| IVOD_ID |
15739 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15739 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-20T08:30:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-20T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:59:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6858729a3a0ba87e8cc6adffd4dccc8d5f93be8d109af184be4ccd91e9bc002f9e85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】
【3月20日及21日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:35 - 13:30:00 |
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及公職、職業、職業、職業、職業、職業、職業、職業 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1800.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1809.74 |
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報告委員會初期委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年3月18日星期一93分至16時56分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員陳金輝等15人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1823.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1843.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
列席委員林德福等44人、列席官員、衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等相關人員、主席王兆吉委員喻敏。報告事項,宣讀上次會議議事錄,決定確定,通過動議一項,另有動議一項,有在場委員表示異議,委員蘇清泉等6人提案才點名表決。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1844.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1860.044 |
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表決結果,在場出席委員13人,不含主席贊成者6人,反對者7人,贊成者少數,本案不通過。邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部、法務部、內政部警政署就社會安全網推動情形及策進作為進行專題報告．並備質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1863.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1889.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本次會議由衛生福利部部長報告後委員陳金輝等26人提出質詢軍警衛生福利部部長、內政部警政署副署長詹永茂及教育部學生事務及特殊教育司司長吳林輝及各相關主管等及其答覆委員吳春成、顏寬恆、沈伯陽、林德福、陳冠廷、張雅玲葉元之及羅志強所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1890.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1909.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定通過臨時提案十三項宣讀完畢好,請問委員會,上次議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1911.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1924.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
如果沒有的話,議事錄確定。本日會議議程為邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任．進行專題報告．並備質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1927.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1929.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
作為．進行專題報告．並備質詢。以上議程採綜合詢答。現在介紹在場委員及列席官員陳昭芝委員王振旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1958.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1964.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
臨月勤委員我們介紹出席官員勞動部許明春部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1966.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1991.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
勞發署蔡孟良署長、職安署周子蓮署長、勞動關係司王厚偉司長、勞動保險司陳美女司長、勞動福祉退休司謝倩倩司長、勞動條件及就業平等司黃維稱司長、勞動法務司傅慧芝司長、衛福部李立芬次長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1992.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2013.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
社家署簡惠娟署長、保護服務司郭采榮副司長、教育部學生事務及特殊教育司吳林輝司長、國民及學前教育署戴淑芬副署長、國民及學前教育署學前教育組王惠秋組長。接下來,勞動部許部長就本日議題進行報告。時間5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2023.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2045.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生大家好今天本部應邀至貴委員會就《落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任》進行專題報告進行委員不吝指教為營造友善職場環境、性別平等工作法明定性別歧視禁止及職場性騷擾防治相關規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2046.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2061.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
職場性騷擾防治在今年的3月8日邁向新的里程碑新制強化雇主的防治意識及責任積極保障工作權之性別平等以下就落實職場性別平等及強化雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2062.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2077.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
職場性騷擾防治責任分別進行說明。第一個部分是落實職場性別平等。性別平等工作法明定,雇主對於求職者或受雇者,不論在招募、徵試、禁用、分發、配置、考積、申簽、 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2078.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2106.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
教育、訓練、薪資及福利措施或是對於退休、資遣、離職及解雇等事項皆不得因性別或性傾向而有差別待遇。雇主違反性別歧視禁止相關規定者除可處新台幣30萬元以上、150萬元以下罰款外必須公佈其名稱及負責人姓名並獻期令其改善。藉其未改善者應按次處罰。本部每年與各地方勞政 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2107.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2123.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
機關共同辦理職場性別平等相關研習會宣導並透過網站、臉書及折頁等多元管道加強雇主對性別歧視禁止法令的認知以營造友善職場環境。」第二個部分是強化雇主職場性騷擾防治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2126.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2139.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
為強化雇主防治工作場所性騷擾責任,保障被害人的權益,透過跨院、跨部會的合作,並經大院的審議,完成性別平等工作法的修正,於112年8月16日公佈,並自113年3月8日全面施行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2144.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2161.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
本次修法重點本次的性別平等工作法修法首重強化雇主的防治意識及責任明定雇主不論被害人是否提出申訴只要知悉性騷擾都要採取立即有效的糾正及補救措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2162.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2180.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
並應提供或轉介諮詢、醫療或心理諮商等協助,完善被害人的保護及輔助制度,並建立外部公權力申訴調查機制,增訂最高負責人或僱用人為性騷擾行為人的行政法等,周延保護被害人,遏阻職場性騷擾事件發生。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2182.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2196.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
修訂七項執法、完善配套措施,配合本次修法本部共召開超過20場的會議,迅速確實地完成了七項執法的修訂,更提供三種範本及指導手冊供雇主參用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2197.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2219.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
並建置職場性騷擾案件的通報系統及工作場所性騷擾調查專案人才資料庫兩大系統與新法施行同步上線提供便利的線上服務並以辦理10場次的專業調查人事培訓營超過950人參訓協助地方政府及事業單位調查性騷擾的申訴案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2222.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2244.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外,為了協助地方政府順利推動新制度,開辦三項補助計畫,協助地方政府聘用專業人力、洽請專業團體或人事調查案件,提供被害人心理諮商及法律諮詢與輔助,全力支持地方政府建立處理機制,並協助雇主來辦理防治措施。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2245.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2274.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
三、推動全面的教育宣導措施本部112年已辦理23場的法令說明會及3場第一線勞政人員的培訓營113年我們也將持續辦理並與13個部會共同協力推動全面的教育宣導措施讓各產業的僱主、求職者及受僱者都建立正確的性騷擾防治觀念在職場的人際互動關係彼此尊重營造真正友善的工作環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2275.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2294.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
面對職場工作平權重要議題,本部將持續促進性別平等工作,強化職場的性騷擾防治,為促進我國職場平等共同努力。」以上報告,敬請各位委員先進指教。謝謝。好,謝謝許部長。我們補充介紹陳金輝委員、盧憲一委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2301.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2305.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝。接下來請衛福部理事長就本日議題二進行報告。時間5分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2313.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2314.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
作為提出報告,敬請各位委員不吝指教。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2338.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2357.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一、完善職場育兒環境本部配合行政院少子女化對策落實總統領導六屆國家一起養鎮建持續建構托育服務資源協助員工平衡就業與家庭相關作為簡述如下一、建制多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2358.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2376.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
托育服務體系、關乎一至107年運用前瞻計劃經費補助地方政府盤點狹內空間部件公共托育機構優先補助偏鄉及資源不足地區並與符合資格之保姆及私立托嬰中心簽約為合作單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2378.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2396.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
由政府協助家長支付托育費用今年再次提高補助金額將每名幼兒托育費用控制在家庭可自備所得的5%到10%送托公共化托育目前每月 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2397.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2421.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
補助家長7千元,準公共化托育的話是補助每月1萬3千元。」瓜虎二、運用獎助措施協助提升托育服務品質。居家托育人員經地方政府機關年度考核通過者可申請每年1萬2千元的專業服務獎助。托嬰中心若採1比4的照顧比, |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2421.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2440.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
每徵聘一名托育人員即可申請每年50萬元的一個優化補助,同時運用經費補助公共化與總公共化中心的營運費來補貼薪資的一個差額,穩定專業人力確保托育服務品質。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2442.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2451.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
二、建構職場友善育兒環境、關乎於與勞動部及行政院人事行政總署109年嚴定事辦計劃、111年修正為企業機關構提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2457.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2474.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
員工、子女托育服務實施計劃、協助雇主提供員工、子女托育服務、落實競變性的照顧、得以兼顧就業育兒、為鼓勵政府機關構設置員工、子女托育設施運用前瞻計劃經費補助開辦費,職場保姆最高可補助100萬元,托育中心最高補助500萬元。 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2481.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2496.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
企業附設托嬰中心可向勞動部申請托兒設施措施設置及經費補助並可與主管機關簽訂總公共合作契約協助員工申請托育補助減輕員工育兒負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2499.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2508.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
及申請托育服務品質講座等措施。」二、托育人員資格與輔導及培訓策進規範、托育照顧屬專業服務之一環、托育人員的專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德培訓等事項、攸關兒童照顧品質與安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2520.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2532.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
之說明如下。一、托育人員的資格規範。關乎一、居家托育登記制採取證照學歷訓練三軌並行。因向直轄市縣市主管機關申請登記,經審核資格並查調本人及同住成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2537.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2552.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
無消極資格、實地檢核居家托育環境安全性通過後發給登記書才可以來職業。」瓜虎二、托嬰中心托育人員採證照、學歷、雙軌症並行。托嬰中心聘僱工作人員前應檢附相關證明文件、報主管機關核准、人員異動的時候一同。三、本部建制 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2564.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2585.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
托育服務整合資訊系統．地方主管機關透過這個系統．對托育人員進行管理與督導．並對曾違反兒童虐待者予以註記．主卻在任職而上福利相關工作．被維護受托兒童的權益。二、專業職能訓練．托育人員不論是參加專業人員的訓練實施計畫課程．或是每年的在職訓練18個小時課程．除了嬰兒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2594.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2600.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
嬰幼兒的發展、健康照護之外都包括了托育服務工作的專業倫理所責、托育人員職責與社會責任及倫理所責。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2606.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2626.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
三、檢討精進本部近期將邀請專家與職下市縣市主管機關針對未能各守專業倫理與責任的托育人員救法制度面來進行檢討那我們在中央跟地方也有責任跟民間團體共同合作建構職場的一個環境跟強化從業人員的職業倫理與 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2633.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2648.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
與職者。」以上報告。謝謝。好。謝謝衛福部理事長的報告。有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報。現在開始詢答作以下宣告。本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘。列席委員4分鐘。10點半截止發言登記。委員如有書面質詢,請於散會前提出。預期不受理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2654.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2667.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
暫定10點30分休息5分鐘,原則上11點30分處理臨時提案。如有提案,請盡早提出,以利益勢進行。」現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝委員進行發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2680.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2701.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
陳副委員好部長早請問部長聽過花花班這個名詞嗎有聽過花花班是在護理界常用的這個名詞就是因為在很短的時間內他必須去上白班、小夜班、大夜班那這種混亂的工作排程其實會影響生理時鐘而且讓護理師他們就是沒有辦法充分的休息那身心俱疲 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2703.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2730.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那我們知道這個勞基法第34條雖然對排班是有所規定可是其中有一句話就是經勞工同意者不在此縣所以某一些醫院就會拿來當作一個閨密的護身符所以這個縣況還是有花花班的存在成為護理師們的噩夢那我想再請問部長就是說假設我今天上班是8點到5點的班那如果我今天5點55分下班的話請問這樣有沒有可以領加班費 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2734.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2740.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業領域及其他職業 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2751.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2768.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
院方不滿一小時就不算加班,甚至有些醫院他的加班只能進入key-in整數的部分,所以讓部長知道這件事。那臺灣護理產業工會的調查也指出護理師的加班計算時數方面有44%的人認為59分鐘不算加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2774.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2795.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
委員這個不對喔,這依法它就是有加班事實就是要給加班費當然就是可能按比例啦看他多少時間看他怎麼算那我今天特別在談護理師的部分因為真的大家都很關注護理師那衛福部的照護師有架設一個平台就是護理職場爭議通報平台那我的助理有打電話去詢問就是經過通報之後這個資料案件會轉到地方衛生局然後再轉到勞工局去做集合可是有民眾陳情說 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2804.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2822.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個勞工局在做勞檢的時候會向他的主管透露舉報人,那造成他職場上受到霸凌,請問這樣子的話有誰敢去做通報嗎?我知道勞檢人力也是很吃緊,他們有很大的壓力,但是是不是希望勞動部在這個部分保護這個舉發人可以做的落實? |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2825.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2852.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
不可以洩漏提發人的資訊﹖因為現在有陳情人來表達這件事這個我們會注意我們要提醒這些地方勞工局的相關的警察人員這是不應該的就是希望以後要落實那另外根據這個平台的一些統計如果我們看勞基法相關的部分它通報最多的爭議包括第一個例假日上班的爭議工時過長花花班及更換班次的間隔沒有達到11個小時或是沒有給加班費 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2853.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2856.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那請問部長,這些申訴案有沒有做一些後續的追蹤? |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2858.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2882.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
有沒有資料可以瞭解?通報在這個平台上的話有沒有做一些?各位委員報告這是通報到衛福部的平台那我們的勞動部資料給我們勞動部說我們會針對申訴案件、申訴案檢查那有些是屬於比較模糊的我們會列為專案檢查做處理那我們針對醫療保健服務業112年我們會做專案檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2886.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2906.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
如果今天大概沒有辦法提供我參考,如果你有一些資料做分析跟整理,是不是會麻煩提供給我,我來瞭解一下。這樣可以。那勞動部曾經在上一屆的委員會有承諾說在今年會進行所謂的促進護理人員留才久用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2907.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2921.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這個研究計畫,請問這個研究計畫現在還在進行嗎?有沒有初步結果?或是停擺了?報告委員,這個人我,因為這個應該是我們勞研所的業務啦,那我來追蹤一下再跟委員回報好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2921.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2922.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
進行職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2944.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2964.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
在工作上但沒有得到加班的認同或加班費,當中包括交班時間沒有納入工時,打下班卡後繼續工作,甚至有受訪者表示他在平和、開會或做醫院評鑑這些作業都沒有算在正常工時,都是一種隱形工時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2967.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2993.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那因為你在2018年您上任沒有多久的時候在委員會、衛環委員會您有說過說因為人力物力有限所以勞檢應該要有分級制度針對這個所謂的高風險和高違規的這個事業單位來優先處理雖然我從2022年的這個相關年報看起來好像醫療保健這個部分違反勞基法的狀況不是很多但是因為畢竟勞檢的覆蓋率才三成嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2994.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3000.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
他未必能完全反映整體事實狀況。」所以想問部長,勞動部可不可能針對醫療保健這個月來進行優先的勞檢? |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3007.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3009.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
其實我們每年都有專案檢查然後專案的名單就是我們會針對過往這個紀錄違規紀錄不佳的我們都會進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3024.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3052.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
在選列進來也有請衛福部提供一些建議的業者讓我們來做主要是我想這近年來大家都看到了護理師的工作護理人員他的工作的環境、境遇、待遇等等會不會你的缺乏大家都不斷地很重視而且甚至已經影響到醫療機構的運作因為很多醫院因為護理師的流失他甚至被迫關病床所以我特別就是說請部長考慮可不可以就這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3053.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3058.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
衛生福利部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、教育部、 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3077.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3094.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就發生爆炸而殉職。那還有7人輕重傷,殉職的下凡人都才30幾歲。那基層的警消人員他們已經長期在吶喊說希望中央能夠開放組工會但是一直沒有獲准可是去年的民洋大火之後行政院趕緊通過了公務人員的寫法的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3095.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3119.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
公務員協會的法修正,允許成立特種公務員協會。」但是因為來不及在上一屆的議會審議,所以清一屆國會要重新打掉重建。我想了解這個議題,就是說到現在為止大概討論了整整10年,那一直在研議中,難怪有網友說了一句話,錦霄永遠是今日功績,明日忘記。 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3120.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3142.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
或是說我們政府總是要在付出最大的生命代價之後才會去想要做一些改變那我想知道部長您對這件事錦囂成立工會的您的態度是如何?報告委員我們對於說強化他們的結社權跟結商權這個我們是支持的只是說因為他具有公務人員的身份 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3143.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3169.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
還有就是說他這個整個體系適用的這個範圍問題所以行政院跟全序考試院這邊也跨院協商而且我們那個公務人員協會法上一次他就是朝部長是部長就是說我瞭解他們是屬於公務員那不是勞工所以不能使用很多勞工所要的公費勞基法的但是我要提醒說他們的工作型態還有他們執行勤務的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3171.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3199.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
其實跟很多公務員是不太一樣的還是不一樣的所以才會有說因為公務人員協會法這個保障權益它遠不如公會法所以而且另外消防員工作權益促進會這消促會成立10年了他們有陸續提出一些職業安全當然設備不足、訓練不足還有工職場等這個問題但是因為他們不是公會他們沒有辦法要求僱主跟他們做協商因為沒有這個協商的這個義務之後他們很容易在爭取權益的時候受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3200.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3218.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
秋後算賬。」包括有一位消防員叫徐國堯,他爭取權益以後被寄過解職,就因為他沒辦法受到工會法的保障。所以部長就是說支持警消組、工會,這個難道沒有轉圜的餘地嗎?因為他們實在跟一般的公園是有落差的,他們的這個執勤的這個狀態跟他的風險是有落差的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3222.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3231.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
因為他的身份問題的確還是沒有辦法完全來適用公會法但我是覺得我剛才講就是說如何加強他們這個結社權、團結權還有包括說他們未來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3236.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3247.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
一些能夠協商的事項,盡量去放寬,盡量讓他擴大參與範圍。」部長就是說您願意考慮用增加、強化他們的這些權、團結權或是協商權。還有這些參與的事項,來讓他的權益能夠受到保障。這個部分我們都在相關的會議討論的時候,我們勞動部都有參與也提供意見。不管是副理事或警消人員,他們都在在前線保護我們的生命跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3266.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3293.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
安全。」而且他們背後都有一個等待他們下班回家團圓的一個家庭那面對疾病這個還有災難真是犯罪的行為在突發事情的時候這一群英勇的第一線工作者他們用專業跟熱情來守護我們的安全跟健康因為他們盡心盡力所以在發生重大事件的時候他們就有機會讓我們把災害跟這個損失降到最低那每一個訓執的背後老實說都是無法彌補的損失每一地護理師的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3295.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3314.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
漢水每一滴消防員的淚水。」我想都在提醒我們我們就是說不是只要他們不是只需要掌聲跟感謝我們要具體的去支持他們做一些改變那我希望不要再用殉職換改革也不要再有護理師過勞跟火神的眼淚好嗎好謝謝部長謝謝委員好我們謝謝陳昭之委員的質詢接下來我們請陳金輝委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3333.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3341.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
相請部長主席各位委員同事各位官員早安主委好早安 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3344.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3356.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
好這個是大家都知道的事情在臺灣呢每一個兒童不管是什麼身份的兒童我們都應該要尊重兒童權利公約而且用兒童最佳利益為優先考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3358.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3374.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個週末很多人都感到很傷心因為我們的虐童案還未結束但又發現有兩名失聯移工的子女疑似遭到虐待而且其中一位已經離世了另外一位我們非常希望他在好轉中 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3375.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3399.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好,我們都知道呢在台灣的移工人數嘛大概有一半以上是女性而且78%是25到44歲的青壯年所以在這個年紀懷孕也是相當合理的但他們的生育權他們生下來的小朋友有沒有辦法讓我們台灣政府好好的保障是我們今天要來討論的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3402.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3416.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這邊很難過的看到兩位監委在111年就已經對勞動部提出糾正說到避免女性外籍移工在懷孕後被迫終止契約回國或發生失聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3418.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3446.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
但勞動部空有政策與措施卻落實不足導致懷孕的移工被迫解約不斷發生甚至擔心遭解約而隱忍懷孕未做產檢沒有辦法保障懷孕移工的權益而上週末的這個新聞這兩個可憐的小朋友他們就是這樣他們沒有戶口黑戶而且沒有受過任何的產檢也沒有打過任何的疫苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3448.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3462.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
請問部長,這個111年的糾正案文,到現在您有什麼具體的解方嗎?報告委員,第一個,那兩名小朋友,其中一位不是醫工 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3463.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3470.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3485.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3504.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
行政部、勞動部、衛福部、還有教育部就說因為黑戶寶寶這個問題不是只有說失聯移工他可能包括一些就是非法居留的外國人移民署目前調查起來如果是失聯移工的黑戶寶寶已經到了一千到兩千之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3505.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3517.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
報告委員,我們大概近20年,我們看統計資料,近20年,黑屋寶寶大概有1萬8,然後我們失聯乙工大概不到20%,大概有3500多人,大概19.多%,不到我們之一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3523.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3547.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
三千五百多人總人數黑五寶寶是一萬八這個部分當然我們跟委員報告這件事情就正在行政院有召集跨部會協商那就是針對因為這些黑五寶寶涉及很多問題第一個他的國籍、他的安置、他的醫療、他的社福、他的教育等等所以有 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3548.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3568.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
請相關部會,目前主責的部會是衛福部,我們各部會有分工,像內政部他就是這些黑戶寶寶他的國籍他的居留,還有就是私人移工他所吸子女的安置是內政部。但是現在111年糾正到至今還沒有結案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3569.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3596.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
委員這個就是說糾正以後我們就是跨部會那麼大家去本於各自的權責去協助這些黑屋寶寶的相關的事務那像勞動部主要黑屋寶寶他們安置還有遣返的費用全部都是那個勞動部來負責其實我有把你們回覆了四份公文啦你們有提出四份報告回覆檢查我都把它看完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3597.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3619.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
但裡面大部分的內容很多是複製貼上那越來越長所以其實等一下我們來一起檢討一些數據因為看起來這兩位監察員很密切的在追蹤這個案子他們115年才要退休但是我們勞動部具體可以做出什麼改善似乎是目前還看不太出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3619.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3641.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以我們來看一下我們仔細的分析我們女性移工因為他們也符合領取生育補助所以他們來領取因為懷孕領取生育補助的人數跟最後這些懷孕的人在終止契約之下離境我們從107年到110年你看到他的比例越來越高從28%升高到74% |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3645.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3668.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
但從這個數據我們看不出來幾個資訊第一他這個終止契約到底是不是假終止真違法他其實是不願意被解聘的再來我們如果領了這個生育補助但是最後沒有離境你們有沒有去好好的追蹤他們有沒有好好的生下寶寶或是他們失聯了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3671.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3686.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
報告委員像現在的這種終止我先說明一下地方政府一定要做驗證一定要驗證一定要確認他是有這個終止的真正的意思他們才會準然後現在就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3688.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3712.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
他們假設是合一宗子返國的這個有我們去年去年的人數2000我們現在你看一下數據這是最新的112年上半年每5個有領到生育補助的4個就會離境所以假使我是移工的同儕 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3713.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3738.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我是嚇死啊 原來懷孕以前20%的人要離境現在80%的人會終止合約離境所以對我來說 移工如果懷孕只有一個選擇啊就是離開這裡嘛第二個選擇就是我們所謂的失聯嘛那您剛講的這個驗證機制吼你有去追查這個驗證機制的成效1955專線的成效如何嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3743.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3767.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個報告委員我們都有因為這個是地方勞政機關他一定要去確認所以這個部分我們其實都會去做也會追蹤我們來看一下這是你的報告所述你的報告所述近5年並無雇主以移工懷孕為由終止而違反性平法但監察院紀惠蓉委員調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3769.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3796.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這個找了1955專線所申訴的20個案件最終呢都是撤案他就被核卸掉了所以其實你的數據並沒有辦法完整的呈現最終這個1955的調查到底有沒有效這個驗證到底有沒有效你的監察院報告裡面都有寫啦你們在調解的時候會注意他有沒有面露這個緊張的神情啊等等的這個四份都一樣啦但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3797.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3802.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
很顯然的這個沒有什麼效為什麼懷孕而返國的人這幾年來會從20%變80% |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3808.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3827.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那報告委員是這樣子假設真的有這個被迫的情形我們一定會介入處理但是我們也鼓勵移工他勇敢申訴其實我們現在就是有做宣導現在移工進來部長你有看過這本書嗎這本書是調查失聯移工他們為什麼離開台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3841.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3853.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這本書很詳細的描述他們是什麼原因離開其實有些故事還蠻傷心的有一個移工說他花了一萬多美金兩次的中介費才來台灣工作但他不小心懷孕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3854.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3869.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他知道他一定公司會強制把他送回越南所以他才選擇失聯因為他一定要賺回那一萬多美金的仲介費才有辦法所以這個監察院的報告已經很顯示你們這件事情好像跟你實際調查還有獲得的資訊不同再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3873.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3889.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
對,再來我們從移民署的報告看起來你看109年到112年他最後呢需要安置懷孕的失聯移工或是稀有子女的居然增加了三倍居然增加了三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3893.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3912.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以對懷孕的移工而言他真的是只有兩個很不幸的選擇不是回去不然就是變成我們社會安全網接不住的小孩就是上週很悲慘的新聞所以最後我們剩下時間不多本席提出三大改善的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3913.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3929.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
當然這些部長都已經知道了差不多了第一宣導沒有到位所以我提供一個新的建議因為在我職業20年的生涯我們面對非預期懷孕因為你從來沒有去這些安置他們的地方詢問他說你這個懷孕是預期還是非預期嗎當我們面對非預期的懷孕的時候其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3934.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3951.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
副產科醫師會跟個案討論未來我們應該要怎麼避孕因為雖然小時候學校都有教過但是難免都會忘記嘛所以你應該要在他入境的時候除了對他的權益、生育權等等性平法全部都有教育以外我想避孕也是很重要一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3952.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3976.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對他他他有可能在他工作的期間他並不希望有非預期的懷孕所以你的專線也應該要有提供這樣子的諮商嘛就可以避免這些遺憾的事情還有在他合約這個終止合約你們應該要更完善的法律跟輔導資源以及建立我們這個僱主呢友善移工的育兒環境不然我們還要面對更多的移工我不曉得未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3977.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3992.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們應該要怎麼處理這些失聯的移工還有他們的黑戶寶寶,是吧?是,謝謝委員的指教,我們會再強化有些都在做了,有些如果還不足的,我們再把它精進再強化有,好,謝謝,謝謝部長好,謝謝陳金輝委員的質詢接下來我們請林月琴委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4023.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4027.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
有請我們的那個勞動部部長跟學特師的師長來請部長還有師長信憑三法通過那在8月16那我們的信憑三法通過之後呢那這三部法的對象事實上不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4052.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4071.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
性平工作平等性平工作性工法裡邊事實上對職場還有我們的呃性平的教育法事實上是學校好那性騷事實上不特定對象好所以想問的是我不知道勞動部這邊到底對於好整個的好呃流程裡邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4072.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4099.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
已經有讓所有的我們的職場工作者都了解了嗎?」這是一個。那一樣就是教育部也是。請部長這邊。是。各位報告,其實我們現在民眾遭遇到性騷擾的案子,他像任何一個機關來申訴,我們接到以後,機關內部他自己會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4100.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4125.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
了解之後就直接發給主責的機關去處理當然這個部分如果民眾知道要比如說校園當然是屬於學校那如果是職場當然是勞動部然後如果是其他就是內政部這裡衛福部對不起衛福部但是如果說民眾搞不清楚沒有關係你只要提出申訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4127.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4134.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利及職業道德之培訓策進 立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4157.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4161.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
學校障礙。」我不知道教育部這邊有沒有一些因應的措施。好,我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4165.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4191.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
平常在老師跟學生互動過程應該可以觀察到學生的情緒行為各方面的表現那如果有發現異常的狀況應該介入關懷並且進一步了解是不是有輔導的需求那如果他不想要用學校的輔導機制教育部有什麼其他替代的資源我們可以提供有關屬於那個就診的一些諮詢跟服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4194.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4221.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這是我嘗試把各個拟出來我覺得現在我看到目前所有的業務單位整個的流程還是停留在性平三法修正之前所以也請只要相關的部會都要按照這樣子來做執行那謝謝司長那司長請回那部長也留著那再來就是請我們的代副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4230.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4235.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
但目前0-2歲的29萬人,托育中心跟保姆總數加起來5.7萬。看起來,現在110年資料還是看到托育的涵蓋率是38.5%,請問衛福部怎麼去增加這個量能,來完善我們雙薪家庭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4256.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4262.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
育兒環境。」目前我們托育涵蓋率服務的涵蓋率是38.05可是我們目前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4263.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4267.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4287.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4297.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
對、三十五所以在這個部分我們當然希望整個托育服務的涵蓋率還是要在如果要到三十五當然我們還要再提供比現在更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4298.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4326.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以我們會再來持續針對不管是保姆跟托嬰中心都能夠來積極的來組建我覺得也要看均等因為我覺得成相差異如果你提供的事實上是沒有辦法當然你會覺得這23%要送多少那我涵蓋率有38.5我覺得還是要去思考我們會來注意成相差距的問題這幾天一直在沸沸揚揚的就是我們很關心每一個孩子到了保姆家、到了托嬰中心、到了幼兒園到底安不安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4327.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4349.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那就要問目前托育中心的稽查又是提前預告沒有無預警抽查只要沒預警的方式的話那到底抽到的是真實現象嗎因為這是我從民間拿到的他們共同的一些問題點那再來就是居托人員如果違規 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4351.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4380.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
各地方的處置不太一樣怎麼處置不太一樣有的縣市開勸導單就明明是已經是違規你開勸導單而且有的縣市要求說你要輔導他三次都已經違反規定了你還輔導他三次難怪居托人員出了事情的時候中央你就會措手不及可是地方這樣子做的時候你們瞭不瞭解地方的做法是什麼地方有各自的做法那管得嚴的縣市呢那可能居托人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4381.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4396.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
行政委員會及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他職業部長及其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4398.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4403.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4419.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4448.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
是不是有落實退場機制還有防止我們黑心業者重啟爐灶在這邊定的是托育中心、托育家園在兩年內你若違反我們的兒少權法的規定的時候採取就不能夠也跟上講去年呢臺北市發生了一個案子也就是員長負責人對那個收托的孩子呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4449.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4478.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
強制猥褻。」那可是他有托育中心欸那為什麼他7月份已經事實上7月11已經被羈押可是他托育中心照樣同樣一個負責人持續的在在經營如果按照這樣違反兒少權法你不是應該就要去停止徵請他退准工嗎可是那也要問我們的副署長就是這個法規明定的不這麼清楚的時候那我不知道就是兩邊不勾結 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4479.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4506.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
然後呢我有托幼兒園我又有托育中心然後我照樣一樣那如果是都是他經營的話那怎麼會是他還是可以持續經營等到媒體揭發之後才說那要讓他那大家趕快換負責人這就是我們又是借師還魂的一種做法所以我不知道衛福部跟我們的教育部怎麼去處理這樣兩邊資料到底勾不勾結 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4507.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4520.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
其實是有勾結的我們是有定期的那個網路市長到底怎麼定期否則的話他已經是被羈押的狀態之後他的托育中心照樣就幼兒園即時的間接了 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4524.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4538.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他職位及其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4539.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4540.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4566.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4573.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
行政委員會及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4596.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4598.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
提供提供提供提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4620.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4631.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們希望提高托育量能,希望衛福部能完善准工退場機制,也希望勞動部提供人力物力補助,增加企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4634.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4635.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
行政委員會 提供提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4660.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4666.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
好,接下來我們請盧縣一委員進行質詢。主席有請市長吳林輝。好,請理事長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4690.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4717.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
委員好我們都知道原住民的問題都是比較屬於資源缺乏的地區那我們再審視一下我們現在公共托育家園來看我們幾乎80%都是設置在直小市非直小市只佔了兩成那我們原住民地區當然是在非直小市那剛剛看了那個比例38.05非常的羨慕因為我們常常都是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4718.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4736.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以我想問的是掛齡的部分目前掛齡的部分這個資料顯示有新竹、彰化、嘉義、台南、屏東跟花蓮這掛齡的部分叫做公社、民營、托嬰中心你們有沒有想辦法解決尤其是我們屏東縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4738.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4744.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
衛生福利部長、教育部長、教育部長、教育部長、教育部長、教育部長、教育部長、教育部長、 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4762.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4763.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
行政委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4768.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4772.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
進行專題報告：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部、教育部就:「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及托育人員專業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4794.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4818.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
其實我們在那個前瞻計畫裡面其實本來就是你如果有像在偏鄉可能是公共家園比較合適那其實我們都有這樣子的一個經費開辦費還有相關的秀善費可是沒有人申請嗎還是目前因為那個都是由縣市提出申請縣市去評估提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4818.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4843.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因為縣市還是比較清楚自己的支援的一個部件哪邊比較缺乏那當然這個部分我們可以再跟縣市來討論目前我們2到6歲的公共化教保設施的分布跟數量也都是集中在六都然後非營利幼兒園有65.52%也是集中在六都所以2到6歲的我們偏鄉也沒有比較好這個就請教育部來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4846.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4873.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這邊就跟委員說明一下就是我們目前公共化的那個資源部分我們其實一直都有在努力在做處理那至於那個偏向的部分其實專業偏向的部分它就除了公共化資源我們公立跟便利之外它本來因為都會區它本來需求大它當然是會比較集中那偏向的地方除了公立又有我們會設置之外那其實目前也有在福島去設置那我想知道的是你知道從這裡開車到福山里有多遠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4875.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4902.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
要多久的時間?不知道嗎?那如果從六龜到寶山你更不知道囉?應該兩三個小時要吧?那常常我們原住民地區的居住的部落的距離大概都是40分鐘以上那常常都是因為沒有公設的幼兒園或是托嬰中心那家長都一定要到外面工作那如果他勢必要在部落生活的話他就要接送小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4902.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4919.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那所以這個部分又是特偏遠地區希望你們一定要考慮經費的編列讓他們能夠成立他們的公設的一個幼兒園或者是托育中心可不可以這個跟委員說明一下就是我們目前公立部分我們偏遠一定會優先設 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4920.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4944.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那至於說有些部落他確實是有一些交通因素那我們也是會輔導我看到是每個學校幾乎都有幼兒園這2到6歲很像都有附設不過0到2歲的是0現在是完全沒有0到2是我們就衛福部的分工2到6是我們教育部處理但是2到6部分我們基本上偏向我們一定會努力去做處理你有聽過教保中心嗎有目前是幾家 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4944.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4961.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
目前13家我記得是在兩年前是11家現在13家也就是說它一年只增加了一家那全國原住民有多少個鄉鎮有沒有想過要怎麼把它迅速的給它補足呢應該是跟委員說明就是說不是說它不是普適的概念而是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4961.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4982.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們部落教保中心是針對說如果他那個地方他沒有公幼那或者是說他部落因為有交通或是他文化語言的需求他去設置所以我們目前有找兩個團體在輔導去設立部落中心那就會增加當地的需求目前是有找一個互助教保協會那還有找台中大學在協助做一個輔導設立的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4985.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5000.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那我知道比較成功的是屏東縣的平和部落那你如果說他非常成功的話你能不能請他們當作一個新興的一個所謂的教材或者說當個衛星老師去各個地區來做一個宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5006.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5016.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
每年定期進行偏鄉及原住民部落的教保需求調查第二、落實幼教法第10條回應偏鄉及部落教保需求調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5016.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5033.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
服務需求、增設部落互助式教保服務中心滿足偏鄉級部落2到6歲幼兒的教保服務需求。」第三個就是正式部落0到2歲公共托育家園的意願,因為0到2歲就是沒有這樣的資源,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5036.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5050.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
跟委員報告剛委員秀的那兩個部落其實我們現在本來就是希望在原來的2到6歲這個部分怎麼再去增加0到2歲的照顧就是我們知道在部落偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5051.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5079.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
實際上小孩沒有那麼多所以其實可以零到六做整合所以剛剛那兩個地方我們現在是先來做一個示範那如果可以的話就是未來教育部的大概什麼時候呢我可以給他們好消息嗎已經在討論在啟動已經有在啟動了在啟動對對那我們就希望從這兩個示範之後未來在偏鄉在原住民的地區我們可以零到6歲一起那我回去後就會問他們因為我住在那個社區喔是是是好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5083.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5087.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
好,謝謝。謝謝魯仙怡委員。接下來我們請廖偉祥委員進行質詢。主校,有請我們部長,許部長。好,請許部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5109.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5131.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
廖委員好部長你好許部長關於五一勞動節應該全國一致放假的這個議題從陳院長在開議後透過質詢回答說行政院會回去研議我想請教勞動部掌握的情形因為要考量到如果放假不一致對於家庭成員的生活安排尤其是育兒的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5132.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5158.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
譬如幼兒園老師放假但是家長沒放假那小孩要由誰來顧等問題還有五一勞工想要問說五一勞動節我們這個全國放假中央的態度是什麼報告委員這個部分行政院這裡已經邀請相關部會在做討論那看起來應該我記得院長好像態度是朝肯定的方向在做研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5160.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5189.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
所以你們肯定會往這個方向去那想要請問具體研議的結果的時程有嗎有沒有預計什麼時候希望完成因為這個是內政部主管所以你不太知道他們的那個對我這個部分比較不清楚我主要是勞動勞動部是勞工勞工現在已經放假OK當然我們也樂觀其成大家能夠一致放假所以你也是保持希望一致放假的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5190.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5208.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好,那部長昨天因為我也有質詢陳建仁院長有關我們電價調漲的一事但是看到我們執政黨已經鐵了心那四月份一定會大幅調漲我們的電價尤其是針對工業用電也想要請教部長電價大幅調高你會不會覺得瑟瑟發抖 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5211.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5239.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
報告委員因為現在缺工蠻嚴重的所以我覺得這個電價的上漲應該跟失業率的關聯應該不會那麼直接但我們會關注啦好因為我問這個問題就是希望因為我本席是非常憂心電價大幅調漲之後對我們勞動市場的影響也就是你剛剛說的會不會增加失業率那您覺得是不會增加的意思目前因為目前是缺工很嚴重缺工很嚴重所以看起來我 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5240.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5266.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
目前我覺得初步應該不會啦但是我們會關注啦我們會關注這個事情初步應該不會那您有這個過去有做這個研究嗎因為像我們2018年的時候電價有漲3%2022年7月漲了8.4%到了這個今年預計可能上漲超過11%因為工業用電可能會更可能會成長超過15%以上工業特大戶則可能成長兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5267.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5289.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那因為我想要了解的是說你們過去有沒有對於電價漲幅對失業率的影響有沒有做過專業的評估因為我要強調的是我國的產業特性尤其是低轉價能力跟高耗能產業這兩種產業可能是首當其衝那您覺得您知道高耗能以及低轉價能力通常會是哪些產業嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5296.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5324.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
同時符合這兩種產業是部分這個低毛利的電子業跟中小企業跟傳產等等所以我剛其實想要提醒部長的是因為過去也有漲過電價那不曉得說勞動部有沒有針對這件事情去做研究和評估因為我想現在是所有的中小企業還有家庭都很擔心漲電價這件事那當然漲電價跟經濟部啊等等的部會有關可是對於勞動部來講我們也是希望說您可不可以儘速評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5325.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5345.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
對於產業的衝擊以及有沒有一些啟動的保護措施?」是,包委我們這個議題我們會一定會關注啦那如果在事業部分我們當然有一些事業的協助措施倒是我跟委包我現在是比較在考慮是說這個電價調整那今年的基本工資的 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5347.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5375.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
調整可能這個就是要列入我們一個參酌的一個因素因為這個就會影響到整個勞工的實質薪資是不是能夠呼應到這個整個相關的消費的影響對所以針對這題我也是本席也想要進一步問就是說針對這件事情那你們對於今年基本公司調漲有沒有一個方向譬如說你是覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5377.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5394.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
就要研議部長嗎?還是要怎麼樣?現在因為我們最低工資法通過了我們會有一個研究小組我們研究小組的成員也出來了他會先針對一到三月的一些相關的數據做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5395.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5417.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
演繹之後會4月會提前提一個初步的報告那像這個電價齁他其實就是屬於CPI會跟CPI相連動所以這個部分到時候我們CPI數據也會考慮到電價調整的影響但是最後要怎麼做調整那要到第三季第三季 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5418.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5442.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
才會去做整體的一個考量然後勞資政學大家合以一起討論來決定是所以我覺得漲電價這件事情姿勢體大因為它甚至也會影響到不管是失業率或是你勞工調漲這個薪資基本薪資的部分所以邀請部長特別的去追蹤不要導致這個勞工權益的受損或者是導致失業率的問題所以希望回去好好研議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5443.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5455.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那再來部長依據我們勞基法第50條女性勞工應享有56天的產假那性別平等法也有類似的規定但實際上產假結束後女性勞工需要依靠傷病假續休 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5456.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5486.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
因為只有女性才能生小孩但把這個8週的產假用完後就只剩下以傷病假的名義來讓自己能夠安胎休養傷病假本來就是勞工依法來讓自己能夠安胎休養的這個權益但是我們發現因為不分男女都可以請這個傷病假但是卻只有婦女勞工會因為生產在額外扣到自己屬於自己的傷病假那請教部長您覺得這樣平等嗎這樣有做到這個婦女的工作權的保障嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5486.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5489.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對部長因為我國的產價規定遠低於國際勞工組織建議的14週所以請教部長當前政府對於更新產價政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5517.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5544.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
有何態度?」什麼時候會往我們的國際標準去...報告委員,其實我們的產價會比較...我們台灣是比較廣義啦吼,就含...就是懷孕期間的一些價啦吼,一些措施其實如果整個這樣是跟國際不會差太多但是...呃...我知道這一題很多委員都非常關注吼,那我覺得也...呃...應該對女性勞動者吼,有更友善的這些...呃...思考或作為吼,我們會來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5546.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5572.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
好,那請你們可以儘速演繹我們希望我們可以盡量的達到我們國際的標準那再來就是這一次的新法雖然將性別平等人才庫入法但想要請問部長這些優質的人才要去哪裡找我們現在有那個有一個人才庫對,你們是從哪裡就是你們這樣優質的人才要去往哪裡找 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5575.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5593.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
因為其實我也看了一下這個例行基金會的建議我們人才庫應該要設立更具體的規範與門檻定期的檢視我們專業人才資格而且並定定淘汰不適任者的機制才能夠完備與落實人才庫的目的請教部長這能夠做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5596.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5606.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
其實跟委員報告我們其實我們有訂定針對這些專業人才我們訂定一個因為你們現在只有16到24小時的這個這個授課的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5610.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5635.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
其實我們這個課程都跟團體討論過那因為其實也因為要上路時程其實蠻短的我們先已經就是跟團體討論對我了解是謝謝部長我講這一點只是希望提醒你們要回去追蹤一下要設立一個比較具體的門檻和追蹤的這個機制不然也有可能會造成更多的問題出現了解了解我們會滾動檢討讓這個更精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5639.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5658.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那我也是最後我趕快再提一個我是希望可以提倡我們的彈性上班、獎勵友善企業其實我剛剛也看到有委員也有這個提議所以我也是希望說這個部分是請部長回去盡快的跟專家學者研議之後看是不是可以在一個月或兩個月內提出報告給本席好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5665.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5685.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那個等一下蘇星泉委員質詢結束休息5分鐘現在請王月明委員進行發言我們請蘇星泉委員代主席謝謝好我們是不是請部長部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5693.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5717.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
部長好,部長我想最近因為發生移工的子女生病不敢看醫生然後這樣的一個重大惡虐案件大家從這個個案其實更關心的是到底還有多少這種移工子女目前在臺灣沒有辦法獲得一個好的安置跟照顧那如果我們從監察院的一個報告來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5719.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5743.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那之前其實有糾正勞動部就是你們在作為上面其實應該要更積極那我們也看到事實上以臺灣引進這麼大量的一個移工那這個他們這種懷孕生子的情況坦白講是蠻普遍的就是在你們這個整個的每一年懷孕的產檢的人數都幾乎超過5000人對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5748.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5774.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
本席拿到的數據大概都超過五千人那領取生育給付離境的這個大概是六成到七成之間也就是說有一些移工他懷孕產子之後他其實也沒有離境他就繼續留在臺灣而留在臺灣只有兩種可能一種是我們的政府對他的孩子很好他可以邊工作然後邊照顧他的孩子一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5775.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5795.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
另外一種他可能就會被迫就是說因為他有小孩他們不容易轉換雇主所以就變成是逃逸的這個移工然後帶著孩子躲躲藏藏而剛剛我聽到你在回復委員的時候你說事實上這個黑戶有高達一萬八千戶二十年來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5797.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5820.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
就是有18000戶,那近幾年這個本席看到的數據109年1月到112年9月是1349人嗎?那我關心的是黑戶寶寶,就是這是浮上檯面的喔,那可能還有潛在的,我們不知道的,那到底被監察院糾正完之後我們的積極作為是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5821.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5850.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
然後你們自己有沒有去看到底我們真的改善了多少如果說這個上個禮拜還出現這種托育工他自己不敢出面然後還要有人然後再送到關愛之家再由關愛之家再送到醫院那你就從一個個案就可以看到說他們的處境有多麼的艱難就是作為爸爸或媽媽孩子生病不敢親自帶著他上醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5851.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5873.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那這樣的情況我們要怎麼解決呢?我們要怎麼保障呢?我覺得這個不會只是引力啊。對,跟委員報告齁,因為黑戶寶寶的問題就是我剛才回答就是說其實是要跨部會來處理啦齁。那你現在覺得哪個部會沒有到位?因為像剛剛委員講的啊。主責,你們現在我問一個,主責單位是誰?應該是市民吧?衛福部。現在黑戶寶寶是衛福部啊?是,是衛福部。好,那理事長上來講? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5880.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5902.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你們引進的勞工,然後變成是衛福部要來收攤子。」來,次長你說。對不起,我們是針對黑戶寶寶有一個課部會的一個還有限制一個聯繫平台,那最重要是針對他是沒有人照顧,然後有被通報出來還是團體協助,那這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5904.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5908.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
為社政提供相關協助。」所以你們主責?那你們有沒有主動去掌握現在到底還有多少的這些黑戶寶寶?那你要怎麼去找到他們?你要透過什麼樣的機制讓他們真的可以跟政府接上線?或是透過什麼間接的方式?比如說你現在跟關愛之家合作,那合作的量有多大? |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5929.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5955.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們現在服務的只有幾分之幾,你們有掌握嗎?那針對現在服務還不到位的到底更積極的一個處遇方式是什麼?比如說之前我們在防疫期間防疫期間就有一個類似特色的條款就是說你雖然是逃逸的移工你來打疫苗我都不會查你的身分你就放心來打吧那現在我看到的是移工如果有小孩那個壓力真的是倍增 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5956.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5975.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那他怎麼樣就是真的有勇氣或者是你們透過怎麼樣的溝通讓他真的放心說我不會去追究你先把孩子顧好孩子只要生病送到醫院媽媽你可以帶來沒有關係你的身份不會被暴露我也不會去追究你我不會請移民署來抓你 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5976.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6000.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這一個你們有做嗎?有做得很細膩嗎?如果說之前還有都必須一直透過關愛之家這樣做的話我覺得在移工的心裡他們就是有一種很大的不安全感怕被發現、怕被遣返那你們怎麼處理?我想說我們確實因為有多少個黑戶寶寶這個部分我們社政往往都是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6001.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6004.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
行政院及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平等及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6010.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6033.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
可能還包括移民署包括勞動部如果有掌握的話那怎麼樣子我們現在在行政院討論確實在講就是說怎麼樣子鼓勵這些可能是黑戶寶寶讓他們可以父母親願意把他帶出來那你們討論的真的有點慢啊這個問題其實已經存在一段時間那我直接問你行政院有哪一個政委來主導這件事有兩個政委在主在負責那多久開會一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6037.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6066.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我們現在是看那個各個單位要做的事情的一個進度其實這件事情你們用這種臨時性的方式是解決不了問題的我剛剛講如果每年都有五千位的移工他懷孕領取我們的生育給付的話那你就要知道說這已經變成常態性的問題他也不是個案他也不是特例當我們大量引進這些移工的時候你就要正視說這個部分就是要一個專責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6067.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6083.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
日常性的處理,而不是像你們這樣,你們是用臨時召集的一個專案的方式來面對,這個解決不了問題。」所以我要求,是不是你們回去跟行政院報告,在這件事情怎麼樣從體制內,真的有專人,就好好來處理這一塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6084.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6103.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
要不然我覺得我們也對不起這些乙工我們讓他來台灣工作但是他在台灣生了小孩之後的權益我們卻是沒有辦法給他應有的保障我們講究我們是人權國家每一個孩子在我們台灣這片土地他都應該得到一個好的保護跟照顧包括乙工的小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6103.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6128.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
所以這個部分我要求改善好了那個市長請回接下來我要問的是有關於社福移工跟產業移工他們的這個福利待遇是不一樣產業移工他現在生育給付是沒有問題的但是社福移工如果他懷孕的話就本席所知現在他是沒有辦法申請生育給付的部長同樣都是移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6129.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6133.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那社福移工完全懷孕就沒有生育給付? |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6159.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6177.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
是沒有看到這個現象,沒有想要去解決嗎?因為我們現在多的是家庭看護的這一些移工啊。我要求齁,因為我時間有限啦,部長,你這個部分你必須回去研議。你自己勞動部坦白講也很有錢啦,你們基金很多啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6177.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6199.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
在各項基金裡面應該拿出一筆就針對這個部分就補貼了他的生育給付而不是說你今天就是到家庭那就是你自己運氣比較好我們沒有辦法到了這個企業的這個產業移工沒有關係進了機構也可以幫忙那你就是漏掉一塊嘛這個部分要處理要解決部長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6201.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6224.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
你回去演繹我們來演繹看看好那最後就是那個有關於勞工育兒我們現在看到的就是公務人員跟勞工還是差很大在有薪的家庭照顧假這個公務人員可以併這個有薪的試駕完全沒有問題他們還有幼兒照顧假每年7天就是6歲以下的 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6225.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6239.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
他都可以但是現在在勞工是無薪的家庭照顧假也沒有幼兒照顧假部長你作為勞工的大家長你要怎麼樣來縮短這樣的一個差距有在研議嗎因為主要是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6244.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6258.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
錢的問題那我們現在少子化可不可以跟企業溝通或是在我們的這個立法院裡面大家討論出共識我們現在少子化那至少從家裡面有6歲以下的幼兒先執行嗎?不行嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6260.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6286.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為之前大家談到的是所有勞工所有的對象所以那個經費很高我在之前擔任立法委員的時候就有分析過如果你把它切到是六歲以下的孩子的話你經費可以就是大概三分之一雇主的負擔其實沒那麼重我們就逐步來實施嘛從可以做的開始做這一點我請部長你回去再研議這個也是回應我們少子化的問題好不好另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6286.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6302.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
另外一個是在企業的部分這個本席在過去擔任立委的時候也是下修就是說我們的企業一百人以上的要設置托兒的措施或者是設施但是幾年下來了我們現在看到施行的狀況不理想 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6304.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6333.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
真正有設置的就是到1%、1.2%那這個真的是比例太少那多數大概就是少數的津貼就這樣交差了事了臺灣我們其實還有很多這個營運很好的企業坦白講他們是有能力的也應該做或者是包括我們的政府機關這麼龐大政府機關也應該做勞動部自己本身有設有有齁好那你們做了很好的示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6334.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6344.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那這個部分我覺得推動也是太弱了我們一直講掃紙化我們一直希望說建構一個更友善的托育環境但是在企業這一塊在機關這一塊這個營運能力很強的這一些比較大的企業或者是機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6350.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6376.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
其實是速度非常緩慢。」那這一塊呢我希望這個部長你要放在心裡就是照顧孩子的工作不是只有衛福部的工作勞動部可以發揮非常大的能量因為多數的勞工跟企業其實聽你們的不聽衛福部的啦所以你們應該要握有行政權就好好善用那行政權好不好就是一起來建構一個更友善的環境謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6378.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6379.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
好,謝謝王委員,謝謝部長。接下來我們請圖全級委員進行咨詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6408.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6411.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好,請我們勞動部部長。好,許部長,請問一下,你們報告中,勞動部針對我們完善職場的育兒環境,很多的重點都放在我們的受僱者、勞工還有僱主身上,那當然這些措施跟法律上我們看起來是沒有什麼問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6433.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6459.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
可是我們對於支持家庭育兒、我們托育人員的培訓還有相關精進的這些部分我們看提到的部分很少那請問一下我們上面有提到我們托育人員技術事證我們勞動部有發出的19.3萬張對不對?是那你有了解過這麼多人中他事實上有去職業的有多少?職業的喔這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6462.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6468.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
就是領到這麼多技術市政然後真正有從事這個工作的人有多少?我請署長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6470.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6496.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
跟委員報告,我們技術試證因為就能力鑑定,那取得這個托育人員的證照之後我們目前就是如果他有意願從業的話,我們會把相關資料提供給衛福部,就是說相關的後續我的重點在於說,我們有授訓拿到這個技術試證可是19.3萬張,據我們調查資料了解,真正有下去從事的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6497.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6522.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
職業的就是有去做這個工作的大概只有2.7萬也就是總共只佔了14%所以本來人就不多可是真正下去做的人又更少只達十幾%所以我們針對這一部分我們也了解到我們2.7萬就是有下去從事這個行業的保姆2.7萬中我們調查我們看一下我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6523.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6547.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
領域及社會福利部長、教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教育部長及教� |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6553.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6555.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
育有三歲以下的女性的參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6557.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6586.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
就是有參與我們事業的勞參率有高達7成也就是調查過我們在113年底我們可能要再增加4千位的托育人員所以我覺得這是非常嚴重的警訊總共只有2.7萬人2.7萬人馬上陸陸續續有1萬6千人在這5年10年都會退休而且今年年底還要再增加4千人請問一下針對這托育人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6588.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6610.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個虛材恐急,我們勞動部也沒有什麼比較精進的作為。這個可能會涉及到跨部會,包括教育部它有關於托育的系所的學生的招生。不是,我們現在沒有針對這個部分。當然,就是剛剛您講的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6615.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6638.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
職業人數不多因為很多來報考的人他其實可能也是自己考自己照顧自己的所以我說部長你們這個部分因為我說看你們的報告真的看不到針對這托育人員這人才有嚴重不足你發出19.3萬張真正在做從事的只有2.7萬這2.7萬裡面超過50歲的有1萬6千人 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6645.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6659.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那等於說陸陸續續就有一萬六千人退休而且經過調查今年年底還要再補進四千人所以你馬上可以面臨這個托育人員是嚴重的不足可是看不到你們的報告針對這部分有做任何的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6660.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6673.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
報告委因為我們其實每年的報考人數都有一萬多人就是說有退可能也有進有退也有進那其實像這個報考你看這個50歲以上其實還蠻適合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6675.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6702.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
他的自己的穩定﹖所以部長我是希望我希望這個未雨綢繆現在已經馬上可以預期這是嚴重不足現在就不足馬上要退那麼多人年底算起來又要再增加那麼多人根本看不到你們有任何的措施而且最近發生這個額虐的事件這對保姆我相信再叫他們從業我覺得對他們的事蹟也是很大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6703.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6705.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員這沒有問題,只要有需求,我們每年其實培訓兩千多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6727.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6743.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們這個培訓都沒有問題都可以配合需求我希望這個還是要加強因為這所有的數據顯示是嚴重的不足而且面臨馬上退的跟現在要增加的根本都趕不上只會這個人愈缺愈多 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6744.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6770.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那還有剛剛你大概有提到因為上次你來拜訪的時候大概有跟你談過因為我們希望針對這托育人才的供給像我們有很多的民間有反應像很多來台就讀幼保科相關科系的可是他畢業以後都沒有辦法留下來那現在針對我們這個托育人才的供給我們針對畢業橋外的留台工作是不是針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6771.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6792.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這個救福法這一般外國人從事專門性或技術性的工作我們是不是可以研議有一個什麼方法能夠讓這些人留下來來補充托育人員的不足報告委員這個只要把他納入專門技術性人員就可以了那這個部分必須衛福部一起來會商認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6793.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6810.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好 這個我會臨時提案那希望我們針對這部分來研議我覺得我們勞動部跟衛福部好好的來解決這方面的問題那當然我也希望還有增加我們新住民專班也希望能夠在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6812.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6838.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
進行職業的培訓也能夠讓他們去取得培育人員技術性的證照新住民專班看可不可以開這個專業課程來補這個人才的不足這個好像現在有了吧?都有喔?托育人員其實我們都鼓勵不管新住民那我們有開這個班嗎?有現在有開嗎?針對新住民專班來開這個托育人員的技術性證照取得的這個職業訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6841.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6852.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
希望這部分我們來加強一下因為面臨人才嚴重的不足應該要未雨綢繆趕快趕快來提出一些具體的方案那還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6853.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6877.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們之前我們賴清德副總統在選舉的時候他那個老宅也就是我們俗稱賴皮寮那當傳這個風風雨雨過去可是當初我們也是我們的準總統當初有說要針對這個老宅來做礦工生活紀念館那剛好現在在新北瑞芳有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6878.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6897.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
由民間自動發起的猴童礦工文史館。」然後馬上6月底就面臨可能租約到期經營不善的問題他們也發起了一個許我一座公立礦工博物館是不是針對這一部分我們勞動部可不可以給予一些協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6898.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6910.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
奧委員,這次活動我去過啦相關的協助我之前也都有幫忙但這個管產權的問題我了解是新北,這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6911.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6928.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那個文化部在協助處理就是有關於這個管的部分因為文史管是屬於全職機關在文化部我知道文化部有在幫忙所以部長針對這部分你有去了解嗎有有有我也希望說我們勞動部針對這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6930.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6930.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
是否能給予協助? |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6950.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6969.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好,所以我這邊也建議昭緯,如果有機會我們這個考察行程的時候可以去這個我們猴童礦工的師館對,這個我去了兩三次了,蠻值得看的那到時候部長順便再幫我們說明一下因為我覺得這個居然他有提出這方面的需求其實可以跨部邀文化部一起來啊對,那由勞動部來主導嘛,然後邀請相關部會來把這個倡議支持的行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6977.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6999.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為照顧支持礦工我相信也是屬於我們勞動部的業務那也希望讓我們這個礦工會讓他們感受到我們勞動部及我們這些周邊大家都有相當的人在關心他們、支持他們我們環境教育也有部裡面環境教育也特別安排去這裡那這部分希望勞動部再來幫忙推動一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7005.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7006.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
蘇清泉議員蘇清泉議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7028.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7047.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我看你勞動部跟衛福部有一些都牽扯不清你接業務他們要負責他們接業務你要負責我們現在少子化越來越嚴重去年死亡的19萬多人生小孩生13萬而且這個缺口我看要不好補你勞動部拚到要死 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7056.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7069.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
現在的年輕人你叫他做阿嬤、小孩子兩個人都要上班,兩個都要上班啊結果這個小孩子要請保姆看到最近這樣亂搞一通,怕就死啊你不想生,要怎麼辦?衛生部要怎麼辦?謝謝委員,其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7077.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7105.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
您的檢討也看到說這個事件對民眾、對專業人員的信任有產生一些衝擊那我們當然就希望把我們提出來的這些精進的作為就是從中央到地方好好的落實來重拾民眾對這些專業人員的信心啊對您的帽子是不是編織得很好?像我們東港的鯰魚的帽子這樣帽子很漂亮但是每一顆都破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7106.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7131.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
老妾妾每一個都露街保母大部分都很好但是這樣你看雙胚、花生、連恆春都有我跟你報告這幾天有家庭兒童學的專家還有兒童心理學的專家他們講得非常好我等一下會講給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7135.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7159.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個凱凱的事件我們在醫學上叫做RCA就是尋根之旅我很用心的去看這個小孩子凱凱被送到萬芳醫院的時候這萬芳醫院自己要警醒齁那個陳姓的社工跟劉姓的保姆那劉姓保姆姊妹都是換名換姓改名改姓喔阿你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7160.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7175.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們知道他有改名,可是不管他有沒有改名,其實我們的系統是用身分證,所以其實交集資格不管有沒有改名都是可以查得到的。那那個小孩子送到急診室的時候,已經撬起來了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7177.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7198.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
然後這個社工跟保姆跟醫師講說這個小孩子是他外祖母在照顧那送到保姆這邊的時候是義奶一年了要做治療所以送來幾件事社工聯手保姆騙醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7202.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7222.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那說他現在聯絡不到外祖母所以由他們兩個來處理希望能夠行政項驗不要解剖已經向這個凱凱的外祖母報告過請問這個社工他知道這件事嗎?他知道實情嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7225.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7248.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
市長你也不知道其實這個案子是醫院有通報所以醫院也有看到相關的他是通報額內嗎是是是通報額內剛剛我們委員在講彭婉如基金會我非常的欽佩彭婉如女士彭婉如女士的先生是誰你知道嗎台大教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7252.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7281.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
他就說我們的政務委員、政務委員零萬億不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7283.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7291.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以這個怎麼處理?報告委員,其實我們的公部門在社安網的聘用社工的薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7293.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7321.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
跟我們的公務人員其實沒有太大的一個差距那在私部門就是中央補助給民間團體的社工我們在今年其實也幫社工加薪提高了8.16%所以現在的初任的社工大學一畢業他的薪資是到三萬七千多那未來我們這個調薪的制度已經也制度化了這只要未來公務人員調漲我們補助給民間的社工也會一併調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7322.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7349.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那也是這幾年來其實衛福部也一直在積極地來改善我們的勞動條件我前天那個跟薛部長諮詢我是說這小孩子要照顧原生家庭最好是這個愷愷阿嬤照顧好小孩但是就沒錢經濟情況啊經濟不好你就幫他保經濟就好了你不是要搞什麼聯盟啊NGO啦我看這些聯盟NGO很多都是在磨柴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7351.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7377.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
然後這些這麼糟糕的保姆是在害命又一個磨柴一個害命艾爾利集團的總裁說這個是人神共憤說他不要管錢啦管一千多萬給兒童聯盟捏那我們董事長也沒事啦那是有夠不要臉啦都文翁不動這像話嘛你們都完全沒有督促沒有什麼機制嗎?市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7381.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7388.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
對於那個基金會的話因為他是跟教育部立案的文教基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7389.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7416.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
所以在整個董事會的監督還有他們的財務狀況就是要麻煩教育部看能不能去去做什麼樣一個督導那在人員業務這個部分是我們衛福部的責任我們會我們也會都持續的來做相關的出洋有獎金可以拿然後要找要找個借的兩萬五的他就他就給他我看他沒有在在在在做什麼後續的審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7418.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7438.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
然後轉來轉去好像又有KPI是不是又有獎金可以拿是不是怎麼這樣搞的呢沒有沒有他們是在整個收養過程的部分的時候分階段跟收養家庭有收費對所以這個是很糟糕的事情另外一個我比較concern的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7439.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7453.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
兩國兒童公約說小孩子成長不要跟父母親分開那這些女的受刑人我去高雄女子監獄去那裡特見那全世界在 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7455.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7481.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就帶著小孩進去服刑帶著小孩去監獄服刑的做得很好的根據兒童公約是瑞典丹麥俄羅斯也做得很好普丁不錯美國有8個州做得很好那我要跟大家報告的是我要跟你報告的是你這個孩子你讓他等到外面 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7484.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7486.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
二、邀請勞動部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7504.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7510.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7523.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7528.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
用婚給娶啊,娶的生殖器官,把她燒到額頭,把她講到骨折,打到腦出血,搖晃什麼什麼都來,這真的是慘絕人寰,這真的是惡魔,魔鬼。跟委員報告目前的矯正署在女子監獄, |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7542.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7542.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
行政委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7562.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7573.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
而拒絕的。我跟大家報告在離子監獄裡面的受刑人85%以上都是跟毒品有關是是在男的監獄裡面我常常去坐監車我很穿車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7576.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7582.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
在男的監獄裡面要嘛就是會選的啦要嘛跟毒品有關的差不多七成而女的是85以上升到90所以這些都是違罪嘛所以小孩子今天跟媽媽一起長大但是我們台灣的資源那麼豐富我們是整個都破碎化你關一個、我關一個、你關一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7599.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7625.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
這是很糟糕的事情能不能用一個時間內把這個事情統合起來我覺得沒有能力就去國外看一看去北歐看看去美國州看看去俄羅斯看也不錯啊去看看人家怎麼做我想臺灣可以做得非常好好不好我們會跟蔣正署再來一件重要的多久多久會有一個初步檔案給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7627.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7642.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個法務部不在現場那報告委員他們有在做然後他們甚至已經到兩歲若小孩子願意去幼兒園其實也可以去幼兒園現在閒置的國小每一間就撤掉那個都可以用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7643.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7644.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這兩天都碰到好多個了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7673.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7696.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那次長請問,我要問部長最後一個問題這個是澄清案啦齁,剛剛有跟你們講了齁你們要招考人員招考完,然後公告證取然後叫人家辭職,然後叫人家辭職趕快報到然後又一通電話說,勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7700.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7705.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
臺南市政府委託你們,你們南區代管、代訓,結果你們跟人家講說不行。職安署,你一個閉上眼睛 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7721.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7740.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
報告委員,這個一開始是台南市政府弄錯,因為這個要檢察院他必須要符合資格啦,你要是不符合這個就,我們依照法令就沒有辦法來...正式公告、正式入局,什麼乙級、丙級,那個有什麼了不起,那個再考就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7741.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7749.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那可以這樣子嗎?可以這樣幹嗎?部長,可以這樣嗎?公告,轉席給他們知道,然後討論都實施了。什麼實施啊?這我這兩天發生的事情。好好的補救好不好?查清楚好不好?好,這種事情喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7761.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7788.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
發生在這個年代我是覺得匪夷所思是不是有貓膩還是他們要禁用別人還是有拿到什麼好處台南市政府這個很糟糕的用人不是我們的你反對啊資格不符資格不符你招生你客氣的時候你都沒有公告你都沒有說你這什麼主席你到底在說什麼部長不行聽不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7792.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7793.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好,現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8224.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8227.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 我們繼續開會接下來我們請劉建國委員進行質詢好 謝謝主席先請衛部次長好 請理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8246.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8264.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
委員好市長好市長辛苦了我想周一的時候市長跟部長也都在委員會嘛市長應該有聽到我跟部長在檢討這個過程我一直覺得這個保護網基本上是有把這個小朋友接住不是漏掉那是怎麼會在這個安全的保護網裡面他反而被這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8267.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8284.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這麽殘忍以致於虐待死亡。」我覺得有很多的面向要討論那部長也允諾嘛事實上還有些很多的地方要有盲點甚至也提到說有專家、學者及地方的政府反對相關的修法所以那天我特別說那就可以請趙偉來排專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8285.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8315.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
或是這個公聽會大家一起來討論這是第一件事情那第二件事情有兩個部分我想也再跟次長做討論一下就是說請次長看一下這個這個是新北市社會局在2011年左右的時候就已經呼籲民眾雞婆多一點社會問題就少一點但是如果看到這一次的改革案件我們覺得又格外的諷刺為什麼這麼說因為就是有民眾聽到應有的提呼聲的時候卻沒有進行通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8316.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8344.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這一個是相關的報導到底是我們社會出了什麼問題因為政府是長期來宣導民眾說要吉婆一點所以也有鄰居說成人小孩子的哭聲但是為什麼這個鄰居沒有吉婆來通報為什麼台灣社會會讓我們遇到這種事情變得不吉婆那政府一直在宣導要吉婆 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8345.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8362.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個就是很大的衝突跟矛盾再請社長開一個社論這是在某一個民眾在投稿某家的這個論壇的時候有特別提到他標題又寫著滅童案、雞婆有用嗎?這是在3月16的時候內容我大概上 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8364.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8390.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
練一段,就是說他在住家附近有一八十多歲的老戶女兒常因細菇對他怒聲斥責。他有一次看到他的女兒在花園走到用拖鞋暴打他,他就立即撥打了113專線通報。那社工就回答他說已經做成紀錄,會在適當的時機加訪,還主護他有劣勢的狀況可以先報警,再由社工單位介入,效果會更好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8391.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8414.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
聽起來好像有道理然後他又發現這個老人家後來的眼睛無清腫脹小腿有受傷包紮聊天才知道孫子也對他施暴會故意的推倒或惡意絆倒或整天攘著要他媽媽把外婆趕走這個老戶還特別叮嚀這個投訴者說別伸張以免他遭受到更惡劣的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8416.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8437.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
他覺得事態嚴重,便暴行處理。警察也去了,就告誡這個女兒不得再有這個類似行為但這個女兒停不了幾天就固態腹猛,甚至以變本加厲已經通報了兩次了,他覺得他已經深感無力也只能眼睜睜的看這個老戶驚恐表情與日復一日的持續狩獵我講這兩個事情是要給 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8442.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8463.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
給職場做個辛苦當然我們知道相關單位可能要業務量繁多沒有辦法兼顧到每一個個案這個我們都很清楚但是像有人願意雞婆而且雞婆起事之後卻變成熱臉貼冷屁股那這個問題又出來了那我們要怎麼樣把這個微小還是說確實它已經發生了這麼嚴重的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8466.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8484.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
一個一個一個實際上的這個這種這種行為的時候不管通知社政不管通知警政卻得不到一個好的一個處方式我不想要說這個再不處理那下一次衛福委員會的專報那可能就是就會變成一個主題了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8485.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8503.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
來,請次長。好,謝謝委員,就是用這兩個案子來提醒我們。其實像我們最近保護服務室確實也發現一個現象,就是被對尊的這樣一個肆虐的情形是案件是增加的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8503.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8522.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以本來就是有針對社工在對於對尊的這樣一個失戀的相關的一個敏感度跟失戀這個部分有在強化他們的職能那如果以這個案子來講的話其實這個他們應該要去評估到說如果這個老媽媽已經被失戀 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8522.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8551.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那在家庭當中是不是有在被施暴的風險其實呃這個承認的施暴也是有緊急安置緊急保護的一個措施對所以我是覺得說這個部分就是說怎麼樣子要有加一個呃敏感度之能以及我想說我們還是要來敦促社會政府就是確實我們看到有一些縣市政府他們在對安置資源的部件是比較缺乏的有可能就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8551.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8581.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
安置的資源不足的情況之下所以社工沒有辦法做這樣一個緊急安置那這個部分我們會就是會再來持續我想說我們都會有一些指標啦只是說這些指標縣市能不能怎麼樣來督導他們落實的這個強度我們應該會來加強對就簡單講就是說這一個妻婆的人已經通報了社政那社政的處置是這樣通報了警政警政的處置又這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8582.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8583.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以這個事情我覺得可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8584.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8612.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
衛福部這邊要承擔起更大的責任督導的責任要特別加重可安置為什麼你不去做安置可怎樣做應變你為什麼不去做應變不然這樣的憾事會一件一件又發生這請次長是特別可能要全面來再做重新一個檢討那第二件事情都有相連性回到我們今天探討這個保姆的制度有律師在臉書上的潑文說送嬰托兒的感覺好像在抽盲盒看誰會先中獎然後誰運氣不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8614.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8630.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
就會被低級的錯誤、惡意、虐待、奪去寶寶的性命。而少華已經排除了性剝削、毒品、暴力、罪行不得擔任保姆,但是這都必須在判決之後。那政府才會消極的取消這個保姆資格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8630.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8656.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
有沒有更積極的做法?這個案件中有很多鄰居站出來說這個保姆有黑歷史我想這個也是在事後不僅凱凱的小朋友之前其他在孩童照顧不當的情況之下這個保姆對外籍義工更頻繁的更換而且還傳聞有虐待義工的情勢奇怪接訪鄰居都知道唯獨地方政府不知情 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8657.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8681.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以民眾在找保姆的時候好像只能瞎子摸象然後我們再看到我們衛福部的托育沒有平台這個實在是有夠兩光的這你們做的嘛托育平台沒有照片沒有名字OK因為各自是不是對嘛各自嘛是是他有同意嘛對阿他的手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8687.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8712.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
他的托育服務地址也是他同意那登記證的編號技術證編號年齡45到50歲然後下面的托育環境通通沒有所以他只要不同意所以通通就不用拖 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8715.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8736.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個托育平台是誰設計的嘛?是公部門嘛,對不對?對嘛,然後我們完全要遵照他他只願意公佈手機、公佈證號、公佈托育的服務住址其他他不公佈你就完全要尊重他連我要去看這樣的一個基本資料我要聘的人、聘這個保姆我就可以看到這些然後你說因為各自的關係這個太牽強了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8740.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8755.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
應該是說我們目前因為這個平台也是政府主動去做都不是依法的一個授權啊政府主動去做都不是一個依法的授權不是法律政府在違法不是不是沒有授權所以就 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8755.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8757.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
進行專題報告：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生福利部長、衛生福利部長、教育部就 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8772.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8792.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
托育專法,我們可以再來審慎的考量一下。」就是說哪些部分我們接下來可能是要保姆一定要來揭露的這個部分。我覺得這個部分確實在整個個資的這個部分是還是要有法律的一個授權,我們才能夠比較是強制的要求保姆的一個配合,對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8793.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8819.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個部分我們在這次修法的時候我們會把它考量進來因為時間的關係後面還有兩個題目我覺得當這個是政府所設計的一個托育平台的情況之下他就必須要非常嚴謹加慎重要給聘僱的家長甚至於機構都有一個參考的一個好的平台但是如果這個平台是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8821.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8846.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
這交代不過去啦我覺得我們在修法之前還沒有完我覺得我們可以來檢討你要放上去我們提供這個平台你要放上去那你就要按照我們的規定來做你才可以放我覺得這個也是一個要求我覺得這個是真的要趕快來檢討好不好另外一個針對保姆的住居是不是有一個我們不能來設計一個就是logo |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8848.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8875.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這個保姆的住居裡面有外面有個logo我們就很清楚他可能必須要比較有一個左右鄰居就知道說這邊是有保姆在照顧小朋友的地方他必須要比較有鄰近的一個環境那甚至有聽到小朋友這個經常的很奇怪的那種啼哭聲的時候他們會有預警他們也會適時的來來做一個就雞婆的動作這個我們可能還是要帶回去再看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8876.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8887.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
提高鄰居的警覺性,我想有其必要,不要像這一次接訪鄰居通通知情,結果政府都不知道。」主席我再請一下許部長,一分鐘就好。來許部長請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8905.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8929.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
部長,這個保姆是從一百零年開始聘僱外籍家庭傍用到了一百一十二年的時候發生這個事情又威脅移工不得出庭替凱凱作證因而被廢聘,我掌握的訊息是這樣這個期間一二到一零一這個保姆換了將近十年的外籍傍用 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8930.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8932.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
平均一年換一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8950.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8955.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
以後這種頻繁的,我們應該要略為高風險去仿視。今天如果我們有預警到這個事情,是不是這個顧主席保姆有虐待外籍醫工,其實凱凱的事情可能就不會發生。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8972.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8999.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
報告委員,謝謝您,我們這邊會來加強訪視我們的訪察員,我們會針對這種平凡換移工的那個僱主來加強他訪視的…我掌握到這個訊息的時候,部長我真的非常驚訝10年換10個,不到1年換1個老公署給我的本辦的資料是這樣,說10人除了約滿到期外,還有合意解約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9001.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9025.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
當我們在討論要處理印度義工的時候,勞動部都至於說外籍勞工來台灣會很珍惜工作機會嘛,對不對?做一年,做不到一年就要換工作,他很不珍惜。他什麼理由?他什麼理由合意要離開?怎麼會隨便的合意要解約?我們怎麼會沒有注意到? |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9026.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9050.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這個部分我們也會跟地方政府一起來努力啦因為解約驗證是在地方政府的執行那這部分我們也會來做提醒那是那個訪視的部分一個關懷機制、一個訪視機制、一個預警機制嘛今天如果我們提早在這10年內我們提早到其中有一個被他更換掉的外籍移工可能在聘僱過程裡面他不敢講嘛但是他合意解約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9051.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9072.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
之後我們是一下去了解他為什麼要不到一年時間他就要離開問一個問不出來問兩個問不出來十年內就有十個問三個或許又問出來了長期受虐或許就我剛才講的不會有下一個移工再受虐不會有改革事件發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9077.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9086.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
好 謝謝劉建國委員那等一下林淑芬委員質詢結束後我們就處理臨時提案接下來我們請黃秀芳委員質詢謝謝主席我們請那個次長李次長好李次長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9101.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9125.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
委員好市長好市長我相信這幾個禮拜大家一直在討論就是我們的這個托育的環境那我想請教就是說在去年這個總統跟立委選舉的時候我相信不論是總統候選人或者是立委這個候選人都有提出很多的有關的這個托育的政策那我想請教就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9126.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9146.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
有關我們目前的這個育兒的相關的政策,衛福部這邊也很多,有的是補助,可能就是補助,那這個補助其實剛剛很多委員就是說臺灣這樣少子化,其實如果說一直是用補助的方式,可以解決這個少子化的問題嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9148.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9152.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
經濟壓力的問題在我們相關的一個調查還是那個年輕父母親很重視的一個部分所以我們當然是透過整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9163.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9188.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
經濟的一個補助,能夠來減輕家長的一個負擔。」那我們看到就是說衛福部這邊也補助了,不論是從0到2歲,或者是2到4歲,甚至在幼兒園的時候,其實都有補助嘛。那當然這個補助對年輕朋友來講應該多多少少有一些注意。那我看到我們的生育率還是很低啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9189.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9214.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那感覺好像也是沒有起色啊那去年還剩下13萬這每一年都一直在減少那你們針對除了補助之外你們有什麼樣的政策可以讓年輕人覺得說政府來減輕他的經濟負擔之外那整個這個托育的這個環境也改善讓他願意生敢生 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9216.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9233.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
在整個托育這個的部分的話我想除了那個托育補助之外其實我們都很積極的在佈建所謂的公共化跟準公共化因為就近讓父母親可以就近就找到品質好的一個托育的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9234.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9263.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
一個場域其實也是非常重要那另外其實也跟勞動部一直在推動職場那如果有有可以讓父母親帶著孩子一起去上班這也是對年輕的這些父母親來講也是會一個有幫助的一個地方我想說怎麼樣子把托育資源佈建得更完整這個部分我們會持續來努力那最近的一個少子女化的一個檢討可能在看到就是說我們年輕人可能不是不敢生而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9264.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9267.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
結婚的結婚率收下降,如何鼓勵年輕朋友? |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9287.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9315.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個部分因為整個少子女化對策是行政院這邊有政委在做跨部會的一個協調那確實我們現在各部會也都在繼續的在繼續的演繹滾動的修正是看到說怎麼樣子可以再來鼓勵例如說婚育的這件事情有什麼樣的措施那這個部分其實在行政院都有一個會議持續的在座討論當中還有就是說哪些方面還可以再減輕 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9316.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9332.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
父母親的負擔,都有在做檢討。」當然我覺得很重要一點除了說補助之外可能就是說整個托育的這個環境要改善那這個凱凱的事件我相信也讓很多人很有 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9333.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9362.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
有感而發。」就像年輕人他也許會覺得說那萬一我碰到這樣的保姆要怎麼辦那我其實我在這邊也要提出就是說其實保姆應該要有退場機制如果說第一時間像這個保姆他第一時間有的要把自己的小孩就是交給他他也會去看這個保姆的環境嘛那如果說這個保姆的環境這個整個居家環境不好整個這個環境空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9363.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9381.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
不夠或整個保姆的態度或種種你們應該有一個評鑑的機制那如果在第一線如果說去評鑑之後如果說是不好的話應該就是要讓他就是第一個也許可以改善的就改善不能改善應該就是要讓他退場 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9382.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9401.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
其實都有這個機制那怎麼去落實啊都要去平和然後有發生什麼樣的問題因為其實保姆要拿到這個可以職業的話他的環境也是要經過檢核通過才可以那為什麼這個保姆會有這個有的新手爸爸媽媽會說這個他的環境是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9404.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9434.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那如果他的環境是不好的為什麼他還可以擔任保姆他的環境不好我們在上次跟縣市的檢討會議當中台北市有說明說他們看到那個環境不好是因為本來孩子的收托的環境其實是在一樓一樓因為他那時候收了兩個孩子那一個孩子就是死亡一個孩子還在收托當中那因為發生這件事情這個保姆把他移到三樓那個三樓本來就不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9434.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9440.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
合可托育的環境：未來也是要有不可以預警式的去說你們要去訪視：那為什麼之前還會有這樣的狀況： |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9455.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9477.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
這是托育、居托中心這邊會是採無預警可是另外社工是兒盟的社工他們可能不是採無預警的所以這個部分我們會接下來針對這些說出養機構也會希望他們對於這些收托的一個場域也應該是採無預警的所以我希望就是說有這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9478.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9496.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
這個慘痛的這樣的一個案例我們希望說未來真的要從這方面該改善的真的要去落實而且我覺得說落實是最重要的你們如果說一年一年都有這個至少有4次的訪視那這個說出這個出養的這個機構他還有一年12次的這個訪視那為什麼還會有這樣的一個這個兒虐的案例來發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9502.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9531.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那時候我覺得說可能執行方面要真的要非常的落實那另外我剛剛有這個次長有特別提到就是說要怎麼樣讓年輕人感生、感養讓他有一個好的這個托育環境那剛剛次長有特別提到說我們現在有總公共化或者是這個非營利幼兒園那公托那其實我們也看到很多有加入總公共化的這個幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9532.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9557.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個加入總公共化的幼兒園其實有的有的原本可能他的體質不是那麼好那後來因為他有加入這個總公共化之後就讓他可以再繼續營運下去那我想請教就是說針對這樣的這些幼兒園加入我們的這個總公共化幼兒園之後原本他可能體質就已經不好了那你們後面你們要怎麼讓他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9559.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9574.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
就是接受你們的補助之後,那它可以整個品質可以提升。不能……委員是要問幼兒園還是托嬰中心?幼兒園。幼兒園,那就請教育部。 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9575.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9599.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
就這邊跟委員說明一下就是我們準公務員基本上他加入以後基本上縣市政府他是要有一個督導的角色那我們基本上每一年都會給準公務員他有一些相關的補助可以役助他一些設施設備讓他可以改善他整體的一個環境那當然也會去做一個定期的檢核那因為目前也是坊間也是很多一直在反映說準公務員有一些違規的狀況那所以這個部分我們其實都會請縣地方政府再去加強去做後續的一個查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9600.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9624.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我覺得說加入這個總公共化之後其實你們也要有一個評鑑的機制啊你們不能就是讓他這樣子我覺得有很多他原本就是在還沒有加入總公共化之前他可能快要撐不下去了那後來加入總公共化之後他可以繼續營運那他的環境他的品質有的可能沒有再沒有提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9625.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9652.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那有的可能巧立名目又跟家長額外收費那類似這樣的一個狀況我覺得教育部這邊應該也要有一些機制如果說他真的做得不好的話應該也要有退場啊有我們目前都有退場要件那現在目前其實也有一些比方說他可能違規收費那基本上我們也是有一個申訴專線那如果都是隨時收到我們就隨時會請現任去做查核這個部分我們其實一直在處理是好那最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9653.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9658.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
主席再給我一分鐘的時間,我請部長,好不好?好,來,許部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9662.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9688.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
黃委員好部長好部長其實在這個之前有很多人在提出說要延長這個托育時間那這個也這個延長托育時間到底是好或者是不好那這樣是不是反而是顯現出來就是說我們的這個勞動環境是不好的因為可能很多家長他就是需要加班那他的孩子沒辦法照顧所以就是要延長這個托育時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9690.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9706.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
所以我不知道說是不是請部長回答一下這個部分當然對於照顧的人來講他因為延長他等於是加班那對於整個他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9707.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9722.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
公使來講當然就會受影響所以我是不是可以要求就是說請部長如果是這樣這種情形他可能要必須多聘人我意思說如果家長有這個需求那他可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9723.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9751.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
增聘人力,看怎麼做一些調節。」所以我們現在一直在講說這個延長托育時間有的可能托育家長可能要加班有的加班到八、九點那再把小孩帶回去其實跟小孩接觸的時間真的是非常的少孩子回去之後可能洗完澡之後就要睡覺了所以跟家長的相處的時間非常的少所以我們是不是也要從勞動部這方面也要去鼓勵我們的企業主 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9752.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9761.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好,可能要讓我們的這個員工可能要有彈性工時,那另外就是說也要鼓勵他們這個準時下班。對,這個部分當然我們會來呼籲雇主,就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9768.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9780.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
在工作時間上盡量,尤其有育兒的勞工,讓他們有彈性的工作時間,也能增加跟小孩相處的機會。從這方面我們會來努力,跟雇主來做呼籲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9790.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9792.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
以兒童最佳利益來考量。」接下來我們請王正旭委員進行諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9825.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9830.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
謝謝主席有請勞動部許部長還有衛福部理事長好兩位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9834.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9858.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
王委員好委員好部長好市長好我想大家包括本席在內所有國人都非常關心職場性別平等計畫有沒有好好落實所以在這個過程裡面所有的國人在職業當中都不要因為性別而遭受到歧視或者是不平等的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9859.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9887.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那今天要跟兩位就交的就是有關於在醫院裡面其實我們也看到蠻多的男性護理師男性護理師占所有的在護理工作通任裡面只有差不多不到5%就是100個臨床的護理工作通任裡面差不多只有4.2%4.4%是屬於男性護理師那這部分不知道未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9889.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9908.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
兩個部會有沒有辦法持續加強男性護理師在招募、宣傳或使用圖像時能夠凸顯出男性護理師在這個職場的重要性還有如何有機會讓社會大眾也了解男性護理師在這個職場是他們有工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9909.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9933.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
在重要的這個負擔的部分那其實也可以鼓勵家長讓他們的小朋友有機會進到這個職場來這部分不知道目前兩個跨部會之間有哪一些努力的方向正在進行中我是覺得這件事情可能教育端在教育這一端就是說鼓勵這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9936.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9949.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個在護理的職場也讓我們男性能夠願意來念這樣的一個科系然後進入到這樣的職場那當然在這個招募的部分這個用語或圖像這個我們會來會來努力這個沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9952.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9969.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好,因為我在醫院常常看到很多招募的一些廣告或者是招募的一些圖像可是好像還沒看過男性護理師的這個圖像希望能夠持續來加強報告委員這個部分我們會回去請那個張護士 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9971.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9990.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這是在整個護理的人員相關的一個形象就是應該還是要男性的護理師這樣的相關的一些呃形象這個部分我們會來也會來持續的強化加強謝謝的確男性護理師在很多的領域包括在急診啊在健身科病房 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9991.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10007.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
等他們是擔任他們的角色是非常重要的那我們也知道目前一年將近有700位男性護理師會畢業以後投入到職場在去年去年就有關心到說那這些男性護理師如果要面臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10008.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10032.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就業之前要服役的話有沒有機會去把我們可以看往下看下一張就知道說之前也有希望能不能有機會去服替代役那個在去年薛部長也說會跟這個議政署那邊做相關的研議那不知道目前有沒有相關的進度可以讓大家可以更了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10033.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10058.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
目前應該還沒有一個還在研議中那我會再請我們的負責的同仁再盡快目前沒有看到有一個比較具應該還在研議中是可以理解福賓當然是沒因為這個還要跟那個我們的可能還包括內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10059.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10081.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
要一起做討論。我再回去了解目前的進度怎樣再跟委員報告。好,那就麻煩市長把這個訊息帶回去,請部長繼續幫忙。那我們往下看的部分就是如何完善職場的育兒環境。我們也知道其實要提升女性經濟的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10084.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10107.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
能夠貢獻在臺灣整個民間還有整個社會的力量會碰到一些問題針對女性的這個幫助社會做更好的這個建設部分那其中有一個很大的一個困境就是女性因為育兒照顧負擔而退出了職場那非常可惜所以在衛福部也推廣了這個性別平等推動的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10108.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10135.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那目前我們也看到其實甚至於這個男性女性在請假的部分往下看就可以看到至少女性會因為這樣的問題而去來影響到她的工作的百分比相對來講還是比男性多就是男性他其實更難在為了要照顧他的家裡的小朋友而要請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10136.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10152.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以這部分如何能夠加強宣導讓男性的這個家長也有機會根據他的需要而做適當的請假來同時協助整個家庭在照顧兒童方面造成的困難那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10153.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10173.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
兩個部會不曉得在加強的部分怎麼去培訓?我們其實現在已經放寬那父母可以同時請孕、流子、庭新共同來照顧小孩所以這個委員是2020的資料我們到去年2022我們那個孕、流子、庭新那個男性的部分大幅成長了61% |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10175.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10175.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
行政委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10207.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10220.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
更彈性的示範我們就是讓他可以短天數我們現在因為留庭是要30天至少要30天以上我現在5月1號準備要示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10221.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10232.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
大約不低於五天,若企業願意低於五天,我們也樂觀其成。」又是另外一個制度,盡量讓制度多元,讓勞動者去選擇怎麼樣能夠兼顧職場跟他的育兒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10238.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10267.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以事辦計畫就是希望以後的這個假設他需要請假不需要一次假請半年或更久只要他能夠依照這個雇主的需求規範之下他可以請幾天或者是幾週的時間讓他更彈性的去照顧他的家裡的育兒我們之前就是6個月或者至少30天這樣那個修了修法之後的實施的成效男性部分是大幅的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10267.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10292.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
是,那如果說示範非常成功的話,那有需要做法令上的修改,我們到時候再看狀況來做調查。現在就是那個零碎化,就是那個日、日、時,我們現在可能日會比較適當,但我們先試看看,然後看看我們先示範到年底,然後看看企業的一個一個他們的回饋是如何,我們再來做一些研議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10294.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10296.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
有關於其實現在都在鼓勵每一個單位工作單位能夠申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10306.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10323.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這些哺乳或是托兒措施的這些建制讓整個友善環境可以做得更好可是我們看到的就是這個數字相對是比較低那比較低的理由很有可能是很多都已經建制好了所以他每一年在追加的部分就比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10324.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10347.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
以我們看到的這個醫療院所補助加速為例好像每一年都只有20幾家相較於有400多家的醫療院所所以這個數字的呈現看起來是有它的一些問題是不是都已經做得很好了所以還在追加的部分就相對比較少將來這個數字的呈現可以再怎麼調控其實現在那個補給乳是跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10348.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10370.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這個托兒是不是在各企業我有時候去看幾乎都有所以已經建制的比較普遍所以他後面在成長就會趨緩是我意思就是說數據這個呈現如果讓他覺得很少數的話那怎麼去做一個滾動式檢討讓這個數據的呈現可以讓在閱讀的人可以更瞭解他的問題之所在 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10371.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10396.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那我們往下看一下有關於剛剛很多委員都有提到的無國籍兒童權益的保障的部分那其實資源不是沒有只是沒有妥善的整合所以我們再往下看的確在台灣目前有很多的無一而少可能是來自不是不應該說很多而是可能是來自這個失業的這個勞工造成的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10397.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10409.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
那請問目前我們到底有沒有比較可靠的數據這些失業勞工的兒童數字差不多會有多少這部分不知道要 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10414.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10432.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
其實報告委員我們現在統計的是近20年從民國93年到今年的1月大概整個就是所謂黑屋寶寶的人數大概18000整個20年大概有18000然後這裡面失聯移工的大概是3579人佔了19.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10439.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10460.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
三千多名的這些二十年二十年來可是我們擔心的是最近如果有更多的這些寶寶的話或者是相對他還沒有成年的時候他的一些醫療照顧我們其實說明一下就是我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10462.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10485.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
監察院、糾正行政院之後,我們其實有三個部會,跨部會勾基一個是移民署,因為移民署他是負責居留、居停留移民署、居停留,然後國健署,衛福部的國健署是健保,就是你有去產檢或什麼的,就會有資料另外就是我們的那個聘僱許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10486.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10500.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那這三方的資料現在勾集起來就有辦法去追蹤說各案的這個所謂黑屋寶寶的人數還有就是可以去掌握這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10502.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10519.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
現在的狀況,然後看怎麼去協助。」所以這個部會也是剛剛召委在關心。事實上我們就是有建立這樣一個機制,三方勾肌就可以把人找出來。是,好,那找出來總是要安置。對,對,找出來的安置就是我們會主動介入,至少三個部會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10521.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10549.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
內政部負責國籍、居留、私聯、移工及所吸子女的安置衛福部就是無醫兒少的醫療、安置、疫苗、社福的資源我們就是負責費用的補助安置遣返的費用就是勞動部由我們丟安基金來 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10550.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10576.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
做補貼所以原則上就是三個單位會共同來處理這樣的問題那勞動部會比較辛苦一點我們現在也在做那個因為就是移工懷孕的權益保障指引就是讓原來的這些移工他如果懷孕的話我們如果提升那個整個協助服務的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10578.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10596.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
把合法失聯的都納入。」另外我們也在我們的LINE一點通我們會建置相關的這些醫療資訊資源這個我們大概應該半年內就會把它建置完成讓有需要的這些懷孕的移工他們不管失聯或合法都可以找得到醫療資源來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10597.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10612.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
好那三四本席也希望在前面一張就是有關於把這個費用不管是醫療或育兒費用也都能夠寫到文件裡面那這部分再麻煩部長這邊持續去注意到文件的落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10614.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10643.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
OK,好,那最後的部分就是上一次有提到新南向中心其實很多醫療院所有40家以上針對於如何去服務相關新南向過來的這些不管是移工或者是團體們那這部分其實不只是在做這個慢性的疾病照護而已那這部分的資源運用其實可以提供給勞動部這邊做參考再麻煩部長多了解以後如果有需要的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10645.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10655.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
就麻煩大家一起努力。好,以上。好,謝謝。接下來我們請林淑芬委員進行質詢。主席,各位大家好。順順是請我們許部長。好,請許部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10674.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10691.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
部長,我們現在《性工法》第4章促進工作平等措施第15條明文規定,受僱的女性在受僱期間依認成、週數分免、流產等狀況應停止工作,給予產假的天數是不一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10692.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10718.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那我今天要討論的是留產假因為你們事實上在這裡面談的是說你分娩前後或者是說認成三個月以上大概都是產假是有薪然後都給予他假又給他薪但是呢三個月以下的這個留產就是未滿三個月或者是未滿兩個月你給的假是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10722.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10744.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
三個月以下裡面大概在性工法裡面給了一個禮拜或是至少五天的這個假然後不能夠扣全勤然後你們在去年五月一號發布了勞工請假規則第九條未滿三個月的流產如未請產假而依勞工請假規則請普通傷病假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10745.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10771.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
不可以扣全勤,然後看起來好像有利於母性保護可是在背後我們突顯看到的卻是沒有薪資沒有薪資流產假沒有薪資這個事情要不然你請傷病假那你傷病假好像看起來給了半薪可是傷病假總天數是30天如果你真的傷病了普通的傷病了你排擠到真正的傷病 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10771.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10792.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以沒有所謂的流產假的薪資然後要嘛你就請特休無薪假或是請特休這樣子所以這個對婦女來講我覺得這是對我們來講是相當的不公平就是說你成功生出一個小孩了才算有功勞我給你的假才會給你薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10793.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10810.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
如果你流產了你沒有成功生出一個小孩已經夠悲傷了假比較短就算了休息天數比較少就算了你沒有薪水給我們在法律上完全沒有任何的保障那現在我們看你今天公佈的這個請假規則第9條 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10814.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10825.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
還是一樣就是沒有薪資你們是依據這個九十一年的韓式建議勞工去請這個有薪的半薪的病假病假那你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10827.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10846.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
部長你覺得這樣子公平嗎我覺得委員這個部分我是覺得應該有就是要來檢討的空間那現在就是最主要是說到底這個薪資的給付是要來企業主來負擔還是要朝公共化那企業主負擔我們會比較擔心會造成女性的這個隱形的就業障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10847.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10858.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以我覺得這個部分恐怕不是很妥適但公共化的部分沒有我先問你第一個該不該給錢我是認為該給啦該給阿現在就誰出對誰出那你覺得這個誰出這個會需要很大一筆錢嗎我們之前有算過大概如果大概一億八千萬來照顧這個流產的女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10877.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10892.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
可以嗎?國家人說生會過幾十年,生不過四十年,現在說你生有出來,你真漂亮,生沒出來沒公勞,沒真漂亮所以你為了一億八這樣子對待流產的婦女我是覺得是不是能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10893.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10920.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
照顧一下流產的婦女。」這個我們會來跟那個因為有點好笑是你如果認成3個月以上才流產你認成92天流產你工作滿6個月你是拿他全薪喔認成90天或89天查4天查3天你未滿3個月無薪水阿拉伯的傷病假半薪這個排擠了這個傷病假啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10921.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10937.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
報告委員,這我看,我們會來跟主席,我覺得有大大的改進的可能性,那我們也跟,因為這個裁員,我剛講可能朝公共化會比較快沒關係啦,你找得到錢喔,我們不反對,我們只要有心的留產價 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10941.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10956.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這個部我是支持的接下來我們就要講因為我們一直不斷在談說育嬰留庭的把它改成彈性輕職假有心的彈性輕職假結果司長你們就公佈了這一個有心彈性輕職假的這個彈性育嬰留庭事辦計畫你們就公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10963.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10981.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
但是呢,我們看一下這個事辦原則,司長跟部長你看一下,你們公布的第一個找事辦的對象就含育有3歲以下的輪班排班第一線的服務社會大眾的受僱者,大家都知道你找這個輪班跟排班的 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10982.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10992.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
其實就是一個蘿蔔一個坑的你知道就是請假就是平常請假最沒有彈性的職業就是輪班排班的然後擺明了要上示範機關我們示範在建議啦我們就是建議韓國安這個部分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11000.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11013.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
不是啦,你們就講你們建議韓國人輪班排班但是呢,事實上你們去找的也是輪班排班的居多我現在保證要說,你去找最沒有彈性的職業要來試辦這一個有彈性的育嬰流停試辦計畫然後呢,這個最沒有彈性的職業裡面這樣試辦下去,我看啦,他可能會失敗 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11024.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11029.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
然後就是是到底這個示範計畫是故意要讓它成為試金石還是要故意讓它成為絆腳石啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11035.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11063.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個報告其實我們是說涵掛也希望說了解他到底因為我們大家都知道說這些輪班排班可能就是比較難但是我們要了解說到底他的難處在哪裡對啦你一個事辦機關你找最困難的職業去事辦不是我們不會指他啦全部都有包括啦我們現在只是說這個對象不會排除好啦我知道啦好啦沒關係啦我現在要跟你溝通幾個概念第一個我們現有的育嬰留庭他不是假 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11064.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11086.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
各位育嬰留庭不是假他是年資中斷的他從來不是假所以他是一個契約終止的概念而我們其實一直主張的彈性的育嬰假親職假不是育嬰而已我們都知道養小孩不是只有嬰兒階段而我上個禮拜也跟你講說育兒的這個勞動婦女的離職都在3歲到6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11091.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11115.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
其實不是你講的0到3歲而已他需要陪伴他需要很多的照顧其實是很長的一段時間的所以這個如果是假的話他就沒有契約終止中斷的概念那我們都知道說這個缺工、少子化是目前台灣企業最大的危機也是要永續發展最迫切需要解決的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11116.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11131.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
如果這個大家都想說暫時的離開職場育嬰留庭那你去看他有沒有回到原崗位有0到3歲有回到原崗位可是這個指標不能作為指標因為我們都知道離開這個職場是重返職位之後3歲、6歲他的離職率是最高的3歲、6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11139.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11153.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
就不是去看他有沒有重新回到這個職位上不是看這樣的概念而已所以我們是希望你說有心輕執駕我沒有說你替代育嬰留庭育嬰留庭的模式也是一種選擇維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11155.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11160.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
但你要增加的是一個更有彈性的有薪輕職假這樣的一個讓留停、停職、停薪跟這個請假的這個彈性的輕職假兩種選擇都在 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11171.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11189.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以在這種狀況裡面我們才會講說這個你這個事辦計畫除了找這個輪班排班的以外我們外界也不看好啦外界不看好的狀況是因為第一沒有任何獎勵措施提供雇主誘因去申辦啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11189.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11201.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
然後呢,雇主根本不知道你這是什麼樣態啊所謂的彈性親職價是什麼樣態五天是什麼樣態所以他你也沒有提供任何模式和樣態去供企業參考他怎麼去擴展企業願意提供他們這個誘因然後要加入呢沒有模式可以參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11210.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11224.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
第三個我們也是建議你勞動部要收集國內外施行彈性育嬰價企業的案例跟做法提供給雇主做參考那最重要的是你的示範計畫一定要去說明要完整的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11225.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11252.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
像是這個工作生活橫平得獎這個措施得獎事蹟要包含全新育兒假日6週全新家庭照顧假15天像暑假的週五重要節日提早下班或者是每天工作7小時或者是有部分企業ESG報告他們已經揭露的已經在提供的有心安心照顧假那我們其實是希望你 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11255.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11258.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個要解決缺工和少子化的危機你要想到一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11259.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11285.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
你要想的不是說讓勞工完整的保留完整的工時讓這個生育的勞工要留下來那你叫他要經常性的延長工時或是8小時要做好做滿或是還要延長工時不是你延長工時的時候小孩要誰顧托育產業要顧可是你有沒有想過托育產業的從業人員也都是女性居多喔九成八成喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11286.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11293.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
托育產業從業人員也有子女,他的子女要怎麼辦?」 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11294.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11323.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以說你讓工作現場的女性不要一直延長工時也有彈性的減少一點工時那就讓這個托育產業的女性勞工也可以早一點不要整每天都拖到半夜三更半夜才能回去那她的小孩又是一個問題兼顧兩者讓托育產業的女性勞工也能夠好好的生養 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11324.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11340.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
讓工作現場的女性也能彈性地回去做好她的親職的這個角色。」那我現在講說其實讓育兒家庭兼顧工作和育兒也才能符合兒童權利公約的意旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11341.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11367.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
所以兒童權利公約的意旨在講說這些國要確保父母雙方對兒童養育及發展的共同責任而專家都講出說對兒少缺少休息陪伴這個就是最嚴重的問題爸爸媽媽對兒少沒有好的時間去親子互動沒有陪伴這個就是也是不符合兒童權利公約裡面的這個規範那我最後再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11371.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11385.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這個育嬰彈性化是國際趨勢在這種國際趨勢裡面他要包含各國的做法都包含可以選擇全職或先職可以包含可以請一段連續區間或幾個短時間包含可以選擇較長的時間或但幾戶較低的休假或者是給他時間較短但幾戶較高的休假 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11395.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11414.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
實際性都樣態的而這種這個休假方式的不同我們看起來研究上都看到說女性往往都會請連續的長假的男性都會請比較彈性的然後比較短時間的顯示這種彈性的休假安排也可以讓男性參與育兒的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11417.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11431.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
及職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性別平三法上路如何落實職場性 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11433.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11447.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
這樣子才能夠留住女性的勞動參與率不要下降到4成多了然後大家動不動就說開放外籍移工、開放外籍移工留住女性的勞動參與率很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11450.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11470.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這個事辦計畫現在事辦的加速你不要看起來全部都輪班排班一種最困難的你是說包含而已不是以他們為主那我們就希望說你應該要去好好的宣導然後告訴我們要參與事辦的企業我們到時候一定會檢視嘛參與事辦的企業到底是什麼屬性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11474.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11481.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
希望這個示範計畫是成功的試金石,而不是故意讓它失敗的絆腳石最後我今天剛剛開始講的有薪流產價要承諾給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11492.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11496.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
臨時提案第一案,鑑於失聯移工並無健保或醫療保險,看病將造成醫院醫療呆帳, |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11510.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11539.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
而移工所生子女也難以就醫施打疫苗許多失聯移工因擔心被遣返回國也不願意尋求政府協助﹐對兒童人權影響甚巨原要求勞動部會同衛福部就失聯移工及其在台所生子女難以獲取醫療資源問題嚴理具體因應作為於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王育敏、陳金輝、盧憲一 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11540.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11565.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
第二、有鑒於監察院曾對勞動部提出糾正指出我國雖明文禁止雇主以女性移工懷孕為由單方面終止聘雇契約違經監察院調查後仍發現落實不足嚴重影響懷孕移工權益甚至成為失聯移工原要求勞動部應就落實法令禁止雇主非法解雇懷孕移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11565.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11584.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
以及針對移工在臺工作期間撫養子女之需求研議具體改善方案。於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王育敏、陳金輝、盧憲一。第三案有鑒於我國社福移工人數高達237,061人其中21萬餘人屬於不適用勞動基準法保障之家庭看護及家庭幫傭此類移工若在臺灣懷孕生子 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11594.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11600.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
也無法申請勞保、生育給付、後續養育子女經濟負擔極重,更易造成移工失聯、逃逸之狀況。原要求勞動部針對不適用勞基法之設服移工、在台懷孕生子、研擬政府資源協助方案於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王育敏、陳清輝、盧憲一 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11618.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11623.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
第四案,據衛福部統計,2022年全台總計27134位托育人員其中50歲以上佔61.9%,預估5至10年內將陸續退出職場此外,彭婉如基金會議指出,如需滿足家長送托需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11637.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11655.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
一百一十三年底須再增加四千名托育人員,顯見無論短、中、長期,托育人力皆需財恐急。原此,建請勞動部於兩個月內研議修正《外國人從事就業服務法》第46條第一項第一款至第六款工作資格及審查標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11656.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11668.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
將托育工作納入專門性或技術性之工作職列,延攬畢業僑外生留台並投入托育工作以解決托育人員短缺之窘境。」提案人委員圖全吉,連署人委員盧憲一、蘇清泉。第五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11673.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11678.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
兒虐事件發生後,面對檢討與改革,衛福部應正式社工工會提出五大訴求,包括全面檢討社會問題成因,別把社安網當成社工網,邀集職務代表重開兒虐檢討會,收回提高社工訪視頻率要求,保障社工職業安全,別讓社工遭肉搜怒罵,落實社工薪資制度,重視社工工作負擔及量能,並且妥適回應訴求, |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11703.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11708.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
原此要求衛福部應全面檢討社工職業安全保障等相關措施並謹述回應相關訴求提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、劉建國第6案而福聯盟身為兒少保護團體的領頭羊應較坊間更注重社工與保母的職業保障以維持其穩定性。原要求教育部與衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11728.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11730.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
管理機關之責、要求兒蒙救財務、捐款流向、社工與保姆職業保障、服務個案等提出改善報告．並向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告。提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、劉建國第7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11747.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11772.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
查兒福聯盟近5年捐款收入超過31.2億元﹐理應有足夠資源聘請專業社工人力投入服務個案以近期發生兒童遭保母虐死事件為例時不應發生社工已因長期人力不足、業務繁重、壓縮訪視時間、敏感度不足又依照內部機制出問題時第一線社工沒發現第二線督導從訪視記錄報告也漏接 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11776.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11789.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
而對整件事毫無所惜。顯見額蒙內部訪視督導機制有檢討改善空間,原要求衛福部緊速了解並要求額蒙改善。」提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、劉建國 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11791.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11811.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
第八案,基於近期發生之劉同昭保姆虐死事件,為極力防止該事件再次發生,衛生福利部檢討我國居家式托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法各縣市執行問題,請衛福部要求各縣市提供居家托育人員違反前開辦法, |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11812.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11832.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
及兒少福利與權益保障法相關規定的處理原則之報告公立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會委員審視並於一個月內公告建立各縣市統一的處理原則以明確行政程序提案人委員林月琴、連署人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國第9案 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11834.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11855.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
基於近期發生托育人員不適任問題,請衛生福利部與教育部檢討不適任托育教保人員資料庫勾基問題,並請衛福部及教育部提供各縣市托嬰中心及托育人員違反兒少相關法規公告專區及全國教保服務機構不適任人員資料庫勾基時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11856.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11875.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
評慮之報告公立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會委員審視並於一個月內公告建立各縣市統一勾基時間評慮的處理原則以明確行政程序提案人委員林月琴、連署人委員王振旭、黃秀芳、劉建國第十案 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11875.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11887.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
為使勞動部彈性育嬰留職停薪事辦計劃推行順利,亦能藉由事辦計劃找出企業之困境與家庭之需求。勞動部應嚴義簡化育嬰留停津貼申請流程,提出具體誘因與鼓勵措施,彈性放寬事辦計劃限制,延長計劃執行時間, |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11898.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11916.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
提出事前宣導、事後檢討具體規劃,並邀請關注托育、照顧議題之民團討論諮詢。」提案人委員黃秀芳、王振旭、劉建國、范雲宣讀完畢。好,我們現在開始處理臨時提案。請問第一案行政單位有沒有意見? |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11919.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11947.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
八號委員會第一案我們勞動部其實目前也正會跟衛福部就委員所關心的四點移工跟子女的醫療這個部分目前正在進行那因為這個案子因為涉及到相關部會跟我們跟移工團體跟社福團體可能要再做一些研商能不能建議在倒數第二行研擬就請建議改研議具體因應作為那於一個月是不是可以給我們兩個月時間內我們盡快把這樣的一個做法具體把它呈現出來提供衛福兩個月要具體對 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11948.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11970.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好,那就修正通過,來第二案那跟委員報告,那第二案也是一樣,是不是同意在我們倒數第二案一個月改兩個月,讓我們來研議好,都要提出具體方案,好修正通過,來第三案那第三案也是一樣,倒數第三案就研擬改研議,那一個月改兩個月這個需要那麼久嗎?這個其實很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11972.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11973.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
行政部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11984.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12011.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那第四案跟委員溝通後是不是在建議倒數第五行那這裡面有建議勞動部於兩個月內那我們是建議因為這涉及到我們跟衛福部的主管的一些意見那能夠加上會商衛福部那原意修正後面沒有修正就加五個字會商衛福部好那個托衛員有沒有意見他修正之後可以好那就修正後通過來第五案 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12016.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12024.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
沒有意見通過來第6案沒有意見通過來第7案沒有意見通過來第8案 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12028.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12048.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
基本上我們對於整個居家保姆的一些違規的做法已經有訂了一個處理原則那我們剛有跟委員這邊溝通是不是建請就是可以修正一些文字在第三行請衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12049.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12076.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那刪除這個要求各縣市因為我們中央已經訂了那後面提供這個居家托育人員違反這個居家市托育服務提供者登記及管理辦法及兒少福利與權益保障法相關規定的處理原則那到這裡後面的文字就刪除溝通好了嗎?對,溝通好了那就修正後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12078.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12078.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那,就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12079.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12107.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
第九案也剛剛有跟委員溝通基本上因為違反那個法規的公告專區不是在做勾基的勾基的系統的名稱是托育服務整合資訊系統所以在第三行的這個各縣市托育中心及托育人員違反而授相關法規公告專區應該要修正成托育服務整合資訊系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12109.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12134.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
那後面倒數第三行就是我們會提供委員勾基相關的一些勾基的時間跟頻率那到這個頻率為止後面的文字都刪除那這個部分也有跟林委員溝通了好那就修正後通過來第十案第十案剛剛已經跟委員這邊溝通過文字修正資料已經送給議事組 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12137.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12159.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
就是那個在倒數第三行的部分那延長計畫執行時間的這幾個字刪除委員已經同意簽字好那就修正後通過來接下來我們臨時提案已經處理完畢那接下來我們就請李昆城委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12169.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12172.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好 謝謝主席 那我們請衛福部理事長委員好 社長好 這個在凱凱這個不幸事件發生之後那大家會關注在說這個孩子們在初養階段這個時候這個保母的照顧這個情況嘛因為凱凱發生的事情就是在初養這個階段然後呢 雖然是由這個兒福聯盟找到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12199.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12214.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
應該是臺北市社會局介紹的合格保姆但是最後不幸的事情就發生了所以說在這一個初養階段的保姆的照顧現在現階段就非常重要了在這件事情之後你們有沒有做什麼樣的一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12216.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12225.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我們這次有跟兩個縣市政府專家學者額蒙有一起討論我們會覺得說在出養前的安置階段不應該全部交給收出養媒合機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12231.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12255.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
應該由政府擔起責任。」所以是現在是要建議就是要請縣市政府要依委託安置的程序來做這樣一個安置那委託安置就是縣市政府要有主責社工然後要結合他市內縣市內的一個安置資源然後確保這個孩子有得到好的照顧那市長我先請教你在出養的這個階段的這個保姆的費用是誰出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12256.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12278.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
目前都是媒合機構在出那為什麼是媒合機構出來?比如說這次是由兒福聯盟來出然後他找了一個月兩萬六那我不知道說一個月兩萬六是不是符合現在的行情那這個為什麼是由這個兒福聯盟或是這個媒合機構來出不是由這個地方政府來出或是由這個中央政府來出 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12278.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12298.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
因為他們大部分是屬於來自錯瑞家庭嘛那脆弱家庭的這個階段我搞不清楚啦當初的這個用意為什麼是由這個媒合機構那我是擔心啦就是說如果以前都是這樣子的話那我就找一個比較便宜的這個不一定是能夠照顧好的那其實這些孩子們不是應該得到更多的照顧嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12299.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12318.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
委員剛剛我講的就是說這個案子是由媒合機構出可是我們看到有各縣市其實有一些不一樣的做法那為什麼會有不一樣的做法呢對所以這個部分就是當時所以有的是由這個媒合機構來出那有的是由地方政府來出那這就蠻奇怪的啊是因為說兒福聯盟他比較有錢所以兒福聯盟就自己出嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12321.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12338.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
應該是說當時因為他是脆弱家庭開案其實家長也反映說他無力照顧如果當時地方政府新北市如果可以用委託安置的話那這一筆錢就是縣市政府要出可是因為他沒有走入這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12339.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12342.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部就 «落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實職場育兒環境及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12357.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12383.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
不是最理想的保姆那也有可能啊那會有損經費啊如果今天這個經費是由中央政府或是由地方政府來出的話或許就不一樣了啊所以我們這次就是就是要扭轉這樣的有一些機制所以我們這次需要委託安置就是地方政府要出錢委託安置就是地方政府要出錢所以就是以後只要是這個出養階段的這個孩子都是由這個地方政府來負責安置的經費對那地方政府有這個錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12385.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12403.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以我們有提到就是說如果地方經費不足我們中央會來協助因為我覺得很意外就是說這個是屬於脆弱教練孩子為什麼是有這一個兒福聯盟來出這筆錢那會不會是因為這樣子衍生後續的問題那兒福聯盟是有錢啊他可以這樣出那其他的媒合機構他可以這樣出嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12404.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12419.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這不是很奇怪嗎所以我們就這一次有針對這個部分就提出加一個檢討的一個做法了那請問一下就孩子從這一個出養到最後這個收養這個階段大概要付多少費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12420.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12437.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
就要看他等待收養的這段時間有多長那因為牽涉到是說是付保母費還是有一些媒合機構他有自己的機構那所以各個媒合機構跟這個收養家庭的這個家長收的費用也不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12438.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12456.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
是是那那有沒有你們有沒有綠定一個範圍有大概是多少到多少好像是完成是10萬10到15萬15萬以內之間那你們有去看說到底這些媒合機構最後收的費用是多少嗎你們有這個你們有這個數字嗎他會報給你們嗎是是要報那除了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12460.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12481.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
法定的一些...我有看相關程序大概收多少費用大概如果是10到15萬會不會有額外其他的費用需要這個收養的家庭的家長要出這個是不應該收的那會不會有因為我知道說不是只有15萬就結束了通常收養一個孩子超過了費用甚至到百萬都有欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12483.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12495.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
這個差不多百萬有可能他們是在為了要收養孩子所以他們去不同的媒合機構然後不同的媒合機構可能就是有收他沒有沒有就同一個機構那不應該出現這樣的一個機構我覺得這裡面要去查就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12506.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12523.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
這部分我們會來再針對目前的媒合機構我們再來做查查那如果委員有知道哪一個單位可以跟我們好謝謝謝謝社長謝謝主席接下來我們請洪孟楷委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12533.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12563.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
主席謝謝,麻煩請許明春部長。好,來請許部長。部長,去年我們大幅修正性平三法,其中性別平等工作法,最主要就是希望能夠降低MeToo事件的再次發生。但是,很多的共同案件的共同點是什麼?是雇主沒有處理,或是處理不當,還是行為人有可能就是雇主,而造成職場上的性消擾事件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12563.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12578.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那我們現在想要來跟您再就近一步的討論就是說怎麼樣能夠有效的防範職場性騷擾這一個部分我先請教一下就是說我們現在職場性騷擾我們有訂立出相關的一個規範跟申訴的規範範本 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12581.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12596.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
事業單位工作場所性消擾防治措施申訴及懲戒規範範本有分三個版本一個是30人到100人的企業一個是100人以上不滿500人的企業以及500人以上的企業對不對分三個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12597.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12618.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那三個版本裡面共同條文有第四條所謂的對於相關人不適當的凝視也視為性騷擾的樣態之一部長能不能更清楚明白說明一樣不適當的凝視泛指什麼樣的一個部分比如說盯著某個重要部位看這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12619.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12647.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
看多久?或是什麼?有沒有一個比較明確?還是員工自己覺得不舒服就認定?我是覺得看個案綜合判斷基本上應該是以被害者他的感受有些人可能你這樣瞄我一眼我就覺得不舒服了我覺得應該是尊重因為我們這個主要是要保護被害人所以我是覺得可能要比較在被害者的角度來看這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12648.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12671.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
就是要綜合啦,我覺得,但是要看個案的情況是,但這樣子會不會因為規範的沒有明確而造成說你難以認定還有我們常常講到是說不當您是提醒會觸犯職場性騷擾但是可能很難舉證所以是不是建議還是要有實際的一個案例能夠來在這個指引上面能夠給大家更有依循可循 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12673.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12692.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們會有更多的宣導資料來提供給我們的雇主或我們的員工。宣導資料那部長本席能不能在這邊做個建議就是其實我覺得你剛剛的回答很好就是說如果說不管是男性或女性有身體的特定部位被持續被盯著看而造成讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12693.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12714.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個被盯看的人的心理造成一個不舒服的狀態其實某種程度上就可以構成職場性騷擾那是不是把這樣的一個樣態寫得比較明確裡面在這個我們所謂的規範範本裡面能夠更清楚等於是有個個案的例子讓大家知道否則一句不適當的凝視可能會讓大家的確啦我們可能用比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12716.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12740.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
顯顯的例子然後來說明這個文字的意義所以這個改進什麼時候可以來做修正給我們各機關公司我們現在有第一個指導手冊本期就是看到了指導手冊認為是說就是不清楚所以說我今天才會提出來我們再檢視一下再強化因為這個我們都會隨時可以滾動的本期就認為是說應該要把這個樣態寫的明確讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12744.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12758.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
想要性騷擾的人無所適從沒有辦法去做那我們也提醒、善意提醒說任何的一個員工如果你真的職場上遭受這樣的待遇的話符合這樣樣態你是可以主張你的權益的是好那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12760.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12783.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
防止累犯跟持續的這種職場安全的部分其實也是一個很重要為什麼這樣講因為我們也看到一個新聞是講說有某公司的主管信銷女同事啊公務機關啊就沒被拔官他也是主管沒被拔官只有記小過然後他就調離原單位但是他調離到新的單位裡面他可能一而再再還是持續發生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12785.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12791.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
那這樣的一個情況會不會造成說他的內部懲處其實就是高高舉起輕輕放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12792.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12818.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
所以你的這個審計範本裡面有把解雇也當成是一個對於雇主對於性騷擾的行為人的糾正跟補救措施就換言之啊就你如果說你在你的公司裡面性騷擾的樣態太過了已經造成大家都不舒服而且甚至已經有違法的疑慮了雇主可以去解雇你而不受到所謂的勞基法的一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12820.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12842.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那裡面你們提到了門檻設定是是情節輕重對於行為人適當的懲處或處理情節重大者事業單位可依性平工作平等法的規定不經預告終止勞動契約好那請教情節重大這四個字怎麼定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12845.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12860.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
其實我也就是也是要看個案判斷因為我們很多法律條件都是都有這樣的規定對但是情節重大就變成是可高可低到底是次數我一年內性騷擾別人的次數言語的性騷擾口頭上性騷擾還是眼神的性騷擾還是肢體的性騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12866.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12887.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
情節重大,碰觸到不該碰觸的部分還是口頭吃豆腐還是已經造成大家不舒服但調離不同單位他還是依然僱我那這個情節重大怎麼定義會變成是說你給僱主一個工具但是實際上你沒有讓他可以有效的用這個工具而僱主可能會擔心就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12888.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12908.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
勞基法以及如果說我解雇了反而會吃上官司其實我們可以有例子舉例來說明會比較好讓他們能夠來比照援引說原來這個情節重大的狀況是類似這樣所以本席也是提出來今天也是就這兩點就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12910.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12937.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
麻煩我們勞動部在針對我們提出來的這個申訴及懲戒範本裡面應該要把相關的個案認定到什麼樣的一個程度就是所謂的情節重大讓所有的僱主能夠有這樣的武器可以使用如果說這個行為人真的就是屢勸不聽我記得小過大過他還是不改他還是持續的在單位性騷擾那我當然就可以用解僱這樣的工具來把他給請他離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12939.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12943.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
那這什麼時候可以出來?三個月內行不行? |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12945.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12972.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
三個月內把範本裡面相關的個案、釐清、說明清楚再公告上網我請業務單位再檢視一下啦所以說如果不明確的可能不只我言您講的剛剛那兩個我剛剛只是因為時間有限啦四分鐘我請他們全部再檢視一下如果可以舉例的我們盡量舉例是有個案的或是過去有發生過的案例判決過或怎樣或是比較常出現的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12973.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12992.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這些都把它羅列出來,讓僱主、讓職員、讓不想要受到職場性騷擾的人有規則可循,這樣可以嗎?可以,謝謝。好,謝謝部長。好,謝謝侯孟楷委員的質詢。接下來我們請李燕秀委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13001.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13003.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
領域及社會福利部、教育部及社會福利部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13008.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13037.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
李委員好部長好部長無論是最近大家常常在討論ESG的議題還有包括永續發展國發會是上週針對於這兩個主要的目標都有定定相關的目標18項核心的目標跟內容特別是在譬如說在性別友善的職場上我覺得從這18大項目標裡面我關注到性別友善職場是我今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13038.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13059.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
特別挑出來想跟您討論的因為我們是女性的部長我覺得在這一塊我覺得我們應該更著墨才不會白白來走這一招好比陳時中他現在把心口撕分開來有一個口腔絲我非常希望在您任內在兩性的平權上在友善的職場環境上我們可以更進一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13061.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13084.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那我們都知道從109年起我們現在已經達到生不如死也就是我們台灣的新生兒只剩下13萬左右那民間顧問公司也針對於企業的影響力評估無論從多元、公平跟共融上他們都做了一些調查目前只有三成的企業對於孕婦跟育兒的部分達到法律的規定門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13086.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13095.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
僅有兩成企業願意提供優於法規的育嬰停留,近三成企業願意提供優於法規的產檢價及賠產價。」部長,你覺得對於這三項數據,你個人覺得滿不滿意? |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13108.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13127.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
對嘛,你也不滿意,我也不滿意。我知道我們前兩年我們有修法,包括我們針對於性平法裡面,我們性工法裡面,我們把產價現在有做調整,原來5天調整為7天。我們也有鼓勵他們說以半日或者小時為單位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13128.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13148.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
但是您當媽媽嘛 對不對你有媽媽的角色嘛 對不對我也有媽媽的角色所以我們都生產過你覺得7天到底夠不夠我們一年孕婦最起碼就是說孕期至少要做到14次的產檢你覺得7天的產假就您個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13149.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13149.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
你當過母親的角色,你有懷孕過以現在你覺得七天到底夠不夠?你滿不滿意? |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13160.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13184.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個是不滿意還可以接受,因為當時在考量的時候就是14次的產檢,因為他可以請半天不中,你可能有時候有先生可以載你,家人可以載你,有司機可以載你但是對於很多女性來說,她懷孕的過程很辛苦,今天好像有一點點出血,有什麼狀況趕快去做個產檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13187.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13206.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
這種狀況其實常常發生而且現在很多女性都晚婚生懷孕的年齡層也比較高所以你說怎麼勉強可以接受其實我是完全不能接受就一個女性的部長勞動部的部長來說我對於你這樣的說法我相對我是不滿意的我也認為不足夠啦你同不同意我這樣的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13207.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13222.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
到目前你點頭吧,這代表你也支持我的說法嘛好,部長那我接下來因為時間不多我還是要跟你討論就是我們從5天延長到7天但是我也關注到我們有編列3億6529萬的預算就是可以讓5天到7天這兩天我們可以讓資方去申請補助嘛對不對但是我們的補助最後執行率只有12.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13235.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13259.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
這是因為企業主都不知道說有兩天可以申請是不是?不是,報告委員我們因為第一年我們第二年增加多少了?有達標多少?第一年我們主要是高估,那時候高估現在比例,比例,我們現在有兩萬三千 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13260.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13261.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
補助5,000萬元 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13276.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13297.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
懷孕生育的環境在這一塊我們就要想辦法讓資方說我們政府有編列這樣的預算趕快用多元觸角的方式讓他們來申請好不好那另外一個就是產價公共化的議題OECD國家有過半都對於產價大概都至少14週以上到底對於現在8週你個人覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13299.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13324.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
到底夠不夠?是不是一個好的現在職業婦女、想懷孕的婦女是一個合理的產假的假期?八週到底是不是?因為產假的部分其實在我們國內的定義是比較廣義啦就是會把...你不要講,我只問你一個,你不要扯因為我時間已經到了,你到底滿不滿意?因為這個產假八週...部長,你是女性的部長,我再一次提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13325.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13352.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我覺得這部分可以再來檢討啦可以再來檢討你有沒有檢討過我一直在講說12週、14週我的版本是提14週你如果我一直在強調說薪資公共化產價薪資公共化這件事情我不知道你有沒有跟行政院討論過你到底有沒有提出來過9週也好10週你到底有沒有跟資方討論過到底有沒有跟行政院討論如果朝薪資公共化我們到底要負擔多少的預算到底我們增加這些一週或兩週的產價我們有沒有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13355.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13375.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
多增加一些新生兒出生。」你有沒有提過還是你連提都沒提過我們立法院這麼多委員關注這個議題我相信至少過半的委員關注產假從8週可以延長這件事情報告我就再提出來14週產假公共化你到底有沒有提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13376.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13395.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
有沒有討論過?有沒有跟行政院討論過?議題我們都有跨部會,之前有討論過行政院不買單?院長不願意買單?不買單就是還在討論當中那就是沒有往前進嘛所以我要再提前,你是女性的部長,創造更好的兩性環境,女性的職場環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13397.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13416.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我覺得是我們大家共同的責任然後另外一個就是我希望在永續報告書裡面你要跟監管會去溝通無論是兩性的薪資的差距我覺得台灣我們在台灣女性還是落後男性我們有更進一步的空間包括懷孕育嬰的期間離職率到底有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13417.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13443.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
然後離職之後再回到職場他薪資變化到底是怎麼樣我希望在這一個部分上我們都應該公開揭露我們要創造更好的職場環境提醒這些上市上櫃公司這些都是我們勞動部長期在關注的議題跟方向可以嗎可以 我們繼續來溝通努力謝謝提醒你 你是女性的部長我們要對女性多做一點好 謝謝好 謝謝李燕秀委員的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13446.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13449.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
接下來我們請吳佩奕委員進行質詢。謝主席,我請勞動部部長。好,請許部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13463.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13486.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
部長好,今天時間有限,我想就直接跟您請教,我們去年新平三法完成修法上路之後那我們的性工法第12條之中呢,勞動部我們來增列了針對職場性騷擾我們要來增列調查的人才庫那過去因為我在台北市議會,我曾經調查過就我們台北市政府而言各個局處單位每年都有職員來提出性騷擾案件的申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13487.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13504.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
所以確實我們對於申訴的調查我們需要引進外部的專業人力來協助那我們勞動部在去年提出了這個性三法調查人才庫的要點嘛去年要點提出來了那我比較好奇的是針對我們這些專業人員我們要進行培訓對不對他雖然有所專業但來了我們還是需要培訓我們培訓的時數究竟是多少時數因為你們沒有寫在要點裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13514.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13528.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
實術,你們已經辦了10場以上培訓900多人,我們要培訓實術多少?12到24小時,是12還是24小時?不同,就是針對不同的人才他可能實術會不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13529.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13544.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
有可能會不同,對不對?這個不只是我們勞動部有這樣的人才庫的培訓其他部會也有,包括衛福部、包括教育部有沒有去了解過我們其他部會針對這樣子性騷調查的人才培訓我們的時數是多少?有沒有去了解過? |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13551.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13564.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
衛福部信騷調查人才培訓十二小時教育部時數有分四階段課程加起來兩週以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13566.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13586.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
這個時數就增加了很多了那我認為啦針對我們這個人才培訓的時數因為時數的基本規範你其實除了課程的內容深度以外其實它讓我們有一定的標準例如說你12跟24這是兩倍的差距那我認為我們是不是去了解一下其他部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13587.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13608.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
其他部會都已經是進行的時間比你們還久了你們是去年新上路的所以我們可以去了解一下在15、第一線究竟多少時數才是充足的讓我們這些人才未來協助這很重要因為一些性騷事件的調查申訴案的調查我們的培訓一定要充足確保這些人才具有充分 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13609.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13635.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
專業的培訓,才能夠來協助我們做完備的性騷案件的申訴、調查。」好不好?所以我們了解一下,若有必要,就我了解所知,其實很多民間是反映這個時數是不夠的。若有必要,我們就趕快來調整,並且應該要明定地顯入要點。那第二個是,針對這些協助我們來做性騷、申訴案件調查的人員,倘若他不適任,我們有沒有退場機制?有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13638.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13643.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13648.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13676.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們目前勞動部的要點他如果有涉及這個性侵、性騷案件、性霸凌我們就會解除他這個調查員的資格,對不對?一樣這個衛福部跟教育部過去的要點裡面也都已經實行上路了例如說在衛福部的這個退場機制裡面這些人員他倘若涉及了兒少性剝削他倘若涉及了妨害性隱私、不實行影像罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13677.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13700.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
等涉及耕燒法,都是屬於不適任的。」他如果有涉及這些行為,他當然不適合來做我們性燒申訴案件的調查。那勞動部你們在要點裡面沒有列入耳燒性剝削、防範性隱私等等,那如果說他有涉及耳燒性剝削,這樣的人適合來協助我們做性燒案件的申訴調查嗎?部長。不適合。 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13702.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13706.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
不適合嗎?所以我認為我們這個要點也是該修的趕快去把它變得更完備好不好?那最後一點時間是秘書長我不需要跟你提醒因為我注意到你們現在提出了這個彈性、育嬰留庭5到7天要示範要上路嘛對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13720.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13737.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
第一個,我認為5到7天,就實務來說,不夠。第二個,在你們事辦計畫裡面,以目前的計畫,是要僱主有來提出才進行事辦,對不對?倘若僱主沒有來提出,我們的這個勞工就沒有彈性孕育下的事辦的可能性了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13737.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13762.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那如果僱主不提出,就沒有辦法彈性運營價,那我們不需要勞動部了所以我希望我們勞動部還是要趕快去研議我們有八成的受僱者,五成的企業都支持彈性運營價應該要以日或小時來計算我希望我們勞動部趕快來研議這個方案讓我們的這個事辦計畫上路的時候是真的可以讓我們的這些受僱者可以受惠好不好好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13765.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13770.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
好,謝謝接下來我們請洪森和委員進行質詢請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13788.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13814.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
部長去年在11月的時候我質詢陳院長有向陳院長和部長也有在我們有討論這個關於照顧不離職的議題那後來部長其實也把這個議題交給部長來研議部長知不知道為什麼一定要在有行政院的院長在的時候要跟他提出這個問題知不知道為什麼希望院這邊能夠支持然後來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13815.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13829.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
因為我也同意照顧不離職這個問題其實不是單單勞動部自己的政策照顧不離職這個問題當然也涉及到一些企業相關制度上面工時安排的等等的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13830.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13854.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這可能會有跨部會的部分但部長這個尤其是當初我們提出這個質詢的時候是因為很清楚台灣有33萬名的女性其實為了照顧家人而必須退職甚至是離開職場所以當初其實不管是成員長或部長其實都承認我們的制度跟職場其實對需要照顧家人的勞工很不友善所以讓要照顧他為了要照顧家人他不得不 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13856.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13873.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
離職甚至離職以後就回不來了這就是這33萬女性勞動力消失的很重要的原因甚至我們進行了國際的比較但部長你那時候答應我說一個月內會盤點問題去瞭解目前制度漏接了誰然後並且針對這些盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13876.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13901.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
來提出一個方案給行政院,希望行政院可以支持。可是部長,四個月過去了,請問勞動部有去盤點問題嗎?部長,勞動部有去盤點問題嗎?有。有去了解制度到底漏接了誰嗎?有把政策建議給行政院嗎?部長有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13903.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13911.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
就是有我看這個有給委員部長我看到了我看到那份文件了但如果你仔細看那份文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13912.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13937.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
你就很清楚的看到在這份文件上面沒有盤點問題只是在回覆說因為衛福部為了因應超高齡社會所以已經提供了長照服務了家庭照顧者所以已經可以放心投入勞動職場了勞工自己也可以選擇彈性工時和日拖日照服務了不需因照顧離職影響家庭收入這是這一份報告上面的內容部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13938.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13944.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我是請你們去盤點問題,結果你回了一格跟我說現在沒有問題,部長你同意嗎?當初我是請你們盤點問題給行政院,如果行政院不了解問題的話,你們告訴行政院問題在哪裡?在提供它你們的政策建議是什麼?希望能夠獲得行政院或者是我們經建部門的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13963.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13980.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
你告訴我都沒有問題,沒有問題那就不用改啊!如果這麼好就不用改啊!部長這是我要跟你講的第一件事情再來我要跟你說最近勞動部推出的事辦彈性預計將預計五月實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13983.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13997.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
許部長你應該知道我其實是可以接受先求有再求好的人可是我必須說現在的這個計劃真的沒有辦法解決勞工就業不離職的問題甚至有可能衍生更多的問題部長知不知道為什麼我這樣說我跟部長說第一個為什麼需要僱主提交事辦計劃書為什麼要僱主提交事辦計劃書為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14015.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14030.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我們是希望說他如果來呼應這個計畫看他能做到什麼程度啦因為這個還是要雇主部長現在在這個計畫裡面我們看到的狀況是第一個對於企業對於雇主毫無誘因你們完全沒有放任何的誘因在這個計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14033.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14052.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
第一個沒有誘因第二個雇主還要自己再提一個計劃書今天假設他忙於他的生意他忙於他的企業他還要自己再提一個計劃書而且毫無誘因他完全沒有任何好處在這裡面他為什麼要去提這件事情所以你反而製造了他想去做這件事情的門檻跟成本而且你沒有給任何誘因所以最有可能的結果是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14059.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14074.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
許部長我覺得最後可能結果就是很少的企業很少的雇主願意來填寫這個計劃書因為他沒有誘因最後你們就回報給委員回報給立法院說你看都沒有企業有彈性誘因價的需求我覺得這最後很可能的狀況是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14079.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14101.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
所以這是為什麼我要跟你說這個彈性育嫁制度坦白說就我看起來我認為很有問題我們是當初最倡議照顧不離職彈性育嫁制度的委員之一但目前的這個方案第一個他很可能運作不起來為什麼沒有設計鼓勵誘因沒有我們沒有在裡面看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14103.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14132.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
所以如果到時候運作不起來的時候到底是因為真正的雇主跟勞工沒有這個需求還是因為我們制度設計不良?部長,可以回答一下嗎?高委員,因為我想我們這個事辦計畫主要是要了解看企業到時候在運作上有沒有什麼困難那當然你剛剛有講的說可能會造成負擔或者是造成一個障礙這個部分我是覺得我們可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14133.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14151.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
至少你要求企業配合至少你希望企業一起來跟進這個政策跟這個理念我覺得這很好但為什麼這裡面毫無鼓勵跟誘因的機制這個部分其實我們會來再看看誘因部分來怎麼來設計但是我要跟委員講我們有先跟這些相關的團體其實我們跟他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14154.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14174.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
有說明過也有溝通過也希望他們能夠我現在說到就是這些當初在倡議這些團體目前對於現在這個方案是很不滿意的是覺得問題很多的是覺得這很可能在這個事辦計畫裡面會運作不起來甚至最後就被以說那就沒有需求來一筆帶過的我現在講的是企業團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14176.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14196.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我的意思是說因為我有對象包括我們自己公部門我也請他們來幫忙參與這個計畫然後譬如說包括這些工商團體我們也幾個比較重要工商團體也請他們來是但是部長但我跟你說其實對這些團體來說你弄一個這樣的他就說好那反正我就不去申請就不干我的事嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14197.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14218.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
你說你要提一個計劃書那他就好啊你就提但是他就不來申請已經在詢問了是但是我現在說的事情是說這個目前事辦計劃的設計在誘因的機制上面或相關門檻上面我覺得真的很多部分並不恰當是不是請部長能夠再重新檢討一下這樣子的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14220.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14247.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
不然我很擔心這反而不符合理念。我是覺得這樣,因為這是一個示範計畫,如果真的有問題,我們隨時都可以檢討。當然,難道示範計畫能夠精進就不精進嗎?對啊,所以我的意思是說,如果示範計畫有空間可以精進,明明我們看到有空間可以精進,但卻不精進嗎?難道只是因為它是一個示範計畫,我就可以隨隨便便嗎?我的意思是說,就是因為示範計畫,所以有問題我們馬上可以來做,包括你剛剛委員在提說, |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14249 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14266.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這個這個誘因啊或者說這個是不是現在5月才要開始現在還有兩個月的時間其實你就可以把這示範計畫弄得再完整規劃的再完整一點再讓他上路到時候示範計畫反映的才會是整體社會有沒有需求正確的資訊而不會因為現在可能我們在計劃規劃設計機制的不恰當或不周全 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14271.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14295.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
反而造成你們想要去了解資訊上面的困難跟阻礙。」我的問題是這個事情所以我們希望在事辦計畫再正式上路即便它是事辦計畫都應該再調整一次再重新規劃一下它的內容我們讓它好好的規劃好再讓它上路好不好好謝謝黃委員也請部長再跟委員持續溝通因為我們時間的關係接下來我們請牛許廷委員進行諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14303.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14305.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
好,謝謝主席,這個勞動部長跟那個衛福部長有請好來,部長跟次長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14315.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14341.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
委員好好辛苦了這個我們就廢話不多說我們就直接進入主題這個保母孽嬰案可以說是一粒老鼠屎壞了一鍋粥這本期當然主張個案要重罰那當然現在從中央到地方各級政府也會這個提供一些補救的措施跟預防未來這樣狀況在上演當然本期今天要藉這樣東西去提醒一下新的措施也許針對個案可以有效預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14341.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14359.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
但是我們也要考量這些措施會不會造成整個產業跟從業人員的問題提高以至於讓更多的幼托人員不太敢投入這個產業的門檻就好像社工的問題一樣所以我想先請問一下你們的報告裡面有寫這個112年我們辦理托育人員訓練有2316人取得資格請問他們實際投入產業的人數跟比例是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14367.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14385.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
取得資格是在技術證這個部分嗎?你們報告寫說你們提供的訓練他們想上完課應該是取得的技術證嗎?現在是哪一個數字?訓練的部分。我們的報告裡面是提到有多少人員受訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14389.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14412.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
勞動部的報告,第三頁,112年暨訓練2316人目前的就業率在追蹤當中不過去年111年的時候我們的就業率,訓後就業率是76%是111,那112的部分我們目前還在追蹤這部分我就先請勞動部提供相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14413.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14435.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我除了關心他們的成功授訓跟成功投入從業的比例之外我也關心年齡比例啊因為這個授訓應該是不會開放嘛你總不會限制年輕人才能參加對不對那很多是所謂的二度就業或者是怎麼樣才能參加對不對那我要知道他的年齡比例所以我希望勞動部會有提供詳細的資料來做一個報告第二個我要去談這件事的原因就是因為我們現在發現的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14437.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14466.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
新人進不來現在全台灣一共有27134名保姆其中50歲以上的佔總人數六成以上也就是說在接下來十幾年裡面可能會有16000多名保姆陸續退休因為即便他是二度就業我們就是讓他發揮他的價值可是年紀跟健康的因素那是不等人的那相對來講如果我們新人沒有補上的話未來還是會有很大的托育缺口會影響我們的托育品質對不對所以要提這件事那為什麼就本期在基層的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14467.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14484.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
很多人在基層是進不來的尤其是年輕的從業人員恐怕不太願意去做幼托人員的工作原因是什麼?我以公共化的保姆為例啊這個勞動部也好、衛福部也好你知道這個在桃園啊大概一個參與準公共化的保姆啊在一般服務的品質、量能之下他的收入大概是多少錢嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14486.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14514.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
收幾個孩子原則上收兩個啦因為你收多了其實大家就擔心品質對不對收少了好像也不太那個就收兩個那個其實是大家專家評估最適合的人數嘛那是三萬塊以上嘛三萬塊以上你都講以上但我告訴你就是三萬或三萬二吧因為按照你參加準公共的話他的薪資其實是有天花板的對不對那請問喔保姆在從事幼托工作的時候他中間吃飯能休息嗎食物上能休息嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14517.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14536.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
應該是不能吧?對不對?大家就是這個是常識嘛所以他們以正常收拖的時間來講其實一天是不是工作十個小時?因為理論上大家講早八晚五中午中間休息算工作八小時可是他的工作特性不能休息嘛所以是十個小時對不對?一到五對不對?禮拜一到禮拜五每天十個小時你知道這樣換算下來他們的平均時薪是多少錢嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14537.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14564.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
勞動部長也要聽一下很重要喔我換算給你聽你3萬塊拖兩個3萬塊一天工作10小時5天來算平均時薪150塊勞動部長我們的勞基法的最低薪資是多少錢27470一個小時一個小時183對不對那這樣換算下來它的平均時薪其實低於勞基法的待遇嘛那即便說你政策上有很多的補貼方案但是總體來講這個環境是低薪我能理解你如果把薪水拉得很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14565.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14589.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
評價托育的政策精神又不見了對不對所以大家都不太敢談這件事情但尤其是在這件事情發生之後我就要談這事啊如果我們的產業環境依然是低薪然後新人進不來的時候我跟你講這個未來的漏洞會越來越大因為我們期待的狀況是人數要夠多、基數要做大嘛你基數要做大大家都願意投入這個產業的時候競爭才會激烈嘛你競爭激烈的時候你的品質才會提升嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14590.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14618.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
這樣才比較健康,那你才能用正常的市場去汰除不適合的保姆啊可是現在狀況是新人進不來,薪水太差,然後那這個你就沒有一股力量去汰除拐瓜裂棗,然後從而間接的導致這樣的悲劇發生這本期今天要強調的重點那我現在就問針對這樣的問題,保姆低薪的問題你如何再繼續兼顧準公共化,不要給家長太多負擔但是又能夠改善這個從業環境的情況之下檢測衛福部跟勞動部的處置措施是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14621.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14647.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
因為這個保姆可能要跟委員再釐清就是說我們的那個托育人員有分在居家有機構的、在職的我現在講總共購號的保姆啦因為現在這個從業比例很高嘛兩萬多93%嘛居家嘛對那居家這個部分我們本來就有一些獎勵的措施所以我們在這次之前的一個修訂的時候就是如果它經過縣市政府的平衡我們會有一個額外的一個一萬兩千元的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14650.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14663.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
協助他改善相關...每個月一萬二還是一年一萬二?一年先一萬二。好,你一年一萬二,你攤下來你看加薪多少錢?是。你算起來有超過基本薪資嗎?我跟你講還是沒有啦。既然要做,就直接大手筆的去改善產業體質。 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14665.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14690.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
既然要說補社會安全網就花資源、花預算用中央的方式去補中間的差額你是不是會比較讓又多人願意覺得說做這個工作有尊嚴然後待遇也好、願意發展你才有辦法把這個餅做大嘛對不對,衛福部你應該不會反對這樣說法嘛好,一樣齁,相關的這些我們剛剛提的問題會不會還是要請提供詳細的書面資料勞動部長也很重要這是你們兩個跨部會的事情請注意他們的勞動待遇可以嗎好,謝謝謝謝好,謝謝牛許廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14694.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14696.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
接下來我們請張雅玲委員進行諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14725.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14748.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好,那我們有請部長,勞動部長,謝謝。好,來,請許部長。部長好。張委員好。我想請教就是說,因為性平三法在3月8號上路了嘛,但是,那這個我覺得是一個非常重要的一個法齁,那,就是我想特別針對於有關於性騷擾的部分齁,就是說,我們其實這裡面也有頒布了 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14749.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14764.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
這個3月7號頒布了這個職場性騷擾申訴處理指導手冊來給我們企業做一個性騷擾的防治指引那這本手冊其實等大家等得非常久但是我發現我們3月8號上路3月7號手冊才出來那這樣企業準備好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14767.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14779.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
報告委員因為其實這個法通過以後其實很多執法的手冊其實要花一點時間所以我們也趕在上路之前把它完成但是完成之後我們要繼續宣導輔導我們這個會持續來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14782.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14805.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我想了解就是說因為有查到112年的時候我們其實總共做了23場的法令說明會然後三場的勞政人員培訓那我想要知道到底有多少人出席因為我們在到2022年的統計我們全台灣符合這個30人以上的企業總共有三萬五千家這樣子23場夠嗎那接下來的規劃是什麼那現在已經有詳細的規劃了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14808.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14823.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
今年我們就是會持續來宣導因為這個法令修改的幅度蠻大的所以現在已經有這些規劃關於今年要持續的去推動了嗎?可不可以告訴我今年的規劃大概是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14825.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14847.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
一到四月我們是排25場對下半年還會有好那沒關係時間有限接下來把那些詳細的具體的宣導部分提供給我們辦公室那再來第二部分我想要知道這個指引手冊裡面有沒有告訴企業要如何的去保護受害者有沒有清楚的去做這些指引有這些方向來協助企業的有有都有這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14854.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14856.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
職、對,在手冊裡面都有是嗎?對,都有。都有,好喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14861.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14887.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
你看像這個知悉性三法處理流程然後這邊就會說好沒關係那我們再來看最後一個地方想要請教就是說因為這個人才資料庫的更新的頻率到底是怎麼樣因為過去在學校這些性平的調查的時候也會有遇到可能專家在裡面的這個專家的遇到一些性平的概念沒有與時俱進所以這些調查人員的人才資料庫大概是多久會更新一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14890.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14911.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我們現在因為剛建制嘛我們現在主要是把人才建制出來那大概會有一個預估是什麼時候會來遲遲的更新嗎?就是說我們現在人才庫我們有新的我們馬上就會增加進去但是也有那種可能不適任的也會有退場這個都隨時應該會隨時更新吧這個我們應該是隨時都會隨時更新對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14917.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14940.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
隨時更新。」好喔那再來就是說我關於企業托育這個部分齁因為在大型企業100人以上我們是需要提供這些托育設施喔那看到這一份文件裡面其實在去年的七指天下也有討、也有詢問過家長喔他們其實是非常希望的喔所以就是說接下來我們就要來詢問一下我們現在其實在企業托育的狀況之下只有還有三成沒有提供任何的托育設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14940.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14956.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那他們主要是說就第一個可能就是沒有預算沒有空間或是員工其實是自行住家他們是非常的分散的那我認為就是因為之前政府也有提供預算的補貼所以這個還有也有說如果不是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14958.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14975.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
沒有空間的話你也可以在1公里以內去提供這個空間所以我認為這都不是理由那我想知道這部分從許部長上任以來到現在也已經5年多了我們有沒有更積極的方式可以來push這些企業去提供相關的育兒措施、托育的服務呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14978.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14988.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
這個部分當然我們也就是盡量來鼓勵企業我想一定要有些不是鼓勵的啦我們應該有個積極的一些措施啊因為其實已經5年了還有對我們其實也會辦一些企業的觀摩讓他們去看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14994.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15016.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
別人可以怎麼做,來讓他們也有這個意願來跟進。」因為有時候這個部分有時候有它的困難點,譬如說它空間真的如果沒有的話,你一秒它設置也真的有困難點。但是我們也有提到是可以一公里以內你可以去找嗎?委外的部分也有,我們是不是可以鼓勵企業也可以提供相關的一些津貼?這個都有啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15018.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15040.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
他如果他如果送托這個我們有給他補貼對可是我們這個我們這個進展的福利率其實是有點低因為我們跟去年比起我們才增加2%好我們在這麼多年努力下來就曾經5但已經5年了4年了就成長5%我們有沒有辦法再更積極的去推動呢因素人都要有可能少子化所以這個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15041.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15044.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15088.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15089.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
好,主席。各位請部長。好,請許部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15096.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15120.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
政委好部長好就業服務法第46條為因國家重要建設工程或經濟社會發展需要經中央主管機關指定之工作可以僱主可以聘僱外國人到中華民國境內從事這個相關的工作這個是去年的一個報導然後這個勞動部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15124.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15130.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
去年3月6日召開勞動部跨國勞動力政策協商諮詢小組第36次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15134.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15159.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這裡面特別原則同意營造業引進營造移工採階段性先行開放總額8000名並視實際情形可增加到開放1.5萬名合配比例為30%請問一下這個已經實施了嗎?什麼時候實施了?實施了 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15162.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15174.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
講一下幾年幾月要列入紀錄什麼時候實施幾年幾月我看一下去年十月十月增加到一萬五 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15175.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15197.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
去年十月增加到一萬五,現在全部合併?直接就一萬五?兩階段,六月是先八千,然後到十月已經就是到一萬五,然後這個是營建署來他們做分配。我知道這個部分,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15202.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15213.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
對於這個《外國人從事就業服務法》第46條第一項第8款至第11款工作資格及審查標準這個你們在112年10月13號做了修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15217.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15233.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那原來的在最早是93年1月13號定定發布的你們不僅把這個人數相關的規定做了人數然後也把這個金額金額也做了這個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15235.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15263.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
本來是以前的2億跟現在的2億差很多所以這個部分也做一再的放寬然後從這8年來總共修了18次這塊修正這塊是8年來不到8年現在還不到8年從蔡總統上任到現在修了18次 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15266.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15286.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
報告委員因為這個在營造業尤其是公共工程方面缺工很嚴重這個都是經過工程會他們有召集相關部會提案評估之後才做一些調整但是我們原住民的失業率依然很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15288.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15308.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
蔡中榮說要保障上望新的工作機會政府要負擔保障原住民就業之責然後要獎勵私部門參與所以這個部分一直開放一直開放然後原住民的失業率並沒有改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15309.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15329.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
報告委員原住民同朋友的失業率是有降勒我知道我知道但是還是改善到跟一般失業率是差不多沒有什麼太大的差別那個部長我都清楚了那個我們現在原住民是3.52國人的平均是3.48不到3.52了我都查過了然後這個統計資料這個審查標準本來第19條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15340.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15368.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
每禁用員僱主已取得初次招募許可後每禁用員住民一人得申請引進外國人兩個人本來有這樣的一個保障的規定如果他沒有禁用的話就應該他就要去繳錢給我們也沒有關係我們有就業基金或是你的就業安定基金但是這個都刪除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15370.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15399.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
如果說我們的失業率都已經比一般的完全一樣的話事實上不是還是有差距嗎?還是有落差嗎?還是有差距?完全把我們禁用的那個都刪除了就業服務法24條都形同西紋了就業服務法24條說要保障原住民的就業現在完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15400.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15425.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
忽視了這個。」所以這個問題我本席在4月12號質詢過部長部長說要回去跟研民會討論結果討論的結果全部都是空話完全沒有辦法解決原住民的一樣我們畢竟失業率還是有錯差不是比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15426.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15452.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
就好啦!還是有落差啊!報告委員,我們那個政策小組其實也有我們原民會的代表意思是說他們同意是不是?他們沒有表達反對的意見啦但是我代表名義上次已經表達了您在關注他就是我們原住民朋友的就業機會還有一些工作保障這個我們會推動方案來把它落實啦這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15453.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15475.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
這個部分這樣的回答,你的含負,你含負了沒有錯,等於是完全沒有含負,所以這個部分還是要請這個勞動部能夠重視,以上。好,謝謝鄭委員。接下來我們請謝一鳳、謝一鳳、謝一鳳委員不在、張家俊、張家俊、張家俊委員不在,我們請范雲委員進行質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15484.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15503.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
好,謝謝昭緯那待會要請部長但是也請昭緯謝謝昭緯辦今天這個跟性別平等有關的部分那可不可以跟我們傅坤祺總召講一下因為我要求修改立法院行為法的回應親自送我的版本給他那希望我們第一大黨可以支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15504.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15531.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
因為根據我們MeToo之後的三法性騷擾防治法中場所的主人應該訂定行為人的懲處的部分那立法院就算不是我們的雇主也是場所的主人嘛本來就應該依照性騷擾法的規定訂定在這個場所性騷擾的就是這個所謂的加害人的懲處可是那個目前就是看起來沒有任何的回應所以請那個召委幫忙請傅坤祺總召回應一下好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15533.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15533.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15543.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15562.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
範圍好部長午安我想今天大家都很關心性平三法的修正我也跟勞動部開過會包含就是細項的部分要請你們處理這部分因為今天時間有限我就不再細講好不好之前勞動部答應的部分如何輔導企業跟這個謀合期我會繼續監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15566.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15586.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
那再來我想今天剛剛包含洪森和委員好像好幾位委員都反應過你們5月要試辦的彈性育嬰假有蠻多問題的我想請問那個部長部長您在那個選舉期間有沒有看過我們三位總統候選人的婦女跟性別相關的證件您有看過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15590.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15592.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
請問您知不知道?有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15615.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15641.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
有知道所以我雖然肯定您知道這個事然後有推這個部分可是目前你們規劃出來這個5月要執行的方案說實在的讓大家據說是擔心跟有點失望不知道我們部長曉不曉得我們長期推動這個議題的民間團體是哪一兩個您知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15647.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15659.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
負女心之跟其他的婦女團體,可是你們在設計的過程有找這些長期推動的團體來討論,然後最後方案出來的時候,他們知道是設計成這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15666.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15678.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
我請部長回答因為這是賴清德未來的總統重要的政見跟勞動部有關的之前我記得我們有找過跟相關團體有開過會但是後來你們這個草案出來的時候他們並不知道長成這樣跟他們想像很不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15685.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15700.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
因為包含那個林淑芬委員有上一任我們就提案了我們其實這個是這樣就是說我們先示範然後如果能夠做的部分影響比較小先往前推然後看看有一些回饋回來我們可以做日後可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15701.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15725.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
做進一步的往前推展的一個參考。我知道部長您的好意是說先求有再求好可是你若一開始就設計錯了就不好用了對不對他就會成效不彰事辦結果成效不彰就會讓他被覺得是個不好的政策所以一開始我們先不要講剛剛洪委員有講過缺乏誘因了 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15725.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15752.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
限制你這邊限制至少5天或7天然後自己又說但是也得一次一天那可是呢像我跟林淑芬委員我們上一屆就提出來的就是蠻多團體主張應該以小時為單位比如說你如果接送小孩可能是對企業來講可能也是比較好的他知道他每天4點鐘可以提早下班也許影響是比較小的可是你完全沒有開放這種方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15752.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15753.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
那你把故事們﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15768.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15785.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
那現在就是比例給可是你又用小時的話但是小時五個兩小時也是十小時它的小時不是說我一次請兩小時而是說我固定比如說禮拜一到禮拜五我都四點鐘下班可以接送小孩就是在小孩幾歲前 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15786.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15808.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
是這個意思就是說不是像請試駕一樣當然那樣子的機會可能是比較小的但是如果要預先請的話應該是這樣規劃那我想這個限制過多沒有足夠的彈性價的彈性加上沒有配套跟看不到完整規劃委員我們現在是這樣這個有一些做法示範它其實是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15809.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15825.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
做一個我們收集意見,而且從實務上來瞭解問題,務實瞭解問題所在。有時候企業你要去鼓勵他亂看看嘛,如果說之後看他們的回饋,怎麼樣可以做未來修法呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15829.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15848.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這個部分當然因為這是一個新的計畫那你說誘因這個部分我們再來想想看但是我的意思是說我們現在是先鼓勵包括公部門自己來帶頭做起也包括一些工商團體 不好意思部長因為時間到了剛剛我的臨時提案裡面已經包含這幾項都要檢討了 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15849.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15864.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
所以現在其實您是沒有理由只有延長就是說截止的時間這個我尊重就是那個司長的意見就是那個部分修正所以其實都要檢討包含就是請你們主推的公民團體針對你們五月上路的方案也要在開會檢討好不好那我是希望一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15872.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15894.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
好的議題不要因為你們的設計的不夠有彈性不夠好最後出現讓大家不想看到的結果然後變成是一個失敗的政策好不好那也請部長會實行我們剛通過的零食跨黨派通過零食提案然後我也會監督這個部分好謝謝部長好謝謝接下來我們請陳培宇委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15899.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15906.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
好,謝謝主席,那有請勞動部還有衛福部,謝謝。好,請部長跟次長。好,部長辛苦了。好,是,部長我相信這個之前這個賴總統的0到6歲國家一起養,您一定非常熟悉,不管520之後您在不在,但是我們都要說,其實大家對於0到6這個概念大家非常的期待,非常多國家政策希望可以往前跟進,我們來看一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15928.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15940.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
支持育兒減少工時或調整時間的措施有沒有機會放寬到6歲?目前的性工法規定是未滿3歲子女得向雇主請求相關條件。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15944.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15971.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
部長點頭,那我們來問一下為什麼是到6歲放寬我們大家期待的想像是什麼我們回到這個兒少法裡面來看兒少法規定未滿6歲的小孩不得單獨讓他獨自在家也就是如果家長有這個托育上的需求他就要往外尋求支持可是如果有機會放寬0到6去修這個性工法有沒有機會讓更多的家長他有這個可能性我們來看一下目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15973.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15979.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
中華電信在2021還是22年的時候已經有相關的規定跟辦法說元旦起養0到6歲小孩提早下班不扣錢我們有沒有機會先從跨部會的國營機構事業開始事半推行我們之前看過相關的報導他們說會有輪班的問題會有其他排班的問題可是如果摒除掉這些因素有沒有機會從國營機構這邊先開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15999.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16019.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
部長點頭再想我們可以就是我們如果國營事業可以帶頭做起當然我們樂觀其成對那有沒有機會有勞動部來發起這個跨部位的會議讓更多國營機構願意積極的跟進當然很多輪班啊現場工作狀況我們都可以全面的考慮跟盤點可是讓這個政策先從國營事業開始有沒有機會可以啦這個我們可以來齁那我們有沒有機會三個月內看到相關的研議會議開始展開然後相關的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16028.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16054.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
三個月內我們來找他們開會三個月內我們來找他們開會我覺得這件事情非常重要當然我們更希望是中小企業也有這個可能性不過因為之前部長也說到中小企業有非常多複雜的因素需要考量我們就先從國營事業來開始第二個我們來看一下最近托育人員這個事情我相信部長你一定有很多的關懷我們來看一下根據衛福部社家屬一一年這邊是先請勞動部請回謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16057.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16078.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
根據衛福部社家屬在110年的研究案說109年托育事故以及虐嬰案件成因分析研究裡面說根據這個裡面很多調查就建議要安排什麼樣的課程呢?包含自我認識的課程、情緒調節的課程提供心理諮商或者是輕職諮商的資源課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16080.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16092.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
那我們來全面性的檢討托育人員的管理機制我們發現其實我們根本沒有足夠的心理支援的支持給第一線的托育人員不知道這個部分你們怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16093.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16100.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
目前我們這些課程其實在他們的在職訓練裡面都有已經有我們來看一下在職訓練好既然次長都講到在職訓練我們來看一下目前各個地方的托育居家托育服務中心他們會辦活動性質、交流性質讓這些托育人員彼此有一些交流的經驗跟分享經驗當然還有一些DIY的活動我們都沒有說這些活動有什麼問題可是我們期待看到這個在職訓練發生了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16122.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16147.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
這個我們發現相關的托育人員在職訓練課程實施計畫裡面你們開了一些規劃給地方政府作為參考你們的規劃有九個課程的類別規定每一年基本時數是18個小時然後三年內要完成九種課程每一種至少三個小時那相關的情緒課程就看到這些對不對可是我們發現一個很大的問題次長跟你分享一下我們以台北市為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16149.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16167.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
一百一十三年他們根據你們的課程指引開出來的課程整個課程呢從今年的四月到十月他們預計開一百一十八堂課程三百五十四個小時的在職訓練課表可是有多少小時是放在促進身心、社會健康呢答案是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16169.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16186.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
以台北來說,他們完全沒有意識到這個課程的配置是重要的,在你們的指引當中有,可是他們完全沒有,就連今年到此時此刻我們調出來的資料,我們甚且發現有些縣市他連課程都沒有上網公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16187.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16205.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我們都還來不及需要更多課程資訊,這個部分次長您可不可以有所回應?好,這個部分我們會來要求地方政府,因為我們的規定都寫得非常清楚,是要幾個面向都要兼顧到。幾個面向,就是我剛剛說的九大類,對嗎?可是他們完全就忽略身心、社會、健康零,這是台北市。 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16206.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16214.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
好,那但是因為他們課表已經開出來了有機會再請他們調整嗎?可以再請他們加開啊好,但是我要說我們沒有要針對臺北市我們希望衛福部統一盤點全臺灣各個縣市政府他們在開相關的課程如果他們的訴求是說他們沒有足夠的講師沒有足夠的資源也要拜託衛福部主動積極提供好嗎?好,沒問題好,那這個部分三個月內可不可以一個月內跟我們相關的報告一個月內因為快速問他們他們課程應該都已經開出來了好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16235.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16252.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
好,謝謝次長,謝謝主席,謝謝。好,謝謝陳北宇委員。接下來我們請游皓、游皓、游皓委員不在。徐欣盈、徐欣盈、徐欣盈委員不在。張祺凱、張祺凱、張祺凱委員不在。王洪威、王洪威、王洪威委員不在。陳盈、陳盈、陳盈委員請上臺質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16266.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16267.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
好 謝謝美麗的主席我們先請這個勞動部自稱沒有背景但是卻很努力認真靠自己這個實力身上師長的這個調評師黃師長 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16290.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16297.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
還有好像很久很久還是歷年來都沒有被叫上台被詢過的法務司司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16310.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16324.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
對啦他本來是副副司長那現在是副司長勞動的法務司是不是對你要勞動法務司那就是副司長所以你現在是正的不是副的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16326.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16340.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
對,所以是正的副司長。好,OK,好,兩位好,我想今天就這個性別平等工作法修訂以來實施的這個成效,好,來,我們今天在這邊跟兩位討教一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16341.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16362.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
首先本期想要反映一下民眾的疑惑就是在這部法案其實是在很短的時間就修訂通過了而且法律名稱也有修改先請教法務司司長平等法跟工作法有什麼法律上的差別其實實質內涵是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16370.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16395.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
好十字內一樣所以你這樣講好像名稱不是很重要好那我這樣問好那我再請教一個問題那除了性別工作平等法以外是否還有其他的工作法我在問法務司司長法案名稱上面有工作法的目前勞動部只有這一部那全部呢全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16398.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16412.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
你還沒有知道有沒有其他的工作坊應該有像是什麼你覺得應該哪裡有也許國家情報 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16413.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16432.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我幫你查好了因為我們也是翻遍了所有的法律也是只有看到這個國家情報工作法而已那法案有沒有修訂這個第一條的這個立法精神你剛剛好像有講就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16433.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16446.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
對第一條沒有啊就是實質上面性別平等還是一樣好就是內容就是那個立法精神也沒有改嗎你剛剛也講都是一樣那我再請教你那為什麼要改名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16448.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16465.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
當時在行政院討論法案名稱的時候是因為教育部叫做性別平等教育法這個我們有猜對我們想說可能是你們是仿效這個教育部的那個性別平等教育法所以改成了工作法但是你們有沒有注意到說這樣一改其實就有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16467.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16493.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
好我這樣問好了你有沒有覺得這個這樣會亂的這個法序的問題有沒有一點亂掉三部法律在處理的時候對於大家的適用次序還有適用範圍當時行政院有做過很嚴謹的討論所以在第一條的那個部分還有第二條的適用範圍其實都有處理對你有講行政院行政院但是因為你在勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16495.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16499.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
法務司 行政院也會聽你們的意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16515.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16532.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
所以司長你可以再跟部長好好討論一下那本席有一個小小的建議就是說這個法案名稱我們如果把它稱作職場性別平等法是不是更為恰當大家可以去 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16533.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16562.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
再討論一下嘛因為我不知道行政院內部的所謂嚴謹討論是是什麼樣的狀態但是我想就我們這邊也是嚴謹的討論然後給予這樣的建議你們再想想我看到有人在點頭了好像還不錯這個因為工作法本其實覺得說他比較難以凸顯這部法案的重點在於平等那沒有平等 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16563.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16570.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
而只有強調工作,就會讓雇主覺得是一個需要額外應付的工作,對於國家進步、人權保障反而是不利的。」接下來我再請教調評師黃司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16585.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16603.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我們看了一下這個各個條文其實規範的他不是不只是性別其實性傾向我認為是更是應該這部法案要被關切的一個重點那同性戀在這個職場上會不會被歧視你們有關切過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16604.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16621.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
這個部分的話它是也是屬於我們的性別歧視的範圍之內那所以說同性之間如果是因為同性的那個性別然後來做歧視或者說性騷擾的部分這個法它其實都有含括這個法都有含括適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16622.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16648.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
好那我再請教齁因為數字會講話啦那個你們的性騷擾通報系統有沒有包括性傾向受到歧視的通報有沒有也就是說同系列的這個性別平等的權益有沒有在這部法案受到這部工作法的保護在申訴案件的那個那個分類上面是有把它列出來是一個單獨的相冊有分類出來齁是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16652.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16666.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
所以在這個通報的個案當中你有沒有看到有沒有屬於這個同性別的性騷擾呢?在我們過往的個案是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16667.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16690.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
過往的個案但是在地方的審議上面來講以往的規定的話大概處理的是性別在幾件裡面看到幾件是這樣的案例案例它比例上在所有性別的事件裡面它的比例是比較沒有像一般的我們異性之間尤其是男性對女性的部分來講沒有那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16691.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16714.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
好我等一下會因為這邊有看到數字嘛你看從105年到112年將近這個89年快10年的時間通報是七件喔你要跟我從七件裡面算比例我也是很好奇你怎麼算好沒關係你們建立的這個專家人才資料庫有沒有什麼評選的基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16716.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16744.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
專家人才資料庫大概有四類型的人員那一類的話是由律師公會來推薦的那個律師那有意願的那第二類的話是地方的性評會還有就期會裡面的已經擔任過的委員那經過地方推薦過的那還有一個是縣市府推薦過來的那個相關的NGO團體還有意願的那還有一個的話就是有就現在已經有的衛福部、教育部的人才庫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16745.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16752.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
勞他有意願的人來參訊。所以聽起來有意願是一個非常重要的考量點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16753.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16779.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
是,因為將來他的資料要放在我們的人才庫裡面大家聽到了意願意願意願那我想要問的是他們的專業度是不是足以處理同性別在性傾向歧視及性騷擾的這個上面的問題就是說這樣的能力因為我一直聽到你注重他們的意願但是我都沒有聽到你很注重他們的在這方面的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16780.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16801.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
好所以因為我是從這個剛剛的統計數據要不要回去看一下那個好剛剛那一張就是在所有過去通報的七件這麼多年的七件好你們就是這些這些你們所謂的專家人才處理的對於這七件的這個通報處理的怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16803.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16819.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
那你覺得說所有通報的管道都很暢通嗎?畢竟這這麼多年來只有7件這個部分的話我們會加強那也跟我們報告那你覺得7件你相信只有7件嗎?我相信實際的數字應該會比這個高那你覺得7件合理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16821.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16840.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
這麼多年來只有七件你覺得合理嗎?七件的話是因為我們之前的這個設計的制度包括性三法的申訴等等那這些的話大概讓民眾覺得不放心沒有出來去申訴所以你在其實就是這個管道上你們其實有意識到有一些問題嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16841.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16867.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
是,所以在這個今年大概新校三百……好,那我更明確的問你齁,你們有沒有定期統計分析通報,就是分析通報案例的這個特性跟趨勢,有沒有?我們大概做那統計的部分的話就有做一些分析。對,那特性跟趨勢你們有分析嗎?目前看到的話是在就業歧視的部分還是會有一些,但是已經慢慢的大家意識到……所以特性跟趨勢,你…… |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16870.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16896.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
其實的部分的話是比較有改善那那個性三法部分因為這去年以來當然有一個me too的事好那我再問你我再問好了那你有沒有性別平等方面的指標可以顯示說勞動部的勞動部主管的這部法案好的實施成效相關的部分的話我們目前的統計在現有的統計的話就是各個案件的申訴的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16897.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16924.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
申訴的部分和處理的部分那你覺得案例數越多是越能代表就是代表越有成效還是說案例數越少越好報告委員他的案例數的話會有時間和階段性的變化比如說我們這三法修正以後他短期間有可能在性騷擾的案件或者說我們開一個可以收在外面的話有外部單位收件的這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16925.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16938.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
的這個事件,它短期會高,但是這個高的話也代表大家意識出來,可是這個高過以後,這個高峰應該它應該下降下來才是一個正常的情況。好,我想是這樣子啦,因為畢竟從105年到112年全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16942.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16957.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
竟然將近十年只發生七件。」我覺得這數字是一個非常詭異的數字那我是不知道說你們的申訴管道不太暢通還是說你們過去的成效太好那我提出這樣的質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16958.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16978.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
性別平等的內涵在職場工作上本是只有性騷擾及育嬰停留,這只是最基本的性傾向的尊重及教育也應該同時被重視及宣導勞動部目前本期比較看不出來有這樣的關注 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16980.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17006.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
所以這是我今天提出質詢的目的那我也希望說這部法案的施行那可以定期發佈相關的統計數據然後而且讓這些數據可以建立良好的指標那透過這些指標呢就可以凸顯我們台灣在性別平等保護的這個進步那成為真正這個顯示台灣尊重多元性別的價值那這個法案不是只有單純說去規範僱主的或者是職權騷擾的這個處理而已那 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17010.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17033.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
但是我最後還是要謝謝勞動部部長也帶領兩位司長跟其他同仁的努力那希望這個未來因為有這部法案的施行也可以讓全世界知道說我們台灣在這個尊重職場性別平等的進步然後凸顯我們台灣人權法制的這個進步跟價值謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17034.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17039.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
好,謝謝陳瑩委員接下來我們請楊耀委員進行質詢謝謝主席主席我先請一下許部長好,來請許部長楊委員好部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17061.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17085.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
部長我們在職場的性平三法正式上路以後呢就是保護、輔助、入法保護、輔助、入法那各界都期盼可以接觸性騷擾的被害人因為受性騷擾的被害人其實是很必須要保護的一群人 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17090.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17110.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
以性別平等工作法來看就是各地方政府才是主管機關對,他們是主要執行機關可是呢地方政府的財政跟醫療量能狀況都不一樣我請問一下有沒有辦法督促地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17112.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17120.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
然後而且我們也可以掌握保護服務措施怎麼規劃整體的諮詢醫療還有心理諮詢的建置進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17125.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17144.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
我們其實之前已經有請各地方政府他要去鏈接他相關的這些醫療、社福等等包括法律相關的資源來讓被害人能夠運用因為我們也特別勞動部有訂定一個補助地方政府辦理工作場所新造防治業務計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17146.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17165.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
有計劃?有沒有預算?他錢就是我來給他那這樣子就是說因為剛開始可能地方政府他可能經費上沒有編所以我們為了要讓他能夠提供被害人最完善的一個支持所以這個錢就是由我勞動部這邊來編計劃給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17170.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17189.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
有沒有要求地方政府在一定的期限內盤整各項資源並且建立統一的窗口?統一窗口有嗎?是單一窗口?有,有,對。我們目前,像澎湖縣政府跟我們報告,澎湖縣政府我們現在補助他人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17190.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17193.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
二、邀請衛生福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17209.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17237.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
幾乎他提來我全部補對因為我們修法的目的就是要讓法律可以執行因為我這個事情我就是非常重視我就當時候就跟部裡面講說我們先部裡面一定要編經費來支持那個地方政府來執行因為做口供的是他們對啦他也要給被害人一些協助那經費的部分我們盡量能夠支持就支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17239.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17264.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
謝謝部長,然後也跟部長講一下就是其實罪寇綱也不只地方政府,其實從中央到地方我們要建置一個完善的職場我是說中央跟地方一起合作那當然我剛剛聽到人事費用就給了近百萬沒有人確實就是這很多事情執行不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17266.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17272.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
好 謝謝部長主席我再請一下李次長好 請李次長委員好次長好次長上個禮拜我們衛福部有針對出養兒童遭虐致死案召集了雙北市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17294.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17309.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
進行會議。會後有八點的精進作為。大方向來看,我就是初步來看,精進的作為多數都是要求地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17311.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17337.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
經濟現有的措施但是地方政府其實在執行上一定會有困難的難處我相信衛福部這邊很清楚在社工的人力跟資源還沒有緩解的情況下經濟作為只會讓現有的人力的工作量更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17339.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17367.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那正常的情況呢量大你要要求質好這個是不可能的大家不用在這邊講很好聽的話就是說工作量大了你要要求他的工作的產值很好質量很好這個不可能那我想要請教一下次長就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17368.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17394.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
到底要怎麼做才能夠精進地方政府跟中央政府合作解決系統性的問題?跟委員報告就是我們這一次的一個轉變就是說過去受促養就是所有的工作都交給民間團體去做那現在就是說其實依這個案來講他本來就是在我們社福中心的脆弱家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17395.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17415.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
在服務的案案子。」所以其實我們是希望就是說那個縣市政府應該去了解說一個孩子要被出養的這樣的一個情況其實他就應該是符合我們脆弱家庭的一個定義那我們應該就回到社安網裡面的社福中心要進行退家的一個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17416.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17440.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
然後如果真的要安置的話也要縣市政府來承擔這樣一個安置的一個工作那如果要經費的話不足的部分我們中央也承諾會來補助那我們會再請縣市政府再去盤一下就是說那因為這樣子出養童所所需要的人力是不是需要增加因為其實目前在全國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17441.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17464.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
出養要等待出養的孩子其實大概是400多人那其實大部分的已經都在我們的保護系統跟委託案制的系統裡面其實是少數在媒合機構不是不是市長你現在講的是聚焦在這一次的事件我講的是說我不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17466.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17495.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
你們這個是指專對這個個案嗎?不是嗎?以後大概精進的方向是這樣子嗎?所以還是會回到源頭啦所以你社工的人力不增加社工的待遇不增加我其實對這個對這一方面的議題我已經有一點膩了啦就是說我在這個委員會第13年大概幾乎每幾乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17497.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17518.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
最常討論到的就是社工的薪資跟人力社工負擔了那麼大的那麼重要的社會角色可是我們因為薪資的問題所以造成人力的不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17520.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17544.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那這個社會安全網的架構我在看社會安全網其實就是社工安全網所以我們幾乎把很多工作全部都是遇到問題就檢討社工那我們又不去替真正的問題又不願意去面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17546.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17568.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
跟委員報告就是說如果是社工分公部門的社工跟民間的社工那我們公部門的社工其實在這次社安網裡面就是都用聘用的方式以前可能還是臨時人力的方式現在在社安網裡面都是用聘用那它的職等其實它跟公務人員的 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17570.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17570.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
職等及薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17584.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17607.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
行政院爭取說我們還是要這樣設計我也不覺得高過正式的公務人員有什麼問題所以我們這一次的社安網公部門就其實那個在聘用已經有一些是高過公部門那在民間的補助的社工我們在今年其實也跟行政院爭取說也在今年就調薪了8.16所以就是說一畢業的社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17612.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17615.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
他的出任的薪資是到了3萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17617.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17641.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
7.7千多,然後還有一些佳績。」市長因為我時間到了我這樣子講就是說薪資除了可以對於想要投入社工行業的人有一個強烈的誘因以外相對的也代表他的社會地位我一直覺得現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17643.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17659.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
社工的社會地位不夠崇高。」理論上像我們長期在衛環我們就覺得社工是一份很值得尊敬的工作可是你沒有用適度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17660.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17661.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
公部門應用適度的方法讓他得到應有的社會地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17677.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17703.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
一定是非常重要這個社會福利的推動一定要靠我們社工夥伴一起來努力那我最後也只能再問一個問題就是說像這一次我不講這個社工本身到底有沒有什麼失誤這個不談就是說因為他被上了手銬總是對於整體社工界 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17705.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17716.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
的士氣是一件很大的打擊。」是。你們怎麼對社工界產生對話?好。其實我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17717.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17719.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
全體社會福利及職業道德之培訓策進 全體社會福利及職業道德之培訓策進 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17736.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17760.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
單一社工。」我們也不覺得所有的責任都應該社工來扛我們要檢討的是系統的一個問題那今天我們也這個相關的抗上手銬這個部分我們的警政署這邊也有做了一些檢討那我們這一次委員應該知道我們這次有五大工會來我們衛福部進行一些訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17761.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17790.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
那他們也特別提到就是說社工的個資還是這些受虐兒童的個資那這個部分我們也會在最近的行政院的那個社安網的溝通平台會議也會提正式的提案我們會希望各部會能夠一起來重視這樣一個問題因為有些可能是跟媒體有關係的那這個部分我們會請各部會一起來重視然後看未來怎麼樣子在報導還有在媒體自律這個部分能夠做什麼樣一個努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17790.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17806.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
我覺得應該這麼講就是說單一事件到底有沒有犯錯違法這個是一件事不過整體媒體披露出來的確實對於社工的士氣打擊很大這個請 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17818.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17831.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
請市長就是盡可能的讓社工的工作熱情可以回來然後讓他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
17834.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
17854.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
讓更多一點的人願意投入我們也必須要在制度的設計上給予適當的待遇特別是我特別反對就是遇到事情增加工作量可是不增加人力那這樣子的話問題就會不斷的產生這部分我們都會一併來做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
17861.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
17880.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
所以我們在訪視的那個部分,我們本來就會再找專家學者跟縣市政府一起來討論。謝謝主席。接下來我們請黃建豪、黃建豪、黃建豪委員不在、何新淳、何新淳、何新淳委員不在。 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
17883.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
17897.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
本日會議詢答全部結束委員楊耀、王宏威、張祺凱、邱振鈞所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定一、報告及詢答完畢二、委員質詢即位 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
17899.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
17915.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其鎖定本日會議到此結束現在休息星期四上午9點繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
17931.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
17932.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
有限職場、職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員職員 |