| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc78d56ce4a6375237834bb4711a257b5f16e2c62e3913b464aaf8aafe3010ccbfc666046cd716335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林淑芬 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:58:28 - 11:22:53 |
| 影片長度 |
1465 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案關於衛生福利部主管預算（公務預算及基金）。（僅詢答，113年12月6日下午5時截止收案）） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
6.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
6.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
26.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長好這個職場霸凌的這個案件鬧得沸沸揚揚的那因為我們集團署也被爆料那我首先要先在這裡跟大家講根據111人力銀行的這個調查報告職場霸凌裡面的產業別除了傳統製造業的18%最高以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
49.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
公務部門的職場霸凌比例,雖然排名第4,但第3是12%,第2名是13%,第4名是12%,相差無幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
63.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
67.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
意思就是說公務體系、公家機關、教育部門這些公部門裡面的職場霸凌的問題這個是僅次於製造業這樣子是非常嚴重的這是人力銀行的調查報告職場霸凌在公務體系很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那我再來講第二個問題是說這種事情我們不是有正規的管道嗎當受到不法侵害不是有正規管道嗎為什麼這些議題都是透過爆料然後報導出來然後機關才去重視甚至出人命了只包不住火了才要去面對通常都是因為內部的正常的管道被冷處理被壓建 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
120.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這是基本上整個事件的本質一定是這樣子這樣你知道我在說什麼嗎我們對於相關的事件一定讓他絕對要預防跟不允許他有這樣的發生那今天署的整備組組長的事件兩年內你知道你們署內離職的人員高達幾成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
集管署12%12%人家外面講說高達三四成那你講12%也可以整備組我講是署內整備組呢37%這是正常人員的流動正常的嗎37% |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
176.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
現在離職後的空缺多數也補不到人補不到人以後其他的業務其他的公務人員要分擔更多所以這種狀況裡面顯然因為這個組長的作為讓人家待不住然後呢很多人離職了那沒有離職的人還要做更多所以這個單位是高壓狀態高壓狀態所以難怪有人在講說真的不要再逼死人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
210.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那這個組長被人家投這個被人家爆料缺乏耐性每天緊逼進度更新要創新要亮點卻不顧本業務本業的業務無法運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
218.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一分鐘的錄音聽起來還好可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
246.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
256.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果這個組長在對他們組裡面的工作同仁是天天這樣說天天這樣子罵這裡面的人天天都要聽到組長這樣霸凌和羞辱情緒會好嗎?士氣會好嗎?一定會影響你看我的公文當時發給你的我的公文一星期 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
290.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個是我發的公文11月15號這個事情我就講你們內部有沒有人檢舉有沒有人爆料有沒有人陳情過我們今天中午機關會送我現在在問你們啊你就在這裡回答我就好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
292.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
跟委員報告那這位組長他是應該說都沒有被事先有被申訴過完全都沒有沒有那為什麼我會知道為什麼會出這張公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
322.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那個應該是說在15號12月上面是有人爆料啦翠上面爆料你有沒有聽過網路當時你有沒有聽過網路上的錄音檔當時翠上面爆料說今天署長你本人知不知道15號當時你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
15號當時所以PO出來我就知道了你就知道以後你怎麼處理那當時我們大概就召開了應變的會議那也應變會議幾月幾日開15號15號當天就開當天也針對這個案因為他沒有一個主要的一個申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
340.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
原本職場霸凌的作業辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
365.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
389.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
機關首長就是你嘛是你要負責處理我負責都沒有人提出之前其實有另外一件其實我們有按照那個程序去處理了投訴的是組長嗎不是不是另外一件那現在我15號就跟你們講了但是呢我們希望就是說你們本來是說兩個月之後要提供調查報告啦你們私底下這樣回答我們要兩個月喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
結果現在我也是雖然你們院長現在已經下令了要一個禮拜內調查好但我也不會苛責你多久時間因為調查報告要呈現真實客觀不包庇才是最重要而不是只是求急那我再請教你你這一份未來的行政調查報告會不會包括去問已經離職的前職員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
435.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
報告委員那這個我們今天已經開始針對這個離職的部分個別致電了那瞭解他們是不是願意受訪你知道這個問題是什麼嗎因為昨天我也詢問過勞動部的那個勞法署的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
436.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員會主席林淑芬 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這件事情我們就等你因為這個不法侵害對於整個同仁士氣大吉很大好來那保定我請教你正規正辦的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
484.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
488.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
今年年初這個看守臺灣臺灣的環保團體看守臺灣公布了全球的調查報告指出全球性的環保組織國際污染物消除網絡就是IPEN它在2022年有一個跨國的調查計畫總共檢測17個國家119種食品包材樣本有64個品項驗出PFAS |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
測出率高達54%（而直掀餐盒．我們覺得說植物纖維餐盒好像很棒．但是偏偏．直掀餐盒檢出PFAS的濃度最高．所以我們台灣．看守台灣團體．就把台灣的採樣．送到iPen去檢驗．他送了17個．最後只有8個被檢驗．他們有篩選． |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
537.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
8個品項受驗有7個品項測出含有PFAS5件的TOF超出用來判斷是否刻意添加PFAS的丹麥標準6件超出比丹麥標準更寬鬆的歐盟草案標準就是50ppm超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
586.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
8件裡面就有6件超過比較寬鬆的標準就歐盟草案的標準PFAS的測出率和超標狀況都比國際調查計劃他們去監測其他17個國家的平均檢測值還要更嚴重那結果計劃包裁我現在要公佈了計劃包裁分類說明檢測如下他們有公佈在他們網頁你的書店有沒有看過我看書店你有去看過嗎看守台灣的公佈品項你有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
莊市長市長沒有看過喔報告委員我還沒有去看你沒有看過我跟你報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
612.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
但是那個批法這個說我們會跟環境部合作那個進行源頭的金融品項的來我跟你講我給你報告你沒看過我給你報告防油紙袋不要忘了台灣人的第一餐從早餐開始蔥油餅蔥抓餅餡餅還有什麼早餐袋三明治都從防油紙袋開始的摩斯漢堡的紅豆派紙袋 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
626.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
628.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算．審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算． |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
648.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
對食品安全的最大的疏忽和最大的縱放就是沒有任何標準沒有標準就不違規都不用受罰這反有指代接下來我講 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
665.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
維波爐爆米花的內裝紙袋7-11賣的啾哩啾哩 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
688.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
707.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
朱莉·泰姆 微波爆米花（好市多賣的．克蘭的．微波爆米花兩件都檢測出PFAS全部超出丹麥的TOF標準就20ppm有一件超出較寬鬆的歐盟TOF標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
710.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
714.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
直掀參核﹐台灣某容器生產商的參核檢測出PFAS﹐它的含量是歐盟草案標準﹐已經是最寬鬆的﹐57倍PFAS﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
741.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
758.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
再生紙包材 臺灣終於有一個法規還可以臺灣的再生紙包材是不能夠跟食品直接接觸的也不能使用再生紙的所以這類能收集到的不跟食品直接接觸的但是有風險的就是裝彈的彈盒其中有兩個品項進行檢測 一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
全聯賣的勤益是好雞能蛋勤益是好雞能蛋它的蛋核檢測出PFAS同樣的主婦聯盟的快樂主婦雞蛋的蛋核沒有沒有檢出這樣 部長你知道PFAS它的風險在哪裡嗎部長 你要聽過PFAS嗎阿姨的風險在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
794.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
799.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這很誤會,這已經大家沸沸揚揚說很久了,這幾年都在說PFAS部長,不知道沒關係,保證沒關係雖然你是醫生的,但是你可能不知道雖然這個議題很夯啊,大家討論的,不管從環境或是食品安全來講討論得沸沸揚揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
817.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
834.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我是知道這個最近大家都有在談這個啦因為PFAS是工業和消費產品當中應用最廣泛的化學物質包括防油防水抗汙所以他很廣泛的在利用連包括衣服上都也有連那個鍋具都有連那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
835.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
860.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
化學消防泡沫都有連防水醫療食品包材一次性的悲劇在台灣人吃那個紅茶啦中島吃的便當空啊裝披薩的披薩盒啦速食店的包裝啊這個小吃攤路邊攤所有的包材都有PFAS農藥相片染劑化妝品保養品我們的主本的鍋具塗層通通都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
860.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
863.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
所以你做衛福部部長．．若不了解．．其實是．．可不應該一組阿巴委員齁 我想那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
870.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
891.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
雖然明年食藥署有一個計畫 我覺得我會請他們喔 現在你為了這次叫明年有一個計畫來 我跟你講 它是永久性的化學物質 不易被分解 生物環境的蓄積累積性的毒物它遠距離的環境傳輸 而且它持久性而且因為累積 不但累積再累積 所以它有生物的放大性 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
892.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
892.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
916.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
916.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
北極熊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
937.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
942.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
對人體的危害有肝臟受損、心血管疾病、甲狀腺、透過母體傳輸給胎兒的慢性腎臟病、睪丸癌等等在這種狀況裡面PFAS經由食品、飲用水、日常用品、空氣中的粉塵、食品包裝這個是很嚴重的它對於免疫系統、肝臟系統和甲狀腺性的功能影響很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
962.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
972.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
他在安全性的數據上面大部分都可以通過腸胃道吸收進入人體人體中的濃度與血液肝臟腎臟較高短鏈的PFAS容易經由尿液排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
979.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
991.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
常戀的PFAS由糞便排除但是對人類短戀的估計半衰期從幾天到一個月不等但是對常戀的PFAS要需要好幾年好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
994.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
999.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
以確保飲用水水質安全和品質（而且今年年底就要完成公告你們做了哪些事關於PFAS的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1025.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1032.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
國際監視商會定有批發值的一個...你清晒講講不要亂講喔你講得比較清楚的喔還沒有定出限量食品容器的現在只說食品容器我講國際喔我念你聽你說國際到現在都沒有人有聽我講給你聽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1054.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1068.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
對斯德哥爾摩公約他在2009年起禁止生產和使用PFOS及其顏類因為PFOS是很多類很多類的總和的名稱PFOS包含很多東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1069.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1078.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那其中PFOS包含了很多東西．PFOS的裏面的PFOS．他2009年就禁止了．2020年禁止使用PFOA．2022年起計劃要將PFHXS及其顏類納入條約．而且在2023年要生效． |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1092.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1107.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
2023年1月去年 荷蘭 德國 丹麥 瑞典 挪威已經向歐洲化學管理局提交了限制提案 而且這個生效也要將禁止在消費品當中使用PFAS 全禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1108.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1137.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
他是全禁欸但是之前是禁了PFO是PFOPFHXS並不是沒有他是沒有全禁而已我們環境部的確也禁了PFOA啦PFOA 我在說你啦然後呢依照歐盟2023年3月資料歐盟諸委會我們當然就不能用了歐盟人家是禁他們歐洲不能用不是我們不能用啦我們都本地生產本地使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1137.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1161.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們毫無標準我們連基礎調查都沒有你們來這裡還敢講說我們外國沒有所以我們沒有不要講美國在6月美國參議院通過防止食品容器受到PFAS危害法案從今年開始他們就禁止銷售任何含有PFAS的食品包裝你現在跟你說世界各國都沒有人金你是在裝瘋欸你這個書店跟你說的話我會理你就相信喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1166.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1192.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
美國近年去的全部都不能有還有批發的食品包裝欸你不要講這麼多啦 我想問你 你有做過調查嗎尤其環境部已經在112年就委託人家去調查所有的營用水的水質和新興污染物的調查和管理計畫讓他們的調查所有有的水庫已經做了很久的這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1194.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1196.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
結果水庫也沒有每天使用的免洗的紙餐盒也沒有用咖啡杯也沒有用紙袋結果水庫裏面他們抽樣發現PFOA 37個樣品側值大於室內客的佔了74% |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1213.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1221.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
PFOS 13個樣品 測值大於4個耐克1公升的 佔抽樣%是26%這兩年測量水 因為水值就是高山 老外的就測不中啊 啊我們每天在吃的人要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1232.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1257.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我最好問你啦我們有沒有食品安全監測計畫這幾年來有做過嗎這個 莊市長回答一下當然也沒有 你什麼都不知道喔有 我們有做過相關的來相關的你給我聽報告委員 那個我們食品要務曾經在100年及112年辦過食品中PFOS的含量的調查那我們這次大概在114年還會再做一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1259.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1273.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
來你把調查報告給我看我要講相較於水質調查台灣PFAS食品風險評估有沒有做過有112年有做過什麼你們調查報告叫什麼名字我講風險評估剛剛是講監測計畫調查報告這是兩件事欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1279.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1297.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
報告委員這個是叫食品中持久性有機汙染物全服碗機化合物質調查及風險評估好調查報告送來調查完成了好那歐盟2022年發布了2022及1431規章建議成員國和食品業應該在2022到2025間監測食品中的這些PFAS家族監測期間如果發現人家是這樣講如果發現蔬果 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1308.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1315.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
訓類、乳品及嬰兒食品含量高於指定濃度時要進一步的調查原因那請問你們這個計畫裡面有沒有同時跟上如果你發現蔬果、訓類、乳品、嬰兒食品含量高於指定濃度的時候你要進一步調查為什麼?污染的風險來源是什麼?原因在哪裡?你們有沒有這樣子做?我們會在114年這個計畫中做 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1337.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1350.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那你們還執行一個食品中污染物質及毒素暨包裝包裝容器器具的檢驗方法開發和精進研究你們剛剛講的是你們研究的是這些持久性的化學風品對人的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1352.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1358.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那我現在講的是那台灣各種食品安全的監測的研究有沒有沒有那你們有一個食品中污染物質在包裝容器上的這個PFAS的風險評估有沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1370.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1387.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為你們講的是檢驗方法開發和經濟研究結果2022年做的要2025年才公佈2023年2024年都有做結果你們要2025、2026、2027年才要公佈您的其中報告各送一份到我們辦公室來可以嗎其中報告不要到final |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1389.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1417.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以我要要求食品安全監測計畫我不是講持久性PFAS的物質對人體的風險而已台灣各種食品台灣環境裡面或是各種包裝他的監測計畫要做長期全面性的監測你了解問題有多嚴重才知道要怎麼管制和解決你可以不做你不做的前提是全部都管制直接禁止使用你有辦法嗎保定 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1418.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1445.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
你若沒有做監測計畫不了解問題多嚴重你比照美國全面禁用可以嗎有辦法全面禁用嗎PFAS我們這幾年來最重要的一個工作啦齁那如果一定要把它做到最好所以委員所提示的指教的我們馬上都來進行我在問你說阿拉伯戶阿部總部金融食品容器食品包裝全部禁用PFAS有辦法馬上全禁嗎我們馬上來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1447.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1448.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席主席 |
| IVOD_ID |
157316 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157316 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-10 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-21T10:58:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-21T11:22:53+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |