| IVOD_ID |
157281 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157281 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-21T10:13:48+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-21T10:23:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:27 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fc78d56ce4a63752d3afa9a32f3ca84f7f9c834d54a4e02c40b19c4a6d232d91c72e5195eda2e44e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:13:48 - 10:23:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院歲入預算第5款第1項第2目暨國家發展委員會及所屬單位預算部分。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金。(詢答)） |
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主席有請主委 |
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39.966 |
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68.053 |
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好,主委好,這個花東地區發展條例是在民國100年這個立法院三讀通過所以花東基金呢從101年開始那現在已經是第4期了所以已經超過這個十幾年了在這樣一個過程的當中這個明年度的預算是邁入這個第4期的第2年 |
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69.793 |
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95.929 |
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必須也需要去檢討過去才能去怎麼樣去針對明年度的預算甚至往後的年度的預算尤其是計劃的核定來做一個檢視我們看這個花東地區發展條例總共只有13條擴除第一條的立法目的以及最後一條公佈施行就總共這個 |
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104.724 |
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121.836 |
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9條,13條,擴調2條,11條11條裡面,光提到原住民的條文就3條第1個就是第5條,原住民族群生活條件及環境改善還有第8條,原住民族生存保障與文化保存 |
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123.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
144.482 |
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因依原住民族基本法規定擬定相關的這些方案推動原住民族人才培育、輔導原住民參與自然資源維護以經營管理然後這個第11條建遣原住民族部落之交通及公共運輸所以我們要檢視過去的 |
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147.506 |
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174.228 |
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已經完成的三期到底原住民族的部分因為花蓮台東啊花蓮台東是原住民人口最多的地方啊花蓮台東所以這個部分是一個很重要的各族群都有原住民的各族群都有所以在這樣的一個情形之下要去檢視然後因為整個方案 |
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176.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
200.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
都要提到國發會所審查的所以這個國發會就要基於指導花蓮、台東怎麼樣能夠均衡尤其是對原住民族的部分能夠更為加強尤其是各鄉鎮你們有提供給各鄉鎮會有部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
203.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
217.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
提出計畫的一個機會那更是一個更是一個可以去強化的地方所以這個部分請這個國話會的同仁能夠去加強檢視這個部分好我們看這個這個為了因應這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
222.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
250.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
五次來水的嚴管這是本席在上一屆的時候因為0918地震的時候特別協調經濟部因為經費的不足五次來水計畫經費不足所以就請他們提報到國發會國發會在審查之後送到行政院也核定了這個部分這個是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
251.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
270.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這是第一次由花東基金來去支應、去協助這個無自來水的計畫。對,我們支應了3億。對,所以這個部分當時,當時的一個經費的配置,花東基金49多萬,然後這個7000多萬,無自來水計畫7400多萬,總共14510萬,這是兩年的計畫,這個兩年的計畫到今年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
277.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
299.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那新的就是從明年開始的這個無自來水第7供水改善計畫第5期這個也已經在國會審查之後報行政院在11月18號也核定了我之所以這個要把它提出來也是要去檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
301.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
328.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
也去檢視因為現在是花東地區花東基金去投入去協助而這樣的協助要去檢視說因為這之前核定的時候因為急著需要所以沒有去檢視但是現在核定了也可以去檢視檢視什麼呢要請這個同仁第一個就是說無自來水地區的供水改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
329.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
352.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
明年開始第5期那過去的4期過去的4期在花蓮、台東是多少的經費比如說我們就講第3期好了因為第4期有花東基金投入我們就看第3期第3期整個花東是多少經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
354.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
382.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
多少經費的比例在整個第3期裡面花東的經費佔多少比例是多少錢然後呢我們就要去計算這個第5期啊這個3億花東基金3億應該是要佔多少的比例所謂多少的比例是這樣啊我是擔心啊我是不希望這樣發生啊但是我們要去協助去督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
383.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
411.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就是說不要因為有花東基金就全部用花東基金再投入在花東啊我第一次說你還是要有原來的第三期的那個比例我們應該是針對那個成本因為它有一個成本的那個每戶成本的那個計算多出來的部分由花東基金來投入譬如說它是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
413.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
439.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
每戶單位單價成本是一百萬的話那超過的部分是由花東基金來去投入這樣才是有一個幫助我們的同仁有瞭解我的意思嗎這樣有瞭解所以這個部分是不是能夠把第三期的第三期的投入在花東的部分到底是多少經費然後它所佔的比例是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
440.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
440.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
檢視第5期應該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
471.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
487.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個也謝謝檔案管理局過去為了這個過去原住民的檔案我也曾經去過這個檔案管理局去查資料我現在就是說我曾經跟行政院要這個公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
488.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
517.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
因為我當初我是當處長的時候親自去參加行政院政務委員的會議而且那時候請這個人民會的主任委員去參加為了新民條例羅馬拼音的我只是舉案例不必看得那麼仔細我只是舉案例這個像這樣的一個檔案到底是怎麼樣的不能提供怎麼樣的才能夠提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
519.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
540.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個部分因為各部會的意見不太一致資料不公開不能公開還是怎麼樣像這樣的這個部分是不是好像這個洗令龍的這個老檔案都可以調出來所以這個部分是怎麼樣的才能夠怎麼樣的不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
541.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
564.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一般的行稿不是機密的我譬如說我當副主委的時候到底我有沒有蓋章類似像這樣要去查的時候因為說不行資訊公開不符合資訊公開法所以這個部分是不是可以去提供後面的書面資料還是口頭再跟我講好了再給你報告好好好謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
296 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時14分）主席、各位委員。有請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請國發會劉主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：鄭委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好。花東地區發展條例是在民國100年在立法院三讀通過，所以花東基金從101年開始，到現在已經是第四期，所以已經超過十幾年了。在這樣的過程當中，明年度的預算是邁入第四期的第二年，我們必須檢討過去，然後才能針對明年度的預算，甚至往後的年度預算，尤其是計畫的核定來做一個檢視。花東地區發展條例總共只有十三條，扣除第一條的立法目的以及最後一條的公布施行，十三條扣掉兩條總共是十一條，在這十一條裡面，光是提到原住民的條文就有三條，第一個就是第五條關於原住民族群生活條件及環境之改善；還有第八條規定原住民族生存保障與文化保存，應依原住民族基本法規定擬定相關方案，推動原住民族人才培育，輔導原住民參與自然資源維護與經營管理；然後第十一條是健全原住民族部落之交通及公共運輸。所以我們要檢視過去已經完成的三期，針對原住民族的部分，因為花蓮、臺東是原住民人口最多的地方，所以這個部分是很重要的，包括原住民各族群都有，在這樣的情形之下我們要去檢視。因為整個方案都要提到國發會去審查，所以國發會就要基於指導的立場，看看花蓮、臺東怎麼樣能夠均衡，對原住民族的部分能夠更為加強，尤其是針對各鄉鎮，你們有提供各部會提出計畫的機會，那更是一個可以去強化的地方，所以請國發會同仁能夠加強檢視這個部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
另外，有關無自來水地區的延管工程，這是本席在上一屆會期，因應0918地震特別協調經濟部，因為無自來水計畫的經費不足，所以就請他們提報到國發會，國發會在審查之後送到行政院也核定了，這是第一次由花東基金來支應及協助無自來水的計畫。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們支應了3億。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：針對這個部分，當時的經費配置是花東基金補助七千一百多萬，然後無自來水計畫是編列七千四百多萬，總共1億4,510萬，這是兩年的計畫，這個兩年計畫一直執行到今年。新的計畫就是從明年開始的無自來水地區供水改善計畫第五期，也已經在國發會審查之後報行政院，在11月18號也核定了。我之所以要把它提出來，也是要去檢視，因為現在是由花東基金投入去協助，針對這樣的協助，我們要去檢視，因為之前核定的時候是急著需要，所以沒有去檢視，但是現在核定了，我們也可以去檢視，檢視什麼呢？第一個就是無自來水地區供水改善計畫明年開始第五期，那過去四期在花蓮、臺東是多少經費？我們就講第三期好了，因為第四期有花東基金投入，所以我們就看第三期，第三期整個花東是多少經費的比例？在整個第三期裡面，花東的經費占多少比例？是多少錢？我們就要去計算第五期，這個花東基金3億應該要占多少的比例？我所謂多少的比例是這樣，我是擔心、我是不希望發生，但是我們要去協助、去督導，就是不要因為有花東基金就全部用花東基金投入在花東，我的意思是說，你還是要有原來第三期的那個比例，我們應該是針對那個成本，因為它有一個每戶成本的計算，多出來的部分由花東基金來投入。譬如說，每戶單位單價成本是100萬的話，超過的部分由花東基金投入，這樣才是有幫助，你們的同仁有了解我的意思嗎？這樣有了解？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：我們了解。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以這個部分是不是能夠瞭解第三期投入在花東的部分到底是多少經費、它所占的比例是多少，然後我們來去檢視第五期應該要怎麼做，這樣好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：好，我們跟經濟部要資料，然後做一個報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，因為這樣才能夠真正去加碼！花東基金原來的用意就是要去加碼，而不是說有了這個部分就減少其他的。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以這個部分要達到這樣的效益，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們看另外一個部分關於檔案管理局，也謝謝檔案管理局，過去為了原住民的檔案我也曾經去過檔案管理局查資料。我曾經跟行政院要這個公文，因為當初我當處長的時候親自去參加行政院政務委員會議，而且那時候請原民會的主任委員去參加，為了姓名條例、羅馬拼音，我只是舉案例，不必看得那麼仔細，我只是舉案例！像這樣的一個檔案，到底怎麼樣的不能提供、怎麼樣的才能夠提供？這個部分因為各部會的意見不太一致，有的說資料不公開、不能公開還是怎麼樣！像這個許歷農的老檔案都可以調的出來，所以這個部分怎麼樣的才能夠、怎麼樣的不行？關於一般函稿不是機密的，譬如說，我當副主委的時候到底我有沒有蓋章？類似像這樣要去查的時候，又說不行、不符合資訊公開法。所以這個部分是不是可以後續提供書面資料？還是口頭再跟我講好了，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：好，再跟委員報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭天財委員，主委請回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
下一位質詢請賴瑞隆委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
214 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-16 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
169 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-21 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310401_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政院歲入預算第5款第1項第2目暨國家發展委員會及所
屬單位預算部分；二、審查 114 年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主
管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310401_00003 |