| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4b9db3dc7042177ad0f248dc87b6a0a4aab8b86039943efc8660580be526682109889872e64f964c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:34:37 - 11:47:16 |
| 影片長度 |
759 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於考試院及所屬主管收支部分。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院考選部主管「考選業務基金」收支部分。
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公務人員退休撫卹基金」收支部分。
四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於考試院銓敘部主管「公教人員個人專戶制退撫儲金基金」收支部分。
五、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於考試院主管預算凍結項目共4案。
【第一案至第四案僅進行詢答；預算提案於12月3日中午12時截止收件】
【11月25日及27日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席,那我們麻煩秘書長以及蔡主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.253 |
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53.384 |
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就是我在主要討論一下就是這個霸凌的問題那我想說其實事情前陣子勞動部的那個事情之後其實非常多人都打電話到我辦公室就我現在目前收到非常多有衛福部的有疾管署的還有調查站調查局調查站的還有社會局的就打電話到我辦公室然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
55.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
就是他們很多人來這邊的時候都跟我們講說長官就天天罵啦然後不然就是抓底下人來背黑鍋啦然後什麼都對的都長官拿錯的都怪同仁去抓戰犯就很多人打電話來都說官官相護那些來的都是來講的都是一些公務員啦所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
95.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
112.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這是一個長期的問題那為什麼我們這個會期我們一直在推接避者保護法因為我們總是覺得說還是要讓機關公部門或是一些國營企業甚至有人認為私部門也要要一些人能夠勇於出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
113.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
115.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分關於考試院考選部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在考試院主管法規裡面目前並沒有霸凌的定義那現在霸凌的定義人事總書的那個指引裡面是有一個說明那他也參考了就是勞動部這一職場霸凌的那個指引的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那當然這個部分如果我們要接下來法制化的過程中我們對這個定義也需要再來檢視跟找專家討論。那這個秘書長你們要照理思考這個點因為這個名詞就是太不確定法律概念了所以有的人打電話過來他講了半天那我們的同仁我們同仁都是當過公務員很多都當過公務員那他們都要去思考到底符不符合所謂霸凌這兩個字的定義也就是說考試院這邊並沒有一個明確的這個定義出來那變成到底什麼樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
187.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
後面修法的過程中會把各位的委員的意見都納入思考跟討論因為為什麼我會這樣提因為就像我昨天有開一個公聽會就是打詐的公聽會那其實打詐一個很重要的點就是我們要先讓這些民眾知道什麼樣的東西它可能是詐騙的訊息所以試詐是在打詐之前要怎麼樣辨別 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
225.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他們就是自己已經遭受騙了那一樣怎麼樣去識別霸凌也是將來的一個問題嘛所以我才會說麻煩你們一定要特別注意一下這個點就像剛很多人在批評那個剛上任的那個勞動部部長洪森翰說他19號在那個一個節目裡面就有透露說在公務員輕生之前呢他就有聽過這個謝一龍的這個鬼故事他也有向勞動部反映但是呢即便是執政黨籍的立委向勞動部反映也毫無作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這個東西到底要怎麼樣去評斷呢?變成說現行保障公務員的這個規定已經失靈了嘛那考試院這個是一個很重要的你們的一個職責啊那你們不能說連這個定義到現在都還沒有一個明確的定義出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我還是要這個部分要麻煩你們因為總是要讓公務員知道什麼是霸凌那他才能夠知道要怎麼申訴其實我跟你講趕出來申訴的公務員已經很少了啦我自己以前在當基層檢察官的時候也沒少過被場官霸凌啦那我們也都我這輩子沒有申訴過 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
297.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以更不要講檢察官法官還是都是獨立辦案有一定的權利更不要講基層公務員或是那個那個反正我覺得這個我想只要在現場當公務員的多少都能夠體會我的想法我想請問一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這次事件勞動部有說要修治安法,那考試院作為保障還有培訓全國公務員的主管機關,在這個事件發生之後有沒有去思考就公務人員安全跟衛生防護辦法要去做修正?有沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
各位報告,其實上禮拜我跟蔡主委還有司事部長就這個事件新聞事件交換意見的時候我們也覺得法制面的部分包含保障法跟安慰辦法的部分都可以來強化那把這個霸凌的那個能夠做法制化的研究那昨天在立法院審查那個考試院被提名人的時候那這個院長被提名人周前副院長他也有做相關的宣示我想這個就會是接下來考試院積極的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
366.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這次勞動部事件沒有出來之前大家就是也不敢多講但這次事情出來之後其實有非常多的人就敢出來說話就像之前有一段時間在燒那個咪兔事件一樣就很多被害人都一個一個出來那目前我們那個人事行政總處他有一個員工職場霸凌防治跟處理流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
384.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是各個機關到底要不要訂這個作業的規定其實到現在也都不知道那機關不訂好像也沒有什麼法律效果就算訂了好像也沒有什麼處理的效果所以到最後大家還是回到公務員保障法的方式去申訴所以到時候還是要換你們頭痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
434.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個機制更明確一點我想就是讓員工知道說如果真的發生事情的時候他應該尋求什麼樣的管道來處理那事至785號其實也有提到就是說我們要保障這些政府公務員的健康權嘛這也是考試院業務裡面的重中之重所以麻煩一下你們要去思考在這次事情發生之後考試院到底能夠為公務員做什麼相關的修法該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
435.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
為什麼我今天會提這個?其實我國的勞工有那個資安法在保障他們但是資安法它能夠適用到的公務人員可能就只有基於譬如說公職的醫護人員或者是教師那除了這個之外的公務員是不被這個資安法所保護的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
479.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那最近有一些團體其實出來一直在喊說希望把公務員一併那個列入這治安法的保障範圍內而有蠻多團體出來由書記官的團體警察的團體消防員的團體也有很多公務員的團體都有出來去喊話這個你們大概上網都查得到那我想一下請問一下秘書長你們對這有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
482.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
500.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
521.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
公務員會比較有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
549.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
575.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為現在公務員大部分的公務員他只有適用保訓會的那個公務人員那個安全衛生辦法就只有這個那這個保障是不是足夠那我可能要麻煩你們能夠去思考就這一次事件發生之後我們能不能夠把這個衛生辦法能夠修正看能不能更保障現在的公務員因為每個打電話過來的人其實他們都是滿腹苦水 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
578.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
公務員比勞工更不敢申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
610.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
但是事實上為什麼我能夠理解很多單位、很多團體他們會出來希望公務員也一併適用這個治安法因為其實你說職場上面的這個安全、危險、健康或不健康、職災的這些風險其實並沒有分公部門跟私部門大家都一樣危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
611.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以我希望說對於勞工的保障還是盡量能夠對於公務員的保障盡量能夠更普遍一點更良善一點那個案例辦法反而就有修改研修的計畫那我們併同接下來這個保障法的修法會一併來處理那你這個辦法的修改能不能給我們一分因為辦法你們要改很快阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
636.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
安慰辦法本來的修改計劃,但是它因為一直跟消防員安全提升這個議題有納入討論所以當時就對於修安慰辦法還是用職安法還是用消防法哪一個管道來處理比較適當那最後立法院也三讀通過了消防法的修改所以我們會搭配的這個消防這個三讀後的這個消防法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
658.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
678.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
然後來設計我們這邊對於這個植物相關風險的部分。好,那再麻煩你們把相關的資料給我們,因為我們畢竟我辦公室現在主要還是法律人才,我希望說我們能夠看一下,那我們如果有這個能力能夠給一點建議,我們也希望給一些建議。因為我拉了非常多以前公部門的同仁來立法院幫忙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
679.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
681.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部總預算案附屬單位預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
701.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
717.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
717.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
718.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
737.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
收支部分關於考試院考選部主管收支 |
| IVOD_ID |
157522 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157522 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-16 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-27T11:34:37+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-27T11:47:16+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |