| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5185545278ec5b40e642cd2667747ec11bbb2820cd090d8fe343af858ec30555b7349d8067d4e87d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:48:35 - 17:08:56 |
| 影片長度 |
1221 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席有請考試院副院長貝提銘我們請貝提銘來答詢好 副院長部長好先跟你恭喜可以成為考試院副院長的貝提銘人我想這是一個榮耀未來可以當上考試院的副院長更是任重道遠為國取材的重責大任將在您的身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
62.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
但是首先要面對到一大課題這個被提名應該知道公文人員從2012這個報考人數在2012的時候是將近80萬一直到現在一直到現在2023還沒有統計出來那您知道2022就10年的時間現在差不多一年的報考率是多少人數你有這個資料嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
65.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
85.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
人數目前我手上沒有這個人數但是我知道這幾年當然是持續在下降所以我們也進行了考試方式的調整包括應試科目的這個調整那今年高不高已經沒有再往下降了是稍微有點提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
您可以跟我講說你覺得如果這十年裡面下降到幾個Posture算是非常嚴重幾個Posture算是嚴重幾個Posture算是還可接受能不能簡單說一下跟委員報告我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
106.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
以我們目前這幾年的統計跟觀察過去這幾年我們也公布了高普考各校入期的情形那個前世大那看起來事實上進入公部門的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個等於是我們通過考試的這個值的部分並沒有並沒有太大的改變當然報名人數量的部分是有下降所以我比較關心的是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
155.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
進入公部門的年輕人可以留在公部門不是不是這個應該是貝廷遠沒有回答我的問題啦我知道當然在後端如果處理得當是大家要追求的嘛是您要追求的重點是你的母數如果一直在縮減相對著 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
158.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
在進入到公部門這一端就會出的大問題這是相對的嘛對不對所以我才會簡單請教你就以你的經驗嘛因為畢竟你從次長部長一直到未來的這個副院長那要報考公務員的體系從2012年他將近有八十萬到2022年我覺得就可以跟被提名提供訊息嘛他剩下他剩下三十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
208.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
濾減這十年來濾減的將近56%快到57%了我個人覺得這是非常嚴重這幾年的影響當然還有包括少子化的影響大學生畢業生少也是因素那我們希望當然這個大學生的減少大概到我記得沒錯應該是到117年位置下滑到117年 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那可能到這個時間點再來評估這個會比較準確一點不過基本上不希望再有太大弧度的一個下法是吧 但是這個因素就稱如剛才被裡面所提到的少子化的因素之一嘛 對不對但是他應該還有其他的因素你們有做過相關的一些調查過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
其他的因素就是因為工作型態的改變新世代年輕人價值的選擇還有市場因素這一方面市部門吸引人才這一方面的力道也在加強這個現象不是我們台灣這樣而已我們到日本看過日本也遭遇這個問題年輕世代比較不願意加入工部門也是有這些相關的問題存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
270.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我不曉得在日本對公務人員的定義是什麼那如果在台灣對公務人員的定義這個職位叫做替本話對不對那現在這個替本話好像已不受年輕人的欽柴 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那除了剛才被裡面所提到的說可能是私部門本身的這些企業民間的這個力道整個職場的環境也優於這個我們的公務的部門的相關這樣的環境這個可能也是一個比例之一但是絕對它絕對不是一個絕對多數所以我才會請教說你們有做過比較詳細的這樣一個盤查嗎主要是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們是沒有做過這方面的調查說這個你為什麼要來報告我那我就請你未來當副院長的時候就應該好好詳細去做調查那我再給副院長看一個未來的副院長看一個資料你看喔他不只是這個年輕世代對公務員已經沒有給他吸引力這替本我人已經沒什麼想要捧在我而且端的人年齡層越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
可以看一下這個表格18到29歲是佔了13.5630到39是25左右將近2640到4927左右50到5927左右60%是5%以上也就是說截至到今年6月底行政機關公務人員的這個平均年齡已經來到43歲了離我們這個中高齡的定義其實差1歲多了因為明年可能就破43歲多了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
367.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個有科學數據的未來的副院長應該非常清楚不是說一定全部都要年輕人但是年輕人有一段比例他可能執行上在行政上的效率產生的效益有一定的科學的一些根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
369.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這應該副院長可以認同嘛你看我們現在目前為止不只要去報考人數逐年下降而且下降到這麼恐怖然後聯名層疲倦一直在往上推高那我才會想說您當了副院長之後如果擦亮這個公務人員的招牌可以吸引更多的年輕人願意進到這公務體系大家一起來為國家做事為人民來服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
417.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以這個如果是在考試的方面可能有部分我們也可以思考那我們目前對於高考的部分高考三級是要大學畢業才能考那普考的部分不用大學畢業可是我普考部分不用大學畢業就能考他如果考上之後他不能保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他必須要放棄學或者是放棄這個被錄取的機會所以這個部分有沒有可能他在大學考上的時候有沒有可能這個有一個調整的空間或怎麼樣還有一定要學這個協力的大學畢業才能夠考公務員高考三級嗎我記得去日本去看日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
很多公務員其實也是日本東京大學畢業尤其外交官他們名片拿出來會寫東京大學異業為什麼要寫東京大學異業我們這邊大概就不敢寫說我大學沒有畢業他們這樣寫是表示說其實他大學沒有畢業就考上外交官比畢業才考上還厲害所以我想這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
考試端當然這些問題我們都可以去做思考但是當然也影響到牽涉到相關很多人的潛意也要慎重那當然政府這幾年一直在加薪這一部分也是會有一些吸引力但是我覺得像初等考試的部分初等考試的部分事實上他的初任 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
514.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
初等考試我們是沒有學歷限制但是坦白說大部分百分之九十幾還是大學畢業在考所以這個有高資低用的問題還有他的薪資真的是比較低所以他的考試效益也造成為什麼好像公務員統計好像離職率蠻高的其實他是考上初等考試但是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他會重考重考再往更高階的去考所以這部分初等考試的部分我們是不是有檢討空間甚至他的待遇的部分是不是能夠有檢討空間尤其像土木工程的部分你是不是還要保留普考我們在高考三級都已經很難找到人才了你還要讓他進來是普考等級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
565.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想這些都是可能有討論跟討論副院長畢竟我給你蠻多時間做答覆因為我時間有限剩下一半時間從不要學藝的限制參考日本的案例或怎麼樣我想應該你心中也有一些互換那這樣我覺得很正向當然還有其他部分也是站在考試院主管一個面向他必須要去注意的事情這陣子鬧得揮揚你的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
568.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
公務體系霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
612.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
離職調職的將近81人如果坦白講再把這一個輕生的同仁加進來是82人不是81人他只是因為戴良跟同事之間的這種感情大家努力在打拼所以他才沒有在很短時間離開但這個事件又告訴我們他另外一個更深層的他裡面只有將近17個主管也一併調職、降職甘願跑到地方政府的區公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
615.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
622.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個在考試院在人事總署都沒有一個預警的機制兩年劈哩啪啪的吊了請辭了這麼多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
644.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你講我們把好的人才招進到公務體系招好進來到公務體系我們就有保護他照顧他的這樣一個責任嘛因為他要為我們國家做事嘛對不對那這個職場怎麼變成這樣然後我們在經過三四天之後剛好召委又排了這個專報我又問了老化署本署 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
667.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
才知道他的狀況不亞於北魂署所以署長直接自己答覆不到兩年的時間他足足在他的單位裡面調職、請職的、降職的提早退休的高達102人這個在公務體系裡面我不曉得啦對不起考試院相關的機關有沒有這種問題的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
695.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
考試院這邊我比較沒有聽過有這些相關的問題不是 你是沒有聽說過嘛 對不對那你們有沒有怎麼樣一個監製的一個系統的機制去看到這些資料我們現在有跟人總那邊有在合作建構一個自信平台把相關的數據能夠整合在一起我那天也是特別問了人總 問了全序部好 全序部有馬上可以提供所謂的離職的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
698.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
718.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
但是調子的資料人總會幫我提供出來然後就成為你所講的要整合那你可以跟我講嗎這個機制為什麼台灣已經走到數位這麼前進行政會還是一個AI創新的行動內閣怎麼會這個整合你知道他們怎麼打我嗎權敘部的代表跟人事總書的代表跟我講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
744.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
還要等到明年我問他明年的第一季、第二季、第三季沒有辦法答覆我的但是以我個人的認知其實類似這些問題產生人事部門就應該有警覺性了為什麼短期內有這麼多人要調動他們應該要了解這些因素把這些因素去做適當的處理今天就是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
745.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
767.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
自己的這個機關的主管本身沒有去了解沒有去注意他是被蒙蔽我們不清楚但是會調職會請職的這個情況之下也不一定全然都是霸凌有可能性騷有可能是工作壓力太大就像北分署這位同仁他是一個正式的公務人員這個單位就只有他一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
768.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
797.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
其他都是越顧的所以公文的籤花等等所謂法定的事情幾乎是他一個人要承擔所以他也有工作量的問題我們看到相關的一些報導訊息還有這個勞動部答覆的他從一天的工作時間是超過正常人的一倍以上這個當然會壓垮這個駱駝最後跟稻草嘛對不對那我現在是要表達就是說除了他們自己的上級去 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
798.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
818.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
去瞭解我們考試院還是人事總署我們要建制的這樣的一個系統怎麼需要拖到明年所以我想我們上任之後會積極來看是不是有可能建立一個疫情機制如果是一個機關裡面的流動力超過多少是不是就應該要做適當的檢討這樣的一個疫情機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
821.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
843.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好了,未來的副院長就據你承諾了越快的速度來建制我想還是保障公務員考進來已經不簡單了不要輕易的說放棄在這個資產上為國家努力做事的這個機會嘛對不對那你的經歷裡面也有當過大學校長嘛我們一般的考都是上對下 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
845.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
865.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
現在大學很多老師給學生打成績學生也可以反饋意見這個老師到底做得好不好學校還會依據學生的意見來對這個老師是不是要做怎樣的一個處分甚至以解聘都有可能那為什麼公共體系沒有這個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
867.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
895.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這部分我想我們也會來探討現在的考評大部分就是上對下不過也有同儕的考評有沒有可能下對上的這一方面的相關的考評機制我想它的合適性跟適當性我想我們也會來這個試考我提醒那副院長被提名了因為我們的公務員院考計劃是在民國96年修正後到現在足足17年沒有動過那我剛剛提到這事情其實之前都已經有討論過但是就一直不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
896.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
920.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那如果你當過副院長之後 是不是願意來發動就這樣而已 簡單就答覆我 願不願意最近有在研議 事實上之前有在研議考計畫的一個修正不過因為那個等地的問題還有牽涉到連公眾的問題又停下來那我想我會協助院長在這一方面再跟前系部大家人總積極來討論事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
922.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
947.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
應該要做一些適當的修正尤其也不要讓年輕人一進公部門他的考試可能就是最差的對他的這個在公部門的信心就會受到打擊你這樣打呼我就當成副院長被提名就是正式有做這樣的承諾要進行這個工人考試法的這個修法的這樣的一個發動好不好那最後一件事情嘛北溫署的這個憾事延伸很多問題很多面向問題他絕對不是單一個問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
949.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
966.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
已經離開的這個核檢部長他特別強調有系統性的人力缺乏問題這個系統性的人力缺乏問題又牽涉到很多的階層跟面向好比說考試院已經核定了這個機關多少員了 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
968.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
996.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
法定的原額但是很多機關他的原額可以補喔有的是沒有辦法補找不到人才可以補有的是可以補但是他的首長就還要還要怎樣他要去handle就要去預留一些空間這個這個副院長應該聽過吧之前包含司法院包含法務部都有這樣的狀況我在法治委員會一直要求當時的蔡前部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
997.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1016.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
你去掌握這一個可以給你的法定原額的用意是什麼他解釋很多啦他也說了很多啦人力就不足了啊怎麼會你們核定給他他還不把這一個法定的原額去補齊那未來這個事情人家說你不夠啊系統性的人力就一直在缺乏的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1018.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1027.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個機關的所長在運用這個人意上的一個調配的情況之下他不在一定的時間把法定的這個原則去補齊你們要怎麼因應跟處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1029.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1056.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
顏額部分我知道有編制顏額還有預算顏額那至於各機關的所長他當用人的前線他對這些顏額的調配我們有沒有什麼的方式可以去做適當的一個調整我想這個考試院有沒有這個前線還是要再進一步了解我給這個未來副院長看一個資料張化憲你看他的顏額 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1058.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1073.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
實際原則是2799今年有555人提出申請這些員警不練戰看不如歸去這是一件事情這邊報導其實基本上其實在反映基層員警的不勝負荷這樣的一個相關的一些業務那2799一次退休555人也將近佔了五分之一以上了 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1088.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1111.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那他能不能在短時間內補齊這又另外一件事情那我剛才特別提到向法務部之前的一些狀況那我知道有法定元額跟預算元額嘛但後來是我們一直要求一直要求才確實也缺乏這樣的一個系統性的人力所以是在當時在委員會的時候一直要求的時候才在那個會期裡面把人員去補足嘛這個其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1113.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1138.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
他在那個委會的過程裡面全序部都是有列席的啦他應該非常知道這個狀況理應照理講回到貴院的時候也應該大家都有所討論嘛我就覺得這個不是只有單一的一個機關發生的問題很多機關都有這樣的問題所以我才透過今天要特別提醒未來的副院長這事情你們要怎麼去做相關的因應跟處置所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1139.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1166.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這一部分因為牽涉到各機關用人的屬性那我們考試院這一邊如果是在需求的部分我們盡量能夠在考試上面來滿足委員長你看110年考試院合併給全國36個法院法定的員友就有19間以上的法院的法請人力未達法定人數他或許照不到也是理由之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1167.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1171.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
或許抓得到他的經驗為什麼會拖拖拉拉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1173.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1199.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
有很多的因素嘛所以早上有這個委員提醒事實上我們負責法治機關這個也要出去瞭解一下實際執行的情形那未來我們希望上任之後也能夠多找機會瞭解機關面對這些問題我們有哪一些部分可以來協助處理解決因為基本上你們是一定經過相關的一些依據評估才核定他一定的人數嘛對 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1201.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1222.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
總不能說我核定給他之後他做與不做都跟你們沒有關係這樣就不對啊所以我就提醒副院長這個事情要特別注意好不好好謝謝你加油啦好謝謝恭喜謝謝謝謝劉委員謝謝我們被提名人報告全院委員會本日下午對考試院副院長被提名人許舒翔詢答部分 |
| IVOD_ID |
157450 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157450 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-26 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-26T16:48:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-26T17:08:56+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |