| IVOD_ID |
15750 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15750 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-25T08:31:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-25T13:58:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:26:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e10c940d6246953a230e87a8aaf0819ae3be8d109af184be42a87c13dee24a1f95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版」預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【3月25日及27日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:49 - 13:58:00 |
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| transcript.pyannote[3880].start |
19485.13784375 |
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19487.73659375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3881].speaker |
SPEAKER_34 |
| transcript.pyannote[3881].start |
19488.31034375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3881].end |
19492.61346875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3882].speaker |
SPEAKER_34 |
| transcript.pyannote[3882].start |
19492.93409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3882].end |
19499.41409375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3883].speaker |
SPEAKER_22 |
| transcript.pyannote[3883].start |
19499.41409375 |
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19502.97471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3884].speaker |
SPEAKER_22 |
| transcript.pyannote[3884].start |
19503.68346875 |
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19506.07971875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3885].speaker |
SPEAKER_22 |
| transcript.pyannote[3885].start |
19507.59846875 |
| transcript.pyannote[3885].end |
19510.07909375 |
| transcript.pyannote[3886].speaker |
SPEAKER_22 |
| transcript.pyannote[3886].start |
19510.31534375 |
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19543.47471875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1743.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1745.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
現在開始開會,請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1754.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1774.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議事務時間中華民國113年3月18日星期一9時至12時47分中華民國113年3月20日星期三9時至12時44分地點秦軒樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福等14人列席委員洪孟凱等15人列席官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1776.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1792.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
113年3月18日星期一金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧、中央銀行副總裁顏忠大等、113年3月20日星期三財政部部長莊翠雲等、主席郭昭吉國文、113年3月18日報告事項依依宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1794.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1811.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
二、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧．台灣證券交易所股份有限公司林董事長休明及財團法人中華民國證券櫃台買賣中心陳董事長永成、中央銀行分別就從ETF熱賣看政府如何健全投資管道引導民間遊資並以熱錢過度投入方式進行專題報告．並備質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1816.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1841.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
軍軍金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、中央銀行副總裁嚴中大等分別提出報告後據由委員林德福等18人提出諮詢軍軍金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧、中央銀行副總裁嚴中大等予以答覆決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員諮詢會及答覆或請補充資訊請金融監督管理委員會及中央銀行於一周內以書面答覆委員密約要求其見者從其鎖定。113年3月10日 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1843.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1864.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
報告事項處理113年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結輸入報告案36案一財政部決議第一項凍結第二幕財政人員訓練向下人學員訓練預算十分之一二國庫署決議第一項凍結第二幕國庫業務向下國庫及支付管理預算十分之一三國庫署決議第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1865.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1880.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
動綱第二幕、國庫業務向下、災禍管理作業預算20分之一國庫署決議第三項、動綱第二幕、國庫業務向下、供股管理作業預算10分之一國庫署決議第四項、動綱第二幕、國庫業務向下、菸酒管理作業預算10分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1881.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1906.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
6.國庫署決議第5項凍結第二幕國庫業業項下煙酒管理作業之獎補助費預算十分之一7.國庫署決議第6項凍結第二幕國庫業業項下國庫諮詢作業預算十分之一8.國庫署決議第7項凍結第二幕國庫業業項下撕裂煙品查緝作業預算十分之一9.複稅署決議第1項凍結第一幕一般行政項下人員維持中人事費之獎金預算320萬元10. |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1910.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1938.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
復稅署決議第4項凍結第二幕復稅業務向下租稅、教育與宣傳及健全、復計經費之業務費預算10萬元復稅署決議第4項凍結第二幕復稅業務向下稅務集合及積增業務經費預算十分之一台北國稅局決議第一項凍結第一幕一般行政向下人員維持中人事費之獎金預算200萬元公雄國稅局決議第一項凍結第一幕一般行政向下人員維持中人事費之獎金預算100萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1940.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1963.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
北區國稅局及所屬決議第一項凍結第一幕一般行政向下,人員維持中人事費之獎金預算200萬元。第15案北區國稅局及所屬決議第二項凍結第一幕一般行政向下,基本行政工作維持預算100萬元。第16案中區國稅局及所屬決議第一項凍結第一幕一般行政向下,人員維持中人事費之獎金預算200萬元。第17案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1965.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1990.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
南區國稅局及所屬決議第一項凍結第一幕一般行政項下人人維持中人事費之獎金預算一百萬元〔18 案〕南區國稅局及所屬決議第二項凍結第二幕國稅基增業務預算一百萬元〔19 案〕關務署及所屬決議第一項凍結第二幕關稅業務項下查緝業務之海關巡棄艇太救換新第二期計劃預算十分之一〔20 案〕 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1991.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1996.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
公務署及所屬決議第二項、凍結第二幕、關稅業務項下、財經業務之台北港、 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1998.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2021.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
於檢站軌道式貨櫃檢查儀建置計劃預算十分之一。二十一案．公務署及所屬決議第三項．凍結第二幕關稅業務項下查緝業務之臺中關第二貨櫃中心．檢站軌道式貨櫃檢查儀建置計劃預算十分之一。二十二案．公務署及所屬決議第四項．凍結第二幕關稅業務項下建構高效快遞貨物通關雲端平台預算十分之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2023.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2044.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
公務署及所屬決議第5項,凍結第二幕關稅業務向下,強化跨機關資料傳輸韌性,預算十分之一。公務署及所屬決議第14項,凍結第二幕關稅業務向下,查緝業務之第六貨櫃中心軌道式貨櫃檢查及移檢站建置計劃,預算一百萬元。國有財政署及所屬決議第4項,凍結第二幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2046.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2073.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
國有財產業務向下國有財產電腦化業務預算1.26案財政資訊中心決議第一項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務預算500萬元27案財政資訊中心決議第二項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下綜合規劃管理之次世代稅務服務雲端平台建構計劃預算1.28案財政資訊中心決議第三項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下國稅和科技統計事要集中處理經濟資、負稅資訊作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2075.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2089.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
辦理國稅各項例行性及增業務預算十分之一二十九案財政諮詢中心結業第四項凍結第二幕財政諮詢業務向下國稅合格系統及資料集中處理經費支網路報稅手機門號認證服務預算十分之一三十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2090.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2102.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
財政資訊中心決議第5項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務項下國稅合客系統及資料集中處理經費之國稅各項網路申報服務預算十分之一財政資訊中心決議第6項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務項下國稅合客系統及資料集中處理經費之稅務及戶政大數據資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2110.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2117.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
加值運用計劃預算1.32財政資訊中心決議第7項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下國稅合客系統及資料集中處理經費之國稅資訊系統永續發展計劃預算1.33財政資訊中心決議第8項凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下地方稅與偵客 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2129.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2136.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
系統及資料集中處理﹑預算1.4版財政資訊中心決議第9項﹑凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下支通資源管理﹑預算1.3版財政資訊中心決議第10項﹑凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下財政資訊資料管理﹑預算1.3版財政資訊中心決議第11項﹑凍結第二幕財政資訊業務向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2150.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2176.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
電子發票管理經費預算十分之一決定上列36案均已報告完成準以動之提報院會討論事項懲罰中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結報告案9案一財政部決議第二項凍結第三幕促參業務向下促進民間參與公共建設業務預算十分之一二複稅組決議第二項凍結第二幕複稅業務向下革新稅制改善稅政經費預算40萬元三 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2177.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2178.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
łec 3. |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2178.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2185.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
複稅署決議第3項凍結第2幕,複稅業務向下,革新稅制改善稅政經費之業務費,預算20分之1。łec 4. |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2185.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2191.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
複稅署決議第5項凍結第5幕,地方政府稅款短掃補助,預算20分之1。łec 5. |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2191.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2195.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
複稅署決議第3項凍結第2幕,複稅業務向下,革新稅政改善稅政經費之業務費,預算20分之1。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2195.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2215.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
革新稅制改善稅政經驗預算要10分之1。6國有財產署及所屬決議第一項凍結第二幕國有財產業務預算10分之1。7國有財產署及所屬決議第二項凍結第二幕國有財產業務向下國有財產管理處分之國有非公安不動產環境清理維護及登革熱高風險場域巡查管理計畫預算10分之1。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2218.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2234.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
國有財產署及所屬決議第三項,凍結第二幕國有財產業務向下,國有財產改良利用預算十分之一。國有財產署及所屬決議第五項,凍結第三幕一般建築及設備第一屆營建工程向下,構建辦公大樓預算十分之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2235.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2260.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
經財政部部長莊卓寅提出報告後﹖繼而委員林德甫等18人提出質詢﹖均經財政部部長莊卓寅等予以說明及答覆﹖決議一報告及說明及詢討完畢﹖二委員執行會及答覆或請補充資訊﹖請財政部一周內以書面答覆﹖委員力要求期限者從其鎖定﹖三中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議﹖有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案均已審查完畢﹖遵以動之提報宴會﹖通過臨時提案兩案﹖宣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2262.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2285.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
請問議事錄有無異議?沒有異議?好,議事錄確定。請議事人員宣讀今日議程。邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、內政部、數位發展部就:「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領1.5版．預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告．並備執行。」宣讀完畢。介紹吳秉瑞吳委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2291.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2313.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
林德福林委員、行政院主計總處主計長朱澤民、金融監督管理委員會主任委員黃天牧、銀行局局長莊秀元、政企局局長張振山、保險局局長施瓊華、檢察局局長張子昊、 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2320.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2348.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
國家通訊傳播委員會副主任委員翁柏中、基礎設施處處長陳春木、法務部常務次長黃謀信、內政部警政署副署長李希和、新市警察局副局長黃仁聰、 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2353.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2376.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
數位發展部政務次長李懷仁數位產業署副署長林俊秀先來請金管會主委黃天牧、黃主委提出專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2387.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2398.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
委員各位委員先進大家好今天大院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議曾邀就打擊詐欺辦理情形進行專題報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2403.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2428.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
金管會是主詐面的統籌機關,基於金融監理督導、金融機構配合行政院及相關部會打擊詐欺犯罪的策略,從零櫃面、網路或行動銀行、預警機制等各面向攔阻不法金流,公司協力共同提升主詐的效能,並積極協助防止詐騙的宣導工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2430.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2455.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
以下僅就三個面向說包括金融機構自己、跨機構及跨部會在推動金融機構防詐措施方面要強化鄰會關懷以今年來說到1月攔截件數有1021件攔阻金額有6.3億元較去年同期都有增加百分之百以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2457.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2482.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
另外在第三頁強化網路銀行約定轉帳風險的控管讓我們網路交易如果採行一次性的動態密碼OTP驗證機制來防止帳戶狂降遭倒轉另外各銀行在各約定轉帳的這個申請上也適度的延後時間從一天生效到兩天生效 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2484.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2506.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
另外在強化電資帳戶的管理上增加驗證使用者原來開立存款帳戶或信用卡源流手機號碼的機制也使相關警示帳戶支付的案件有下降了約九成在信用卡防詐機制方面包括調降信用卡網路交易的及時通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2507.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2522.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
從五千到一三千,還有強化一次性密碼的驗證簡訊的內容,強化行動裝置,感應支付,防範盜刷機制。在信用卡遭盜刷客戶的保護機制方面, |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2523.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2545.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第5頁,持卡人如果是信用卡遭盜刷﹐可依信用卡定型化契約內容向發卡機構提出爭議賬款的申請﹐並為發卡機構將該筆一億款項列入爭議款項﹐如今查證持卡人確實是遭盜刷而無可歸則於持卡人的事實﹐可以無需負擔相關的損失。另外我們也關懷高齡客戶、齡貴的關懷﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2550.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2578.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第二個在跨機構共同防制詐欺方面第一點我們要強化聯防機制的第6頁現行聯防機制賬戶控管圈存時間的延長有助於檢警調查民眾報案及強化攬主受詐騙的款項會名單通報的平台在第一季上線至於說在跨部會及公司部門合作防詐部分包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2579.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2601.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我們跟警政署合作,我們建置了金融資料第二頁及聯防通報電子化的平台。在第7月,我們跟警政署也建立了境外跟境內的金融帳戶的預警機制。我們也跟數位部合作,強化銀行對第三方致富業者使用虛擬帳號服務的控管。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2606.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2633.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第8頁,我們也督導金融機構對受警察機關告誡處分者依照《西方法》15條之二第6項的相關執法規定,限制金融賬戶交易的功能。到今年3月17日後,告誡人數達17,942人。另外,我們也主動搜報違規貨詐欺廣告,協助刑事局及時處理,共同精進防詐措施。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2635.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2649.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在第9月我們在頭信頭顧法第70條之一113條之一明文禁止非法有價證券投資廣告太陽並規範英才實名制在第10月 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2650.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2675.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們在加強各類的金融知識普及工作計劃提升民眾的防詐意識．包括辦理全國的防詐宣導、走入校園、拍攝微電影．以及在金管會的網站上設置金融防詐專區．在第12頁配合刑事局長化詐騙宣導．以及辦理各項反詐騙的宣導活動等等． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2679.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2698.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
14月未來推動重點1.強化信用卡網絡交易安全性。OTP驗證的簡訊消費金額必別代碼會與諸人顯示。2.再次向民眾宣導OTP的重要性。3.強化發卡機構信用卡交易監控機制。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2700.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2724.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
最近大家有些檢調單位反映對於企業戶的偉貌開戶很關心所以我們也會強化企業戶開立帳戶的審查機制另外還有加強國際防詐的交流跟啟動防詐金融犯罪金融科技主題式的推廣活動以及鼓勵金融機構運用科技防詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2726.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2732.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
在加強防堵網路有價證券投資假廣告的規劃的部分我們會滾動檢討證券周邊單位主動收報的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2736.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2764.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們也與Google跟Meta極大強勾通．強化他們內部的審查．以及繼續強化反詐的宣導教育．打詐是政府的重要政策．本會將持續提出精進作為．除了督促金融機構協助執法單位防制金融犯罪之外．我們也會加強跟跨部會的合作．來根據策定防制金融犯罪相關作為．以上報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2767.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2773.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝黃主委接著請國家通訊傳播委員會翁副主委報告請間斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2782.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2800.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
主席、各位委員、大家好。今日應邀到會員會來進行專題報告以下僅就同傳會對打詐業務中補助建制國際偉貿來化的攔阻跟語音警示的預算執行情形及成效進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2802.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2829.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
以下的緊究事項的內容來報告一、燃油跟經費因為先前在165打造中心通報的名單裡面燃煮特定的國際偽貿來化因為系統的容量問題對於日益增多的持續改變化物的態量來規避燃煮必要採取更進一步的措施來預防民眾接到這樣的電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2830.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2841.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
通常會跟電信事業研究國外來話的號碼8860-8都為詐騙電話應加以攔阻另外對於國外來話號碼加8869且非漫遊者都為詐騙化物應加以攔阻應該從源頭來截斷詐騙集團前接詐騙化物的資訊流減少民眾收到詐騙電話的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2859.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2885.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
提升電信端藍組國際帷幔來化之效能．所以本會申請電信事業建制來化號碼比對藍組名單設備的補助。因應詐騙手法不斷的翻新．為增加民眾防詐的意識．我們也對於民眾接收到加886開頭的國際來化．本會要求電信業者在接通前． |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2886.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2904.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
先以語音來警示民眾對於來話為加886開頭的國際來話藉此提高民眾的警覺降低受詐的風險所以本會也申請電信事業建置IVR系統的語音警示系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2905.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2911.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
前階電信事業建置來化藍組設備與已運警示,以實現藍組國際帷幔來化及警示的國際帷幔來化。第二點,辦理情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2922.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2943.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
蘭祖的部分中華電信、臺固跟新世紀之都在112年5月陸續完成蘭祖的設備的建置另外,中華電信、臺科大、演傳在112年9月陸續完成假漫遊國際來話的蘭祖設備的建置也上線服務在固網的警示方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2943.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2962.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
在112年7月起各顧網的電信4月接聽加8869的國際來話就會有語音警示的功能在112年9月4話接聽所有的國際來話提供語音警示服務在行網的警示方面在112年10月行網電話接到國際來話都會有警示的服務3.補助的辦理成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2969.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2986.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
自112年5月起隨著國際來化的攔阻跟警示的機制逐步的建置完成國際來化的化物由最高112年5月的5080萬通下降到113年2月份的776萬通下降的幅度達84.72其中加886開拓的國際來化化物由112年5月份1642萬通降至 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2999.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3012.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
113年2月份的46萬通降幅高達97.19顯示前述的措施已經發揮成效詐騙集團已經大幅減少利用偽冒國際來花來進行詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3018.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3027 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
結議通常會會結合內政部、金管會、法務部及數位部共同組成聯合防線落實減少接觸、減少誤信及減少損壞的三檢策略。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3031.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3059.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
通常會透過這樣的補助電信業的建置攔阻跟警示機制已經初步達成堵炸的成效將會接同相關部會持續的滾動檢討精心各項措施以上報告敬請各位支持指導謝謝好謝謝翁副主委接著請數位發展部政務次長李懷仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3071.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3084.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席、各位委員先生今天很榮幸應邀到委員會這邊來針對新世代打擊詐欺防詐綱領1.5的預算執行跟成效進行專題報告跟質詢那請各位委員不吝指教那數位發展部在打詐綱領1.5版裡面負責的工作大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3087.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3106.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
主要分為加強電商的資安維護還有防制第三方支付線上遊戲詐騙以及規劃從政府及主管產業的部分共同強化數位信任的服務利用數位工具提升主詐跟賭詐的能量那以下我們就針對數位部這個相關政策跟執行的部分進行專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3108.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3125.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第一個部分我們先說明強化電商治安跟各自保護的部分推動的做法我們大概就是協助電商做治安的輔導跟評級的工作從111年到今年的2月底我們累計已經協助了88家工協會的電商進行治安評級跟紅隊的演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3126.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3143.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
由資安業者模擬進攻業者的服務平台驗證他的資安解決方案的有效性同時我們也推動電商業者導入銀碼技術也就是說消費者在收受包裹的時候包裹上面已經不再顯現消費者明顯個資那這樣物流就不會認出消費者的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3144.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3167.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那這個部分我們也已經有5家左右的主流電商已經引入那還有其他幾家電商正在驗證的服務當中那另外我們針對各自外洩案件我們也積極的在辦那包括內政部警政署165通報的部分我們大概有57案那已經52案已經結案52家那其中包含財儲的部分還有部分還在觀察期 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3168.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3189.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
此外,我們也會積極地辦理行政檢查的作業。從111年8月到現在,我們目前已經針對24家業者辦理28家次的行政檢查。這個部分我們的成效,按照警政署通報民眾解除分期付款的詐騙案件,從112年7月起數位部接獲的所謂的電商業者已經逐步下降。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3190.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3214.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那112年10月起那數位部所轄的大型電商平台已經都沒有被列為所謂的165防詐公告的高風險賣場那接下來我們再說明第三方支付的管理措施那在法遵命我們要求第三方支付要配合說防治洗錢的辦法那目前到月底為止我們已經辦理了25家的洗房的查核作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3215.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3237.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那在業務經營面,這個就是陳如剛剛跟金管會黃主委所提到的部分,我們跟金管會一起合作,也就是說在他們沒有在第三方制度服務業沒有進行能量登錄的制度的情況下,那他們就沒有辦法從銀行那邊獲得虛擬帳號的服務。那基本上沒有辦法獲得銀行虛擬帳號的服務的情況,那他就會大量的減少外界所詬病的這個利用虛擬帳號詐騙的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3238.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3262.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那在行政協助面的部分我們會透過第三方支付只要你登錄了那我們當然就經過查核以後我們就可以讓他藉兼內政部的負責任系統及臺灣基保的實質受益人資料庫協助同時我們還協助開發第三方支付虛擬賬戶的查詢跟聯防平台提供業者完成法尊的作業那同時也能讓監警調跟業者在第一時間得知透過圈存來讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3264.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3293.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
民眾被罩的款項可以減少損失那未來我們還會跟財政部、基保中心、銀行公會還有第三方支付服務業強化業務的聯繫那目前根據我們的調查國內第三方支付的服務業大概不到100家那截至3月1日我們已經受理81家的登錄那目前已經有40家通過25家還在補件9家不通過那我們會持續去要求只要有任何跟第三方支付有關的業者都要來登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3293.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3317.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數遊戲點數 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3317.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3342.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
業者要祝福客戶人力還有主動關心的措施等等同時我們也會定期的召集重點業者開例行會檢視主帳的成效那同時業者也配合我們提出遊戲延遲入點還有搭配遊戲點數防詐鎖卡平台等等的服務保障消費者的權益那重點成效的部分我們從112年單月最高的1600件下降到今年2月大概只有80件這個是成效的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3342.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3358.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
第四個部分跟大家說明的是111的政府簡訊短碼平台那111政府簡訊短碼平台這個部分我們大概已經宣傳了透過各機關的合作一起在宣傳那目前各政府機關都可以透過共同供應財 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3359.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3371.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
7月自行下單採購一一簡訊那基本上就簡化政府機關採購簡訊的行政流程那重點成效的部分到上個月月底我們大概有65個機關單位已經來開始採購這個一一的短髮簡訊那目前已經發送了546萬則簡訊那目前採購的部分是74萬個單位那已經採購的量是1900萬則左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3385.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3407.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
第5個部分我們在報告的是TWNIC對所謂的詐騙網頁提資解析的作為。那TWNIC是協助所謂的網際網路接取服務提供者就是IASP那有一個所謂的DNS RPD自律機制限制接取惡意或不當網域名稱那這個只要透過法律明確的授權透過法院的判定裁定或行政機關的處分我們就會啟動那到 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3408.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3418.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
根據去年的數字我們是大幅的去停止接取的網域我們累計大概3萬4千5百多件是前一年的10倍以上那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3420.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3447.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
結局的部分我們就是跟大家說明說打擊詐欺是我們最重要的任務那數位部當然完全配合各部會的工作那我們也會組成聯防陣線針對各種詐欺的手段及樣態持續滾動檢討跟進行各項措施那我們也希望透過各種政策工具跟各機關之間彼此合作然後透過公司協力降低詐騙案件的產生我們除了在主管產業上竭盡全能盤整詐騙樣態找出痛點補強跟預防措施以外也會協助民眾產業跟各部會跟監禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3448.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3471.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
導入數位科技的工具以及資訊安全的技術運用聯合各方防堵詐騙集團以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝李懷仁、李政務次長開始詢答每位委員8加2列席委員5加1今日上午10點截止發言登記請第一位林德福林委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3483.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3487.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
謝謝,謝謝主席。是不是請主計長。請朱主計長。主計長,我請教齁,因為經濟部長王美花說因為漲電價就調漲物價是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3505.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3514.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是沒有道理的所以他喊話說國內業者不應以漲電價為由來調漲物價那請問你認為這樣的喊話有約束力嗎你認為這個是物價的漲我們原則上尊重市場制度他講的應該是一個說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3528.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3537.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
臺電拿北部連鎖這些烘焙房來當案例對外聲稱每個月用電700度以下大約每日開銷增加兩元結果後來又改口說如果具有烘焙設備用電較高的麵包店試算每個月增加將近一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3560.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3569.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
請問主計長政府的政策說明是不是根本把老百姓當傻瓜不斷在玩數字遊戲企圖來粉飾太平 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3572.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3588.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是不是來試圖粉飾太平嗎?跟那個委員報告一下事實上經濟部的一個方案他是規劃的很詳細他小商店的話他是700度以內的調整3%那個700度到1500度的就超額部分調整5%所以對真正的一些小店鋪 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3598.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3626.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我一直認為說政府是不是無知不知啊民間奇古不會啦他這樣的無知啦所以因為他知道說有些小店鋪他的生意生意說沒有那麼大所以他就是那些比較小的店鋪他的一個是什麼調乎比較低那個是用電3000度以上的超過的那一個部分他就調整10%所以就有考慮那個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3627.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3644.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
臺電昨天發布新聞稿表示臺電扮演穩住物價的角色如果不是前兩年來當消波塊吸收成本抵擋全球燃料價格的飆漲引發的通膨這些巨浪 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3646.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3675.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
國內整個通膨的情形啊情勢會更加的嚴峻那我請問主計長對於台電是這個抵擋通膨巨量的消波塊的說法你認為民眾能夠完全接受嗎的確的跟國外比較起來有些國家他的電費都調整百分之八十的都有也有調整百分之三、四十以上的都有的那我們在前些時候沒有一個調整啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3675.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3700.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
但是他們台電的那個成本增加像那個燃煤的增加增加你全部都是用稅計剩餘啊甚至於我們這個每年超徵的然後來補貼他這個還是全民的增加的那個金額比稅計剩餘去挹注他多很多稅計剩餘你就是用超徵的去補助啊對不對一共補助多少你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3701.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3704.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
市長你也很清楚啦電價審議委員會幾乎每一次都是反正我就是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3728.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3755.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
為什麼?因為有釋放選舉選舉考量現在跟選舉距離比較長那個跟委員報告因為那一段期間因為國際的情勢那我們的那一個是什麼物價也有一個波動尤其那個煤啦、電、煤啦各種大量物資增加所以用那一個所謂的經濟部才說有削波底暫時讓它是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3758.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3782.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
主計長因為台電阿他就是要把這個等於是說前一段時間沒有漲價所以說才不會造成整個通膨這個抗通膨的功勞全部攬在他一身企圖來合理化漲電價這次要漲說實在本席是無法認同因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3784.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3784.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
今天我們報告一下因為的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3809.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3835.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
他現在如果沒有講的話臺電還是每年之大一收長此下跡他的那個你就是人員政策的錯誤啊大家很清楚啊對不對你把所有的這個核電全部都最經濟最乾淨的電全部把它處理掉然後你用離岸風電用光電然後用一些這個可能耗 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3835.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3855.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3855.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3865.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那個用核能後端的處理成本將會很高,而委員您講說那個好像……後端處理很高,現在全世界都把能源、核電變成綠能,對不對,只有你在這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3872.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3892.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
對不對其實齁主計長全球齁主要你像我在講央行都在暗示未來幾個月可能會降息齁全球的央行都在降息結果我們央行上個禮拜四啊決議提起升息半碼齁把基準利率調整至2008年以來啊最高的水準齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3894.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3917.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
當然楊總裁表示說這個決定是為了抑制國內通盤疫情的心理主計長你也是李監事成員之一如果是監事報告委員那我請問你認同楊總裁表示決定升席是為了抑制國內通盤的疫情心理的理由嗎你認為呢我尊重尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3919.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3939.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
總裁的意見不過我跟委員報告一下我是監事會主席央行的監事根據央行的一個法令規定那我請問那我來規定監事只能管財務不適合管政策問題是你要了解啊那你要提出一些看法為什麼會出現通膨一級的心理這個到底是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3942.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3962.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
有這種預期的心理是民眾嗎?還是企業?還是政府這種心態的狀況光是升息就能完全來抑制嗎?我跟那個委員報告一下所謂的預期心理一般是指施經濟部門施經濟部門施經濟部門就是領獎的民眾跟那個企業對啊阿主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3970.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3993.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
央行總裁表示央行預測今年消費者物價指數CPI年增率是2.16%是以平均電價10%的漲幅來估算若未來電價調升幅度更大的確不排除CPI增幅會再擴大主計長你先前你就說電價漲一層至少會直接影響CPI0.12% |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3996.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4023.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
也就是CPI考量電價下則年增率大概接近百分之二那請問為什麼央行會出現預測今年CPI那個我跟各位報告一下我講說0.12嘛那個0.12是只有那個需求面但是他供給面廠商的成本因為我們在做估計的時候不曉得他的那個條幅是多少所以我們那個項沒有估在裡面因為報告裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4025.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4048.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
央行的預測跟你們的預測齣齣差了0.2%是不是已經把廠商的轉嫁至消費者兼影響的部分都算在內?央行已經把成本面在裡面當初我只講需求面沒有講成本面現在他的方案是確定了以後我們的估計大概是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4049.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4051.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
因為喔,電價一漲,百物皆漲,而且齁,你再加上這個利率的調升在半馬,其實齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4069.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4090.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
等於是一隻牛撥很多層皮啦 齁 主計長通盤預期的變動影響實質、經濟生活以及物價的穩定所以對通盤預期心理的管理是貨幣政策需要考量一大的重點那請問要讓正式升息利率調升所持的理論依據是不是完全依照泰勒的法則是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4091.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4113.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
跟那個委員報告一下事實上央行的一個調整後來在隔天行政院就有開會對某些那些情況他是不調的像那個所謂的既有的那個貸款或者是那個既有的那些或者是有關於那些社會福利機構學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4114.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4115.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4133.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4154.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
等等啦,幾乎啦,全面漲。今天委員報告一下,瓜惠的調整是從去年就開始,所以瓜惠的調整啦,它對物價的衝擊啊,不是想像中的那麼嚴重。沒有那麼嚴重喔,但是民眾感受很深啊。去年就開始,因為對生病的人也許會感到嚴重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4156.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4173.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
但是對整體的物價因為去年就開始漲所以物價指數是有限的當然對公安是可能會影響很多而且有些那個是他也不有些醫院因為公安會是可以收可以不收有醫院來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4175.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4197.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那個主計長主要就是萬物皆長那唯獨只有薪水不漲老百姓痛苦指數越飆越高講實在話你過去你就是掩飾太平嘛你剛剛講的消波塊這種操作方式其實我們是希望說這個你 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4200.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4217.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
新資、薪水的所得要跟你CPI就是物價上漲要成正比啊不然老百姓我沒有賺那麼多錢但是買的東西越來越少因為你萬物皆漲啊對不對當然他們痛苦指數就越飆越高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4218.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4218.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
吳秉瑞 吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4260.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4265.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
主席麻煩請法務部黃次長跟書發部李次長請法務部黃次長與書發部李懷仁與政府次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4278.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4302.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
兩位好從今年以來人工智慧AI就是非常的紅的一個問題那其實這個不是只有現在才出現之前就出現deepfake深度的這個造假這樣子的狀況出現因為甚至在網路上面的影片喔如果沒有跟你講說這個是造假你根本就看不出來這個是假的完全就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4304.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4312.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以現在想要請問說先請問法務部的次長這個AI生成的作品他有沒有著作權?這個法律問題所以部分我目前還沒有一個確定答案可能要因為它是個新的法律問題可能要等到實務見解形成一定的固定見解之後才能回答委員的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4330.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4340.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
另外一個就是說我剛剛講的AI現在產生的這個影片就跟真的拍的影片幾乎是一模一樣這些將來能不能當作在訴訟上的法律證據 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4343.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4368.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
各位報告他現在我們相關的只要是證據他有證據能力在送法案都是可以當證據能力都是有證據能力的我的意思是說法院因為我以前也是從法院來的法院在看這些影片說以前是影片為證像現在的大部分的警察機關在辦案子的時候很多都是從這個監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4372.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4400.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
來破案監視器也是影片那這個AI將來的這個生成的這個影片幾乎就跟拍的一樣的時候那請問主委去分辨各位報告如果說他是透過AI偽造變造當然在法律上他就沒有證據能力啦那如果他不是偽造變造的我的意思是說如果檢視他是不是偽造變造如果是偽造變造我們明明知道他是偽造變造那當然沒問題啊問題是他拿出來的影片是 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4401.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4407.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以現在我們法務部所屬的電話局他就有相關的見識上的能力跟購買相關的見識上的器材在技術上我們電話局已經對外宣稱很多次了他是有能力去見識出是不是AI偽造的相關的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4425.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4443.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那因為現在有能力但是AA的技術一直在提升欸大數據一直非常速度非常快的在進化可能三個月前跟三個月後拍的影片已經完全不一樣了我完全贊同委員所說的所以你現在有能力不代表將來有能力喔那法務部那個調查局今天有人來嗎有請調查局何處長是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4452.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4478.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你現在有能力有代表將來有繼續有這方面的能力嗎?跟委員報告那個我們是確實有採購AI的那個偵測軟體但是目前他是受限還是有受限限制他偵測成功率大概只有八成而已是啊那所以我就舉一個例子將來在法院的鑑識我如果主張說這個影片是偽造的你如果鑑別他是不是偽造 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4479.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4505.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
技術會越來越進步AI的技術也會越來越進步因為這人工智慧它就會一直累積嘛累積到後面比人還開我記得我年輕的時候那個那時候在說在下棋啊一開始電腦是下不贏人的到後來最厲害全世界第一名都下不贏電腦那這個只是人工智慧一開始的出我今天早上看到一個影片出目驚心欸他就拍一個街景跟街景一模一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4510.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4536.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
最後跟你講答案這個是AI照做的跟街景無關但是他做出來就是某一個路口連紅綠燈光影變化下雨的時候那個燈光反射全部都一模一樣跟實景一模一樣我現在要跟你請教這個就是要請教你跟理事長這個AI的生產越來越厲害那將來在防詐方面你們有沒有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4539.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4560.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟委員報告,剛剛委員提到那個鑑識的問題現在說AI技術更加發達,罪犯也要發達未來在法庭上法院他也委託更有專業的相關AI技術人去做鑑識了這第一點第二點就是說有關於這個本部就這個AI方面的努力法制面上我們去年在刑法或者是我們相關的這個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4565.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4566.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4581.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4586.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
市長我只是先提醒你們要注意這個事情我舉例子現在大家的手機都那麼方便嘛那手機將來的AI已經可以弄到跟本人一模一樣的人在跟你講話如果一個老人家接到他的孫子 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4605.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4607.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他如果去判斷他如果去分辨 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4624.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4645.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
今天的報告裡面也有單位講說我們每一個人要加強這個人工智慧對於資訊這個判斷的能力我覺得這次方案是對的但是問題是現在技術的進步實在是速度太快那每一個人的能力跟一個國家跟一個組織他的能力當然是不一樣的次長、理事長你有什麼樣的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4646.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4671.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
從技術面來看目前各國包含美國或歐盟的這個人工基本法或人工法規開始都對AI生成的部分要要求要準備往強制加上生成標籤的方向來製作也就是說未來如果各國的法規如果通過包括台灣可能人工基本法這邊也會有這樣的考慮就是說如果未來人工生成的人工智慧生成的內容必須要加上標籤注意辨識包括來源包括製作的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4671.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4690.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
另外在打詐專法的部分數位部參與的部分我們也在討論是不是把我們也在推動這個方向就是把這個人工生成智慧的內容用在網路網告上面必須要強制揭露這件事情那如果我有注意到的話YouTube最近已經有開始這個新的政策就是YouTube上面的影片如果使用人工智慧生成必須強制揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4691.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4716.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那他如果沒有強制揭露或是強制揭露到時候會不會又有人講說你這個是不是又違反了什麼言論自由什麼的這方面的講法台灣很容易就發生這樣的講法對 揭露只是說你必須告訴大家你這個是用什麼製作讓大家判斷說這個的來源是什麼是不是真人或者是他成功製作讓大家足以加強判斷這件事情並沒有去強制要求說你的內容不可以怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4717.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4717.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
請盡管會有黃主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4747.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4762.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員長主委我要跟您再次提醒到我們辦公室的統計到3月22日禮拜五上個禮拜五下班的時候00940所謂的自救會在Meta上面的自救會他的自救會成員達到22萬2000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4765.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4789.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
二十二萬兩千人但是00940那事實上根本就還沒有建倉完成嘛他根本就還沒有開始交易就有二十二萬兩千人的自救會成員那你有沒有想要去了解說這裡面到底在幹嘛一個還沒有上市的市場然後就還沒有上市的產品自救會就已經二十二萬多人了是不是準備要鬧事啊你會不會覺得他有這樣的可能性呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4791.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4805.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
謝謝委員提醒這個資訊,您長期對這個事情的關心。我想我們對於這個,不論ETF的發行或是投資者的權益都非常重視。那您關心的,這就會我們要了解一下它的訴求是什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4807.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4829.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
對啊我是覺得你光是只有了解夠嗎?因為現在資訊的時代他要號召人很容易然後他利用資訊的落差比如參加這個社團的人他到時候講了什麼你來不及因為人數這麼多你記不記得過去曾經有一個負油價事件原來是有這樣的人對啊導致了非常多的人在金管會的門口 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4831.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4854.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那個自救會的成員在那邊抗議很久,你要記得這個前車之鑒。當然那個不是你們的錯,但是問題是,他就是要怪到你身上來。常常就是這樣子,這個東西他事實上是一個投資產品,那應該要去了解他的投資的完整的資訊,有賺有賠。那很不可思議的是,他時間上面這個東西都還沒上市。 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4857.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4869.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
他現在事實上是要上市之前要先建倉建倉完成之後才發行那時候才會有投資才會有賺有賠嗎現在連這個都還沒有完成自救會就已經在開始在搞了而且人數這麼多22萬2000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4872.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4872.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
社會諮詢請賴世保、賴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4911.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4914.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝主席及各位先進先有請朱主計長請朱主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4922.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4950.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我覺得很簡單的問題請教請你簡短回答現在店價要漲有些單位受不了了比如說台大都講話了學校有沒有可能主計總處這裡給他補貼然後呢以及這個醫院有沒有可能給他補貼以及這個捷運部門面TPAS等等的有沒有可能給我一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4952.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4981.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
跟委員報告對學校是有一個適當的措施對醫院我還要去查那對捷運的話我必須說明一下台鐵那個以及北捷的因為T-PASS的使用我們已經大概是北捷有增加我覺得是增加了三十幾億的補助不是電價調整每年就有補助他三十幾億台鐵就有補助十幾億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4982.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5009.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那T-PASS勒?就是T-PASS勒所以捷運你們夠老喔學校還在捷運不是我們管我們是尊重我們是說我們對它有一些T-PASS的補助醫院勒?醫院醫院是怎麼樣?補助啊補貼啦補貼我剛才講的是年度啦是年度醫院學校勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5010.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5012.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
學校確定不調漲了?確定了!現在大學都說你要漲啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5027.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5043.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
對那個是那個據我知道那個是上個禮拜上個禮拜五的時候行政院有開開一個會對某些事不長的社福機構沒有長學校沒有長阿醫院的話我要去查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5044.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5070.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
所以可以確定的就是學校部長上午機構部長醫院還在考慮不是在考慮我要去看那個因為他是禮拜五做的一個決策什麼時候可以有答案對外宣布什麼時候可以有答案對外宣布他好像行政院已經好像是不是沒有沒有行政院沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5072.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5089.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那個我去了解一下他內部會議的好啦你這個要考慮到整體了特別弱勢團體請請回請回請一下金管會的黃主委以及數發部的理事長黃主委數發部請李懷仁先請教黃主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5098.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5114.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
金管會的AI防詐怎麼防啊現在有金融的AI防詐訓練模型國內銀行是我只限制國內運算國外銀行用國外運算可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5116.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5133.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
目前國內銀行有部分的項目做用AI,並沒有很廣泛。我們也有進展會定了一個AI指引,AI原則跟指引。那至於說AI防詐部分,我有責成銀行局特別要跟工會特別要注意將來這部分怎麼處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5136.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5155.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我要強調的是這些客戶的資料他的運算是不是都在國內銀行法16條規定了如果結合銀行的資訊系統AI系統AI模型請問要怎麼結合如果他在國外的話怎麼結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5157.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5171.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
報告委員您垂詢的這個問題我不應該我只是想釐清你的問題是AI銀行的AI防詐模型還是硬要被AI詐騙我不太清楚您的意思防詐防詐我講是防詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5172.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5188.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
銀行的AI防詐模型我不太確定銀行現在有沒有 局長說明一下報告委員現在銀行在使用AI的時候大部分都是在做一些風險控管那剛剛委員垂詢的說是不是會把資料傳送 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5189.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5191.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
目前沒有?目前沒有?好,有一個啊,這個政府導入111啊,111啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5213.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5229.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
幾乎都不會財政部就有這個了喔金管會啊可以可以不可以協助銀行保祿要要要民眾啊因為常常接到的銀行是假假簡訊我這裡就一張啊這個是自來水營業處他這裡就有寫喔簡訊短碼111財事北水處官方的簡訊一定有111 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5241.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5248.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
其他各部會都導入了就金管會這裡好像並沒有要求營養導入11有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5251.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5276.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
委員這我先說明一下公股銀行的部分本週我們就會開會確定導入的時間所以公股銀行都沒有問題了所以公股銀行今今本週可以要要要進去本週會開會導入他們導入的時程但是只要走政府採購細節會去但是應該都沒有問題只是導入時間的狀況但是民間的呢民間的部分我們其實是之前就有詢問過民間銀行有的他們想要用自己的檢碼他們想要去跟電信公司採購自己的檢碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5280.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5293.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個經國衛如果需要你的協助 你說他不可以協助嗎?完全沒有問題 全力配合好 這個第二個 我請教 請教理事長啊 你知道暗網嗎?我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5294.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5316.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
按往臺灣的個資在做每一部分 here不要懷疑你的資料全都入這裡我就擷取了一段9.8萬將近10萬筆的股民資料188塊美金因為是DT是另外一筆紙但是跟美金差不多188塊美金就是不到6000塊台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5318.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5337.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所有的股民資料全部都在這裡面那個主委你要不要針對這個事情講一下話暗網可以在這裡買賣我想我們如果有這個事情當然我們要資料已經給你看了就有這個事情了來來 市長知道了市長 來這個暗網上面一直持續都有這種說法但是資料可能要經過比對才能確認是不是真實 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5348.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5374.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為他常常有過去的各種資料去重整。你們有沒有追蹤黃土管理人力?跟委員報告政府整體來說有。那這個部分數位部沒有再主動追蹤,但是數位部有參加親資聯防。這個啊,有些就是只有揭露股門的資料而已喔。其他的資料各資早就漏光光了,而且賣的都不貴喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5375.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5384.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
兩千三百萬我們兩千三百萬人民的個資賣的話大概就差不多一千多塊美金而已啊對吧 我這數字對吧車長給我點頭是同意嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5389.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5392.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們網路上也有人買了被騙的。好,那我再請法務部,你們先不要走。 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5413.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5418.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
法務部的黃次長、還有刑事警察局的黃仁聰、副局長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5434.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5461.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
臺灣的97%使用LINELINE通訊軟體現在詐騙集團用的最多的通訊軟體就是LINE結果我們西市警察局交給檢察官交給法院來回了不起兩天但是把這個文傳到LINE去回復一個月回復一個月我就問理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5464.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5485.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
請問理事長有沒有邀請,或者請那個黃市長都可以齁有沒有邀請LINE來跟你們說請他快點啦這個詐騙一個月以後會花掉啊就不用你了啦有沒有有這個我們已經好幾次請LINE來開會也有請剪掉的同仁一起來開會沒有黃市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5487.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5501.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
各位報告,不只在我們負責打詐的台灣高等檢察署甚至本部已經多次的找賴公司來救他賴資料的提供的迅速性以及下架機制已經討論過非常多次了這國就是國會啊!討論了半天就是國會! |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5502.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5528.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
你不覺得太慢了嗎?更為報告因為賴他這公司畢竟是私人公司他有他的政策嘛所以他對於相關的資料的調取他就他公司的政策才一個比較嚴格的一個方式他必須要有法院的搜索令狀他才願意提供但是經過你們勒?經過我剛剛已經有講了你們仔細聽經過法院勒?經過法院給他調資料勒?經過法院勒一個月才給你啊其實我們勒?其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5531.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5553.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我告訴你們LINE跟在國安這一部分跟我們政府是有綠色通道的有綠色通道直接啊我們政府直接用LINE就政治的相關的案件政治證案這一部分LINE是回應很快的它有綠色通道 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5554.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5559.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
為什麼你們兩位長官集兩個這麼大的部會跟LINE講了半天,但是不買單,為什麼這樣子呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5582.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5596.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
為什麼一個月你一個月回來就不好啊?你知道嗎?請各位聽我好。我最近來接到行民服務啊。曾經的人被騙了三千萬。就是透過LINE。 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5598.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5626.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
﹏﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5626.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5635.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我先跟委員報告一下,過去在調閱門檻或是警方提供資料門檻,我們已經有成功協調它降下來,這個部分我們以後再跟賴說明要求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5652.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5673.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
你們一定跟他講要請他收斷啦,這一個月沒付錢啦,同意吧?黃市長,最後一個小問題,也是很重要的問題。LINE可不可以監聽?市長。這個是一個技術性的問題啦,就現狀個人所知來講,LINE目前通訊監察是有它一定的困難度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5674.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5675.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
一定時間上可以技術上要有一定的門檻但是可以做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5694.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5697.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
幾年前我做法務部次長那時候法務部次長叫陳明堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5721.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5744.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
就清楚在幾年前喔在司法委員會說LINE可以監聽好 查一下齁你們再來回覆下一位質詢請郭國 郭昭偉謝謝主席齁有請金管會黃主委李懷仁次長以及法務部的代表法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5746.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5765.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
是黃謀信、黃長赤是,教委長主委好,主委我請就教一個問題因為在實務上本席曾經有接獲到這樣的個案民眾當告知被詐騙的時候銀行還堅持把錢轉出去呢它的理由是因為有一個爭議的這個款項的授權書來自於國際組織的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5768.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5793.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
以OTP作為一個最高的認證的方式但是本席就我的理解2019年的時候歐盟就把OTP的部分也就是所謂的這個動態密碼的這個部分把它視為不安全的身份的認證但是銀行還堅持這樣的處理那而後類似這種詐騙行為的話是不是有可能要尊重一下這存款戶本身的權益這個保障只要銀行端 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5793.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5794.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5809.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5836.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
拜委員,一般國際卡、VISA、MASC、JCB都會用OTP做身份的確認所以OTP是一個非常有確定這個交易是不是完成的一個重要的指標那如果OTP已經都回去了所以這個應該就是確認這個交易是完成了對,如果是這樣子的話可是當錢還沒有匯款出去的時候這裡還有一個moment、一個時間點有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5838.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5851.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
這個我想委員那個您垂詢的這是一個個案我們現在包括今天我們在報告中都有提到特別對OTP來的時候怎麼樣讓我們的消費者知道這個OTP |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5852.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5853.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
當我們發現這個警示賬戶的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5879.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5904.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那在沒有任何一個財務的往來的一個必要性或者是商品勞務的提供的情況底下有某一帳戶得到不同來源的這個款項會被視為警示帳戶但是往往這個警示帳戶經過這個檢察官不起訴署份之後等於司法背書他就可以依此要求銀行端來予以讓他提領這一帳戶裡頭的一個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5905.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5925.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5925.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5925.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5941.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5943.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
發法的前提是甲官能夠確認他的單純,他的被害人他能夠確認而且訴訟上他已經沒有繼續保管的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5959.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5981.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是那個在形式上的部分嗎?可是他拿去就是可以拿去跟銀行…沒錯,如果委員體的狀況他沒有辦法確認的話,甲官他不會輕易發還,他會透過另外的訴訟程序去做另外的處理。對,甲官他不介入民事的分身。那當還沒有訴訟程序的時候,帳戶的持有人就會拿去銀行端端說我要提領這個金額的主張啊,問題就出現在這個moment,我等到我在提民事的時候錢都已經不知道到哪裡去了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5981.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5997.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以我是說在實務上你可以跟檢察官告知類似的情勢應該採取對相關當事人有利的一個處理方式就譬如講你先把款項還還我再給你予以不起訴的一個判決類似這種情況底下在實務上你們在法務部可以先處理嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5998.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6013.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
各位報告,這個機制水航官運用非常廣泛,我們現在有的被害人返還他相關的犯罪所得,甲官可以給他做不起訴處分或相關的資金做不起訴或相關的清的處理,我們有一些裁量上的處理可以讓被告先返還他的犯罪所得給被害人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6014.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6038.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
問題是現在案件不同有些有有些沒有問題出在這邊實務上我請法務部回去跟檢察官這邊叮嚀一下好不好好那沒問題然後另外那個主委一個部分的齁我們在存款賬戶的其實所謂不法其實顯示是異常交易管理辦法當中的第11條的部分啦齁這個這2條可不可能啊把它修正成說要求不起訴的賬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6040.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6046.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
在警示招募當中雖然經過不起訴應該先緩緩不當得力才予以解凍有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6047.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6070.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為檢視帳戶這些都是由檢調單位去確定對但是在銀行端的部分那個位階不夠高沒有 這個辦法上我是說這個辦法上是貴會所朝你的嘛我是說在這個11點的部分能不能加注嚴格一點也就是說在雙方還有爭議的情況底下未解除的情況底下不應該把這一筆資金與解凍嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6071.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6089.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
委員這樣好不好您垂尋的部分我們正在修這個辦法您把您的垂尋辦法看有沒有可能放進去對 把它放進去因為那個爭議事項尚未解除你要保障當事人嘛那另外一個部分當人頭詐募你被抓到的時候啊你五年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6090.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6113.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
一天只能提領一萬,這是正確的,應該給他適時的適當的做一個處罰可是他開戶的話是每家銀行都可以開戶台灣還有本土的銀行還有39家那我是39家我們一來提領的話也有39萬之多更何況這個開戶式的所有人只要他是曾經是賣過賬戶的或什麼樣的原因賬戶他有沒有可能納入連徵中心當中一個徵信範圍當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6116.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6140.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我記得告誡戶應該沒有那麼多的權利到每一個銀行去開戶我們了解一下但有沒有可能納入廉政的可能我們再瞭解麻煩一下好不好思考一下這個可能性好不好謝謝後面的部分就要請數位部跟金管會金管會跟數位部當中有一個平台這個聯繫平台當中主要是針對這個數位詐騙的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6145.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6168.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
好像我們在整個投資、投顧法70條之後投資的部分要實名制但是實名制的部分呢是主要以合法的投顧性業者為主嘛但問題是有一些下這些廣告的人不是合法的投顧性業者出在於說非合法投行業者他不用採實名制的話以至於現階段的整個詐騙金額當中的第一名就是投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6169.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6171.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
昨年我們經濟成長率不過是1.3億而已就佔了0.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6190.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6207.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
這0.9去的話這GDP我們就不可能飽餓了嘛有殺配的金額的問題是如此之重大為何啊這些Meta這Google那以及Yahoo都是只有信貸就業住社會選舉跟政治的部分有實名制為什麼投資沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6210.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6221.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
拜訪委員我們今天報告中也有講我們1月初開始Google跟MetaMeta在6月都要盡量要採用實名制那數位部這邊有一些措施那數位部來補充說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6240.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6262.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
是真實的業者才能投放這件事情那這個打詐專法就本席所理解以後的業管範圍這個部分的話以後就交給速發部去進行那個業管就我的理解的部分修法方向是如此啦那問題是在於說啊在法還沒有通過之前啊這個比例還是非常的高然後你們有沒有其他做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6266.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6283.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
委員不好意思您剛剛的題目可不可以在前面我沒有聽聽您剛剛說打詐專法是數位部主管我沒有聽懂打詐中心目前的這個打詐專法的部分未來的業管單位關於這個數位平台的部分的主責單位未來是數發部就我理解的部分是如何數位經濟平台是我們沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6284.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6313.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
現在以後是你們去掌管嗎?現在其實就是我數位經濟平台是如此啦平台啦我是說以後包括這些實名制的業務都是你們在掌管的你知道嗎?要不要實名制這個不太好因為強化的KYC不一定代表實名制這還是兩個程度的差別實名制是等於對外介入但是KYC強化KYC我們會要求就是最重要的一個依據啊這樣才能有救責的空間嘛對強化KYC目的是救責但不一定是實名制實名制已經是揭露了代言謝謝理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6314.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6330.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
接下來我最後的時間要請教一下黃主委黃主委其實所有的詐騙的關鍵當中最後的關鍵其實還是在於這個洗錢那洗錢的部分現在最多的管道的部分還是在虛擬貨幣的部分那虛擬貨幣的部分我知道您要納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6331.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6356.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是你要納管的部分目前的一個遵循的這個一則的部分雖然有國內外但是據我所知的目前只有國內沒有國外的這個這個幣商進來沒有任何一個交易的這一個交易所進來另外一個部分你以後的這個專法也還有一段時間但是依照目前我個人認為還是有兩塊的漏洞一個部分是海外交易的部分就海外幣商的部分怎麼處理你就只管國內不管海外嗎另外一個部分OTC的部分怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6358.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6383.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
其實有關個人 B商部分其實將來會在大家在討論在打詐法或是說在洗房法裡面去明文去規定這個時間會比我們的這個平台的專法要更提前所以這部分應該會做一些處理當然我們也請那個投資人一定要跟在國內向主管機關申報洗房的這個平台去做交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6384.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6411.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
平台的部分有他的牌照有沒有可能個人弊傷的時候有可能分流管理的方式也有一個牌照的可能性個人弊傷如果他要做這個業務本來也應該要向金管會來申請其實我們曾經罰過一家有罰過一張了好像罰過一家他沒有申報洗房然後我們就罰了就這樣子對那我的意思是說這個部分有沒有可能分流管理有沒有可能這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6412.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6412.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
主席主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6445.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6460.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
下一質詢請賴會員、賴委員謝謝主席我們請金管會主委還有永安局莊局長還有政區局張局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6475.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6496.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
主委長安安。我想近期經濟部為了阻斷主任公司換高利貸給消費者,其實我們做了很多很大的一個動作跟改善。那真的是在檢討還是藉機的在推銷?這個好像我們顯然是要再好好的來討論一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6498.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6518.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我在網路上看到很多很多的一個廣告就是這個緊急的公告就是三大融資公司他已經正式的對外宣布4月1號起開始了如果你們就是4月1號我們要調整調整他們可帶的一個額度不會是在以前那麼的寬鬆 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6520.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6541.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一台摩托車可以借到30萬一台車子可以借到100多萬所以他告訴大家就是最後的末班車那我想這三家融資公司就是從中租抵合的416億他的那個股權他的資本額還有易融的43億然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6542.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6553.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
還有核認的66億那我想在這裡問一下就是金管會主委你認為就是說這樣的一個行銷廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6554.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6573.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
有沒有涉嫌到就是他們藉機的在推銷他不介入實際的一個利率他在這裡頭都沒有講到他的利率是多少那等到我們消費者接到錢了以後才知道說這個利率是比天還高這個是不是類似詐騙的一個高利貸呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6575.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6592.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
法務委員其實我不能替他們回答他到底是行銷還是為了要遵循法規但是我們但是看這一張這一個公告裡頭你看不出來嗎他這個陷阱這麼多不是每一個人都像法務委員其實這也是我們的重點我們希望他 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6593.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6594.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以你也看得出來這個是不合理的 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6614.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6639.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我想我們最近在多位委員的垂尋關心之下其實經濟部跟我們都有同步採取一些措施那我想對他們來講是會強化監理的是我想這個已經有達到了一個成效那針對的就是這三大主任公司這個其實他們背後的股東是誰在這個差別很大在金融圈裡頭他說這個顯然是一國兩制 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6643.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6659.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
在這一個三大的一個那個主任公司裡頭他們背後的股東如果他們的背景是受到我們整體的一個銀行還有就是有這個銀行的背景的時候他們的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6660.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6660.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6677.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6704.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
其實我個人覺得因為金管會是高度監理那授信這款本來不是金融的專屬業務其實本來也不是說不能做但是在過去這幾年我們其實包括穩定房價各方面我們也透過我們的金融機構間接的對這些主任公司的相關的授信有做一些節制是有在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6705.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6709.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我剛也跟您報告去年年初大家談...報告委員其實票卷公司也是他的金主 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6726.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6728.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
中租跨族生意保健 中安家 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6742.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6768.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這個快速的一個崛起成為顧仲立的一個新蟲我們在財訊裡頭都看到了2020他的那個業績才是8000萬到了2022年他在台灣的業績是2億在中國大陸是2.5億所以這個總數超過5億他非常引以得意他告訴我們說他這一個這個是即將崛起的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6770.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6770.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主席﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6787.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6803.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
有沒有問題?報告委員,我非常尊敬您有這麼深入的分析,不過這個主任跟生醫是不是彼此有互動,那我這個還需要去了解,不過如果委員有什麼指示可以交代我們。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6803.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6829.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我再跟您看一些資料這一個是在中國金融的新聞網裡頭他特別講到了金融的服務還要搭售營養品這是什麼情形就是說你借錢你還要保健品那這一個是已經判讀下來了他判讀下來法院他們中國的法院判讀是說這個是不合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6829.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6830.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我問給您報告﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6854.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6855.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我相信這個時間是慢了一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6884.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6900.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
是不是有辦法快?因為我相信有很多很多的無知的消費者就是一點一滴是在被陷害的。希望大家有腳步好不好?是。好,謝謝。那後面的問題我們要請那個通傳會副主委、法務部長賜、數位部次長。我想針對的... |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6913.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6930.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
針對著金融廣告的一個行銷我在這裡要問那個請教法務部部長就是說他隱匿不合理的一個利息就是我們的主任公司隱匿不合理的一個利息是不是會構成重力罪他大量的在網路上的一個行銷會不會呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6932.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6932.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我現在講的就是通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6947.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6949.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我再請教我再請教你針對的就是超過16%超過16%要怎麼要回來我們從這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6971.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6994.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
約定的一個例例就是每一年的16%的時候,超過的部分約定是無效的。部長,我們看到了民眾戶出去的要怎麼回來,這個我們有沒有辦法就是去有保護的機制,就是說來保護這些被詐騙的被害人呢?有沒有辦法? |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6995.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7011.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
民法上就這個超過固定的利率它有一定的規範當然委員會提到這是一個特別做一個規範我們要重啟規定那如果超過這個法定利率超過16按照這條規定它是無效無效的話它法律上但民法上它就沒有請求權 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7013.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7033.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以我在這裡跟各位討論就是說其實在整個整個就是台灣的一個現有的一個社會裡頭普遍的存在了很多很多的一個這樣子的一個主任公司的一個廣告行為如果我們沒有跨部會去整合的話其實這樣的一個狀況就衝刺了我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7036.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7037.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想是不是請那個我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7066.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7082.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我們請翁副主委來回應這個問題好不好有接過這樣的信息有接過這樣的信息那你怎麼辦你把他掛了我想通常會這邊就會剛才在我們的報告裡面會對這個信息都會去做攔阻跟警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7083.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7100.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
是,可是如果就是有做那個攬組那我們有做很好的一個管制的話就不會像現在今天大家一直在討論的這些問題所以本席在這裡要求我們行過去的P2P的業者管理的一個途徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7101.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7122.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們希望將主任業者納入管轄,這個要拜託就是我們的主委就是要求修訂的時候我們要更嚴管的去把這個自立的規則把它建立下來。那也希望就是建立管制下架廣告緊急騷擾的電話的管理機制,那請一個月書面回應我。 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7122.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7137.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
然後法務部你要重新再檢討就是重力罪構成的一個要件建立一個跨部會的機制隨時進行檢討那也請你一個月內那個書面的報告給本席好謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝下一位質詢請王宏威王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7153.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7153.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7165.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7186.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
主席長好,主席長這兩天大家最熱議的話題就是電價上漲那尤其是在經濟部公布了包含工業用電、民生用電的電價漲幅之後那麼現在呢百頁含漲大家都說可能受不了所以主席長你認為在電價調漲之後那麼會不會有這個民生消費物價上漲的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7192.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7193.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7214.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7237.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以電價上漲確實會造成物價上漲的一個壓力否則的話中央銀行也不會違背整個國際的這個趨勢反而就是沒有降息反而升息跟那位委員報告一下因為那個我們的利率事實上是實質利率是負的所以央行有那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7239.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7254.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
實質利率為什麼會是負的呢?就是物價上漲的過高嘛,對不對?來,我們來看喔,因為這兩天大家都非常擔心電價上漲。結果呢,我們經濟部長王美花,王部長喊話說,警告業者不能以漲電價為由來漲物價。 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7257.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7262.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
主計長你覺得這句話適當嗎?可能嗎?我沒有聽到他講這個,但是我認為說他應該有一個前提是不當的這個是怎麼漲價到,超過成本的漲價也許是不恰當的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7275.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7290.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
所以你覺得說如果業者去反映他的店家上漲的成本 這難免會有漲物價只是說不應該是用烘台的方式 或者是找一個藉口就隨便漲物價 對不對對 我的委員說得非常對 他應該原意是這樣子 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7293.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7318.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以我覺得王部長他當然很擔心說這個會造成物價的連動可是恐嚇業者沒有辦法解決未來會漲價的一個狀況而且你說不能漲價那我們現在也說不要漲電價啊不能漲電價那請問一下經濟部聽嗎?行政院也不聽啊另外主計長我再跟您請教我們最近非常關心的就是上漲電價之後呢對於大眾運輸業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7322.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7341.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
尤其像我們在台北我們的捷運出非常非常多比如說我們台北捷運、台中捷運、桃捷還有高雄捷運、台鐵、高鐵事實上都因此而使它的營運成本大幅的升高所以現在地方比如說以台北市就希望能夠針對大眾運輸能夠動漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7344.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7345.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
北捷島他是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7369.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7370.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以應該要給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7399.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7426.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
現行就有補助了他補助不夠啊你現在補助現在他去年多了3.6億吧今年要超過5億因為每年電價越漲越高那你現在補助完全不夠所以他提出來你也不要給我補助了你就動漲可不可以跟那個委員報告一下因為我剛才講過他們我們不能干涉他說他漲不漲價但是據我了解的他們的電價上漲的話大概是佔他們成本大概1% |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7428.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7451.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
不只啦,百分之十三、百分之十幾所以基本上這個大會我到交通委員會我也會幫臺北市捷運來請命好,時間暫停,我想主計長可以請回我找金管會主委、NCC、翁副主委、數發部李政次委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7462.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7478.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們今天的報告都說我們的行動綱領1.0版自執行以來初見成效成效在哪裡?成效其實是可以用數字化的我們來看一下雖然我們成立了國家打詐隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7479.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7501.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
但是呢可以看到這7年來詐騙案也好或詐騙的金額也好是連年的在升高一直在創紀錄所以一方面我們說我們有出件打詐成效但是打詐成效回饋給你的缺失打騙案也好案件數跟金額都在創新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7502.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7524.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
尤其事實上在我們整個的打架過程裡面我們的檢察官他們曾經召開過這個類似公聽會那麼在我們一線的檢察官曾經針對詐騙提到有三大戰犯三大戰犯呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7525.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7550.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
包括我們經管會他說人頭戶欠缺管理然後NCC對於電信的境外門號管理不佳然後數位部對第三方支付也是欠缺管理所以在第一線檢察官他們用具名的方式直接點名三大戰犯但我也看到你們今天的報告有針對這些你們提出一些你們所這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7552.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7576.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
執行跟落實的相關的政策所以我想請問主委我想請問NCC和訴發部你們能不能保證你們能不能保證第一季馬上就要結束了因為現在已經3月了在今年第一季我們的詐騙案也好詐騙金額也好可以看到顯著的下降你們有沒有這樣的信心可以保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7578.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7596.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我想基層檢察官的指教我們虛心受教那我們也不斷在改進那第一季最重要的就是揮名單還有那個告誡戶的上線對我知道你們上線了我認為應該會有效果但是我想我不太適合去代表打詐平台去表示意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7597.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7613.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
至少你們人頭戶的部分我看到你們做了一些事情來來我時間有限來我們現在是委員好那個我們就針對國際贏得來的話這邊的話有攔阻跟警示這個有成效那我們因為這個詐騙集團他的手法不斷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7615.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7640.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我待會就要告訴你新手法又出來了所以說我們會結合電信公司在這邊持續精進有關於國際漫遊的黑美卡我們上個禮拜有跟電信公司已經達成上技術上面可以去驗證我想接下來會推出一系列的方法所以黑美卡可以驗證可以委員問到重點是好那這個部分來NCC那個書房 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7641.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7642.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我看到你們在遊戲點數要做管理,對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7664.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7692.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我希望不要等到我們過一兩個月之後再來去檢視的時候發現我們第一季根本沒有下降的跡象這點非常重要而且我們不應該追在這些詐騙集團的後面在那邊捕破網而已我在這邊也特別提出來這些詐騙集團手法推陳出新我給幾位看一下現在在網路上出現的一些就是告訴你你要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7694.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7694.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
法務部、黃謀信、常志 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7726.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7748.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以次長必須要講這些詐騙集團實隨之謂這個惡劣是在哪就是你還在騙被騙過的人就是很多人就是你已經經過人都被騙過了你還要再騙一騙再騙所以像這樣的方式這樣的手法一定要研辦可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7751.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7777.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好,我希望以後我們再看到的沒有這種明明你已經是騙過人還要再一騙再騙另外一部分就是他們談到就是說你怎麼樣追回你被騙的這些錢那我也要特別提出因為在全世界確實都有感於這個國際詐騙真的是越來越多所以呢追回部分或者全部的損失也變成很重要的除了防堵之外在 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7777.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7795.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
拜遍之後你要追回如果你看世界各國來說這個比例啊就是跟我們鄰近這幾個國家台灣是最低的台灣是最低的所以我想請法務部去研究一下因為這個是世界防詐組織他們所做的這樣的一個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7799.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7821.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我希望法務部去研究一下為什麼日本可以追回將近三成他當然也沒有到三成啦但是我們台灣最低13.9%所以是不是在法令上或者是在我們這些行政相關的就是這些措施上有沒有有所不足然後我們去把它補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7823.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7838.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
至少我們可以去追回一部分損失的金額減少我們這些受害人的損失可不可以?公文報告那事實上我們憲刑法上的確就有相關犯罪所得追還的機制但是也許不足那我們在打詐專法裡面我們會去設計相關條文看怎麼制度上設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7843.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7843.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
謝謝,請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7872.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7893.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
下一位質詢請黃珊珊黃委員那等一下我們就現場質詢到王世堅王委員那就再休息謝謝好謝謝主席我請金管會的黃主委請黃主委NCC副主委還有蘇發部蘇發部是委員長鄭次 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7902.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7925.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
主委好,我想大部分很多的詐騙都是來自於所謂的釣魚簡訊對吧?應該一部分吧,對一部分尤其是假冒銀行假冒投資我的手機已經沒有什麼朋友會傳真正的簡訊大家都用其他的通訊軟體來個簡訊幾乎都是不是借錢就是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7926.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7946.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我看到去年應該是去年的9月份金管會銀行局曾經說銀行工會訂定自律規範發送簡訊的話只可以連結到官網進行廣告的宣傳提醒告知不可以要求民眾輸入任何的交易資訊這是金管會的政策是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7947.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7967.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
應該有,對。但是主委啊,我每天還是會接到我的銀行發簡訊說,你的訊息怎麼樣,然後連結之後還是叫我去打身份證字號,連結上去,去查你轉帳的結果。簡訊不是不能再有這些東西了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7968.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7983.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我想確認一下那個不是詐騙嗎?不是詐騙,但是銀行沒有按照銀行局的要求來辦。是不是局長你說一下,不好意思。還有發生,而且每天都在發生。好,如果有這個情況,那規範怎麼定? |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7986.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8009.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
報告委員,我們當時其實是希望說銀行再發動要...只是染心的要求沒有任何強制力是嗎?所以還是必須像我看到了我可能不會上去,民眾還是會上去這種釣魚的還是會上當啊好不好銀行局,如果你們真的有這樣的要求那就是按照規定請所有的銀行都照辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8011.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8035.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
第二部分,書發部我們有很多的政府部門已經用短碼了,這些銀行可不可以要求他們也用短碼來做相關的處理啊?短碼比較不容易被引用到詐騙集團那邊去對吧?是,各位報告我們這個禮拜會跟公股銀行討論,原則上公股銀行就會導入公股銀行一定要做,民間銀行金管會我們先希望他們做,這並不難對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8037.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8062.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
委員我再稍微補充說明民間銀行我們之前有接觸民間銀行他們自己商業考量他們想要用自己的短碼也可以只要有短碼這個部分可不可以請書發部跟NCC大家一起來在簡訊管理上面希望他們都能夠申請短碼包委員這個部分假使是商用的短碼NCC現在跟電信業者還有簡訊的平台的代發業者已經商討了會有一個六碼的商 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8063.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8091.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
市民營銀行的部分我們正在推動我們會推動這個電信的信任產業讓它能發展當簡訊已經成為詐騙極端最好的工具的時候這件事情短碼的叫做現在立刻就可以減少一大半的簡訊詐騙所以儘管會對於銀行的要求至少我們合法的銀行要求他們納入所謂短碼的部分我覺得進度要更快一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8091.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8092.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
請法務部黃牧信黃長赤 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8113.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8122.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好我想今天的這個所謂打詐綱領1.5我們看到很多的報告裡面法務部有一筆錢是要建立所謂的AI分析平台是嗎?是好AI的你要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8130.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8130.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
好,來黃主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8160.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8178.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
金管會我們現在打架應該是全國最重要的一件事了那裡面有很多的我們要做的打架最重要的是錢我們不是要抓那個人我們主要是要把錢留在那個帳戶裡或者讓他留不出去對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8182.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8196.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以重點是要抓到人但是抓到人沒有用因為錢追不回來現在的問題就在於說當我們的銀行端如果可以在林桂攔截住了但是沒有在林桂攔截 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8197.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8225.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
等到是警示賬戶的時候警示賬戶的錢早就出去了所以我們現在要做的除了打詐之外阻絕相關的詐騙來源最重要的是能夠把錢留在那個賬戶裡面讓他留不出去讓詐騙機關拿不到錢整個詐騙的犯罪才不會這麼繼續猖獗這才是我覺得很重要的一塊所以這個是委員、法務委員這也是我們努力的目標所以現在全球國際起點組織其實在推動一個叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8226.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8232.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
現在金管會有相關的警示賬戶的資料銀行都有然後法務部呢也有這些所謂的被詐騙的受害者的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8250.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8272.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
然後我們的金管會所有的相關的警示帳戶還有接下去的這些訊息其實都可以看得出來我講個簡單的例子上一次的IMB受害人他們表示有一個他們會進去的錢那個個人的帳戶那一年進出57億 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8276.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8302.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個帳戶就明顯是非常的異常可是我們沒有任何預警機制一個帳戶可以進出款項大量的進出五十幾億這是我們整個銀行體制沒有任何的預警措施所以 主委我們現在要做的不只是單單的只是銀行零貴啊零貴沒有警示帳戶他也不能禁止人家領錢或者是禁止人家匯款 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8303.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8319.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
但是如果一個帳戶已經離譜到這種情況我們是不是應該有一個預警機制所以國際洗錢機制他們已經開始往這個方向處理那現在好像銀行部分是富邦銀行有一個相關的因緣 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8320.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8320.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8335.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8362.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
國際已經是這個方向了銀行也在做了政府、法務部也編了錢了你們也有1.5的綱領了我們是不是要做一個國家級的預警機制用人工智慧把這種可能已經發生的所有的警視帳戶也好受害人帳戶也好還有剛剛講的大量短時間進出的讓銀行可以把這些訊息都能拿上來我們訓練機器去做出預警的方式這個帳戶常常這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8364.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8366.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
除了剛剛講的我們希望能夠建立一個國家級的AI預警機制而不是靠著銀行連富邦銀行都在做的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8393.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8413.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
中華民國政府應該扛起來做我的意思不是只有打詐辦公室而是真的要把這些國家可以為什麼要國家來做因為銀行只能拿到他自己的資料銀行拿不到法務部的資料而且銀行拿不到虛擬資產的資料拿不到第三方支付的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8414.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8429.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
如果可以由金管會、法務部你們都要往這個方向走我希望建立的是一個國家級的人工智慧預警機制我們才能把錢留在那個奇怪的賬戶讓他留不出去抓到人才抓得到錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8430.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8434.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
黃主委如果不幫銀行做得到如果國際洗錢組織都在做法務部也編了這個錢其實就是怎麼樣把這些資訊就像他講的嫁接起來第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8449.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8475.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
區域資產第三方支付各種部分把它變成一個平台而這個平台金管會賬戶由你們來操控我們才能夠有機會把錢留下來當他從這個水庫留到那個水庫之後你再花多少人力物力都是沒有用的好不好主委我希望在雖然5月520才要交接但是我希望一個月之內法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8477.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8501.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
訴發部甚至NCC甚至金管會就所謂的人工智慧怎麼來處理這個預警機制不應該發生一個賬戶進出五十幾億沒有人發現銀行通報了沒有用因為他沒有犯罪他沒有警示他就進進出出五十幾億就這樣來來去去被害人看到了你做何感想他沒有犯罪啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8502.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8502.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8536.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8549.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
接著請李昆成立委員質詢。謝謝主席。我們先請朱主計長。請朱主計長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8556.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8581.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
主席長好這個3月21號的這個央行的禮監事會議這個本來金融業者還有媒體預期可能不會在這一次的禮監事會議就升席了那媒體是大家是預估有可能在6月才會決定說下半年這個會不會升席那結果沒想到這個在3月21號的這個央行的禮監事會議這個就決定要升席半碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8582.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8608.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
然後這個我們總裁說這是一個 surprise那雖然是 surprise呢不過是一個合理的決定因為他認為說這個是會要抑制這個國內通膨的預期心理算是一種呢預防性的升息那主計長呢也是央行的這個監事會的主席3月21號的李監事會議呢這個主計長也有出席那想請教一下這個我們的主計長主計長也決定升息辦碼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8610.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8610.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
本席請教這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8635.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8652.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
主計長,那對於楊總裁升席辦碼的決定您支持嗎?我尊重他的,因為我們終究是一個團隊,謝謝。那就是支持的意思就對了?是的。那支持的理由在哪裡?可不可以請主計長跟我們說明一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8653.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8668.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
因為央行總裁講得很清楚他是擔心那個預期心理而且是怎麼樣目前到因為那個水果內的漲幅以及尤其那個所謂的那個那個那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8672.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8674.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
主計總署對於CPI年增率的預測是1.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8699.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8699.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
本席想請教主計長． |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8722.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8740.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
就是說在2月底的時候你對於這個今年的CPI年增率呢還是在這個1.85左右然後現在已經預計已經確定要升息半碼了那請問一下這個主計長你這個對於這個今年的CPI你會不會也跟著做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8741.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8754.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對,因為我們二月二十九日主計總書宗那個宣布的時候還沒有那個定價的政策,因為我們不會對未知的事情去表示意見。如果現在定價已經確定了。但是央行會呢?央行他說他已經把四月份的這個考慮進去了。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8757.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8774.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
主計總統現在已經確定了4月份會調整電價我們的央行是估計據我知道是2.16我們估計是2.03因為還有一個最重要的原因4月1號開始所以全年的CPI對他的影響大概是9個月而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8775.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8801.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
所以這個主計總處也會上修這個CPI成長率就對了我那個要到五月份才會上修因為我們要經過委員會通過的那我們內部的做的大概是2.03左右2.03左右就是扣掉前面四個月就對了對對對那那個央行沒有因為我們原來沒有做電價包括在裡面那現在又把電價加進去了CPI認證率也會再提升就對了對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8802.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8811.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
不過楊總裁把經濟成長率也上修了,上修到3.22%我們主計總處預計今年的成長率是3.43%不過因應電價調漲,經濟成長率還有可能維持在3.43%嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8820.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8821.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以認為對經濟成長不會有太大的影響?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8839.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8863.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
因為我看這個央行是上修啦上修經濟成長率啦那我不知道說對於這個主計總處來講會不會做修正我們的那個等五月份的時候我們再來做一個處理因為中間可能會有些變化跟委員報告一下目前國內的各機構的對我們的GDP的預測大家都是預計大概是13%以上對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8867.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8881.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那這個本期在就教主計長6月份還要再開一次這個央行的這個禮監事會議那不曉得這個主計長你認為說會不會6月份在開會的時候又再讓我們surprise一次又再升習辦碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8882.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8902.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對那個要不要申詢在央行的時候都是經過理事投票我知道那您的預測勒我不敢預測我尊重央行因為我們監事會員則上政策不會過分的表示意見所以你也是指開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8903.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8911.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那我現在看物價有一點蠢蠢欲動的心理啦跟委員報告一下事實上最近3年來我們的物價是在往下的一個趨勢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8929.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8951.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
對阿,因為我上次問主計長,主計長認為說百分之二的通膨是溫和的是溫和的,那所以說那是不曉得說因為這個可能央行的想法跟主計長的想法比較不一樣我們兩個原則上是一樣的,我們剛才講我們CPI的預估只差0.1個百分點那所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8953.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8966.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
現在物價有蠢蠢欲動的感覺啦所以本期才請教主計長說是不是有可能在6月的時候會再讓我們surprise一次我6月應該不會站在這裡了所以我不會在這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8968.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8971.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
所以您也不敢預測就是說6月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8990.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8998.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
會發生什麼樣的情況?會不會有Supply?我不曉得。不曉得。對對。好,謝謝主計長。謝謝委員。我們請這一個黃主委。請黃主委。委員長。好,主委好。這個齁,這個謝靖和在他的臉書上面寫說這是一個什麼樣的荒謬的世界。不曉得這個主委有沒有看到謝靖和這篇臉書? |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9019.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9041.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他最主要是講說有人用他的名字來詐騙然後詐騙他就立即通知這個臉書然後他就跟臉書檢舉說有人用他的名字來詐騙但是臉書回覆他說這個廣告沒有違反廣告刊登守則的公平公正公開原則所以他的檢舉臉書就不受理所以他說這是一個荒謬的世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9042.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9051.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
然後呢這個很多這個他的這個詐騙的廣告一夜市的詐騙廣告呢那比如說吼現在很多這個詐騙的廣告吼以泄集合為例吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9052.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9078.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
他說這個他絕對不會叫粉絲匯款然後呢最近詐騙多到這個看不下去所以他重新啟用一個新的臉書帳號就等於說詐騙集團呢他是用這個反詐騙的警語然後企圖躲過這個我們關鍵字的搜尋用反詐騙的名義呢來行騙那這個當然已經後來就下架了那我想請問一下就是說現在一夜市的廣告的這個詐騙是由哪個機關來阻擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9082.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9087.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
現在問題就發生在說,實名制Google已經有做到了對不對?那臉書Meta還沒有?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9106.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9127.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
為什麼他要到6月份?他們系統跟著英國一起,他們全球政策,大概6月。全球政策?這個是我們要求他跟全球政策有什麼關係?因為他們整個系統都要改,包括他們在其他國家也面臨這個問題。那這個所以我們要等到6月份,你看嘛,謝金河他說他去跟Meta來檢舉,但結果Meta說這個沒有違反這個廣告原則,明明就是詐騙式的廣告勒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9130.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9147.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
就沒辦法處理?那是因為他是謝金河今天如果說其他人的話有辦法這樣處理嗎?這分兩段一段是前面的臉書另外一段後面是一夜市廣告一夜市廣告如果是詐騙廣告我們透過RPTT就直接封住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9148.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9172.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
除了這個Meta除了Google之外現在Line也是啊好像很多就是這種一夜四的廣告就是說我點進去之後然後要我加入某一個Line的群組或是說去申請某個App那現在我的問題在於說你們有Google有Meta要求實名制那Line咧?詐騙的Line它只能公告提醒也沒辦法移除下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9173.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9201.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那甚至呢抖音,抖音現在沒有落地啊但是在抖音上面現在有超過50也都是屬於這種假投資的詐騙那抖音你們怎麼去處理勒?抖音的部分我們正在跟他我們跟他碰過面我們也正在要求他們配合這個包括警方或者是包括選舉的部分有辦法嗎?正在討論不是啊,那他們因為沒有落地嘛你們是怎麼透過什麼樣的方法去跟我們就直接跟他們公司談就像推特也沒有落地但是他們也會配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9201.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9230.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
他們公司在哪裡?你是問TikTok嗎?對TikTokTikTok在新加坡在新加坡所以你們是跟新加坡的公司來處理這件事情就對了因為沒有落地嘛因為我不知道說最後抖音和TikTok能不能進來這是另外一回事這個就不是我們能夠判決對這是涉及到國安那甚至說現在講這個詐騙的問題就是說LINE也是然後那個TikTok也是那這個東西呢你們要去處理現在看起來Google他是最聽話其他都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9231.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9233.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
接下來的質詢請王世堅、王委員王委員質詢完畢就休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9262.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9276.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
對啦,我質詢完是應該讓他們休息啦因為我會很不客氣的齁那個主席我請速發部今天的代表速發部李次長謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9285.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9307.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
蘇發部,你是次長。我看了你們通篇,今天六個部會都來了。你們的報告,我覺得你們的報告,寫是寫得密密密麻麻,但是我四個字形容天馬行空。你們去年才這一套所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9313.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9324.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個系統就已經被詐騙集團識破侵入而且用來對交通罰款那欺騙我們的民眾們說預期未繳那這個用這個來詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9329.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9342.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
才剛被揭發結果你們死性不敢這一次你們在這個報告裡面你們竟然又推一個什麼111政府專屬短碼簡訊平台這個短碼簡訊平台很簡單就是說有個111為前提那民眾就應該相信這是政府來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9359.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9387.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
你這麼幼稚你連那個GOV.TW都被詐騙集團運用了要加個1拜託我待會就發個簡訊給你看你信不信莫名其妙去年你這個錯誤警政署在防騙宣導就說這個王子啊GOV.TW不能相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9389.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9391.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
不到一年你今天又搞這個所以我八個字送你速發布啦裝神弄鬼欺世盜民你搞這個一一你要搞多少錢你你光第一期的建制費你就要花一千兩百萬拜託詐騙集團不用花一萬塊就把你破解了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9420.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9445.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我不曉得成立你們這個部在幹什麼你看看你今天來的部會雖然他們成績不是很棒我就講我們的金融體系金管會金融體系的他們至少有他們的專業他們至少時時刻刻知道說啊做錯了檢討反省你們呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9453.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9467.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以我懶得到你回答了啦我看你那個嬉皮笑臉的樣子你今天沒打瞌睡就已經阿彌陀佛了啦時間暫停你回去沒打過瞌睡你就是打過我沒看過這麼惡劣的官員那個主席時間暫停我生氣了三秒鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9485.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9486.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我晚一點把你打瞌睡的鏡頭畫面傳給你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9512.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9522.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
等一下我助理會傳給你。你好好檢討反省。主席我請金管會黃主委。好請黃主委。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9531.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9553.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
黃主委這個我上次在講販售金融商品債券基金然後販賣給我們的菜籃族、媽媽族、上班族等等讓他們來承擔這麼大的風險那這個部分我提了之後又發現這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9556.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9579.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
在銷售這些金融商品第一名的竟然是中信那中信靠著這個這麼多的理財手續費那麼他們賺的錢是大概另外前4名加起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9580.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9581.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
他竟然是詐騙案裡面涉案警示戶最多的啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9610.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9624.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我相信黃主委你知道這也不是我們隨便說說也不只是統計新北的檢察長啊於檢察長他就說了涉案警示物最多的就是他中信那 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9627.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9627.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9652.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9665.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我今天要跟你提的這個就是說事實上對中信的內機內控的查查我不曉得你們查的怎麼樣是還要認定這個金融怪獸在那邊繼續有那麼多鬆懈的內機內控然後讓這個詐騙集團得以在那邊開戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9676.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9704.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
還是你們有什麼積極的作為呢?那個...黃主委首先感謝委員您對這個議題的關心我們非常尊重、尊敬其實中信因為早年它分行多它的很便民所以它的戶數很多的確如您所說的它開始警示帳戶很多所以從那開始我們對警示帳戶多的幾家銀行就專案列管要求它定期改進那去年它有個案子是分行的行員 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9705.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9706.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他過分到連他的行員都勾結詐騙集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9721.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9748.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個已經是荒唐很離譜而且桃園地方法院都已經判刑了所以我認為中信至少啊至少他在那邊廣為宣傳他自己防詐騙做的多好這一個部分我們官方不要背書可以嗎要不然又讓更多的我們的存款戶我們的市民朋友我們不曉得又跟著被捲入又被欺騙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9749.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9757.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
可不可以?有緣我們會照您的提示去處理。謝謝。然後不遑多讓的是這些融資公司啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9758.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9759.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
但是﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9786.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9789.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我覺得很傷腦筋的這些融資公司竟然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9791.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9819.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
他們的從業人員也勾結詐騙集團天吶這更可怕他們勾結詐騙集團然後讓被害者不知不覺當中竟然要跑來嚇租賃公司、融資而且融資的金額也都相當金額以上所以內神通外鬼你沒錢被騙沒關係租賃公司幫忙你錢借給你讓你去被騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9821.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9846.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
天啊!被騙了以後傷腦筋耶!除了被騙這些金額後續五年十年二十年都要被租賃公司的高額利息高利貸壓榨他天啊竟然有這樣子的事情我不曉得你知不知道我收到很多投訴那事實上上個月我還 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9848.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9868.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
研究室還辦了一場這樣子的協調會就是協調受騙物那他受騙結果這個金額怎麼有那麼多錢被騙他家裡他爸爸自己也不相信哇奇怪小孩子還在讀書怎麼有那麼多錢被騙原來就是像 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9870.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9870.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
拜訪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9891.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9891.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們會積極努力,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9918.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9933.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好,積極努力啦好不好,尤其我說就這三家最大的跟我們的銀行體系融資了五千億元,跟銀行融資體系來便宜的低利息界,然後他去高利貸。 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9934.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9952.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
放給需要的借款人、消費者我們銀行體系有那五千億去借也同意要消費貸款的話就銀行體系直接貸款給消費朋友們不是這樣子嗎?利息又合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9953.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9971.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
然後至少在管理帳戶上追討帳戶上面他不會找討債公司不是這樣嗎?委員您承認非常正確我們會鼓勵銀行體系也對這些客戶提供一些信用謝謝那主席抱歉我再一分鐘喔是因為剛才我看到那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9973.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9974.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我從Google上面搜尋那竟然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10001.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10026.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
竟然有一則這個廣告跟我們政府現在要公佈的這個1.5版的策略竟然是同框吶這個策略是什麼你螢幕上看一下這個是洗錢防治法的刑事詐欺案律師爭取刑責判罪多上百件成功案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10028.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10054.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
你有沒有看到這個是幫我們要打擊的詐騙集團他們來脫罪了幫他們的車手、水手、曲步手這樣子的廣告竟然跟我們政府要宣布的我們現在防詐的政策做法這些擺在一起所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10055.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10081.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那個黃主委這個部分是不是您努力一下?您立刻要回去有所行動好不好?我們提到平台上看看這個律師我聽過這些事情我們覺得我聽過這些事最不可忍受的他的廣告大辣辣的跟我們的政策擺在一起他在挑釁我們嗎?或者是說政府有這樣的政策民眾關心政府招來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10086.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10109.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
訊息的收聽收視者招過來以後讓他們來做生意是這樣子嗎?荒唐我認為這件事情這個我對速發部已經早就沒有任何計畫了那個黃天牧主委我們大家對你都還有所期許你回去處理看結論怎麼樣那跟本會還有跟本委員做一個說明好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10110.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10110.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
休息5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10589.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10589.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
現在繼續質詢請顏寬恆、顏委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10611.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10617.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
主席、各位律師委員、主席、我想請主計長、內政部、法務部。請主計長、請法務部、黃謀信、長賜。主計長好。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10640.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10642.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
黃長賜、內政部警政署副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10656.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10664.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
呃 主席長 這個政府公布在4月1號要調漲電價這是全國的人都知道了 1300萬戶漲定了啦平均漲幅11%不分級距 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10670.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10695.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
都要為這個錯誤的政策光電弊案、綠能弊案還有台電虧損連連等等都要由民眾來買單政府在2023年、2024年分別編列預算增資台電1500億、1000億更在2023年用超增用超增的收入人民的納稅錢以特別預算來補貼500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10698.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10717.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那這一次電價調整是已經在政院補貼的一千億以上的基礎在漲價就是說光在這兩年行政院已經對台電支援了四千億而這四千億都是我們的納稅錢都是人民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10718.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10743.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10744.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10763.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
臨受傷或者是民生的一些生活那最後的成本都轉嫁給我們這些消費者民眾最無奈最後還要替我們執政黨挫屁股都是我們這些老百姓錯誤的政策不斷貪汙腐敗的一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10764.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10765.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10786.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10806.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我看到主計總處的報告說為提升我國打擊詐欺犯罪效能等來設立行政院打詐辦公室、台灣高檢署、法務部調查局、六都直轄室、調查處機動站、警政署等等的部會機關都成立相關的打詐平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10807.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10824.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我要舉一個例子就是警方在去年破獲巨大型的詐騙集團的洗錢機房本部當初在攻堅的時候這些員警第一線的員警還用垂釣的方式來突破這些歹徒的機房 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10826.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10846.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
但冒著生命危險引起社會極大的關注該集團是以匯款洗錢詐欺不法所得超過90億但是法院將機房的20名共犯分別判處6個月到1年2個月徒刑而且全部緩刑這是社會的期待嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10847.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10866.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
媒體報告說尤其過去我們都知道台灣人詐騙輸出台灣人在國外詐欺被押解回台的案例多數的這些刑期都在數個月到一兩年不等而且大多都能夠一顆罰金讓這個辦案人員基層的員警這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10872.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10899.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
不知如何是好,尤其我們民眾也是一樣啦。與其是說要押回受審,但事實上回到台灣就是一種享受啦,等於是回來享福啦。我想請問主委長還有我們這個次長齁,還有副署長,就是說司法對於詐騙案件作出的回應,是不是都在打臉執法人員?那個可能是請司法部來,謝謝,請正式,嘗試嘗試。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10901.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10925.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
委員提到的其實是我們審判結果的問題了就是法院他的良心不符合民眾期待的問題但良心的問題他基本上是每一個司法院主管也是法官他的核心事項法務部不敢過問但就法務部的執掌來講對法院的判決檢察官是有監督的責任所以對法院的判決過低或良心過低我們要求檢察官在良心的時候在法院論告的時候必須要把相關的良心因子 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10926.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10943.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
市長您的意思是說因為這個要求的檢測官在判刑的是法官我們基層的嚴謹就是不敢顧問不敢多加要求這樣我們要怎麼辦?我們一萬領就領不完啊對不對?你抓越多他放越多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10944.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10962.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
對,制度設計上法院判決檢察官是要監督他的判決,所以他判決...這沒有錯,制度是這樣沒有錯對,我們檢察官會提起上訴這不能要求嗎?我們現在就是在要求法官法官還有檢察官一樣我們都在要求說從2020詐騙案件2.3萬件,今有42.5億2022年已經變2.9萬件,今有69.6億但是這個可能是有揭露的,更多的或許我們不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10970.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10995.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我覺得應該是更多啦多到我們可能不知道的一個情況2023年一整年被詐騙的金額累積88.78億是創史上新高按照這個發展我想破百億今年可能就破百億了啦那像這種情況說這些詐欺的還有洗錢的正犯共犯不管犯了幾條罪都會被淨和成一條罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10996.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11015.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
會被禁了整條罪只要坦白然後最後法院再用緩刑的方式讓這些詐欺洗錢讓他們免去牢獄之災預算邊一邊抓了又放人一根罰金緩刑更不要說啦齁這個加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11016.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11030.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
詐欺明明有組織犯罪的這些法條可以用不去適用新的法條然後法定刑是一年以上七年以下這些詐騙的都是集團式的一個加重詐欺罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11031.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11056.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
如果用新的法條怎麼可能每個都侵犯?是不是這樣子?各位報告就要區分他詐欺集團他是人頭賬戶的判決還是一般車手的判決一般車手的判決現在法院大概量刑都大概一年到兩年佔80%對對對所以我要講你剛剛講的說罪行不相當嘛對不對他所犯的罪他這個可是判的刑期相對的就是欸?沒兇動 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11058.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11081.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以我們認為說我們就是來檢討說要怎麼樣來要求甚至於如果說法律不夠周延是不是要修法對不對那草案是不是要送過來立法院我相信這個全部的不分草原都會支持各位報告事實上我們在打詐專法就這個刑罰的威嚇性這部分我們是要研擬如何加強刑罰威嚇性那法務部你們可不可以要求檢察官從眾求刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11082.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11089.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這沒有問題這跟委員報告在檢察官這個階段檢察官徵查起訴這個階段我們事實上要求檢察官從重的來求刑還有能夠符合羈押的要件檢察官也要盡量的羈押所以我們去年度羈押的比例已經超過前年度將近一倍的比例了 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11107.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11126.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
對於這些犯罪集團我們絕對不能手軟你基層的員警拼命的在外面都在抓這些詐騙的人員但是抓一個放兩個我們看到說你們的那個報告裡面有分別都有提到說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11128.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11129.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11139.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11160.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
表示犯罪率一直在增加、詐騙集團數一直在增加、被詐騙、被害人也一直在增加。所以我們不是說抓越多人我們越開心,這表示說現在我們的國情、我們社會上每天被這些詐騙集團、詐騙的這些受害人是相當的多,有些是沒有浮上來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11161.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11183.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
另外我們知道因為很多的資料時間也不夠不只是我們知道的這些詐騙包括從租屋平台還有我們手機上面的這些借錢剛剛王世堅委員也有提到這個用融資集團跟詐騙集團合作假投資然後再讓詐騙集團後面來追上來討賬 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11191.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11219.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
來討債這一些部分我相信我希望我們所有的執法機關我們法務部你們要要求然後呢一定要負起這個責任好不好因為我們台灣我們所有的國人尤其像我們剛剛提到的這個租屋的平台不管什麼都可以騙包括連租屋都被騙騙錢的騙感情的連遊戲帳號還有很多電子支付電商平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11219.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11219.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11249.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11270.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
現在質詢請吳立華部委員主席好,有請金管會、數發部、警政署黃主委請李政次 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11276.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11279.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
有一個組織叫全球防詐聯盟GASO根據他2023年的一個詐騙報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11295.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11295.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11316.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11340.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
有66%的民眾認為他們的經濟是顯著的受到影響那我作為一個民意代表我們也經常接受這樣的一個陳情那像這個是上個禮拜他特別跟我提到說他的朋友那麼有加入一個投信的LINE叫做FPS主委您聽過FPS嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11342.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11357.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
對不起沒有聽過對那我也自己上網查也查不到但是他宣稱他有受到金管會的一個那個監督那這個人其實他蠻嚴重的因為他現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11357.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11386.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
因為需要用到錢錢提不出來所以他就有親生的念頭那他們是透過這樣的一個Light Ad就被騙然後錢就一直出去好那我現在要講的是說像這樣的情況的層出不窮那受詐騙的人說一句實在話也非常的痛苦名不聊生幾乎大家都有遇過這樣的狀況那這邊有一個一指付的APP他在去年的9月曾經呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11387.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11401.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
各自外洩那當時金管會說要查可是我們看到上個月依止付Google Play的評論還是有民眾被倒刷所以想要請教主委金管會的一個調查情形到底如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11403.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11404.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
為什麼當時我們看到經濟日報、金管會說要釐清? |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11424.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11444.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我不曉得經濟日報是怎麼寫的,因為那個時候院裡面有協調那這個案子它的主管機關因為它是透過醫療體系的費用去用這個無現金的方式去處理那因為這個是個資還有被倒刷,所以跟金管會一點關係都沒有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11445.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11462.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
不是 我不能這樣 我是說當時的分工是衛福部是這個醫務公司的主管之中那你們有沒有主動去問衛福部調查結果如何當時有做過分工了那就是這個公司他本身他把他的這個有些資訊的東西外包給那個廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11464.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11466.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我們的詐騙金額屬於假投資的連續五年第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11480.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11504.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那金管會我們很關心到底怎麼樣來打詐那我們看到試詐的三部曲會拍影片會設網頁會做宣導但是呢我們可以看到詐騙的手法從過去幾十年前的金光黨到現在可以說是推陳出新日益狂妄那我們來看一下我們金管會做的這個影片我們就覺得很有趣 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11505.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11527.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
因為我們看到三個月前的發布的這部影片他的觀看次數是1.5萬次那另外這個三年前的這個影片呢他的觀看次數是1.8萬次所以我們想要繼續的來追蹤啊因為會不會是因為去買廣告推播嗎會不會到1.5萬次然後就緩慢的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11528.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11544.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
到底是屬於自然吸引人來看還是用買的用廣告推播我們不得而知但是我們會繼續的來觀察可是我們看到這些影片他僅僅只有投放在單一的社群平台就是YouTube |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11545.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11558.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們去查Facebook沒有上架金管會沒有那這個IG沒有開設帳號這個Trust也沒有開設帳號那我就想要問一下金管會不知道有沒有更好的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11560.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11561.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
主委我會這樣子問喔我是因為像前年我們有柬埔寨 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11585.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11606.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
結果呢在一個月之內好多好多人來跟我澄清說他們去柬埔寨回不來結果呢我請外交部來外交部呢說哎呀這個其實早在去年前年就有發生他們說他們有做宣導我說宣導給我看就是類似這樣的東西沒有人知道啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11606.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11619.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
沒有人知道我的意思是說我們既然所有的部會要一起來投入打仗我們可能要去想一想哪裡做得不好如何精進要有策進作為這樣可以嗎可以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11622.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11641.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我想金管會這邊其實有在做公佈名單可是我們看一下金管會的這個防詐專區我們看到他公佈的名單是散落在四個檔案夾然後要下載才能夠一一檢視那我相信主委您應該也不認同這種做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11642.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11665.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
提供名冊自己查太辛苦而且有6個單位6個網頁真的看不到對民眾來講我們最希望的是一次查詢然後不是要各自的單位來各自消化預算所以想要再看一個警政署這邊內政部有一個165的全民防騙網結果我們上面看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11666.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11678.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
有兩萬多筆的LINE ID然後要民眾大海撈針啊我就也想要問一下我們警政署齁如果我隨便講一個AY89023這個ID齁您有沒有辦法馬上查出來欸 沒有警政署的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11687.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11703.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那個直接可以直接按下去直接可以縮形確定嗎是好那我們來看一下喔165這個Line8帳號您說按下去嘛那我再來查一個KKYA8他是寫上無通報紀錄喔可是我剛剛講的那個兩萬筆165的網頁卻有這個詐騙帳號喔兩個是對不起來的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11710.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11728.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
要不要回去再重新檢視一下那我其實要講的是說可不可以請警政署、數發部、金管會你們有沒有可能合作來設立一個網站然後供民眾一站式的查詢做這件事很困難嗎有沒有很困難數發部可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11736.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11755.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
公文報告技術上都沒有問題我們可以來協助但是資料源就要看各部會的法權線能不能提供那是不是至少一個月內給我這樣的一個報告你們至少要研議我沒問題一個月那再請教一下警政署請問如果錢包遺失了要先報警好還是先掛屍好 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11758.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11773.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以錢包是我們現在的一般的錢包嗎?是這個嗎?我這個是真的問題,就是錢包真的掉了。這不是腦筋急轉彎。就是如果是掉掉了就要報警了。你覺得要報警好嗎?對不對?好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11774.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11788.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我們來看一下在我們的發卡機構有一個信用卡定型化的契約範本第17條它上面是這樣說應盡速以電話或其他方式通知發卡機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11790.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11792.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
主委,您覺得這樣的一個要點,您覺得好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11815.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11834.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這應該是一般的通例本來就是應該先去跟法卡機構通知那必要的時候可能要向警察機關那實際上是這樣的啦民眾不是忍者啦分身罰術啦不會引分身之術那掛屍就是要跟倒刷搶時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11836.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11851.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那報案我也想要問一下像我剛才那個FPS投信詐騙我想問一下那個問警政署好了有沒有成功的案例可以把錢追回來我們當然有成功的案例把錢追回來那你們要不要在網路上面去公布這些成功案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11862.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11888.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
因為很多的陳情人會問我們啊能不能把錢追回來我也不知道啊到底那些錢追回來他是怎麼追回來的可以讓我們知道嗎錢包丟是裡面的證件他其實我不是講錢包我現在講的是類似這種頭信詐騙電信詐騙就看我們在偵辦的時候擴大了擴大了這些不法所得我也希望金管會有沒有成功的案例把錢抓回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11890.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11908.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
信用卡對盜刷有啊?有齁?不是,就是至少只付就對了?好,可以公布嗎?因為很多人會問我現在是說因為掛屍就是跟盜刷搶時間那如果我們每一個人他的錢包掉了結果裡面有各式各樣的卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11909.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11929.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那他要去掛屍又加上我們的客服的這些電話很難打我相信各位都知道有的要40分鐘有的要一個小時半個小時那像網路都有去公佈像台新要40分鐘富邦30分鐘華南27分鐘那如果他裡面有這麼多的卡他到底要打到什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11930.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11951.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
所以現在金管會如果是提倡普惠金融我們也希望要來做便利金融那建立這種一戰式的信用卡金融卡的一個掛屍機制所以本席在這邊要求金管會是不是可以來研究一下成立一個一戰式的金融卡信用卡的掛屍機制可不可以 諸位 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11953.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11978.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我們來研究一下,不過現在好像一天之內都可以保護投資人,我們來研究好不好?謝謝主委那速發部警政署金管會這邊那我們是希望說建立一個民眾一站式的查詢的這樣的一個LINE ID或LINE ID還有假投資公司的名稱建立搜尋機制讓我們的民眾如果他有接受到這樣的一個詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11979.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11979.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12013.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12014.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12027.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12055.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
主席各位出列席官員大家好主席可否請幾位朱澤民主計長然後第二階段再請黃天牧主委還有國家通訊委員會翁副主委以及法務部黃次長請正署李副署長來速發部的李正次首先先請主計長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12061.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12072.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
現在人民感覺都很痛苦一個就是萬物起漲、電價飆漲為什麼政府要在這個關鍵的時刻還帶頭來漲價主計長有沒有什麼方法可以喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12083.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12088.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
政府的威信還有人民對政府的期待如果因為生活不下去萬物飆漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12105.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12106.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那這個過錯,主計長你要扛嗎?主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12134.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12163.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
您的意思就是說,電價漲,所以物價不會漲?還是都沒什麼關係啦?沒有啦,電價漲,物價當然會漲,因為它有一定的權數啊,民生用電的權數是佔1.2個百分點啊,所以它電價漲那個權,可是我們一方面也要考慮到台電的成本。台電是你們應該要檢討的,今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12164.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12180.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
你又要補助他多少?過去累計的補助已經4千億了。我請問主席長,你快要離開了。人將離開,你就喊我要離開,讓我很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很很 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12184.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12186.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
期延已散。對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12200.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12224.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
在為人民爭取福利的立場你要多講一些好的事情嘛為人民來把關嘛你如果說這次臺電開始飆漲那你明年要不要補助後年咧跟那個委員報告一下因為你每年都補助那個要還電價的成本如果他不成本的話臺電的虧損是很嚴重的臺電虧損如果超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12229.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12230.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
拜託主計長,人民犯了什麼錯? |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12249.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12265.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
每次都是要從人民的身上卡油沒有卡油跟其他國家比較我們電費的上漲是比較低的謝謝天價比較低新加坡有沒有漲有日本有沒有漲有比我們高 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12266.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12266.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
主計長． |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12292.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12314.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
你覺得台灣民眾薪水的上漲,你的說法是說台灣老百姓都同意嗎?開心嗎?每個人都不會對自己的薪水同意的,對。對。看到台灣跟新加坡相比啊,台灣人民的心裡是在淌血的啊。為什麼人家薪水漲了兩三倍,然後你把電價拿A跟B亂亂倒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12316.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12317.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
台灣人民就變得不幸福了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12342.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12342.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
五年前盧洛漢議員幾塊錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12363.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12364.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12380.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12382.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
如果電價飆漲,帶動滷肉飯漲到65、70塊以上,主計長? |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12397.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12422.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
小商店他要適當的反映成本我們完全認同這個是一個市場行為的所以我們這一次那個經濟部的方案裡面對小商店700度以下的只有漲3%所以爐頭飯不會漲喔?我不講這個這樣推論啦才是不是老百姓他擔心的就是我每天吃的雞蛋最近又漲3塊主計長每公斤漲3塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12428.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12440.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
還有其他啦你這個計程車以後會不會漲?高鐵會不會漲?捷運會不會漲?你通通都漲的話民眾怎麼辦啊?人民會呢?主計長電價本席在這裡嚴重的警告電價如果飆漲10%以上我這裡保證啊所有萬物一定會接漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12457.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12470.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
如果漲的話,主計長你要不要負責?那個是一個市場現象,而且是要反映成本我主計總處是做一些統計、做一些預測的如果政府沒有妥善的照顧老百姓的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12481.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12482.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
主計長你講的很好喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12511.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12521.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我們全民就相信你你的意思就是不會出狀況可是如果出狀況的話你記得本席今天跟你提醒的話接下來請其他剛剛第二輪的相關首長主委你好我想台灣就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12536.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12564.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
詐騙何其多?詐騙在台灣天天有對於民眾現在最厭惡的第一個就是物價飆漲第二個就是詐騙何其多主委在你周邊的幾位首長都是可以說是身懷絕技而且都是學有專精 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12565.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12573.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那麼面對今天所有的這些各單位你有沒有信心把詐騙把它全部消滅掉?那你有沒有信心把這個詐騙的比率直線的往下降? |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12593.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12600.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
其實在我們這個想法裡面有那麼多的單位都站出來了為什麼還會有詐騙我們在他的太陽裡面第一個大概就是金融的詐騙很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12621.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12631.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
第二個我們請那個內政部好了請問李副署長是在這個太陽裡面最多的是哪三樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12632.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12651.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
假投資詐欺,它發生數佔了差不多3成8,財損數差不多6成8,近7成。第二個是網路購物詐欺,就是夜市廣告這一個部分,這個佔28%左右。另外這第三名是我們的解析分析付款,也是佔了20%幾。 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12652.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12654.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
請問你們這幾年成立總共花了多少錢?你們這幾年的預算總共是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12674.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12699.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
去年的公務預算是60幾今年是73億好就100多億包括警政署包括金管會包括法務部加一加好幾百億結果你們打不贏那個詐騙集團你們今天開會以後可不可以保證有沒有信心以後詐騙的案件會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12701.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12727.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
關於委員報告我們報告上面已經有講我們負責的產業我們已經都讓他在減少那其他的部分我們一定跟所有的部會一起聯防想辦法讓他降低你們所有相關機關裡面有沒有人跟詐騙集團掛鉤的我相信沒有我們一定沒有啦我相信其他部會也不會有有沒有審查過這個可能要問警政或者是這個我沒有辦法問誰我們沒有資格去審查其他部會啦好那有誰可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12730.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12760.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
理事長你剛剛不是說講誰嗎?警政是不是?我說這個可能要因為這個是人事查核或者是背景查核這個不是數位部的職權科技好 那要問誰?法務你們裡面有沒有跟詐騙集團掛鉤的?不然怎麼會有那麼多詐騙呢?當開來每個地方你就節流節流管制管制就不可能有詐騙了嘛有詐騙手機出來你就把它關掉嘛是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12761.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12790.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
委員我們是負責查緝的部分那我手機關掉的部分要前端那你就有問題了像剛剛建委有提到啊帳戶每年有50億、70億那我請問一下那次長你覺得一個平常人帳戶有60億、70億的這個金額進出正不正常委員這不正常那你就把所有不正常全部都關掉啊委員這涉及到帳戶監理的問題那你就監理啊監理誰來監理監理不是法務部的職責是哪一個部 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12792.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12818.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
黃主委這個賬戶本來就應該在配合防詐上去處理不過這也要兼顧正常經濟活動要做適度的判決這裡面會出現漏洞就是有共犯結構今天早上委員在講有銀行裡面涉嫌跟外面的詐騙集團掛鉤有沒有這個情況有一家你不能有一家有一家可能就沒抓到有兩家三家 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12819.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12847.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
是不是在座最後因為時間關係大家有沒有信心可以把這個詐騙全部消滅掉有信心的請舉手你們現場都是中華民國大家最信任的高官我們對你們很敬佩請問現場幾位官員對於要把詐騙全部消滅掉有沒有信心願意努力去做的請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12849.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12849.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
請李英秀委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12877.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12899.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我是不是可以請主計長、黃主委、我們法務部的長賜、我們內政部的理副署長以及刑事警察局的黃副局長。主計長我先延續一下剛才羅明才我們召委的議題。你覺得這一波電價漲之後,你覺得物價會不會漲? |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12908.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12919.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
在一般的情況之下他是物價會長只是說因為經濟部他設計得很細緻他的漲幅已經在盡量做到那個最低的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12921.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12928.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
您覺得民眾的感受度會如何?因為經濟部做出來的梗圖是沒差因為烘焙店只會漲兩塊錢每個月只會漲兩塊錢牛肉麵只會漲幾塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12938.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12963.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
最後這些成本會不會轉嫁到民眾消費身上對那個因為民生他那個是民生所以說他必然的會有一個漲價那個所以經濟部他設置的很細緻在小商店的話主計長我提醒你齁你應該回去你剛才講說應該會漲只是到最後怎麼漲不曉得你回去告訴王美華 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12964.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12988.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
因為是要按照道理說你對於通膨的狀況物價會漲的狀況我覺得你應該在整個行政院裡面你應該那個敏感度是比誰都還要清楚王美花說他會請業者不要因為電價漲就隨便亂漲你回去跟他講清楚到底有沒有用人民的感受度到底會如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12990.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13017.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
會不會轉嫁到民眾的消費身上?用恐嚇的就有用嗎?我想那個王部長他不是恐嚇啦他的意思應該是說不要這個惡意的仗啦有沒有用?那個是道德勸說有時候也是一個很好的一個策略謝謝道德勸說 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13018.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13042.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
下個月我們就會知道你也傻笑你也笑了一下你就知道下個月到底有沒有用了這個錯誤的能源政策造成今天台電到今年年底要虧損4000億我們或許能源配比不要配比的這麼糟糕台電不會虧損那麼多這個是我要講的重點錯誤的能源政策配比造成長期台電的虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13044.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13071.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我同意電價可以有一些適時的反應但是民進黨錯誤的能源政策造成台電虧損4千億我們每一年政府都要撥譜民眾變成每一年薪水漲的幅度來不及全部被通膨吃掉了這個就是我覺得今天人民很苦政府無感最大的原因好我要回來我今天的議題主計長你可以請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13073.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13081.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
物價通膨人民很痛苦在物價通膨之下薪水沒有漲之下詐騙越來越多民眾也很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13082.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13111.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
每一個詐騙案背後的數字是人民一生累積下來的積蓄每一個數字詐騙的數字背後代表是人民的血汗錢我想在現場你們比誰都同意於此我今天在質詢的同時我每個禮拜我辦公室都有接到很多被詐騙的訊息問我怎麼辦去報案之後大家都問我說委員錢可不可以追得回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13112.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13138.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我都只能告訴他恐怕很難我想在現場每一位包括我們金管會的主委比誰都清楚追不回來很不容易但是我要提就是說我們現在詐騙手法當中有三大區塊一種是用假投資一種是網路拍賣另外一種是解除分期付款假投資現在是詐騙的第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13139.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13160.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那這些假投資背後都是用民眾人性的貪念也好或者是藉由民眾害怕恐懼的弱點來去做詐騙的行為那詐騙的方式譬如說有賣未上市的股票啦或者是投資外匯啦或者賣這個零股塔等等都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13162.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13175.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我們民進黨政府從2016年成立詐騙中心、22年成立詐騙國家隊到2023年打詐辦公室等等到底有沒有具體的作用?誰可以回答我?有沒有具體的成果?誰可以回答我? |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13180.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13184.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
但是你們解決的速度我不要說破案的速度你們在努力還跟不上這些犯罪集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13207.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13208.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
臺灣是詐騙之島幾位在現場這幾位我說的沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13225.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13243.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以包括我有接到幾個陳情案有一位是交金融的大學教授在我辦公室上周他到銀行內的銀行去提領了1700萬分9次他被銀行的人攔下來說先生你不要領那麼多他還有一本小冊子 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13243.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13248.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
另外一個案子就是從老先生老太太退休70幾歲這是上個禮拜他從賴的股票裡面賴的這個股票詐騙社團裡面被騙了300多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13272.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13297.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
有問我,我跟他講恐怕很難,我其實不太願意跟他講,很難啊,我說先去報案我們想辦法,但是我心裡知道不容易。所以,這些問題幾位在現場四位,我剛剛講了,這些數字背後都是人民的血汗錢。這是誰的問題?金管會的問題?警政署的問題?誰可以回答我? |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13299.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13300.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
沒有人敢回答喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13331.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13354.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那委員行政院各部會都是在努力了我想今天提給委員會的報告大家看得出來大家最近這一年做的事情跟今年要做的事那當然委員對我們的期待我們責無旁貸要好好再再做好那那我們有一個打詐專法要出來4月會不會出來這個專法不是我們金管會的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13356.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13380.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們今天專案報告報告講的就是大家都有關係啊不是跨部會的合作嗎這個案子打在專法如果沒有跨部會的合作也沒有用啊是打在專法在我們行政院羅政委在整合啊我們各部會那現在由我們內政部來四月會出來那現在已經立定今天最近有立定密集的在三月份跟四月初有五次的會議這個會期會完成三讀那可能我們現在要提出來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13385.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13406.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
在我們跨部會的一個草案的擬定一定是4月份建書能夠把它定稿。行政院有沒有目標這個會期要完成三讀?你只要回答有或沒有,你回答我,不要在我的時間。我們在努力當中。我們在努力,很快,我們現在...每天有那麼多被受害人被詐騙耶。會。那這個案子有沒有在兩個政府兩個總統交接過程,這個是不是賴清德是不是要這個事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13414.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13441.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
有沒有在過渡時間有沒有交代說這個會計要通過?還是等520之後再通過?我們跨部會的我們這個這個專案 我很積極的很急的也在在草擬這個草案 這個打詐專法這個草案沒有日期?沒有目標?我們一定 我們在Cover的時候 一定到4月份要提出來了4月份提出來 那也不知道這個會計會不會通過好 我要提 那我要問一下Line Ad齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13442.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13448.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我剛剛上網查了這些是詐騙帳號你們都有公佈上面才90個人看而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13451.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13474.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
現在透過詐騙就是投資啊或又透過LINE的我們上次我問過主委也知道透過Google或Meta我們現在都有實名制那臉書也有實名制現在LINE的部分怎麼處理第一個是我的問題第二這些詐騙的LINE的ID才90個人看欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13476.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13489.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
現在透過LINE的投資詐騙也很氾濫耶那你們公布這些帳號才90個人看後面有什麼具體的作為嗎?可能有什麼具體的作為嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13493.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13518.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
關於觀看人數過少的這個部分我們會再加強來做宣導然後另外如果查詢的部分我們在165的LINE的APP裡面可以公民眾來查詢這個是另外一個可以查詢的管道以上我覺得因為我們之前都有要求實名制包括Google包括臉書包括Meta我們都慢慢要求實名制至於LINE的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13520.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13547.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
怎麼去跟總公司溝通減少這些詐騙的LINE的ID我覺得是目標然後另外我最後一個因為現在我們有關於虛擬貨幣的詐騙行為非常多但是在偵辦的過程當中我們很多檢察官也好很多檢察事務官、調查官也好對於這種新興的詐騙因為我們過去辦的都是傳統的案子對於這種新興的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13548.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13568.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
不是那麼清楚所以才造成說之前有一個個案是最後被移送了7次所以這個犯罪人沒有被處分我覺得對於這個我看到這個新聞我是非常訝異所以我鼓勵我認為未來我們的辦案人員調查人員裡面應該要有更多的譬如說要有拿到一些證照來當主力來辦案 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13570.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13587.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那這些有拿證照我覺得也應該給一些獎勵比如說分案的案子它可以少一點鼓勵大家多去拿這些證照對於這些金融犯罪新興金融犯罪我們希望鼓勵他們多拿一些證照那同時我們要獎勵他們是我們可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13587.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13602.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13602.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13623.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
否則我們現在全部都抓不到頭抓到的都是下游的車手下游的車手就跟免洗筷一樣對於犯罪首腦來講那些集團來講找到斷點反正詐騙車手隨時都還可以找新的人來但是詐騙集團這些首腦永遠抓不到上層這是現在詐騙犯罪最大的問題你們同意我的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13624.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13638.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以無論證照也好、證照鼓勵也好在內部調查官、檢察官證照鼓勵也好金管會可以給更多的授課你們不要去講說以前授課我們都有授課你們那些授課其實都是簽個到就走人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13639.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13665.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
根文報告檢察官的部分事實上我們這個金融證照制度已經實行之多年了但進到制度的課程內容當然會隨著這個委員報告的就是我覺得要鼓勵多一點人對於金融證照去拿這些證照那你的獎勵同時也要有對那委員提到的檢免這個分案的部分是涉及到每一個地檢署內部事務的分配問題由地檢署的檢察長去決定那內部事務該檢或不檢授權由地檢署檢察長因地質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13665.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13687.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
然後對於犯罪我最後一個要求30秒對於犯罪上游這些人如果抓到車手我們有沒有可能比照這個毒品的危害防治條例如果他供出上游在刑度上我們可能給一些寬鬆的刑度那這樣我們才有機會抓到上游的人上游的人全部都抓不到你抓一到下面的車手他把他當免洗塊有什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13688.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13688.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
接下來請謝一鳳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13718.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13724.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
謝謝主席。我想要請主計長。問一次少一次對不對主計長。請主計長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13732.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13760.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
主席長我聽說那個早上你已經說了我們因為你上次說是沒有4月份的那個物價你沒有算到那個4月份物價調整的那個那你說現在預估全年的CPI上漲的是2.03%嗎?對不對?是的這個是我們內部的估計並沒有對外發布沒有對外發布?早上的新聞就已經出來了欸那樣子啊那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13761.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13784.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
他們大概不知道程序因為我們的一個物價的一個發布要經過國民所得評審委員會國民所得評審委員會要到5月才會開會喔是喔我剛才看到那個新聞他已經出來是2.03喔那可能因為你5月份不在了嘛所以他不想要等到那時候對謝謝謝謝委員所以我5月份不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13787.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13794.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
可是我還是很想要請教主計長到底CPI在什麼樣情況下有可能會破2.5%? |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13797.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13816.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
他是有可能欸就目前國內的趨勢以及世界經濟的趨勢是不會除非說有一個在經濟學上講的不確定因素像油價的那個那個所謂的激烈的上漲啊或者說國際有金融轟爆啊那個才可能有這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13816.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13818.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
目前目前並沒有說9月要再上漲目前沒有這個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13839.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13849.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
的確還有另外一點就是GDP的問題你們都說了就是GDP的是3.43%左右對這個是國內機構目前的估測都是在3點幾3點幾外國機構還有估我們4點幾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13860.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13885.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
還有更高的是不是?對對對那如果更高的情況下那有可能我們用電的需求會增加嗎?對不過我們現在國內因為那個所謂節能的措施的一個影響以及企業界他的綠電或者是購買綠電或者節能措施事實上會不會所謂像預估的那麼增加是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13887.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13901.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
但是如果未來的石油的價格上漲原油價格上漲的確有可能使得GDP的那個預測的數字怎麼可能連國內的3.5%都3點多%都達不到了也不可能到外國機構所謂的4點多%對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13904.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13929.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
對,我們現在國內的機構大部分不管中華中央或者是中央銀行都是在3點幾在同一個時間大家估測是一樣的事實上IMF也都跟那個標普全球也都是估計我們今年大概3點幾好,謝謝喔我只是因為想要問你我怕以後問不到你而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13930.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13930.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
請黃朱衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13945.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13960.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
主委,我也看到了喔,你就那個ETF過熱的問題,你也提到了,你說未來三個管理的要件就是資訊的完整性,投信業者把發行的ETF賣給適合的投資人, |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13963.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13977.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
其實這都非常空泛什麼叫適合的投資人第二個在6月底前投信業者跟網紅合作的合作行銷的治律規範什麼就是規範的範圍是如何因為網紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13980.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13981.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
今天早上你說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14010.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14025.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
兩萬點你說股市上兩萬點你說注意風險省省選股啊那我也知道啊身為金融就是身為主管機關你是不介入這個股市的炒作的啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14027.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14040.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
後面那兩個字是交易啦,不是操作。對,我是說你不能夠介入嘛,你應該只是提醒方式。我們沒有介入啦,我上年快四年都是講這八個字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14042.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14064.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
對對對我知道我知道我知道你不可以介入這個就是你不可以介入市場交易這我清楚可是我在講的就是這三個要件你怎麼樣子處理跟您報告也許我講不清楚其實就是就是你要知道你的客戶的風險未納你要讓客戶知道這個商品的特質包括他可能產生的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14066.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14087.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
網紅部份因為他是一個新興的一個中介我知道有很多投信公司間接直接跟網紅有合約但是網紅在宣導的時候民眾不知道他後面跟投信的關係他與他的專業不知道後面也許跟投信有對價關係將來這個怎麼規範我們希望儘快公會提出來一套可行的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14089.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14102.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
第三個其實就是大家關心的眾多的ETF﹐如果它下面的成分股集中在某些個股的時候﹐我們怎麼樣管理它的風險﹐有沒有大家關心的集中度的問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14103.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14126.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
對我覺得在這三個ETF目前在市場過熱的情況下還有在就是央行升息大家對於這一種就是高股息的相關的就是當然就會特別的關注那我認為金管會一定要把這相關的規範做清楚才能夠讓民眾尤其是高高齡的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14127.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14129.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這是我們的責任,金融人的期許。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14158.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14181.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好,因為時間關係,那我們等一下現場就是發言單寄到鄭天才委員,現在還有楊瓊英委員,那到楊瓊英委員,那因為大家都還沒用餐,楊瓊英也在,換一下。好,下一位執行請黃國昌黃委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14193.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14201.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
謝謝主席。麻煩有請金管會的黃天牧主任以及法務部的黃榮慶次長。法務部黃次長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14211.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14232.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
兩位好我想IMB吸金詐騙的案子兩位應該都很熟悉現在進行的階段臺北地方法院第一審準備要聽被害人的心聲了聽被害人的心聲目前統計的人數不曉得可能要租到哪裡的大禮堂才有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14234.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14262.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
來進行但這個案子的發生我從還不在立法院的時候開始追蹤到現在我一直在思考的是我們未來要怎麼做才能夠再預防我現在倒不是今天主要的目的我先讓兩位知道啦不是在追究什麼責任但是每一步到底怎麼發生走到今天我們如果沒有辦法誠實的面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14263.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14286.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
就不可能有智慧的去思考未來我想我先把我的基本立場先說明但一開始我要先請教一下主委那個時候有被害人一個台大財經妹出來然後有委員質詢你然後你說有網友在質疑他是不是台大財經系的這樣不好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14288.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14313.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
好不好,我有想事後看這個對話,我想我會改進。謝謝委員。你會改進嗎?因為那個臺大財經妹啊,我跟她接觸過好幾次。今天我給你公開一個場合,她已經把畢業證書秀出來了。你要不要跟她致意一下?我可以,如果有需要的話。沒有,你現在公開就跟她致意啊。我想,我是看PTT上面的話書做的回應。那如果有不到的地方跟她致歉,謝謝。OK,好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14315.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14330.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
因為2016年那個時候其實包括我包括羅民財委員我們其實都一起在財政委員會我們一開始的時候一直在追因為那時候P2P的事情已經開始了所以那個時候你們是擔任副主委嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14332.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14353.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
是是嘛那我也問你也問了詹亭臻局長說你們到底什麼時候規範要出來那時候大家都在等喔有時候要立專法有時候要修法後來問那個時候的主委王立琳經管會的立場是開放但必須要有專法來管後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14355.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14378.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
到了另外一位主委丁克華的時候他的看法也是一樣甚至那個時候林全在施政方針裡面也說他不需要管理到底是在什麼時間點整個政策完全轉向然後把P2P認為說這件事情不需要由警管會來管理把它看成一般民間私人的借貸就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14379.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14394.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
因為我發生了這件事情以後我一直回想整件事情我回去那時候看我記得我們那時候財委會的討論是要推專法要不要要修法但到一個特定的時間點的時候政策突然轉向了 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14395.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14414.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
跟當初林全乃至於之前不管是您當副主委還是王立林當主委還是丁克華當主委政策立場都不一樣了到底是什麼時間點基於什麼樣的因素任何P2P不需要透過監管會這邊或是透過專法或修法來管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14416.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14443.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
請教一下黃主委報告委員其實在政黨輪替之前的確銀行局有討論到專法但是在2016政黨輪替之後那後來的主委也討論過幾個方案後來決定沒有採專法的方式但很奇怪那如果是這樣子的話林全為什麼在他施政方針報告這樣寫呢他沒有講我不瞭解因為他沒有講要專法那個時候就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14445.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14450.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
政黨輪替之後的主委他決定他不要用這案法的方式我們會內他們有討論對那時候你有參與討論嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14455.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14481.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我不記得應該是有我不曉得在什麼場合有討論我這樣說好了就是說在政策上我還是很誠懇的建議金管會這件事情真的要好好的重新思考我為什麼會這樣子說呢我進一步帶主委看這個是我在追蹤整個IMB案從2016年我一路向到2023年臺北地檢署起訴的整個大事記 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14483.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14510.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
我們在2016年的時候那個時候法務部的調查局有立案2017年的時候金管會含附法務部調查局桃園市調處去年IMB的案子起來以後我知道金管會大概發了兩次到三次的澄清說我們從來沒有說他沒有違反銀行法我們說的是要檢調機關自己去認定主委我有沒有理解錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14511.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14539.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
沒有其實包括你有詢詢過我們因為他是形式的認定不是監管會能夠處理的這個就是我今天同時請兩位上來我要跟你們深入探討的因為當桃園市調處接到檢舉的時候開始做筆錄的時候請兩位看一下那個時候不法吸金的金額是257億喔等到去年他整個沒有辦法支撐崩盤的時候已經到90億喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14540.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14559.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我這段時間一直在思考的事情是我們在管制上如何提早發現提早預防因為從被害人的角度上面來講我必須要說實在的現在是哭訴無門錢要拿回來的機率為乎其為大概拿一張債權憑證回家貼在牆壁上看著債權憑證流眼淚 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14565.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14586.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
那如果說我們今天第一個金管會認為這個地方不要去管制那第二個就銀行法有沒有不法息金永遠要到減掉後階段再來處理的話那等於是什麼?等於是未來這樣子的風險會繼續存在喔主委您聽得懂我的意思嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14588.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14613.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我們中間有協助P2P業者由廉珍成立第二個徵信中心要他在過程中能夠有得到徵信的資訊我們等一下繼續往下看主任你們說你們從來沒有表聲IMB沒有違反銀行法下一張請您仔細看這個是法務部調查局桃園市調處當初發給 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14617.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14641.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
臺灣地檢署的函這個函是被害人給我的被害人他們看了以後他們說什麼法務部、桃園市調處說的是金函詢金管會認為沒有辦法認定違反銀行法29條之一也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14642.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14670.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
金管會有金管會的觀點但我今天要跟主委報告的是當初這個案子為什麼桃園市調處把腳步停下來他們真的是看到金管會的函他們真的是看到金管會的函才停下來我本來以為說他們會不會是為了卸責在媒體上面這樣放話但是當我看到桃園市調處給桃園地檢署的檢察官這個函的時候我開始相信了 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14671.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14697.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
而且這個是在案發以前喔這個不是等到2023年整個事情爆發了以後大家開始推卸責任這是在2022年的時候他含附桃園地檢署的檢察官就這樣講喔他們真的是因為金管會做了這樣子的回函所以怎麼樣所以他們把整個偵辦的角度給停下來了我現在齁最後只講一件事因為主席站起來了齁未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14699.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14704.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
類似這樣的事情目前還有沒有檢察官派駐在金管會? |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14705.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14730.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
一直都有有嘛一直都有那未來是不是金管會可以好好討論一下我們在處理類似的案件的時候主管機關要表達看法以前是不是可以跟金管會裡面駐會的檢察官共同來演繹怎麼樣的回函怎麼樣的回覆怎麼樣的表達不會讓第一線的檢警產生這樣的誤會 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14735.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14754.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們通常是如果要移送不移送,我們會跟朱惠簡去討論。那我可不可以講幾句話,跟您講的如果不一致請您包涵。您這邊引述那四個字上來認定,我自己好像也看過那個涵,我想確定一下是不是我們涵就是這個字,還是他引述的時候的語氣上跟我們發涵的語氣是不一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14760.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14778.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我老實跟主委講今天我在這邊質詢我真的不是來算帳我也不是來跟你討論語氣的問題你看我把那個大事記列出來我關心的只有一件事情未來如果有類似的事情我們作為掌握權力的人不管是金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14779.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14796.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
還是檢調我們如何能做到比較早期的介入比較早期的預防讓被害人越來越多這個是我今天站在這邊質詢這個題目最主要的目的所以我最後才提一個建議是說未來金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14798.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14813.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
遇到類似的事情的時候是不是可以跟派駐在金管會的檢察官先討論一下瞭解一下到底是什麼狀況而不是一個喊回去了以後反而讓檢調整個偵辦的動作全部都停下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14814.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14840.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
委員您關心我們可以在程序上在斟酌看是不是加一個這個流程但是不見得每件事情都一定要洽駐會檢因為還是有看他的案情的輕重了我老實講啦今天如果不是出了這麼大的事情我們真的沒有辦法冷靜的來看我們現在整個規範體系到底出了什麼狀況因為我們都不希望相同的事情再發生嘛我謝謝委員的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14848.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14873.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
下一位質詢請鍾嘉斌委員因為後面還有十幾個委員請大家掌握時間,謝謝主席,在場的委員先進列席的政府機關市長、官員、會長、公共夥伴、媒體、記者、女士先生邀請法務部黃次長、內政部警政署的李副署長以及數發部的李次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14885.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14909.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
次長好兩位次長好副處長好今天我們關心的詐騙猖獗那資訊犯罪規模升級檢調如何長化組織延攬房子人才來我們來請看一下請教三位這是一個關於亞洲詐騙報告2023年的每個月至少遇到一次詐騙的占比台灣在亞洲排名第四我先請教黃次長你覺得跟你的生活經驗是不是類似 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14913.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14924.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那理事長呢?你的周遭的人是不是也這樣?很接近齁?來那請問一下副署長你認為這是在台灣的頻率很高有可能每個人都遇到詐騙? |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14925.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14949.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
比例很高啦是很高嗎?是好 那我們來看一下詐騙集團它持續演進啊但是我們政府機關不動如山啦你看我們刑事警察局2006年的時候呢就成立了個科技犯罪防治中心對不對我們看一下嘛那從這樣的一個從2004 165科技犯罪防治中心成立到了賴著詐騙的刑法改一罪一罰然後呢這個詐騙集團組織犯罪我們加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14952.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14964.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
然後呢2022打詐國家隊成立了但是請問我們法務部的黃市長您覺得目前我們檢警掉有沒有對應條件的組織除了我們刑事警察局之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14965.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14966.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
法務部的組織法務部的組織法你們哪裏?企業三級機關? |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14995.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15019.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
三級機關現在就是聯政署、剿政署還有行政執行署、調查局對,那另外還有最高檢察署跟高等檢察署按照我們目前的主改啊,三級機關都稱之為署啊那為什麼調查局獨獨跟另外三個署不一樣?行政執行署、檢政署、剿政署,他就要逐一叫局是不是他改了不叫局,人家就以為他不是聯邦調查局啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15020.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15049.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
為什麼上次的主改這次的主改聯邦調查局的機關名稱沒有隨意的調整你認為什麼原因?根本沒有報告這有它歷史因素我沒有報告有它歷史因素來我們來看一下那另外法務部調查局的執掌是不是包括了這些包括了所謂的電腦犯罪防制這些對好那麼法務部的調查局的組織法它是不是設有一個知通安全處對那目前是不是有知通安全處在負責它所說的第八款的電腦犯罪防制等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15051.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15060.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
應該是那既然警政署下有個刑事警察局那你覺得未來如果法務部調查局假設啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15061.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15087.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
一般的證明為法務部調查署那有沒有可能我們比照警政署下設一個情勢警察局我們來把這個自通安全處啊擴大提升為一個資訊犯罪防治局市長你看看了,您覺得呢?跟委員報告,委員的建議當然很好但這涉及到整個國家的組織的再造沒有,沒有說國家組織再造只涉及到法務部因為你們上次主改了你們聞風不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15090.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15117.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以我要告訴你來我們往下看剛剛那個問題我幫你解答一下啦因為在主改的東西根據我們中央行政機關基準法第二條他有說他說在主改過程當中呢國防組織、住外機關、警察機關、檢察機關以及調查機關等等他的組織法律另有規定外重啟規定所以這是為什麼法務部調查局在這次的主改當中並沒有更名為調查署啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15118.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15128.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那如果根據中央行政機關基準法第6條一般嘛,三級機關就是用數跟局嘛你們要用局也是可以啦但是你們會不會考慮要來調整一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15130.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15149.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
議員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15149.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15170.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
知通安全處提升為一個類似刑事警察局這樣的做法我請教副局長你們本身刑事警察局是不是在警政署裡面你們算是市級機關嗎?是是你們有沒有發揮到強化我們警察機關犯罪偵防的能量?當然有當然有很好 聽到沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15171.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15191.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
市長,可以考慮一下嗎?跟委員報告,我們委員言語一下,但是我是覺得打詐是跟他是組織的名字是局或署,沒有必要...沒有錯!完全正確!來,下一個來,我請教李市長齁。你們速發部組織,你們有一個資通安全署的第二條,他說你們可以聘用資通安全科技的專業人才,不受到我們... |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15192.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15214.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
所謂的公務人員的任用的資格規定你們可以用聘用人員、聘用條例而且還規定你員額不超過100人你覺得這個規定對於速發部在你們強化自動安全有沒有幫助?延攬人才會幫助?有,非常有幫助有幫助那你會反對其他部會參考辦理嗎?報告委員其實這個規定是我們依照國科會來仿效的所以你不仿效國科會的好來,黃市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15217.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15235.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
你剛說了不是成立一個新的組織還有相當的人才對不對那如果說要你們來做好預防資訊犯罪打擊詐騙那你會請你們來聘用資通增防科技人才你覺得對於法務部對於調查局 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15236.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15250.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
來進行這樣的一個資訊犯罪偵訪有沒有幫助?跟我們報告因為畢竟調查局或檢察署他是偵查犯罪的機關所以他用聘用臨時人力他其實對法律執掌的部分其實有些時候會有些障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15251.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15276.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
沒有錯,聘用人員在行政機關尤其他是不是具有司法警察身份要你們去研議所以我今天提出來就叫你們去研議你們要強化你們知通偵防科技的人才我已經告訴你了你可以參考書發部資安署的組織法的方式他們也是參考國科會的對不對那我現在希望你比照知通安全署最後能結論因應網路科技詐騙的興起那法務部應該研議將調查局證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15280.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15300.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那為了設立呢資訊犯罪防治局或叫中心看你們怎麼稱呼並參考速發不知通俗的這個組織法呢讓人才金融有雙軌制度請問您願意在待會願意譬如說在一個月或三個月內給我一個報告嗎好沒問題好謝謝三個月內給你回答好謝謝兩位次長謝謝副局長也謝謝主席謝謝謝謝社會執行請鄭天才政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15332.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15353.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
主席、各位委員、有請主計長。朱主計長。委員好。主計長好。辛苦了。這個原民會有提一個花東第七原住民族部落集會所新建行動計畫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15356.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15370.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
這個之所以會提是本席還有國發會在討論這個花東基金要以公務為主基金為輔的原則然後這個提出了計畫這個會給這個主計總處主計總處的意見是提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15376.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15396.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
花蓮縣及台東縣目前已經興建完成及發包施工中的部落就業所總共有分別為116座跟101座這花蓮跟台東加起來總共217座所以你們提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15397.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15412.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個平均約700人及格享用一座基位者是否持續興建及整體設置數量合理性﹐應請人民會就興建密度、民眾使用需求及投入效益等再討為評估。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15414.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15415.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
好,我先說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15444.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15472.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
部落聚會所、文化祭儀我們會用到然後呢因為在鄉下沒有像都會區有餐廳有飯店所以我們會作為部落相關的這些結婚、喜宴包括文教活動、社會教育的活動都會在這邊進行使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15473.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15500.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
你看這個部落,這個部落就是沒有聚會所,因為這個沒有聚會所,夏天非常熱,大太陽,然後下大雨的時候淋雨,這個就是沒有部落聚會所的地方,到現在還是沒有啊。這個結婚、喜宴,搭這樣的棚子,這個再次鄉下,就是這樣,我們非常需要部落聚會所。 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15501.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15529.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
所以有了部落集會所就差很多非常非常的實用所以跟那個我們有700多個部落所以還是我是擔心因為這計畫就影響到我們整個部落集會所的一個相關的經費的一個提出那我們主計總處在這一次的這個針對華東第七原住民族部落集會所新建行動計畫裡面也提到了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15530.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15557.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
躺在支應止捷計劃將造成基金額外負擔或排擠既有計劃。考量花東基金運用範圍以符合長期產業發展事項為原則,嚴建議貴會因通盤檢討花東基金資金配置,優先配置以切實可促進花東地區永續發展的計劃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15559.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15581.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
所以這個部分跟委員報告一下我們不是說不同意因為那個經費是每年的有預算所以我們請原民會就它整個配置要檢討做整個永續發展我們並沒有說反對要做這個措施更何況我們增加了我剛才講增加了113比1要增加1.6億那它應該做一個適當的一個分配謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15587.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15593.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
最主要就是說那個行政院所核定的 人民會的相關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15595.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15621.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
就是欠缺了這些經費財會不得不從花東基金來去支應是他的一個迫切的需求所以這個部分是要請這個主計總處那個瞭解尤其是他是符合符合花東地區發展條例第8條縣主管機關針對花東地區原住民族生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15622.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15648.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
保障與文化保存因依原住民族基本法之規定擬定相關計畫他是一個文化有關的跟生活有關的部分所以這個部分要請這個主計總處未來的時候那個多徵詢一下謝謝那個委員您非常清楚一般都是要先有計畫計畫通過以後我們主計總處就會來編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15654.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15676.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
對,這個因為確實是一個部落必須要有一個機會手這個是非常非常的需要的地方而且目前還沒有部落機會手的還非常的非常的多所以在這邊要請這個主計總處未來要繼續的來支持因為這個對我們來說是一個非常非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15677.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15678.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15696.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15698.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
謝謝主席,我們請法務部、內政部跟數法部 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15725.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15748.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
法務部、內政部、數位發展部來 謝謝我想今天主席排的這個案子非常的好打詐國人最生物痛絕就是詐騙那我們先看我們常常講是說道高磨高一尺道要高一丈什麼樣的詐騙都可以用有沒有看到最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15750.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15777.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
居然搭上話題詐騙集團他們還會用白沙屯媽祖免費貼圖來詐騙一按下去之後馬上就會各司就會被騙光了那這有心人士來做有沒有掌握這樣的一個訊息警政署能不能先回覆一下內政部有沒有掌握現在因為很夯嘛粉紅超跑那有沒有人按到這樣的一個訊息然後被詐騙或所有後續的一個報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15779.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15807.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
各位委員報告這個詐欺集團都會運用最新的一個時事來引誘那這個有關這個案子我們已經知道了不過目前還沒有收到民眾的報案還沒有收到報案但是知道這個案子我們已經有掌握了好沒有錯詐騙集團都會用最新的時事議題不管那個時候2021年的時候奧運我們也講就是有搭上奧運這一波熱潮WBC的時候有搭上中華隊的熱潮現在粉紅超跑又搭上粉紅超跑的熱潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15808.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15834.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
讓大家就覺得說詐騙集團真的是變化一直在變化一直在精進啊那我們這樣有掌握了我想先請教因為本席的選區就有民眾就有問說那如果說真的不小心點了怎麼辦我們有任何機制如果告訴民眾如果說真的不小心點了有沒有自救措施來哪一個人可以回答我不管是速發部速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15836.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15864.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
委員我先跟你們報告第一個這個我們當然是先這個跟民眾推廣他還是要認明這個有認證的帳號特別是這種很明顯的是比如說白沙頓他本來就有他自己的帳號他有他認證的帳號這個非認證的帳號的東西就不要亂點第二個是相關的資訊數位部這邊有掌握第一時間有跟賴溝通請他們要下架這個事情你說數位部怎麼樣第一時間數位部也有掌握這個貼圖的狀況也有跟賴溝通請他們要下架這個假的貼圖那現在下架了嗎應該是下架了應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15865.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15884.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
能不能確認一下來但是現在本席要問的是那如果說從以前到現在我們都一直有這樣子的一個疑問這也是本席一直在講說我們數打詐1.5寫得沸沸揚揚而且每一個部會我今天看了各部會的一個資料大家都寫得非常好像在作文比賽一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15885.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15897.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
但是我現在想問民眾也想知道那如果說不小心點了有沒有任何的補救機制或者是反應機制、申訴機制哪一個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15898.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15926.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
委員我先說明這個補救機制或檢舉機制、申訴機制現在上面都有立刻檢舉在哪裡?LINE上面右上角本來就有一個檢舉帳號你這樣就是推給民眾民眾就是自己去跟業者來申訴是不是?沒有他也可以跟165兩個都可以我只是說最快的方式他直接在那個頁面就可以檢舉可以檢舉嘛但我現在問的是說民眾的個資已經被如果說照這樣子的講法是民眾個資在按下去的那一刻就已經被 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15927.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15941.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
被掌握了那有沒有任何的補救機制我用這個我自己走過一遍他理論上按下去個資不會拿到他只會拿到你的LINE帳號那你只會拿到LINE帳號對那後續怎麼他是有一個網頁要叫你填入其他的個資 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15942.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15971.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
所以就是變成是說只要民眾還沒有到填入各自的部分是沒有問題的就沒有問題對是這樣嗎是這是跟賴這邊有確認過嗎我自己走過一遍你走現在國人最沒有辦法理解的就是說已經打詐打那麼多次到底現在整個的一個訊息都是非常的模糊我覺得如果說速發部應該要很務實的也告訴國人是說到底要怎麼因應這樣子的一個詐騙形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15972.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15994.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
因為還是強調詐騙形態是五花八門會利用最新時事這也是我們一直講是說磨高一尺到應該高一丈來我再請教一下內政部今天有特別的報告有講是說在第5月你們講說詐欺被告人數111年有15000多人112年有18000多人這一些人數有沒有重複的 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16006.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16022.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
本席為什麼覺得這個問題很重要因為一萬五千多人被告一萬八千多人被告那到底有多少比例是重複的如果說有重複的就代表是說這一群人就是詐騙集團就持續他被抓了不怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16023.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16042.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
抓了又放放了又抓他是不是就持續的在做詐騙那代表他罰不怕那罰不怕就兩個原因一個就是說這個市場真的太好做了所以他們就有恃無恐嘛那另外一個部分就認為是說他們很囂張啊他2022年一萬五千多人被抓查獲但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16043.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16055.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
他抓了又放出去2023年18000多人你們講是說查獲詐欺被告人數成長16%好像很厲害但實際上這到底有多少人是重複的有沒有這樣的一個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16058.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16072.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
包委員,這個重複的一定是有啦,不過我們手上是沒有這個很精確的去比對這個數字。那如果說連這個數據都沒有的話,我們怎麼樣再延伸?其實這就是問題。我覺得過去到現在我們講詐騙講了那麼久。 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16074.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16090.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
我們就一直講是說兩個部分一個是嚴峻禁法法令在之前有沒有辦法用強力的法令去讓嚇阻這些詐騙集團不管是車手不管是首腦不管是任何詐騙集團的人只要抓到我們會罰到你叫不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16092.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16104.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這當然我們通力檢討我們大家一起來配合我們很多委員也在做提案修法但另外一方面是說如果說你們沒有掌握的話那這一些人就是持續囂張啊抓了又放放了又抓啊那不是累的是我們基層的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16105.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16127.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
我就講說我都是一直站在我們第一線的警務人員喔我都講是說這上禮拜我們僅有在民防的這個參會都還有所長都還有分局長到現場都還是重複在講說大家要不要被詐騙啊165反詐騙都還是宣導我們同仁每一次遇到這種參會都還是宣導但是源頭管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16128.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16140.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
你怎麼樣去把這一批人你都已經知道有一萬五千多人一萬八千多人那重複的人在哪裡有沒有辦法針對這個部分去做一個更加強我覺得這才是重點不要抓了又放放了又抓 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16143.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16165.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
來最後我想請教一下那個速發部速發部你今天的第三點的資料本席也一直提講源頭管理很重要各資不要外洩你第三頁的資料辦理行政檢查作業講說重大各資外洩的業者加強行政檢查過去兩年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16166.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16187.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
檢查了幾家?跟委員報告我們成立還不到兩年,我們一年多一年多檢查了幾家?一年半快兩年的時間檢查了幾家?檢查的部分我們做了24家但是28家次有的有兩次以上不管24家還是28次啊那你平均一個月兩次啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16188.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16207.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我們的能量有,你檢查是哪一些啊?我們的講是說過去到現在國人對於速發布最期待的就是你要加強這個個資的保護的一個檢查他就應該是說所有只要有收集個資的公司你把它列出來各行業別前三名你們正點先去稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16208.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16226.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
但是你到目前為止成立了快兩年的時間你才做了28次的行政檢查平均一個月兩次左右那無怪乎人家會覺得是說你速發部真的在個資保管或是源頭管理這邊都沒有辦法做一個盡責啊是不是讓委員讓我說明一下不是嗎你覺得28次夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16228.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16247.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
委員是不是讓我說明一下沒有關係你覺得28次夠嗎委員先生有個前提先讓我說明一下這個我們沒有管理到各行各業的個資這就是第一件事情我們針對是電商的部分你們接受電商沒有錯但是就是每一次只要遇到有本席一直強調速發部的功能是什麼除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16248.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16274.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
除了要去做一個處理以外更重要是你們也要去維護相關去檢視人家的資安的部分嘛不然也不會有那種什麼隱沉的APP突然被人家駭客入侵之後然後50萬筆的個資就被人家盜用本席一直強調說這50萬筆的所以說這是誰的責任如果是隱沉他會是文化部的責任我們的資安院會在他們發動的時候配合去檢查所以不會算在我們這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16276.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16278.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
所以其他部會一發動我們都去 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16305.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16331.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
你這樣你還是沒有積極你還是可以要求其他部門共同去辦理我也沒有權限要求其他部門去這不是你沒有權限的問題這是做不做的問題我們都很願意積極做這個都沒有問題市長對不對市長本席沒有看到你們積極作為我說實在話國人也沒有看到速發部的積極作為其實最重點在於是什麼重點在於是源頭如果沒有管理你各自沒有辦法去做一個控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16332.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16333.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16362.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16381.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
下一個質詢請羅志強羅委主席有請金管會、法務部、數發部還有法務部、數位部 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16390.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16404.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
請問黃主委,金管會自己統計從去年4月10日到今年3月1日,累計收報涉詐投資廣告總共多少件? |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16405.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16409.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
新法實施到已經9個月為什麼臉書這些平台廣告還是看到非常多法令所進燈的引誘投資詐騙廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16428.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16449.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
因為一開始沒有辦法要求他實名制所以他被下架之後又換另外一個名字上來所以今年初開始就要求他們用實名制實名制的問題我們後面再討論那我想請教一下對於現在違反這個所謂的這個我們這新法投資證證券投資新脫期顧問法這個刊登引誘投資詐騙廣告他的罰則是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16454.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16465.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我們這個處分是由警察局那邊處理他如果不依照規定好像就開始處分但是他如果依照規定下架就不會有處分這部分可能要警政署這邊來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16467.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16493.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
事實上已經看到就是說基本上他主要是針對所謂的罰則的部分是在113條之一啦就像你講的他必須在所謂的位於通知期限內移除限制瀏覽停止播送或其他必要之處置才會有所謂的那個罰還的那個處罰啦是的那可是我想請教一下那為什麼不能夠就是有發現就罰呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16496.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16513.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
他要給他一個改善的時間嗎?這當初立法的時候就是這樣子的一個精神當然我要這樣講為什麼要這樣講這個問題我覺得法的那個強制力跟你最後他能不能產生嚇阻效果還是有關係的那你現在說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16515.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16543.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
你也知道是層出不窮吧然後這個幾乎是你下架一次他又上架一次下架一次又上架一次幾乎陷入這種所謂無限循環吧主委知道吧我瞭解對你不要講說這些所謂的投資詐騙你光臉書的那個我自己個人我當然已經檢舉了十幾個了吧可是不管怎麼檢舉就算停了一下就一直又上來所以這是為什麼很多的人感受到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16544.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16568.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
我們現在的那個反詐騙的成效似乎沒有辦法追到人民的滿意嘛 對不對我們要再努力對那因為以廣告來說的話就算你訂了新法可是他看他的廣告他也不管你什麼規範啊這才是我講說法制的問題那接下來我想請教實名制的部分嘛那現在臉書投資廣告現在有實名制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16571.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16593.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
有。Google的部分有。新規定是去年6月30日就實施了。對。對不對。但是臉書說今年6月才要採取實名制。報告委員我們在今天報告中後面有報告Google已經17月已經有寫。我講FB啦。FB是Meta吧。沒法6月底他要改系統。 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16594.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16596.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
我希望這個部分能夠去落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16616.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16642.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
因為它確實是一個管制的一個可能的路徑嘛為什麼我舉個例子就是實際上臉書現在其實有些部分是有實名制的規定你知道是哪些部分嗎書發不知道嗎委員應該講的是政治廣告對啊政治廣告啊那透過臉書刊登社會議題選舉或政治相關的廣告就必須通過手機跟身份證認證嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16643.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16656.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
廣告上要付出出資者的姓名跟出資單位的名稱嘛 對不對?是那我就很好奇齁為什麼我們我們這個演說這個機制為什麼不能再反詐騙早點跟他溝通呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16659.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16660.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我的建議很簡單啦既然新法也要開始跟這個FB溝通了嘛跟Meta溝通了嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16687.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16716.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我希望能夠把所謂的反詐騙這個跟政府的重視打假的是同等式之吧我常常都覺得政府打假打所謂打假訊息打得很用力啦這也不是壞事啦可是在所謂打假訊息的這個努力度上如果能夠用在反詐騙的話我覺得可能才會交出比較好的成績單吧你認同嗎我們已經都很積極在跟這幾個社群平台在溝通反詐騙的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16716.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16742.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
所以真的我覺得現在詐騙真的是變成國恥啊實際上很多的民眾我不知道各位有沒有接過那個詐騙的訊息啊有沒有接過啊 主委有接到過嗎任何的管道不管是在網路平台啊還是在你的LINE啊還是在你的那個電話啊有都有嘛因為我之前看過一個民調94%的國人都接過詐騙訊息啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16746.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16765.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
那我都懷疑那6%是不是住台灣啦基本上已經不是接詐騙訊息是經常接詐騙訊息的問題所以既然金管會已經有立法那我覺得請落實這個修法來把詐騙可能的洞補起來好嗎 以上謝謝好 謝謝下一位質詢請徐巧欣徐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16781.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16787.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
謝謝主席。那我們想請這個金管會、然後警政署還有訴發部。訴發部。理事長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16800.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16815.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
委員五安五安那個數發部剛剛您說呢是負責管電商嘛對吧是那我們來看一下最常見的幾種詐騙類型裡面喔第一個這叫做貨到付款貨到付款呢包含是你看有的人是預購口罩 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16816.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16837.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
然後買了之後他收到了相關的訊息說已經到貨了到貨之後取款以後拿到的東西跟裡面是不一樣的甚至很誇張的像網拍詐騙的部分沒有拿到貨或拿到錯誤的貨連我們全台北市最精明的台北市議員社民黨的這個苗博雅都買手機被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16838.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16860.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
那請問我看到你們想說所謂的要提高強化資安防護能力可是呢你裡面累計只有協助到88家公會的會員演練然後呢你說導入這個引馬技術到目前只有5家業者要加入積極辦理各自外洩只有結案了52家行政相關的作業只有針對24家業者辦理28次行政檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16865.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16888.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
請問你覺得夠嗎?現在為什麼我們碰到至愛難行的原因是什麼?為什麼加數這麼少?我們知道網路上的店家千千萬萬種可是我們速發部有配合的有協助處理的只有非常少數的尤其他既然是詐騙他幹嘛跟你合作所以請問這個問題你們現在所列表的處理方式是能夠解決的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16889.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16890.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
數字往下降價了多少的百分比? |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16907.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16933.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
應該是說我們已經從這個165的這個高風險賣場的名單離開了,就是這些純電商的賣場。對啊,我問你說你們下降下降了多少百分比啊?這個數字可能要請緊任,因為我不是報案經理。好,那你又叫我看報告,你報告裡面又寫得不清楚,叫你回答你又回答不清楚,是不是要檢討一下?這個應該是很正常的主席,這應該是很正常的一個很簡單的問題,他們竟然回答不出來,來繼續說。 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16934.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16954.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
那您剛剛講的部分我們是從源頭管理也就是說我們從電商的部分過去可能會比較被詬病的是說你在買東西的時候很快就會收到有詐騙表示你的個資從電商端就出去了所以我們現在從電商端開始那剛剛講的5家其實都是國內的主要的電商市佔率大概加起來已經超過七八成所以我們是先從大的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16955.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16974.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我們會不會針對第三方支付加強抽查?從過去抽查的比率一年來說第三方支付平台交易規模20億以下歸數位不管1.4萬家業者我們每年過去抽查幾家? |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16974.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16996.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
跟委員報告這個1.4萬家是他有登記因為過去第三方支付不是特許行業那沒有這個現在我們是用登錄字所以登錄字的概念是每一家都要檢查所以等於是百分之百去年我們到目前為止來81家81家都檢查所以81家就是百分之百 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16996.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17024.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
因為要登錄才能營業,如果不登錄他就沒有虛擬賬號,他就幾乎沒有辦法營業了。好,所以你們在抽查的部分裡面,你們不是針對每一家業者去抽?是,他反過來要來跟我們申報了。他反過來跟你申報,他沒申報的部分你沒有...他就拿不到銀行給他的虛擬賬號,他沒辦法營業。OK,那這個部分的抽查可能都還要再加強,針對第三方支付。所以我要問那個投資詐騙的部分法務部,那個IMB詐騙的部分請問現在目前調查進度到哪裡了? |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17025.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17027.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
不好意思主席我剛剛沒有叫到法務部請法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17037.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17065.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
委員報告案B案子去年8月台北地檢有起訴這目前在台北地院審理當中好那這個是大家都很重視的案子請你們要盡快的去把事實釐清出來向社會做交代再來呢我要問這個有關於電子簽證這我也不知道你們誰管的自己認領一下因為現在詐騙太多元了電子簽證的部分你們知道現在如果要去美國我們辦電子簽證好了那如果我搜尋委員報告我們是電子簽章跟電子簽證不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17066.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17093.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
不是啦 我是在講所以你不要硬那麼快嘛你根本就不知道我問什麼你就說是我管的這莫名其妙嗎我在講的是說我們今天想要辦這個電子簽證的時候如果我今天其實還是數位部的啦我今天假設我打ESTA進去之後第一個跳出來的會是別人打贊助廣告的這個ESTA for United States這些網站它會假裝它自己是美國官方然後呢它每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17094.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17114.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
簽證他給你收97塊美金但如果你到了正確的平台就是21塊美金而已中間他還是會幫你辦但是呢中間的價差他就賺走了請問這個部分我們要如何處理要跟Google來聯繫嗎因為非常嚴重喔幾乎你打電子簽證、美簽、ESTA所有的關鍵字跳進去的前幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17115.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17128.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
都不是官方網站請問這個部分數位部要怎麼處理?跟委員報告這個部分我們很早就注意到我們也有跟AIT聯繫請IDT如果可以對我要問你解決方案我們時間不夠AIT在他們的官網上也有說明他們不認為這個是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17130.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17155.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
說明說不是你不認為是違法但是問題是說你這東西實際上對我國的國民來說他21塊美金可以做的東西一大堆人被騙到變97塊你們是覺得無所謂就放任就好只要說明就好了那請問你具體的解決方式是什麼嗎不是AIT的問題我問你數位發展部的問題他今天是因為在google上面打了贊助廣告所以他的排名才這麼前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17156.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17184.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那這個部分我們有要做任何處理嗎?還是要放任他們讓Google上面一直推波?我們會請Google跟IT強化這件事情那請問具體你們希望什麼時候可以解決這個狀況跟問題嗎?我沒有辦法要求AIT沒有辦法做我說的是Google你要跟我扯AIT要做什麼呢?今天他們是登了Google的廣告嘛所以他的關鍵字排行在很前面嘛所以我們有沒有可能跟Google聯繫說真的這個背包要下架嗎?我們可以告訴Google聯繫這件事情因為還是假冒AIT啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17186.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17186.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
拜訪A.I.T. |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17204.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17219.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
還是你覺得不是跟你無關那請問跟誰有關跟所有人都沒有關係政府都不用管我們就大家一大堆人收97塊美金是這個意思嗎沒有我沒有這樣說我只是說那請問你剛剛講說你們會跟Google談什麼時候會談好什麼時候會有進度什麼時候會把這些贊助廣告要求他們不能給 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17221.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17222.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
好,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17257.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17284.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
謝謝欸那個Google是誰管的啊?這你們管的那好那誰可以請Google就不要做對停業對你誰管的嗎?我就你們管就管好就好了啊來下一位執行請楊瓊英楊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17293.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17294.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
黃常事、法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17316.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17332.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
李副署長。蘇發的這個李政事。好,請各位就位。謝謝大家,因為現在我們有個數字讓我們很傷腦筋,所以打仗越打越炸! |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17334.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17345.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
主詐的困難到底在哪裡?所以我請相關單位、橫向的單位都上來。政府組成了這個國家隊,但是我們看到數字反而在近5年當中2019年發生的這個數字23,054件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17352.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17371.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
二零二三就暴增到將近三萬八千件,財損從二零一九年的四十二億多、四十三億增加到二零二三年,顯性的是將近八十九億。那這麼嚴重的數字呢,連三年也就是投資詐騙,是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17374.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17374.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
請教主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17399.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17428.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我想因為民眾都有一種理財投資獲利的期待吧那當然這不怪我沒有我沒有說貪我只是說還好你說沒有我說民眾都希望有理財投資的期待嘛那這怎麼辦那我們的數字在座各位數字一直增加那我們國家也成立了國家打詐隊那越打越大那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17430.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17458.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
可能管理的力道也越來越強化,各位委員報告。管理的力道越來越強大,請說明一下好嗎?有,如果您看我們今天報告,我們去年6月修《投信投估法》,那增加70條之一,那麼對於這個在相關平台上有這個屬於不實的投資廣告,會要求它下架。那今年年初開始,用實名制的方式去歸制。 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17459.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17480.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
實名制這是今晚會議的說法來再請教我們這個國家傳播李副主委那我們這邊通傳會這邊會跟電信業者合作在電信詐欺方面不論是電信的簡訊、語音或者是大家在講的黑內卡的境外國際漫遊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17482.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17496.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
會跟所有的電信業者合作也會跟法務部你認為目前的成效呢?我想說在國際那個我們都叫家長的家裡的長輩不熟悉的電話都不敢接現在是這樣子自保欸這怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17497.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17524.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
委員這個境外的語音詐騙這一個我們今天的報告已經很清楚就是有成效但是我們會持續在精進因為詐騙的技術不斷推陳出新這一部分就是剛才講的追不上我愛去跟電信夾車一直努力去精進已經加油好不好因為很恐怖我們現在連很多的長輩我們到各地都告訴他們不熟悉的地方請千萬不要聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17526.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17540.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
現在是這樣自保欸所以這不是一個民主政府應該讓人民這麼做的啊是政府要保護人民的而不是人民自己保護自己啊 對不對趕快加油接下來我也想聽聽法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17542.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17544.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
警察跑著鑰匙找到了但是都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17570.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17571.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
那請問警政署 黃務署 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17591.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17592.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
議員長澤民、金融監督管理委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17609.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17629.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
為什麼這麼複雜?就因為它已經從實體的犯罪走到世衛犯罪。那實體犯罪比如講殺人強盜、輪流死銀行強案甚至各類的強盜強案我們都很快速來鎮破可是因為世衛時代來臨這詐欺案件就是標準的世衛犯罪它利用電信、網路、金融來傳遞犯罪來洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17630.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17651.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
所以你死不上利的意思嗎?所以你認為你們死不上利的意思嗎?所以我們現在行政院已經積極的要成立打詐專法就各面向來說沿途管理以上報告沿途管理來數位部你很重要現在連AI這個太恐怖了 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17652.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17675.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
對,跟委員報告,我們大概第一個是我們針對我們自己主管的三個產業包括第三方支付包括電商包括遊戲這三個產業我們在報告裡面都有說明我們的這個處理詐騙的部分那成績大概都在寫在報告裡面那第二部分我們會開發一些所謂的信任科技的工具也就是說透過科技來提高大家對這個信任的救得了民眾嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17677.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17703.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
剛剛警政署已經這麼說,那你們現在還要再開發?這等於是犯罪的技巧技術,你們是在後面追嗎?可以這麼解釋嗎?這個是兩個不一樣的概念跟委員報告。比如說剛剛幾位委員都有垂詢,請我們盡快推動的111簡訊。我們現在就已經有74個單位,已經快2000萬則。這個只要是政府,就剛剛委員講的,如果長輩看到簡訊,看到111就確定是政府的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17704.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17706.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
現場有多少人知道有這個知道的請舉手有一個舉半手 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17723.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17742.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
您要不要宣傳?我們會跟各部一起宣傳,這個我們宣傳我們會加強。為什麼請大家都一起上來?因為既然政府成立了國家隊,打詐國家隊,但是人民所得到的是更嚴肅的一個議題,而且更嚴重。我們輔助每天都接到這個被詐騙的電話,被詐騙的事件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17746.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17774.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
我們看到我們的政府竟然成立了國家隊為什麼還會這麼嚴重剛剛在座各位都是軍兵請你們將你們預計要怎麼做在執行中有什麼優缺點請你詳實的書面資料給本席好不好我們一起繼續來努力因為我覺得這個讓人民太恐慌了這個生活所以我們冒名名人這個詐騙猖獗政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17775.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17782.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
怎麼辦?所有的名人全部這個照片都被用怎麼辦?從根源去管控嘛,對不對?不然每一個跳出來他就來解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17800.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17827.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
已經詐騙光了啊,怎麼解釋?解釋也來不及了啊,對不對?從根源來管控才能夠真正的救民眾所以我之前我記得曾經跟這個金管會主委談過你們不斷的去宣導然後去不是只有拍片去宣導,已經來不及了因為詐騙的技巧比你們還先進你現在還有什麼保守? |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17828.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17852.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
其實我們去年走368個鄉鎮面對面的溝通也有做過。對於那些比較...再去想想什麼方法好不好?所以最後一個議題就是打詐專法就像剛剛警政署法務部也說了那是不是要嚴格我現在本席也提案我們希望到時候討論的時候一定要支持好不好至少有惡主作用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17853.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17853.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
謝謝主席,主席有請黃朱衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17878.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17882.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
法務部黃長四還有我們的銀行局莊局長莊局長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17890.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17914.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
好,大家辛苦了喔,因為這個打詐這件事情全民關注喔所以這個一路到現在包括連主席在內喔這個1點半都還沒有辦法休息我儘量把握時間有關於打詐的部分其實我蠻開心就是現在整個可以說各部會都動起來但是呢我相信不論是法務部或者是金管會都知道了這個一旦打詐這個錢要來成立的時候賬戶是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17918.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17941.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
但是如果根據現在洗錢防治的告誡我們都知道人頭賬戶事實上現在已經成為這個詐團也就是打詐集團他們非常重要的一個依據如果根據現在新修訂的法律的話是以人為單位所以我就要先救教一下這個金管會主委如果說現在有一個公司是A公司那麼他們的公司已經被告誡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17942.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17946.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
目前的管理好像沒有及於這個公司所以跟委員報告我們在15頁這邊有特別要強調我們開始要加強企業戶開立帳戶的審查機制好因為謝謝你們有注意到這個問題因為你以人為 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17968.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17993.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
主的時候我們知道現在人跟人都被盯得很緊但是如果說我身為一個公司的負責人我先用公司帳戶我這個A帳戶發生問題之後我再去申請B帳戶跟C帳戶那麼他依舊逍遙法外所以說很開心金管會先有注意到這樣的一個問題那麼我就問法務部所以在這整體的過程當中那麼所以這個副城的名下如果他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17995.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18015.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
倉戶遭到告誡的時候那麼他現有的其他已經存在的帳戶那麼會怎麼樣處理或是怎麼樣去做一個限制嗎沒有他這個如果他是被告誡的人的話他一旦進入了15條之2第6項的這個辦法去處理的話包括他本身所有的其他帳戶也一樣會受到限縮 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18016.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18041.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
好,也就是言下之意已經開戶成立的都會被限縮但是現在就變成是金管會這裡要特別注意的是不要再讓他開新的兩邊其實是有一個現在金管會跟法務部或相關的單位是有一個聯絡跟聯繫嗎?不僅其實他的辦法的規定裡面就規定明清楚了他未來新開戶都會受到限制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18041.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18065.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
好,所以這個部分是會直接跟金管會有一個規定上面的交流、交通跟聯絡嗎?表示說他一旦他曾經進入了15條之2還是15條之2的第6項成為所謂的帳戶被限縮功能之後他原有的會被限制他的新帳戶也不能開 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18066.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18069.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
主委要補充嗎?委員給我們一點機會,局長給你報告我們最近做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18089.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18104.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
報告委員就是剛剛告誡戶的部分的話到底怎麼執行我們會跟法務部這邊再洽談那至於金管會這邊的時候我們之前其實有注意到有公司戶被列為警示帳戶的這個相關的問題所以現在我們已經請銀行公會去研議說如果這個公司戶已經是警示帳戶那這個負責人他再去開其他的戶頭或者是其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18115.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18133.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
他又再去開一些新的戶頭的時候到底要做怎麼樣的監控現在我們正在請工會研議好因為通常警示賬戶的存在有很多的狀況不一定真的是所謂詐騙案但是他可能就會流於一個破洞或破口我希望銀行局這裡可以跟銀行工會來做了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18135.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18161.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
但另外一個就是說少當的時候我們當然儘管會做了很多我也必須要予以肯定但是在這樣的過程當中我們銀行打造我們有一些新招包括就是防止所謂的人頭賬戶那麼當然前面的幾項我都沒有意見不過有關於這個資本額比較低的小企業或者是說它是共用辦公室但是我們知道新型態的營運模式當中有很多的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18162.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18181.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
所以這個部分是不是也能夠有更明確的樣態的規範因為我在PTT看到現在有一些行員會說好像變成他們要去做決定的那樣的一個人那這樣的樣態如果過於龍頭模糊的時候就會把所謂一人資本的小公司好像也打成了人頭賬戶這個部分 來 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18183.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18206.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
對委員其實這也就是過猶不及都要很小心那我覺得當然因為我們現在的公司登記制其實就是一個形式要件了所以這部分大家如果能夠共同合作能夠讓這些問題能夠更釐清我想包括剛剛局長跟您報告的那個工會的研議那我們跨部會在這個平台上再做討論好 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18208.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18223.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
本席特別點出這個部分就是我們都知道現在已經了解到大概詐騙集團的樣態最後他會需要一個處理這些金流這些資金的這樣一個帳戶那麼公司如果成為一個他們可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18224.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18247.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
有這個方向去開設各個人頭帳戶那確實這個要把它防堵起來可是呢對於小型微型的公司又如何保障讓他們不會成為說他們在開戶或設立帳戶當中又變成額外的困擾那這個部分恐怕就要有請金管會法務部相關的單位要大家一起來做一個連向的橫向的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18249.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18252.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
有關於銀行局這裡跟銀行公會的這整體的樣態的協商或者是了解或是訂定法規大概要訂多久的期程? |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18267.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18268.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
林思明、林偉文 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18303.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18308.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
主席請法務部、內政部、通傳部、經管部、數位部請大家上來委員午安 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18322.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18332.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
主委還有各位市長大家午安我想行政院在去年5月就推出新世代打擊詐欺行動綱領1.5版我看那個匡列的預算在112年編列了8.33億113年編列了5.96億合計是14.29億的預算來打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18345.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18350.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
並且喊出說上游清源減少受害者下游清淤掃除詐騙集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18354.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18371.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
相較於我們新動綱領1.0版的經費只有匡列1.28億所以增加了大概13.01億但是很矛盾的我們看到就是說去年一整年國人被詐騙的金額累積高達88.78億元創下歷史新高詐欺案件也高達37984件 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18380.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18403.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
另外去年5月新草根影響力文教基金會他公布的民調也顯示說有9成2的民眾還有接過詐欺電話所以不管是在清除上上游或者減少接觸的一個通流或者減輕我們的損害金流完全沒有效果這樣看起來完全沒有效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18404.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18428.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
所以監察院也在去年12月就對行政院表示政府打詐完全是沒有有效的對策所以這十幾億的預算我們感覺就好像丟進海中沒有激起任何的一個聯誼所以我在這邊首先要詢問的是我們這十幾億的預算中我看到其中有一個設備與闖地設施的預算這個預算高達6.81億 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18433.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18452.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
所以請問這所謂的設備與場地設施的科目這包含了通傳會、法務部、內政部、金管會都有使用到這個預算那目前執行的詳細內容可否請我們主委還有幾位次長來一一回答先請那個法務部好了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18454.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18475.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
公文報告我們倒是我們的12年預算都是沒有用在場地都是用在我們臺高檢署跟調局的設備方面是包括相關的修正、鑑識跟分析的工具另外還有設備對那另外還有我們檢察官助理的費用所以我們沒有用在場地費我們只有設備費是沒有錯OK好那再請內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18479.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18501.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
委員好,我們165這個部分是我們去年因為我們進線數超過40萬我們達到去年43萬所以我們去年當時因為我們接線的人數不夠我們去年增加9個人所以我們需要整地的整量我們花了500萬的整地跟700萬的軟硬體設備因為我們裡面165有4個工作組一個是接外勤的一個綜合歸納一個電信網 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18504.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18504.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
再請通常會 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18525.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18540.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
委員好,我們通傳會這邊是有那個補助是1億350萬但是全部都發在三大電信業者的那個交換機房的伺服器或者一些設備的構置補助沒有場地跟設施沒有軍管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18543.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18551.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
今天為什麼問這個問題就是說我們發覺說我們這個去採買這些設備啦或者是場地設施的我們檢方也用了很多的一個場地設施的工作費但是打仗我剛才講的越打越炸完全沒有預期的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18569.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18585.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
所以說花了這麼多錢沒有達到我們預期的效果到底我們要如何來改善所以這部分我希望各部會真的要更加的努力啦好那接下來我要請問我們的通傳會齊委部會請回謝謝通傳會溫主委、歐副主委副主委請問這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18596.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18596.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
報告委員． |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18625.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18643.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
我們上個禮拜已經跟電信業者技術研討已經確定那個只要在各個電信業者的交換機房端設置一個束縛器然後配合移民署這邊的一些那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18644.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18666.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
有一些資料的驗證確實未來可以把黑媒卡在源頭就阻絕。還沒,因為這個部分牽涉到因為我們要去有一些要取得移民署的一些資料的話要有法律的授權。 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18668.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18689.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
我想這個副主委在今年的1月3號那某些台灣的上網卡、漫遊卡、黑媒卡需要開始實施實名制但是隨著我們總統大選的落幕電信公司就發布最新聲明宣布撤銷封鎖對台灣漫遊上網卡的實名政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18690.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18709.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
所以你剛才講說沒有實施所以這是一個事實喔其實我們我剛才講跟電信業者之間有研討了很多的技術有的是從香港端請他們的配合的電信業者來阻斷但是這一部分涉及到國際漫遊有困難那個副主席我再問你啦就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18710.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18720.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
在過去你點名說目前只有中華電信提供相關的服務那現在中華電信已經阻斷多少這種無實名制的SIM卡的門號 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18721.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
18727.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
我先跟委員報告其實這個國際漫遊我們是尊重他的商業的協商機制但是他到本國來提供服務我們認為一定要去做KYC使用者還是要做KYC所以說我們才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
18749.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
18751.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
中華電信到現在為止,今天我問你為止還繼續有做這樣的一個服務?就香港聯通的部分已經沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
18767.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18787.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
是,其他的就還有?其他的部分像香港的Hodgson的部分還有,但是這個部分...其實副主委,因為時間的關係,我只是想告訴你,我剛才已經跟你講說,利用這個手法來詐騙,你看那個金額非常的高,所以我們還是希望說我們通訊傳播會就這個部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18787.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18787.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
下一位請黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18816.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18845.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
黃建豪委員是改書面接著請游浩、游浩、游浩、游委員不在請蔡易瑜、蔡易瑜、蔡易瑜、蔡委員不在請鄭正前、鄭正前、鄭正前、鄭委員不在請蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇委員不在請何欣淳、何欣淳、何欣淳、何委員不在請王美惠、王美惠、王美惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18846.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18863.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
王委員不在請張家俊張家俊張家俊張委員不在請陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷陳委員不在請葉元之葉元之葉元之葉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18868.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18896.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
今日登記方言委員均已詢答完畢現在處理臨時提案三案請議事人員先讀那現場如果不相干的人員可以先行離開謝謝臨時提案第一案虛擬貨幣每年在國內仍有相當多國人投入交易儘管會作為主管機關亦在去年發布金融監督管理虛擬資產平台及交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18898.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18912.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
業務事業指導原則但因虛擬幣相關的周邊概念繁多市場上對虛擬貨幣相關知識不足造成許多投資人最終只能認賠收場同時虛擬貨幣也淪為詐騙集團下手目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18915.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18943.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
近期刑事警察局發現被害案件中以虛擬貨幣為詐騙目標的案件有顯著提升按外國法令於美國已將虛擬幣定性成證券但在我國仍然定性不明原提案要求金管會研議如何有效進行市場管理保障投資人並加強反詐騙及相關宣導之實際作為並於一個月內向財政委員會提出書面報告提案人應寬恆、賴氏寶、李燕秀 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18945.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18969.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
領得福羅民財。第二案,鑒於詐騙案件增長迅速,內政部警政署、金融監督管理委員會雖各公布疑似詐騙賬號及我國合法證券投顧投信公司名冊以供民眾查詢,然資源分散各單位網頁且無查詢單位,不利民眾使用。為有效打擊詐騙,保障國人財產安全,請相關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18972.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
18980.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
整合其中相關資訊．並建置完善查詢系統以利民眾查詢．提案人吳麗華、李坤成、王世堅． |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
18983.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19012.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
第三案根據聯合徵信中心資料統計臺灣男性美人平均持卡3.94張女性4.34張顯借國人使用信用卡已普遍然以擔錢包失竊、遺失人需個別向金融機構掛屍顯不符合金融便利原則原提案要求金管會成立單一掛屍窗口提供民眾便捷金融服務降低倒刷風險提案人武麗華、李坤成、王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19012.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19013.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
以上宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19043.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19043.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
本集完結。 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19063.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19077.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
本集完 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19130.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19153.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
主席響鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19237.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19264.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
議員會議員會議員會議員會議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19293.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19311.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
本集完 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19335.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19363.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
好 謝謝請宣讀協商的第一案改成兩個月是不是你們講兩個月嘛好那請各位改成兩個月有沒有意見沒有異議有沒有沒有異議好確定修正通過第二案改的部分請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19368.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19376.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
第二案是不是請秘書人員宣讀一下第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19413.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19416.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
來請把你上面麥克風來修改的部分請宣讀一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19418.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19446.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
本院武力法委員鑒於詐騙案件增長迅速請經管會、訴發部、通傳會、法務部以及內政部針對涉及詐欺資、電信、網路及金融帳戶應有一整合資查詢管道提案人有武力法委員、王世堅委員以及李坤成委員以利民眾查詢使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19448.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19458.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
好 那請問這場委員對於修改的內容有無異議?沒有異議好 那我們修正確定通過第三案是不是請經管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19466.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19487.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
報告委員那這邊金管會有一個建議的文字修正就是在倒數第二行的部分要求金管會請銀行工會研議後面成立單一掛室窗口然後在最後一行第一個字後面之可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19488.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19505.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
然後逗點再加一個以降低倒刷風險最後並於一個月內提出書面報告這是我們建議的文字修正對於剛剛以上文字修正各位有沒有意義沒有意義那就確定修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19508.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19531.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
1.報告及詢答完畢2.委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一周內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定3.委員王美惠、陳冠廷、陳建豪、葉元之所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19532.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19543.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
是本日會議程進行完畢．如果不在場委員補題書面質詢．一併列入紀錄刊登公報．並請議事人員協助現在宣布休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19559.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19562.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
多謝您的收看。 |