟委員報告這兩個事情第一個事情就是說合適合適的一些再利用的等等的一些計劃我們有都一直在跟你實際的說出來好不好你告訴我告訴我那個簡單一點就是這一部分的認列要怎麼樣子認列 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5435.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5460.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
臺電的衡市場的處理我已經寫了主決議也經過本院大院的通過預算的時候通過適同法律說你們開始要去準備怎麼樣去處理臺電根據的市場供應價值他現在沒有價值因為已經確定不再啟用合適除非你們還要否則絕對不能放資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5461.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5480.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
否則絕對沒有這3823億的合作在裏面那你資本額現在在扣掉這個然後扣掉這個虧損做對息還要開股東大會還要增資啊那你知道現在資本額給你增到多少3300增到5800的那個主計長都清楚了我們要加一股500億對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5481.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5488.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
主計長還加一個1000億總共除了政治以外再加1500億台幣對不對我們到現在是說連4月1號這個總共會是4000億謝謝什麼什麼會議就是從我們從112、113以及現在4月1號我們總共會4000億我知道4000億裡面資本我多少啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5504.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5524.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
二千五所以一千五是給你補貼的嘛就可見的台電補貼很多那台電現在就很奇怪這個奇怪了你們要做一個好大的一個一個到處去好像是開始在洗腦啊說你們最好那個麵包啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5527.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5533.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
最好烤麵包時間規定在9點到17點這樣子電還可以省4萬也就是你們漲電價麵包電還賺電價世界都知道這個事這個東西笑死人了大家網路上當作一個笑柄哪一個白癡他有一個小編怎麼編這個東西你看了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5548.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5566.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那個我跟委員報告那個那一張圖卡解釋的是時間電價在一個假定的高用電戶的狀況下可以反映出來的狀況那我這樣講這一題主要的目的我想我要這樣子說明就是說現在烘焙房 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5566.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5566.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5585.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5612.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個是9點到17點等於說他晚一點你不能用早一點你不能用還用這個時間還可以賺4萬說台電得證了喔台電漲電價結果他賺電價這個東西這個邏輯根本沒有那麼複雜就是這個到底呼嚨百姓啊真的這個把百姓當作白痴一樣當作小孩子在看這個趕快撤掉很難看啊社長很難看 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5614.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5620.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
他請回謝謝我可以請楊總裁請楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5644.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5662.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
議員早總裁早安前一天上21號那一天關注到央行會後李建勢會後的記者會大家本來長期對於央行每一次開聯席會議李建勢會會後的記者會大家都會覺得不會有太多的意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5663.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5674.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那上週四下午我突然看到你們會議幾乎送到立法院來我剛好在辦公室我嚇了一跳我跟幾個好朋友在聊大家給你取了一個新的外號叫做Mr. |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5674.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5692.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
Price Surprise還好是升息半碼半碼其實對於經濟的成長也是有相當的衝擊我升息一碼的話我想衝擊就會更多總裁你對這個外號你會不會很反感 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5695.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5701.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
市場要這麼說當然市場有他的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5715.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5733.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
經濟能夠持續的穩定我們當然希望CPI也可以維持在一定的大家人民跟央行可以接受的程度我也關注到你們提到就是說在會議紀錄也提到說物價漲幅維持在2%就是2%左右就是升息循環的尾聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5734.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5755.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
但是我也看到部分理事在會議記錄也提到說這個物價的波動包括對於外食族的影響包括對這個租屋族的影響是不是能夠維持在警戒2%的這個警戒線其實大家還是有很多的問號那現在外界都把今年CPI控制在2%左右視為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5757.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5773.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5774.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5775.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
臺灣民眾跟你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5793.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5794.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
如果今年夏季我們的通膨持續非常嚴重到2.5、2.6、2.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5816.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5832.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那是不是我們會持續的升息?不會喔因為我剛剛已經在講了就是說是長期嘛中長期因為我跟委員報告事實上阿美國到2026年的時候呢他才會到達2026年 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5836.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5851.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以美國有不斷的升息當然升息對於我們經濟會有一定的衝擊他是一個手段所以這是你重要的工作到底要不要升這個是你重要的手段貨幣政策緊縮的手段所以我才提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5853.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5874.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
兩趴是人民可以接受但是如果超過兩趴因為美國的通膨也非常的嚴重所以他不斷透過升息的手段來處理嘛那所以我才提到說所以你預估今年不管通膨再怎麼樣到達三趴我不希望到達三趴但是萬一如果是人民不可以接受通膨漲到人民沒有辦法接受你也不會再升息 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5878.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5897.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以我們在報告裏面講的很清楚就是說我們這次升息第一個原因是因為我們以前升息都很溫和的不像美國這樣先進國家因為我時間沒有很多我只要問結論就是說你是不是無論通膨再怎麼漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5898.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5917.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
你也不會再升了那就是說如果說它是短暫的那沒關係啊長期之間都是我剛剛也是在講就是說你長期平均是在2%我們都可以接受的所以你的長期我講到下半年如果下半年到3 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5918.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5928.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
不過如果說我們今年他會不會是短期長期因為你這一次台電的漲價是民生用電也漲1000之前是民生本身沒有怎麼漲如果說今年還能夠就今年的通膨還是3%的時候呢那就另當別論了 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5934.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5949.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
好嘛對嘛這就是因為總裁主計長也請上來因為我也關注到這一次用電漲幅是全部都漲包括民生用電也漲也就是說漲一塊錢我關注到你的報告裡面無論是直接影響或者間接影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5951.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5951.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
總裁你可以請回,第二個我要請問一下主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5972.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5993.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我關注到這個王美花部長之前在爭取波普台電的這個稅計剩餘他本來是希望能夠爭取1500億那以降低我們電價的漲幅那最後我看到媒體上您說我們要稍微計算一下因為到底明年剩下多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5993.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6015.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
稅基剩餘剩下多少錢還不確定最後是我們決定撥補一千億那我們從2020年開始我們已經撥補勞保年金有將近到2024年已經有2670億我們到底今年勞保年金已經撥補一千億我們最後已經撥補一千億稅基剩餘已經撥補一千億給台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6019.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6044.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
那我們剩下來的到底要撥補多少給勞保年金那個跟那個委員報告一下齁勞保今年齁連連那個公屋預算連醫後特別預算我們是總共補出1300億到1300億那1300億啊那個我跟那個委員報告一下那個不是用所謂的這個的稅計剩餘是用那個上一次的那個醫後特別預算就有準備的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6045.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6049.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以跟這一次的那個稅基剩餘1500億無關那我們現在願予預估我們稅基剩餘本來有1500億那1000億撥給台電我們差不多剩下500億左右嘛對不對阿你500億要怎麼贏你是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6062.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6086.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
怎麼處理?是留給下一任行政院長來處理?還是留給下一任行政院長來處理?那個整個稅基剩餘就是進到國庫那跟明年的稅收他是統收統支原則上是統收統支統收統支的話就並沒有說一個稅基剩餘是用在哪一個地方一個稅基剩餘用在哪一個地方沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6088.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6112.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
目前想法到底要放在目前我們這個500億就是說我們放在留給下一任的行政院長、主計長來決定你有沒有建議?這個也是交通很重要的嘛是由整個主計的制度決定沒有用完的就是留在一個國庫裡面下一年度編預算的時候由下一任的下一任的行政院長、主計長來決定對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6114.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6130.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
不是,那個主計長只是說對啦,那就是有主計長可以建議嘛主計長因為各單位都在爭取嘛對不對對阿他們是要爭取他們的預算如果你還留在位置上的話就可能是你嘛所以那老保年金現在老保基金還不知道會撥補多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6131.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6146.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
老保基金我們希望在我們財政的能力情況之下我們都會是怎麼樣致應他我們現在的策略就是多少主計長因為我時間有限我今天要等一下罵台電一下來到底撥補多少還不知道沒有台電很難沒有想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6146.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6174.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們的想法是說不要讓台電的那個基金有減少的情況他現在的基金大概是有……台電每年都撥補一千億給他所以我才問說那勞保基金也很缺阿都很缺阿我剛才講說的是勞保的基金我們現在是有大概九千億我們希望這個基金能夠越來越多讓他能夠錢滾錢產生更多的利息讓勞保基金能夠更多那到底撥補多少有沒有想法沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6174.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6175.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以老闆基金也不知道要撥補多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6190.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6191.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
經濟部這兩天每天做了很多的梗圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6219.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6237.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對民眾來講百功百業當然我們不希望漲但是後續對於通膨的衝擊影響從主計處來我們看一下我們的表這兩天包括院長在院會回應還有你們都在對外講說衝擊不大啦可以夏日用時間用電你們可以省多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6238.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6251.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
從主計總處的預估跟央行的預估我們無論直接衝擊跟間接衝擊每一塊錢用電衝擊的影響人民要付出的代價從主計處的影響是3.6倍從央行的數字上它衝擊的影響是6.75倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6260.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6273.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這個是我覺得後續對通膨影響最大的主要原因這也是為什麼上個星期央行要升息的最主要的因素百光百業都有可能漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6275.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6301.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
百公白都有可能漲所以你們現在不斷的說現在漲是有部分因素是因為我們要撥補給台電部分因素是我們因為國際的所有的燃料的價格都在漲事實上國際的燃料價格並沒有漲我們已經恢復到疫後的相關的國際的水準那另外通膨的影響包括間接的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6303.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6326.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
在百公百業當中其實是衝擊是大的王美花說我要去做雞茶看看誰有誰變長很多麵店直接回你說那我就乾脆直接關門就算了你現在告訴我你有什麼樣的手段可以讓大家不要講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6327.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6328.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
數字都是主計處跟央行提供的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6355.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6377.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以為什麼會有漸漸影響?用電漲幅一塊錢人民要付出的成本跟代價其實都是3.6倍跟6.75倍這樣我們才會外界才會說通膨劑算快到來就是有你這種硬凹的次長就是有王美花跟你這種硬凹的次長不知人民幾國的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6379.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6401.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你們去看看外面老百姓過得多辛苦民眾過得辛苦我回答您剛才講的那個圖卡那個圖卡講的是一年12個月累積可能可以節省的費用不是一個月我想說我稍微做一個說明這樣會比較清楚那你的意思是說民眾以後半夜師傅要早一點早提早5、6個小時去看看麵糰提早炸去配合你用電的時間來烤麵包 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6407.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6407.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
下一位質詢請郭國文郭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6442.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6443.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
謝謝主席有請楊金龍、楊總裁請楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6453.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6474.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
國文早總裁好總裁剛剛本席在聆聽你在回答的這個內容當中有特別強調之所以會有這一個升息這一個半碼的這個部分主要是來自於這幾年我們的CPI都超過2%以上特別是前年到2.95去年是2.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6478.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6500.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
您在理事會之後也特別強調說今後的實質負利率會朝趨正的方向來進行但雖然現在還是負利率所以我覺得你特別提到這一點的部分是會有考量到除了物價的因素之外實質的負利率也會造成定存期 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6501.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6501.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
一個投資人他的一個對於風險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6519.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6547.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
對於風險的承受程度他會有他自己的考量是那麼定存有定存他的那你是在談個金我是在跟你談總金啊不那也一樣啊就是說在整個金融穩定上面一大頓一窩蜂就像你說的那個陽權現象的部分啊對啊你是不是有考慮到這一點啊本席在就教於你你說我們升息是不是對對有沒有考慮到這一點我想不是升息的整個的主要的還是通膨啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6548.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6563.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
還是通膨所以說還是CPI的部分對還是CPI的部分可是你如果說CPI的部分那本席就較於你的CPI的部分對那剛剛你在回答這相關委員的時候在CPI的部分當中我們就以為啦這個我們如果升息的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6563.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6565.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
臺幣會跟著升值因為相對美元強勢的關係臺幣不斷的走貶今天早上的時候還跑到31.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6580.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6582.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
對我們的通膨是不是會有加劇的效果嗎?也不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6608.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6613.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我跟委員報告我們從我們的美元計價的進口物價跟新台幣計價的那個進口物價指數都是負的已經好幾個月都是負的 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6627.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6649.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
都是負的?都是負的。那是美元啊?沒有沒有,當用美元計價的也是負。用新台幣計價的也是負的。所以說相對進口還是便宜?還是便宜。所以說這個部分的費率走貶沒有什麼關係?不會。所以現階段你就說有可能的狀況就是主計處理所所談到的這個國際原物料的這個部分還是居高不下的因素。 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6650.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6678.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
還有另外媒體有可能不斷的這個造成這一種報導或者是相對有炒作的一種現象的情況底下會產生預期心理還主要是預期嘛那問題是在於說同樣是可以用預期的方式為什麼美國的FDA的部分偶爾都放一下說他預期可能會降息他預期可能會升息可是對於這個我們總裁的口中好像也聽不到什麼預期 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6679.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6705.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我意思是說你有沒有可能用預期來打預期啊?我跟委員報告就是說美國他的預期呢他也有點證圖點證圖就是他的預期啦就是說他的那個for guidance但是呢他的for guidance是在他QE的時候所實行的事實上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6708.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6733.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
有幾次很明白喔總裁有幾次很明白喔他預計比如講他說要降三波這個很清楚啊您的報告當中啊您的報告當中寫的都相對非常的保守就你會持續去觀察對對對對對你只是希望第二點持續觀察我想這樣是才對的啦你的第一點你的第一點呢你要肯定穩定物價小組進行很多措施有效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6734.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6736.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我沒有說完全沒有用我沒有說完全沒有用那也是用到緊繃的嘛所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6754.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6782.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那個有用不是說沒有用但是還是還是上升嘛所以說也是因為這樣上升你才會升息不是嗎而且總裁你升息不只一次欸那我們升息的弧度還是相對穩定還是相對溫和的啊你知道你就溫和漸進的方式嘛但是站在民眾的角度來看的話老實說我還是建議說你可以稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6783.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6783.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
另外一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6806.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6822.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
為什麼這種預期的預期會這樣子的令人家產生沒有辦法預期的CPI你知道嗎你去看一下你自己在報告當中所寫的核心的品項當中過去6年在半年內調整就佔5.9%兩年以上是35.8%也就是說以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6828.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6851.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
在CPI在調漲的時候物價在調漲的時候是緩緩的那為什麼大家會覺得加劇呢因為CPI不是只有看幅度而已還要看整個這個調漲的這個頻率啊這個頻率上在2021到2023的時候你看小於半年39.7塊4成半年到一年是35.2這都是央行的報告加總起來是75% |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6856.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6874.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
就是說商品的這個調降的幅度高達7乘5那個週期頻率呢從原來兩年調升變半年變一年我覺得那個總裁這個感受上是非常對民眾來說是切身的感受你認為有什麼方法來處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6874.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6893.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我覺得委員是講的沒有錯不過這個就是我們的報告裡面的你引用那是沒有錯但是我跟委員報告你如果說仔細再觀察一下事實上我們的17項的重要民生物資事實上也是持續在下來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6894.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6901.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
沒有我現在那個總裁不好意思我給你打斷我在講東你在講西我們都在講物價那你在講物價我在講一個立法院的三寶的雞排價格就好過往呢立法院的雞排要漲個五塊錢我們要超過60個月後來變41個月後來37個月最近兩年都調漲都是在14個月就調漲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6922.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6942.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
就是說從一個總體的你的數字還有整個立法院的單一的這個個案來看比較的話都是這種呈現啊那我問你的是solution不是你跟我比較其他的現象這個問題在民眾當中的感受壓力很大啊這個我同意委員的看法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6942.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6964.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
也就是說民眾對於時常購買的啊因為他跟民生有關所以他他對但是我我要跟我要跟委員報告就是說事實上呢全球的中央銀行呢他是看整體的啦我當然知道他不是說看一個雞排是多少那蛋價是多少他不會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6965.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6989.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我好像要問主計長才對齁 不應該問你齁 但是問題是說 我是說這個趨勢上在平穩物價的部分啦 限制上的物價平率上的問題剛剛我也跟委員報告就是說事實上17項的民生物品也是在持續在下降啊 那你那個就是說每月每月至少購買的次數比較多的 那事實上它也是一直在下降啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6990.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6993.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7020.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7042.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員長市長這次是調帳好像看起來是逼不得已以前呢過去我們財政委員會所看到的那個稅基剩餘有撥補500億到台電嘛是第二次撥補1000億嘛沒有第二次還沒有第二次還沒有第二次有預期嗎我們有跟院裡面做報告對我知道第二次要1000啦我的目標價是1000這樣500加10001500然後再加上調這樣有解決了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7048.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7063.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
國際政策負擔台電所造成的虧損的擬評了嗎?公委員報告就是說那個500億是去年的我們現在要處理的是2024年的原來我這樣子講就是1000億給我們再加上電價的調整那我也會努力來 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7068.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7069.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
兩年以後才會損益打平 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7083.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7109.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我跟委員報告其實就要漲兩年之後你的損益可以打很多國家的電價我這樣子說就是很多國家的電價你這樣我可以理解啦我沒有懷疑你漲啦我是說我只是想要知道說你漲的這個效果漲成這樣子有沒有達到預期的目標當初他的政策負擔有沒有達成他的虧損有達到損益平衡沒有應該是接近可以損益不會有像去年這樣子虧損幅度這麼大也就是說你這兩年當中可以把 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7110.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7135.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那個漲價之後可以創造多少盈餘我就這樣問您好了還不至於創造盈餘但是可以創造盈餘就是創造增加多少收入600多億在今年2024年可以增加600多億那明年可以增加600多億總共增加1200多億然後再加上撥補1500億然後加起來剛好是2700多億就可以打平過去政策的負擔是不是我以為你剛才講的已經兩年了對兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7137.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7162.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
現在我們算的年度你要贏虧就是一定是一年一年我說你的政策負擔也是累積而來我算總數啦但是補助的只有一年他沒有年年有所以要算只能夠算電價的調整沒有辦法算補助所以你今年的電價調整可以讓台電增加六百多億的收入就是九個月對九個月六百多那九個月到明年的話那就增加更多啦八百一年八百那就這兩年可以增加大概一千五嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7164.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7188.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
就差不多了嗎?沒有,我就要問這個問題,原因是說你短期內就不會再漲了,是不是啦?我這樣子講,我們現在的價格...兩年之內就不會再漲了吧?這個事情不是很簡單的算法,就是他有沒有到這一次調漲有沒有到他的成本價,還沒有完全達到成本價。如果沒有達到成本價的話,本席最後給你一個建議,真的不要再漲了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7188.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7188.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
賴委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7212.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7229.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們現場等一下還有吳麗華委員那等下一個王宏威王委員質詢以後我們就休息10分鐘好謝謝主席我們請那個央行總裁楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7242.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7266.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
總裁早我想在這裡要跟總裁請教一下在上星期的央行召開的禮監事會議這個跌破大家的眼鏡就是這個升息辦碼那我想在這裡那個就叫就是總裁在這個升息的辦碼你認為對經濟上有什麼很大的一個效益嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7267.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7295.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我想我們講得很清楚啦事實上我們的升息的主要目的就是說對於通膨的議期通膨的議期我們希望能夠有舒緩的作用就是這樣子總裁對通膨的議期有一個舒緩的作用那針對的就是說這個利率的升息對黃袋的一個黃袋主的一個負擔會不會加重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7297.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7325.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
會加重當然是加重了那也會增加到青年的黃貸壓力那我們新青安這個貸款新青安的話那是有政府在補貼所以有政府在補貼所以相對的就是說對年輕的這些黃貸族其實基本上這個利息是由政府來專案補貼對他青安市政府據我了解好像是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7326.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7344.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那我想在這裡我再請教總裁我想就是說針對的就是說在這一次的一個升息我們來看其實我們的升息基本上就是跟美國的聯準會就是有一定的一個就是互相的一個配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7345.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7355.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
就是說美國聯準會就是從2021年到2024年的3月從0.125到5.375它是增加了5.25增加了5.25那反觀我們台灣從2021年到2024年的3月其實我們從1.125增加到那個2.000其實我們增加了0.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7372.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7397.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那這樣子的一個弧度顯然就是說基本上就是我們台灣的一個就是升息是比較穩就是比較平穩的那這樣子的一個溫和那你認為就是說這樣子的一個溫和的一個升息跟台灣的一個通盤的一個發展會這個影響會有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7398.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7420.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
對所以也就是說你在講的是我們的表2啦事實上你看看他的表1你看看我們的表1你看看美國呢是他的通膨率呢是4.78%4.1現在呢1到2月份是3.1那你看看我們台灣呢是2021年是1.97跟他的4.7你看差那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7423.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7447.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
總裁你認為說這樣子的一個升息那個是比較平穩的對對對因為我們通膨比較低嘛對我們通膨低所以我們升息的幅度就會少啊這個是無庸置疑的好那這樣子的一個升息對台幣的一個升值對台幣的一個匯率會不會影響呢我想現在跟那個來講的話我有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7450.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7475.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們從去年底到現在我們即使我們的利率稍微比南韓來的低當然我們比日本來的高還有就是人民幣來講的我們現在新台幣的貶值說實在的都不會貶值的幅度都低於韓元也都要低於日元 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7479.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7507.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以所以所以這個更利率有些時候因為現在要講的就是說美元強勢對是美元強勢所以你這個升息是在配合美元的一個強勢沒有沒有沒有我們還是通膨還是你還是面對的就是我還是面對的是通膨你最主要就是說還是通膨你還是針對的就是通膨的一個因素是是是沒有錯那總裁我再請教一下就是說央行你已經就是央行你就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7508.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7509.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
你引用我們的預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7523.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7541.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
事實上我們是預計說今年到全年是2.16那我們的核心通膨是2.03那我們要看看因為市場現在都認為美國在6月以後先進國家都在6月以後會降息 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7542.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7564.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
對那如果說中央銀行呢我們阿美國降了你還要再升嗎現在江湖的傳播是6月份你會再升如果說我們維持不變的時候他的降息幾乎就是相當於我們緊縮啦是喔是不是就相對的嘛這是相對的啦所以你覺得你6月不會再升這個是由李建設會來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7565.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7579.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
可是李建事會李建事會的一個決定那總裁是一個當然就是一個領頭羊當然啦我們大家來討論啦我也有我的看法他們也有他們的看法那你的看法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7581.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7599.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
基本上啊,我們到目前就是說6月,到6月以前我們還要緊縮的電價要再調升,然後我們的掛號會,醫療的掛號會也要調升那這麼多的一個元素套進來的時候,恐怕會形成一個一期性的一個通膨效果這個就是說我們有時候說,所以我們這一次才會升息啊,0.125啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7603.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7618.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
可是顯然顯然在外界裡頭認為就是說你這個升息敗馬其實是不是大家看得到了所以我有跟你講說大家覺得跌破眼前我不曉得所謂看不到的是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7619.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7631.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
不過我就我也跟委員報告啦外界也認為就是說這個0.125太高啦有的人就說應該是應該要準備要這樣做當然那你就看是站在哪一個產業來看不過呢專案銀行的理事會呢我們會針對我們的問題來做決定所以說會不會繼續升息這個就到時候理監事會來討論3個月以後對好謝謝謝謝總裁那那個後面請那個我們的那個經濟部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7649.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7677.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
請曾次長次長在這個我們來前幾天黃仁興提出了台灣台灣是AI的革命中心那我們也這個見解那我們也看到了就是賴富也提出了在他的任內他要強化他要強化AI產業他需要大量的用電跟用水那就是說他在這一次的產業之裡他計較在AI |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7678.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7702.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那我們看到了就是說這麼多的一個應該是好信息在好信息就是說未來未來台灣的整個產業我們會聚焦在AI的一個科技的產業所以在用電的問題你有沒有辦法來解決跟委員報告就是有關於那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7704.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7706.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
臺灣大概最快的會是在製造這一邊就是像GPU的生產現在幾乎都在T公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7722.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7746.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個部分其實我們一直都有保持密切聯絡包括我們的用電成長等等這些都有納入我們未來的整個用電的成長的評估裡面我們有把台灣的一些產業比較高耗高用電產業是直接在我們的那個用電成長評估裡面獨立出來做計算那至於說應用的部分你的電夠不夠呢市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7749.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7757.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們已經報告過多少次了?報告過很多次就是我們有把它納入評估然後我們有一起來做這個我們現在的電供電在未來2030年以前的供電是會穩定的供應的不會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7764.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7791.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
部長我想就是說這個大家非常關心的外界一直在講說這一次平均的電價那個上調是11%當然這個11%就是說是怎麼換算的還有就是尤其就是說對於就是全國93%的家庭用電在700度以下的平均就是每個月增加不到20塊這個是你怎麼換算出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7793.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7812.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好跟委員報告第一個問題就是有關於平均電價上調這個是因為每一個級距每一個費率他都有一個錢之前的用電度數用電度數會變成是權重我們是依照這個權重以後去乘以他的費率來做計算綜合出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7812.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7819.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
就是我們一個總收去除以今年度預估的平均收電預估收電量算出來所以說基本上這一張圖表來看的話這個是經濟部的圖表那在3月22號那個這個丟出來的一個梗圖那如果就是說每一個93%全國93%的家庭用電在700度以下的其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7834.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7849.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
就是每個月大概就是不會超過20塊相當是兩顆我們超商的茶葉蛋的這個價格是不是這樣子呢?是委員我跟您報告喔就是330度以下現在的電費還不到兩塊錢那個調三趴的一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7852.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7874.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
其實是因為他的那個基數很低我們現在講的百分比是不同的級距都講都是用百分比去講但他原來的費用其實相對低其實他調節的費用是五位這樣的一個算法就是說其實這一次的一個調升用電只是對大戶有影響對民生用電的影響其實是相對比較小 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7877.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7896.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那我在這裡再跟就是次長做一個探討本席來自於農業的一個選區我的選區有很多高經濟的一個農產品這些農產用電其實他都需要很多的一個用電不管是電照不管是冷氣那相對的就是說我的蘭花 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7897.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7913.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我的蘭花在這個栽培的出口逐年的一個上升這八年來就是蝴蝶蘭在我們台南全世界每三顆蝴蝶蘭就有一顆來自於台灣就來自於台南那它成長了23.8倍每年它的外銷產值是63億 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7918.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7947.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7948.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7960.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
在農業的一個用電上你有沒有就是跨部會的去探討就是納入了一個補助的一個範圍可以不可以專案的來補助我們有動漲所以就是說農業用電不會漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7965.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7975.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我們這一期是2024年4月1號這個調整是他沒有漲價沒有漲價啊會到什麼時候呢那個兩個部分這個不漲價農業用電不漲價會到持續到什麼時候呢那個跟委員報告因為每期都會委員會討論但是委員會這一次有說就是說希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7983.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7996.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
就是說這個屬於是政策上的支出只是由各部會市情節自己來編預算來補助我想說這一個部分是讓電價回歸市場機制補助由政府來處理2024年4月1號沒有漲好 謝謝主席接著請吳立華吳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8020.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8024.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
主席好有請經濟部長次長次長好我們台灣經濟研究院他最近有宣稱就是3月的經濟成長率有3%以上那表示是說我們的經濟表現還不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8048.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8064.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這邊也要特別感謝因為我們的科技業產業蓬勃所以帶動這樣的一個經濟可是基本上來講很多人無感的原因是因為我們看到的這些數據都是一個平均值 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8066.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8090.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
也就是說有賺很多的人然後帶動這個平均值可是廣大的民眾他其實是感覺到自己沒那麼好民不聊生因為他活在自己的一個生活空間裡面所以通常我們也會希望政府要扮演的就是一個劫富濟貧的一個角色那現在因為我們電價要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8093.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8115.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
所以央行這邊為了要對抗通膨所以他也做了利率半碼的一個調升可是我這邊第一個要講的就是說租屋族他是第一個遭殃的因為在消息傳出來央行要宣布升息之前房東就已經宣稱說 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8116.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8144.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
一定要漲租金我們是想說因為很多的租屋族而且大部分的人幾乎很多人都是租屋族他等於是被扒兩層皮又要漲房租又要漲電價所以想要特別請教一下次長為了避免我們的租屋族被扒兩次皮針對這個部分有沒有跟相關的部會去研議配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8146.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8165.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我跟委員報告首先第一件事情是這樣子就是其實從調整電價開始我們就有把這個租屋族列入是最重要的一個項目那台電公司這一邊負責的工作是我們要把資訊做充分揭露所以我們也把因為我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8166.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8167.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
臺電已經在電費單上面盡量的把我們就是平均電費能夠秀出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8186.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8200.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那也提供了一些查詢專區那我想內政部那一邊我想部長林部長也大概有對外在內政委員會有提到就是有關於這個就是定型化的契約的部分在電價這一塊要怎麼樣子收 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8202.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8222.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
對他們會在一個月內提出一個方案來就講簡單一點就是租賃的契約房東跟房客之間租賃的契約會內政部也積極在關心那台電這邊我們就是會提出更好的那個就是資訊揭露來協助這個政策能夠順利推行 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8223.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8242.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那如果說像分租套房去做一個獨立電表呢這是一個方法我們也支持做這件事情就是分表所以也有把這個揭露給我們的房東那個就是房東因為要申請電表必須這個房屋所有權人 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8243.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8248.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
對,我覺得要給他誘因啊,他才會願意做啊,我想這個部分很重要那關於這個電價漲呢,其實對我們的偏鄉就醫我們也很擔心啦那我們知道在3月4號的時候衛福部已經先做了一個所謂的可能會鬆綁掛號費 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8264.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8285.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那又碰上4月1號電價即將調漲所以可預期很擔心就是會不會轉嫁到掛號費那這個部分其實我們就很擔心因為偏鄉醫療他其實本來就資源很匱乏那現在這樣子這個部分就是醫療院所的配套措施有沒有跟衛福部談經濟部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8288.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8307.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那個我想委員是這樣委員就一直委員長期以來就一直關心就是原鄉的一些相關的狀況那我講幾個事情第一個事情是有關於這個電費的部分那我現在是因為他牽涉很廣所以他是用部門別在做討論那接下來這一項這些相關的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8308.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8323.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
衛福部已經透過跟行政院做反應那行政院也在近期會召集會議那我們會去參加所以有初步規劃了齁那什麼時候會公布呢我想說這個統一委員做出決定以後來公布好不好所以是補貼還是減免還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8326.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8342.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這樣子說就是說關於電費這一次委員會大概有提了一個意見就是我們針對不同的部門可能有一些相對弱勢的那我們在用電的這一塊如果要維持一個就是說合理的提供價格反應的速度不要這麼快那 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8344.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8358.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是不是可以用政府用預算補貼的方式來執行那整個經營效率會比較容易做反應這個有提但這一期這一期4月1號這一期還來不及編預算所以已經有些部門已經事先還漲了那醫療部門會怎麼做這個我們會去跟在院裡面做討論然後來做決定而且醫療部門很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8368.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8368.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8392.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8420.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
主計長您好我們知道這個電價漲呢然後加上這個央行升息那麼借款人負擔應該會變重吧原則上上可是我們有很多那個政策的一些政策性的貸款的話是有各國那個吸收都有我們都有那我有看到我們有宣布七種嘛七項政策貸款嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8421.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8436.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
是為了減款充其減輕衝擊那我想要請教一下主計長這7項政策貸款總計大概要補貼多少因為我現在目前沒有這個統計到那我們估計的話各個我這邊有明細總數我再給委員好了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8443.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8459.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主席長我之所以會問這個問題是因為我沒有看到原民會他的重發基金裡面有原住民的微銷貸還有事業貸款奇怪了什麼部會都有提出來為什麼我們原民會的沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8473.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8488.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們會根據他的原意在院理會做一些考量所以意思也就是說應該還有餘裕讓這個原民會的貸款比照辦理對吧對應該是說政策性的有政策性的我們都會去考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8489.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8516.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那會納入啦好那請教一下主計長因為我們的主計總處的報告有指出說2022年也就是過去這個CPI我們大概是有下降的趨勢那2023年的時候也是收斂也是有下降到2.49那就是想要請教你因為我們現在做了這麼多的這樣的一個政策不曉得CPI未來會 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8517.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8532.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
在這個2024年會繼續收斂還是繼續挑戰?就目前的趨勢來看它是會走向繼續收斂但是物價它是一個市場現象那我們有一些不確定因素像那個油電的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8534.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8557.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
像那個油價、煤價這類大宗物資或者不確定性的因素的那我們對這個CPI是怎麼樣我們是反映市場現象所以您認為依您來看就是目前的話現在目前是在往收斂的趨勢但是未來的話會不會有不確定性的因素那就很難講因為對我們是一個那我們就繼續看因為謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8563.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8588.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那我還是要問一下主計長就是一個小問題應該您都知道就是我們在做補助的時候其實都會有所謂的財力分級嘛那像我們看一下像環境部去補助如果以高雄的這個園民區來講他是補助的比例是七成那文化部他也有一些補助比例也是七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8589.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8615.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我之所以會這樣問的意思是說因為我們一般的縣市的相公所他可能10%就好他的那個配合款但是因為落在六都的這些原鄉區他就會變成30%三成的配合款那我們當然知道主計處你們這邊有曾經一個函寫說原住民的重要建設不受補助的比率限制那我不曉得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8616.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8634.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為我們事實上看到很多六都他還是維持要配合三成所以能不能再發個函提醒各部會如果遇到一些原民區就是直轄市的原民區是不是還是可以試他們的能力去做一個財力分級的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8635.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8662.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
跟那個委員說明一下財力分局是有一定的公式我們不能夠說硬要把那個說降低但是我們可以各主管部會他可以是各案的計畫性質綜合考慮如果說要增加那個補助的時候各部會可以說對這個補助看他的實際狀況優於協助抱怨的話我們會綜合考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8663.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8664.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
王宏威、王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8697.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8702.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好謝謝主席我先請經濟部次長曾次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8710.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8738.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
市長你們今天的報告還在寫為什麼要調整電價是因為國際燃料價格飆漲是台電虧損的主因錯大錯特錯我在總諮詢的時候已經清清楚楚的把最近這幾年國際的這些能源價格的趨勢非常清楚的列出來事實上現在國際能源價格包含石油也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8739.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8753.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
或者煤也好天然氣也好都已經跌回二屋戰爭發生之前的一個價位了所以你們還在講說是國際燃料價格飆漲這根本就是假訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8755.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8783.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你們到底在掩飾些什麼呢?台電的虧損是因為能源價格單純能源價格的提升嗎?難道不是綠能賺大錢嗎?雲豹賺大錢嗎?還在騙國際能源價格早就都已經跌下來了然後你們還在騙現在大幅提升是因為國際能源價格再來你們這兩天不停的在帶風向 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8785.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8810.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
來看一下這是歧途共欣賞之前你們說要做時間電價可以這個可以省錢後來呢在網路上說笑死人了是要讓我們半夜烤麵包嗎然後你們再繼續的做梗圖繼續的講幹話說白天烤也可以年省破4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8812.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8840.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
市長請問一下這是什麼神邏輯如果漲電價還讓你可以省4萬那你繼續漲啊你漲20%、30%可以省更多啊這到底是什麼神邏輯我都不曉得你們經濟部在花多少錢在養這些公關公司幫你們做這些梗圖來欺騙老百姓把人民當笨蛋嗎漲價還可以省錢喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8841.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8870.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那你早就該漲啊天天去漲價啊我們天天省錢有這樣的神邏輯嗎請問一下你們為什麼不好好的去傾聽瞭解不管是產業的聲音或者是民眾的聲音然後真的要讓大家要荷包要破費真的物價會上升這要承認嘛我們太多的假數字了待會我還要指出主計處在做假數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8872.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8882.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
為了掩飾太平啊你們可以做假訊息你們可以做假的梗圖你們可以做假的假的這些統計數字是很離譜欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8885.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8898.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以現在漲電價4月1號反正你們是鐵了心要漲電價比如說在立法院裡面現在在野黨都提出要動漲電價因為現在各行各業比如說剛才吳立華委員說啊農業能不能動漲啊你說動漲可是現在醫院也要動漲啊醫院動漲了嗎還沒有哦對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8909.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8932.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那大眾運輸系統大家也苦哈哈然後每一年在漲每一年都是自行吸收說能不能動漲可以動漲嗎你們也沒有給人家動漲啊所以請問一下經濟部在漲電價的同時你要跟老百姓要老實說到底問題出在哪裡然後告訴我們國際能源價格上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8933.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8938.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
朱主計出來幫你們做了欸他幫你們做噢世界各國啊什麼電價的那個那個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8940.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8940.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們現在的問題喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8967.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8981.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這些因為電價上漲其實波及的族群已經非常多了你現在到網路上要去租屋它的電費現在通通都是6塊錢有的甚至是7塊錢在之前是5塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8983.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9006.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
為什麼呢?就是因為4月1號漲電價了所以你現在去租屋網去看它的電價一度電通通都是已經6塊錢它一定隨之上漲所以為什麼我們今天召開這樣的一個專案報告是要告訴你們各行各業通通都會受影響不要告訴我們這種幹話 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9009.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9025.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
說你不用半夜烤麵包你還可以省4萬這麼好的事情這不是奇蹟嗎?綠色奇蹟實在太多了真的第一次說漲價給人家漲電價還說人家還可以省錢呢好再來看好時間暫停一下我請那個朱記長朱主記長我也請央行總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9038.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9040.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
引揚總裁主計長啊剛才你回答其他委員的這回答我都聽不下去我本來還尊敬你的專業你們現在為了粉飾太平牽強我們現在是和緩的和緩在哪裡和緩在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9069.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9070.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
阿珍已經要漲價了因為單價上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9073.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9099.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
然後我們現在說食物類高鐵說他們不敢漲這個運價票價因為可能交通部壓著他事實上高鐵我告訴你一個訊息高鐵內部已經在計算了因為踢除電價今年電價上漲消費物價已經超過5%他們已經達到他可以漲票價的一個這個他有票價公式 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9100.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9121.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他們準備要報董事會他也許會被交通部壓著不漲票價可是我告訴你4月1號高鐵的便當已經漲價了高鐵便當漲價所以你認為民間其他的便當不會漲價嗎還告訴我何緩到底何緩在哪裡好再來看雙北265家醫院漲掛號費準備要漲掛號費網動暴動說是選對的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9128.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9142.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以我剛才也講因為現在醫院診所通通都在請命啊比如說你今天烤麵包你可以選時間我請問你醫院開刀動手術可以選時間嗎你告訴他選對的時間來開刀選對的時間來動手術是不是笑死人所以醫院也撐不住了不要再做這種擺爛的梗圖了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9156.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9184.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
就是笑話嘛你們做一次梗圖人家就來吸你一次板啊你們做點正經事所以主計長萬物一定會起漲過去過去我們台灣有兩種價格上漲的時候絕對會影響物價一個是油價一個就是電價嘛這不是顯而易見的嗎你是第一天當主計長嗎來我再請問一下今天那個報告我也是大開眼界的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9186.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9201.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
今年過去兩年的CPI我們都知道了今年的CPI你們第6頁主計處的報告第6頁預測今年的CPI將上漲2.03%我跟你打賭啦2.03%這麼低喔來中央銀行的報告第3頁預期 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9211.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9228.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
今年央行上修今年的CPI到2.16%央行略高一些你們才2.03%我請問我聽哪一個的我也不知道聽哪一個的事實上我認為你們通通都是低估了 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9229.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9254.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
通通都是低估了你們在來報告之前你們兩個不認識嗎總裁跟主計長這兩個到底哪一個才是對的我不知道但是我時間有限我還要再請命來下一頁因為中央銀行的調息我知道因為中央銀行最怕物價上漲所以調息是一個預防性的打預防針 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9256.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9279.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
老實說這也是跟全世界趨勢不一樣全世界之前呢我們之前也是都是在漲這個利息都升息但是經啊對不起我們升息完在現在呢全世界事實上是都往降息的方向至少沒有升息美國也是一樣我們為什麼升息就是因應我們現在電價會大幅上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9280.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9306.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
可是現在你當你升息之後很多的貸款比如說你現在親安貸款這個是政府有補貼可是因為郵局的升息現在公教人員的房貸隨之上漲因為他是跟著我們郵局來聯動的所以公教的房貸也上漲我現在為公教人員請命今年給他加薪4%結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9308.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9321.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
物價上漲電價上漲房貸上漲然後再加上未來的什麼什麼可能什麼健保費啦什麼那個掛號費等等這48被吃得光光的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9322.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9340.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
被吃得光光的所以我要讓我們的相關的部會知道在這一次電價調漲我們面臨一個什麼樣艱難的局面老百姓非常艱難尤其不管你是租屋族你是房貸族你是外食族 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9342.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9365.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
絕對都會漲價嘛不要告訴我們這些沒有問題很和緩民生用電沒有影響沒有影響你不要漲嘛就沒影響啦我真的非常生氣我們台電的虧損不是就來自於我們錯誤的能源政策嗎次長你應該心知肚明啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9369.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9380.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
臺電虧損累累結果綠能賺大錢啊不是綠能都在賺大錢嗎你們現在台電去對外購電的成本多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9382.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9411.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
便宜的核電你們不用嘛繼續啊讓他繼續的廚藝啊電價上漲是必然的趨勢更何況我們去年補台電一千億今年還補台電一千億我們大學人是怎樣欠台電欠那些綠能的嗎所以如果真的因為國際能源上漲好那我們也就認了結果不是啊國際能源上漲的部分已經用我們納稅人群吹超增吹收已經去彌補它了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9413.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9433.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
連續兩年尼普還不夠還要漲所以我要講就是說現在你們鐵了心要漲電價但是這個惡果是由全民來負擔但是我覺得更可惡的是你們不要嘴巴上雲淡風輕說這個沒有事當然有事 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9433.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9434.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
謝謝 休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10078.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10082.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
繼續開會 下一位請李昆城議員質詢謝謝主席 有請我們央行楊總裁請楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10104.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10129.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
李委員早總裁好這個台電的電價預計在4月1號就要調漲了那其實央行算是動足績先過去就是認為說可能在台電的這個電價調漲之後會有這一個預期性的通膨所以在上個禮拜的這一個禮堅式會議就是升息的半碼那雖然說外界有覺得surprise |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10130.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10151.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
但是我覺得說這也合理啦因為有預期就是說有可能這個物價會蠢蠢欲動所以先預防性的先升息半碼就有點要溫和或是說抑制一下物價是不是是沒有錯那所以當初考量的大家在會裡面考量的最主要理由就在於 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10151.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10152.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
臺電電價調漲平均11% |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10164.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10172.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
外界也認為對CPI會有影響主計總處也預計會增加0.18%全年是0.24%接下來剩下3年度預估影響CPI年增率是0.23%會增加是0.23%央行也預估會增加0.27%預估全年度的CPI成長率是2.16%都有上調 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10191.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10191.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
今天請大家報告的題目是電價調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10213.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10222.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
然後對於物價波動的影響先請教一下總裁這個央行升息對於物價影響是正相關還是負相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10223.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10251.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
基本上就是說我們就是說是理論上就是說是我們升息對抑制物價應該是會有影響但是我們所做出來的預測是些微的影響而已是負的是些微的影響對物價會有抑制的作用但是是很稀微而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10252.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10279.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那如果理論上升息會有這個抑制的作用的話如果說就美國來講的話他是大經濟體他的升息尤其是他升息的幅度非常大所以呢他對物價的抑制就會比較明顯要幅度要幅度要大那所以說升息辦碼對物價雖然有抑制但是效果還不明顯對不會就像美國這樣子他幅度很大那他會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10280.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10301.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那如果說這個對於現在電價調漲之後這個物價有蠢蠢欲動的這一種這種感覺啦這個我覺得也是預期性的就是說大家覺得會漲會漲會漲可能最後就真的漲了那如果這種情況之下剛剛很多委員也問過這一個總裁啦那如果說6月份再開這個禮監事會議的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10304.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10327.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
對於物價如果說在持續的在成長甚至1到5月CPI年增率超過央行所預估的是2.16%的話有沒有考慮會再升息?不過我們的預測就是說我們第一季跟第二季都還是會在2%以上第一季第二季到第三季的時候才稍微會在2%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10328.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10355.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那第4屆就會在2%以下這個是我們現在目前的一個估計但是呢因為這是一個這是一個預測預測呢不會是很準確的啦但是呢就是說我們在6月的時候呢我們會再修正會再修改就是說我們對於未來的物價會再做一個預測 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10357.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10360.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
現在目前也就是說都已經是說覺得是第一季第二季會在2%以上對 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10375.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10392.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那如果說再到6月的時候那就是說如果是2%或2%多的話都還是在你們這個預估的範圍之內那即使說再稍微高一點點應該是沒有多大問題所以也沒有說2就是你的警戒線嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10393.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10396.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那如果是按照這種說法的話那6月份應該不會再讓我們有一次surprise吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10412.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10437.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我想我們到目前為止我們的政策利率已經是15年的高點了15年以來的高點了我們的市場的利率也是處於比15年前都來的高了所以我想應該是這樣特別是先進的國家現在目前他們也都討論就是說也許他們在6月份的時候就要開始要降息 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10438.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10446.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
中央銀行在調整利息的時候也要來參考一下所以我們的報告裡面我們也有談到我綜合總裁所講的話就是說因為你們在3月份的時候已經有升息辦碼但是你們認為說升息辦碼之後對物價會有稍微抑制的一個效果就算CPI成長率有稍微在2到2.5之間浮動 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10467.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10476.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
但是呢因為這個我們這個利率也高了然後國外有可能會降息所以6月份的時候有可能不動就對了對啦應該可以這麼說預測啦也可以這麼說啦好謝謝總裁那我再請一下我們的這個曾次長請曾次長委員長哎次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10492.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10518.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這個因為這個電價費率審議委員會已經通過了這個電價這個在4月1號應該會就是如期實施了吧這個條長跟委員報告我們是我在今天的報告裡面有提到這個是根據104年立法院決議做的電價審議就是定期審議這樣的機制那我們後來電業法修正以後我們就把這納入執法那我們會依照現在的法規來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10519.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10538.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
就是說你們3月底有這個有開過會了嘛然後就是說決定就是說這個平均條幅大概11%左右然後預計4月1號如期實施就對了目前我們現在就是依照我們的法規在執行4月1號那請教一下次長齁這個台電齁這個在110年的時候虧損了這個2265億那112年呢虧損了這1985億那我當然知道說這一個烏鶴戰爭會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10548.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10572.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
然後呢113年呢這個電價有調漲了然後這個行政院也有撥補一千億進來了那請教一下次長那這個2024年就113年呢台電預期還會再虧損多少勒各位報告就是說我們剛才您提的兩個前提就是我們這一次的電價調漲實施然後再加上那我先問說電價調漲之後可以對於這一個電價這一個因為調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10577.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10578.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
政府又給你們一千億了嘛對不對因為去年這個稅數有增加那算一下今年度哩今年度的虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10600.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10610.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我跟委員報告那個我們今年的預算數原來是虧1887億那個是假設有調3%的狀況那調3%的狀況如果這個扣掉不算是2100多億那如果現在我們有1000億就是這個預算能夠通過審議然後能夠補貼台電再加上現在的電價那我們再看國際的燃料價格的變化我們現在初估 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10629.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10632.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以你們對下半年度是比較樂觀的?就是說原物料可能會下跌嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10650.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10678.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
跟委員報告就是說整個數字算起來就是我們現在加起來大概1600多那跟原來的距離大概差400億左右那我們再減掉100億大概差300億我們是估算說燃料價格是有可能再往下做一點評委因為目前看起來全球景氣復甦的速度沒有那麼快但台灣因為有特殊的題材所以台灣的狀況會稍微比較好但是燃料價格看國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10680.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10696.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
就是說那就算是這一個虧損算一算虧損100億好了齁那這個跟前兩年這樣累積起來快有4千億吧那4千億的那我再請教一下就是說那如果這樣子的話那明年度電價還有可能再調整嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10697.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10724.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那個跟委員報告這個我們還是要跟院裡面做討論就是說我們看到我們鄰國韓國韓國大概當時有提出早先在2022、2023他們有提出一個就是透過比較長時間的方式把他們他們的虧損規模比我們更大他們八千多億現在搞不好更多那怎麼樣子能夠透過比較長期的價格調整調幅不要那麼劇烈的狀況下來拉平那我覺得台灣的狀況一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10725.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10751.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
就是到時候的調整也是會考慮到整個當時國內的經濟情勢來做判斷我想說我現在沒有辦法馬上回答您但我要說您剛才說的我剛才說的可能損益良貧是基於政府補貼一千億的狀況對我知道我簡單來講就是1%大概800多就一千億就是12%左右大概是這樣的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10753.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10772.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
臺電目前就算是政府撥補電價調漲還是虧損的大概有4千億左右累積的過去累積過去這兩三年累積下來的4千億左右這個4千億你要讓它虧損減少要嘛就是政府在增加或是你們臺電在增資要嘛就是在調漲這個電價我們比較沒辦法接受就是說每年都調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10778.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10797.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
每年都調漲這就是我們比較沒辦法去接受的啦那所以說你們自己要有一套這一個財務試算關於這一個虧損的部分你們要怎麼去做處理啦因為這大家都很關心的嘛那不能說因為這個台電虧損然後每年就做調漲這個我覺得是我們會比較關心這一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10799.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10824.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我想委員這個部分就是說我們會平衡整個平衡來做考慮這個事情是我們也不希望就是年年都調我先講這是第一件事情但是我們採取的方式是調服沒有像其他國家這麼劇烈的方法這就是選擇了一個做法但是做法就是會把調整的時間拉長對於因為簡單來講就是電價調了如果零售物價上去其實不太容易回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10824.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10846.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
但是國際燃料價格上去可能會回來我們是怕把整個物價頂上去的時候下不來我想這個都經過整體的考量那當然電價是回歸市場其實通膨這件事不完全是經濟部主管我想主計處央行都非常的關切這件事那他的問題也不完全是電價的問題好 謝謝市長 謝謝主席現在執行請黃森森黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10861.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10866.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
謝主席,有請總裁以及主計長請楊總裁和朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10872.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10898.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
韓委員早是總裁還有主計長我想台灣的能源政策從每年都要討論台電虧損虧損的金額越來越高其實應該還是回到我們的能源政策我們高度的依賴所謂的火力發電剛好又碰上了烏鵝戰爭所以整個燃料成本的上漲超乎想像所以台電累積到現在虧了3000多億我們每年都在討論一樣的問題然後加上 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10901.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10923.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
目前為止央行用了很多的工具希望能夠抑制物價所以總裁你上一次我們在這邊的時候你還說不知道會不會升息然後一個禮拜之後就升息接下來這個物價可能因為電價上漲還是會繼續往上走我剛聽到很多人都在問我們還有可能再升息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10925.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10947.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
基本上呢我剛剛也是在講就是說以目前來看的話我們的政策利率已經是跟是15年來是最高了是已經算是很高所以升息是個工具嘛避制物價的工具但是升息一樣會推波所謂的房貸壓力對小老百姓的生活還是會有一定的影響是沒有錯第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10947.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10951.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
台電的虧損造成了很多民眾對於綠電、綠油油、鑽寶寶很嚴重的相對剝奪感 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10957.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10982.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個波動感看到的是民營電廠每一個都賺錢全世界虧損的只有台電台電的電價調整政府必須撥補千億用這樣的方式讓一般的民眾告訴一般民眾說我只漲一點點工業大戶漲比較多但是兩位工業大戶漲了他如果是做食品的他的食品不會漲嗎會漲吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10984.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10992.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
工業大戶的電價漲了難道叫他做出來的東西不漲價嗎?電價絕對跟物價至少是成正比吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10993.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11016.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
總裁同意嗎?是啦,不過就是說以他們現在11%的一個帳戶還算是溫和啦是溫和但是就是會繼續漲所以你們的報告裡面是說會對我們的物價指數有一定的影響不管是直接或間接我看到總裁是說央行通膨你認為接下去的政策工具會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11018.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11018.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
曾市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11053.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11080.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以如果像剛剛總裁說的要緩步回降他的工具大概只有升息那剛剛次長說的我們當然不希望太快所以電價做了很溫和的處理但是我只要問我們現在這樣補了1000億漲了電價我們多久可以安心的過日子還是9月可能也調明年4月再來一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11081.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11094.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
你只要告訴我我們可以安心多久啦今天這樣子4月1號這個這個匯率以後大家可以在今年多久可以放心的過日子 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11095.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11111.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
委員我這樣子講,就是說我們電價在調整的時候考慮了很多的面向所以你沒有辦法回答我是嗎?我這樣子,我先報告一件事情,就是就是講說百姓要不要等,等到9月,等到明年會再漲一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11112.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11115.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
院長在總諮詢有回答過他就說我們電價生意委員會有提到院長也有指示了就是今年會有1000億的挹注對我就在這個前提之下你能不能告訴我4月1號明年的4月以前不會再有調漲的狀況我跟委員報告我可以跟你說我們預估的狀況但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11133.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11134.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
主計長,我們如果電價調整之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11157.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11167.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我們中央政府所有的公部門電價也會漲對吧 是的電費大概算起來要漲多少公家機關 我們估計大概是75億左右漲價的要多繳75億的電費 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11172.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11182.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我這邊有個很奇怪的數字75億之後有45%是來自國防部是這個意思嗎?國防部大概接近一半所以這些接下來要找的這個錢都編在你明年的預算了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11198.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11212.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
明年的預算11那個4年我們在編預算的時候會考慮這個因素在裡面一定要編啊不然你根本就沒有錢交啊但是現在漲如果4月1號實施的話今年有錢來付這個漲的電價嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11215.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11217.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以我們要增加75億的支出這也是一筆很大的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11232.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11233.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
今年通常那明年勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11258.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11262.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
還是一樣跟委員報告、審議會會討論所以我們要編錢去補助他們嗎?現在是經濟部說今年的豁免他們台電吸收掉了明年的這些機關包括我剛剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11274.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11300.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
龍嶼業、學校、社福團體、醫院、大眾運輸我們如果要求編列補助款有可能要編多少錢跟那個委員報告一下如果說政策決定要補助的你算出來了沒有多少錢要政策決定才可以有多少錢不知道那個政策決定的話就看他的範圍我們只管漲價不管政策決定內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11301.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11314.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
如果你要補貼你應該現在就有一個底了現在就大概知道我要補貼多少除了補貼台電之外還要補貼這些單位啊這些單位的錢有多少次長你們算過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11315.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11338.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
好,跟委員報告,就是說剛才您列舉的那3個...如果單單75億是公家部門另外我們還要去補貼這些民間團體民間單位的補出來要多少錢那剛才您舉的例子就是農漁教育社福我們今年9個月大概是24億左右那如果延長到一年我會超過30億所以我們總共政府還要再多弄100億出來幫忙這個電價調漲的狀況,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11342.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11348.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
呃我這樣說就是整個總體的政府機關應該是那就是說清楚講明白總數75億啦75億不包括補助的阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11353.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11382.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
包括嗎?你把相關的細節告訴我今年漲價政府總預算會受到多少影響第二個我政府部門就要漲了75億的電價然後我要去補貼民間現在每個民間都在哇哇叫大家都希望政府能夠做一些補貼尤其是跟公益有關的另外捷運也好高鐵也好大家都在哇哇叫將來民眾面對的是整體生活上面費用的增加不單單只是你政府部門而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11383.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11383.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
臺電兼 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11398.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11416.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
兼顧了政策目標這個我們都理解虧損也是不得不的結果但是我認為我們除了多賺錢少浪費少花錢相關的資產活化也很重要如果從其他的業外可以得到一些收入的話可以彌補這些虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11417.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11443.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
但是整個這波的漲價我們到底要編多少預算會增加政府多少的負擔增加納稅多少的負擔我們應該清楚明白的一一的說明不是只是告訴他你只漲這麼一點點而且你不管是我們可能去買個麵包只會漲兩塊錢這種話不要再說了全部的人都知道電價漲我們要承擔但是我們要很清楚的知道我們面對什麼樣的未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11444.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11453.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以政府要增加多少錢補貼多少錢多久之內不會再影響到人民的生活這是我們需要知道的次長你懂我的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11454.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11483.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們在報告裡面都有盡量...政策上面資產活化讓台電可以有更多的業外收入去賺更多的錢而不是每天因為這樣配合我們這些我們的高度依賴火力發電讓我們隨著國際的燃料成本不斷上升完全處於一個沒有辦法自己控制的環境這才是可怕的事情我們資產一定會盡快...會盡量活化但我要跟委員報告一件事我們很多營業用的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11484.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11509.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
臺電雖然有很多土地但都是營業用那個沒辦法變那是公共事業用地這就是你們要去努力的呀臺北市我們曾經有個便便所上面可以蓋大樓啊他是努力來的啊你們不努力永遠沒有辦法處理啊我們現在都在臺北市只要可以蓋大樓我們就會做這就是資產活化臺鐵開始要資產活化臺電也要臺電會一直在做謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11514.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11536.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
現在質詢請王世堅、王委員主席我請楊總裁還有朱主計長楊總裁還有朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11546.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11563.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
總裁、主計長這次台電調整了電價我先說台電當然去年、前年那每一度虧了一塊二0.9元這樣連著兩年下來虧了3896億所以這次台電要漲價說實在話正當性十足 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11574.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11578.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
但是平衡性不足。但是平衡性不足的就是說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11592.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11615.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
對於我們生斗小民的電費一樣是調漲了啦這跟社會的期待不太一樣齁社會期待說電該漲但是是不是就應該找工業大戶那他們負擔得起嗎那這個平衡性不足導致絕大多數的我們一般的民眾那麼民生物資物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11617.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11645.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
都受到影響衝擊了我們絕大多數生投小民的生活所以我認為有正當性但是平衡性不夠那當然這個這就必須要兩位來解決一些問題那央行很不錯就是說總算央行決定升息了但是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11648.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11665.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
那個楊總裁你光是看美國齁美國光去年一年就連著調了五次啦連續升息五碼欸那我們從去年到現在才升了那樣微微的半碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11666.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11687.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
當然我知道這升息會造成的一些後果可是它造成的一些不好的影響性我們可以藉由政府的補貼比方說青年貸款比方說壽星階級他們的貸款受到利息影響的那低收入者的影響我們可以藉由補貼來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11690.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11718.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
而升息確實是意志通膨的最好方法之一嘛這是不可否認的所以說實在話這一次的辦嘛在我看就像台電這一次漲電一樣台電這一次漲了電價那好像有漲了可是問題也沒全解決啊這好像箭射到身體裡面他們也是用巨箭法 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11719.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11738.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
就把體外的就拒掉就好可是根本的電價後續還會受到的一些影響以及他們長年的虧損其實也還是沒解決啦同樣你升息升了半馬結果對於物價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11739.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11739.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11756.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11778.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
你認為這一次升半碼有沒有辦法有效的抑制通貨膨脹在你的看法是些微的抑制些微的就這個我們所做出來的一個結果是些微或是抑制6月份的話如果是些微那因為你看喔通貨膨脹光勢喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11781.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11794.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
光是二月份就達到3.08欸那四月份四月份電價實質漲了以後那更高更高所以你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11796.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11821.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
六月份你會不會繼續升息跟那個委員報告一下今年歐月份比較高因為是跟去年的那個過年在不同的月份是啦那年年都在過年那為什麼今年就達到通膨欸通膨的標準是3%欸我們今年過了3.08嘛不是嗎對因為我們一般的物價是跟上一年上一年同好 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11822.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11843.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
好你說是過年好我們接受是過年齁那現在來啦4月份那怎麼辦對既然既然那個主計長你講的話我就說齁你們啦估計今年的CPI欸央行跟你們那個主計處你估2.03啦央行估2.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11845.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11871.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我認為都過於樂觀啊就像我剛講二月份就3.08了四月份最重大的這一波電價上漲以後那個CPI那當然會遠高於3.08那也就是把你們兩位先前估計今年的CPI根本就嚴重打臉了不是嗎那個總裁你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11873.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11897.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我想就是說剛剛主計長也已經講了這個3.08是因為去年的那個春節是落在一月份所以呢也就是說它的基期低導致呢所以如果說一二月如果說你說因為基期低對對對因為如果說一二月來平均的時候呢一二月兩個平均起來是2.43是不是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11901.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11924.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以你們今年估的也不算錯誤我跟委員報告就是說估測因為一年初一開始估測的時候會不是一定很準確的我跟委員報告因為你隨著資訊來源慢慢的增加的時候我們在6月份的時候我們會再估測 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11926.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11942.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我們會再估測。估測呢有一些的機構都是每個月在修正的所以不要把就是說3月份的估測呢太過於就是說準確不準確用這樣的來衡量好像不是很合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11943.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11962.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那這樣隨便說說說一個數字也沒有沒有沒有你對金融的專業這個我尊重我為什麼提出說你對CPI你跟主計處你們這個評估過於樂觀我就是希望說你在正確的估計之下才能 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11963.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11983.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
有正確的對策嗎?就像你CPI啦你們的估測我現在就講房租好了房租當然在CPI指項目的排序裡面他排最高他佔的那個比例最高結果房租啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11983.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12009.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那個主計長你們在房租評比你的取樣裡面第一個你這個取樣很少在變化變化的數量不大第二個你取樣才取1350個有一個台大的經濟研究所的碩士我相信你知道叫李祖福對那篇我們也帶那篇你看了嘛他 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12010.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12016.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
他的估算裡面他是從591租屋網裡面他取了107萬筆交易的資料107萬筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12020.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12029.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
你們長年來就這1350筆沒有沒有沒有跟那個委員報告一下所以他評估出來的是3.56到3.58那個委員大概是1350筆是作為那個租屋的因為我們另外有一個他自有房屋我們自有房屋占百分之八十幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12046.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12064.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們有一個受賺的所以在全部那個1350或者是您講的那個台大的那個壽司的那個樣本跟我們都不一樣我們是全國的包括自由住宅都在裡面謝謝對啦所以我的意思就是說人家我就以數量來比嘛你是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12066.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12082.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
一千三百五十筆準還是一百零七萬筆準啊我剛才講到我們事實上是屬於八百多萬筆都在我們的那個八百多萬筆嗎對八百多萬筆你怎樣八百多萬筆我看看你在估算在哪裡你八百多萬筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12083.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12084.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這14年來我們房價漲幅是 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12108.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12118.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
高達142%這是房價的漲幅那房租的CPI只有12%這個很顯著的一個落差所以我是認為這樣你像內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12122.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12150.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那個主計長內政部的資料他量品數都還比你多他至少他根據實價登錄的他也有30萬戶結果結果你們還認為說這個內政部的不準那你們的比較準我必須說明一下你少的來批評說多的不準沒有我們的我剛才講說內政部他只是房租到去登錄我們的是包括自有住宅都在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12152.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12169.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
好啊你所謂的你的包括自由住宅你你估算在哪邊你給我資料我我拿你不能說給我們立委看的資料我們會有一個資料跟委員說明那你說啊那些資料不對我還有其他的資料我根據的是其他資料這不是很奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12170.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12190.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我簡單講我主席我簡單跟他們做個結論我是說我認為啦我第一點這個中央銀行我認為說你們這個評估如果是建立在失真的CPI上面那這個評估跟未來我們要對應的這個政策會是不對的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12190.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12214.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以CPI的評估必須很準確也就是說你們必須現在慎重去考慮4月電價漲了以後CPI的影響那是不是6月也要繼續升息那要先有一個對策才對還有我希望主計長你們能夠增加私有住宅租金樣本那這個部分你說有是不是你提過我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12215.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12235.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
好你提供給我好不好還有最後一點齁我希望你們研議說是不是將房價也列入CPI評估的值項目好不好有關於房價那個的話我們必須講國際間沒有把房價跟房租是放在一起搞定因為房價是資本財那一個是一個消費財不太一樣但是房價齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12240.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12244.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
已經嚴重影響到嘛對,我們也已經把房價跟房租的區別在那邊跟委員說明一下好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12268.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12293.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好,我們事前委員質詢結束,我們現在請摩明財委員發言主席,各位朱列席、關遠達,主席會不會請主計長、央行總裁、還有曾次長來,朱主計長,蔣總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12299.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12314.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
各位首長好請問朱主計長今天這個題目是寫電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響請問這裡寫電價大漲那這個標題下的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12320.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12333.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我尊重委員的一個立法院的給我們的題目的我們尊重我們不能表示意見謝謝好謝謝那請問曾次長他這個題目寫說電價大漲那你這個標題下的怎麼樣這趙偉提的啦趙偉你問我我怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12344.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12353.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我們就是尊重早委的決定那這個標題下去是對還是不對?就是是算大漲還是小漲?那個跟委員報告就是說台灣的電價有一段時間都沒有漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12366.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12379.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
當然漲了以後大家覺得說對漲價會有討論這2022、23、24才開始漲但是國際上的漲幅到目前為止幾乎其他國家漲幅都比台灣高所以應該是電價全球大漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12384.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12409.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
不會是只有台灣漲啦我想說這跟委員做報告但是就是用我就是如果一致的標準來講的話大概是這樣的狀況跟委員報告其實我每次看到你不是漲就是來跟立法院要錢你能不能換一點別的生態你換一個方式比如說你來告訴我是說台電不要倒那怎麼樣開源節流 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12410.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12437.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
不是每次在這裡你每次都用台電要倒了台電要倒了然後用這樣的一個方式來要挾全民然後說不得不漲跟委員報告我想說這個是我們整個電要調整路徑選擇的問題我們如果要讓他在過這一段時間裡面對整個民生經濟衝擊不要是非常快那像有些國家其實是尤其在疫情期間還暴漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12438.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12465.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那其實對民生的影響會更大那我想說我們是考慮這整個調節能夠比較和緩的狀況來做那我也跟委員報告今年的整個情形好調整了以後可能的狀況是如何也感謝院裡面的支持您是說哪一個年度您是說我們根據那個審議會的決議我跟委員報告一百零一百零四年就已經決定了這個決議是誰來做決議的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12470.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12497.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
審議會會審出一個結果審議會是誰啊那個電價審議委員會我知道裡面有幾個人啊15到17個有學者專家部會代表還有工商團體跟消費者團體那現在問題就是說這些代表的人他們所審議出來的東西一定是對的嗎跟委員講跟委員報告如果他審議的結果是錯誤的這些惡果又要全民來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12499.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12520.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
你認識不認識韓國瑜?那個立法院院長他每次都講一句話你記不記得他講什麼話?七個字我給你一點提示齁,莫忘每個人都會念嘛莫忘世上苦人多 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12522.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12543.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
報告委員然後你們經濟部每一次都是莫忘電價要一直漲那個委員我想這樣子齁我看我們這次調整我跟委員報告那你們這樣的調整齁我們這次調整漲幅漲多的我跟你打賭啦反而是竊竊這一次你調漲完了以後用電度數少的我們漲的以後少的是幅度非常微小以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12544.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12567.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
你說微小我就跟你講說電價大漲我是說300度以下像類似這樣子的狀況後面的情況才是會失控我再快速跟你結束一下其實台電正在公司的立場你應該要開源節流你要想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12569.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12581.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
本期的這個選區有個地方叫做深美超高壓變電廠深坑嗎?深美你知道那邊有多大的土地? |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12582.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12606.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
跟委員報告你講的是在深坑裡面那一個現在目前為止還是露天那個超高壓變電站嗎對那一整片十幾公頃我這樣說他那個是電液用地喔電液用地其實如果要做開發要解編他有些一定的行政程序導致我們在台北而且你要拿白紙黑字要慢慢寫要完成一個行政流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12606.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12613.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那個要做土地審議都要地方政府一起來合當然當然所有的事情都要人做我們都陸續在做你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12615.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12642.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那個地方我講很久了現在深坑清軌也都定案了差不多七七八八了那個做了以後你那邊有捷運站的地方你還搞一個什麼超高壓便電所現在科技那麼進步你可以怎麼樣開源節流的方式土地開發也可以民眾不能接受的時候你們每次都要死要錢你能不能想一點健康一點的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12643.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12659.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
委員不是我們誰要錢我想說這件事情因為全世界電價不是只有台灣在漲如果今天只有台灣在漲我們過去台灣應該要被檢討這一次你漲了以後你能不能保證說以後不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12661.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12673.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
委員你又不敢保證那又來立法院又是要挾說部長這沒有要挾我這跟委員報告同樣的故事一直在做那我再問你一個問題面對這樣子很困難的情景那你會不會重啟核能電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12686.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12710.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這個跟委員報告喔就是核能電廠他能不能重啟的問題不是成本問題最核心的問題是安全問題好安全問題如果第5代的核能是安全的你會不會考慮要重啟那個還沒建啊就是還沒建可是全世界現在有35個國家又開始要做核能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12712.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12719.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
你們會不會去研究、去討論?當然是要安全啊,不安全怎麼做?所以,核能是一個選項 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12730.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12753.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
應該要這樣講就是核能現在也是大家在討論的一個方案之一所以已經開始要討論了就對了國際上都有在討論我覺得你們要面對整個困境要想出方法因為台灣是一個島國我們沒有想到一個方法以後你通通會遇到這個電的問題都是無解那請朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12763.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12783.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
主計長剛剛提到了韓國瑜院長他講的那句話是什麼是莫忘世上苦人多一百分不容易欸你這個回答我覺得很滿意那我就要提醒你就是說這一次電價如果漲的話飆漲啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12786.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12811.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
很多人都很辛苦啊主計長我請問你喔你有沒有考慮過這些年輕人這些還在念書的年輕人那他本來可能早上吃一個荷包蛋現在不敢吃啦吃半顆結衣縮食沒有人給他錢啊主計長這些年輕人怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12812.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12817.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以這是因為電價調漲那這些最辛苦的學生族群的話你有沒有給他們補助? |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12835.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12851.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那個目前我們是對那個一個族群補助並沒有說對對某些像親安貸款那個是我剛講念書的我們還得比如說念書的話我們國中生到念大學研究所因為他沒有收入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12852.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12880.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
然後家裡可能這些爸爸媽媽薪水沒有漲給的零用錢又少了又少了目前的制度裡面對像那個什麼貸款的話我們有一些錯誤是然後政府也給他每年那是貸款嘛可是小朋友如果說念書要買早餐啊要買午餐啊晚餐啊日用品啊主計長這些人怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12882.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12904.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
每一個人的生活習慣不一樣,我不能夠用配給的方式給他們是,那他要跟誰求助呢?他們其實是最弱勢的一群真的生活有困難的話,我們的有一個低收入戶的補助,而且低收入戶的學生另外也有補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12905.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12930.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那單親家庭怎麼辦呢?那個我們的社會福利制度都有一定弱勢族群怎麼辦呢?因為你這個電價一飆漲了以後所以今天這個題目說電價大漲生活周邊全部都漲萬物齊漲主計長真的大家活不下去了你們有沒有什麼急救的專線? |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12931.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12952.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
如果缺錢可以貸款或者可以紓困社會福利制度有那個是有所謂的那個萬一生活不可能好啦剛剛我最在意的就是年輕人這些念書的同學其實是很辛苦的哭哈哈接下來公車票什麼東西通通要漲口袋的錢都沒有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12954.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12962.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
希望你們在制定政策的時候莫忘世上苦人多一點時間對不起總裁你現在那個升息調升一碼其實很多的半碼半碼0.125那升息了以後那央行有沒有賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12984.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12994.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
不會吧,我們也不會就是說為了升息然後為了賺錢然後來升息你升息,一些房貸主不是都交了錢嗎?那一定有人得利啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12995.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13012.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
最後賺錢的是誰?不會啊,中央銀行不會就是說我們來計算說我們是賺錢或是賠錢然後我們來做升息不是這樣子的那你比如說你升一碼升兩碼的話央行可以多賺多少錢?不會,0.125都不會去考慮這個0.25你不用考慮啦那結果的話你們有沒有賺到錢啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13020.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13020.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
總裁你 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13038.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13041.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那央行有沒有賺到?不會啊一點都沒賺嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13054.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13069.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
真的嗎?對,不會好,那你去年繳酷大概1800億喔?是,沒有錯其實你們都一直在跟民眾找錢那為什麼你央行不多賺一點你就撥補過去就好了啊?不會啦,中央銀行不會就是說國營事業機構裡面啊?中央銀行的職責就是說要維持金融的穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13076.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13076.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13093.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13121.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
中央銀行基於就是說是一個善良管理人的一個立場我們來manage我們的這個外汙存體然後呢外汙存體我們如果說能夠賺錢的話呢我們就繳雇沒有賺錢的時候呢時間的關係啊我還是想說請各單位想個辦法不要叫人民出錢你看財政部他從善如流我跟他講說提案紅標民主有動漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13122.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13145.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
中央部長馬上就答應說好就動長所以我們也希望說經濟部啊我們委員要求你們動長你們也從善如流多多站在小老百姓的這個立場來思考謝謝林明財委員質詢結束我們現在請吳春成委員吳春成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13147.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13171.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
吳淳澄委員好吳淳澄委員不在現場那我們再來請鄭天才委員主席我們委員還有請我們主計長還有經濟部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13179.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13197.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
來請朱主席長和曾次長主席長好還有次長好這個今天的專題報告是電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動影響專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13201.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13228.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們看這個消費者物價基本分類指數逐年上升到今年二月的一個數字到今年二月所以那時候還沒有漲電價電價還沒有大漲這個物價就逐年上升逐月上升所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13231.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13250.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
現在已經宣布要漲電價而且4月1日開始那我們看主計總處的報告裡面有提到這個就是經濟部那邊的一個資料整體平均漲幅約11%這個是電價的部分那我們看這個主計總處的分析這個依本次電價調漲方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13261.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13290.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
評估將直接影響CPI0.07個百分點所以對113年CPI增幅影響約0.18個百分點這個如果我們相較於剛才講的這個表這是主委總處自己的表當初沒有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13292.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13316.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
電價沒有上漲的情況之下疫情這一兩年也期緩了然後什麼二屋戰爭那個也都已經過了那個什麼油費什麼漲的都已經過了但是還是漲物價所以不曉得這個主計長你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13319.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13327.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
113年GPI增幅影響約0.18個百分點到底是怎麼分析出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13327.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13351.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那個是我們是根據那個是因為電匯這邊講電匯占CPI的全數是1.15個百分點所以電匯如果是漲的話那個乘以那個全數那我們估計因為這個4月1號漲所以有9個月所以我們大概是0.07個百分點另外電匯漲一些工業的用戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13352.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13372.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
他的成本也漲而且我們是假定這些是完全反映在價格上事實上這些不一定會完全反映在價格上因為他要看市場的供需台性我們以前是做了一個蠻高的一個估計所以0.17他假定全部轉給消費的負擔所以我們是這樣子算出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13376.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13403.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這個說明還帶徵走因為在沒有電價上漲的情況之下都還消費者物價指數都還逐年上升逐月上升電價上漲就會影響到很多的食衣住行、育樂、醫療都會包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13405.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13429.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以這個部分是因為如果要想要達到這些你剛剛講的分析就必須怎麼樣呢應該第一個經濟部你要請中油自來水公司你所主管的國營事業就不要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13431.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13444.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
因為他電價上漲他也會中油的成本也會提高自來水公司也會提高那經濟部次長可以協調中油自來水公司都不要動漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13448.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13449.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
市長剛剛在經濟委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13471.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13494.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
就是在審查中油的預算所以大家都希望中油不要漲相關的這些油價所以自來水公司下禮拜也會審查我們也會這樣要求那主計總處這邊如果你要達到你剛才的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13496.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13522.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
因為今天有很多那個國營事業的主管機關沒有來了第一個要台鐵要去協調交通部高鐵要去協調請交通部去協調當然我現在只能請主計總處來去協調還有很多的地方的捷運還有這個財政部所屬的煙酒公司等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13524.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13551.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
國民運營事業當然很多的醫療院手尤其是醫療院手不可能關電啊關燈啊最起碼從這個衛福部所屬的來去這個全部都不要要去自行吸收不要動一定要動長那個主計長可以嗎要去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13553.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13575.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
才能達到你剛才的那個報告那個委員這麼多不講到什麼該講所以嘛所以嘛我們這計畫顯然就是要連政府機關的包括國營事業意思說就配合長了所以這個部分是要審慎的絕對要積極的來去協調好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13585.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13593.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
下一位質詢請葉元之葉委員葉元之委員改書面請鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓鍾嘉賓、鍾委員不在請羅志強羅委員主席有請主計總處經濟部台電朱主計長曾次長台電公司總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13622.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13639.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
主計長請問電價漲物價會不會漲按照正常情況之下他有聯手效果應該是會往上非常好可是我們往往美化部長的那個經濟學不太一樣他說不應該以漲電價為由來漲物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13642.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13656.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以意思是電價可以漲但物價要動漲嗎政府要下令動漲物價了嗎跟那個委員報告一下經濟部的報告也都認為說物價會上漲我知道為難你啦完美的話講就是幹話啦就這麼簡單啦一個幹話部長啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13661.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13680.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我再想請教一下一個問題你知道電價調漲你知道北捷電費大概佔北捷的營運成本多少比例大概11%左右我看到數字13你看到11但是反正就是有相當重的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13681.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13705.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那我想請教你喔你知道對於北捷面臨的電費上升然後面臨的營運成本的壓力一年要支出多5億的這個情況你知道陳建仁談到北捷的票價調漲他的回答是什麼你知道嗎陳建仁院長詳細的情況我不曉得他說票價跟漲沒正當性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13708.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13714.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
這邏輯不跟王美花一樣啊不可以漲電價唯有漲物價啊我想請問主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13716.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13743.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
你平常應該有在接觸民生吧 對不對你知道漲電價這一波對我們平民老百姓的壓力非常大嘛 對不對會提高啊商家成本會提高啊可是今天我看到我們政府解放竟然是不可以漲電價唯有漲物價你管不了自己漲電價你去管別人漲物價 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13744.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13756.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
就這個邏輯嗎?是要鴕鳥動長法嗎?所以我跟你講我建議我們的主計總處、主計處主計長你直接跟大家公佈漲電價不會影響物價我們通膨還會下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13759.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13786.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
為什麼你政府一句話不要漲就好啦是這回事嗎跟那個委員報告一下我們的提給今天委員會的一個報告我們就說這個物價會漲多少會有我們告訴主計長現在還在講是未來式因為4月漲電價你知道過去我們的物價就高漲了嗎一直在漲嗎知道吧我公布的我當然知道對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13787.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13814.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那您在答詢曾經問過收入分配不均貧富差距變大你覺得政府責任比較大嘛 對不對我的意思說大家可能有一個不當的連接我的意思說如果是那個是社會上有不公平的現象政府要有貧富差距擴大是個事實嘛這點總不否認吧 對不對然後呢我們勞工時日薪資也在下降啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13815.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13836.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那我想請問貧富差距擴大弱勢越弱勢實質薪資下降勞工也弱勢可是現在你現在看到我們的電價這時候調漲請問我們的老百姓怎麼辦啊跟那個委員報告講所以經濟部的方案有對於那個是一定那個度數以下的他的漲幅比較低 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13837.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13842.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
您的這個破例都不好不夠你要學王美花就一聲令下通通不准漲對不對漲電價不可以漲物價最簡單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13866.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13895.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
再不然還有一招我交給我們的那個主計長啦也很簡單你就跟大家講齁你放心我們這個基本上漲不了多少錢啦這烘焙坊只會漲兩塊錢啦一天只漲兩塊錢啦跟大家用這個方式來宣導我們每個人都覺得漲不了錢基本上心情就快樂一點是不是你知道我們就問台電嘛台電我也很謝謝台電啊台電在這邊嘛我們的美化部長說烘焙坊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13896.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13917.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
一天漲2塊一個月漲60塊我的單區我沒有找到這個烘焙房這樣的烘焙房你找的是只有門市沒有烤箱的對不對這個意思嗎可是一般的烘焙房很多烘焙房有烤箱是一般的吧標配吧除了門市以外啦你要做烘焙你沒有烤箱嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13919.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13939.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
所以回頭就要講今天漲電價人民已經很痛苦了但不需要是一個幹話部長做不死人間煙火的這些所謂的粉飾太平這一點主計長你認同吧跟那個委員報告一下據我知道大規模的那個賣麵包廠都是由中央廚房出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13940.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13961.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
他有沒有烤箱?當然啊!你要不要不然發生在就算你門市沒有他的工廠也有啊我就有遇到有單區的門市也是還是超過700度啊他工廠當然更不用講了加起來夯不啷噹也是一樣啊也是要一萬塊多一個月多一萬塊你台電說的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13964.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13985.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
請問你到底現在你知道我直接跟那個主席講拜託經濟部回去跟部長說一聲啦好不好我們區裡面的那個烘焙業者已經很痛苦了他說我們漲電價很痛苦了為什麼你美華部長還一直消費他們傷口灑鹽嗎一直拿他們做例子他們已經很痛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13987.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14000.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我想跟委員說明一下這一點的狀況是這樣子這個台電提供的案例我今天早上一再就澄清說確實是門市那因為台電的電費價格門市的麵包從哪裡來啊就從工廠來不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14006.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14007.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
倒反過來講就是我們要找一個700度以下的case |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14028.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14030.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
他因為找不到那家麵包店的生氣 欸? |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14030.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14030.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
劉詢廷啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14058.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14074.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
有請主席有請這個主計總處跟經濟部朱主計長、曾次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14089.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14112.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
今天我們一樣要討好討論一下漲電價的問題尤其是要請主計長好好評價一下最近這個經濟部令人傻眼的政策溝通模式來 這個剛剛羅委員應該講得很清楚了大概很難找到只有店面陳列然後麵包不用烤的這種烘焙坊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14113.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14140.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
那這件事情當然被網友酸爆因為大家都覺得說怎麼可能有這樣的事呢即便你只是陳列因為前端也是要烘焙嘛對不對所以這個漲幅一定會有所轉嫁所以你這當然被人家罵爆那我覺得經濟部處理也是很天才啦罵爆之後然後又變了一個版本啦說欸我可以改用喔這個離峰時段的用電啊我還可以幫你節省一萬七啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14141.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14157.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那我就代表這個人民就提一下質詢啊大家都問說請問哪一家烘焙房可以半夜烤麵包啊市長你要不要回答一下哪家烘焙房在半夜烤麵包為了省電費那個跟委員報告現在離峰的電價不只半夜白天也是他還有半離峰嘛裡面鬼扯了還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14158.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14177.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
這不是規則這是事實這是事實喔對啊就是有離峰有各種不同的那個間離峰電價時間電價可以選擇以你對這個烘焙產業的了解他們是可以配合你電價的調整然後去改變他的這個產品出貨的時間嗎跟委員報告辦離峰的時候就是在賣的時候所有東西都要準備好了嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14179.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14196.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我這樣講他們要迴避的最主要就是夜間封就是16點到22點這段時間那依照我們看到就是烘焙房它是真的有烘焙設備烤箱的事實上是真的可以做這個調節但是我還是要再說一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14196.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14210.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
前面這個我們舉的例子我們是要去找700度以下的例子我們找了一個這一個你就找了一個荒唐例子我告訴你你要叫他改時間你也是很奇怪啦除非你可以很清楚的講說哪些麵包店因為你這樣的政策然後我真的改變了時間有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14212.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14231.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我這樣說我們有具體的例子確實有他們開始調整為就是低壓的時間電價那個是對於他們的整個電費的調整是有幫助的我有具體的案例這個有但我還是要再說一次我們本來要找一個700度以下找了一個北部連鎖麵包房這個例子真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14232.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14235.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
市長我直接問比較大的問題啦貴部的部長喔這個汪美花部長直接講說這個產業不要調漲物價就好啦請問這句話是做得到的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14243.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14268.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我想他好像不是這樣講啦他好像不是這樣講他沒有說產業不要調整物價就好了應該不是這個樣子那他是怎麼講的我覺得那個本意應該是這樣就是說我們的電價調整在每個不同的產業類別他對生產的成本的提升的反應會有不同那我們也是試算了就是如果這一個事情讓大家所有的東西都漲這也不見得完全合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14269.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14284.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我們只是在講說描述我想說這一個部分因為部長表達也透過媒體報導那我知道的狀況是說我們這一個調整主要是我們針對很我跟你講電價上漲影響電價上漲帶動通貨膨脹的理據是非常簡單的嘛因為大家生產都是產業鏈嘛你電價上漲幾乎整條產業鏈都會受到影響不是嗎從源頭一路到零售都會影響不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14293.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14313.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因為台灣的電力結構是這樣子我們的製造業大概佔了六成你貴部的部長講說這個業界不要漲物價就好這句話做不做得到如果沒有做到誰負責我想問的是誰負責我想部長應該不是直接講不要漲物價市長那這樣子我直接問你啦這一波電價的調漲會不會帶動通貨膨脹 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14316.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14316.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
福度是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14331.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14357.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
復讐今天我們的報告來主計長說明一下你報告有寫吧總部會答不出來來主計長我們主計總處的估計是大概是0.18%0.18%對你要不要逆均令狀實質上超過的時候誰負責預測沒有逆均令狀的啦因為是不同的情勢會有不同的不同的情勢又有不同的變化所以我們大概每大概3個月就會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14357.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14380.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
做一次那個預測的修正處長你認不認同經濟部用700度以下用烘焙房當成案例啊詳細的情況我對烘房業不了解烘焙業也不了解喔你不是很多了解小吃的價格嗎我價格我又不管它的製造過程我大家都以為你既管這個又管那個那就是人家說我主計治國了但是喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14381.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14406.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
主計長製造的過程應該有用電的問題吧這是常識你應該不會反對吧所以電價的調漲影響整條產業鏈的時候影響的通膨真的只有0.18嗎我們的估計是說因為他是4月1號開始全年是0.24但是4月1號開始所以你就稍微往下修了一點那萬一實際上超過的時候怎麼辦實際上超過的時候怎麼辦預測不準不好意思這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14409.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14428.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我主計長不能主計治國這樣嗎事實上每一個機構的預測都很接近我們跟那個央行的預測也是只差大概是0.09個百分點跟央行預測也差0.09個百分點你們到底幾個人要立軍令狀我本期在這邊只是嚴肅提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14428.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14458.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14462.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14468.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
王美惠王美惠委員王美惠王委員不在請楊瓊英楊委員質詢好謝謝主席楊瓊英發言首先想請台電請台電台電公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14485.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14507.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我們台電公開的資訊說核電今年度每度成本僅剩下1.1元還遠低於燃氣的3.2元再生能源的5元那現在我們兩部核能機組跟當時的六部來比我們會少掉多少億度電呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14511.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14531.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
如果容量因素都完整的話合二大概是150合一100你沒有回答本席的提問所以我告訴你我告訴你會少掉了250億度電那如果以綠電全面的來替代你光光你的燃料支出就要將近1000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14533.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14557.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
那所以呢你即使以燃氣來取代你台電也要增加500多億500多億好這個是在你們官方的網站告訴我們的所以本期請教請教董事長也是次長喔台電去年你花了905億來購這個再生能源嘛那你今年我們看到你的預算是編列1325億你增加了420億 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14561.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14587.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
但是核電這兩年將退役完畢因為我們在經濟委員會討論過了幾次你說現在沒有研議的可能那現在會不會再改呢?會不會有研議的討論?核電有研議的討論嗎?根委員報告就是我們現在依照現行的法令就是沒有辦法研議啊那沒有辦法研議好你們要不要研議? |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14588.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14609.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
不要先結果論再反推啊 要研議什麼事情都好談 對不對 不要拿法來做依據我本席之所以將這個背景數字告訴你 因為我們接下來採購如果不改 我們接下來採購的財政人員的經費編列你會更高 那你更高你是不是又要拿我們人民開刀 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14610.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14628.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
那個再生能源的採購等購費率的部分其實台灣算是在一定時間之內就不要再告訴我這個人民很痛苦了你一漲價光光剛剛我們在經濟委員會中油都要增加8億我們已經做成決議這個8億不能轉嫁到我們的消費者我們剛剛在經濟委員會做成決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14637.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14666.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
所以本期要請教第一個議題會不會有研議的考量王總經理要不要請王總經理回答你們有沒有這個考量還是政治問題報告委員我們現在面臨的問題是像核二跟核一就是它的燃料棒在燃料池裡面拿不出來所以光這個問題就卡住了人民如果聽到我們台電公司這樣的回答真的會痛苦死 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14667.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14684.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
因為本席剛剛告訴你如果沒有其他的作為你一定要增加多少錢那這些會轉嫁到我們民眾嗎還是我們還要做一個決議因為這樣子不能再轉嫁到我們的人民身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14685.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14708.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
這是政府誒這是政府告訴你這些數字你們好好去思考因為如果依照我們剛剛所說的那麼能源成本會逐年下降那接下來的經費你們的編列應該會下降很多啊可是你告訴我們的是從905億你要增加到多少增加到1325億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14710.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14735.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那怎麼頭尾講的都不一樣呢?那人民要聽頭還是聽尾啊?董事長我跟委員報告就是我們講說燃料成本因為其實再生能源那個是購電成本那個沒有燃料我想說燃料的部分國際價格在變化這一段這是兩個事情那購電的成本再生能源購電的成本的狀況是他懂購費率確定的時候就確定進入情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14739.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14744.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
兩個不一樣的事情它是有關聯的那購電已經確認就確認國際情勢確認就確認那我們民眾怎麼辦我把這個功課給你我把這個功課給你核電退後你是不是會繼續再漲電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14756.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14784.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個是我們不容許的所以明天在大院裡頭我們有提了一個案不能再漲在今年度我希望行政部門也要支持我們藍白綠我相信所有的委員都會顧民心的啦讓這個國家還可以持續在運轉啦好不好我把這個功課給你你好好去思考相信書面資料給本席是否會繼續漲電價請你書面資料給本席本席想請教央行跟主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14787.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14804.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
請楊總裁朱主計長主席長跟央行楊總裁今天的報告電價漲會不會影響到物價請教兩位主席長會不會影響我們兩個的報告都有講說會影響那央行你升息了還有電價漲了會不會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14814.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14816.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
下個月即將開始,會不會漲? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14831.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14843.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我再請教央行總裁我們本家我們的預測呢是第一季跟第二季呢我們的物價都還是會超過2%會超過齁主席長你聽到了齁那就誠如剛剛央行總裁所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14849.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14873.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
今年度4月份開始他會調漲11%到15%的電價那也認為會直接影響到我們的物價漲以及通膨所以在這樣的一個情況之下本席想要請教兩位也就首先請教楊總裁這一次的這樣的情況那未來我們要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14875.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14903.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
主計總處跟您都告訴我們你升息跟他都告訴我們說你們會以照顧人民與維持物價穩定為優先你們有優先嗎有啊有啊怎麼優先繼續升息照優先不過我跟委員報告以目前我們的預測我們的物價是在今年是會持續的會往下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14904.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14907.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
市協會往下的,去年呢是... 物價會緩下來? |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14907.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14908.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
什麼原因啊?你有什麼妙方? |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14908.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14909.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
跟經濟部一樣叫我們什麼時間才可以烤麵包? |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14909.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14910.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
還可以省4萬塊? |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14910.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14910.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
會啦,會,還是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14921.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14942.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
我的眼睛瞪大了欸剛剛我也跟委員報告就是說我們第一季第二季呢社會物價會2%以上但是第三季第四季第三季會接近2第四季會2%以下什麼理由請告訴我基本上呢我們也就是說第一個他的那個什麼那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14943.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14945.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
委員我給你一個數據但是我要告訴你你所說的是正常狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14959.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14978.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我們現在加注了很多非正常的不可抗的因素加在裡面如果到你說一二季會二不四以上第三季就會開始緩下 這都有錄音錄音我告訴你 漲了就退不回來我們要不要賭一碗什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14984.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15008.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
讀一碗排骨麵央行總裁說第三季我們的物價會下降我跟委員報告難怪有聲音說九月份電價還要漲第一季我們在三月份的時候做這樣的預測但是資訊會慢慢的進來你說的第三季我們的物價會下降我跟委員報告是不是讀一碗排骨麵 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15010.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15027.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
台中的最有名的我跟委員報告就是說物價我們現在就說第一季第二季這個就是說是以目前的情況來估測目前的情況現在我們預測4月中就開始電價漲了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15029.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15047.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
但是我們在6月份的時候呢我們會再重新再估測你現在回復6月份但是我還是要跟你賭這一碗台中的排骨麵我們6月份我們會再做這個啦你出錢我帶你去吃你絕對輸的啦如果以你現在的這個方向所以最後一句話朱記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15049.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15064.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
你所有的薪資不管你服務業什麼業3萬多5萬多工業服務業尤其在工業跟服務的薪資破8萬的這個方式你在計算的時候工業的這個納進應該是最有參考值的 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15068.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15084.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那個跟委員報告他在外界說這個八萬多為什麼這麼高是因為一月份的時候有些企業是都已經花有花年終獎金所以我們這邊是總薪資所以你的計算你是主計總處你竟然告訴我們是這樣的原因你把它加入在這裡面做平均值這樣對人民不公平吧還是一樣啊要來一個粉飾太平的啊莫名其妙的圖卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15097.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15120.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我們沒有說粉色太平洋我們主計總是沒有做主管因為我們也公布總薪資也有公布經常性薪資經常性薪資只有4萬3千多所以我告訴你啦薪資調漲了跟降高的薪資是集中在某特定的產業的部分小部分所以以後不要這樣子做啦這樣子做對人民是不公平的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15121.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15121.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15151.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15157.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
下一位質詢請蘇清泉蘇委員不在請黃國昌黃委員質詢謝謝主席,馬上有請楊總裁請楊總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15183.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15192.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
你要按麥克風抱歉抱歉抱歉我沒有按其實我們很敬重總裁的專業所以我的質詢不會花時間在請教總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15200.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15222.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
電價調漲、物價會不會跟著調漲這麼基本的問題上我想一般的百姓從大家每個人的生活經驗都知道答案是什麼在國會殿堂討論這麼基本的問題其實是有一天當然也是因為行政部門硬拗所以很多委員看不下去所以一定要站出來以正視聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15224.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15239.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我今天想要請教總裁的其實我真的更關心的是我們的金融政策跟房價兩個之間的互動關係我向來的立場是金融政策我們希望把資金引導到實體經濟的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15241.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15269.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
實體經濟的發展對國家對社會對一般人對勞工才都有好處嘛實體的基金資金不應該被引導到炒作特別是炒作房地產總裁我相信您認同吧對沒有錯那我們具體來看齁2020年央行警告不動產的貸款占整個銀行的總放款的比例35.8已經太高了現在是2024嘛現在是往上還往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15270.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15286.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
現在是37.3所以往上嘛比你2020年提出警訊的時候還要更高嘛是高了一點多他整個所造成的影響我帶總裁看2016年到2023年這個是建築貸款喔建築貸款從2016年的一兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15296.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15311.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
6000多億到現在已經是3兆2258億了總裁你會不會認為就有關於金融機構在放款上一直不斷的集中在銀行建築業貸款不是一個健康的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15312.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15333.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
以目前來看的話37.4因為我們的二月份是37.3那如果說跟35點多是提高了一點不過到目前為止我覺得還可以央行其實你們的報告我都會很仔細的拜讀你們央行做出來的比較專業當你 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15336.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15358.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
純粹在看percentage的時候你用year on Year去看年度的變化率的時候我老實跟總裁報告從統計的觀點隱藏了非常多的故事你以實際上面它總量上面來看這個曲線圖就非常清楚的知道問題有多嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15359.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15372.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我這個孩子是用銀行建築貸款喔如果我們進一步的再加上購入整個房地產放款的話那個數字是什麼更是驚人喔從之前每個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15375.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15383.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
286億是增加的喔到後來最近這幾年月增了717億中間有一個關鍵的時間點是2018年的8月2018年8月以前月增是286億2018年8月以後到現在月增是717億這個數字很可怕喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15396.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15404.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
每個月增加的金額總裁您知不知道2018年8月的時候發生了什麼事情造成這麼劇烈的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15406.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15430.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我想就是說您要講的大概就是說是講那個中美貿易衝突不是沒有關係我不要考總裁我沒有資格考總裁這樣對你比較不濟我直接切入正題銀行法72條之二這個可以說是銀行不動場放款的天條嘛72條之二它立法規範的意旨是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15432.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15452.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
對也就是說要不要讓這個資源呢太集中在房地產他要求的是什麼不可以超過百分之三十嗎但是什麼他下面法律有一些但書嗎如果你要去買房子的話購屋貸款住宅的貸款國宅的貸款他把它放但書 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15453.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15474.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
放袋書這個是在30%的天花板他開了一個小小的後門為了要便利購物主這是法律明定的但我今天要請教總裁的問題是什麼在2018年8月31號的時候我們的金管會竟然透過行政命令的方式大幅鬆綁銀行法72條之二大開後門 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15478.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15503.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
裡面列了一堆什麼?裡面列了一堆例外的狀況連購置廠房喔連購置廠房這種全部都把它排除在30%上限天條的天花板的範圍之外對於金管會這樣子的政策央行贊成嗎?我基本上金管會的一個政策我們也是還是尊重他們的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15505.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15533.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
他們處理是micro的嘛央行要處理的是macro的嘛你要看整體的嘛但我今天之所以直接挑這個題目來請教央行的總裁是今晚會他們在做這一個錯誤的政策決定的時候在總體上面所產生的影響我為什麼花那麼多的時間把這些數字全部拼湊起來把趨勢很清楚的跟總裁報告謝謝你 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15535.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15556.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
有時候金管會他們透過法律未必有授權給他們的權利去開了這個後門的時候對於整體金融放款以及整體經濟乃至於實體經濟的發展以及助長不動產炒作這樣子歪風的時候我希望央行有的時候要表現你們的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15558.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15570.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
要表現你們的態度啊那告訴金管會說你們怎麼會這樣做呢房價已經不斷的在飆升了不動場放款數額比例不斷的在升高了你們還一直在開後門這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15574.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15594.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
總裁,您覺得我講的有沒有道理?是啦,有道理啦。有嘛!我得到總裁的肯定,非常的高威信。不過我的意思也就是說,委員的一個建議也是好的。也就是說,金管會是個體,我們是總體。那基於總體的一個職者呢,有些時候呢,我們也要跟金管會來溝通。 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15595.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15606.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
雖然後面沒有委員了啦但總裁你放心我不會在這邊暢所欲言半小時讓你沒有辦法回去休息我最後只秀一個我最後只秀一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15608.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15630.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
在2018年開了這個大後門了以後他所增加的整體的不動產的放款佔全體放款的比例高達44%我們剛剛那個曲線爬升很高的全部都進入了什麼不動產放款當中所以過去這幾年為什麼過去這八年房價不斷的攀升 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15632.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15656.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
讓這麼多的錢跑到不動產的市場當中助長炒作這一定是要非常嚴肅啊非常非常嚴肅啊面對的問題我最後只有一個請求啦就是說央行在面對這一種總體的金融政策的時候有的時候要幫我們台灣的年輕人要幫我們台灣的下一代說幾句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15657.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15678.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
因為央行的一個政策決定事實上它可以產生的影響是非常非常大的總裁你能不能承諾我說央行一定會持續非常密切的關注說我們不應該讓那麼多的油資讓那麼多銀行金融的放款跑到不動產 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15679.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15692.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
造成了房價不斷的攀升我想委會委員的一個建議我們事實上我們是密切在觀察密切在注意謝謝你的建議啦好 謝謝先為質詢請友好友好友好 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15707.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15736.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
有委員不在請李博義李博義李博義李博義李委員不在請鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭委員不在今日登記法院委員均已詢答完畢一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15737.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15759.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
嚴寬衡、陳玉珍、徐巧欣、吳春成、葉元之所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆是本次會議程已進行完畢如果有不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15780.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15791.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15802.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15803.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
委員會主席 |