| IVOD_ID |
15725 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15725 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-22-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-14T08:31:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-14T11:57:59+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:26:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d6d0b2a5b2cc6652c2042dc10dca826773be8d109af184be41304484951cb89f95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳政忠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月11日及14日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:02 - 11:57:59 |
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12335.77409375 |
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SPEAKER_13 |
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SPEAKER_13 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
306.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
307.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
這樣有聽到嗎?這樣聽得到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
340.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
343.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這樣有嗎?這樣聽到嗎?我就不要太近 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
486.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
486.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
一大樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1744.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1760.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告委員會現在繼續開會今天的議程是邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳政忠列席報告業務概況並備質詢首先我們介紹在場的委員我們看到萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1763.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1777.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在請國科會吳主委進行報告報告時間8分鐘我還沒有介紹官員我們先介紹國科會主任委員吳政忠吳主委林炳聰副主委陳怡莊副主委林廣宏主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1788.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1814.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
沈宏俊執行秘書彭麗春處長綜合規劃處還有我們自然科學及永續研究發展處羅孟帆處長工程技術研究發展處李志鵬處長生命科學研究發展處楊台鴻處長人文及社會科學研究發展處蘇碩斌處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1818.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1832.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
科教發展及國際合作處葉志成處長前瞻及應用科技處副處長蔡妙慈蔡副處長產學及原初業務處許真如處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1839.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1868.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還有我們秘書處黃玉清處長人事處呂士一處長政風處簡振坤處長主計處廖玉燕處長資訊處周子源處長法規會張益榮執行秘書還有我們研究誠信辦公室的副處長兼主任鄭瓊芬主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1869.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1898.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們竹科管理局王永壯局長中科管理局許茂欣局長南科管理局蘇政剛局長還有我們行政法人國家災害防救科技中心陳鴻宇主任國家太空中心吳宗信主任我們國家實驗研究院林法政院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1901.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1909.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
國家同步輻射研究中心徐嘉鴻主任好那我們接下來就請吳主委來進行報告報告時間8分鐘吳主委請 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1922.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1936.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席各位委員先進大家好感謝各位委員對台灣科技發展的重視很榮幸出席大院教育及文化委員會向新國會的各位委員就國科會業務進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1939.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1960.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
氣候變遷、人口結構與地緣政治造成的全球局勢急劇的變化翻轉社會及產業發展科技及國力成為世界共識臺灣以躍升並扮演科技重要的角色半導體、AI與淨零科技也成為攸關國家發展的戰略領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1963.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1989.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
面對全球政局及氣候變遷所帶來的挑戰國科會秉持以人為本的理念推動國家的數位及近年轉型引領科技發展協助我國邁向2035科技願景緊究近期重點成果與後續政策規劃說明如後首先以國家高度推展中長程科技佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1993.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1997.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
中長城科技部局行政院已於去年召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1998.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2023.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
科技顧問會議提出我國未來在半導體及AI與淨零科技等核心發展領域國科會以遇究科技發展趨勢整合跨部會超前部署未來10年科技發展重點於今年陸續啟動多項重大的跨部會計畫包括精創台灣方案將以國內科研與海外人陪雙軌並進擴大佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2027.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2045.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
同時集結相關部會產學能量公司協力促進各產業導入生成式人工智慧 並以人文思維出發強調AI倫理法制及人文社會面向讓全民皆能受益於AI科技果實 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2046.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2072.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外召開近鄰科技方案指導會提出近鄰科技方案優先投入科技項目引導臺灣逐步邁向2050的近鄰目標此外國科會也持續不懈推進前瞻科研在太空科技部分繼我國第一顆自製氣象衛星列風者成功升空後亦透過舉辦首屆臺灣太空 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2078.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2102.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國際聯會 聯結國內外產學研量能打造一站式的整合平台更將加碼投入研製低軌通訊衛星規劃國家發射場等建立完整太空產業鏈在量子科研部分於去年12月邀請美日法核等國內外頂尖產學研專家舉辦台灣量子科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2103.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2126.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
國際研討會其打造量子科技跨國合作平台促使臺灣成為量子科技發展的引導者之一另外為使科技結合人文關懷今年亦啟動高齡科技產業行動計畫兼顧中高齡者照護及產業發展需求攜手八大部會合作開創我國樂活銀髮世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2130.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2149.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第二自立科技國和助力臺灣外交突破過去三年多來我們成功簽署三個跨國的部會成績協議已經達成與美國德國法國等科技先驚的國家簽署科學與技術的合作協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2151.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2175.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
並依照我國科技發展重點推動與其他重要國家簽署協議提升臺灣科學研究及科技產業在國際上的重要性及影響力其中近期簽署臺法科技合作協議未來將聚焦六大重點科技領域全面展開科研合作是臺法科研合作的新里程碑 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2176.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2202.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
並預計於今年5月在臺灣舉行首屆臺法科學研究會議進行科技政策對話及研討科研發展重點此外去年也與菲律賓共同舉辦臺菲部長級科技會議宣布啟動多項的合作計劃建立雙方科研領域的高階人才鏈結管道同時與澳洲政府就臺澳雙邊科研合作議題進行會談 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2207.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2223.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第3激勵科研人才穩固基礎科研體系基礎科學是國家長期科技實力產業升級與社會創新發展的泉源國會長期支持基礎研究113年度以一 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2226.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2253.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
學研界實際需求穩定編列基礎研究預算並適度的成長優秀人才是推升國家科技產業與社會向前邁進的關鍵因素今年國科會規劃精進激勵優秀研究人員助攻博士科研及營造友善科研環境等措施透過調升計畫主持費及專任助理薪資加碼主要科研獎項獎金等方式鞏固優秀人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2255.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2284.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
並針對博士科研人才培育擴大提供獎學金赴國外研究博士後待遇等有感的激勵措施吸引更多人才投入科研同時國科會也不忘下一代的人才雜耕藉由產官學研協力導入跨域參與擴大開放科普活動場域等策略增加民眾對科學的觸及率並啟發高中小學生等科研的探索精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2285.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2301.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
最後,助力國際園區標竿引領產業邁向全球﹐為了活化新創生態圈﹐引導創業精銳走入世界舞臺﹐TTA Taiwan Tech Arena率隊赴美參加CES |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2302.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2316.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
自107年到現在隨團參展的新創人數已有3倍成長已接近100家具體顯示國科會多年來致力新創發展深厚產學新創的認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2318.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2342.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
國科會在力推學研新創之餘．我們的科學園區．也以發揮產業群聚的積極效應．並佈局下世代產業發展所需的用地．各項核定園區的新設及擴建計畫等公共工程．以陸續動土平科加科實驗中學．也預計在今年的8月開始招生竹科XGD及 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2344.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2360.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
新竹生育園區第三生技大樓也規劃在今年落成使用科學園區將延續精緻多元 優生活節能永續的方向 扶植高質化新興科技 帶動產業的升級創造就業機會成為臺灣和世界經濟成長的重要力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2366.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2395.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
台灣的科技研發及產業實力深受全球矚目國科會將持續完善以人為本的科技體系橫頻內化產業創新深化社會包容及強化環境永續以國家長期戰略為考量省度國內外經濟、自然環境及地緣政治等多方情勢破壞具長遠競爭力的科技政策為台灣打造下世代的護國群山 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2395.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2401.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
以上報告懇請委員鼎力支持並敬祝各位身體健康萬事如意謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2405.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2432.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好 我們謝謝吳主委的口頭報告那現在進行詢答每位出席委員諮詢8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員諮詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間上午10時30分委員如果臨時提案也請上午10時30分前提出並與本會委員范雲委員諮詢後 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2433.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2444.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
及進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場原例不予處理好我們首先請發言登記第一位萬美玲委員質詢好謝謝召委我們有請吳政忠主委請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2461.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2490.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
王委員長好主委長我想主委您從201616年從蔡英文總統上任之後那你就擔任了行政院的科技政委那接著呢您又這個擔任了科技部的部長也很長一段時間然後我們新的科會上來之後您又擔任首任的這個主任委員可以說是在科技這個部分扮演非常重要的一個角色也是有很多都是延續性的這個政策那最近耳聞好像賴準總統已經有徵詢過你願不願意續任是有這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2491.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2492.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
沒有,完全沒有沒有應該不會那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2506.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2507.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以你就是勢必會離開這個位置了? |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2533.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2550.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那這樣子是蠻可惜的我想應該這個國科會的同仁也會很捨不得你那說實話表現真的還不錯但是我們還是要在520之前即便您已經決定要離開這個位置了但是我們坐一天和尚喬一天鐘何況我相信您也是兢兢業業的在做所以我們今天來討論一下我們科學園區那本席看到我們科學園區的整體的營業額從2015年開始你看一下這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2557.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2564.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
每年8年的營業額都是攀升的但是在去年我們看到整個營收3兆9億4390億3兆9439億然後比這個2022看起來4兆2700億衰退的整整有7.56%其實蠻多的那這個原因是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2577.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2604.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那個事實上我們在看那個經濟的成長事實上是看3年5年的那個趨勢所以那個趨勢是往上但是因為2022剛好在2021的時候大概因為COVID然後去預期說未來會需要很多的半導體晶片事實上半導體扮演一個蠻大的waiting所以我想我們對於這個數字我不是那麼的擔心因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2606.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2619.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
他在往上的過程會有稍微的拉回 這個是正常的好 所以您是有信心的嗎 是的好 那但是我們來看因為行政院其實已經算拍板定案了大概4月份或者4月以後其實都會漲電價那之前其實我們在這個2022、2023針對用電大戶其實我們都有調漲過這個電價了但是如果這一次4月份再漲而且傳出恐怕要漲25%非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2633.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2658.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
現在我們看到營收下滑,雖然你認為他是這個趨勢,要看趨勢,但本期看到是說那有沒有可能從今年開始這個趨勢是整個往下,因為您是看過去累積到今年嘛,那店家又要漲,那這會不會雪上加霜?那個好,事實上大家如果看這個,這個是yes and no,就是說我們這個台灣的半導體扮演蠻大的角色,那知道那個waiting蠻大的時候,半導體的獲利率 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2660.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2682.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
是非常高的所以電費在他的這個比例裡面事實上沒有佔那麼大你的意思是說半導體產業不在乎漲電價也就是說他會去衡量但是我想經濟部在他們那個審議委員會在訂電價的時候也會考慮到各個不同的這個stakeholder他的一些忍受度那我想這個會他們會來全盤考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2684.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2710.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我想經濟部在這個考量的時候您這裡的意見也扮演很重要的角色那我其實本席不認為說這個半導體因為過去獲利各方面那就會不在乎漲電價我覺得這對他們來說還是非常因為用電量很大所以我希望經濟部在考量漲電價針對用電大戶的時候您這裡也可以提供必要的意見那接下來我再跟您討論關於一個很大的計畫叫做桃竹苗大矽谷推動方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2710.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2720.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
在去年選前的時候12月賴清澤準統統推出了桃竹苗大矽谷計畫他說是要擴大科學園區的版圖等等甚至於說這個方案預期會帶來產值6兆增加14萬就業人口本席的選區就在桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2728.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2746.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以我們也引領期盼到底這個計劃對桃園到時候帶來什麼樣正面的一個幫助不過據本席了解這一個計劃整個主責的單位是國發會但是整個計劃的核心我想這個國科會扮演很重要的角色那主委這個計劃您個人有沒有參與團隊參與度到什麼地方能不能簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2750.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2752.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那到底什麼叫大矽谷計畫呢?大矽谷就是我們桃竹苗 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2775.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2801.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
內容是什麼呢?要做什麼呢?那個要問國發會所以您也不知道我大概知道但是也就是說基本上從我們的這個新竹這邊往南往北的擴張那大溪谷事實上主委我想這邊我打斷您一下我覺得其實您真的很接地氣你知道嗎因為您的看法跟本席跟桃園市民或者這個新竹苗栗的市民大家看法都一樣因為我們也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2801.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2805.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就聽到一個沸沸揚揚的大計畫然後呢高達這個預算兩百億我們就聽到一個名稱非常這個讓人家驚豔的名稱的一個計畫然後讓人家覺得非常驚訝的一筆預算然後內容是什麼真的都不知道那但是雖然說主責單位是國發會但我們知道啊詳細的計畫的核心其實國科會也是扮演很重要的角色啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2824.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2828.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
現在我們都還不知道這個計劃內容是什麼其實本席非常的擔憂為什麼前面有個例子嘛端來一個大餅這麼大然後烤得香香的大餅叫做台積電要來桃園了結果呢一場空現在再來一個桃竹廟大細股計劃那是不是每四年到選舉到的時候就要餵我們桃園吃一塊大餅但是看得見吃不到所以我覺得這樣是不行的所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2848.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2875.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
當然這個主委是即將520就要離開了那我希望在把握最後的這個時間點針對啊既然已經提出來的大矽谷計畫能不能有更詳盡的一個內容那不管是國科會這邊要負責的或者是主責是國發會只要跟您這裡有相關的能不能會後提供一個至少有一個內容讓我們來了解可以嗎這個針對科學園區這邊以後的一些想法我想我們會來提供好多久可以提供到本席辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2879.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2899.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
不要告訴我520以前好嗎?那個一個月了一個月好那就麻煩喔那接下來再請教一下這個金創計畫這本席之前好像有關心過喔那這個計畫是一個10年計畫預計要投入3000億的經費喔那是說我們希望能夠在今年在這個中東歐國家設置第一個海外基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2901.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2921.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
海外基地的功能非常多,希望吸引國際學生來台就讀,產業界人士來台發展,做全球IC人才的佈局等等,利益非常良善。我看到現在我們國科會駐外的科技組在中東歐的國家,當然是有德國、捷克跟立陶宛這三個國家,還有其他的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2922.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2939.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
法國也有在歐洲一共有一個地點那這個計畫現在有沒有鎖定要先以哪一個國家來作為我們的一個開始那當然我會這樣問也是我想不管是本席是我們這個捷克中華民國捷克跟我們這個國會友好聯盟會的會長那過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2942.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2967.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我想科技部跟捷克之間也有很多很好的互動所以本席也就在想說其實我們是不是如果能夠以捷克為第一個開始的話這個計畫能夠更順利一些那這個主委可不可以回答一下那個萬委員提到這個金創的確是臺灣未來10年蠻重要的一個計畫有時候從科技引領到未來深層式人工智慧包括IC Design |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2967.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2985.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那我想捷克是一個蠻這個蠻蠻這個符合我們的想法的一個國家但是應該是近期之內我們會來確定是在哪一個城市那個跟委員報告那個不是在哪一個國家而已而是他在那個city |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2986.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2991.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們也希望這個能夠盡快開始因為每一個計畫喊出來以後執行落實才是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3005.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3022.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
最後我想諸位也知道本席對於女性科技人才的支持那向來不遺餘力我們看到其實國科會有一個案子叫做鼓勵女性從事科學及技術研究的專案執行計劃那這個成果我們可以看到從110年開始我們看一下這個表列這個執行率是110年執行率103%111年115112年105可以說執行率算相當的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3034.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3035.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主委認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3037.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3057.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
應該是要鼓勵 謝謝委員支持女力的增強事實上這個也就是說鼓勵女性她如果因為生育或whatever計畫停了幾年以後我們給她一個窗口當然 所以這個執行率主任滿意嗎?103% 115% 105%就相當棒嘛對不對滿意嗎?還想要再增加到110 120% |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3066.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3070.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
主委,我們看下一張表格。但是呢,我們執行率這麼高,這代表著大家都需要,大家都願意來做一個申請。可是我們看到110年、110年、112年,我們整個核定率三成不到。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3088.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3088.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
OK! |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3112.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3136.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以如果說這個需求量是很大的你就不應該核定數到這麼低我不相信他們送來的這個計畫會差到你覺得說核定率沒有辦法再繼續給他們那是不是預算太低所以你沒有辦法去做所以這一點本席覺得真的啦我們有很多的錢我們看到養蚊子館的這個那個有很多錢其實是有浪費的但在這一塊我們竟然鼓勵女性來從事科學跟技術研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3137.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3161.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那是不是我們的預算上面要重新去做考量在執行上面還有核定上面我們要不要新的思維那個謝謝委員這個事實上這畫面如果增加我是贊成的啦我回去再來看看到底是什麼樣的問題那預算我想應該是那核定率為什麼這麼低來我處長來我們都鼓勵他你核定率這麼低20幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3163.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3178.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為這個專案的預算目前每年是編列9000萬那是因為預算是一個考量所以核電力的原因就是因為預算不足嘛你也不能核太多嘛對嗎了解這個這樣不對啦這樣本末倒置好不好主委我們盡量來做那那個增加我是贊成 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3179.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3180.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
謝謝萬美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3208.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3210.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們再來請洪孟凱委員質詢主席謝謝麻煩請吳主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3228.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3255.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
吳委員長主委延續剛剛萬委員在請教的就是說到目前為止賴清德總統當選人也沒有跟您聊過有沒有意願再繼續為國家服務那個沒有聊過沒有聊過是好那大家也講了因為之前我們所謂的數位發展部在三讀的時候部長人選有選定唐鳳郭耀煌跟吳政忠也就你本人那 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3256.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3282.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
數位發展部目前大家看起來好像對於唐鳳部長現在不管是藍營委員綠營委員甚至民眾也都覺得說他真的是表現不如預期國外人大家都期待是數位發展部來是當作是數位的領頭羊當作是科技領頭羊但目前看起來沒有那您覺得有沒有機會你會有接下數位發展部部長的可能性這個機會是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3282.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3310.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
沒有即便是賴清德總統當選人詢問你你也不會答應接受是的你就是想要回學校不是回學校回到社會當頭家所以你就是蓄意已決是不是沒有想說要再繼續為國家服務在這個民間也可以為台灣來服務所以這樣看起來部長主委這個我們也希望你不要只是數饅頭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3312.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3339.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
到520前那這樣就不要是數饅頭的心態不要是代退老兵的心態那本席就來請教你現在昨天你們有看辦一個這個AI生成無限可能的這個產業AI產業高峰論壇那也有講到是說未來百工百業引進生成式的AI帶動產業的創新那你這邊也有提到是說這個台灣有半導體的這個能量跟生成式AI可能未來這是台灣的機會對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3341.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3358.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
但是有人說AI對於電力的需求其實是非常重的甚至馬斯克他也講說恐怕會讓全球從缺晶片變成是缺電請教到目前為止我們台灣還講說下個月有可能電費又要調漲您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3363.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3386.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
生成式AI在耗電是一個事實沒錯但是不同國家不同的產業不同的這個先後的次序臺灣是在做它的一些server包括晶片我們有沒有去評估過之後如果說臺灣要發展生成式AI的這樣的一個方向領域我們預計用電會增加多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3386.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3409.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我跟委員報告事實上這個用電的考量也在那個深層式AI的一些業者他們的考量那未來他的用一定是上到我們的AGE就是AGE端比如說你的筆電就可以用你不會全部都跑到這個超級電腦去弄那個深層式人工智慧所以那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3410.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3415.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
應該是大幅下降但是我們現在還是看到的是這深層是AI畢竟大家講是說它的用電還是往上增嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3435.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3460.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
還有就是我們科學園區的部分你也提到是說這個審議會應該會通盤檢討考量但是到目前為止大家也都說不準說到底下個月會漲幅多少的用電那如果說用電成本上升但是又持續有這種缺電的疑慮台灣的能源配比現在還是讓國人沒有辦法放心的話那我們怎麼樣有辦法樂觀的看待就是說我們今年的不管是科學園區的景氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3462.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3486.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們當然是謹慎以對密切注意但是就是說在這一波深層式AI的起身階段臺灣的半導體的製造因為剛好在後端的製造跟封裝測試這一邊應該是還可以幾年的光景那在這幾年當中我們應該是要有一些對策是沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3488.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3498.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
主委我想請教那現在有傳出說工業用電可能會漲幅有到15%到20%那你兩天前你也接受媒體訪問是說你相對來講還是覺得說樂觀沒有問題那請教有沒有在這一段時間裡面跟經濟部來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3506.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3526.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
詢問討論甚至幫科學人去來請命那個如果說一次要漲15%到20%你覺得這樣子廠商業者能夠接受嗎或說吃得消嗎那個在這個經濟部那邊的審議委員會事實上我們也不會去直接去跟審議委員會去做一些要求是沒有辦法反映但是跟部長這邊應該是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3529.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3556.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
應該是有溝通什麼意思我們科學園區這邊工會跟經濟部這邊也會有但是我現在講的是說主委你身為這個我們這個國科會的大家長你有沒有幫大家來去做請命或說了解還是說去計算是說因為之前你也講過嘛今年的科學園區景氣表是樂觀那但是現在傳出說如果說漲了電價15%到20%然後又有可能有缺電跳電的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3557.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3587.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
但難道你不認為是說你應該主動負起這個責任來去做溝通嗎應該是或說讓至少讓經濟部那邊也知道是說現在這個產業的一個情況我們那個科學園區的工會跟我們裡面的公司事實上跟我們科學園區管理局都有密切溝通的管道如果這個有問題一定會反映來不是來啦主委我現在在請教你重點在於是你本人要不要去做這件事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3589.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3617.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員補充說明一下因為其實整個電的穩定供應關係廠商的一個營運那其實整個國際能源價格事實上是有些在做我現在沒有需要你正面宣導我現在講的是說剛剛我們才詢問嘛就是當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛不要有帶退老兵的心態那如果說你認為說這件事情今年的景氣可以樂觀那是不是應該也要把大家的意見彙整之後然後主動來跟還是你跟經濟部部長很不熟是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3621.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3628.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
很熟很熟所以要不要跟他溝通一下可以啊 這沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3630.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3652.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
各位我再來請教一下我們現在在討論剛剛有討論AI的部分那有去年其實7月的時候這個鄭文燦副院長就已經有講是說我們台灣有可能在9月會推出AI基本法人工智慧基本法但之後又講說確定難產所以說我們先來做這個深層式AI的參考指引對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3654.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3676.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
本期昨天有拿到我們這個參考指引的部分我先請教我們現在相對來講我們的這個政府機關有沒有哪一個機關現在有從使用深層式AI來做這個執行業務或是提供服務的輔具工具事實上除了就我們了解我們各部會有沒有哪一個部會現在用深層式AI是用得比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3677.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3688.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
目前應該是我這邊的這個資料是沒有沒有所以各機關部會都還沒有使用生成式AI因為他們沒有跟我報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3690.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3714.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有可能有那我們國科會呢我們有沒有利用深層式AI來做一些資訊的比如說會診還是執行業務那個我跟這個委員報告事實上深層式AI跟AI其實AI我們本來就有在用也就是說我們在一些計畫的proposal的盤點本來就有用AI那深層式AI比較大的去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3715.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3717.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我現在在請教的就是說我們比如說國科會有沒有做生產CI執行業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3734.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3756.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
為什麼會這樣請教因為你的指引裡面有提到其中一點因各機關使用生成式AI做執行業務或是提供服務輔助工具時應該適當揭露 對不對那本席就想請教啊到目前為止沒有看到任何一個下面的這個資訊有講是說我這本文件是用生成式AI處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3757.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3773.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
所以換言之現在到底大家使用的狀況怎麼樣事實上跟委員報告現在那個我們一個台德就是Trustworth AI Dialog Engine是國科會在做也是幫各個部會各行各業做一個Basic 念繁體中文的對話引擎 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3775.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3803.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個是以後要用本身我們自己做的我知道你現在講的是4月有可能會上市的嘛對不對不是上市是公開給對4月有可能公開給民眾來使用嘛不是民眾是不是而是因為那拿去齁各個公司還要去加他的槌子的應用才會比較細緻啦因為那個open AI check GPT那個是主委我們在同一個平行時空對話一下好不好嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3803.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3814.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
本席剛剛我也認為啦生成式AI現在是一個趨勢那也認為是說其實如果說你善用這個工具的話會非常方便好用譬如說本席剛剛在 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3816.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3831.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我打入人工智慧基本法的好處跟缺點不到10秒鐘他就整理出來了他說好處可以保障使用者的權益促進創新發展規範產業標準跟防止濫用風險但缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3835.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3859.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
創新會受限法律會落後還有監管困難以及權責不對等好那我現在請教我們現在的這個趨勢跟方向也是人工智慧基本法應該要出來嗎是的所以520之前有沒有可能出來在你卸任之前為台灣為我們政府不可能那什麼時候會有這樣的一個計畫立法計畫我們原先預期在年底之前今年年底今年年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3860.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3889.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
但那時候你已經不在啦那我們的執政是延續的應該會延續但是我的意思是說那今年年底怎麼保證可以出來你現在的這個立法的方向程序步驟我現在的這個決心是所以你可以現在講出來就是也交代我們同仁今年年底人工智慧基本法草案會出爐送到立院我們可以一起來審理是不是因為本席為什麼會那麼關心就是因為本席也會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3889.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3890.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3916.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3944.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
各位委員報告歐盟那邊是昨天他已經在通過議會嘛歐洲跟美國跟日本英國是不一樣的系統臺灣剛好在中間就是一個是創新另外一個是那我們臺灣以現在的方向會比較是屬於往歐盟這邊來指引還是往美國應該 somewhere between什麼意思要拉的因為我們要保障國家的利益對 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3946.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3971.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
說實在話這是立法院中華民國國會殿堂不是賣弄學術的學術的地方本席從剛開始這個質詢到現在我都是準備那麼多充分的資料就希望可以跟你好好的溝通跟好好的用淺顯易懂的方式讓國人更了解我們現在國科會在做什麼不是有知識分子傲慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3972.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3984.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以本席只想最後請教你剛剛講歐盟是一個方向美國是一個方向我們的版本會比較屬於哪一個方向應該比較靠近美國日本跟英國這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3985.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3987.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好,所以就是在今年年底前會有我們政院版本出來是的好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4017.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4044.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好謝謝紅夢凱委員吳主委請回好我們現在請郭育晴委員質詢邀請主委先講一下我人真好欸我本來應該是排第7個我已經是第二次跟羅廷瑋換順序然後因為他要去開記者會可能就是講一下執政黨那個BNT的事情然後我跟他換順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4045.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4070.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
早安早安主委早我想問一下就是主委其實剛剛在您的報告當中我們有看到就是希望在我們的科技人才這個部分其實不要斷層我們要向下扎根那不管是大學也好高中也好國中也好或者是小學也好那我想在今年其實屏東它有一所就是算是第一所這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4072.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4099.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
國立評科實驗高級中等學校那他在今年2月他會開始招生然後8月可能就要開始正式的這個教學了但是因為我們知道他其實跟原本他現在其實可能預計用國小的部分的校舍還是用林國小那變成林國小他們也確定可能就是要停收因為可能少子化的關係那這個部分我不曉得主委您知道這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4100.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4121.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
蘇局長有跟我報告事實上他原來學生應該新的學校會把他納進來因為之前他們有舉辦公聽會所以其實也有很多的家長也希望說因為他們的等於說他們的聲援其實是很重疊的地區也是很重疊的那就是他們也希望說將來可能二年級到六年級 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4124.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4124.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是是是,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4141.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4159.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我很高興有聽到這個聲音啦因為目前是還沒有看到最新的一個狀況那如果就是主委這邊其實我們也協同我們自己本國科會可能跟屏東縣的這個教育處他們來做一個銜接是沒問題我們完全接收原來的學生是是是好那先替這79個小孩謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4163.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4178.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
接下來其實我想要問的就是我們的泰特其實剛剛有特別提到其實他非常不容易應該這麼講因為其實有CHAT GPT就是台版的CHAT GPT支撐所以其實我們大概知道他預計在2024年4月底會確定結案對不對應該是這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4185.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4208.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
另外我們知道整個研發團隊在2023年就是去年的6月其實已經有第一階段的一個成果的展現了那接著下來可能在去年的9月跟10月其實也開放所有的應該是說我們的中央跟地方政府來使用他們的7B的移域功能那目前他們使用的狀況大概是如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4210.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4237.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我順便藉這個機會跟委員報告事實上去年年初大家全世界被那個checkGPT嚇了一跳那我們在台灣也是覺得說如果沒有繁體中文版這個以後會沒完沒了所以我們去年3月就開始一年的計畫很緊急的那也剛好就是台灣有一些教授團隊事實上跟他的一些學生我們組出來以後就用那個Meta的那個Lama |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4238.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4239.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4263.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4264.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
但是目前我們這個台德已經可以7B的740億參數的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4280.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4295.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
已經可以幫你翻譯中方英文中那還有一些就是可以把你的會議的摘要弄出來但是你要問他所有任何的問題他答案還不一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4296.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4299.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以現在其實在就是不管是中央或者是地方那還有我們包含企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4313.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4314.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
政府這邊也有? |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4333.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4358.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個計劃會到今年的4月4月4月之後會再繼續再做這方面的一個延伸嗎因為全世界在這個深層式AI這邊真的是剛開始那去年我們就緊急把它啟動以後那事實上我最近也在決定說再延一年然後再接到114年的4年的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4359.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4385.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那有機會可以讓一般的民眾或者是讓民間甚至於學校可以用得到嗎?那個就是說因為這個是像美國那個都是私人的那你要讓民間的時候你背後必須要有一個很大的電腦在那邊但是我們把訓練完以後我其實早上有講就把弄到一些資料弄到我們以後PC可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4386.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4387.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
所以大概預期大概要多久之後其實可以比較更普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4404.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4428.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
應該是其實我們目前有一個7B就70億的參數是它所有的訓練資料都是有經過比如公家的資料沒有那個制裁權的問題的那13B有一些資料就是130億的參數那個有一些資料我們還在取得認證13B那個就跟現在CHAT GPT的3.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4430.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4431.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
委員會主任委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4451.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4467.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們也希望趕快能夠盡快讓大家可以看到這方面的成果再來因為其實最近其實大家都很關心因為我們台海的這個亞太的這個地區其實說真的台海的安全其實還是大家最關切的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4469.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4474.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我不曉得主委這邊知不知道其實在惡霧戰爭的時候其實為什麼他們在大量的所有的這個應該是說他們的設施或者他們的建設被摧毀的時候其實他們還能夠繼續保持的跟外界的一個通訊跟聯絡那這個部分其實還蠻重要的就是所謂的低軌的衛星那我們其實也在發展這個部分的一個應該算是科技對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4495.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4513.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
當然其實它是除了防災緊急的一個通訊的部分其實是佔有非常重要的地位那一旦有任何的狀況或危險其實我們也樂見我們自己本身有所謂的自製的低軌的衛星但是其實這個低軌的衛星其實我們知道它其實要發射它需要有基地台 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4515.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4536.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們大家都知道越靠所謂的赤道就越難只能在東半部其實整個篩選下來就只剩下花東跟屏東這三個地區但是這三個地區其實又跟我們的當地的可能跟原住民他們的一些應該是說他們的基本法其實是你要舉辦公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4538.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4540.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
謝謝委員的提醒的確這個第一軌通訊衛星或者是中軌高軌都是對台灣蠻重要因為台灣是海島國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4558.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4586.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們有在布局就是太空中心在這個通訊衛星這邊我們有自己投入那另外那個也可以帶動台灣的電子產業往太空的產業這邊來走那另外一個就是發射場地的確委員說的沒錯在東部然後比較靠近赤道那個射上去以後會比較省力那基本上又考慮到這個重疊海域的話事實上真正可以有的就是屏東跟台東 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4587.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4598.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們看到一個時間表是2026但是我剛剛有說如果要舉辦公聽會或者是說我們真的要符合因為這個需要一段很長的溝通的一個時間那2026真的來得及嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4602.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4622.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們盡量但是前面的溝通還是要做啦事實上我們那個那個發射場地的選址的委員會我們剛好在應該2月已經開過也就是說相關的條件先確定以後再來對外公告那應該是在年底之前我們希望可以把這個場址確定下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4623.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4645.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以目前也持續都在做這方面的一個溝通對那跟原基法的第21條跟當地溝通都有在做這個是的確蠻重要的對因為其實這個對我們來講其實不管是國防或者在我們的科技的一個產業的部分其實我們不希望看到就是像去年其實我們的這個台馬的電纜斷電的這樣子的一個狀況就感覺很像我們離島變成一個孤島了 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4649.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4672.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以這個帝國衛星我想這勢必勢在可行我們也樂見趕快我跟委員報告就是那個衛星發射上去一剛開始可能會委託其他國家的發射因為我們那個基地包括我們火箭自己做目前的規劃是到2030可以自己做自己的火箭跟然後在我們的場地發射 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4673.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4688.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
但是之前我們可以委託其他國家來幫忙好 那我們就持續努力 拭目以待謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝 謝謝郭玉琴委員好 我們再來請吳佩儀委員質詢好 有請國會主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4703.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4725.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
委員長主委好很高興在你們的業務報告裡面我們有看到我們針對科研的女性人才流失的問題國科會這幾年都有一些相關的措施來進行補救那剛剛在前面委員的諮詢我也有聽到我們針對這個女性的科研人才當她因為生育的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4726.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4746.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
中間必須要中立這個研究的生涯讓他如何能夠回來有一個暖身的期間能夠重回我們科研的行列我們也有一個女性科研人才補助的計畫那我想要先請教主委在你們報告裡面有提到我們女性科研人才流失 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4747.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4766.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個流失目前的情況是如何因為流失意思應該是說我們是不是現在女性科研人才的數量甚至比前幾年數量來的少那是目前的現象是怎麼樣有沒有相關的數字以及是什麼樣的原因造成這樣的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4767.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4783.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
應該不是說最近幾年流失因為流失應該是一個長久的狀態那我們4年前用這個計畫把它一些再找回來那個應該是我們找的力道事實上我們是可以持續加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4784.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4803.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們現在一個國家總體的統計我們的博士的人數這個兩性的男性跟女性的人數的統計女性的博士人才我們最高的時候99年曾經是近五成那我們現在是來到了兩成也就是我們流失的幅度是近三成 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4804.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4817.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
當中當然有很多是因為女性正好是我們這一個科學人才的養成我想主委一定非常的清楚養成不易需要一個很長的時間那正好就到30 40歲這個年紀在生理的條件之下正好也有可能遇到必須要生產的時間尤其我們的科學 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4826.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4827.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我非常支持我們國科會有這些相關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4842.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4863.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我看了我們這幾年的來申請跟合訂的人數事實上剛剛在前面的質詢裡面也有討論到主委你也認為我們每一年補助女性從事科學及技術研究專案的這個計畫我們能夠來合訂的人數也就是我們可以來支持她重回科研行列這個人數你也認為可以再增加是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4864.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4891.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
應該可以這個如果是有的話我們應該是既然已經有下滑那我們這幾年的努力第一階段第二階段我想我們可以來精進是就以我們這幾年陸續來申請的案件數來說至少就我們所知就至少每年有近500位的女性科研人才他們已經是經過長時間培訓的這些人才他們是希望可以回到研究的行列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4892.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4912.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那這個來申請的件數只是至少我相信潛在數量一定有更多所以我很肯定主委剛剛也認為應該要增加那我們現在應該還在編列預算的時間明年的預算也尚未核定所以我們能不能夠在今年提出來的預算就來增加這個計畫未來我們能夠支持的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4913.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4921.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們來這個調整一下應該這個應該是可以我們希望明年的預算這個送進來省的時候我們就可以看到這個計畫的人數的增加接下來也是要跟主委討論的是仍然是性品除了我們要支持人才的研究他的這個生產條件以外我們整體環境的性品友善也是相當的重要去年在台灣各個領域都發生了me too的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4940.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4962.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
也因此促成了不管是政府部門還是民間的單位就自己單位內部的性平事件處理程序都進行了一些修改我們甚至去修訂了性平三法那我有注意到我們的政府部會文化部也就呢這個文化部過去的補助倘若這個補助的對象他有發生經過調查明確確實的性平事件的加害人假設他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4970.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4993.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
在文化部修改了它的要點就它過去曾經的補助來進行視情節的輕重來進行撤銷補助那我們國科會有沒有過相關的討論就是就我們國科會自己的性平事件的申訴及懲戒要點我們有沒有過相關的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4996.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5009.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
討論是有,但是那個案件我目前是還沒有接到這樣的懲罰。那我們有修一些規定,因為的確這個性品應該是蠻重要,我也蠻重視。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5011.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5040.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
主委我是認為我們應該你們可以去參考這個文化部他們針對這個要點裡面的修訂當然是強調一定是要經過調查已經是有我們出場說我們有參考文化部我們有在參考所以我們的這個性評的申訴及呈現要點目前已經修改了是我們在去年11月已經修改我們的作業規定就是計劃的主持人如果有違反性評那也是事情且慶祝我們會進行相關的懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5042.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5061.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我希望能夠來把資料提供給我們我認為這是非常的重要因為整體的性平環境也是支持科學人才能夠繼續的走下去很重要的一個基礎再來要跟主委關心的是也是國人非常關心的是我們有精創台灣方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5062.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5068.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個計劃是10年計劃我們預計要投入3000億的經費來執行其中呢我們有一個計劃是我們希望能夠透過我們的半導體的學院來進行海外的培訓中心的設立那目前呢有沒有已經已經有洽談中的或是已經預計可能會在哪邊來成立我們第一所的海外技術中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5088.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5114.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這個緣起當然就是因為台灣最近半導體全世界非常這個矚目那中東歐幾國包括德國法國我在前兩年去的時候他們相關部會的部長也都蠻期待那我們也是覺得說這個應該是台灣一個機會也就是說我們可以去佈局全球那趁這個台灣半導體非常強的時候那有一些歐洲有一些中小型國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5115.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5115.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
議員吳政忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5135.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5151.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5152.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5157.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
最近可能就會有第一案的這個出現是消息的出現那我們有沒有預計大約要成立幾個海外的培訓中心我們今年是一個到兩個今年一至兩個我想這個計畫會非常的重要所以我們也非常的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5172.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5188.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
接下來要跟主委關心的是我們除了高階的科研人才以外國科會針對科學知識科普往下扎根也是有相關的計畫也很支持其中我有注意到是我們跟台鐵有合作科普列車這個計畫我覺得非常的成功因為我們是邀請了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5193.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5193.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
已經差不多七八年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5211.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5224.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
那那個地點他是環繞台灣現在有30個車站那除了中小學學生以外還有這個企業也來一起參與所以我想這個是一個蠻這個弧度蠻大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5227.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5250.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那未來我想我知道很多這個委員都有希望說他那個站也要去我們盡量來讓更多的這個地方可以參與就是執行的成效大家都覺得很好大家也都很希望說這個列車可以走進更多的地方所以我們也很支持但也希望這個計畫有機會可以來擴增像我知道是我們在台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5250.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5254.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
有從台北車站出發然後有到板橋車站新北市板橋車站那這個當中呢其實就會經過我的選期萬華火車站我們也非常希望有一天這個科普列車有機會可以來開進萬華最後要跟主委關心的是國內也非常關心我們的太空中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5269.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5277.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
太空中心是蔡英文總統也非常的重視那去年底的時候我看到說我們針對國家太空科技發展的長程計畫三期去年小英總統曾經說過要來加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5285.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5310.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個預算要來加碼增加至超過400億那吳主委您去年底也說過所以呢要來進行對這個太空三級計畫進行修正以及優化其中就是要來加入我們的低軌通訊衛星目前我們針對這個預算的增加以及這個時間的延長有沒有已經有一個初步的版本了有沒有預計什麼時候要來拍板 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5312.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5334.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
會儘快,事實上我們太空三期是201819那時候訂的,那個時候還沒有低軌通訊衛星,台灣以前從來也沒有做過通訊衛星,那個增加預算應該通訊衛星是一個大宗,另外一個就是我們的火箭發射基地跟火箭的研發,以前也不能做,現在應該是可以來進行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5336.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5336.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
接下來請葉元池委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5376.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5376.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5384.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5403.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
業務委員早早各位一開始的時候我先有接受一個選民的陳情是一個臺大的博士生所以先就這個部分先看看我覺得有沒有補救的方法就是去年9月12號的時候當時國科會有開一個記者會公佈了國家科學及 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5404.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5421.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
技術委員會博士生研究獎學金的試辦方案這個方案就我了解是2018年就有了但當時是300個名額是透過學校來分配名額但去年9月我不知道為什麼去年9月是什麼背景因為去年剛好是選舉年 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5422.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5438.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
有增加名額嘛增加了有一個400個名額是讓學生自己去申請嘛對吧應該沒有錯吧然後一個月是一萬塊嘛然後是四年對不對一個月四萬塊啦然後四年嘛所以這個政策實際上蠻好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5439.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5451.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以很多博士生認為說這個對他們就學的時候無後顧之憂是非常期待可是這個辦法裡面有一個非常奇怪的地方就是9月12日開記者會然後隨即就讓他們來申請是在9月15日到10月16日這個月來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5459.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5465.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
只有一個月的時間來申請只有一個月的時間來申請那這裡面呢就衍生出幾個問題好幾個問題第一個問題呢112年9月15就去年9月15到10月16這段期間實際上很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5478.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5482.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5495.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5511.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
差不多3月3月的時候他12月28號才公佈簡章今年3月才開始受理所以你在這些學校都還沒有確定怎麼招生情況之下在前一年的9月而且只有一個月的時間讓他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5514.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5528.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
來申請這個獎學金其實這個時間上是蠻奇怪的不知道主委你為什麼當初會訂這個時間應該是因為當初就是我們原來有300名給各個學校我現在不是討論300名我現在討論是另外那400名 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5531.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5554.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
300名加300我們把它增加到600名因為400名是去針對國家的重點政策方向來去call這些學生不過當初的用意是希望說我們念完碩士以後他來考博士班的學生所以你要提早去讓這個已經畢業的學生來有意願來報考博士班 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5555.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5568.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
主委利益良善我們就聚焦在那400名因為本來的300名擴張到600名這部分我們就不討論我現在討論是新增的400名就是可以讓學生自己去申請這400名那這400名第一個我覺得時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5570.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5599.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
很奇怪因為他只有一個月時間受理而且很多考生在那時候他並不知道自己要讀博士班所以你的利益良善可是在執行上非常的遭受到大家的質疑第二個我先一次問完然後你們一次解釋第二個問題就是說現在有的考生他們在因為時間很短9月中到10月中這個時間可以申請他先去申請了很多是博士班一年級的在職學生去申請不知道主委知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5601.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5608.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
聽說有人來反映你知道為什麼會這樣嗎?因為博士班一年級的學生他們一開始以為說這個獎金他拿得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5609.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5631.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
學校老師跟他說你拿不到因為那是對未來的考生那他們就想說那我先取得資格我在9月的時候我先去申請我取得資格之後我今年我再想辦法隨便報考一個學校我取得了入學許可之後然後加上他9月多拿到那個資格他就可以來領這一個月4萬塊的獎學金那這會造成什麼問題呢這會造成的問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5634.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5662.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
他會佔名額嘛 對不對第一個他原本是博一的學生那這個名額就浪費了嘛第二個他跑去再考一次那對於其他考生也不公平嘛所以我的意思是說你們當時這個獎學金利益良善可是制度的設計會產生我剛剛講的弊端了第三個問題就是宣傳實在是很不夠因為我那個考生跟我那個博士班一年級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5662.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5687.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
他跟我澄清的時候我問他說你怎麼知道這個事他說學校老師講的學校老師只能針對在學的學生講可是其他的外面的考生根本不知道這個東西那我特別去上網查了一下是有看到你們有開記者會但是記者會就是幾個即時新聞導致於我後來我去問了很多大學的老師包括教碩士班的老師他們都不知道這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5688.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5704.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
換句話說你這個獎學金只有給那些巷子內的人申請嘛就是9月12號公佈9月15來申請有人知道或是消息比較靈通或國科會有配合的人他可以來申請其他所有一般大專院校碩士生都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5704.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5731.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我認為是這樣,因為我也不想要找主委的麻煩我們現在又亡羊補牢能不能就是說針對我覺得那個名額是不是可以開放給就是在學的就是博士班學生一起來申請否則的話我跟你講一個狀況真的你到時候到時候我們反正主委以後還會再來一定會產生一個狀況就是一堆現在博士班一年級的學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5732.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5753.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
為了要拿這個獎學金他又再去讀另外一個博士班的一年級一定會出現這個狀況你相不相信主任有聽說嘛對嘛但是不鼓勵這樣當然不鼓勵啊問題是因為你的制度的漏洞產生這個狀況嘛所以我認為說大家應該要亡羊補牢啦是不是可以針對我剛剛講的問題想一個解決的方法好不好來這個細節我想處長應該也有討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5758.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5786.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
包括有關委員您關心的問題我先簡單的說明第一個呢就是我們在辦這個獎學基金的甄選的時候我們有辦一系列的座談會也在座談會裡面得知從112年的10月開始就有學校開始進行推增因為要配合學校的作業時程所以我們會在9月的時候就開始來那個收監這是一個最主要的一個原因另外有關廣宣方面我們除了給學校行文之外我們也有辦一系列的座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5787.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5790.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
就不夠阿那你可不可以講一下你們辦的幾場總共辦幾場作案會 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5793.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5794.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我個人的建議是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5823.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5844.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
到時候一定會出現很多人現在申請到資格但是最後沒有來領或者是說他跑去取得另外一個博弈的身份然後造成現在的很多缺額狀況我覺得一定會出現我們把這動不起來我建議說是不是可以開放給博弈生讓他們來申請好不好那你可不可以給我一個報告好不好就是針對我剛剛講的問題那什麼時候可以給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5848.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5852.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
第二個接下來就是剛剛也有委員問到我個人也是蠻關心的就是那個太空三級計畫因為我記得這個計畫當初在 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5874.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5901.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
政府是敲鑼打鼓在宣布當時的行政院長蘇貞昌為了推廣自己的政績說他衝衝衝100天第一個計畫就是簽署太空計畫那現在這10年2019開始10年是有400億 對不對可是400億裡面我覺得最重要的就是國家發射廠的選址原來是250億現在變400億 對不對不是 增加400億增加400億 所以是650億所以大家很重視這件事情在編這麼多預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5902.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5925.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
可是我發現就是說它的進度比較緩慢因為去年我記得草野也是在教文委員會啦就是希望說國科會可以針對太空火箭國家火箭發射戰的選址有一個定案嘛去年的時候可是去年國科會跟太空中心好像就不同調太空中心一開始對外講說好像已經有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5926.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5944.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
有一個場址的選擇了可是國科會馬上就說沒這回事所以太空中心很怕啦你可以看我紅色圈起來的部分他說我們都是在國科會指導下啦還沒進行實質討論所以這個事情到底是國科會在負責還是太空中心在負責所以他說這個不是你們發的新聞稿嗎軍需在國科會指導下 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5952.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5964.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以這個是國科會在負責還是太空中心在負責這是你們自己太空中心發的信用稿欸不是不是那個吼因為太空中心是國科下面一個對嘛對嘛所以所以是太空中心在決定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5966.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5994.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
不是社科科會決定那我就問主委因為目前進度緩慢是因為你看在111年的8月已經有一個作業審查的會議要點了嘛對不對111年到現在也快一年半了嘛然後去年的時候立法院有要求你們說在去年底就應該要那個長子要先確定嘛對吧那個長子確定必須要有一些程序那現在預算上去年也有九千九千七百多萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5995.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6018.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那9700多萬是用在哪裡?因為長子選址的部分現在是算是好像沒有進展嘛那所以9700多萬是用在哪?其實一直都在進行當中因為包含如果要就是評估這些相關的一些指標都需要去做相關的這些跨部會的協商還有跟專家學者來進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6020.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6027.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這個是最後一點時間這個是你們二月的會議記錄嘛都沒有內容給我們的資料好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6029.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6056.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
很害怕一樣就全部都是寫得非常的簡單這為什麼不能夠因為這個預算這麼多今年編的兩億多然後立委跟你調資料然後你給這種說我們已經在選址了這有寫跟沒給一樣那個選址因為事實上以前大家都不喜歡這個發射場現在好像也蠻多地方在爭取哪些地方在爭取因為其實可以有的就屏東跟台東所以屏東跟台東現在在爭取對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6058.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6084.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
應該是有意願的那後來怎麼決定這兩個要選哪一個那這是有一些專業的考量就是說你要靠近赤道whatever然後你要場地旁邊的交通還有一些環境未來的擴張性都是我們考量的所以二月會議到底討論什麼我們就是把一些審查的條件我們外面的專家委員來確定要哪些是審查的條件程序各自 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6089.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6109.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
二月六日開會主要的目的是要把這個選址的程序法定程序定下來第二點是要挑這個選址需要怎樣的物理條件比如說交通地點要多偏遠或者是不是要靠太平洋種種這些條件有這些以後我們才依法一步一步才往下推 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6109.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6110.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我們再請張雅玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6140.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6140.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6149.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6174.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
主委您好,就是說因為其實國科會這幾年在做的事情都是在帶動整個台灣的產業競爭然後來做我們更多的產業的提升讓我們可以保持這個世界的競爭力那我在這邊非常的感謝那我其實我自己是非常關注國科會的一些相關研究那最主要的就是我自己的小孩是非常非常喜歡這個領域所以今天的問題呢我大概就問一下有關於核心技術還有CHECK、GBT以及我小孩非常關注的一個叫做兒少科普的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6175.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6202.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
還有這個太空中心的發展所以我們接下來先來講這個國家的關鍵技術就是說在去年的時候我們有公告22項國家的核心關鍵技術對那這個領域呢就是大概在涵蓋了這個國防農業半導體太空以及資通安全那接下來就是說我們在因為在台灣的IC產業其實製造技術是領先全球那我們在這個台灣的市佔率呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6203.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6226.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
也達到了599那14耐名以下的在全球的市佔率更是高達70%所以我是非常認同我們要去保護我們國家的核心競爭力那我也想請教就是說因為新聞有講今年3月或4月的時候還會有第二波這個核心關鍵技術的這個管制清單會出來所以我想要知道說大概在什麼時候會出來那這些相關的審議會已經召開了嗎那會含劃哪些領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6229.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6252.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是的那個我們去年12月5號公布以後我們說3個月會做滾動修正對沒錯那事實上部會他們已經盤查就是說針對我們公布的5個大領域事實上部會應該是沒有新的修正但是我們也在看看到他有那個技術以後他還要去找一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6253.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6254.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
執行計劃及執行人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6264.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6285.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
目前是沒有新的提出來那我們有一個top-down的是說我們有在看有一些技術也必須要再進來比如說一些生醫生技的一些技術對我了解那我想要知道說這個進度還是在因為3月已經過了一半嘛所以大概是在4月嗎4月會提供給大家讓大家知道有哪些是關鍵核心技術嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6286.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6300.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們那個技術出來以後我們還有一個核心關鍵技術的辦公室要再去看跟外面的一些相對應的所以聽起來是時程會再延後嗎沒有3月沒有延後 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6301.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6316.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
公佈的時間是什麼時候?跟我原報告一下第一批的部分剛剛我們主委有提到當時在講說三個月要滾動檢討求證是針對這22項會公佈了之後再去整體又各界去溝通看有沒有需要再進一步去做滾動檢討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6319.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6323.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
目前沒有要去做調整的部分那時候講3個月指的是這件事情那第二波的部分因為依照規定我們每年至少要開一次國家選議會所以現在整體各部會就是在持續的盤點看看還有哪些需要的技術在納進來大概就跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6337.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6364.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
好那這個部分的話我想我們可能也是要加速啦因為畢竟是核心關鍵技術啦那再來就是說那個領域如果有些新增的話可能也再提供給我們辦公室好不好好那再來第二個部分是想要講這個兒少科普的問題就是說其實因為STEM這個領域其實是未來的世代了是非常重要的一件事情但是我們其實這個領域男性是比較多的女性是比較少的孔子張表我們可以看到大概只有四分之一的女性是在這個領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6366.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6390.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們其實有辦了很多的兒少科普活動但是我看到就是我們的人數像以國際女科學節科學日它的人數是越來越少那我想要先請教第一個問題是說我們的參與人次的計算評估標準110年是用觸及11年跟112年都是用觀看次數那這個衡量標準是不一樣的所以事後的review其實是很難去了解到底影響性是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6391.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6405.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以這個部分是不是未來可以用同一個評估基礎讓我們比較了解知道說這個真實的狀況是什麼我倒沒有注意到這個有改變我們看處長有沒有注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6409.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6425.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們來把它一致化這樣才會有一個曲線出來沒錯沒錯沒錯謝謝謝謝那第二個部分就是說因為我看這個就算是我們從111年相比我們的實際的觀看人次也是下降的然後我們的整體就像那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6428.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6444.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一整年我看了一下第一個是觀察人數逐年下降第二個是我們其實花了大概七千多萬去做這些科普的活動可是我們的整體的人次大概只有到三萬多人那這樣子的預算分配投資報酬率似乎有點低欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6445.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6465.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我跟委員報告因為它這樣的分類因為是單一個活動應該是把整個女性兒少科普活動加起來那個人次才會比較正確那現在你們有人次嗎這些女性跟兒少科普活動你們現在有人次嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6465.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6489.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
包括委員我們對於每個專案我們有統計的人數所有的專案合起來這個我們還沒有這樣子的數字那這些詳細的數字可不可以提到我們辦公室讓我們去了解因為我想要說的是說因為觀看這個次數的話可能也許現在沒有正確的數字是比較有點失準但是以科教那種國際台灣科學日他們一年是有50萬人次所以我覺得這個是我們可以來看數字之後再做一些詳細的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6491.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6518.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
接下來就是說我們現在雖然做的很多活動是針對女高中生那個科學日是對女高中生但是我想要問的第一個問題是說到底我們因為在選組高中就已經做不同的選擇了就已經是社會組跟自然組了如果我們想要爭取更多的STEM人才我們是不是應該要再往下提讓他到國中小就開始啟發他這個興趣我們才有可能未來鼓勵女性往這個方向去前進我們可不可以做這樣子的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6520.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6540.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
謝謝 這個完全正確 我想我們朝這個方向來努力應該是很小就要來謝謝喔 那再來就是說第二個問題延伸的是我們這些人次上面我們有沒有去針對於小孩的意見回饋就是說他看完這個展之後他有沒有什麼樣的回饋 他覺得太深或太淺他覺得要怎麼調整 我們沒有收集相關的意見呢來 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6543.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6571.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
報告委員事實上我們都有在做問卷調查例如說那個場域開放科普列車等等我指的是針對於兒少對這些活動其實都是針對高中國中國小所以也都涵蓋在兒少的範圍但是聽起來是量化有質化的研究去了解他們到底覺得這個內容怎麼樣因為我們才能夠去做更精進的修正嘛因為我們的目標是他那是不是有相關的質化研究有因為他們的問卷裡面他們都有一些回饋的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6572.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6590.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以都有相對應的修正是嗎?委員的這個提醒應該蠻重要就是說如果針對那個當事人就是小朋友他的回應會比較接近正式那這個我們來努力看看能不能找一些小朋友來 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6592.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6618.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我想如果現在有做一些意見回饋的話我也想要了解一下這些他們所提的意見那我們的修正計畫我們應對的計畫是什麼這個會議可以提資料到我們辦公室因為既然已經有了嘛那再來下一個問題就是有關於CHAT GPT那這個CHAT GPT我想我就直接講幾個重點就是說我們因為CHAT GPT需要非常不是CHAT GPT我們的台達計畫其實是非常需要大量的資料那我們現在有足夠的資料來去訓練我們這個這個大型的語言模組嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6619.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6646.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們目前就是因為那個也蠻時間蠻趕的只有一年第一個那個7B的模型就是政府公部門的一些資料包括中央社的一些新聞whatever也就是有版權的我們就把它先訓練好那我想問一下它有一個一致的標準嗎因為政府的資料其實也是非標準各自自己上傳各自自己的資料可能標準是不一的那這樣子好用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6647.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6664.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們盡量去用,當然如果他沒有這個電子格式化就不能用目前應該是有,TB那個模型訓練出來是可以讓業界或者是政府單位來當作初步的一個Basic Engine |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6665.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6682.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
所以因為剛剛之前有提到就是說4月會去釋出一個7B的可商用版本那第一個就是說這個時程有改變嗎?沒有變那第二個就是說因為其實CheckGPT也在做這件事情那我們如何跟CheckGPT做競爭呢?我們如何吸引企業來使用? |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6682.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6710.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我們事實上企業一定會用我們因為我們是用版地中文然後他的一些理解是臺灣的culture那企業based on這個東西他就會發展他比如說銀行業他就會更貼近臺灣的一些生活好那我想這東西我們最後就來持續的追蹤使用的狀況那再來第三個最後一個問題這個領域的最後一個問題就是說政府提倡要百工百業用AI對不對那我們在哪一個產業是比較有競爭力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6714.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6739.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
來一個產業對我們台灣我們因為我想可能在半導體或是醫療產業是相對有競爭力的那政府會怎麼樣來協助他們嗎會有哪些協助的計畫我想半導體產業本來就有競爭力對那其他的像我們的精準醫療對健康機械whatever這個都是一些所謂我們5加2產業創新裡面的一些重點那這個我們儘量 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6741.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6743.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
去年Meta已經發表了70倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6773.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6797.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
70B的這個版本那我們接下來也有規劃一個70B的我們現在正在開發嘛對不對正在開發參數量那個是Based on Meta的Lama2然後它有進階我們再拿來去教中文好那我理解了那個必須要用非常大的超級電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6798.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6826.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我懂接下來就是要講超級電腦齁因為超級電腦在世界上面大家競爭非常快速嘛對不對我們在2018年的時候是20名可是我們到2023年已經掉到86名相對我們鄰近的韓國在前50名就已經有3台所以我想要知道說我們今年是有預計要完成16PF嘛對不對這是今年一定會完成嗎今年我那個國運院我們主任說今年會完成一定會完成齁那預計300PF因為世界其實已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6829.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6849.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我跟委員報告以臺灣的尺寸不可能去跟他競爭那麼大的但是我們運用我們的頭腦跟外面的結合那事實上我們在金創臺灣計畫裡面有應該是未來五年計畫會到是200到300PF |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6852.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6858.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們目前的規劃是把它拉得比較長期一點因為這樣的話我們會跟上每個世代的最新的GPU |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6871.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6894.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
謝謝! |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6894.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6909.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好 謝謝張雅玲委員吳主委請回要請羅廷偉委員諮詢之前先宣告一下等一下本席諮詢完我們來休息五分鐘好 我們請羅廷偉委員 謝謝好 謝謝主席 有請吳主委有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6923.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6936.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
主委好主委先謝謝你上次這麼有心分享你的理念還有實際的一些業務那主委我想你也是一個享譽國際的一個學者我想請問你對於當前的教育應該關注什麼樣的一個方向有沒有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6939.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6966.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我還沒有當這個教育部長沒關係這樣子我跟您報告因為跟國會一定會有關係才會詢問這樣子的問題那我想回答他的共同創辦人執行長黃仁勛先生在2024的世界政府峰會上他有講過計算機的時代已經過去下一個黃金賽道是生命科學如果大學能夠重選的話他建議選生命科學而不是電腦科學你怎麼看待這句話這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6968.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6983.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
是對也是錯啦因為他是站在美國的角度來看那生命科學的確我在一二十年前我就說台灣的工學院沒有念生命科學當作必修是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6984.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6989.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
相較於人文社會、工程科學、自然科學目前國科會對於生命科學投入的經費比例大概有多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7008.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7029.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們生命科學的投入比例應該是在4個學術處裡面是最多的未來還會再調整嗎應該是因為我們預算還是有限如果事實上我們的學術處有工程自然跟那個生科還有這個人文社會那我記得我們這個這個生科這邊應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7032.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7045.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
當然我們也是非常看重這一個部分才跟你探討一下我想從台積電在張聰某先生的帶領造就了2024 3月台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7046.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7048.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
主委您對於人機見面的一個布局國科會目前做了些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7077.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7093.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
實際上人機界面的布局實際上從我十幾年前在國科會的時候就有布了但是現在因為因應生存式AI出來以後的確是翻轉那個速度更快那的確是未來的重點我說那個Generative AI |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7095.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7118.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
未來10年每一個月都會變化那國科會也針對這個有佈局事實上我們那個金創台灣計畫的第一支就是百工百業要來弄事實上就是這個緣起那我們現在已經啟動了我想本席建議國科會是不是應該站出來擔任國家隊的一個隊長成立一個AI和BCI的一個人際見面主軸的一個法人 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7121.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7137.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
深層市我現在一直強調是深層市的人工智慧跟原來的人工智慧不太一樣因為深層市已經接近到我們的人那這個的確是未來不只在技術啦會善到社會包括風險包括資安都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7138.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7160.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那這個需要的專業的人力當然是越來越多那我們現在有一個AICOE就人工智慧的Center of Excellence把國內的一些專家集合起來那未來也不排除有一個比較固定的這個單位是好那主委您知不知道中醫藥的一個振興計畫針對該計畫國科會幫忙多少中醫藥這個我這個來處長應該知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7169.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7190.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
國科會一直對這個中醫藥發展是投入很多的我們平均大概一年大概有補助70幾件中醫藥的學門計畫平均大概每一件計畫有120多萬台幣那現在也有規劃一些中醫藥的實證的計畫那大概有兩支一支大概是250萬所以有兩支一年是500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7191.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7218.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
那未來114年應該還會有一個中央計劃是為期4年的也是要做中醫藥的實證計劃以上不好意思因為您的聲音稍微小聲一點待會再稍微大聲一點就好我有盡力在聽我想在這個近幾十年來人工智慧AI在這個中醫學的領域上基礎應用已經匯補一個成果包括AI的診療AI的醫學影像還有AI的藥物研究AI的健康管理我想在傳統中 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7219.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7243.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
中醫都有一個試診望聞問切的一個理論之下逐步結合人工智慧的醫學影像電腦診斷發展舌診儀文診儀以及脈診儀建立更精準的一個標準化數位的一個診斷依據以作為一個推動中醫精準的醫療的一個基石我想諸位針對這個AI的診療醫學影像藥物研究健康管理目前的辦理狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7246.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7258.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那個深層市人工智慧剛出來還不到一年嘛那的確那個方向是正確因為中醫的那些脈動那些數據如果有人工智慧大資料庫來幫忙應該是會有蠻大的這個進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7262.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7264.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
國科會有沒有辦法導入數位科技協助中藥材的一個品質管理? |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7280.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7289.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
國科委還是要仰賴各個大學的教授來幫忙那這個剛剛我們這個處長已經有說過我們相關的計畫都有在call那這個方向應該是 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7295.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7322.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
但是不少國家都開發DNA的方法來做為一個藥材鑑別的一個技術所以我們當然希望說有這個機會可以建議那也希望國科會能夠就這個方面來未來朝向這個瞭解OK 可以嗎我們可以納入請那個申科書納入那主委可以嗎可以可以喔謝謝您那主委你應該有聽過青冠一號那個資料那個會後再給我們好好好那我們再一起瞭解一下主委你應該有聽過青冠一號吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7323.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7329.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
有你有吃過嗎我到現在還沒有喔真的天選之人 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7331.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7358.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
但是我記得我在兩年前去Santiago開那個Bio的機很多台灣的人都買不到事實上我把我們的送給他他就很高興很多人跟我們要我自己也吃過新冠1號它是衛福部自行研發的一個中藥嘛那郭柯惠身為國內科技研發的中藥部會也負責跨部會的一個協調請問新冠1號有沒有其他的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7360.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7362.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
欸 這個要 收掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7363.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7389.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我們國科會在114年會推一個中鋼計畫叫做中醫藥的實證醫學我要特別強調實證兩個字啦對就是說中醫藥歷史很久在臨床上有些可能大家有經驗但沒有實證的臨床資料所以我們會做這個事情我相信在未來應該不只青關醫藥應該很多學者會把他的秘方配方通通會拿出來申請這個實證醫學的計畫以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7391.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7415.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
好,那我想我還是要最後再因為我也蠻關心台版的CHAP GPT那其實我剛剛也談到到我們人腦與AI的這個所謂人機界面那我看到其實整個我們整個國科會裡面能夠帶領未來這個整個人機界面或者是深層式的AI來做一個整合規劃我覺得就像我剛剛在問您如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7415.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7433.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
未來你有辦法再結合一些民間的企業大家一起來整合這相關的資源因為我剛剛有提到台積電啊灰達啊都是我們非常知名的一個廠牌那如果能夠整合成由國家帶領的一個國家隊您做隊長那整合這些民間企業成為一個法人有沒有機會我還是想問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7436.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7437.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
主委您不覺得這些業界其實蠻 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7451.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7477.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
願意付出對國家有一份樂中大家願意來那是不是有可以趁這一次的機會因緣際會下大家有一次的合作未來結合成法人然後有更多更多的一個合作我想台灣如果有這由您的帶領之下又還有這些法人一起來協助對不起又有這些廠商來協助的話我成為這個法人我想可以創造其他的一個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7478.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7483.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
台灣必須要合作事實上金創台灣方案裡面的IC Design跟人工智慧國內的廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7494.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7510.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
因為台灣的半導體是從IC設計製造到封裝測試我們目前正在努力把台灣廠商把它集結在一起包括這個學研界那這個不一定是要我啦但是這個方向應該是會持續推動這個方向是對的嗎您可以認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7511.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7512.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
接下來請陳培鈺委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7547.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7551.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
謝謝主席 那有請主委有請吳主委陳委員長主委早安我們從去年地府上任我們大概10月18日就跟主委請教過關於兒少自殺的死因回溯尤其是衛福部其實已經有6歲以下可是6歲到18歲的相關自殺研究我們之前在跟主委辦公室討論的時候主委您表示您也非常關心而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7577.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7603.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
主委您也承諾說這確實是一個重要的事情那我這邊要說我們要非常感謝國科會確實在後續有召開非常多跨部會的會議可是我們到最近而且我們看到在4個月當中有4次的諮詢會議其實資料我們都收到了我要先謝謝主委但是我們要說後續看到國科會給我們的回應就如同這個簡報上說的國科會的回應告訴我們說已經有一些相關的研究在進行可是最後他卻給了一個結論我唸給主委聽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7607.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7609.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
主委有沒有聽到這邊?你有沒有覺得怪怪的? |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7631.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7649.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
你一定知道我要問什麼意思就是說我們問的是青少年自殺死因的回溯調查可是最後跳出來給我們的結論是說要規劃專案推動新世代青少年數位我先說新世代青少年數位行為跟價值觀研究確實重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7650.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7672.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是他跟青少年死因回溯調查之間的關係到底是什麼因為我剛剛一再說我們非常感謝主委在之前的質詢或是後續辦公室的會議對這個主題的重視而且國科會也願意拿出資源但是我們看到這個報告我們其實有點擔心會不會主委您的幕僚誤會了您的想像跟研究的方向於是做出這個回應給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7674.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7694.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
報告委員我先說明一下可能這個論述裡面有個跳躍就是我們在召開第一次專家會議的時候其實有委員提到一件事我覺得相當重要也就是說其實今天為什麼自殺率會從0.5跳到0.6那其實20%相當的高那原因是因為我們其實知道說這些自殺形態不是傳統的自殺形態 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7695.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7723.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這是專業的給我們的建議所以他們提供一個意見就是說應該全面性的來理解說現在當時的這個世代我們叫阿法世代的青少年他的價值觀的變化在哪裡以至於我們可能沒有辦法用傳統的方式來預測他的自殺率所以我們才會想要綜合衛福部的已經自由的研究教育部的研究我們用後設的方式把他們的資料做一個分析然後我們另外重啟一個價值觀的研究這個是我們想要兩方面結合的一個目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7724.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7748.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這樣您的說明我覺得就相當清楚了聽起來好像也有點合理但是後續我們還是要說因為在你們的報告就是剛剛主委您的幕僚說明的在這個報告裡面確實非常跳躍所以後續是不是也可以補相關資料給我們辦公室因為我們會持續追蹤如果有國科會來發起這個研究它除了可以解除跨部會的限制之外它也可以讓更多相關領域的老師跟專家學者願意回到這個角度來 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7748.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7749.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
第2個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7765.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7774.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
第二部分就是之前也跟主委您討論過科普活動但是我們今天要講的科普不能再只是活動我們這邊想要先謝謝主委之前我們在提到不管是科普列車我們有做非常多調整或是Kids Science確實也讓很多國人跟兒少有更加更多的機會親近所謂的科研場所可是我們要說科普政策治癒國科會的想像因為對我們來說科普不能只是活動那它可以是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7791.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7793.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們來回頭看科普政策當時為什麼會有這個依據我們來回到科技基本法在2017年的時候呢立法說明裡面有提到科普入法的關鍵是 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7813.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7830.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
編列科學技術研究發展預算的研究計畫制定時必須要納入因納入科普推廣之考量但是我們來看目前國科會所有的科普幾乎都是所謂的活動那回到我們剛剛說的那知識傳播或是知識轉譯的部分科學傳播的部分它不能再只是活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7834.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7846.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
對於國科會辦科普活動來說好像沒有把所謂的知識轉譯跟科學傳播放在活動規劃或者是政策推動的視野當中這個部分是不是可以請國科會做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7849.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7867.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
包括委員我們在推動科普裡面有另外一個範疇是就是補助學校教授執行科普計劃那這個科普計劃裡面有很多都是在執行那個科技轉移的工作那這個部分如果如同剛剛您所說的有補助很多的教授那相關資料我們會在後續跟你們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7870.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7887.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
主委很在意科普的傳播,除了大學教授之外,我們可以看到中研院有一個叫顏值有物,或是民間的科學月刊,還有很多民間的科普網站,其實他們都在對一般的公民做很重要的知識轉譯的示範。 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7889.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7905.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我覺得這些事情都必須要放進國科會做科普活動推廣的視野當中但是如果如同您剛剛說的它只有在大學教授的研究範圍當中或是只有在大學教授校內的活動當中那其實離一般公民離一般兒少其實還是非常遙遠這個部分國科會有機會再調整跟改進嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7911.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7924.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
實際上我在會內科普不是只有我們科國處的工作其他的學術處也都有所以實際上明天我們的物理跟數學有兩支影片會公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7925.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7926.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
拜託主委注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7956.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7984.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
的資料來支持然後進行相關的規劃所以我們之前看到國科會給委員會的報告是活動參與人數啦投入預算作為所謂的KPI可是如果我們一再只有看到這些我相信後續不會再只有我問這個問題應該所有委員都會知道要離開活動的層面來看科普政策在國科會的支持底下它會是什麼樣態所以這個部分如同剛剛主委跟您的幕僚都已經回復我們也希望看到後續國科會在這個部分可以持續的調整好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7985.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7986.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
李政鴻教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8002.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8028.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
還有林煌雄教授討論到氣候領域也是跟台灣有關叫台灣地球系統模型的研究這些都很重要而且是台灣重要的本土研究但確實不容易被注意到因為大家可能看到是科技類AI這種很夯的主題可是我們要再次肯認國科會注意到這些默默付出研究精神跟精力跟時間的研究人員我們覺得這個很重要也希望未來國科會可以持續這個部分可不可以請主委快速回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8029.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8056.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
謝謝委員的肯定事實上除了行政院傑出科技貢獻獎我們今年度也在國科傑出研究獎裡面有主動臨選的六位長期默默在台灣耕耘的教授出來把他們顯現出來不是只有發表論文的我想我們未來會加重這一部分也就是說你的科技研究是有針對這塊土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8058.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8063.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
國科會頒發傑出研究獎目前我們知道國科會非常努力在提升女性科研人員我們看到這個比例到達23%在去年的資料可是如果對照傑出研究獎的得獎性別比例其實還有一些差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8086.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8105.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們可以看到我這邊框起來是17.5%那我當然知道會因為不同的研究位置可以投入科研時間長度會有影響會有差別可是我現在框起來這17.5%裡面其實也包含了人文社會領域對嗎所以實際上科研領域的女性研究人員獲獎應該會比這個更少 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8108.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8128.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
主委您認為呢?應該好像...所以我們在期待喔國科會是不是在整體提升女性參與跟持續投入科研的工作應該可以持續再改善跟討論那我看你的幕僚在後面很想幫主委回答是不是我們就讓幕僚回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8129.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8146.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
報告委員的確人文處這邊是女性的研究人員比例最高的將近一半我們在領選委員的時候其實也都會注意性別的平衡因此在尊重性別平衡的狀態底下我們選出來的其實我們就沒有再特別去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8147.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8161.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
但是我們可以看到這個比例因為我覺得國科會有這個態度很重要但是我們如果看到這個比例調整我都覺得當然還是要重視到研究本身的品質是沒有問題的可是我覺得就性別鼓勵的立場是不是可以請主委再做出一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8162.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8167.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所以今天我們總統跟主委討論了三個題目一個是關於兒童自殺死因回溯第二個是科普不能再只有活動他必須要所有的理論支持作為科普的推廣的依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8186.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8199.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
第3個就是關於這個女性女性研究人員必須要被看見這個部分我們後續辦公室也會再跟國科會持續討論那也謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝可以謝謝好謝謝陳培鈺委員我主委請回哎呦 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8211.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8212.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
主委早 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8225.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8240.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
從台灣第一枚的這個自製氣象衛星這個裂縫者升空開始翻開了台灣太空發展的新篇章那同時呢也持續提供遙測跟氣象的資料那貢獻給國際社會讓台灣這個在太空科技發展這條路上跟國際接軌那不落人後我想在這裡要藉這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8252.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8268.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
先肯定國科會有關於太空自主關鍵技術發展的努力不過太空科技的發展其實是一場很艱困的挑戰會隨著國際情勢的演變我們也需要相應的迅速來應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8269.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8293.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
近期媒體報載二國傳出正在研發太空核電站的消息中國的太空發展更是急起直追2022年底天宮太空站已經全面建成也更陸續進行了月球跟火星的探測計畫至於印度的太空科研也積極發展登月計畫以及國造載人的航天計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8298.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8324.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
由此可見世界各國大家都很加強火力在發展這個太空科技那請問主委目前就我們台灣的最新的這個太空計畫裡頭是不是像我所剛所說就是說太空科研需要因應這個國際情勢的演變以及配合國家的安全會有不同的規劃那同時也要做修正跟研議所以我們要如何面對這樣變化中的這個國際情勢對於我們的太空科技發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8330.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8347.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
委員講的完全正確而且是必須要走的方向事實上從2019 Elon Musk Starlink出來以後我們也馬上跟上當然台灣跟中國跟美國不太一樣因為國家的size不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8349.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8372.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我們是要找對時間點切進去那事實上台灣應該也有掌握到這個機會就這個通訊衛星他未來會帶來很多新的產業的機會我們也有步了那另外這個火箭之前沒有但是未來現在我們啟動台灣的火箭的一些研發跟研製也在順利在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8373.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8402.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
當然要在這邊跟委員報告就是說台灣不是一個大型的國家那我們必須要施力要施的巧那事實上我們有在這邊注意也注意到說除了這個低軌中軌高軌的通訊以外月球跟火星的探測也是未來一個重要的地方我們也會來跟民主友好的國家一起來協力合作謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8403.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8424.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
另一部分本席想請教因為去年蔡總統10月有表示說我們國家太空科技發展的長程計畫剛剛也有委員詢問要再加碼至少400億那我想這個投入他是要投入低軌的通訊衛星的研製規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8426.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8431.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
以及國家發射場跟人才的培育這幾大項根據產經新聞的報導台灣今年有望開始進入低軌的衛星通訊時代來補足傳統4G、5G沒有辦法完全覆蓋台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8446.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8447.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我們已經要進入這個低軌衛星通訊時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8474.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8498.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
兩方面短期來講當然我們的衛星網還不會那麼快但是短期我們會跟國際的大廠包括OneWeb或者是歐洲的一些廠商美國Starlink我們也沒有放棄事實上目前只有Starlink跟OneWeb比較成熟這個短期我們持續跟他們接觸合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8499.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8528.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
包括那個亞馬遜的開闊我們也不排除合作在技術上的合作那long term來講的確台灣因為是一個海島必須要有自己的一個衛星網路那這個太空中心有在研議佈局當中好那至於國家發射場的部分那當然我們不好意思我剛剛那個400億還有包括火箭的研發對對對所以我現在就要跟你說火箭 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8529.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8553.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
因為我們現在當然就是說我們有這個屏東旭海的這個科研火箭發射場這是用在短期的科研對嘛那永久性的國家級的這個火箭發射場目前長子的評估如何除了台東的那個南田以外還有沒有其他的進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8555 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8578.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
現在我們進到說我們要把那個未來的發射廠因為事實上要用的話可能好幾十年的時間不能亂選而且未來的擴充性也要大所以它基本的地理物理還有一些這個環境的影響它的一些審查的要件我們剛好在2月也把它審過了現在會持續來 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8579.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8600.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
進行下面的程序。我們預計在年底會把那個場子選定。決定?確定?對。OK。好。那也會跟在地的就是居民、縣市政府也會做一些溝通。好。好。那另外就人才培育的部分。本期上次會期有詢問高教端這個太空相關科系設立的這個狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8604.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8610.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
加上這個蔡總統加碼這個研發的經費所以我們目前的規劃是如何這個大學端 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8614.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8633.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
大學端的這個太空相關科系的設置我們有四個相關的太空相關的系所就設立了那那個學生都是爆滿那另外我們太空中心也有一些太空相關的培育的一些訓練營包括給產業都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8637.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8654.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我大概問幾下一個是基礎是在大學端有四所太空系統工程研究所去年幾乎全部滿招甚至有些學校備一都進不去然後另外一個是比較偏太空中心就是比較在培養太空科技學材我們辦了很多這種訓練的課程所以現在大學端有四個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8659.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8670.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
另外一個是經濟部的他們其實有很多在比較產創這些方面的訓練相當多的人才好那如果4個都報滿有沒有考慮再多增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8671.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8679.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
接下來想要跟您討論的就是如何健全我國資安防護的體質因為這個禮拜一我們為了討論各界關注的衛星資訊安全議題美台衛星安全國際研討會有在台灣舉辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8695.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8716.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這場研討會代表著衛星通訊資安的重要性不過也不只衛星的通訊資安我國政府的各部會的整體的資安防護在台灣不分公家民間的部門越來越常受到網路攻擊的狀況之下我們要更有系統的布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8717.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8743.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
當然舉例來說像鴻海旗下半導體大廠金鼎就1月遭到駭客入侵這一起事件的重要性當然就影響了台灣半導體產業的穩定性那國科會下面有個資安科技研究中心那我想這個是負責佈局中上游的資安學術的科學中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8744.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8765.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那串聯下游這個跨部會合作的應用那來聚焦這個關鍵議題的研究那引導策略性國際資安學術這個合作那同時我們當然也要延攬這個國際的學者來訪台來參與所謂的我們的這個研究計畫培育這個資安的學術人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8767.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8787.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
經過我們初步的詢問我們現在國科會2023年培育高階資安技術研發人才有341位那我想請教是說這些專業人才投入了哪些單位來協助我們的資安科技那我們有沒有想要把這些培育出的這個人才都留在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8791.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8812.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們會盡力因為這個資安人才最近世界各國都在搶包括台灣國內也在搶政府都是搶不贏外面的公司但是的確是未來需要更多的資安相關的人才我們TACC就是在因為TACC是我們一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8813.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8814.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們也在努力當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8838.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8854.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
最後要強調資安及國安公部門的資訊安全其實需要不分行政立法共同來加強資安防護的落實就如同國防要自主所以資訊安全的防護也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8855.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8881.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
國造就是自主我們就要自主來健全自己的體質那所以期待這個資安科技這個研究中心我們可以有更專業更完整的這個佈局那我想這個我們都要來努力那我想剛剛提到的不管是資安不管是這個我們火箭這個發射場不管是人才的培育這些都還要繼續來加油好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8882.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8886.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝 國科繼續努力謝謝主委 謝謝林益勤委員 謝謝主委接下來有請吳春成委員休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9263.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9267.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好 我們繼續開會我們接下來請吳春成委員質詢好 謝謝主席那我們請主委好 有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9286.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9312.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
主委好吳委員長上次跟你聊天聊得很開心上了一課我們繼續討論我想國科會代表國家的智庫引領國家發展的方向主委就形容是一代宗師地位非常重要我也非常尊敬那我要請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9314.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9319.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我個人的看法我覺得往前30年台灣最重要的事情是民主化 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9321.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9348.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
你認同嗎?當然那往後30年你覺得最重要的事情是什麼?還是民主民主台灣現在民主已經很成功了權力都在人民的手上了好不好權力都在人民人民做主毫無問題往後30年最重要的是人口學的問題了解台灣是以最嚴重的人口變化高齡化跟少子化都是全世界第一名最壞的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9351.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9369.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那這個你認同嗎?認同!你認同喔?真的是...我們稱為叫國安問題嘛很重要齁好這個呢我剛看了我們今天報告的這個高齡產業而且最近你看國科會有記者會嘛就是高齡科技產業的一個行動記者會發佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9372.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9391.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
要未來四年當中又要投入95億然後整合八大部會帶動我們高齡產業3000億那這非常好的事情但是呢不只3000億3000億已經是十幾年前工研院在說的了後來就沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9392.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9420.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
林德國說21世紀最大的經濟動人就是長壽經濟帶動的經濟所以長壽經濟未來台灣一半的人口都會有高齡者所組成的社會這樣的經濟這是我們的未來然後一代宗師要引領我們看見這個但是老實講我看到了現在的內容當中沒有這些內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9423.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9446.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
主委是帶路的人 帶頭的人 八大部位都跟著你這一個如果走錯路的話 這一個問題會很嚴重所以我今天就想要跟你一起來討論這個問題 這個就行政院超高齡社會對策的大綱主委你看一下 你覺得幾歲算老人 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9450.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9471.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
幾歲算老人?我超過65了以前的定義是65歲以上就是老人但是這個是到目前是不符合目前的現狀我們政府定義中高齡是指幾歲? |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9473.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9476.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
因為全世界聯合國他們也是這樣定義的 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9496.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9522.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是台灣是世界最嚴重的而且速度最快的其實不要跟著美國走美國永遠是一個年輕社會他們是一個移民社會他們高齡問題不嚴重台灣的高齡問題非常嚴重好不好所以呢不要都說國際怎麼樣我們就跟著怎麼樣我們要走我們自己的路好不好我們看我們現在的這個行政院的這個大綱你覺得呢這個就是這個要提供你服務因為基本上你是符合這個需求的人你看一看哪一些是你想要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9523.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9545.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你要長照嗎?你有無障礙休閒需求嗎?你有老人憂鬱症嗎?你有生死血的需求?你有育育移足的需求嗎?你們全部所提出來的大綱就是這個嘛不是老病就是醫療就是說明照顧嘛這個就是行政院對高齡社會的想像嘛國科會就是這個計畫的規劃者嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9547.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9564.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
去年召開這個高齡科技產業策略會議這個就是最後的願景最後的願景文字很多大家不用看了就看那個圖就知道了你們想像未來希望幸福的老人跟那個就是這個圖嘛對不對安心舒適成就富足嘛安養晚年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9566.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9584.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這是我們政府的引發思維的想像嗎?你覺得我們現在的社會是這樣子嗎?一般的人口是要長這個樣子嗎?這就是行政 這個很嚴重喔因為你們在主導 因為政府的想像主導 這個當然就是普惠科技就是那一份計畫書 那一場會議當中的大綱 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9586.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9602.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所有的裡面名字好像取得有些蠻好聽的包括我在看今天的報告也有高齡科技的高齡產業的問題但是我沒有看到內容只有口號而已叫做提升社會參與我沒有看到你們提升什麼社會參與的一些計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9603.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9603.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
錯誤人設 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9622.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9648.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
整個我們對老人的錯誤人設就是引法主簡單來講他就引法思維引法主引法思維就黃社這一邊台灣平均壽命8點多年已經快到9年了那這就是我們對於目標嘛就要讓他好好的臥床嘛對不對臥床舒服一點嘛那這就是高齡科技的目標嘛然後他的生活場域不是生活在醫院就是要去醫院的路上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9649.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9650.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這就是我們政府現在看到所有的政策當中所做的對高齡者的人設 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9662.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9690.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你要服務這樣子的人當然我告訴你時代已經不是這樣子那那個北歐國家認為高齡者臥床正常應該兩禮拜兩週啦我們搞到快九年啦如果兩週那個就是不需要因為兩週很快嘛我們的產業都不需要服務臥床整個產業是要讓他過了壯世代美好的第三人生所有的政策是為這個而設置而我們不是在做這個我們是在要讓他好好臥床 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9691.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9710.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
你看這個影響有多大,這裡呢應該我們沒有說叫他對啊你沒有叫他,但是這個政策的方向我現在老實講我看到整個的方向都是政策都是引法思維行政院的都是引法思維這個方向在做下去而且國科會辦點非常重要因為你在帶路咧,你要趕快把他帶回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9714.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9733.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我會拜託主委趕快把它帶回來,帶到一條正確的路線委員的這個觀念我是認同的就是說,65歲到90歲依照不同年齡的這個層,事實上不要把它認為是老,這個是正確的對,因為我們現在其實不是反對那一塊,那一塊只占人口老人所謂的15%而已,有85%不太有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9736.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9746.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
台灣現在退休平均60.3歲退休60歲上有多少人呢?六八百人退休以後在幹什麼?沒有政策沒有產業自生自滅各憑本事 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9750.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9772.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這麼龐大而且這不是這樣子這個越來越多以後2030年台灣一般人超過50歲你知道未來台灣是我們都沒有在告訴這個是MASO的八大需求最低層次叫生理需求叫安全需求這大家都知道嘛對不對我們現在整個的政府政策只在滿足最低層次的需求生理需求上面的需求全部 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9773.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9774.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9797.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9799.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以這個會導致什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9799.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9811.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個就是你們市場想像的很侷限產業的類型侷限 這件事情對未來的發展國科會非常重要 這個我看到行政院包括各個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9812.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9814.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
現在高齡者都是戰後嬰兒草這一群人是人類有史以來最強壯的時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9842.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9857.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以你還可以為國家做很多事情啦不要想退休啦繼續努力啦好不好免利你啦我會繼續努力不管在民間也是可以繼續努力沒有沒有沒有你要更上一層樓好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9859.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9883.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以我今天會有一些提案當然剛才也看到了一個就是說我們對於壯世代這個新人類其實新的戰後嬰兒草這一群人掌握台灣三分之二財富大部分的智慧腦庫都在他們腦袋裡面而且他們平均比富祖輩多出20歲這一群人不要再用過去的那種老人的眼光看待他們導致他們被嚴重的歧視 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9884.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9885.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們再來請范雲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9910.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9910.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9919.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9924.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
主委早安我想在整理今天要問什麼問題的這個禮拜那真的發現這個主委任內非常有開創性針對重要的科技趨勢譬如說今天也有委員問過的本土生成式的AI還有就是大家都很關心的精創台灣方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9942.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9962.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我覺得都是非常有前瞻性就是說我們在這個科技的前沿怎麼樣為台灣創造最大的公共的利益的部分我想主委任內的這幾些做法我覺得都是非常引領我們委員還沒想到的你們都先規劃了所以是肯定就是主委這方面的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9963.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9982.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
就是非常的期待讓台灣在未來的10年我們都有機會繼續引領那對我關心的一些問題不管是性別人文社會科學主委也非常的關注那這點我也肯定就是說相比於就是說我們看到過去的國科我覺得這也是非常的可圈可點 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9983.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9999.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
但是今天還是希望要精進啦就是我們還是要能夠更好那我們立委的監督力道也不能夠因為你們做得很好放鬆嘛要更好所以今天先請問那個深層式AI一年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10000.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10025.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
去年3月15日的時候我當時就以國外的研究談到那個human in the loop society in the loop就是其實AI生成式的設計中應該要納入倫理機制那要讓它有臺位人位倫理性平等等所以當時提了三個要求第一個要降低資料庫的偏見第二個AI的決策過程要加入人為跟社會參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10027.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10043.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
決策過程第三個要研發人工道德行為者這樣的機制那你們辦公室都有跟我們回應那我們也非常的肯定我們看到就是去年6月我們就第一次發布自主開發的可信任的生成式AI |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10045.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10073.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以這部分這個泰德計劃我想算是非常的讓人值得期待我知道你們還沒有正式開放據我了解的是公部門包含榮總中研院氣象等等這些單位都已經跟你們表達就是要相關的合作取得這些就是這個這整個的過程我想這真的是對我們未來的國家發展很重要那也有就是13家廠商跟你們簽署了MOU |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10073.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10091.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10091.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10107.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我之前問的那個倫理機制所以本土的部分其實你們已經做到了那倫理機制涉及到我剛剛所講的沒有資料偏見這個部分那你辦公室去年5月給我的回應是說你們已經考慮了倫理因素將延期國際相關技術並參酌委員意見納入泰德設計的開發過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10115.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10131.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
主委可以講一下你們是怎麼納入的嗎?因為納入這兩個字我跟辦公室研究了很久還不清楚可不可以跟我們分享一下這個有一點技術的問題因為我們大家聽得懂的話告訴我們第一個就是說他在回答的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10132.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10156.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們現在台的引擎事實上有另外一支計畫在數位部那邊去驗測他會去問他然後給他一些其實用一個檢測測試的方式因為我有看到新聞報導你們都有在測試嘛有點在教小朋友的這個概念那另外一個就是說針對被盜用或whatever事實上如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10156.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10185.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
他這個對話引擎去唸一些他沒有著作權的資料那未來我們會埋進去就這個時候他一唸到那個東西馬上就會被發現就是如果他答出來的比如說具有不夠具有多元性或是在倫理上其實有偏誤的會在測試的結果裡面做修正是這樣嗎修正那另外一個也會讓這個擁有者知道說他東西被 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10186.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10194.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
人民也有一定的信心喔但是我還是覺得從我看到的資訊你們給我的回覆跟您剛剛的答覆我覺得這個倫理的這個議題就是我講的human in the loop society in the loop |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10207.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10207.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們這個已經確定是本土的生存性AI可能會 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10234.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10262.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
甚至比其他的國家還做得更好那不知道那個主委可以就是說承諾往這個方向去努力嗎因為我這是需要我知道這個執行起來都不容易啊謝謝 這個的確必須要啦因為我剛剛講這個深層次人工智慧未來應該是在每個家庭都會有一個小機器人然後這是他的腦所以他的倫理法治道的關鍵一定是要有我們台灣的想法跟思想這個我們會來做好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10262.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10287.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
因為你這個未來醫療啊氣象啊企業都會用到所以你們前端就是說做得好的話我想我們全國都會能夠享用跟升級好不好那主委這部分針對你們如何在前端而不是在後端引入這個就是人文社會那去思考倫理跟相關的部分的話那報告在兩個月之內再給我一份好不好就是規劃的話就是說OK |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10290.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10306.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
另外一題我想今天大家都很關心也非常期待就是這個精創台灣方案因為真的是我剛講我非常的肯定主委有這個10年的規劃那我也覺得國家資源必須要放在這有國科會的領導非常的好那你們會結合現在我們剛講的深層式AI |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10311.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10312.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
主委簡要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10338.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10348.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝 委員這個蠻正確的 事實上我們在盤點精創台灣計畫的時候以前的都會把它併入 就是一個更龐大的計畫了 不能重疊 因為有些會有關聯性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10353.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10373.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那我相信您喔 那我就追問一個我之前也問過的問題啊之前那個人文科技齁 記不記得我問過說經費佔無非常的驚慌 驚訝 覺得就是說我們台灣的人文社會經費人才我質詢也講過跟OECD國家比 我們是人文人才極低 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10374.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10396.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
社會科學也相對低我們是科技一枝獨秀我知道主委很重視這一塊可是當時報紙就爆出了經費戰後來你們有跟我講說可能是個錯誤對不對我還是要求說應該增加所以從八大前瞻到這個精創台灣人文社會科學你要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10397.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10420.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
相關的人才去研究才能夠整合到底經費有沒有增加後來我質詢過之後情況如何主委可以簡要說明嗎事實上那個是超過10億台幣就是八大裡面超過10億對對就人文科技這邊那事實上在這個比例是不是還是太低了你看淨零科技就119億對不對那個我跟委員報告這會有一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10421.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10439.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
會有一個過程當然也是啦合理啦另外一個我們現在有一個科民社就是科技民主社會我知道就是政大的那個社會政大那個非常讓人期待就是說他們來看看未來臺灣怎麼要人文社會接到我們的製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10440.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10442.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
在你們的四大佈局當中我們辦公室去研究你們其實佈局一有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10462.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10463.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10487.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10511.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
產業創新的來源就人文社會生活的一些感觸那一下子因為台灣以前是比較代工思維那你要慢慢過來我們這個全產業創新會讓更多的年輕朋友對人才也需要培養比如現在的博士生就要知道說往這個方向了也就是說因為原來這個是IC Design這些人大部分是半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10514.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10529.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這兩群人怎麼借接在一起是這個計畫第一步要做的主委因為時間的關係快到了我想因為您這個十年計畫精創台灣大家非常的期待八大前瞻也會整合到裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10529.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10552.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那是不是我很希望520之後您繼續領導那但是就是說我不知道您有沒有意願等等那是不是520前也給我一個人文社會科學如何整合在裡面的一個10年初步的規劃好不好如何預算慢慢的成長我想您的魄力跟遠見對人文社會科學的關注都是非常重要的所以希望您520前可不可以給我們辦公室一個初步的報告規劃可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10555.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10575.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
謝謝主委加油我們期待您繼續領導台灣更上一層我們也非常歡迎謝謝好謝謝范雲委員吳主委請那我們現在先來處理這個臨時提案那今天有委員提出臨時提案有三案那我們一併宣讀請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10577.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10602.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
第一案有介於近幾年生成式人工智慧AI技術發展一日成日影響遍佈全球產官學研各界其生成創作內容在提供生活上娛樂便利與提高工作效率的同時也引發著作權爭議以及大量性有職業被取代的焦慮在將來生成式AI勢力進一步結合產業應用的同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10603.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10633.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
因先就AI對就業市場潛在的衝擊進行評估並致力相關配套措施以預防人類工作被大量取代所引發之社會動盪原請國家科學及技術委員會針對深層式AI與就業市場可能產生的衝擊範圍深度進行評估提出立法規範建議或參考指引並於3個月內就其進度向立法院教育及文化委員會提出書面報告。提案人 洪孟凱 萬美玲 林怡瑾 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10633.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10657.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
第二案有介於國家科學技術發展基金在高齡議題上多數以高齡長者因法族群的醫療及安全需求作為研究導向實際上有關狀世代族群在食衣住行娛樂等相關需求之研究寥寥無幾上述情形顯示國科會在高齡科技產業發展上存在高齡需求數據嚴重不足之問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10659.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10677.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
進而在缺乏對壯士代需求的理解下因目標市場模糊和不合理難以有顯著成果國科會因規劃高齡科技產業的市場需求調查於一個月內提出書面報告與立法院教文委員會提案人吳春成、萬美玲、洪孟凱 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10678.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10703.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
第三案有建於國科會推動高齡科技產業行動計畫預計4年內投入95億元經費並整合行政院經濟部衛福部數位部教育部內政部文化部及原民會共8大部會然而台灣過去社會環境或是政府的高齡化對策都以養生養老養病作為思考點高齡科技多局限於醫療保健等生理需求問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10704.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10727.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
國科會應基於高齡科技相關計劃之研究基礎探討科技與設計在50歲以上人口生活中所扮演的角色並用上述議題精進高齡科技產業相關計劃及提出專責市場需求系統性研究方案於3個月內提出書面報告與立法院教文委員會提案人吳春成萬美玲紅夢凱旋的完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10728.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10753.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
好 那我們請問三個案的提案委員有沒有補充說明或意見如果沒有的話 那主委要不要補充說明好 謝謝 這個委員提案第一案 這個遵照辦理好 那個第二案的話再有一些小文字修正在最後倒數第二行就國歌會因就把它劃掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10755.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10779.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
會同經濟部、衛福部、速發部規劃這中差了幾個字那這個跟委員有協調過應該是OK那第三案也是稍微文字修正在上面算下來第1、2、3、4第5行國科會因會同經濟部、衛福部、速發部基於高齡科技其他就沒有修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10780.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10794.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
好,那吳委員沒問題吼?對不起,還有一個,第二案不好意思吼,第二案那個一個月改成三個月OK,好,那我們第一案就遭案通過第二案跟第三案都修正通過好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10797.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10820.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那各題案如果有委員要補簽我們請議事委員來詳細登載在議事錄那補簽在這裡那我們接下來進行質詢我們請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在林德福委員林德福林德福委員不在鄭天才鄭天才鄭天才委員不在接下來我們請吳思瑤委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10827.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10828.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
謝謝主席有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10836.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10838.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
今天因為我只有4分鐘我會努力兩個主題就是我長期在監督的文化科技的跨域合作還有TTA進駐北市科 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10859.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10885.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在本席的不斷的倡議之下也謝謝主委謝謝政委科技顧問制度科技顧問會議在去年12月再重新召開了那個時候我們都忙於選舉但是我也有持續follow那我確實看到在我們八位國內外的科技專家共同進入三天深度的討論確實為我們未來台灣的科技發展定矛定方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10886.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10909.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
半導體跟AI的部分做出了三個策略的結論第一個是加強培育人才第二個加速應用技術的發展第三個要以生成式AI Plus晶片來驅動全產業的創新而且要強化新創的服務 樣樣相向都非常的正確而且有遠見 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10910.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10939.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
在近鄰科技的面向一樣有三個策略要針對台灣特性來定定台灣具發展潛力的近鄰科技而且以2030為目標非常明確第二呢利用台灣近鄰轉型的機會要培養在地的綠色供應鏈這也非常的重要最後一個把握AI的轉型契機加速產業近鄰以數位雙轉型那您對於這樣的科技顧問會議能夠重新上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10940.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10961.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
您覺得這樣是不是非常值得、非常正確?謝謝委員持續關心也在催生的科技顧問會議的確台灣在面對未來實際上需要國際更多的傑出領袖一起來給我們做一些建議跟comment的確這一次針對半導體AI科學 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10962.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10971.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我已經看到非常就是有願景有vision的好那你也知道我會問那你會擴充他的領域別嗎會一年是開兩次 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10973.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10999.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
還是一次?那你下一個階段要擴充哪一個面向?應該是會把它全部佈下來了。其實上我在這個整個科技的發展會跟所謂STEEP從社會、經濟、科技、政治跟環境邁向明年的全國科技顧問會議再行召開那勢必我希望您也能夠繼續留在內閣的崗位上我也會大力推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11002.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11025.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
您也持續領導我們我個人真的看到您的願景很好下一頁那另外呢在我們科技顧問會議之下就是今年緊鑼密鼓接力接棒的就是第12次的全國科學技術會議全國的科技大會但是我要提醒本期一直在講的文化科技或是科技文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11026.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11040.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
從鄭麗君到李永德到施哲文化科技施政綱領已經Pending了1262天行政院還沒有合定我知道這個計畫的主責文化部是 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11041.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11062.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
主要的主責機關你們是協力者但是您是科技的政委我提醒在第12次全國科技技術會議裡頭能夠把文化技術文化科技也納為一個討論的重點我想這個做得到也有利於我們在review文化科技施政綱領是不是要修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11063.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11089.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這個可以 這個我國科會目前正在安排這個好 那謝謝您的promise所以科技導入可以用在強化台灣的文化韌性就是文化資產的修復包括可以做強化我們的文化禁用也可以包括我們的語言保存來下一頁TTA很重要蔣萬安市長這段時間發給我們臺北市的立委厚厚的一疊公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11090.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11111.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
當中他提請跨黨派的立委來協助臺北市的建設發展我非常同意吳思堯從以前到現在就是跨黨派在協助臺北市我不會因為執政的市長是白的是藍的而我不替臺北發聲NO吳思堯永遠是替臺北發聲超越黨派走在最前面但是我赫然發現蔣萬安市長發函要我們請臺北 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11115.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11132.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
請中央來協助地方的事項有19個要修的法案20個要爭取的預算項目沒有我們努力這麼久的TTA新創基地來落腳北市科欸下一頁所以您下一頁我謝謝您下一頁下一頁好回到前一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11139.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11161.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
來下一頁好錯了好下一頁上一次您跟我一起到北市科去現場考察了我們也跟台北市政府做成了會議方向的結論在僅剩的北市科T3 T4的用地裡頭用承租的方式或是專案讓售的方式讓我們的TTA有一個長治久安進駐的地點而目前的結論下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11163.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11177.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
似乎是願意臺北市願意再跟廠商再成都新的土地的地上全的標案內容裡頭保留一層需求是你們提的大概1400平然後每平大概1300元這條件應當是你們談過的但是進度到底怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11182.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11207.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
如果這個事情是這麼的方向明確那為什麼蔣萬安市長在要求跨黨派的立委協助臺北的周洋地方合作的時候就獨露這一項我要說蔣萬安市長你是新創市長就搞真的不要把這件事情一直擱在那裡這不是吳思瑤的credit這是臺灣科技發展的需要這是臺北市產業進步的需要好就這個案子你們的立場跟進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11210.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11227.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
謝謝吳委員的關心事實上TTA在臺北小巨蛋短期再成都7年那的確也不是一個長久之計那如果臺北市有適合的地方這個我去看了一下應該是蠻好的一個地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11229.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11237.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好 我們現在還有7年的時間可以來繼續下一個中長期的計劃因為現在你們又在繼續續租小巨蛋還被台北市起起起這個租金每瓶增加83塊降我們租金好 我們勉為其難繼續租用但未來長城的合作落腳在北市科大家都搞了這麼久看了這麼久我會再次督促蔣萬安市長新創市長就完真的不要打假球 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11257.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11258.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那國科會準備好了嗎?我們加強跟他們洽談好嗎?這個應該是對台北市會也是一個plus |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11266.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11291.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
我們不管台北市怎麼樣的delay我們不會放棄私藥不會放棄I am watching you all ok加油謝謝謝謝謝謝主席給我時間謝謝好謝謝謝謝吳私藥委員好我們接下來吳主委請我們接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在我們接下來請林倩琦委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11296.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11296.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11310.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11315.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
主委好,首先非常感謝國會聯絡組在我要的資料的部分也給了相當完整的資料所以今天有這個機會可以跟主委這邊來討論相關的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11328.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11355.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
今天如果時間夠的話我想跟主委溝通一下有關於原住民的這個研究跟我們這個國科會跟體育運科中心的一個相關的平台在這個不知道主委對於族群研究與原住民族研究這個整合型計畫的一個起始跟目前執行的狀況的一個瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11356.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11376.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個我瞭解因為原住民族包括原住民族科技的永續的一些平台事實上我們蠻關切的那我記得應該兩三年前我說因為也有委員來提議我說國科會作為國家的科學技術的一個主管機關我們有責任來做這樣的一個佈置 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11377.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11397.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
更何況援助民主的一些相關的生活跟科技事實上也可以作為未來永續發展的一個很好的借鏡那事實上我們因為未來2050近年很多援助民主的一些生活方式是蠻符合近年的這個方向的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11397.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11401.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
謝謝主委我聽到也蠻放心的因為在這個內容上在科技的這個部分好像在計畫裡面我沒有看到被特別的強調那所以剛才主委講的這個方向如果是依照這樣子走的話那我還蠻欣慰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11415.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11436.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以在這邊我想跟主委這邊做一個詢問有關於原住民族這個族群研究與原住民族的整合型計畫那我想請教一下那個整合型計畫的這樣為什麼要用整合型計畫的一個方式請問這樣子的一個決策不知道主委有沒有了解或者是請處長來做個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11437.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11464.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
報告委員因為當初我們做族群研究跟原住民族研究是想要跟原來每位學者自有的研究有所差別那希望是在族群的連結以及原住民族的其他擴大的議題所以整合型的研究是因為是整個國科會對於研究形態的一種規定那也就是說希望三件計畫能夠結合成一個團隊然後往單一的方向那這樣目標清楚但是會跨不同的領域所以有這樣的一個設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11466.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11488.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
謝謝您,我可不可以以這邊做一個建議因為之前團隊當然是很認真就是我有問過這裡面有關於具備原住民身份的這個研究者跟非原住民身份的研究者這邊那好像我們會裡面目前還沒有相關的資料所以我的一個建議是可不可以開放個別 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11489.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11490.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11506.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11530.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11530.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11531.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝委員提醒這個應該現在就可以決定當然可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11558.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11558.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11576.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11598.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
因為我們長期會被框在人類學然後族群那似乎我們跟科技自然或者是最尖端的AI一點關係都沒有那我想這已經是長久很多原住民的這個青年包括我就覺得我們為什麼一定要被這麼刻板的看待那如果長得不是太土的話你就看起來不像原住民這樣子的刻板印象其實長期這樣一個隱性的歧視會讓我們覺得有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11605.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11621.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
謝謝委員的提醒這個就是一般型個人來提應該是可以的我想人文處會來發謝謝主委那接下來是我就資料的這個部分有一點提醒是不是可以請這個處內這邊就是會裡面也幫忙做一些瞭解那在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11627.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11627.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
議員吳政忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11644.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11644.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11664.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11664.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
我們再看一下這個拍圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11692.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11713.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我們可以清楚地看到110一直到113都會區北部已經超過了一半我們知道現在也有一些都會原住民的議題是不是有可能在這樣一個取向上第一個先注意一下我們經費分布的一個平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11715.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11715.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這是大學提出來的研究計畫嗎?這個機構? |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11733.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11753.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
對,那所以在通過的這樣一個考量上可不可以在區會的分部再多做一些了解我來了解一下,看是申請的比較少還是怎麼樣我來了解一下是是,所以這個資源的分配請會裡面可以幫我們了解一下這樣子的一個不平均尤其是一一三年都會去看起來還蠻多的那當然我知道可能要看議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11758.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11779.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以在這個原住民這個部分我想今天我們期待能夠有幾個部分就是我剛才講的資源的這個分配那也請注意一下原鄉那當然原鄉會跟一些私校目前就越來越沒有的這一個整體性的狀態可能也會有很大的衝擊跟影響那除了整體性那是不是可以請會裡面及早注意到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11781.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11805.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
第二部分是花東包括中央山脈空間的部分其實原鄉很多縱使現在整個社會不太一樣但是原鄉的這個空間還是值得大家關注的還有早上有聽到火箭的發射或者是什麼東西的發射要在原鄉這我還是先提醒一下在環境上可不可以在這個環境的衝擊幫我們都做一些評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11807.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11827.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
第3個部分是有沒有可能考量一下具有原住民身份的：剛才主委這邊已經同意了那我這個部分就請會裡面注意一下原住民族身份的這個申請者跟非原身份的申請者比例可不可以幫我們配置一下感謝主委早上剛才的一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11828.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11852.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
最後可不可以增加一個原住民族的社會永續科技發展平台計畫因為我們也很想知道現在AI的發展然後STEM的議題我相信很多年輕人現在應該很具備這方面的潛力如果我們祖先的集體智慧的遺傳傳承是在我們血脈裡面的話我想這個部分應該有機會做到這樣一個可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11852.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11853.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11871.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11889.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
最後一點我只是提醒一下有關於我們會裡面跟運科中心的這樣一個結合我們知道會裡面當然比較著重在研究這個部分運科中心教育部的體育署下面的運科中心當然可能是針對運動員 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11892.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11906.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
有沒有可能在這個溝通的平台上那會裡面這邊可不可以多注意一下單項協會或許現在還不是大家都知道的明星型選手但是在過程當中與他們成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11907.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11931.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
然後針對台灣目前已有的單項協會的選手可不可以做量身定做的相關研究那這個平台可能要非常常常的溝通然後會裡面可能可以找到相關研究的人在這個部分做一些挹注那我想這樣子的平台的結合才不會各行其事會更有效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11933.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11950.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
謝謝 這個我們會來做的確我們這個運動科學的專案他是在比較上中有的一些research那事實上也會推到下面包括運動員 傑出的運動員還有一般老百姓那那個教育部的運動中心我們也會來跟他密切聯繫就讓他接軌 這個應該是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11953.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11954.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
林倩啟委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11969.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11982.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好 主委請回那我們接下來請羅明財委員羅明財羅明財委員不在我們請顏寬恒委員顏寬恒顏寬恒委員不在接下來我們請邱志偉委員質詢謝謝主席 有請吳主委好 有請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11999.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12021.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
邱委員好重大的資安的議題也是國會主要的業務之一那個昨天美國眾議院這個壓倒性通過要求這個TikTok必須跟中國的這個母公司必須要切割 如果不切割的話我就禁用 列畫法的 台灣能不能比照辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12022.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12046.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那個就是我早上有提到事實上美國國情跟台灣當然不完全一樣那的確那個TikTok對於這個假訊息的傳播他是非常有效的那我想我們也會因為之前我們有在這個公部門是有禁止不過我想針對美國的這個美國是全面禁用因為你不切割的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12048.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12064.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
因為那個也不是國科會完全但是我們會待會行政院來進一步來研議所以站在國科會主管資安議題的這個角度來看你個人是贊成美國做法我國科會沒有主管資安議題有參與其中是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12065.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12084.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
因為我現在佈局就是說資安相關的科技研究包括後量子密碼Whatever是國科會那美國如果參議院通過拜登簽署就真是他有拘束力他有要求其他的盟邦其他的友好的國家比較辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12086.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12086.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
國產化的成本太高 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12114.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12130.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
國產化的學習期間比較長所以這種國產化的成本比較高那當然你這個所有開發商我就選擇跟其他的比較便宜的這個廠商來合作韓國、印度或是美國這樣你要怎麼達成國產化?國科會有什麼想法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12134.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12148.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
李安豐電現在經濟部在主導那我當然覺得因為當初一開始我有參與國產化也是一個我們的目標就是說除了發電以外相關後續的產業臺灣的廠商要有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12151.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12178.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那這個我會來有機會因為你這個國產的話代表說這個上中下游這個產業鏈的形成嘛會帶動這個你說北部有一個基地南部有一個基地透過這兩個雙引擎能帶動這個離岸風電相關的產業的發展嘛結果你現在北部可能做得還好北部我不曉得是做真還做假的你知道我意思喔南部沒頂端你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12179.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12200.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
哇 這個我來瞭解一下你可能要跟政府再協調一下 沒聽到他就沒辦法繼續維持他沒辦法維持整個就斷鏈了那些當初找進來的這些所謂離岸風靈國家隊親和一看是那個中鋼成立的那個公司嘛新的海基就是在我選區嘛我知道我知道我有去我去好幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12201.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12212.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
另外這個AI生成式AI的興起當然我們不能不重視這個現象當然我們要做一些做準備你AI的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12213.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12214.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
韓國大型語言模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12238.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12249.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
如果建立出來之後 你要落地 落地你要做任何的這個 包括說律師業各行各業 你要做fine tuning這部分好像 經濟部好像也沒有 啊 習慣搞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12251.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12273.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
沒關係 作為資深的立委還是要遵守這個法院的時間各報案件 這個問題我希望說把這個FindTune的這個成本把它降低 這個可能國會會 您知道我在講的內容我知道那個才對FindTune降低之後你才能落地去做各個行業的試用 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12275.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12289.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以這個我認為要從公佈引擎開始那個齁我們那個對話引擎就是那個Trustworthy Air Dialog Engine我們叫台德引擎事實上就要降低業界拿去的成本那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12290.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12318.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
謝謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12320.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12334.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
謝謝邱志偉委員吳志偉請坐我們再來請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜蔡易瑜委員不在我們請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在好 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12337.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12354.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
關於今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有科智恩委員、葛如君委員、陳秀寶委員、高金素美委員、林倩啟委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議做如下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12355.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12373.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
報告及詢答完畢委員所提的書面質詢及相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報關於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆的部分請相關機關競遂書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12385.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12415.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
議員會議員會議員會議 |