| IVOD_ID |
15751 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15751 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-25T08:30:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-25T13:35:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:04:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68510c940d6246953a290a0be61fea148183be8d109af184be4f6273d13c8ed43235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:30 - 13:35:00 |
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中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
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1780.615 |
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出席委員已主法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年3月20日星期三9時至13時29分3月21日星期四9時1分至12時42分 |
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1801.71 |
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1830.097 |
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地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員陳昭芝等15人列席委員吳佩義等29人列席官員3月20日勞動部部長許明春及衛生福利部政務次長李立芬等相關人員3月21日環境部部長薛復聖等相關人員主席王兆吉委員喻敏3月20日報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路 |
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1830.737 |
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1843.421 |
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如何落實僱主責任進行專題報告．並備質詢。邀請衛生福利部勞動部教育部就《完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業行能工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為進行專題報告．並備質詢。 |
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1846.542 |
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1865.722 |
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本日會議專題報告綜合詢答由勞動部部長及衛生福利部政務次長報告後委員陳昭芝等24人提出質詢軍警勞動部部長許明春衛生福利部政務次長李立芬及教育部學生事務及特殊教育司司長吳林輝及各相關主管等及其答覆委員楊耀、王宏維、張祺凱 |
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1868.104 |
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1895.063 |
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秋政軍所提書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定通過臨時提案實項3月21日邀請環境部部長、經濟部、農業部國家發展委員會、行政院國家永續發展委員會就加速推動再生能源對國土環境之影響 |
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1899.547 |
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環境影響評估認定標準修訂進度進行專題報告．並備質詢。本日會議由環境部部長報告後委員陳昭芝等21人提出質詢均經環境部部長、經濟部常務次長林全能、農業部資源永續利用司司長莊老達及國家發展委員會經濟發展處處長吳明慧及各相關主管等即席答覆 |
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1919.426 |
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1944.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
委員楊耀、蘇清泉、陳冠廷及盧憲一所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定通過臨時提案五項宣讀完畢請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1946.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1947.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1973.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1999.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
討論事項一案以上專題報告及討論事項才綜合詢答那接下來先介紹在場的委員及列席官員王振旭委員林月琴委員陳昭芝委員林淑芬委員王育明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2002.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2025.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們接下來介紹今天的列席官員勞動部部長許明春許部長勞動力發展署蔡猛良署長勞工保險局白立貞局長職業安全衛生署周子蓮署長勞動及職業安全衛生研究所李伯昌所長綜合規劃司王厚誠司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2030.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2054.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
勞動關係司王厚偉司長勞動保險司陳美女司長勞動福祉退休司謝倩倩司長勞動條件及就業平等司黃維琛司長勞動法務司傅惠芝司長會計處林美信處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2056.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2073.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員丘碧珠專門委員。好,那現在進行本次議程報告事項第二案處理113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案20案請一併宣讀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2075.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2081.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
處理勞動部行為中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議分別檢送該部主管預算凍結案共計20案一、勞動部決議二、第三目綜合規劃業務預算凍結20萬元二、勞動部決議三、第四目勞動關係業務預算凍結10萬元三、勞動部決議四、第五目勞動福祉退休業務預算凍結10萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2098.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2102.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
四、勞動部決議五、第六目勞動條件及就業平等業務預算凍結10萬元五、勞動部決議六、第七目勞動法務業務預算凍結10萬元六、勞動部決議30、第六目勞動條件及就業平等業務預算凍結20萬元七、勞動部決議31、第7目勞動法務業務預算凍結10萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2118.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2125.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
八、勞工保險局決議一第一目一般行政預算凍結50萬元九、勞工保險局決議二第二目保險業務預算凍結50萬元十、勞動力發展署及所屬決議一勞動力發展署及所屬預算凍結20萬元十一、勞動力發展署及所屬決議二第二目向下綜合規劃預算凍結1%十二、勞動力發展署及所屬決議三第二目向下就業服務預算凍結10萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2142.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2146.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
13、勞動力發展署及所屬決議4第4目向下強化技能檢定基準預算凍結1%14、勞動力發展署及所屬決議13、勞動力發展署及所屬預算凍結10萬元15、職業安全衛生署決議1第3目一般行政預算凍結20萬元16、職業安全衛生署決議2第4目職業安全衛生業務預算凍結20萬元17、職業安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2166.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2184.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
衛生署決議三第四目向下建全職業安全衛生管理及制度預算凍結10萬元18職業安全衛生署決議四第四目向下建構職場安全及推動防災措施預算凍結10萬元19職業安全衛生署決議24第四目職業安全衛生業務預算凍結10萬元20勞動及職業安全衛生研究所決議一第二目勞動及職業安全衛生研究預算凍結20萬元宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2195.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2211.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結報告案計20案有沒有意義?沒有。那先做以下決議。均同意動之並提報院會。接下來請勞動部許部長就本次會議議程並按報告。時間5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2221.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2248.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席各位委員女士先生大家好感謝各位委員對本部及所屬機關業務的支持今天針對事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度作業流程及必要教育訓練並落實職場防災管理及113年預算凍結案部分辦理情形分別進行報告敬請各位委員指教首先針對事業單位應加強安全衛生管理及必要教育訓練並落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2250.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2274.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
職場防災部分說明建構安全健康的勞動環境是我國國家永續發展目標之一也是本部重要的施政重點政府依循兩公約及相關國際人權公約將工作者生命健康權列為基本人權並秉持讓人人享有安全衛生的工作環境的願景結合各界資源積極推展各項職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2275.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2295.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
的檢災工作以促使職業災害保險給付千人率至2014年的3.467逐年下降至2023年的2.222略見成效為今年仍發生多起重大公安事件例如蓮華食品公司的彰化廠火災 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2295.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2314.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
民養國際公司爆炸事故及台中捷運遭塔掉壁撞擊等事件均造成多人死傷經分析災災根本的原因多為不安全的環境及不安全的行為所造成為此本部所採取的重要措施說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2315.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2342.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
首先是強化監督檢查效能督促事業單位落實自主管理本部針對高風險廠廠實施專案檢查將高風險、高質災的事業列為優先檢查對象並以勤查嚴法的方式要求違法事業單位改善同時督促高風險事業單位推動職業安全衛生管理系統此外因為營造業的死亡人數佔全產業近一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2344.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2365.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
災害類型以最弱職災為主,所以本部將今年定為營造業最弱打擊年,優先要求營造業落實最弱預防開始,並以建築工程為主要對象,針對臨時性開口及施工價等意造成最弱災害的部分提升檢查、裁罰及停工的強度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2366.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2380.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
另對於具爆炸危害化學工廠製程安全管理部分本部除了配合相關部會積查並配合檢討、修正化學品運作管理相關法規以掌握化學品的運作資訊、適時實施監督檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2383.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2408.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在公司協力擴展防災夥伴合作量能部分本部職安署各勞動檢查機構與高風險事業締結安全夥伴關係並強化企業高階主管安全領導決心以協助提升其安全衛生水準另針對中小企業資源較為不足的部分本部結合工協會協助其改善工作環境及製程的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2408.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2431.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
另外推動在地化勞工健康服務透過宣導、輔導與補助督促事業單位落實勞工身心健康的保護在加強部會合作、跨域治理強化源頭管理方面本部持續與經濟部、內政部、交通部等主管部會合作就其所管事業及公共工程實施聯合協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2434.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2439.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
全體安全衛生的提升還有定期從環境部的化學雲篩選使用危險物的事業單位清測協助各勞動檢查機構掌握使用大量危險物的製造工廠並依風險納管監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2459.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2472.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在提升安全衛生資能與公安文化紮根部分要求勞動檢查機構將起重機、堆高機等機具操作或有害作業人員教育訓練為檢查重點並積極推行臺灣職安卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2475.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2501.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
職業安全衛生數位學習平台鼓勵勞工線上訓練提升防災的應變智能最後要強調的是本部將持續運用有限的檢查人力以風險分級方式鎖定目標實施監督檢查督促事業單位落實職場防災管理對中小企業則以宣導輔導及設施補助等方式提供協助同時也將持續以多元的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2502.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2517.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
結合各界資源提升全民公安意識建構良好職場安全文化有關113年預算凍結案部分辦理情形報告在改善勞保財務部分目前勞保的給付支出雖然大於勞保的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2518.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2527.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
保費收入但短期內保費的收支缺口尚可由政府的撥補及基金的餘額來支應。 112年勞保整體收支順差1205億元基金累存餘額為8729億餘元隨著我國人口結構改變與其他國家實施年金制度的經驗相同勞保財務的負擔將減去沉重 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2543.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2561.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
為健全年金的制度參考他國經驗,多次透過多管旗下的開源節流措施檢討制度的收入面及己負面並搭配政府撥補穩定基金流量,採嚴謹循序漸進方式規劃逐步建構穩健的年金制度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2562.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2576.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因此為確保勞保制度穩健運作本部透過依法調整費率積極強化納保及給付審核等行政作為即至109年前連續5年撥補勞保基金並提高撥補金額總計編列預算為2,670億元以協助增加基金收入未來本部仍將視財務狀況持續辦理撥補事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2587.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2597.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
針對未來勞保制度調整方向及推動期程考量制度調整有關勞工權益順序目前各界仍有不同意見如多數勞工反對調降給付 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2598.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2616.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
希望政府役助更多資源之方則認為費力調整應考量企業負擔本部將秉持審慎的態度持續收集溝通各界意見在兼顧保障目的公平性及財務負擔的原則下研議因應對策週延規劃推動期程與確保勞工給付權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2620.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2640.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
另針對委員關心勞動保險相關說明會的實施成效部分為此投保單位確實遵循相關法規保障勞工的權益本部每年度都會舉辦說明會未來將根據精進相關宣導必發揮最大的效益最後有關災保法新增部分私人年金及 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2640.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2656.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
已屬一次經起覆的適用說明部分．今邀請學者專家嚴商認為前該起覆是《勞保條例》所無之新政規定因此災保法施行前發生實在事故的對保險人依該條例並沒有起覆請求權 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2658.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2672.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不適用災保法第103條的規定本部僅遵照決議事項積極辦理以上為本部推動職業安全衛生情形另113年預算系業務所需敬請各位委員給予支持並會事指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2677.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2689.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報現在開始詢答做以下宣告本會委員詢答時間為6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2694.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2709.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
委員如有書面質詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息10分鐘本次會議不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝委員謝謝主席麻煩請許部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2723.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2736.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
陳副委員好部長早安部長請問您知道我們去年6月跟這個美國完成臺美21世紀的這個貿易這個倡議第一階段的協商您了解我們已經完成了第一階段的協商那部長知道接下來的第二段協商的談判內容會涉及到跟勞動部直接相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2744.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2748.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
勞動權益是非常重要的關鍵議題因為過去美國在跟其他的國家包括加拿大、墨西哥等等簽訂所謂的美加墨貿易協定的時候他會要求對方國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2765.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2769.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
法規要符合國際核心的勞動基礎例如2019年的時候美國眾議院的議長培洛西他要求這個墨西哥必須完全建立保障勞工的權益的一個立法而且他很清楚的表示除非墨西哥的新的法令到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2782.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2786.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
確保墨西哥勞工有組織公會的權利否則眾議院不會去審議這個協定後來墨西哥國內訂了立法然後強化勞工的權利最終美國也同意了簽署才通過這個貿易協定那我們回到今天的臺美21世紀的貿易倡議請問部長勞動部準備好了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2804.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2809.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
報告委員我們現在其實都還在協商討論當中已經開過幾次會甚至我們的同仁也到美國去師長也有過去有跟他們當面面對面的做一些討論協商部長我其實有點擔心因為去年6月完成第一段協定但7月24號的時候在立法院這邊有審查當時委員有通過了一些附帶的這個決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2826.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2836.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就是為其我國勞動的法規符合國際核心勞動基準還有能夠順利推動這個臺美貿易協定所以那當時請行政院三個月內邀請那個專家學者還有民間團體來進行研商盤點及檢討相關法規那因為勞動部是負責這個勞動法律主管機關所以行政院交給你們來負責找這個專家學者跟民間團體來溝通盤點相關法規那部長您記得這件事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2852.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2854.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育、訓練．並落實職場防災管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2873.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2897.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
結果你們回復說有開了三場十大核心勞動公約法規的檢視會議但是其中兩場是在之前在這個二月跟四月也就是說針對這個附帶決議你們三個月來做的就只有一件事只召開一次會議那我想了解勞動部是覺得本來的準備就已經很完整了很充足了只要再開這麼一次會議就可以來因應這個貿易談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2899.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2916.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
國際社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1次全體委員會第2次全體委員會第3次全體委員會第4次全體委員會第5次全體委員會第6次全體委員會第7次全體委員會第8次全體委員會第8次全體委員會第9次全體委員會第10次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第13次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第14次全體委員會第15次全體委員會第15次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第16次全體委員會第17次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第18次全體委員會第19次全 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2921.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2946.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
不等於這個問題是在進行中所以我們是非常關心我們來看看這三次會議當中討論哪些議題就是在符合十大的這個核心勞動公約總共涵蓋五個面向我稍微念一下禁止強迫勞動禁止工作歧視禁止同工結社自由跟集體協商的權利還有職業安全衛生那麼根據勞動部提供的資料目前只完成了兩項 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2947.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2948.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易貿易 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2961.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2977.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我談的是盤點我都還沒提到這個實質修法的層次那鄧正宗政委他去年10月有特別提到環境議題的部分他們覺得很順利那我就想請問部長勞動議題的部分我很擔心會不會因為勞動部的這個部分讓我們在貿易談判上會卡關不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2982.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2983.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
有關勞動部主管有關勞動部主管有關勞動部主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2998.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3008.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
綜合社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3013.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3020.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
美國最在意的是遠洋漁工的權益尤其是外籍漁工我們好不容易在2019年被歐盟解除這個黃牌結果在2020年跟2022年卻被美國勞動部發布的這個同工及強迫勞動製品清單把臺灣列在其中那我們產出的漁貨被美國勞動部市委跟泰國、印尼、中國、加拿大等國報告清楚的結果就是透過壓榨漁工 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3042.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3070.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
強迫勞動所得來的血汗海鮮那報告裡清楚的提到說漁工面臨哪些的遭遇包括護照被沒收長時間無法跟外界聯繫22小時不間斷的連續工作工作生活環境惡劣招肢體暴力、苛扣工資等那這個清單是每年發布一次啦所以今年下半年因為會發布2024年的報告部長你覺得今年我們還會在那個清單上面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3070.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3094.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我跟您說明一下其實遠洋漁業的這個勞工的這個主要前者機關在漁業署那我們勞動部也有針對這個問題協助他們去落實這個有關於這個漁工人權的保障那其實我記得我們有我們就是希望不要再被放到這個名單裡面所以我們其實跟就是漁業署有有針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3099.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3115.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個他們所關心的東西我希望我們可以脫離這個名單他們有一些積極的作為其實美方也瞭解美方也瞭解我們其實也在做努力也有一些成果包括我們也跟我記得音樂署也有跟TIVA這些關心的還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3117.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3132.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
國務院美國國務院也對台灣遠洋漁工非常關心2023年美國國務院人口販運問題報告同樣提到我們外籍漁工都經過拖欠工資身體虐待扣留食物身分證這是強制分擔船舶的運營成本就是說他們認為船主是透過這些手段強迫他們勞動部長對於這些遠洋漁工的處境你會不會於心不忍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3142.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3161.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
當然我們不希望這種事情發生我跟委員報告這個是遠洋漁業的近海的通通是符合勞基法那遠洋漁業的但是他們都關心啦兩個部門欸國務院跟勞動部欸對我再跟委員說明說如果近海的漁工來講都沒有問題現在是遠洋漁業的部分那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3162.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3165.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
全職機關、農業部的預約署也很積極在處理包括薪資我都記得我們去年要幫協助他們我希望不要成為談判協議的卡關我們都有勞動部也站在我們的專業立場協助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3178.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3179.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
國務院2022年人權報告提到,台灣的重建將外國工人收取 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3202.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3218.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
高的招聘費、服務費而且這移工在母國也被當地的仲介在還債這是一種債務強迫勞動所以美國國務院有清楚的建議是不是希望台灣能夠取消消除向移工爭取任何費用因為目前每個月大概1500到1800三年大概6萬元但是對於這個因為經濟困難到台灣來工作的移工其實是情何以干所以我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3226.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3229.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個服務費在移工他不是強制的移工有需要服務他委託中心才需要付費但是這個服務你有很難去集合嗎他們人生地不熟大概也不敢不交 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3245.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3254.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
懲罰19案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3263.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3277.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
最後一個就是去年有個很紅的一段台劇《八尺門的辯護人》其中有一段故事就是描述一個遠遙漁工被台灣籍船長的虐待然後扣留護照引發殺就造成不可挽回的悲劇這是參考2010年發生的這個河村61號事件我是希望勞動部的官員能夠將心比心好好對待這些來台灣服務的漁工朋友因為大家都說台灣最美的風景是人 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3288.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3292.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育、作業流程及必要教育、作業流程及必要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3318.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3332.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
負責任職責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責任負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3340.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3342.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我請業務單位要趕快更新改進謝謝委員提醒 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3362.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3371.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
其實上禮拜我們有打去詢問所以你們已經更新了結果你們更新以後呢我又看了最新的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3372.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3399.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們有討論到說移工因為自己怕被趕出去阿強制解約阿所以逃跑嘛造成許多黑戶寶寶的產生但這個是最新版的喔這上禮拜更新完你會發現說懷孕移工的指引中文還是寫如果因為懷孕等因素無法升任工作僱主得主張終止契約英文寫得更可怕他說可以terminate your contract |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3400.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3405.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以這跟你們這個這個不能因為懷孕而去終止任何的勞動契約啦這個是禁止歧視啊我們現在這個抱歉謝謝委員他們優待會沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3420.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3435.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個不夠這個在更新的時候可以請各位今天回去稍微看一下馬上處理我也很好奇111年、112年、113年這些剛入境的移工他們拿到的手冊是不是這個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3436.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3463.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
因為這是2023年1月我們那個入境講習我們針對那個移工來台我們家庭看護部我們有入境講習那個給的資料都是會是正確的那這個是網站上的可能政府當時候在處理的時候不應該發生這種錯誤啦馬上要更正啦謝謝謝謝委員的關心幫我們注意到這個疏失真的很感謝你好 謝謝再來呢因為今天是討論職災職安嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3466.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3476.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我們今天有講到113年有一個口號是營造業墜落打擊元年但110年你們的口號是營造業減災加強年請問110年到113年你們這個口號的轉變有什麼特別的因素嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3485.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3511.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
報告委員這不是口號就是因為主要是一些策略我們針對營造業的減災我們每年都會有不同的一些策略因為營造業現在是所有的大概職災發生率最高的所以我們在這幾年比如我們在減災的時候會發現說到底哪些工作型態發生職災會最多那發現那個最弱最弱其實是一直高居這個營造 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3513.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3526.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
實在事件的很重要的一個原因所以我們特別把這個挑出來就是希望在防止墜落方面能夠加強相關的策略包括我們的加強檢查加強這個警察研法等等好,那我們看一下數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3534.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3554.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
一百一十年當時說營造業嘛營造業覺得是重大職災發生率最高的所以110年我們定義為職災加強年營造業喔但是你看111年雖然故宮的人數是下降的結果死亡的人數反而是上升的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3556.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3566.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
連製造業也是發生一樣的狀況所以是不是你們這個加強年的措施你們後來發現好像沒有什麼用所以113年又推出一個新的口號對 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3569.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3592.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我還是強調不是口號啦就是說這是一個目標我們要達成那當然像我們每年都會設定一個目標那當然像110年111年的這個這個職災人數是是增加但是我們110去年我看了業報有寫但112年其實只是回到110年的數據而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3596.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3624.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個部分當然委員我們會滾動來檢討因為現在也是因為整個呃國內齁這個申請建造的那種樓具把面積都增加就可以知道說那整個很缺的建案齁多啦有時候缺工趕工都會讓這些職災的風險提高所以我們也會去檢討原因為什麼沒有達到目標我們要精進我們相關的策略我們很希望113年114年可以看到他穩定的下降好 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3626.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3645.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這次呢去年我們通過職業職災保險法嘛所以我們推出了這些職災中心等等政策所以我上網把這個影片全部都看完其實拍得很好你們花了200萬拍了幾支影片跟勞工們宣傳職災中心有哪些服務這個影片是關於呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3646.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3668.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
一名麵包工人受傷。所以這個職災中心的各管師他協助他除了復建以外有一個很重要的亮點就是建立重建機制可以建立重建機制讓他順利的回到他原本的工作所以這個各管師就協助他申請了一個輔助設施他復建完之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3669.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3686.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有一個機器可以幫助他把東西搬上搬下讓他不會再救傷又重發啦好所以這個片裡面他都強調說有這個建立重建機制的服務也把這個當成你們宣傳的重點結果咧我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3688.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3703.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這是上禮拜查到的數據112年我們通過植栽中心也開始服務了以後輔助設施補助只有通過了一件但這是你們的重點項目喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3705.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3705.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
含報告事項20案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3720.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3741.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我們當然要了解一下因為這個輔助設施就是說你重建之後你回到職場那你可能需要一些補助的工具那這個部分你有需求我們都可以按照我們相關新的所以是因為宣傳不夠厲害是申請的過程很繁瑣或是因為補助的金額可能雇主還是沒有辦法接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3742.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3759.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
其實報告委員因為這個勞工發生職災他有時候是在他回到職場重建前他有一些必要的我們叫做器具補助啦那個就增加很多這個器具補助委員你可以看一下我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3763.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3784.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
對,1、2年喔,是608件那11、3年到現在而已喔第一季就205件所以其實這個是搭配的啦看你是需要的是那個器具補助還是這種補助設施這個影片裡面強調的是補助設施所以我想你會拍這個影片表示你注意到以前有很多人有這樣子的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3785.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3802.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為這個是法這個我們在報告通過以後新的有些過去他可能不知道他知道有這個器具補助不知道這個輔助設施所以我們是增加這個部分鼓勵說如果你有需求你就來申請不過這個部分我們再來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3804.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3804.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
責任責任責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3833.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3860.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
您在這個2018年的時候說一定要推動勞保年改但是最近呢又說三黨要坐下來談你也知道最近蔡總統跟柯主席已經吃了牛肉麵討論到這是一個一定要解決的事情但是呢你的解凍的報告裡面寫如果這些都是大家提出來很好的意見你們就把這四個意見列出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3861.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3877.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
但是最後的結論居然是週延規劃推動期程以確保勞工之保險給付權益這件事情我覺得上禮拜已經很多人問過啦但畢竟已經過了6年了部長你是不是應該要有一點方向跟想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3879.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3900.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
對,包圍這一題的困難點就是說要怎麼凝聚共識包括跟勞資雙方跟各界或者三黨大家坐下來來討論看看這個改革的這個幅度方向項目等等這個都是凝聚共識那其實如果能夠共識能夠達成後面就會很快所以我們這邊才會說其實這個部分還要再 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3903.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3930.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
相關的溝通跟收集相關的意見那有關於推動的期程我們會周延來規劃所以期程到現在因為 報告委現在真的期程很難去講如果大家有共識以後是很會很快如果還沒有的話當然這個期程我沒有辦法很明確的說我當時可以來上但是我想這件事情我們是非常重視的也一直請同仁在做一些研議包括所以520以前不會有期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3932.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3936.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3956.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3957.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
第10屆第11屆提出草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3976.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3976.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
臨月勤委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4010.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4014.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
防災防災管理委員會委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4026.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4027.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
含報告事項20案及含報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4054.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4059.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園公立幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4080.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4093.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
他已經是生病了他還要能呆在那裡他不能夠離開現場那甚至他特休假也要找人能夠代理他才能夠去特休假 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4095.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4123.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以這是我的學生傳給我的訊息他是一個任職在幼兒園的幼教人員因為身體不適可是還是沒有辦法而年休假的時候還要找到人才可以去休假這個是多麼不友善的職場環境如果老師這樣不被善待他怎麼可能照顧好小孩可是我們這幾年也我們的政府的政策要讓孩子能夠進入到托育現場裡面可是照顧他的人是這群老師他就沒有被好好的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4124.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4128.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4152.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4167.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那在這樣的狀況底下這麼惡劣的環境甚至今天要離職也離不了職為什麼因為僱主跟他講說如果要離職的話你7月還沒到你就要罰20萬這時有所聞每次學生都會來跟我求助這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4169.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4196.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
所以也想問的是就是說我們總共8223家的幼兒園跟托嬰中心可是你在你只查了501家大概6%所以想問一下怎麼定出這個6%依據是什麼要勞動檢查才知道這些在現場的人他到底有沒有被友善對待是靠勞檢所以想問一下你的依據是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4198.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4219.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
報告委員吼那個我們每年的那個專案講因為也是委於我們的勞檢人力啦吼因為其實各行各業高風險高違規的吼然後這個我們都吼要去查每年勞檢都是就是這樣嗎沒有啊我們會有針對一些吼可能就是曾經有不良記錄的吼或者這個有 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4221.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4247.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
申訴案件,我們會列入專案檢查對象。部長,如果大人的現場還OK,可是照顧孩子的現場,如果這麼不友善的話,我說難怪我們會時有所聞說老師對孩子不當對待而虐的狀況發生,那因為老師就沒有好好的被對待,所以我不知道這6%你的依據到底會是什麼?是不是可以去思考一下這個狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4249.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4274.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
委員這個部分我請那個治安署這邊來檢討就是說在專案檢查的比例上比例上我們是不是把這個幼兒園的部分再來提高我覺得這個是可以檢討的你的勞動檢查員的專業知識可能也要提升為什麼這麼講就是這事實上是收到的公文因為有幼兒園他去申訴之後然後就有人來勞檢那勞檢照理來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4281.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4295.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
針對這個勞動檢查案例來講工時工資休假休息跟放假這些都不是應該是雇主可以違反的項目可是很遺憾的是這還是幼教人非常困擾的因為中午這個午休時間那 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4298.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4316.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
當他去申訴的時候竟然是勞工出勤的紀錄是雇主所納入勞檢的項目可是今天要問的是可是重點是他們能夠要提出證據竟然是誰要提出證據是勞工要提出證據怎麼會是勞工要提出這個證據來給因為舉證在勞方這公文很顯示的是舉證在勞方不是在資方 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4330.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4355.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個基本上我們去勞檢這個證據的就是這些初請實際的初請請醒的記錄是要由僱主來提供可是這是你們勞動檢察員今天寫出來公文是這樣子的話那怎麼會是要要要要那個勞方來提供不是資方因為要舉證嘛所以我根本都沒有休息啊那可能是可能是僱主提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4357.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4384.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
紀錄跟勞工實際情形有落差所以為了要理清楚那勞檢員當然會要求說這樣落實4小時休息30分鐘現在是幼教人最大的訴求所以在這邊我們要很嚴肅的講幾乎所有的私營幼兒園在中午休息時間都必須陪著孩子睡覺跟勞動基準法的規定事實上是相反的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4385.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4390.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
防災管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、處理中華民國11案及必要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4409.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4434.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
施幼做輔導﹖這個不知道部長同意嗎?好,可以。各位報告,其實我們針對這個中午休息這個幼兒園的部分,我們在1月25號有開,今年1月25有開過會議,後續還會再開,就是有關於這個幼兒園的勞工的相關權益的問題,尤其牽涉到您剛剛講的休息時間這個部分,我們會再做一些討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4435.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4446.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
上幼兒園有人力比的問題所以勞動密度就我們去上勞檢的時候檢查的項目裡邊基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4447.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4471.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
去查的是勞動基準法就業服務法勞工保險條例那勞工職業災害保險跟保護法和勞工退休金條例這些法規都有去做檢查可是沒有去看這個勞動密度私生比如果不符合的話這也是他的勞動條件所以一個老師帶22個小孩跟法規規定他一個老師帶15個小孩現在目前就已經過度負擔甚至有 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4472.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4472.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
休息這一塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4497.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4525.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
然後是不是針對於這個密度勞動密度比較高的也能夠去納入檢查的項目報告委員因為有關於那個師生筆那種人力配置他的權責是在教育主管機關所以他是他的稽查項目但不是我的勞檢項目因為權責有各有劃分但是我們其實在檢查的時候發現有這種情形就應該要反映給教育主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4527.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4531.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個部分我們會來加強就是我們去講答如果發現這個私生筆像剛剛委員講的這個跟原來規範已經差太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4542.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4559.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這個我們會會呈給這個教育主管機關那就是請你們再跟教育部討論完之後會後把書面資料回覆我們辦公室然後也請勞動部不要看我是新科立委就糊弄我因為很多東西都我要的時間點大概都沒按照那時間點給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4562.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4562.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
二、處理中華民國11案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4583.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4607.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
同仁在聯繫上應該要主動的去說明說有什麼原因沒有辦法在這個時候提供我想委員也會能夠諒解但是絕對沒有對委員任何不敬我們一定是就麻煩因為我覺得我們要資料因為也有考慮到我們整個案子的那個期程所以麻煩以上謝謝這個我會折騰任務單位要注意謝謝林月琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4611.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4613.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
接下來請邱正鈞委員發言主席好 我們有請勞動部請許部長邱委員好部長好我請問一下就是高雄我們被媒體稱為公安之都 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4640.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4668.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
您覺得誰要負最大的責任?高雄市政府還是勞動部?我想有關於勞工的安全問題都是中央跟地方要一起來面對然後一起來處理一起來強化之前我記得你們的SOP的回答是中央是監督的責任地方是執行是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4671.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4674.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以你們一碰到高雄的時候你們中央就願意扛責任我覺得這很奇怪還是有顏色之分 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4697.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4699.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
一來一直以來都是這樣沒有顏色之分 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4723.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4731.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
家風旅業的爆炸,兩名移工死亡,三名移工及三名本國勞工不同程度的燒燙傷。你知道業者怎麼說嗎?陳其邁市長怎麼說?您知道嗎?你說陳市長怎麼說?對啊,業者怎麼說?業者喔?他的回答是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4747.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4775.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
廠方是說當時在進行灌模作業,疑似因為控制系統異常降溫水量不足,才會導致後續接觸高達700度的鋁水石發生爆炸我們陳市長也說水量控制器的故障引發大量的鋁液外洩然後洩漏到蓄水石而造成爆炸所以我覺得這兩個講法都不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4777.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4783.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們都知道高溫率碰到水的時候會爆炸這個國二的時候我們學校就有教了這個業者從76年設立到現在會不知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4790.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4814.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
因為這個實際發生的原因目前都還在調查當中那除了他們高雄市的勞檢處以外那我們南區治安中心也協助在個案來釐清對阿他爆炸原因還在檢檢還在調查嘛對不對那消防鑑定都還沒出來勞檢報告也還沒做高雄市勞工局就依照職業安全衛生實施規則第180條就已經先開罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4820.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4821.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
一般的作業流程是 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4837.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4858.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這樣災害發生我們要做細部調查分析,調查分析要確定它直災的基本原因跟職業原因跟監獄原因之後還做後續的裁罰跟處置那當然媒體會詢問案子的概況跟後續可能罰的狀況所以應該是地方政府針對目前這個個案先做初步的說明整個行政程序還是依照標準作業流程來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4861.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4874.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你們今年1月的時候村安檢查報告這個還有螺絲有沒有栓緊你們都會看那這會造成大爆炸的環境問題我們3年檢查14次的都沒有發現嗎?這是大家這一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4879.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4890.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這場的部分其實我們之前去做他們之前高雄市去做了檢查我所瞭解就是好像就是針對那個教育訓練不足還有堆高機的但是好像沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4893.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4919.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
就是針對這個因為這個如果像他們所講是那個水降溫的控制系統故障那這個就是應該是平常在這個因為你們每一年都有這個勞動的檢查方針嘛總共有19頁那每一年呢這個都有這個方向這個檢查的一個做法那你們的報告都是複製貼上 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4921.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4927.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
然後都沒有去追蹤,然後就隨便做嗎?沒有。碰到意外的時候再來檢討?沒有沒有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4928.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4956.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們其實每年所檢查的那個都會追蹤那也會去做複查然後做原因的分析之後看看後續如何來強化相關的檢查策略部長我說家豐鋁業爆炸跟小港海光電廠的這個搬運爐渣引水蒸氣爆炸這個氣爆還有民洋大火都是一個縮影那我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4958.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4983.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
要把這個勞檢做得確實一點不要讓業者存有僥倖的心態好嗎請部長這邊多加強那另外我還有一個問題就是說我們移工的問題是世界的一個趨勢那根據日本國際協力機構預測日本必須在2040年前將外國的移工數量從目前的205萬人增加到674萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4988.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5007.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那五年內要把技術勞工簽證移工增加一倍超過八十萬人那面對日本搶人大作戰目前我國的政策我們的政策移工留才久用為主那我們有沒有準備要檢討跟進這個部分其實日本跟進我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5009.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5034.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
他是把實習生轉成中階技術人力就是我們移工在前面那現在的問題是他們現在擴大嘛對不對那是不是我們到時候會不會招不到人或者是我們的人才流失我現在的重點在這裡不是誰學誰的問題啦因為我們我跟委員報告齁我現在那個中階技術人力就移工流財九二方我們其實成效非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5035.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5056.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我現在已經到二月底就補兩萬五千多人了所以部長你認為就是說不需要去管他?不是不需要管他我的意思是說你自己很有信心我們的人不會被拉走就對了第一個我要跟委員說明喔我們移工留在九龍我相當有信心齁我一定會打掉萬一真的到時候跑掉勒?不會阿第二個齁你確定不會啊?不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5058.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5064.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
對我們自己的政策很有信心,就是說我們有信心讓這些技術移工不會被拉走,人才不會流失。 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5079.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5107.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
應該我們有因為他願意轉就是他我今天提出這個問題我是希望我們勞動部也是要多關注這個問題不要讓事情發生的時候我們再來解決我們現在就是一個那個移民跟人口政策就是國發會跟其他五個部會一起我們定時的在檢討包括移工政策也是裡面的重要的項目之一所以這個我們都會隨時去關注好 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5108.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5117.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我記得之前有提到一個叫做新經濟移民法這個部分我們有沒有在討論要讓它復活新經濟移民法的權責機關是在國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5121.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5141.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
當時是好像勞動部反對嗎?是吧?沒有沒有我們沒有反對阿他那時候就是應該那我們對於對於這種議題我們有沒有準備一個一個做法或者是把這個新規移民經濟移民法把它完成他後來是用攬財專法他原來是新規移民法可是後來因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5143.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5147.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5173.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5178.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、邀請勞動部部長就:「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、處理中華民國11 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5195.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5216.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
六人好徐部長你好部長那個職安署啊跟前年成立的職災預防及重建中心的業務有沒有重疊之處不一樣不一樣對好那職災預防及重建中心打算在高雄設立職業健康及重建之家新聞報導說最快113年請問部長現在這個計畫的進度到哪裡何時會完成報告委員我們本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5223.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5231.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
原先是大概這個月要開始做一個裝修結果發現那個陳朱的房子是歷史建築 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5233.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5257.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以現在因為歷史建築他在裝修的程序上比較麻煩所以我們現在這個先暫停另外在另密新址也有先找到兩個點那請問一下這個設置我們重建之家最主要想要達成什麼樣的目的您可不可以簡單的講我們希望就是在這個我們的勞工重建的這個部分能夠給予更專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5259.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5274.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
工作重建重返職場工作重建希望給予更多資源協助所謂更多的資源協助目前已經有36家職能復健的專責醫院20家強化訓練機構還有22個縣市政府的職災個案管理專業服務人員還有管理服務資訊系統也有連結勞發署的職業訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5285.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5307.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
就業服務職業輔導評量的系統所以勞工如果有需要可以直接透過這個系統轉介跟追蹤現有的機制醫院訓練機構都有連之後的職業訓練就業輔導系統都有系統連結請問哪裡不足報告委員因為這個部分我們是希望有從因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5309.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5327.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
高雄是屬於勞工比較多的地方像建立這個重建之家他主要是針對在工作的重建希望是一個專責的直接專責的單位來直接來協助那剛剛所講的那個部長那你剛剛說到在高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5328.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5345.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
但是你看高雄看這個用這個重建之家不過我看勞動部的資料36家專責醫院中高雄的專責醫院就有5家也是各縣市之冠訓練機構也有一家所以資源並不稀缺喔並不缺所以設立這個重建之家主軸是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5346.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5348.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我請問你這個評估有沒有評估的依據或標準? |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5373.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5381.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
然後你預計要花多少錢?服務多少人數?報告委我們這個有當然有我們重建中心這邊有經過討論有專業的一些評估不過你剛問的那些數據我在是不是會後再提供給您 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5389.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5404.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好我只是覺得很好奇為何不善用現行指定的專責機構如果資源不足就邀請多一些醫院跟機構來評鑑多增加一些指定醫院機構讓這些醫院跟機構都可以就近服務不是更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5404.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5430.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那你特別在成立這個東西對我們來講它就是一個疊床架屋因為你講的都講不清楚說它到底跟現有的機制有什麼很不一樣的地方或是你可以補足哪些現有不足的地方所以現有機制如果都可以處理為什麼要浪費公帑去蓋一個文資館甚至是你也講不出來到底你要花多少錢要服務多少人沒有蓋啦就是說先成豬然後去把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5431.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5460.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
重建之家針對職災勞工在工作上重建所需要的一些協助我們在這個重建之家來提供我懂但是你講的都很像空話就是沒有很具體的回答說到底跟現有機制你可以補足哪些地方委員我們再做一些分析給你啦因為這些都蠻專業的我應該讓專業的人來提供提供相關的報告說明給我本席好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5462.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5488.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
部長勞動部所屬的勞研所就是會發出公安警訊而且還配置了專門的官網頁面把最新的因應時節變化之下最有可能的種種各類的公安風險來對外發布請問部長如果企業、工廠和這些事業單位如果有注意到我們勞動部所發布中央的公安警訊是否就能夠降低職災的發生機率 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5490.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5493.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
公安警訊除了放在所屬的官網上還有沒有其他的宣傳或宣傳管道呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5522.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5541.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
現任委員的指導我們大概一般就是在官網以外對不對那我們像跟治安署的配合或是說像縣政府的一些配合我們在宣導會的時候對不對都會提供這些相關的資訊給他們作為那個腳本這樣所以你們會請那個縣市政府幫忙宣傳對對會宣導會都會他們會來跟我們要資料OK |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5544.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5569.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好那這個所以也就是說我可以確定就是說除了事業單位之外地方政府的勞動局處或是勞檢單位會應照你們的這個公安的警訊然後他也會要求去幫忙宣傳對嗎也應該也要幫忙宣傳對不對對對好那甚至針對那有沒有甚至要針對中央所預警的產業去加強勞檢的頻率或是增加勞檢的內容呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5574.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5588.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
有關這個水蒸氣爆炸預防的部分是國內外都當作是個滿重要的爆炸預防的一個機制那這個這次這個個案看起來已經營業很多年那天早上的製程發生狀況產生直接是 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5589.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5590.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
預警的產業會加強勞動的頻率嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5609.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5633.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那本席看到我們的勞動及職業安全衛生所研究所在2022年的10月有發布一個預防熔融高熱物相關作業與水接觸引起水蒸氣爆炸的公安警訊那他還提醒了大家這樣子的熔融高熱物相關作業中的熔融鋁等他的作業環境常常附近會 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5634.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5660.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
常常會出現非預期的積水或是金屬碎片中含有水分如果操作不順或機械故障以致熔融高熱物與水接觸則水就會快速的加熱氣化體積會急速的膨脹約1700倍引起物理性的水蒸氣爆炸而且它威力很大會引發更大範圍的火災喔那麼我想要請問部長這則公安警訊有沒有給各個地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5664.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5690.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個公安警訊是因為因應那個國外有一些相類似的案例沒有你就回答我有沒有給嘛因為你剛剛是說有嘛對不對剛剛你前面的回答是說你們這些公安警訊是有各個地方政府縣市政府都有講嘛對不對所以地方政府剛剛照你們的講也有義務要宣導或者依據這份警訊去修改這個產業的勞檢項目請教部長高雄有沒有去修改勞檢項目公安警訊發布後高雄市的勞工局有沒有去宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5692.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5710.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
以及高雄市政府這兩年有沒有針對鋁這個產業去勞檢?有嗎?這個我們可能要進一步了解高雄市政府的部分好部長我跟你講一個地方就看到你們根本沒有盡到督導責任而且我們的高雄市政府的這個勞工局也是螺絲吊滿地 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5712.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5736.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你們勞動部勞研所並非隨便亂發公安警訊所以我想你也不會否認你下屬單位的用心研究但是你知道高雄市政府連最基本的轉資宣導責任都沒有落實嗎部長你看喔事實上高雄市政府為了應付中央為了讓中央知道高雄市有在做所謂的表面上的公安警訊分工宣導不過只是開了專門頁面之後實際上卻已經從2022年開始都停擺至今了 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5741.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5762.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
有沒有進到監督的職責?你們是沒有的。甚至在過去,高雄市政府也沒有如實的把勞動部職安所的公安檢訊帶到地方來發布。請問部長,高雄市政府因此是不是要在這次加封旅業二死六傷的悲劇中,確實就是有該宣導而未宣導的行政責任? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5763.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5782.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
報告委員這個部分我可能要進一步再瞭解因為他這個網頁雖然沒有這個顯示出來但是他實質上有沒有去做宣導這恐怕都還做講習但是他的公安警訊應該就是一個對全國公布的地方嘛對不對那如果連這個地方都沒有做到是不是也是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5783.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5799.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
問題呢?報告委員,所以這個要了解一下,因為平常這種公安的這些做掌握獎刑就代表你平常沒有經到督導之責囉因為高雄市放水難道你們勞動部也要佛系把關嗎?這麼重大的公安職災中央跟地方都沒有人負責嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5801.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5805.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
從星期五發生到現在,我想請問,那我想請問勞動部是不是應該要專案督導一下我們高雄市政府呢?你以前也當過高雄市政府的副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5823.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5843.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
請問高雄市你在任職期間高雄市政府的職業安全措施有這麼鬆散嗎?不會啦因為報告委員我們其實勞動部我們這個檢查機關跟地方政府之間都有監督檢查的基礎沒有我想要提醒你這個東西就是公開資訊大家隨時上網都可以看得到的東西但是我的意思是說你 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5844.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5863.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這樣重大的職災如果都沒有人要下台負責難道勞動部跟高雄市政府今天也是要今天公祭明天旺祭嗎?我想要提醒你的是這個因為明明就已經做了這麼好的公安警訊結果居然還發生這種悲劇我覺得我真的很替這二死六傷感到很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5866.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5883.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好最後一個部長我只是想要儘速的在幫我們的這個最近我們的央行升息喔勞動部有開辦多項的政策性貸款例如我們的微型創業鳳凰貸款還有我們就業保險失業者創業貸款和失業中高齡者及高齡者的創業貸款喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5885.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5912.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那這些政策性的貸款也都有採寄到中華郵政股份有限公司兩年期的這個定期儲金機動利率的計算這也代表著會受到這次升息的影響然後我們的行政院副院長在3月22號有召開跨部會議決議由政府全額補貼這個相關的升息的利息但是我發現剛剛這三項有關於勞工的政策性貸款都沒有納入裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5913.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5924.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以我在想你們是不是要跟行政院爭取因應升息衝擊的利息補貼或者是勞動部內部另外辦理因應升息衝擊的還款展言可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5926.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5953.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這個部分其實因為這個勞工紓困貸款主要是那時候針對疫情期間受影響的勞工因為那時候影響最大所以在所有的升息裡面已經升了五次了已經五次其實我們就補貼了四次就是針對那個因為疫情受影響特別他應該特別艱困那其他的其實這些貸款他們是影響很低這個都有充分評估過 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5954.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5960.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
因為這些補貼其實平常就有補貼他們所以對他們這個升息的影響是比較小的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5961.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5985.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好那我可以請本席再請您回去再重再一次討論一下因為他們都是比較弱勢的勞工是不是可以如果你說影響不大那是不是給納入這一次的補貼的方案裡面呢對這個像委員那個像那個剛剛您講的那個鳳鴻創業齁他一年喔一年才像這樣的升息辦法他增加869塊而已一年才增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5986.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6010.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
一年是那因為行政院副院長也是跨部會召開了會議說希望由政府全額補貼嘛如果你說在討論的時候都有先評估是不是我打岔一下是不是請部長會後再向委員說明溝通那如果是不是提供資料給我們兩位委員好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝部長好接下來請蘇清泉委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6021.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6023.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6038.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6053.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
來上次我有問剛剛很多委員提高雄這個鋁爆炸又是20、6傷凍結、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍、冰凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6057.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6075.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們屏東縣的職災你看4.196 4.196全國第一名那個高雄市我看也還不錯也是蠻高的阿你做過高雄市的副市長阿現在做勞動部長阿想要高雄屏東那樣常常出事你講一下好不好是到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6082.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6110.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
到底是你們自己要開發生什麼事你們是有在教育嗎有在輔導嗎你們勞動部有沒有聘請學者專家去幫他們尤其這些高危險的這些行業你們是怎麼處理還是只會去罵人只會去開餐有其實我們平常除了透過那個勞檢以外那也有針對這些高風險的這些行業有平常有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6112.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6127.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
經濟部有一個總體檢合作我們也都會去做一些宣導說明然後讓大家對這個職災的這個怎麼落實自主管理這個部分要怎麼來提升這個其實都有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6128.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6147.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
因為你們如果專家去看看到這些高危險的化工廠這些東西有可能會爆炸的你們一看看到問題就要趕快加強輔導該區隔的要區隔不要像像民洋公司辦公室、工廠、儲存廠全部和在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6149.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6152.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6170.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6180.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
連鑿機的工程複雜高鐵也會出問題所以這個是很危險的所以我這裡要要求的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6182.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6194.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這些化學工廠、這些理業工廠這些會爆炸的、容易火災的你們要總體檢啊你們絕對有這個能力嘛總體檢的時候要給他輔導啊該開單的開單但是要輔導讓他不要發生事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6200.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6203.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6223.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6237.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
一年賺5.9億那你去開單開個20萬開個30萬然後呢你們去給他查了18次然後有9次給他開單總共加一加二給他算一算剛才給他花50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6239.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6241.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6254.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6255.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以已經到少過一次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6274.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6301.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那這樣像這些像屏東也有履業履定的我都去參觀過高雄這個這個是一發生就是爆炸高溫火災然後就死人我們不希望這種事情又再發生兩個禮拜前幫你質詢現在又發生高雄這個聽起來是很難聽的那這個是高壓氣體的工作場所還是窩裡窩爐的工作場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6305.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6319.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
公務員報告這個場沒有鍋爐但是有兩個高壓氣體設備都是經過定價合格的這個案子目前我們初判因為還要現場實際的做嚴格分析調查才可以知道是造災原因那初判是一個他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6319.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6333.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
他處理系統裡面的降溫的噴水措施造成了故障所以他變成鋁翼變得沒有固定化就到到冷水水池所以這個細節部分還是現場在做經驗了解所以不是鍋爐本體或是壓力本體的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6334.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6354.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們醫療院所對於這個尋根追根之旅我們做得很落實那是因為衛生衛生部他會找學者專家來輔導你們那你有問題丟出來他們會幫你一起解決那我看勞動部有沒有這個機制還有沒有這個能力還是不想做 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6356.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6377.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個工廠當然是非常多啦但是齁你們一定要把這些高危險性的一而再再而三的去去掃描去檢查我覺得花錢只是一個末端的事情前面預防可能比較重要那工廠真的都分不清交也交不會那就叫他停工好了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6378.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6399.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
不然那是很可怕的 職災那麼多 誰受得了好不好 部長那剛剛我們廖委員問 這個職責是勞動部的職責還是地方政府的職責啊你做個工是有一定 像工這間這樣你是喪 喪在扶植 沒人扶植啊送來撒棄 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6404.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6425.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
關於職災的事情平常的執行當然在地方政府我們勞動部不僅監督也會協助就是說職災的預防或者職災的處理都是中央地方一起來合作不管哪個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6425.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6426.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
第二個問題我要講外送員因為COVID-19的時候外送非常非常的興旺現在已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6448.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6470.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
維修 但是很多年輕人還是在做這個那這個錢就從一個單從68塊變成40塊然後現在降到20幾塊那收入又變少然後工作就拉長那就產生事故屏東今天各位就二十九間發生事故什麼事?就手啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6473.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6479.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
再三十幾人受傷,像這種你們現在這些外送員你們有沒有幫他輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6481.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6506.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們缺工、缺人才、缺那麼多我是覺得做這種外送員實在是那主要藝工也很辛苦的你有那個幫人輔導、執訓讓他們去更好工作嘛其實報告委我們都希望這個非典的工作我們都希望他還是回到正常的職場來啦所以他有任何執訓的要求專業需要提升我們都有機制有計畫可以幫忙他都沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6507.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6520.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第11屆議員委員會主管預算凍結案21案及綜合法規則第 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6532.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6534.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6550.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6578.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那個外送員送到那個漁船給外籍漁工外籍漁工你要等你送東西給我吃那一幕我一輩子都不會忘記很荒唐的事情台灣孩子做Uber送東西給外籍漁工你怎麼等他站起來好像角色是混淆的應該是他們送給我們吃才對這個真的是那一幕你去東港看看你東港看真的有 每天都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6579.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6602.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以,部長,你當天人要更認真,拜託最後一個我問你,這個外籍移工大家都在罵罵我們對外籍移工很苛刻啦怎麼樣啦,我要上個禮拜我才處理我們這個摩里西斯被打的船長爸爸媽媽都來我們叫漁業署、外交部、法務部開一個會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6605.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6620.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們一條漁船出去只有船長跟大副是台灣人其他船就到菲律賓到印尼去把漁工上來或者是我們的遠洋漁工然後出去整隻船的25個、25個都外籍漁工我們的台灣人只有兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6627.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6652.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
他們天天處於危險的情況呢你知道那個船長都在船長室裏面吼 捨射耶我是覺得說我們在苛刻外籍移工這個現在的情況已經改善很多所以倒是我們的船長要跟移工要保持良好的兄弟關係不然真的好像怕死了又不知道耶所以我要拿這個演員 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6657.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6677.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
這傳屬還有那個船長替他們講講話不能一面倒就常常在罵人家的 我覺得沒道理所以部長這點你要去我們勞資和諧很重要啦 僱主跟這個移工權我想兩方都要兼顧啦有時候也要跟他們講一些公道話 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6677.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6693.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以我看他們被打打成這個樣子我覺得我們法務部也使不上力我們外交部也使不上力阿牟利西斯也不幫教所以我們只好找對岸去幫忙這樣好笑不好笑所以要加強好不好 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6697.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6708.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
謝謝蘇清泉委員接下來我做以下宣告等一下在盧憲一委員質詢結束休息10分鐘現在請王育明委員發言謝謝主席我們是請許部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6722.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6750.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
王委員好部長好部長3月23號湖內嘉峰旅業工廠爆炸二死六傷這個是非常重大的一個公安事件那這麼重大的一個公安事件我看到媒體他特別提到說事實上去年12月這一家業者已經被開罰了5次請問治安署有掌握這樣的狀況嗎高雄勞工局有通報嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6751.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6765.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
他那個是廢棄物清理法的他違反的是廢棄物跟公安完全沒有關係但是他說他過去也被裁罰了高達十幾次都跟公安都沒有關係跟公安有關係好像我記得好像七次啦就是通知他改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6766.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6792.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
有改善嗎?跟這次發生的原因是不一樣的嗎?那你們後來因為一家工廠這麼多次發生情況雖然是不同的情況但是對於勞動部來講對於地方的勞工局來講有把它列為是重點你們去稽查它的相關安全設施的一個對象嗎?有被列冊嗎?有特別被列管嗎?有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6792.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6812.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
報告委員因為他之前的違反職安的都是跟工廠設備安全沒有關係的我記得好像是教育訓練的部分跟那個所以沒有列車對不對沒有把它列為高風險但是從媒體報導他高達700度的高溫但這一次跟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6813.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6821.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
他這個是製程有一個控制系統發生問題現在瞭解是這樣但後續真正的原因要等那個這個調查報告出來但我們也認為說這個像旅住這種產業其實蠻高風險的產業它一旦發生爆炸其實影響很大所以過去你們沒有把它列為是高風險那你們現在要把這個相關的工廠列為是高風險嗎因為它既是高溫 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6839.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6867.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
有一個不慎就爆炸而且死傷這個是這麼這麼大的一個範圍我們我們報告我們會之後我們會針對這個女女駐造業吼相關的這個工廠為實施專案的勞檢那你們現在盤查臺灣類似這樣的一個工廠女駐造業有多少家分布在哪裡是不是多數又是在高雄報告委員總數是473吶吼那分布我看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6869.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6881.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243領助造業243 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6891.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6894.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那本席要求竟然有超過200多家是同樣的那他的製程過程當中可能有高溫的情況那這200多家我要要求勞動部的就是這次竟然爆發這麼重大的一個公安你們應該把這一次的檢討把這些所有發生的原因要回饋給這200多家 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6917.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6922.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
懲罰19案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及懲罰20案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6934.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6936.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6951.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6961.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
本席要求的比較著重是你要把每一次重大的公安意外它發生的原因再回饋給這些相關的產業讓它做下一次的預防我覺得這個比開罰事後的開罰其實是更重要的因為你這樣子才能確保他們在製程過程當中大家提高那個風險意識或是相關的教育訓練做到位才不會有下一個同樣的案例再發生好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6977.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6994.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
本席要求你們回去研議之後把你們預備的做法要一份報告給本席好不好我覺得這個非常重要另外一個我要提醒的就是高雄的重大公安事件現在看起來他在製造業的公安其實統計起來他在六都當中其實是最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6995.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7023.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那可能它過去它是一個工業的城市我們發現最近這好幾起無論是化學廠或者是有大理石工廠或是其他的工廠這種爆炸然後崩落倒塌相關的其實是蠻高的那這個部分這個部長你過去也出身高雄市你自己是不是有一些觀察那你認為這個應該要怎麼樣去改善過去這樣的一個工業都市它這麼多的工廠然後它發生的比例是相對高的那要怎麼樣去改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7024.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7047.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
法委員那個高雄當然這幾年之前我是覺得它的公關發生率滿高這兩年有降下來當然統計起來還是相對高像這樣裡面發生這件事情我們還是覺得非常遺憾我是覺得這個很重要的就是說在相關的製造業也好營造業也好那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7047.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7062.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
高風險的部分我是覺得平常可能要請地方政府這邊更針對一些相關的如何落實自主管理預防災案發生應該要在 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7063.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7064.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
全國全國看起來我們重大職災死亡的人數事實上是居高不下 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7087.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7109.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
每一年你看這個數字幾乎都是超過300人而這當中營建業大概就是佔了一半以上因為他是從高空墜落所以他的死亡人數也都非常的高所以我要問一下部長我們有治安署我們也一直在宣導但是我們的這個重大職災的死亡人數其實你如果就整個統計來看並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7111.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7114.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7139.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7155.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
對啦,平均有增加營造業還是我是認為這個還非常不滿意啦那我根本報告因為可能也跟這幾年整個那個申請電照齁我們總那個總建平齁你說是因為營造業增加的關係增加然後而且我發現都是高樓層齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7157.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7158.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
責任責任責任責任責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7186.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7202.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你們要怎麼落實來署長你要補充你說跟大家報告清楚你這個到底要怎麼做讓他發揮真正的效果根本報告日本的公安他有一些起伏但日本營造相對比台灣好這是我們承認的所以說安全看的就是在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7203.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7205.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7224.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7228.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7249.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7269.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
公安的教育訓練 是啊那是現場可能沒有落實啊那你要怎麼樣去確認現場是有落實因為每個公司都有營造的監照人員我們也都要求監照人員一定要每天他要去尋嘛要針對他在現場施作的這些勞工、員工要 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7269.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7289.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
安全防護具有沒有都具備有沒有扣好這個一定要本期另外一個要求齁除了剛剛的要求之外你們針對你們今年要全面啟動的針對營造業的這個安全看得見要怎麼去落實怎麼有效的降低這樣的一個死亡率你們應該要一個比較清楚的專案的內容跟報告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7289.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7309.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
也提供給本席跟本委員會最後我要問一下消防員權益的問題消防員到底要不要適用這個勞安的條例他們的職安需不需要保障目前勞動部的態度是怎麼樣公會他們是希望可以納入這個勞安條例但是勞動部呢你們要去保障消防員的這個職業安全嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7311.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7325.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
那個報告委員其實這個部分我們就是在專他們消防院的專章裡面你們現在請相是回到專章沒有回到這個勞動部這邊的治安法這個就是院那邊開會齁那你們沒有跟工會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7327.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7328.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
本席要求至少一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7344.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7364.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這個消防員的保障不應該低於勞工應該是等期的所以你們應該要在行政院裡面好好去反應針對消防員怎麼樣進一步去保障他們的職業安全避免過勞的事情我覺得勞動部你們要提出最專業的意見好不好給消防弟兄就是打氣然後做為他們的後盾好不好好謝謝好謝謝王玉明委員的發言那下一位我們請黃秀芳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7375.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7376.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7383.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7388.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
防災管理制度、作業流程及必要管理制度、作業流程及必要管理制度、作業流程及必要管理制度、作業流程及必要管理制度、作業流程及 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7412.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7432.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
公安要怎麼去落實我一直覺得說你們訂了很多的法規或者是說訂了很多指引那到底到現場誰要去落實或者是說你們監督誰要去監督這樣的一個事情去把整個安全去把它落實那另外就是說有關這個粉塵爆炸的這個問題因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7435.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7460.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
相對如果這個工廠裡面有一定的這個一定規模的員工那如果是他是製作這個有關可能會有一些粉塵的這個應該會有職業安全人員嗎對不對對好那那有這樣的一個職業安全的人員那為什麼還是會有這麼多的譬如說民養民養他應該本身也有這樣子一個職安人員在裡面嗎那那像這樣的話到底他是沒有落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7462.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7476.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
或是說很多事情只是書面作業然後敷衍了事物我不知道這個勞動部針對這部分未來你們在這個職安未來的10年你們要怎麼讓這個職安的這個公安事件下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7477.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7505.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
報告委員我是覺得很重要的是一個安全文化的建立安全文化建立這很重要因為不然的話這些事件一定是層出不詳雖然我們其實我們根本幫我們這10年來我們的這個減災是有發生效果因為那個質災的千人率是有下降從3點多下到現在2點多但是呢這個因為事件還是每年都有發生那所以大家對於這個質安 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7507.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7509.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7536.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7538.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7565.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7566.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
三、四樓掉下來人就掛掉了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7586.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7587.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7606.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7634.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
最新天氣熱再裝冷氣就從上面可能就那個以為那個那個呃那個屋頂是安全的結果是破就是踩下去就破了然後就掉下來那像這樣子的話我不知道說如果說針對有一定規模的工廠那當然一定會有一些職安人員嗎那像這樣的一個小型的這個電器行我講的那種小型的那你們怎麼樣去落實作業者啦吼都無一定雇主的這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7635.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7649.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那我們就是應該要對於這些個人的這些施作者可能要加強他的這些安全的防御知識所以你們會請工會這邊會讓他們有一些這個職安的一些講習啊至少通路沒有展開 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7657.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7676.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
委員對不起我還是跟周報告冷氣業的部份其實這3、5年其實各地方講究都非常重視因為他最後不會當到是小型的安裝公司現場安裝一個人兩個人所以我們採取策略是冷氣通路比如說大的冷氣販賣商他發包給下面的承擔去做現場安裝的時候他說現場的安全呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7678.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7683.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7705.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7708.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7735.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7748.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及中華民國總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7764.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7766.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
含報告事項20案及20案及20案及20案及20案及20案及20案及20案及20 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7788.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7803.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
二、請勞動部這邊是針對既然我們的這個整個經濟成長那我相信很多企業他可能把這個成長的果實分分給他的股東那是不是也要請勞動部也要把這個成長的果實 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7804.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7829.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
分給所有的員工讓他們一起共享經濟成長的果實我想請教部長我們看到臺灣的基本工資時薪累積條幅有59%以上當然很多人會覺得說小英總統上來之後每一年幾乎都有調基本薪資還是覺得追不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7831.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7854.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
其他通膨。我想請教部長,像這樣的一個狀況,我們希望臺灣的經濟成長的果實是跟所有的員工一起共享的,那你們怎麼樣讓員工的薪資實質上也可以得到一個加薪?其實我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7855.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7882.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
就是一再的跟這些企業主事業單位在呼籲就經濟果實要跟勞工來共享因為企業能夠賺錢能夠永續其實都是勞工的努力是不可以忽視的那當然我們這幾年其實透過基本工資的調升來也基本工資其實照顧最邊際基層落實的勞工但是也由政府的一個調整基本工資能夠讓企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7884.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7887.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7910.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7911.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7926.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7927.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7942.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7955.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
懷疑中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7957.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7961.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
有關公安或是現在我們也希望說國家的經濟成長也能夠讓所有的勞工可以分享到這個經濟成長的果實而不是讓勞工覺得說是無感 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7983.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7992.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
另外最後我想請教部長因為我最近聽到很多的餐飲業很多都收起來因為他們請不到廚師我不知道說勞動部應該也會聽到這樣的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8003.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8003.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
新規模範的勞動部委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8028.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8057.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
教育或者是讓一些想有心想要從事這個餐飲業的人也可以進入到這樣的一個職場那我不知道說部長你有沒有聽到這樣的一個聲音報告委員其實像這些從事餐飲尤其廚師他都他都要有證照對其實我們勞動部針對這個部分我們都有有這個訓練有職業訓練各職業公務也都有開班是我們都其實都有委辦所以其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8058.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8077.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
第一個從人才端這裡如果這些有人願意他從事這個餐飲的廚師的工作其實他可以進到訓練班來然後取得證照他就可以去工作但是現在因為可能現在因為餐飲真的缺工是很嚴重非常嚴重非常嚴重所以可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8078.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8102.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
有些慈禧效應若比較大的參與集團他可能薪資好、福利好、勞動環境各方面那怎麼樣去解決?現在是碰到這個問題要怎麼解決?我們醫後改善缺工有針對把這些納進來像若有個案其實委員也可以給我們我會請我們的各地的分署去了解去做一些協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8103.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8119.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們當然就是說希望這個勞工想要做的人都有一個好的工作嘛那有很多是需要勞動部這邊來協助的那我們希望讓勞工有一個好的這個工作環境也是勞動部這邊要去營造的好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8135.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8154.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
接下來請盧憲一委員發言主席請許部長跟周署長請許部長跟周署長部長好盧委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8155.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8157.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8185.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8210.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
兩行兩列兩列這邊吼可以看到110年是0.062不過111年的時候是0.109應該是有將近兩倍那跟這個前109的話是增加增加了三倍所以他的雖然是整體的那個災害是減少了不過死亡數字是增加的那你們有沒有做這方面的一個關心或者是說研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8213.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8233.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這個問我請署長來說明一下謝謝謝謝委員確實去年跟前年我們原住民的職災死亡在工作上的職災死亡是增加的這個我們知道所以我們其實這兩年特別針對那個部落的一些公安的宣導跟那個特別是透過他們的豐年祭什麼相關活動做很多的一些宣導報告展開 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8234.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8236.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
原住民死亡人數320人、歐元原住民死亡人數22人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8258.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8273.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
臺灣大部分都會從事的工作確實也是風險相對比較高所以我們認為說是如何在這種相對風險高的部分告訴我們原住民如何自保當然也是要求這些事業單位在做這樣子的防災的時候要特別注意整個安全的展開比如說營造業部分確實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8274.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8297.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有關勞動部的官員罪名的網頁當然他更新是更新到今天應該是很認真在更新不過看了瀏覽的人數看我們的勞工的人數是20萬可是真正去關心過這個網頁的我們的勞工人才3000人而已所以希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8298.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8301.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8317.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8338.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所謂的職業失能的那個量化的時候應該要看得到他是暫時的還是永久的因為你這樣我看不我看不出來啊那個14齁14是林兆業然後總計是32人32人的話我不知道他到底是多嚴重好不好看不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8340.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8363.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
包括這個職業私人勞保局在做最後的那個那個職業私人那個給付的時候會有不同的等級來判斷他是什麼樣的等級這個後台有比較細緻的資料但是因為這個是統計分析的一個說明那我希望說在職業死亡的這個比如說每一個一個比如說22人好了那是不是每一個人的死亡的那個case study應該要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8363.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8365.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8379.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8381.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8396.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8396.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
實際調查報告分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8418.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8436.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所有的安全衛生管理應該都是僱主負責僱主的責任,那我們政府是監督端所以我們勞動監督檢查應該是重點做風險比較高的部分優先做監督檢查那比較屬於中低風險我們就期待僱主能夠有個管理系統做每天的正常的循環我意思是說這個量夠不夠這個檢察員的量夠不夠數量 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8439.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8460.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
只有一千多個要跟我們報告我們的臺灣的檢察員的評那個配比跟勞工人的配比已經在國際應該算是正常的沒有太多配聽你可以呈現這樣的數據讓大家知道說確實有做到這樣子是是可以嗎不然會覺得說你像偏低了然後我們這個工作安全都沒有人去把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8461.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8463.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8476.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8476.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
安全建議﹗安全建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8503.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8532.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
各位報告其實比較高風險的部分我們所謂教育訓練應該會要求每個勞工有一個教育訓練比如營造業我們3加3小時的教育訓練他才可以資格去現場做工作那這部分我們希望現場的監督管理入場管制就要了解他有沒有做教育訓練才能進場來作業關於那個墜落職災這個部分常常就是我們都知道是大包轉小包這樣給底下的下游廠商的採訪對大包的就是業主 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8533.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8556.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
不痛不癢,那能不能透過樂立停工來真正嚇阻這樣的一個行為?部長覺得呢?各位有報告,其實我們的檢查如果它發生有立即危險之餘,我們不但處罰也會做停工。停工它提出復工的申請,那我們先來講去現場看復工,它的達到我們的安全標準才可以讓它復工。確實營造業部分這個算是我們的檢查的重點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8557.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8562.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案21案及凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8576.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8592.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這個委員就是民眾會擔心我們有那個植栽黑樹那我們除了第一時間消防隊員跟我們的聯繫的平台有報告之外我們現在透過醫院端如果發現疑似是職業病或職業災害的部分也會透過我們這個系統來做回報那特別跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8593.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8604.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我們也不希望像這樣的事情會被隱瞞掉我們鼓勵當事人或當事朋友在我們職災通報裡面也給我們一些訊息所以我們在經財暴通過之後我們有職災通報的一個厚道網絡鼓勵有數據嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8609.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8623.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
有數據嗎?有數據再給我囉接下來就是說我們的那個勞檢的部分就是我們營造業跟製造業占了相當大的比例可是我們勞檢可能數目可能不夠那這方面你要怎麼做一個經濟改善? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8626.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8629.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
有關事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育、作業流程及必要檢查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8643.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8665.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
通過勞工的吹哨子或是外面來跟我們申訴檢舉我們來做監督檢查所以我覺得覆蓋率的問題其實世界各國不太談這一塊覆蓋率但是我們主要如何第一線有效保護勞工的安全衛生從我們的監督檢查跟事業單位自主管理部分我覺得應該是可以再互相來做做積極的改善的因為時間的關係我是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8666.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8687.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
緣住民主委員會有建立一個通報聯繫機制,你們可以跟他們一個通報聯繫機制,如果有發生質在的勞工告訴他們,他們可以透過緣住民的關懷,或者是說我們一個叫家庭服務中心來一起來協助他們獲得社會的資源。在最後一個就是說關於工作上歧視的問題,挑到最後一個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8688.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8702.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
就是在OECD國家他有做一些研究然後就是對普遍的民眾做了一個對你如果你在工作上受到歧視的一個認知那我們台灣有沒有做這方面的研究像現在作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8704.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8704.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
謝謝盧憲宜委員那我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9339.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9343.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
好現在繼續開會接下來請圖全級委員發言好謝謝請我們許部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9362.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9385.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
吳委員好許部長請問一下像我們新冠疫情之前我們公路的客運的營運那個載客的人數應該都超過千萬那現在雖然疫情稍微比較趨緩理論上算是已經結束了那我印象現在可是現在的搭乘量大概也只不過到七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9386.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9387.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9404.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9429.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
各院駕駛員的人數都是非常短缺而且造成很多營運上的問題像我們有這個9089桃園到北市古亭還有9103大溪到新北頂浦5203A盧竹到南崁到北市9005桃園到北市內科都因為這個人力的不足跟營運的不善造成很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9430.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9440.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
入境路線停止甚至要加班加開的路線也沒有辦法去做那請問一下你知不知道現在我們公路客運駕駛員缺額大概有多少根據我們聯合報去做這個數據的顯示我們交通部在111年的時候有招募大概4800人可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9457.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9459.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113年度中華民國113 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9483.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9500.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
領5個月的全薪表示現在這個司機荒可以說是非常非常的嚴重那我想請問一下我們針對這個公路客運其實看起來也算是缺工的行業是不是有機會引進這個外籍移工的空間報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9502.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9522.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這個司機是屬於專機人員他其實不是屬於低階的藍領他應該是屬於白領那這個全程機關在交通部那他因為也要考證照那所以就是說這個應該是交通部去考量如果他要引進這個白領的司機的專機人員我們也是尊重他只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9523.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9542.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
就是申請工作證因為這個我們也資格啦也根據他們的一些指標我們做過一些統計我知道我們勞發署有跨國勞動力政策協商諮詢小組每年針對一些指標去做一些統計我們大概看一下針對這個產業關聯我們這個公路客運其實它也是屬於公共運輸也屬於的公共 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9550.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9579.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
公共財不是非企業盈利的部分那自動化的部分他自動駕駛的部分其實現在也還沒有到成熟的階段那薪資水準的部分就像剛剛部長有講他這個白領移工他的下限是47,971元其實我們客運的平均月的薪資可以到達59,000多所以基本上他也算是高薪而且如果以 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9579.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9598.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
拼請這個外籍移工來講也不算是虧待他們這個薪水不能比他白領的移工最低下限還高而且重點他缺工的情形非常的嚴重你看我們高興在台灣真的都請不到人在台北市、桃園市甚至我相信各縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9600.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9628.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
人力缺口真的非常嚴重然後他3K產業他也符合他也是高工時勞累也是長年招募不足所以今天在這邊提出就希望我們勞動部是不是可以針對這一部分來解決我們這個司機荒謬這個需求的部分我們了解他現在真的是缺司機但是這個整個權責是在交通部我們尊重因為他是屬於白領 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9629.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9652.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
他不是屬於蘭嶺的移工所以他只要符合他的資格那也可以相關證照可以考過我們其實我們只是負責發工作證而已所以這個部分我們尊重交通部的我們也會先提出因為我們今天提出就希望能夠勞動部能夠先重視這一部分因為這個指標是勞動部的指標我們經過這些指標這是移工的引進 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9657.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9674.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我可能要先說明這是移工的引進跟那個白領專技人員的其實不一樣的我們其實白領是不需要事務的沒關係因為我希望先讓勞動部先重視這部分問題當然交通部的問題我們也會去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9675.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9703.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
因為現在司機荒人才招募這個問題造成很多地方很多的家長還有很多的上班族像我們現在很多路線搭乘的人很多可是要加班沒有辦法加班然後很多路線莫名的停駛那很多的縣市政府說他真的沒有司機所以沒有辦法去開所以也希望勞動部能夠協助解決這部分問題交通部的部分我們也會去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9704.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9707.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9730.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9730.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
勞動部主管預算凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9748.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9749.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9779.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9803.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
針對這個合併的比例還有他這個使用上他說像有些染疹的部分還有成衣廠他說有些這外籍移工使用的調配應該要能夠讓他們能夠去活用解決現在在台灣真的招募不到人來做的問題是 報告委員其實我剛剛講過就是說你真的比例真的不足你那個目的世界主管機關他可以提案過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9804.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9826.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們政策諮詢小組會開會來討論看是不是合理第二個就是說其實我現在還沒有調整之前你可以用那個附加就extra你只要加那個救安費就可以提高這個比例另外還有就是承接國內轉出的移工5%裡面就是按照這個原來救安基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9828.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9832.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
他就可以來禁用另外轉成中階他轉成中階他還可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9835.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9857.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
轉一個補一個好那我也希望因為我知道我們勞發署針對這個跨國勞動力這個部分我希望這個諮詢小組這一部分針對這個比例的部分真的來深切的檢討因為我們接到太多太多的反應他說這個已經20幾年了真的很不合乎時宜請相關的業者他可以好那我請他們業者再提出具體的澄清還有針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9862.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9879.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們有提出這個勞工保險財務改善的專案報告我先看了一下我發現其實這個專案報告真的太流於形式然後我們勞動保險業務我們看了一下從109年到113年你看這個勞動保險業務這個預算年年增加從1400多億到113年到2790 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9893.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9907.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
2790幾億這五年足足增加了兩倍那所以我看這個大部分都是用來補這個勞保基金然後我也看這個專案報告感覺真的是流於形勢沒有一些具體的改善方式部長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9908.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9934.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
報告委員這個其實包括那個健保的那個勞工的部分齁也是因為人數增加啊也是他們也是投保薪資也是在我們這邊我知道因為那另外還有就是撥補啦因為這勞保這個年金改革啊說真的因為我們也看了一下2020年喔部長也一直有心要去做八月份的時候你也說一定要去做不惜持官 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9935.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9964.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
然後9月份說年底在2020年底你說要提出改善方案其實一直到今年然後2024年我們都看不到具體改善方案那後來有問部長那部長的意思是說這個因為很複雜要三檔坐下來談所以我說這當初這個這個預算會凍結就是看不到一些具體的改善方案那現在今天又說要凍結我們也還是看不到具體的改善方案而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9964.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9991.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你又說要等三黨坐下來慢慢談那你都還沒談好你現在要來解凍我不知道要做什麼那我倒認為這個是不是等到真的提出一個完善的改善方案的時候我們再來解凍來解決這個問題不然你看從2020年這個經費業務經費也是一直撥啊撥到現在也沒有一個完整的改善方案那現在又說要來解凍這個預算我不知道解凍以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9992.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10011.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
難道今年解凍就可以做出改善方案嗎?可是我的意思說前面那麼多年你也說要做我們前面看預算也都編給你們啊然後你說要做也沒做然後你今年還說沒有辦法做那你還來解凍幹嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10014.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10027.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
三黨坐下來談談到可以做的時候再來解凍那前面說可以做的時候經費照編也做不出一個改善方案然後今年你說要三黨坐下來談才有辦法做那我不知道解凍這筆錢要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10030.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10055.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以我的意思是說前面錢給你用你也做不出改善方案然後今天又說要來解凍所以我覺得好啦那我說如果今年給那你有辦法改善方案嗎如果真的沒辦法給你說這明年這筆經費我們怎麼讓你過得了怎麼編得下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10057.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10083.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
老保年改這件事情我們一定是會很審慎也一定會積極的處理部長你再好好看一下因為我很擔心從109年到113年增加了兩倍這個缺口越來越大你又沒有改善方案業務費100萬不是問題但是100萬給了也沒有具體的方案出來我不知道這個業務費一直給下去我相信當初會凍結就是因為你們沒有具體的方案謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10087.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10091.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
謝謝圖全級委員接下來請王振旭委員發言好謝謝主席有請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10113.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10118.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
全國勞動力約有1,192萬人,就業人數有1,145萬。這是廣大的族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10131.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10155.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這是要勞動部要幫忙做服務照顧的對象那在勞動部組織的幾項重大業務裡面其實我想最重要的目標就是要落實這個勞動的安全那同時也要透過很多有效的政策來減輕這個勞工的負擔那請問部長您同意這個業務的重要性還有怎麼推廣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10157.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10177.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那我們也知道最近有兩個政策的確會對勞工的生活造成了一些影響包括央行的升息、電價的調漲相信勞動部應該會有更多相關的應用措施來減少這個勞工的影響跟衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10178.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10199.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
包括一般的貸款還有房貸還有這個營運電價上漲帶來的這些生活上的一些影響那請問部長是不是有啟動相關的作為來幫助勞工朋友那個就是央行升息辦碼那部分我們已經針對疫情期間那個勞工紓困貸款的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10200.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10215.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們全額補貼這半碼的升息的負擔我們勞動部全額補貼另外就是電費調整當然4月1號要上路上路之後對於勞工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10217.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10240.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
實質薪資會否受影響?這個部分也跟委員報告我們現在今年上路的最低工資法那個CPI就是消費者物價指數年增率它是法定的因參財指標那這個CPI它本身就包含這些民生消費的相關的指數像柴米油鹽、水電都在裡面所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10241.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10258.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
未來我們的最低工資審議通常在第三季的時候會來開會那到時候審議委員也會參著這些整個CBI他的年度漲幅還有說民生物價生產物價的變動狀況這些相關的我們有十項的參賽指標會來做整體通盤的考量那我想我們的這幾年來都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10268.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10293.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
以照顧我們最基層、最邊際勞工的生活為我們基本公司調整的主要目標。好,謝謝部長的說明。其實上個禮拜陳院長也針對這部分要求各個相關部門研議來協助這些弱勢。當然勞工朋友不見得全部都是弱勢,不過相對來講還是需要勞動部這邊給予更多的幫忙。 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10294.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10305.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
其實我們也知道從111年起央行進行了6次的升息那這其中5次都有勞動部來做全額補貼這顯見說這部分勞動部針對減輕勞工的負擔真的有做非常多的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10311.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10339.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
除了這一部分以外我們也知道貸款也的確影響到蠻多我們這個勞動朋友的一些影響我們知道目前全國貸款的總數又有212萬人其中應該大部分是廣大的這個勞工朋友那目前辦理的這個清案貸款的確是可以有所益助不過假設以一千萬的房貸來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10340.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10358.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
每一年的這個利息會將近增加8000元這個對勞工朋友也是個負擔所以如果勞動部這邊有其他的這個方案的話我們希望能夠再協助那電價調整應該也是會多少對這個勞工朋友造成一些負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10359.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10374.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
可是我們擔心的就是其實這個實質的總薪資7年來反而是實質下降了1.04%是11年來的最低減幅所以這部分想要提醒部長就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10375.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10395.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
通常基本工資最低工資只是因應一個處理的標準那對於未來物價波動的因素能不能有辦法做成一個前瞻性的不只是基本工資的調整而且是能夠針對勞工朋友做一個工資上重要的變動因素的這個可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10396.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10412.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
大家未來在提升相關的工資的時候一個重要因素的參考這部分不知道部長有什麼看法基本工資當然是最低工資是針對弱勢勞工那一般的勞工部分當然我們就是跨部會會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10414.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10417.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10432.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10438.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
綜合社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、邀請勞動部部長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10462.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10485.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
也提出很多政策規劃的說明本席要特別提醒的是這些計畫或政策的落實真的必須要改善現況或者是在現場如果能夠維護到我們這些勞工朋友的安全因為我有這樣的作業需求的要求之下真的才能夠充分的保障勞工、勞動朋友的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10485.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10509.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
不過在這個長久的工作過程裡面其實他們的身體健康也必須要去定時的去了解跟去掌握那上一次也有提醒部長我們在質詢的部分就是針對勞動安全是很希望能夠真的是有機會去落實那尤其是對於一些高風險的這個場域齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10511.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10532.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這部分我們也了解很多的這個勞工健檢的落實度其實是有需要再改善的就是我們看到至少500家以上並沒有落實這些特殊健檢對勞動朋友在他的這個長期工作之下造成了一些問題那這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10535.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10555.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們往下看知道有一些醫療機構在做這些健康檢查的時候呢也需要在特別的加強這部分已經兩個禮拜過去了上一次的質詢裡面有請這個相關單位去做了解不知道目前有有執行到哪一個程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10555.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10558.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10571.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10597.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
勞工健檢醫院的那個平和機制,我們有A、B、C、D級那比較不好的像委員這樣錄出來C跟D我們會做要求做改善第二年在平建的時候如果還沒有改善我們還做後續處置所以讓勞工健檢的有效達到勞工的身體狀況這是我們期待這個正向的循環那有關比較目前還比較不理想的那個勞工健檢醫院我們會再做後面的那個集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10598.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10615.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第11屆第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10623.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10639.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
發現目前實際的狀況在這個國內企業GI403揭露情形其實普遍性是不足的那這一部分勞動部這邊還是希望能夠提出更有效的誘因跟具體作為來改善這個永續經營的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10641.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10642.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
公職勞動部主管委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10666.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10692.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
高雄這個遊覽車的車禍好像是因為連續開15個小時他這個我們不知道這個連續開15個小時他是一直坐在他的駕駛座方向盤上還是當中有其他問題不過我相信所有的這個大客車的駕駛他的工作除了影響到他的個人健康以外那都是一個公共安全的一個很大的威脅那剛剛有很多委員提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10692.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10708.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
目前真的這個駕駛的缺工也是非常的嚴重這邊北市也說他們這個缺工的這個主額也是越來越上升那我們也理解這個缺工是有一定的這些因素的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10709.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10722.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那很期待我們這個勞動部可以跟交通部有效的去做相關因應的措施來讓這樣的對於我們的這些辛苦的駕駛們 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10724.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10746.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
除了他在工作上更安全以外也針對他的身體健康還有各方面的這些勞動條件都能夠有效的改善那當然也要有好的稽查還有如何能夠讓這樣的安全措施可以更為落實部長能不能也在這個在這邊先說明一下努力的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10748.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10762.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這個我想像駕駛的這個工時問題我們其實一直都非常重視每年都有專案的勞檢檢查結果都給交通部來去督促業者必須要法尊要一定要做那 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10763.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10787.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
另外就是我們其實關於司機的這個缺工的問題這個部因為主管機關在交通部我們會尊重他們的決定那因為這個是屬於白領的專機人員所以相關的資格還有相關的條件那後續的這個協助我們也都來幫忙謝謝好那就一起努力好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10790.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10793.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
2022年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10809.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10827.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
部長午安 這個我們還需要來關心一下這個嘉峰旅業嘉峰旅業它爆炸導致了26傷其實是很重大的這個公安危機它死者都是移工那這個重傷的三位本國籍、三位外國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10828.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10843.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
其實這完全暴露3K產業的工作環境還有它的職業安全急迫性的提升和改善那我們今天在這裡當然要討論它以外也要再討論如何輔導業者都導業者除了要遵循法尊以外其實更要重視職業安全和衛生 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10845.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10857.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
我們的救福法第54條講到如果僱主因為重大的職災造成移工死亡或失能以廢止聘僱許可等但是這個都是事後啦當然防範於這個事前更重要所以我們在想說你有沒有辦法將重大職災這個預防的這個措施執行狀況列為申請聘僱移工的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10876.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10891.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
該有什麼配套?你聘僱移工的時候要有這樣的能力或者是配套我們才得以准許這樣子那我們再說回來這個根據高雄市政府的說法這個嘉峰旅業他從2021年起他就執行過14次的安慰的勞動檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10897.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10918.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
然後一共發現了五項的違規那這個違規是什麼它違規就是沒有依規定針對新進的勞工或是特殊作業的勞工實施安全教育訓練或者是教育訓練不足包括沒有依規定這個包括以及為依規定實施機械設備還有車輛機械自動檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10925.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10943.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
當時這五項的違規後來沒有開罰沒有開罰的原因是說它在期限內的確改善了所以沒有開罰但是我們都知道現期改善其實是你說你要對新進勞工要做安全教育然後要實施這個機械設備和車輛機械自動檢查都是書面資料書面資料連簡附照片都不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10950.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10970.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以沒有開罰但是不是真的做了我們不知道老師說了因為這個規定其實你沒有要求這個書面資料也沒有要求要檢附影像資料當然他就書面資料來你當然就認為認定是改善了啦但我們從事後來看他今天是水深入鋁湯當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10971.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10987.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以對於機械設備的操作還有教育訓練的確就是關鍵可是教育訓練跟機械設備操作它也發生過違規你們也認為它改善了那我們的要求標準其實很低的書面有沒有再檢討的空間可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10990.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11019.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
法委員我想因為其實我們他他書面過來之後其實應該你們也會去複查也會去現場複查阿這個有去複查過嗎有有有嗎我們應該怎麼複查法有沒有教育訓練怎麼複查法跟委員報告好我們檢查寫了切結書了現在看的缺失比如說教育訓練這個勞工有沒有教育訓練有沒有教育訓練看回來看有沒有再辦這個教育訓練看教育訓練的紀錄跟相關資料來佐證他有沒有再重複違反如果沒有複查沒有改善就會處罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11020.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11038.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我告訴你沒有啦我們問過真的不是那樣子連現場今天連這個爆炸現場最荒謬的是這個包括有沒有移工母國語言告示的工作應注意事項有嗎?連這個都有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11043.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11059.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個也是基本條件啊可能連這個都沒有而且是你們認定有改善不予裁罰書面審查的資料你說你有去複查就我們所知是沒有的就書面審查而已所以我剛剛再加一點說 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11061.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11076.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
工廠的工作現場有沒有落實最基本的你的外勞的移工的母語他的應該告示他應注意事項要以他的母語來告示有沒有都還是問號那我現在要來講監察院怎麼講他這個是屢次違規過去曾經4次 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11081.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11099.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
而四次的違規都跟這一次爆炸事件的疏失有關所以我再一次提醒你但我要講監察院的110年的報告指出移工的職災失能簽人率是本國勞工的兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11101.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11125.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那主要的原因是因為移工從事的經常是傳產的工作裡面3K的機器老舊、欠缺安全裝置或者是為了提升產出的速度關閉安全裝置或者是欠缺值錢教育的訓練讓移工的工作更容易發生受傷的意外 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11126.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11143.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為缺乏有效的職災的通報平台造成危險機械沒有被勞檢單位查出沒有台灣導致職災事故的發生反覆的這個機率很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11145.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11158.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這份是這個監察院的報告那職災死亡跟職業傷病的這個簽人率他沒有顯著的這個這個明顯可是在失能簽人率很高為什麼你知道有多高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11165.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11178.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
105年本國籍勞工0.25的簽人率外籍移工是0.6到109年0.21的本國籍的簽人率在外籍移工身上還是0.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11185.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11210.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
監察院的糾正報告不是我捏所以我們一定要在針對這些缺失指證我們要可是保定110年捏你說現在110年就告訴你們這個問題很嚴重所以你們對於說他講的3K產業機器老舊欠缺安全裝置或是為了提升產出速度關閉安全裝置或者是欠缺職前教育訓練等 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11212.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11226.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
111年到現在113年了,保證不是說你要回去檢討要改進110年告訴你們到現在也都沒有改進啊我們其實都有一些精進的那你告訴我111年、112年簽人率有下降嗎有本土勞工的兩倍的現象有改進嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11233.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11243.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
防災衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：立法院第1會期社會福利及衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11254.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11268.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
處長你講得太好了你講說進來本國的時候就要教育訓練可是這是事實嗎?你們對為了強化勞工基本危害辨識能力你們專屬針對移工設立教育安全訓練但僅限於七項啦七項 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11270.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11276.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我先告訴你你們在這個108年邀請了有關訓練單位代表共同研商針對外籍義工有間歇性操作需求的堆高機起重機吊掛作業人員要研議及洗翻譯的具體做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11292.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11316.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
但是你們112年增加了高空工作車操作人員還有洋溢缺溶接裝置等等但是我告訴你這裡面有幾個大問題比如說這個失能裡面這個高空衰落很嚴重的營造業或者是製造業因為製程反覆涉及到化學反應的部分也應該要列入但是你們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11318.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11324.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
要列入可是狀況有幾個第一個你們開班授課對產業義工的涵蓋率預期要多高產業義工幾十萬那你們覺得這個開班授課率能夠涵蓋多廣的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11333.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11355.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
包委員其實教育訓練的本質是每個工廠的那個樣態是不太一樣的所以我們教育訓練應該是僱主依照工廠樣態給高工比較好的教育訓練那我們進本國的時候是給一般基礎的教育訓練的觀念想法還有旨在補償的一些機制讓勞工知道那回到職場裡面本來就是要讓勞工僱主讓勞工先做教育訓練才可以上工啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11355.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11357.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
二、工廠要自行實施的安慰訓練有用移工的母語進行嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11373.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11386.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
或現場的告示牌全部都有用這個移工的母語告示了嗎這也是一個問號啊所以在這種你講的你也看到了說這個植栽師能力相對高的這個產業然後你要認為要加強一點訓練可是最終政府能夠加強的訓練的數量涵蓋率太少了太低了還是要靠事業單位可是事業單位願不願意做有沒有做問號這要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11402.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11421.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
各位回報,雖然是移工或特殊弱勢族群的教育訓練,現場就是它是弱點,所以要更好的教育訓練。所以我也想說,我們教育訓練的規則,就是僱主的有沒有落實這個程度,我們如果做法制的一些修繕...好,署長你講得太好,但我再告訴你一個事實。你講說僱主有沒有做很重要,那我就要再告訴你僱主有沒有做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11422.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11430.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
桃園市政府勞工局執行移工安慰訪視他去查核了344家結果發現高達273家的事業單位不要講說教育訓練啦、安慰訓練啦光是提供外語版本的教育訓練的教材違規比例是八成沒有落實母語教育訓練然後聽我聽不懂也不知道啦然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11448.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11460.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
在這種狀況裡面這種方式這個我們都知道移工的語言上的隔閡很大嘛溝通上的限制就會造成這個安慰的對自身危害的辨識能力的障礙所以你如何督導事業單位去這個很重要啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11465.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11494.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那我們也知道說沒問題發生就沒問題但發生我們救福法第54條得以廢止聘雇但是監察院的調查報告指出啊過往的政府對重大職災中違反職安法義務的雇主從以前到現在只有救福法只有一個被一個雇主這麼多的這個職災傷害了失能的案例造成失能等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11495.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11511.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
只有一個被刪除聘僱額度所以也難怪啊這個政府不敢啟動救福法第54條啦不敢重演啦所以難怪僱主始終將移工當成這個用完急丟的商品反正失能了回去吃自己保險賠一賠然後再給一點錢了事 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11517.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11523.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我們都以為外籍移工是源源不絕的事實上是不是啊部長你們最清楚知道外籍移工現在不是源源不絕那勞動部你們要落實救福法的規範以外我剛剛講說我們要有些什麼機制來刻意雇主應該要更嚴格的這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11540.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11541.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們現在其實針對重大重大職災的我們都會 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11569.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11573.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
中大職災現在定義已經改了,中大職災是什麼?中大職災要通報的,光是通報的定義都改了啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11580.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11602.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
有事要是住院的就要通報了現在我要講的意思是說你如果造成死亡失能你現在連廢紙他得以繼續聘僱的這個法律工具在那裡蘿蔔跟棒子你蘿蔔沒有給棒子不敢用這整個體系就變成法律失能啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11602.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11625.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
委員我們這部份一定會落實來執行我現在在建議勞動部你要研擬在這個執安法的法尊情形要叫他們要實施教育訓練或是工作環境危險標示你這個是不是有使用移工母語語言的招募那個訓練或是現場的工作標示要納入招募許可應備文件和審查項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11628.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11639.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
你到底有沒有移工母語的安全標示那你的教育訓練有沒有提供這個部分都有提供而且有訓練那才有資格去聘僱 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11641.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11659.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
其實我是還有一個是臺美21世紀貿易倡議但是主席站起來了所以我就下次再說好了那我們現在在這裡就是說真的是要從這個加封旅業來看啦其實因為這種3K產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11661.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11688.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
每一個勞工不管是外籍或是本籍每一個勞動力都是很珍貴的每一個家庭都是靠這個勞工在支撐如果他失能或死亡了他的一家資助變成家裡的負擔變成家人一輩子本來是要來支撐這個家庭變成家庭還要來支撐他所以大家都知道說不能平病啊但一平病以後他們就往下沉淪家庭的處境是更不堪所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11689.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11711.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
不僅是發生事情了怎麼樣來賠償他補償他而已更應該要做的是職業安全衛生裡面講的職災預防預防預防是最重要的而我們法律工具擱著不用那個就是對勞工對來講其實最最我覺得是最不應該的啦好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11714.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11740.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
好謝謝林淑芬委員接下來請林德福委員發言謝謝主席是不是請那個勞動部徐部長請徐部長林委好部長你好我請教齁因為現在很多高齡加上少子化 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11741.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11746.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
到2023年6月全國的這些老化指數為149那照顧者一旦離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11751.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11774.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
人才流失也造成勞動力的折損經濟照顧壓力相當的吃重性別平等工作法雖然明定勞工可以請家庭照顧假但天數不夠且扣薪有民間團體建議比照日本由勞工保險支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11776.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11802.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
給予部分的薪資以利民眾安排長輩照顧計劃請問勞動部你們的看法如何當然現在針對這些如何讓勞工不會因為照顧而離職影響到他的經濟影響到產業的發展但是他這個就剛委員講的如果讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11804.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11829.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
家庭照顧假能夠不影響他的薪資所得但如果說要從勞保來指引那目前勞保財務上是有困難那是不是要參佐其他的政府另外用一個公共這個叫公共化的財源那這個都必須由院的層級跨部會來考量那你們過去完全都沒有去考量到這些就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11830.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11844.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11859.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11867.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這個沒有加強去落實稽查才讓這些業者心存僥倖勞動部後續以交通部會啟動專案稽查嗎?你們報告委員這個部分針對遊覽車客運業者的駕駛我們每年都有專案檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11877.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11890.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
從106年到現在我們已經執行了900多次那每次違法除了我們依法裁法以外也都會依請那個主管機關交通部加強來督導所以這個部分我們其實一直都有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11891.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11909.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我是希望你們一定要有一套制度嚴格的去要求規範因為你一而再再而三經常發生來那個部長根據媒體報導國內已經有外籍的司機啊奈及利亞的駕駛啊專門跑台北跟新竹的國道客運啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11917.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11922.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
公車司機的人力吃緊問題有縣市首長提議開放外籍司機 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11923.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11941.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那呼籲參考日本將運輸業駕駛列入可提供居留權的這些特定職業技能來吸引外籍人士投入公車司機解決通勤的民眾需求那本席是認為說除了駕駛技術外還必須要通過華語的測驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11947.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11976.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
必須要確保外籍駕駛能夠正確回應乘客的問題這是關鍵的因素部長你有什麼看法報告委員關於那個司機缺工的問題我們其實勞動部也協助那個交通部訓練司機也幫助媒合那當然要開放外籍的司機這部分他其實是屬於白領那這個部分整個全責是在交通部那由他來做各方的評估以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11977.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11978.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11997.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11999.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及勞動部主管預算凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12016.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12039.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
任何可行我們是尊重所有機關的決定因為這是當下存在的問題要未雨綢繆你該怎麼要求該怎麼做你們一定要提出一些看法我再請教最後一個議題上個月華航維修公安的意外造成維修人員往生請問勞動部後續處理的情況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12040.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12041.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
有關疫情解封後,航空業復甦、有關地勤、空服員、 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12065.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12087.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這個機師以及維修人員的勞工權利本期是希望勞動部與交通部要好好的去稽查這些工作因為馬上就是暑假出國的旺季即將到來本期不希望上演航空業罷工的這種狀況勞動部要趁早介入協商以維護民眾的權利部長你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12089.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12109.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個我們會來正式我希望很多事情你就是一定要事前去規劃不要事到臨頭然後很雜亂這個就是很這個一團亂我是希望勞動部這方面多用點心謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝林德福委員接下來請黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12133.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12135.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
二、系統主席麻煩有請部長請許部長黃委員好部長好蔡英文總統說勞工是她心裡面最軟的這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12148.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12177.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
這個理念我支持但是真的是這個樣子必須要經過檢驗近紅大火的時候五個消防員續職總統承諾不會讓他們白白犧牲這是2018年的事情現在已經2024年了結果我們的消防弟兄最在意的事情是他們在執行職務的時候到底有什麼辦法可以去保護他們研議了六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12178.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12203.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
各個單位都還在踢皮球從人事總署踢到保訓會踢到消防署我剛還沒有點名到勞動部但我們最近跟消防弟兄舉行了一場座談因為我希望第一線聽他們的心聲他們真的要的是什麼他們的立場現在很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12205.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12216.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
這一個公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法根本沒有用他們現在的訴求很清楚全面適用職業安全衛生法部長贊不贊成因為這個院的陳琦這邊有開過會那因為消防員主任院的陳琦開過會誰主持的誰主持的政府院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12234.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12260.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
綜文燦主持的會議的結論是什麼會議的結論是說我們在消防法的那我現在就明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄他們就不要在消防法裡面增訂嘛他們認為消防署根本沒有那個專業嘛可以保護他們的職業安全衛生嘛他們現在希望的是全面適用職業安全衛生法身為部長聽到我們的打火英雄提出這樣的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12262.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12285.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
同不同意?這個報告委員保護我們消防的安全這個部分我是絕對支持不要講空話啦講具體的適用的法律因為這個部分全責機關在內政部消防署消防署目前也有在跟消防公會的弟兄我就很明確的跟你講嘛消防弟兄就不贊成消防署放在消防法裡面嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12286.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12309.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
你先不要去管消防署怎麼講啦我現在是請教你從勞動部長的角度對於打火英雄這樣的訴求你有什麼樣子的看法 贊不贊成你可以講一句啊說愛難照辦 做不到這個也是一個答案嘛報告委員 我的意思是說保障他的職業安全這是我一定支持的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12309.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12333.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
只是說你要 這個在哪一個法律系裡面 這不是我能夠來做決定啦所以拍板的是鄭文燦嘛 對不對 是不是你們說你們院裡面有開會嘛 主席是鄭文燦嘛就是說他有召集相關部會來做討論 但是大家立場是一致的好 沒有關係齁 之前部長曾經說過警消人員的保護不能低於勞工朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12334.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12360.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
你也是在這個會議室裡面對其他的立委做這樣的宣誓嗎我們到時候具體的檢驗看到時候你們所要推出來的法律是不是有低於勞工朋友那我下一個比較好奇的事情是民間的消防隊勞工他們適用的是什麼法民間的消防隊勞工適用的是我們職安法那就奇怪啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12361.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12386.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
民間的消防隊勞工適用職安法我們真正的消防弟兄不是用職安法這是一國兩制民間的保護反而比我們政府聘的還要好是這樣嗎?對嘛!現在你又在講身份但我跟你講的是實職嘛民間的消防隊可以適用到職安法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12390.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12395.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那我們自己的打火弟兄沒有辦法適用職安法嗎這不是一國兩制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12397.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12420.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這哪裡有我們的消防員受的保護會比較好或者是不會低因為消防員他還是公務人員啦公務人員是身份的問題這個我了解吧公務人員的身份保障他的考權這個我都了解嘛現在我們在講的是他在實際做他的勞動行為的時候他所應該要受到的保護嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12420.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12433.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
是那部長你不會覺得很奇怪嗎民間的消防隊是用職安法結果我們的打火弟兄希望比照是用職安法我們的政府卻在推拖拖拉拉的藉口一堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12436.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12459.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
這個報告我剛剛就講說現在就是願意就是說我們在好沒有關係啦部長你今天在這邊的回答齁我相信全國的打火弟兄都聽到了你有你的立場他們接不接受那是另外一個問題好蔡總統啊上任的時候他說啊勞工政策六大保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12460.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12488.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
部長你覺得在蔡總統快要卸任的時候這勞工政策六大保障政見達成率有多少你打幾分分數是我不自己打分數不過我們大部分的政見都大部分的政見都怎麼樣這個六大保障我們應該都有都有去做到都有做到好來我們一樣一樣看今天時間的關係我也不曉得主席會給我延多久但 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12489.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12516.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我就尊重主席的才事啦台灣人月薪平均58,545這是我們主計總署講的這個有反映實際的狀況嗎這是平均嘛對 這個我了解嘛有多少人沒有達到這個平均值部長你知不知道部長你知不知道有多少人沒有達到這個平均值至少一半以上吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12517.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12522.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
你作為部長我老實講薪資的distribution你要比我還熟 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12524.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12547.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
來我秀給部長看啊百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的我從來不講空洞的東西啊我一定拿具體的數字出來講百分之70以上的勞工是低於平均數的但更重要的事情是什麼低於平均薪資的勞工比例啊年年攀升 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12548.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12566.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這代表什麼意思?新資結構的扭曲在平均新資以下的勞工比例越來越高從勞動部的角度上面來講我必須要講這是一個警訊但更重要的事情是什麼?但更重要的事情是我們的新資年增率 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12568.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12594.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
遠遠落後於南韓這個數字喔是央行做出來的喔央行做出來的數字說台灣的薪資年增率遠遠落後於南韓但是為了是什麼因為我們勞工佔GDP比例不斷的下降嘛作為勞動部的部長您認為台灣過去這幾年整個經濟成長的果實有公平的分配到勞工身上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12598.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12608.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個當然還不足啦這個當然還不足嘛好不足那作為勞動部部長你認為應該要怎麼樣努力才可以讓我們的勞工他可以分配到我們經濟成長的果實 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12611.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12629.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
具體的辦法是什麼你也承認不足了嘛那我現在請教你具體的辦法是什麼報告委員吼其實勞工薪資的一個提升吼是要跨部會啦吼來努力啦吼所以你的意思就是不管你勞動部不是不是只有你勞動部的事嘛要跨部會來努力嘛跨部會來努力啊說得很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12630.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12640.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那又如何跨部會來努力?你總不能講空話嘛!如何跨部會來努力?現在我在請教你的是你具體的措施到底是什麼嗎?央行的那份報告部長你有看嗎?央行提供一個最重要的政策建議對勞動部來講是什麼你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12658.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12686.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
他是認為我們調整幅度上可以再更...你贊不贊成央行的看法報告委員我們這幾年是這樣子因為也碰到疫情啦吼我們是沒有關係啦我尊重啦我知道我不是本委員會的委員啦本委員會的委員演的時間可以比較多啦非本委員會的委員我尊重主席的才是啦沒有委員已經超過4分鐘了吼好那是不是請剛剛超過的時間只有4分鐘嗎再請那個你要不要調會議紀錄出來看委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12688.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12690.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
你這樣主持議事有中立嗎?接下來請賴氏寶委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12719.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12724.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請許部長請許部長委員好你好我比較關心啊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12734.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12749.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
勞保外面的數字啊都大家很擔心了一點說2028年會破產假如都按照現在現況走的話勞保的潛在負債 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12752.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12771.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
12兆之多這兩個數字你要不要回應一下報告委員這個2028破產對不對這個2028基金用期是根據上一次的這個精算報告我們精算報告是每三年精算一次今年今年還會再精算那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12774.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12777.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
2011年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12805.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12817.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
到目前為止一共2670億去年多少去年是550公務預算450特別預算100所以去年是550那今年呢公務預算1200加上特別預算100所以今年是1300那這從109到現在這5年撥補了總編列的預算是26702670億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12833.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12846.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
這這樣可以撐多久他可不可以這樣的撥補我就問你一個比較白話的啦齁政府要每年撥補勞保多少錢讓勞保不會在2028年破產那個簡單報告委員因為沒辦法算 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12854.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12880.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
如果我們都目前吼 報告委員 如果我們按照現在來講現在如果按照今年的一千三吼 要報一千三的話是到一百二十二年吶就二零二十二而已啊不是咧 一百二十二年是二零二十二一百二十二那就是二零一九一二零三三所以通五年確定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12881.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12883.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
今天這個是全國都在看那個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12884.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12910.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
所以就每年要給你補多少嘛就是問你這個數字你一直沒有回答我希望每年補多少最少五百最好一千更好兩千你不要講那麼快不是報告委員我們當然勞保的撥補我們希望就是因為他的撥補是對財務的穩定是有幫助的啦齁如果說政府的財政許可齁能夠多撥補我想會讓勞工更安心啊你心裡總要有數字嘛你這個身為勞動部的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12913.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12921.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你應該說我最少政府應該給我每年多少以前我們就算過上一屆我們就算過其實每年給你1000億可能都要不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12923.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12923.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
所以陳建仁院長他主持年輕改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12952.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12971.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
他 說勞保是要一起改的結果勞保卻不敢改啊你就給你一千億都不夠了你就被破產了怎麼敢改呢所以這一塊根本就不敢改嘛只要找公家人員拚命來開刀而已啊變這個樣子第二個我想請問你那個下一次的公視條長什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12973.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12986.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
審議會什麼時候開?下一支最低工資是不是?今年的第三季第三季喔通常我們就是7、8、9這三個月我看了一下這個相關的資料你們說要把CPA納入來考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12988.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13000.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
CPA是法定的喔我們大院通過的就是說因拆採的數據一定要考慮CPI那其他得拆採的數據還有10項這些最後還是你們決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13004.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13007.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
你現在講說勞工現在平均薪資多少?勞工的平均薪資多少?平均嗎?你說全國的?全國剛剛大概4萬多啊5萬8現在講4萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13032.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13035.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13049.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13076.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
平均啊我跟你講三分之二的勞工是低於平均薪資的第一個數字告訴你第二個數字我要告訴你一般來講說這個國家這個社會我們對勞工到底照顧到什麼程度有一個指標很重要就企業賺的錢分多少給資本家多少給勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13078.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13081.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
臺灣這幾年平均45%就是給勞工的45%歐盟都超過50%日本超過50%韓國超過50%許部長我的時間到囉這個我就請你很簡短的講你身為勞動部的部長你如何的爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13103.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13114.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
讓企業賺的錢多一點給勞工這個比什麼都重要我剛剛講了全世界大家在排我們是排在後面的我們賺的錢賺10塊錢給勞工不到5塊錢只有4塊半 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13119.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13147.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
歐盟都超過50%的美國當然不用講美國日本韓這個韓國都是超過50%我們低於50%這是一個很重要的指標我覺得部長你一定要想辦法是捍衛我們勞工的薪資啦你這樣子的話最低工資嘛休錢才有意義否則的話那看來數字齁薪水這麼高的這麼低的他平均起來喔好高喔事實上你去問一下平均能多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13148.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13155.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
平均領多少?三分之二領不到平均薪資這給你舒適好不好你緊急再信是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13156.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13178.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
好,謝謝賴世寶委員在這邊做以下的宣告我們中午就不休息那因為後面還有很多委員要發言那請部長如果剛剛在質詢台上來不及說明的請會後再跟委員做一個說明那可以用餐不用客氣可以用餐好,那接下來請陳培宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13185.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13187.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
有關罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13191.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13194.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
衛生管理制度、作業流程及必須要有效的糾正跟補救措施。後續在相關的法規我們也看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13217.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13242.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
勞動部有一個違反勞動法令事業單位跟僱主的查詢系統我們以現在畫面上看到這四項四個案件為例喔那部長您知不知道這個系統他所放的是什麼樣的人會不會什麼樣的單位會放在上面他到底違反了哪一條哪一個部分這個就是違反僱主的防治義務的或者是說他知情他沒有通報他沒有積極處理齁對通報的還沒有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13247.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13274.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
主管在這邊你好像還沒有通報的還沒有完成我跟部長您確認一下好來沒關係那部長你的幕僚幫您說明一下剛上路通報系統剛上路那這個部分的話我們建制完畢那這個是處罰系統對處罰系統部分的話顧主的通報義務應通報而未通報的那個處罰目前因為3月8號才剛開始所以後面如果有違法的那個事件的話那地方政府採取以後就會通報進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13275.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13289.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
對沒錯就是您剛講這個部分可是我們發現如果我是實習生我是實習生本人或者是我是實習生在學校指導老師我其實並不知道我的孩子我的學生或是我實習生本人即將要去實習的那個場域有沒有違反相關您剛說這個法律的問題於是呢我們就跟你們勞動部事先先請教過了確實目前這個系統他沒有辦法把資料再帶回報回去給教育部或者是各項教育單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13303.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13329.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
也就是說我們其實沒有辦法確保這些之前違反過相關法令的業主或者是單位他們在找實習生的時候其實孩子們是不知道他曾經有犯過這個相關的法規那我們這邊是不是可以快速跟勞動部討論一下有沒有什麼機制你們可以把這個資料倒回去給教育部或是因為教育部目前如果我要確保我的學生去的單位他沒有這個所謂的不適應教育人員我們可以讓學校端我一般個人還不能查 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13330.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13352.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
是學校端他必須要去教育部的一個系統就是不適任教育人員可是我並不知道他即將去的這個場域教育部好像有一個系統啊沒有就是教育部那個叫做不適任教育人員系統所以他是針對一個一個一個的人員如果他有性騷或者是其他的事情他被指認為不適任老師而且一般人不能查部長一般人不能查 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13354.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13358.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
除了學校可以查可是我們現在想既然勞動部你們已經有這個系統而且一般人可以查我們可不可以請你們協助教育部可以可以這個部分委員如果這個部分我請那個業務單位跟教育部這邊對一下我覺得這個我們應該要去把它建制啦該有所為而沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13377.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13378.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13396.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13405.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
應該是讓學生本人實習生本人可以查這個比較重要實習生本人他要意識到我要來查這件事情所以教育部從上到教育部到地方教育局處再到各個實習學校大家都要意識到說原來我要實習前我去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13411.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13413.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
實習生去這邊稍微注意一下有沒有這個機制目前是沒有的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13441.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13441.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
懷疑有關勞動部主管預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13442.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13442.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
謝謝部長 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13471.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13477.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、邀請勞動部部長就:「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13493.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13506.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
養老人好部長好部長我們繼續討論喔我每一次都跟你討論本席跟你討論喔我們現在2023年你的這個老闆基金的精算啦吼你的負債現在多少錢償負債啦吼錢償負債大概12兆多吼12兆13兆多吧要扣掉責任準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13519.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13544.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
他有一個責任準備金啦,如果...對...如果加起來...對啦...如果精算現在...如果是整個加起來精算負債是13兆13...將近要13.5兆了啦,部長我每一次跟你討論這個,因為上一個年度你是12.3兆啦你又把我整個7000多億了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13546.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13559.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那這怎麼辦那所以我一直在跟你討論平均每一個人的老百負背負的是要56萬那你如果2020年你精算的是11.5兆那今天呢怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13561.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13575.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
每一次本席跟你說你都說你跟他們在討論啟動年金改革還有你會告訴本席一句話政府沒辦法勞動部一定沒辦法不要再用這種言語啦這種騙術喔這種話術不好聽啦詐騙的話術不好聽來我們實質來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13582.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13598.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
不過本席在看到你今天所送來的你的預算解凍案的報告當中你還是跟過去一樣啊你的答案還是一樣在研擬修法你己各藉意見部長我們現在進度到底到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13600.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13624.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
部長,現在進度到哪裡?就持續在收集意見你還跟你的書面資料一樣啊,你每一次都講一樣的啊你時間點勒,你的KPI制定在哪裡?你的時間表跟你的具體進展是怎麼樣?沒有這樣負債一直增加,然後每一次都告訴我們這個答案啊政府不會倒,政府如果沒倒,勞保不會倒,我會怕咧? |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13627.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13634.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我持續再提起社會意見那現在怎麼辦?你的進度告訴我進度好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13635.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13660.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
報告委員因為就是這個勞保年改因為牽涉到千萬的勞工60萬的投保這個理由都很清楚已經這麼多年了8年了到底有沒有進度請告訴我們這也是你告訴我們的我按年金改革啊8年了你進度告訴我進度方面我們有共識的部分就是撥補這一塊我們有做到撥補我請問現在現在要撥補給你多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13664.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13665.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
這個對財務的這個穩定是有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13674.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13694.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
部長你身為我們勞動部的部長你要站在勞工這邊啦我們就是站在勞工這邊要檢出撥補啊這撥補也好讓勞工安心嘛這個是治標不會治本所以你的根本是你答應我們的要年金改革所以本市還是告訴你請你把你的時間表具體的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13699.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13703.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
順便資料給本席新政府會進行改革嗎?請教新政府會不會進行改革?會不會持續改革?我不能代表新政府來回答你沒有信心你繼續做保證是嗎?你為什麼這樣子推責任不負責任你現在是部長喔我現在還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13728.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13756.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
還是現任的勞動部部長啊所以你現在沒得到諮詢是不是對我已經講過了我說我現在就是做好目前的工作希望能夠順利交通給在意的嘛好我還是告訴你有政府不會倒這樣子的口號請你不要再用這種口號騙術、話術、白粉刷已經這麼多年了請你注意聽把你改革的進度你的時間表跟具體的進展書面資料給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13758.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13760.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
應照頁最近113年設定應照頁墜落打擊年,因為在整個111年裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13782.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13805.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那我們看到墜落的部分是佔了70%所以113年設定營造業墜落打擊年那請教目前你們怎麼樣去改善之?你的人員你檢查人員夠不夠要怎麼去改善請教部長竟然有這個口號出來就是嚴重的問題怎麼改善他?怎麼防止他? |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13808.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13814.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13835.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13840.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13862.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13868.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
能夠完成不要再墜落了最後一個議題馬上最後謝謝主席最後一個議題漲價了我們勞工怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13872.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13883.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
關於自來水公司我問他說你電價漲了之後你會增加多少成本他告訴我10億我問了經濟部長那是你所屬的你會不會給他10億沒有那是怎麼辦我們電價怎麼辦陳院長說漲價跟電價它沒有直接的關係我們說電價 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13892.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13911.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
已經開始要漲價囉怎麼辦民生很苦勒勞工很苦勒怎麼辦還是要吃飯啊怎麼辦通勤族的觀光捷運因為漲價他要增加多少電費增加他的成本會增加會不會轉嫁到通勤族我們都好緊張耶都很緊張耶連一個麵包我們也很緊張耶你看一個麵包電要給他加好 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13917.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13923.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
三萬元的這個電費他會不會漲價你認為會不會漲價因為電價漲而產生物價會漲你認為會不會漲是有可能大家都同意啊國防會主委說會漲啊那我們的勞工怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13934.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13955.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以這個部分我們會持續關注你要怎麼關注對這個消費者物價指數的影響他會漲啊那老公怎麼辦你的最低薪資最低工資法對那個CPI對消費者物價指數年增率這個是因參財指標法定因參財指標那其實這個CPI就是包括了 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13956.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13983.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
居住類相關的指數彩米油鹽包括電所以現在通通都會漲一定都會漲所以你要怎麼辦今年我們在討第三季我想最低工資審議會在討論什麼事要討論第三季在7、8、9我們最低工資都是第三季決定我想到時候委員會斟酌相關的因素去做一個合理的決定所以我要你一個資料電價上漲對於勞工的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13986.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13998.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
你請書面資料給本席在你第三季要開會的時候你要怎麼樣建議方案讓我們勞工可以穩定生活好不好謝謝好謝謝楊瓊英委員接下來請羅志強委員發言主席有請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14015.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14034.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
羅文浩部長好我想接續剛剛楊瓊玉委員的一個提醒我看到我們的那個勞保的負債楊瓊玉委員數據指出2023年是13兆然後但是我們現在勞保改革按大家心中說有政府不會倒他是提醒不要一直在講這句話對不對你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14038.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14055.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
因為會講這句話是要讓勞工安心絕對不是騙數為什麼就是因為這是政府辦的保險這是社會保險國家的社會保險我為什麼跟你講尤其最近少講知道嗎因為最近如果這個邏輯成立的話有政府台電也不會倒那不要漲電價了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14056.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14079.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以有政府不會倒說真的是一個非常非常簡化的一個說法那勞保的問題還是要透過根本性的改革才有辦法去支撐下去否則那你照這個邏輯講的話電價真的也不用漲反正有政府不會倒我想請教部長您的報告裡面有關於說職業安全衛生的經濟我看到一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14080.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14104.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
勞動部的報告說把死亡人數下降當作減災有成效的證明嘛對不對那我想請教您其實不只是死亡啦包括死亡永久全失能永久部分失能跟暫時全失能的失能傷害次數是不是也應該作為職業安全衛生的改善指標呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14104.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14106.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我告訴你就是2020年、2021年跟2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14130.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14136.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
所以就是這連續三年分別高達12,010人、12,830人跟12,662人次那我想請教您為什麼會一直這樣子創新高呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14148.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14170.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
因為我們那個災保法通過以後對失能者的一個照顧保護更周全這個有可能就是讓這些失能者願意來通報然後領取相關給付那我再跟您說看我看到數字事實上除了您剛剛講的通報問題以外跟我們的工時數也有關係對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14174.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14176.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14191.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14217.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我告訴你好了80億9765萬小時啦所以我們的總工時其實正在不斷的上升那當然這也不是唯一指標啦可是我們如果再繼續看細部的就是說我們用人次處理工時的私人傷害頻率來看的話你知道馬政府上任前的2007年頻率是多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14218.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14219.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
公職的私人傷害頻率﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14235.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14252.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我已經跟你講我要從這個鋪陳的是人次除以公時的這就平均數了嘛對不對的私人傷害頻率的話請問馬政府這個上任前2007年的頻率是多少你知道嗎我告訴你啦是2.33啦到2016年他卸任的時候是降到1.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14258.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14275.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那現在蔡英文總統是從2016年的1.44到2022年的1.56那顯然我覺得私人傷害頻率的這個增加不管是從總數跟人次來看的話我覺得不能只推給通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14276.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14291.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
對,沒關係委員我覺得齁您這個數據給我們齁就來檢討看看說到底關聯性是怎樣我覺得這個我們就把它深究一下來您覺得什麼補這個加強齁改進措施也就提供個書面資料給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14293.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14308.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
另外我還有就是覺得勞動部在關心職業安全的部分我覺得可以更專心一點你知道為什麼嗎?因為我看到你的官網上職業安全的宣導專區你知道幾項宣導在上面嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14309.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14334.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就四項啦其中一項跟職業安全毫無關聯是經濟部投資臺灣三大方案的延長三年圖卡當然我必須說啦這個投資這個延長這個宣傳政績很重要啦可是我覺得要放對地方吧而且重點是各項宣傳品的發布日期從你官網來看的話2015年以後就再也沒有更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14335.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14349.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
所以我是這樣覺得啦,就是說從我們的職業安全這一塊來講的話,我覺得部里齁,真的我覺得不管是宣導跟作為上都還是有更加努力的空間啦。好,我們會加強。好,以上,謝謝您。謝謝羅志強委員。接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14373.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14389.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
有關違反勞基法、性別工作平等法等裁罰公告都是由地方的勞工行政主管機關自行建立違反法規的公告專區後來讓事業單位可以有所警惕民眾可以公開查詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14389.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14409.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那勞動部為了方便民眾來查詢所以說整合各地方機關的公告資料建立了違反勞動法令事業單位主管機關的這個查詢系統請教現在當初建設這個違反雇主系統的主要目的跟預期效果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14414.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14419.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14444.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14464.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
來我們有看到勞基法公會法如果有違反的話後面你都還有特別標註這所謂的罰還金額那但是現在依據本系統我們看到如果說違反這個勞工職災災害保險跟保護法或是勞工退休金條例也都有這個罰還的金額但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14468.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14482.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
現在依據目前的系統如果說違反職安法或是性別工作平等法以及就業服務法中高齡者高齡就業促進法職業安全衛生法全都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14485.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14510.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這當中有什麼樣的一個落差為什麼我違反勞基法的時候你後面的法環就可以把它標上去但是違反性平法、就業服務法或者是這個高齡促進法以及職安法尤其這些重要的相關法令後面都沒有來做一個提示主要是這些相關的法令沒有法律授權所以我們沒有辦法公佈沒有辦法公佈這個就是要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14511.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14513.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14523.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14543.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
處罰沒有問題只是說在揭示的部分揭示的部分現行的法律並沒有明定說可以揭示也沒有授權給相關的執法部長認不認為說這應該要去來做一個公開我是覺得可以啦但是我們整個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14545.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14571.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
其實本席為什麼會提出這一點就是說這就是存在不同就是說當我們看到這一些他相關的這個違反的一個條例或是違反相關的一個這個行為的時候其實你能夠公開這相關的這個罰還的金額大小你就可以讓大家去知道是說他到底嚴重不嚴重或是說有沒有累犯的一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14571.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14578.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
因為過去我們就看到很多的公司他其實怎麼樣他違法的嚴重程度其實你不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14580.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14607.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那如果說針對不管是我們的職安法或說針對我們的性別平等法其實這都是現在大家越來越重視的但是我們要公布這所謂的這個黑名單其實某種程度上它也是一種示警的效果告訴大家說壞人越壞我們要讓他公布好人越好如果說你今天可以查詢到你上面沒有的話某種程度上你也是一個業者至親也是認為說業者是一個符合規範符合標準的部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14607.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14623.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
同意部長所以我們現在就在講過去一直有承諾說應該要改善或說應該有一些這種職安法一直有這些慣犯來去做履罰不怕甚至把罰款當然是經營成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14624.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14648.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那這些要怎麼樣補強我們有沒有建立譬如說持續犯這個不管是違反這個職安法或是違反這相關法令的這業者有所謂的這黑名單或是有所謂的這個比較市井的項目像那個職安法也就是那個重大職災地圖就會把它做一些標示然後那個如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14648.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14653.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那你列為主要對象是指地方政府他的自行列管還是勞動部這邊有做一個總和管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14678.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14678.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
應不應公佈? |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14694.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14715.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
高風險高值責因為本席現在講是說你既然已經有列這樣子一個重大訊息我也看到你今天的報告第5頁特別講說提升安全衛生以及公安的文化紮根第一點就是督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練那本席也認為啊如果說你要督促雇主落實必要的教育訓練其實要從誰下手 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14717.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14722.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及二、處理中華民國11年度中央政府總預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14738.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14764.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
或說要示警或說讓大家知道是說在這一些可以民眾可以查詢的檔因為我們每一次的檢查一定會公佈嘛那公佈的時候就是這裡面就看得到他是雷範嘛部長您之前所說每一次檢查有公佈但是本席有特別去查囉其實很多時候你都是只有透過機關去發布新聞稿而且通常都是重大的新聞事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14765.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14779.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
你沒有針對每一個你去做一個檢視的時候的那很有可能會發生什麼情況就是大家只知道說你的新聞稿或說大家有看到的時候才會注意但是你沒有一個地方是能夠讓大家去瀏覽或是review的 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14781.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14805.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
所以說這是不是應該要去來檢討或是說建議本集今天提出一個建議當然這可能會還有衍生其他的問題但我現在提出一個建議是說在針對這樣的一個系統裡面能夠更強化明確就是說如果有累犯或者是說有一些黑心的廠商黑心的企業持續違反相關的一個法令的時候應該要示警或說變成是一個黑名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14808.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14823.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
正能不能去做一個檢討?或是說做一個討論?我們來討論看看啦委員可能是說比如說他這一次又違規公佈阿有沒有辦法有一個標示說其實他已經是他已經累犯幾次甚至說累犯幾次或是說屢勸不聽或是說違反多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14824.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14846.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
違反次數我是覺得可以把它揭示出來違反次數可以把它揭露出來我們來討論一下看怎麼來一而再再而三針對某個地方違反次數把它給揭露出來讓國人或說讓求職者甚至說一般的民眾甚至我可能跟往來做生意的人可能也會覺得是說怎麼會有這樣子一個離譜的一個業者是不是多久能夠來做這樣的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14850.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14855.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
五二零之前行不行?我怕五二零之後我諮詢不到您了 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14878.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14879.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
謝謝紅夢凱委員接下來請牛許廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14915.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14920.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
我們等一下投影片謝謝主席這個勞動部長有請請許部長委員好部長午安今天在討論職場安全本席有三個題目跟你就教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14937.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14954.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
來第一個近期有蠻多重大公安事件比如說在本期的選區這個陳恩殺死場案堆置過量土方掉下來砸死計程車司機這個終結的吊壁案這個鋼樑掉落造成的捷運的車禍那最近桃園的這個下水道的案件也有很多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14955.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14957.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
新規施工警示不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14979.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15007.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
針對這個墜落職災要做加強的預防嘛對不對說叫做營造業的墜落打擊年好這當然有一個明確的方向這當然是一件好事喔但是喔我看後面的這個報告的內容喔我就有點疑慮了為什麼呢因為你寫了一大堆比如說我們有平台啦安全管理資訊啦鼓勵輔導教育訓練啦擴大安全行銷啦這些東西可是我想大家想要看到的是萬一真的發生不幸的事件的時候那個處罰的機制到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15008.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15014.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我覺得嚇阻恐怕比這些輔導更有效我不是講輔導不好可是嚇阻有其必要所以我就以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15016.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15036.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
以這個狀況來講來跟大家請問一下第一個落實公共安全我覺得至少我們可以先從政府機關開始我們有很多的公共工程公共工程的安全性要優先確保對不對你政府要帶頭做示範那我現在請問你除了提高檢查裁罰跟停工措施之外這個萬一真的有廠商發生了公安事件直接踩過你這一條紅線請問還有沒有什麼處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15040.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15065.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
其實委員齁我們因為這個處罰一直都是有的啦齁啊法規都是對嘛你就是罰款嘛跟停工嘛對不對其實委員停工對他們其實是最他們最在意的他們最在意那個沒錯嘛那個是當下的第一時間的處分嘛當下的第一時間停工然後他一定要改善完善限改之後處理完才能允許復工那處罰其實處罰齁當然我們依照規定來處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15066.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15088.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
我現在要問的是嚇阻啦就是你要有強而有力的措施去嚇阻嘛比如說公共工程我就問了嘛因為時間有限啦不好意思喔比如說發生公安事件這個廠商會不會被列入公共工程委員會被列入黑名單有沒有揭露的機制剛剛洪本凱文我覺得他問得非常好都沒有我覺得揭露的東西說得不夠清楚的啊有沒有限制投標的規模在評選時候會不會扣分你們就簡單回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15090.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15115.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
具體的做法是什麼有沒有你會有提供一份資料好不好我是覺得這個你都要寫進報告裡啊大家才會清楚嘛對不對你除了有輔導之外你有嚇阻嘛對不對你不要覺得大家好像覺得好像只有一半這是不對的那第二個我要針對民間工程公共工程如果有做那民間工程你有什麼手段可以嚇阻這樣子的廠商這種每次都這五大山出喔都忽略這種職場安全的你有什麼嚇阻的手段除了你既有的罰款跟停工之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15117.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15137.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
其實我們民間工程我們主要是跟那個地方的政府管單位跟營建署這邊對於它相關的可能營建的一些申請或什麼都會在日後都會被列為本人建議如果你公共工程有相關的一些手段的話你民間工程也要有相對的手段吧比如本期建議嘛比如說你就 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15138.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15138.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
第二個我問一下最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15166.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15188.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
大家有討論這個馬上我們天氣越變越熱了昨天就已經突破30度了這之前勞動部曾經有研議過我們要有高溫架的這個配套措施請問有沒有下文我們沒有報告人那個高溫那不是架我們是個措施就是如何去在避免在高溫的這個環境下去工作那會採取一些防避的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15190.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15191.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
我們就有相關的規範就是可以處罰他哪一些相關規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15220.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15233.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
在我們各位報告我們設置規則針對在一定溫度以上的那個狀況下來從事工作他如果沒有做預防措施我們治安法規跟法規是可以做處置的但是剛才委員講到一個重點是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15234.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15258.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
在氣候變遷狀況下面夏日的溫度飄高我們現在社會說那段時間要暫時停止工作要做工作時間的一些管理不要讓勞工暴露在這樣子的風險下面所以應該是從管理上面來做著手好因為時間有限一樣你會有提供資料最後一個這個30秒之內我把這題目收完你剛剛講說營造業防墜落很重要我告訴你這不只人墜落很重要東西墜落也很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15259.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15274.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這個前一陣子發生的那個冷氣掉下來砸死人的事件這件事情我認為也是廣義的職場安全維護很重要的一個題目那過去的時候因為這很複雜你的大樓裝冷氣公寓大廈主管機關國土署對不對但是這個安全又是你負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15274.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15297.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
你這跨部溝通的協調有沒有一個具體的進度因為現在的狀況新北跟桃園因為出過事所以大家就有一些更好、細緻的SOP可是你這細緻的SOP缺乏中央的法源依據以至於你沒有辦法你沒有法則沒有執行力啊最後就淪於空談沒有強制力請問勞動部現在如果你講說這個是內政部要修法你有沒有具體的修法建議去避免這樣的東西去完善這部分的職場安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15298.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15321.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
各位報告冷氣應該先說那個結構結構體的一個附加裝置所以這個部分確實營建署跟我們有一些合作的對啊這跨部會的修法嘛那我們的部分是工作者在工作的時候他如果確保他安全防護能夠達到讓勞工不會因為這樣在在裝冷的時候退租下來或是東西掉下來這部分我們也會把我們的SOP跟那個國土署做進一步的合作那國會署已經有一個基本規範出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15322.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15345.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
因為去年7月發生這件事後面好像就沒有然後了好不好所以我們希望重新這個事情要有個具體的期程表可以嗎好不好這一樣會後可以給大家做參考可以嗎好不好意思主席謝謝好謝謝牛許廷委員接下來請顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員顏寬恆委員不在接下來請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15345.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15362.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
接下請張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員不在。接下來請謝依鳳委員、謝依鳳委員、謝依鳳委員不在。接下來請游浩委員、游浩委員、游浩委員不在。接下來請鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員不在。接下來請陳穎委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15382.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15406.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
現在主席麻煩請周署長請周署長我們今天專報的題目有講到這個職業安全衛生管理跟公安文化所以我想就這兩個主題來跟您請教一下首先我們就這個管理的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15411.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15437.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
事業單位應依其事業之規模性質設置安全衛生組織及人員建立職業安全衛生管理系統並且第二條規定一危害風險之不同區分分為三個等級有這個顯著中度及低度風險的事業我想請教一下就是你們如何去認定這個風險的等級然後這個依據是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15438.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15441.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
綜合分類等級。該數應該是根據我們過去他千人率的狀況下來做一些判斷來做6分6月風險的這個的區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15450.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15468.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以就是早期就是以這個千人率來作為依據那舉例來說那因為這個漁業的這個職債死亡率非常高啦是我們全產業的這個前三名但是呢我們對照這個表他竟然是列為第二類的中度風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15469.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15470.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
事實不符嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15490.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15506.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
三、四、五、六、七、八、八、七、八、八、七、八、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15514.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15537.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
從剛剛那個署長講的都是以前依據千人綠然後再來就是說以前早期那個這個在這個洗染液染的部分是怎麼樣怎麼樣比較堵我們一直聽到這個以前好那這個所以我接下來就要問你這個風險等級幾年沒有修訂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15538.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15556.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
應該是103年之後就沒有再修了我是懷疑說是不是從民國64年到現在可能這張副表1都沒有修正過你可不可以說明一下你說一百多年報告委員統一國會是因為是都有解答但是確實現在的版本是104年這個沒有錯但是104年還是105 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15564.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15568.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
103年6月26日公布的版本這個副表什麼時候有修正過沒有應該是這個訂之後沒有再修過最多了不起給你增加一個第三類的部分而已再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15594.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15617.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
第1類的事業單位的勞工人數100人以上就要設置直屬僱主的一級管理單位管理人員也要專職第二類的事業單位的勞工人數就300人以上才要比照辦理所以我要請教這個100人跟300人的區分是有什麼樣的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15619.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15635.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
原因就是我們在訂這個法規的時候因為不同的公司那個事業規模等級來做那個做區隔啦所以我想應該是當作立法的目的在這邊比較風險比較高的他人數比較到達一定程度就要專責人員來做安全衛生防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15636.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15657.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
因為我剛剛問完這個問題你的反應還你的表情還蠻特別的你等一下回去自己倒帶看一下因為我很想解讀你那個表情的反應是什麼然後除了就是從這個勞工人數反映的這個事業單位規模那直接跟設置的這個財務能力有關以外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15658.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15683.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
其實我現在看不出來就是說這樣的一刀切到底是有什麼跟職業安全衛生是有關聯性的那我也不曉得說書長你看法是怎麼樣我們現在這樣講是我們第一類是高風險的他人數100人我們就要教授他有比較適度的人力做安全的管理展開那第二類當然是300人是用這個風險跟切歸母來做分 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15684.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15699.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
對對這個這個我理解就是風險這個有寫得很清楚啦但是我就我就我就看不出來說這個關聯性齁啊你不覺得這個第一類危險人就是危險啊你跟幾百人 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15700.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15727.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
一百人兩百人他還是危險啊那我想接下來沒關係我們接下來繼續講就是說最令本席不解的就是說這個辦法的第三至二條的規定事業單位勞工人數的計算他包含了原事業單位及其這個承攬人還有在承攬人之勞工及其他受工作場所負責人指 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15727.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15729.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
全體委員會或監督從事勞動之人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15735.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15758.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
這個我就很有感比如說我們一大堆我們很多的原住民我們以就是說大部分營造業為主那以營造業這個進場的工班嘛每個進場的這個時段不一樣不同的時段有不同的工班那這樣子到底實務上可不可行會不會說這個禮拜人數不足但下個禮拜承攬的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15759.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15775.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
加總之後又超標了那到底說這整個管理組織跟這個專職人員你要怎麼設置然後還有他們的做的這個管理業務執行要怎麼樣做成記錄被查因為這個人數看起來是個浮動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15776.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15800.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
報告委員您點出重點就是企業的經營它要承攬再承攬它真的是浮動的所以我目前起來就是採取平均的方式來去評估它的勞工人數是不是得當然後這個勞工人數超過一定的水限當然設置管理人員的資格跟要條件就會有點不同那我們就是因為我們這樣判決結果來看它回去它的執行紀錄就會比較清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15801.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15817.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
所以你要去抓那個平均值這樣子我覺得應該可能還有更好的方法你要不要再好好想一想不是我要指教這是你們要想的不是我替你想但我就覺得這個有點不太合理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15819.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15842.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
因為我也不是署長而且你比較厲害這個你專業好不好那這個小傑我們看一下就是說從這些規定來看似乎說這個事業單位的這個職業安全衛生管理組織跟人員好的僵固那管理執行流於書面形式那相同規模的事業單位呢不管他的這個實際成效是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15843.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15864.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
新規法規的規定,否則它就是違法。可是呢,符合規定卻不見得可以確保不發生職災。我舉例,就像這個民營公司,那它的風險可能是隨著它的訂單增加而上升。那我們的這些管理規定卻沒有考慮到這一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15865.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15894.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
所以即使你們發動專案檢查那恐怕將來其他的事業單位還是會發生職災意外我們想看一下署長不知道針對這個有什麼想法有組織有人員還是執行最重要所以說委員提醒就是這個人員在我們法系裡面他們善盡他的責任那民洋這個案子他有安全的管理員有跟公安課長做回報但是公安課長沒有做立即處置那產生這樣子一個重大事故所以民洋這個案子其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15895.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15895.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
責任責任責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15902.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15924.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
所以那個因為他把其他如果說因為這個我覺得訂單的部分吼有時候業務量突然增加很多他風險也會相對提高嘛阿結果我們專案一檢查就那個同一類型的我們就一直檢查其他的場阿可能別人的訂單都被他拿走了別家可能就降低了這個訂單過多的風險了嘛我想要提的是這個啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15925.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15951.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
還有這個辦法的第12條之二第一類勞工人數200人以上跟第二類勞工人數500人以上的僱主應依國家標準CNS45001等以上規定建置適合該事業單位的這個職業安全衛生管理系統並具以執行那為什麼到管理系統的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15952.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15966.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
就又是一刀切的切法跟剛剛前面的100人跟300人然後又變成200人跟500人這樣子的依據又到底又是什麼?也是跟署長剛剛講的一樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15968.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15993.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
包委這CS4501是新的在108年開始從ISO4501變成我們的CS4501那我們希望國家的比較一定規模上的企業要把這個管理系統內化所以我們先訂這樣法規的要求那至於這個人數跟這個基準可不可以做檢討我相信我們會再做進步的因為本期認為第一類它就是有顯著的風險不管它是100人 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15994.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16000.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
199案及90案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199案及199 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16022.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16027.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
安全文化請問安全文化的定義跟實質內容到底是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16029.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16054.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
全世界各國都在追求安全化提升過去英國、美國都有一個安全氣候的評量叫做checklist或是問卷但是我們認為這個問卷跟不同行業別來做同樣問卷是不對的所以這個確實是比較浮的、比較虛空的一個看科學的想法但是我們會從被動指標跟正面指標比如教育訓練好不好、他辦的環境夠不夠我們來做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16055.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16072.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
對他就是一個很很虛你講很虛所以我很難想的很具體哦所以什麼樣的事業單位符合你們的優質安全文化可不可以舉一些例子到底就是好的這個安全文化需要多久的時間好才可以累積 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16074.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16103.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
委員的公式安全化應該是不是就短期一半年一年就達成好就需要三五年以上才會一定upgrade那指標朋友正面指標跟被動指標比如他的教育訓練安全管理集合查核OK那被動指標就是他發生的事故數事故量有沒有做進一步的檢討那在整個整個這個體系裡面就是我們講的跟委員提醒就是我們管理系統特別要特別強大這塊PDCA的整個正面循環那如果正面循環做得好他就有證據資料document可以做佐證 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16104.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16116.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我們都希望他們是主動的安全而不是被動的安全那安全文化做得好或者是說有進步的事業單位是有什麼獎勵那沒有安全文化的事業單位又有什麼處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16118.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16136.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
報告委員,我們其實公安獎那個獎項就是會看整體的表現,如果好的話當然是比較好的激勵,我們現在國家最好的是國家慈安獎,國家慈安獎得到的話,它其實職災保險費率是可以折減的,所以這個是正面的鼓勵性質,應該是有一些可以做一些專兵force來讓企業能夠追尋。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16136.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16148.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
所以他們是可以折抵一些那講好那處罰的部分是一樣如果重大職災的話我們災防法現在規定是保險費率是發生重大職災死亡是要增增略20% |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16151.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16173.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我想這個職安署你們責任是非常重大的那職權很重要所以你們的這個預算可以說是有增無減那這個你們的單位其實真的是要人有人要錢有錢權力也不小其實跟其他單位比起來是算是比較這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16174.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16176.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
緩衝中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16202.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16225.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
下降,因為我有知道你2030年有定了目標。但是...謝謝委員的提醒,其實我們都把委員的一些建議,所有委員會的建議,我們當作我們未來能夠進步的一個推力,其實整個地牢進步確實有一些困難,會有一些挑戰,但是我也跟我們同仁一起面對這個現況,做一些更好的一些追求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16226.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16250.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
那我也希望說2030年如果你有繼續在這個位置上你才可以看到這個成果才可以負責這個成果所以你如果要定要不要每一年定不要定2030年各位媒體報告其實是2030是國家2030的階段性的進行的這個目標但是我們每兩年每一年有做每年那個希望達成那個小目標或短期目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16251.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16273.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
因為沒有看到你再跟我講好謝謝好請署長會後再跟委員做個說明接下來請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在接下來請吳秉瑞委員吳秉瑞委員吳秉瑞委員不在接下來請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在接下來請劉建國委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16282.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16284.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、邀請勞動部部長就:「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育 訓練：一、處理中華民國11案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16308.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16322.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
據報載說好像有超時工作的問題。據報載說?對,那...署長還沒有去到達?我們現在因為吼因為那個高雄市政府有兩次要去勞檢可是因為那時候負責人因為在配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16323.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16338.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
檢查檢檢的正辦中所以沒有沒有還沒有離清楚但是我們也掉那個GPS那個根據他交通部公務局的GPS他那天當日的行車時間真正的行車時間是沒有超過10小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16340.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16355.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
但是因為具體的工作不是看那個行車記錄器還要看看他這個有時候他待命時間也算工作時間準備事後加油這些都要算所以我們這個部分還要需要進一步釐清好 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16358.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16370.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
那你掌握到這個報宅嘛還有署這邊去調那個行車紀錄器嘛對不對那我這邊你也掌握一下好不好我這邊的訊息是這樣一輛車是3月20號的早上5點出啊然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16372.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16388.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
事故發生在3月20號的晚上8點阿里山一日遊所以這樣就幾個鐘頭了那當然陳努力所講的嘛到底他具體的實際開車時間多久這你再double check啦好不好但是你看喔如果依照這樣的算法已經已經執勤的時間達15個小時了嘛對不對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16392.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16404.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
我們勞進法30條規定這整天工時8小時加班不得超過4小時等同這整天的工作工時不能超過12小時交通部在2022年也修正《汽車運輸業管理規則》不用的條文明定遊覽車駕駛從報到遞員到行程結束工時不能逾11小時那違規就是最高罰9萬對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16419.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16427.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
這名司機出車到出事了到出事就是已經15個小時了那我們再來算嘛他到底是什麼時候到班 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16429.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16448.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
他如果是五點要到班對不起他五點要出發他是不是要提早半個鐘頭或一個鐘頭要到班對不對是簡單算嘛對不對好他從他家要到到班時間要不要半個鐘頭至一個鐘頭的梳洗嗎我不曉得吶含要不要吃早餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16449.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16476.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
所以他可能又要再多一個半個鐘頭到一個鐘頭簡單講最少五點要到班前還要多一個鐘到一個半鐘頭這才屬於合理嘛那我們再假設另外一個情境嘛20日當天遊覽車如果可以平安到家但是他確實八點還在路上我看進度要把客人整個全部都送完也應該要到九點了啦應該是這樣嘛然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16477.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16495.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
最理想就是要9點、9點半回到他到班的公司那10點前離開嘛11點可能回到家裡嘛洗澡上枕睡覺嘛署這邊有沒有去調查他隔天的預定他的班別是幾點要再開始執勤有去調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16497.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16526.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
報告委員因為這部分的全縣在高雄市勞檢處他們現在現在就是在做一些調查、釐清我知道發生這麼大的事情這個當然要釐清嘛對不對但是調查隔天的班表應該也不是什麼困難的事情嘛高雄市勞檢處主要是他們調查那我們南區職安中心也有在協助所以我們把這個事情做一個整個釐清當然剛就委員這樣的說明這是很有可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16526.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16529.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
三次違規事件,其中分別是 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16555.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16583.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
倒車、未注意人車、未依交通標誌指示行駛違規、臨時停車這三件違規裡面沒有半件發現他超時工作的狀況就很奇怪了再來我就覺得怎麼會這麼巧這樣就一出犯就出事我想這個疲勞的累積一定會讓事故發生的機率大大提高部長你看這個路你知道司機是開快車道還是開慢車道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16586.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16596.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
你說那一天嗎?對啊他應該是慢車道啊對啊他開慢車道嘛是不是?這條叫水管路嘛對一輛車怎麼會開慢車道是啊慢車道還有汽車 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16599.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16615.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
所以那個人是不是出問題了嗎?他要去快車道他怎麼會找到慢車道慢車道他還要跟機車在那裡站這就有問題嘛所以你知道嗎這根據家屬表示嘛就連罹患者的時候在生前都要打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16616.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16624.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
跟他們的家屬抱怨司機亂繞路所以我真的是覺得這個司機當時應該精神狀況是非常的不佳啦是不是太累嘛或是安坐嘛我們這邊齁我這邊也幫你調出一個資料就是勞動部在114年到112年對全國有1萬車業總計實施勞動條件檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16645.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16650.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
1626家次微環190件次累計罰款將近1000出萬這次出事的旅行社據瞭解只有110年檢查兩次罰款2萬這應該沒有錯誤嗎?沒有錯誤OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16662.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16674.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那你看在去年3月3日的時候我們的新聞稿有特別提到說加東運輸業違反勞基華比例偏高勞動部將聯合加東部去加強督導業者改善一年以後怎麼還會發生這樣的狀況因為勞動部已經聯合加東部來做加強監督的作為了但是這一家為什麼只有在110年檢查兩次而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16692.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16709.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
那難道部長要跟全國講說就20日發生這個事情叫做個案因為吼報告委我們那個要專案勞檢的名單吼就是由那個交通部吼他去整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16710.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16712.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
負責任何事項的負責任何事項的負責任何事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16738.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16742.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
為了持續減少職業災害發生保障作業者之安全與健康本部將持續運用有限能力以分選分級方式鎖定目標實施檢查研法必有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16767.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16792.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
多數事業單位落實職場防災管理因為你們沒辦法掌握到現在沒辦法掌握委員會對我來做一個陳述到底這一個時機是不是已經過勞了是不是已經超時到非常離譜了你們沒辦法掌握嘛所以我也沒辦法用這個角度去問你但是這個報告是你們寫的嘛什麼叫做運用有限的人力你講這樣吼為何委員會的委員都失責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16793.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16796.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我們到底是怎樣的有限能力你也跟我說一下不然我會來支持啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16823.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16847.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
不然我們是失職還是還是沒有跟你們支持不然你們到現在還有有限的能力是什麼意思我聽不懂啊你如果真的是有限能力能力不足你就盤點出來嘛那我們知道嘛我們來支持嘛對不對不要現在發生這個事情五天了還沒有掌握雖然是地方該去第一線該去先去了解清楚但是我覺得掌握到底有沒有超時 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16849.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16859.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
到底這家遊行公司是不是經常有這種狀況發生但是如果從目前來講110年就是炒了兩次反而滿口所以是交通部的問題不是你們的問題這有點奇怪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16865.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16879.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
我想部長也不只遊覽車這個事情你看剛剛很多委員都有跟你垂詢市區公車也是一樣狀況這個是2022年北市公車司機休息不夠7個夜學滑了372萬2023年新聞中市的公車遭柴滑8層公死過場這台北跟台中的比較爛 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16890.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16901.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
所以要簡單講說市區公車、遊覽車這個過勞好像已經也不是什麼新聞嘛也不是什麼新聞所以各縣市都在鬧這個司機方所以才有這個台灣市長說要對方開放外籍司機的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16906.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16915.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
我認為這尊重啦,這種想法尊重啦不過,如果像這樣經常工時過長然後休息不夠缺人導致失蹊過勞導致更缺人導致失蹊更過勞的惡狀惡性循環一直不斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16924.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16942.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
你現在開放外企的司機是叫外企的司機進來一樣跟你一樣就是要過勞然後要這樣的惡性循環然後讓外企司機也也也也負擔起這樣的一個在整個駕駛過程裡面提高他的這個危險的機率 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16944.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16948.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
這要鬧成國際笑話還是讓國際專注說我們的時機就是這麼樣的過勞然後這麼樣的超時這麼樣的一直沒辦法去改善這樣的一個環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16960.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16960.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
好,謝謝劉建國委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16988.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17011.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
接下來請何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員 何欣淳委員不在接下來請楊耀委員發言謝謝主席 主席請一下許部長請許部長時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17023.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17040.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
勞動部長我們對於職債的勞工來講最重要的其實還是怎麼輔助他能夠重新重返職場那這樣子的話他才能夠有穩定的經濟收入根據我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17042.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17062.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
我們職災保險跟保護法的規定事業單位僥僱用職災勞工可以申請補助的可是職安署提供的2023的資料呢就去年的資料我們補助的件數只有16件 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17064.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17083.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
那勞保局這邊的資料是這樣子申請職災給付的有大概9萬件那其實兩個的落差還蠻大的是因為補助的門檻過高還是誘因太低 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17084.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17110.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
因為發生職災的勞工除非有法定室友否則僱主是不能因為他發生職災就把他解僱所以很多職災的勞工他是在身體恢復到他沒有重返職場的問題他再回到原來工作崗位那有一種是可能因為他失能可能他沒有辦法短時間或一段時間沒辦法繼續工作他可能就離開那離開這個部分當然如果他日後 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17111.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17117.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
新的僱主我們會對這個僱主有獎勵所以這兩個數據可能就是會有不一樣對我知道我知道我說我說落差還蠻大的就是9萬跟16件那我這邊因為沒有沒有職安署的相關的的 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17137.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17147.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
資料所以說到底有哪一些部長剛剛講的沒有錯就是有職災不見得就是會馬上離開職場也就沒有重返的問題這個我是認同的只是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17151.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17165.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
我們到底有多少是有多少是申請可是沒有沒有沒有過的或者是或者是因為我覺得16件欸就是說植栽的的總總案件數是9萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17168.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17174.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
申請補助的只有16件這個落差已經滿大有多少是離開職場有事業單位願意來申請沒有過的這個我們再整理這個再把資料整理給我一下一樣是我們從監察院的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17198.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17215.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
來看就是勞動部提供職災勞工的職務再設計服務的量偏低那這個我這邊有的數據是這樣子齁就是這個是職安署給的數據是2023年呢補助僱主申請職災勞工職務再設計的是13人 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17228.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17253.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
那勞發署勞發署的的就是勞發署也是13人就是具有勞工身份的齁這個這個監察院給你們的的植物塞車機的服務量很偏低原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17255.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17277.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那個報告委員其實我們對職災勞工有兩個補助一個是器具的補助對我知道器具補助那個很多他大概就是就是然後現在就是那個從從這個我現在問的是植物再設計植物再設計的這個部分的確是件數很少這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17279.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17302.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
這個可能也牽涉到事業單位的主管議員他有一些比如說事業單位他也未必申請補助啊他有時候就是說他職務調整比如說像我上一次去訪視一個公司那他有一位職在勞工他本來是可能是線上的作業員可是他發生職在以後他也沒給他資錢也沒有給他那個中職顧問他就請他去做原意 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17303.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17327.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
負責其他的工作所以他這種職務調整其實也是對職災或者這些私人勞工他重返職場以後透過職務調整讓他能夠繼續工作我知道我的意思是說職務調整這個我知道我現在是針對說職務的再設計服務量能偏低的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17333.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17352.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
新的災保法新的措施是不是很多人不曉得啊不知道來申請所以我想第一個我們檢討原因那第二個就是也加強宣傳就是說讓有需要的人那不管他是像透過自然署這邊或者是從我們發展署這邊的私人的那個輔具的 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17353.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17370.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理中華民國11案及二、處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17382.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17408.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
所以這個申請的服務量能確實光看數據就13個確實是有一點低那至於原因到底在哪裡跟怎麼改進怎麼研議改善這個請部裡面跟署裡面這邊再做一下研究好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17412.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17431.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
還有就是勞動部要怎麼提升事業單位來聘僱職災勞工的意願因為我們在職災保險跟保護法裡面67到69條大概有就是勞動部有關職災勞工重返職場的補貼大概就包含剛剛部長講過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17441.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17453.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
補助設施的補助、職能復健的津貼、事業單位的雇用補助等等。而就申請的狀況來看,其實聘僱單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17455.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17482.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
就是聘僱職災勞工的意願還是不高那這個那假如說聘僱的意願不高呢災後復建完的勞工要再投入職場就會有困難那這個是不是也可以請部長在這邊發表一下你覺得怎麼如何提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17485.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17486.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
職災勞工職災勞工職災勞工職災勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17503.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17503.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
包括包括跨部會的的的 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17532.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17535.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案及 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17561.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17588.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
好,謝謝楊耀委員本次會議詢答全部結束委員徐巧心、葉元之所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定跟決議報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17589.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17597.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
好那接下來進行討論事項請宣讀討論事項處理113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部決議一第一幕勞動保險業務預算凍結100萬元專案報告案宣讀完畢有關討論事項這個勞動部主管預算凍結報告案一案那有無異議有吼那是不是先請勞動部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17616.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17632.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
好那那這樣如果呃在場的委員有異議的話那我們是不是繼續凍結好那楊耀委員謝謝主席請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17642.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17666.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
部長其實是這樣子就是金額不大那我到我其實是有一些意見想要發表到沒有覺得一定不能解到而我看你們的書面報告就是等於沒有報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17667.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17693.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
這等於沒有報告因為這幾年勞動部有關年金改革的部分大概全部都是大概就是這一份大概用了好幾年啦我也替你們講勞保本身確實是一件非常艱困的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17696.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17715.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
提高給付碼對年輕世代有點不公平提高保費對年輕族群不公平減少給付馬上就要落入貧窮線延後退休年齡大家可能也不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17716.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17742.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
這是一個很難解的問題可是問題是我看到的這幾年唯一做的就是政府撥補我為什麼對這個解凍案有意見呢就是撥補已經撥補那麼多年可是行政院院板並沒有提出來政府願意負擔最終的支付責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17744.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17770.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我對這一點其實是比較有意見的就是說我已經變成常態了而且事關一千多萬勞工的退休生活或者是在他職涯生活裡面的保費支出為什麼政府連提出修法版本表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17772.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17797.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
負擔最終的支付責任都不願意我對這一點比較想不透根據委員報告其實到目前為止我們的規劃就是政府付最後的支付責任這個立場一直沒有變對 我說入法入法就是要入法對要入法的這個規劃也沒有變當然只是說委員也知道說若我單純只提這一條好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17799.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17826.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
會可能有些委員會認為說其實你應該是要更全面性的去檢討所以就是沒有辦法目前光只有提這一條來通過修法我們是認為可能這樣還不夠周延部長我為什麼覺得先入法呢因為撥補已經撥補好幾年了幾千億撥補進去了就表示政府一定政府是不可能放任 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17827.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17851.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
勞保倒掉的啦當然那你先宣示的好處是什麼呢?就是對於廣大的勞工的心情安定有一定的作用啦我們每天都只要私底下聊天就有勞工提到勞保、勞幣的問題那假如說政府願意先出來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17852.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17879.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
做宣示就是我政府負擔最終的支付責任我覺得這個對於勞工的退休勞工的生活比較放心那年輕的勞工交保費也比較安心我覺得是這樣子啦要不然就是這一份報告我其實是覺得就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17881.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17905.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
也不能說有就跟沒有就是等於這幾年就是千篇一律啦我剛才也把困難困難先講出來因為大家都很清楚啦這是一個非常困難的事情可是我還是要求行政機關必須要提出提出擔保啦好不好好謝謝好謝謝在場那王玉明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17914.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17932.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
我請教一下部長部長你這份報告剛剛雅雯是不好意思說複製貼上這四個字就是以前講過的就繼續講就對了完全沒有任何一些新的改變我第一個問題就是說從去年立法院委員會通過這樣的一個凍結案 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17933.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17955.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
之後你們做了什麼事情?我看不出來就是說因為你今天要要求解凍嘛就是從去年委員提案之後到現在你們有做一些什麼新的調整跟改變這是第一個問題第二個問題呢在柯文哲跟蔡英文總統見面的時候他們所討論的重大議題還提到了勞保年金改革請問總統有沒有交辦你 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17957.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17978.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
年金改革是正式要啟動了還是其實對外這個就是一個公關的見面場合講一講就算了你到目前為止有沒有收到來自總統府蔡英文總統正式的指令說年金改革因為他跟柯P見面有談到這個議題所以我們要正式啟動年金改革要求你 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17979.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17996.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
進一步去研議方案就這兩個問題你回答好不好來報告委員其實從去年做成決議之後我們其實在內部其實一直有針對各個面向包括以後的撥補金額包括各個面向其實因為節省大家時間我就問你外部你開過什麼樣的會議對 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18001.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18024.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
外部就是正式的會議是沒有但是我們有就是我到各個工會去那個好來那第二個問題總統沒有交付你說你應該要繼續改革了年金改革要啟動從他們兩位蔡英文總統跟柯文哲見面現在還沒有收到指示也沒有嗎目前還沒有收到指示因為有說就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18026.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18026.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
何俊仁議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18043.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18059.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
是在等待我也不清楚好那反正那這樣訊息就很清楚了今天我們表達繼續凍結其實是主要因為你沒有你從去年提案之後到現在沒有一個具體的做法而且跟外界做任何的清楚的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18059.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18081.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
那所以繼續凍結我想有他的道理凍結不是委員的本意我們希望你們好好做事那就是今天沒有解凍我就是希望說勞動部你們可以繼續去研議而且應該提出的方案我相信這件事情不是部長的一個責任總統也有責任包括未來的總統即將接任的總統這件事情執政是要負責的也是要扛責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18081.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18082.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
責任責任責任責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18109.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18110.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
那我再補宣告一次就繼續凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18138.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18145.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
在則日在則期在審查好那本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18149.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18150.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
二、處理中華民國11年度中華民國11年度中華民國11年度 |