| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/55b9778b62440c748a7e2ff9450c7bb8bf47e6092a313d3d992f522713f799f842e813f5a017db975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王定宇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:30:36 - 09:41:52 |
| 影片長度 |
676 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部報告「獵鴞專案執行規劃」，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩顧部長跟陸軍參謀長顧部長 參謀長是 王委員我們這個專案是軍售案還是商售案軍 軍售 軍售案嘛因為我剛才看了一下你的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
原始報價是向國會報了初步報價後來確認要買的數量了之後呢軍總跟美國的國防部去核實溢價的時候他價格降下來但這個差別的比例相當高差了將近百分之四十幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
所以我們一般在軍售案裡面從發價合價到audit到集合都是美國軍方負責但目前為止之前的愛國者案雷神案跟這個案子其實都是所謂的軍售案那我們如果採商售因為我們國人必須了解就是軍售跟商售都是我們向美方採購軍事裝備的方法之一那商售的話部長合價啦巡價啦議價大概是我方要負責嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
67.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
68.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我為什麼要提這一點? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就算是軍售案當然我們對美方有一定的信任程度他們的集合人員編制也比我們大太多但是一件兩件三件這樣的情形下我們面對軍售案的時候事實上我們是把買方對於價格的核定跟事後的集合我們要不要引入類似我們在商售該做的功課也就是不知道講多少就多少否則這一次他降了那為什麼沒降呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們就變多花了40多%的價格去買了一樣的裝備你懂我意思嗎這一次當然美方誠實的去集合核實價格表示這個機制還是有效但我們不能永遠都靠他方有效有些東西還掌握在我方我們部長對這一個軍售案商售案的話大概就是我們自己要負責的我們自己要各方來源去比較那在軍售案美國軍方第一次初步向國會報價 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
147.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
171.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國會合可之後我們真的要買的數量的時候他們的國防部以及軍總會提出來這時候價格就會接近買價所以我第一個建議是說我們部裡面要不要思考或是站規師這裡我們對美方的軍售案有關這些價格的我們至少要去監控它 要去審核它我不知道部長有沒有什麼想法我想是不是先請站規師 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
202.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
報告委員在我們過去的部分針對軍購的價格當然都是以美方的P&A也就是報價書或是出戶報價為主但是經過這幾年下來幾個比較重大的軍售案尤其是雷神案跟這一次的案子我們也已經跟美方達成共識就是針對未來重要軍售案裡面我們會提前做一個價格的預審去了解到目前一般的價格是多少去精進它價格的實務 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
203.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
232.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
商售你們都會去做這些功課啦那我們駐美的美團也有一定的能量去做這些事情我現在發現反而我們相信的軍售案常常會有價格偏高的狀況這個部分我們因為這個軍購案動輒都幾十億的差額這個影響的預算數很大我們希望國防部這邊要謹慎去處理就是說這個裡面都是民脂民膏我們希望用在對的地方第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
233.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那現在有差價了嘛我到底是把這個金額繳回或者要增加購置使用單位也就陸軍這邊你要有一個數量的依據我到底有多少戰力因為這現在有多少人要用我要訓練多少人我不是說現在錢多出來了我就多買個500套吧500套有500套的人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
暫立的分佈它在哪裡所以我剛才在報告裡面還沒有很清楚看到就是說我們現在國會面對有兩個選擇嘛今天你們這個報告案要嘛就是來請你們就照原數額買因為原數額是經過暫立評估相關的評估然後去購買的那多餘的價格那我們就繳回庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
另外一種心情是既然我們有這樣的預算在那裡了你們有沒有什麼樣的戰力評估告訴我們說我們原來就是錢不夠所以才買了一半後面要增加買這個要很科學的告訴我們而不是多多益善部長這邊請回答跟委員報告第一個我們據我了解我們本來的這個案本來就不是只有要買這樣子的一個數量我們只是依照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
303.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國家財政的預渡我們先購買這樣的一個量第二點就是說我們現在是根據相關還要再進行這個所謂的模式模擬我們會對於整個作戰防衛的這個構想所需要的這個因為你們今天這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
321.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
陳永康將軍是有經驗的人了你應該原來我評估要買一千枚我因為國家財政我現在買三百枚現在價格打六折了那我可以把原來一千枚要達標的我可以增加這個也許可以說服委員這一塊我們今天沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們這個部分會後再提供一個那個詳細的因為現在我們本席我們今天報告案完這個預算的處理那我請部長思考看看是不是等你們有這個詳細的說明後是 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
354.76 |
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381.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
預算的部分我們再來處理就是說我們可以一次處理但是如果說明不清楚容易早因為我原來可能要買這麼多第一階段買多少這介紹戰力的規劃也許是機密可是要讓國防委員知道那現在呢因為價格壓低了我要增加數量是在原規劃裡面那個規劃是什麼那個戰力規劃是什麼我們才能做到底要不要讓你買的依據所以我看部長我們今天如果部長同意的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
402.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個部分我們是不是今天把報告完但是後續這個預算是繳回還是徵購是不是請國防部這個所屬單位向各委員來做充分的說明否則今天處理的話我認為判斷的依據我沒辦法有科學的依據報委員 謝委員給予這個機會讓我在這邊說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
事實上這個也如委員剛剛的指導我們並不是因為有這樣子與預算上面編列的差價有60億要去把它買足買齊而是事實上我們本來就依據整個防衛專案的需求也完成了各式的武器部隊的編裝乃至於無人機運用的整體規劃那其中也包含到配附和編裝的調修這都是整體的規劃那個參謀長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.936 |
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453.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這一塊因為我時間的關係我覺得應該要更說明更清楚因為你原來過來買這些搞不好明年你是要買中科院自己研製的類似彈簧刀東西嗎因為我們已經有看到那個東西了嘛就是說這筆錢多出來了是好事總比不夠好但多出來怎麼用可能要一個充分的說明我們再來處理可能會比較精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
482.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對,這一點可能要因為涉及到一些我們相關的這個評估的細項我們的編裝各方面是軍事機密啦我會在這邊請你回答我建議跟我們各國防委員說明清楚大家可以理解怎麼處理才是對我們使用單位就是軍種最有效的辦法那我們今天就先把報告案報告完然後你們再把相關資料跟大家說明我們再跟每個委員再做一個詳細的說明這個我要用我諮詢時間講因為這不是我主席該講的但我作為一個委員要看這些預算我認為你們目前提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
數據還沒辦法完整的說服我接下來我快速的問下一題這一題我其實想問很久就是我認為我們現在邊線比有三個並爭我很快速的講一下第一個我們根據國軍近五年的軍官士官士兵的邊線比其實平均值都往尤其士官跟士兵都降到八成以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
2.志願役士兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
524.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
549.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
擔任基層非常重要幹部就是軍校生我們軍校生你看我整理了第三張表軍校生從2020年到2024年任官未滿服役年限提前退伍人數從400一直增加到1037這些人可能都排長這些人可能是裝甲部隊的車長等等就這樣子大量基層幹部大量的提早離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
551.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主戰部隊的志願役士兵每四個有一個離開然後邊線比都幾乎發生在主戰部隊戰車、炮兵等等他的邊線比都低於八成以下這三個問題我不知道國防部現在有沒有什麼解決方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
570.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
599.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有,現在正在擬議中的就是軍校生的部分我們會做一個適度的擬議中是適度的調升那另外就是這一個有關這個提高待遇的這個部分我們會針對相關的這個邊線比比較低的還有一些專業的部分我建議說除了薪資報酬以外應該還有其他的就是就業環境的因素可能一定要考量第二個我要提醒國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
600.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
612.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
不能為了增加這個邊線筆比如我看最近有說要放寬不適服的回來我不是反對我的意思是說體能品德能力這三個不能打折 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
614.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
跟委員報告我們不釋乎的只限於那一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
有些不能打折,有些是因為家庭就這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝王定宇專委 |
| IVOD_ID |
157418 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157418 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-17 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-25T09:30:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-25T09:41:52+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |