video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/be8492a9d81d8eaba5f63d74df4963a0399d0c714afe65c3d632f63170caf1df5bdf3d81c64cf4bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
委員發言時間 |
12:52:32 - 13:05:23 |
影片長度 |
771 |
會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議(事由:一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、交通部民用航空局局長、桃園國際機場股份有限公司董事長、中華航空股份有限公司董事長及桃園航勤股份有限公司董事長就「如何強化遭遇顯著危害天氣現象之飛航安全與人力配置暨如何落實地面勤務之安全規範」進行專題報告,並備質詢。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於交通部民用航空局單位預算。
三、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於交通部主管交通作業基金-民航事業作業基金分預算。
四、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於交通部主管桃園國際機場股份有限公司營業預算。
【本日僅進行詢答】【11月18日、20日二天一次會】) |
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謝謝主席,麻煩有請部長還有桃基董事長好,陳部長、楊董兩位好,之前我就關心過我們的三航廈的標案裡面出現一個惡名昭彰的廠商叫李力 |
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那當然我用惡名昭彰這個詞聽起來是有點重但是過去的敗行劣跡我在好幾次的質詢當中也一路追蹤下來但我覺得我們國家的制度非常奇怪這種欺騙國人甚至騙到我們經濟部莫名其妙給他一個獎結果在美國的死機全部都是造假的公司竟然屢屢在我國拿到重要的表案 |
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全體國人看的是目瞪口呆這家公司到底是什麼後台後台這麼硬一直拿到莫名其妙的表案上一次有請教部長這件事部長也說你會回去查我後來就陸陸續續收到交通部的一些回函的檢討措施那我們就一樣一樣來看第一個 |
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回答的是說那一次的整個招標決標評選完全合法那我看了這個結論我看了就非常的訝異就要趕快再進一步拜讀這種詐騙的廠商拿到標案是怎麼樣如果整個程序都合法還會讓這種詐騙的廠商得逞那問題嚴重了 |
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等於是我們合法的程序都攔阻不下來這種詐騙的廠商知識體大進一步看說那個時候去提出來的時機就因為要審查他的資格、他的能力、他的時機我看你們回答的內容是台鐵行控4.0 |
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問題是台鐵行供4.0我之前在質詢運安會的時候運安會說的是什麼啊那東西根本不能用啊那我的問題就來了我們一個重要的標案要評選廠商前面要有時機嘛他提出來的時機啊是一個爛得不得了的時機啊連運安會的主委啊都說啊這根本不能用那所以我們在評選的時候是什麼 |
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看paperwork前面只要有標案這樣就算數了部長你覺得呢委員您在提醒的這個我也覺得是有問題所以我才會認為說要再精進所以我們回覆您的內容裡面其實對於未來的評選的方式應該要再精進如果用現在的方式沒有辦法杜絕不好的廠商進來的話我們未來必然要精進說得很好喔 |
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今天部長在備詢的時候肯說出這的確有問題代表的是什麼最起碼還願意誠實面對問題這是非常重要的第一步誠實面對問題以後要怎麼解決問題我們接下來才要繼續看來T3運輸系統可能部長所講的未來要精進的部分對於這一種重要的 |
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系統技術譬如說行車管理系統以後要單獨評選嘛就不要全部混在一起嘛全部混在一起裡面重要的部分沒有單獨評選混水摸魚就過去嘛這一點我是認同的我們再往下看這個案子啊履行到現在那個包商是分包計畫你們還沒有核定他們就對外宣稱已經核定了是有出現這樣的狀況嗎 |
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我所知道應該還沒核定吧對啊我知道還沒有核定嘛但是部長你看一下我附的你們的會議紀錄警告那個包商啊不要對外宣稱已經經過建造單位核定以免產生爭議嘛那你會寫這樣的文字代表的是什麼代表是他們已經在外面放話啦警告他們啊不要這樣幹 |
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但我看實際上面的過程從2023年12月決標到現在分包計畫書到目前還在協調是這樣嗎 |
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309.961 |
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現在在送審當中是不是我請總經理可以可以可以那個請熟的人上來回答這個問題好了啦就是我沒有要為難部長的意思我們解決問題比較重要是跟委員報告目前這個分包計畫是由陳公司還在檢討那最近有提不是啦我現在的困惑就是從絕標到現在分包計畫搞了快一年了搞了快一年還在檢討這樣到底來得及來不及啊 |
transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.929 |
transcript.whisperx[12].end |
317.314 |
transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我現在具體的問阿到時候時間到了這個系統真的能用嗎因為以我目前在看阿整個進度阿緩慢的不得了那為什麼會緩慢的不得了 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.653 |
transcript.whisperx[13].end |
368.152 |
transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為錯誤一開始就造成了嘛你在挑選的時候挑了一個莫名其妙的廠商進來當然後面問題一堆嘛現在看起來是問題越來越嚴重啊我左眼的事情啊是除了剛剛部長所講的承認有問題要檢討問題之外下一個是那目前的這個問題到底要怎麼解決那我看目前的進度是這個樣子我們再往下看 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
369.355 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
388.382 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
目前提交的車輛行車管理系統的設計文件缺乏完整系統架構也沒有充分對應到你的需求那這樣還走得下去嗎這樣還走得下去嗎國家重要的建設挑到一個爛廠商出現這樣的狀況 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
393.893 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
401.87 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
行車管理系統的設計文件沒有完整的系統架構也沒有辦法符合業主就是你們的需求嘛那這樣怎麼辦 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
404.409 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.229 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是我想跟委員報告目前目前的這個階段是處於細部設計的階段那按照里程碑成玉公司也在上週五提出了他的細部設計的成果目前在由我們的顧問團隊審查中我們會依照這個審查的結果來進行後續的處理所以你們到目前進度都還是on schedule嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.493 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
450.239 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
目前這個階段是按原計劃的里程碑在進行當中所以都還沒有直言對於應該這樣講他有按里程碑交出這個成果但是這個成果的好與壞我們顧問公司正在做嚴格的審查所以我才貼給你看嘛是9月12號的會議紀錄啊 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
452.777 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.003 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
提出來的東西根本沒有辦法符合你們的需求現在就已經預見了後續的細部設計跟測試將發生整合的困難這全部都是你們交的文件 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.581 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.718 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告委員這個是9月12號是由機場公司這邊的會議所以我們的確在那個階段已經看到廠商的設計內容的品質的問題所以預先請他要做檢討那他現在是11月15號已經提出完整的結果那當然我們就會依據他的內容的品質再來做審查來我們先看齁10月29號 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.22 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
508.079 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
接下來有履約管理會議那就是你剛剛所講的在11月14號以前完成所有細部設計提供審查你們之前在11月19號的時候說在文件的數量跟品質上都有落差 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.721 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
524.509 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
跟國際上面的標準對安全議題的分析顯有不足嗎現在這些問題都解決了嗎包委員這個就是我們在歷次的一個相關會議裡面包含我們的顧問這些的意見都是我們的顧問團隊所看到 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.51 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
529.371 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我這樣講好了啦你們前面啊在挑選廠商的時候沒有嚴格把關接下來後面就是一堆爛攤子 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
556.175 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
581.779 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
後面就是一堆爛攤子我收到的檢舉是什麼我收到的檢舉是說目前這個李立這個詐騙廠商現在是要讓工程會去施壓要陳韻跟他和解是不是有收到這樣的消息嗎沒有收到這樣的消息目前陳韻是不是希望把他換成工研院 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.77 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
600.101 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前我們有得到承運的一個提出的請求他要把工研院再加到他的團隊裡面來事實上就是要工研院去做之前那個爛廠商該做的工作啦把他加進來沒有把他踢出去 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
601.298 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
628.987 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這完全就是在程序上面搞的技巧嘛明眼人一看就知道了嘛那現在他提出這樣子的申請你們會同意嗎包委員我想這個部分有一些會涉及到原來契約的一些要求的分工跟執行的內容跟相關採購法的規定所以這個部分也在我們審查的範圍這我了解啦其實將心比心站在你們的位置上 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
630.049 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
650.724 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我知道你們很痛苦因為連我在思考這件事情我都不知道你們要怎麼收拾這個爛攤子你讓他換那大家就會質疑你前面的評選公不公平你不讓他換他又沒有能力做下去那掩護的是我們整個機場的工程整個T3運輸的品質 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
655.131 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
676.407 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
大家現在會痛苦就是因為這樣的事情我向來的立場我從來不介入私人廠商彼此之間的紛爭廠商之間私人要怎麼處理是廠商的事但是我們站在國家的立場遇到這種爛事遇到這種爛事最後就是全民來承擔嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
678.174 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
686.207 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
最後就是全民來承擔了我們現在面臨到的狀況就是這個樣子但是回到部長一開始所講的有問題但檢討到現在沒有人要負責嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
692.699 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
721.921 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是嗎 部長保委員 程序上以現在的結論看當時的程序可能有檢討的問題那我們現在也在精進就是對未來如果有類似的案件我們當然要精進那另外就是我也有特別要求雖然這件事情有發生這些的這個過程但是我還是要求桃機公司在整個T3航廈未來的整個運輸系統不能夠去delay到不能夠延遲到這是我對桃機系統的要求桃機公司的要求 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
722.281 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
739.365 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
部長你的要求大家都聽到了啦我也不希望會發生delay的狀況但萬一到時候發生delay的狀況的話責任追究就很辛苦啦我最後只有跟交通部跟桃機有一個具體的要求這種詐騙廠商該負的責任要他負 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
744.512 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
767.606 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
該負的責任要他負沒有道理在這個過程裡面整個國家的利益因為前面的錯誤造成了犧牲結果最後付出代價的是全體國人而不是這個有問題的廠商這個立場跟這個原則一定要堅守住部長可不可以承諾好 這個部分沒有問題OK 好一定會依法來辦理謝謝委員 |
IVOD_ID |
157185 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157185 |
日期 |
2024-11-20 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-10 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
2 |
會議資料.會次 |
10 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2024-11-20T12:52:32+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2024-11-20T13:05:23+08:00 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |