| IVOD_ID |
15718 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15718 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-13T08:30:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-13T13:24:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:53:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685d26331c83256afb89e2506b9d78cd73c3be8d109af184be4ad9dee8e7ce717095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【3月13日及14日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:31 - 13:24:00 |
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1809.392 |
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出席委員已逐法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年3月7日星期四9時至13時12分 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1813.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1834.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員陳昭芝等15人列席委員王宏偉等20人列席官員衛生福利部部長薛瑞元等相關人員主席王兆吉委員玉敏宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請衛生福利部部長中央健康保險署食品藥物管理署就健保藥價調整藥廠停產慢性病用藥製因應作為進行專題報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1840.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1866.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本次會議由衛生福利部部長報告後委員陳昭芝等23人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長及各相關主管等及其答覆委員楊耀及楊瓊英所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於2週內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從其所定通過臨時提案6項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1870.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1890.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處沒有那議事錄確定本日會議議程為邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況並備質詢那現在我們介紹在場的委員王振旭委員陳昭芝委員陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1900.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1926.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
如現役委員現場今天來我們列席的官員有勞動部部長許明春許部長勞動力發展署蔡猛良署長勞工保險局白立貞局長勞動基金運用局蘇玉清局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1928.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1951.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
職業安全衛生署周子蓮署長勞動及職業安全衛生研究所李伯昌所長綜合規劃司王厚誠司長勞動關係司王厚偉司長勞動保險司陳美女司長勞動福祉退休司謝倩倩司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1954.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1969.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
勞動條件及就業平等司黃維琛司長勞動法務司傅惠芝司長秘書處丁玉珍處長人事處江碧玲處長政風處邱鴻達處長會計處林美信處長統計處梅嘉源處長資訊處劉純 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1982.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1994.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
留存坤處長才團法人職業災害預防及重建中心執行長和俊傑和執行長好那接下來請勞動部部長許部長報告時間5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2001.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2030.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席各位委員先進各位記者女士先生大家好感謝貴委員會的邀請由本人向委員們進行本部業務報告進行各位委員給予指教在勞動情勢方面112年度勞動力人數較前一年同期增加9萬人就業人數增加11萬人失業率下降0.19個百分點男性與女性的勞參率差距減少0.3個百分點全體經常性的薪資增加了百分之0.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2032.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2032.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
一致一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2052.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2074.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
此外針對契格行業的減班休息勞工推動僱用安定措施提供最長6個月的薪資補貼並且與內政部合作實施在台移工以再次申請聘僱及居留整合服務預期每年受益的僱主及移工約有20萬人接下來依照本部三大施政目標回顧過去一年到現在的重要施政成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2075.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2090.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
為了協助青年就業我們持續推動投資青年就業方案第二期去年到現在已經協助了226000多人至於在提升中高齡及高齡勞動力方面協助大概207000人就業另外在今年的2月發布55plus |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2092.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2093.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
獲得獲得獲得 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2117.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2124.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們也透過多元方式提供在職勞工或失業者需要的就業訓練服務去年到現在合撥了26萬5000餘張的技術事證並且鼓勵青少年學習技能 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2131.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2155.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
去年第二屆亞洲技能競賽中我國獲得了十二金六銀四桶三優勝的好成績同時我們也持續結合民間團體的力量推動多元就業方案及賠率就業計畫創造在地就業的機會並且持續推動移工政策強化移工的權益保障到現在已經核准了近兩萬四千名資深移工轉任中階技術工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2156.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2177.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外為了加強保障基層勞工維持生活水準於上會期完成制定最低工資法並於今年1月1日開始上路專法將使最低工資的審議制度更為完善周延在強化職場性騷擾方面配合性別平等工作法的修正本部完成了7項執法的訂修 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2177.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2202.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
後續將會加強職場性騷擾防治教育訓練及宣導穩健落實相關的防治工作並為了建構安心的職場環境除了補助453家企業提供托兒設措施提高育嬰津貼及薪資補助措施讓236,000多位的新手爸媽受惠我們持續推動創造勞資雙贏的良性制度除了積極輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2204.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2209.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
並且鼓勵勞資雙方簽訂團體協約同時建置了超過700名的勞動教育專業人員資料庫作為各界推動勞動教育的實質參考期盼能使勞動意識持續上下扎根 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2220.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2227.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
接著在確保勞工退休生活經濟安全方面,勞退救濟的足額提撥率已達到99.8%,勞退薪資提繳人數已達751萬4千多人,自願提繳人數達到106萬4千多人,勞動基金累計收益數為2兆1千 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2237.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2259.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一百三十四議員累計收益率為百分之五十三點五三四年化收益率為百分之五點三六此外勞工職業安全也一直是本部重視的重點工作我們除了持續辦理各項檢查以外並採行輔導及法尊房事等措施每年也針對中小企業高風險企業及3K特定製程產業執行臨場房事輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2263.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2279.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
並且加強推動營造工程的減災機制以及持續列管容易發生火災爆炸的石化及大型化學工廠等場所在保障職災勞工及其家屬基本經濟生活方面去年職災保險現金給付共合幅9萬4千多件醫療給付為143萬2千多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2284.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2310.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其次我們持續擴充職業傷病診治服務網絡至今年起職災職能復健專者醫院擴增為36家職災職能復健身心理強化機構擴增為22家提供3萬人次以上的職業傷病診治及相關的復工服務展望未來本部除了持續推動提升中高齡及高齡者與婦女勞動參與以及強化青年救援協助外人家積極回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2311.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2312.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
以上報告 敬請各位委員指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2334.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2348.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝部長有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報接下來開始做以下的宣告本會委員尋答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘10點30分截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2355.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2371.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息10分鐘原則上11點30分處理臨時提案10點30分截止收案那現在請登記第一位委員陳昭芝委員有請部長及安署州署長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2385.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2407.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
部長好貼實認證是我國根據職業安全衛生法令等辦理的一個合格驗證證明那只有符合標準的這個機械設備甚至防爆管配件才可以在我國的石化工廠或電廠內的高危險區來使用目的是讓這些工廠發生危險的時候能夠把災害控制到一個範圍內但是2018年的時候我們當委員有 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2412.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2420.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
臺電的大林場它的高風險場區使用的防暴管材有使用到東元系統的安博產品那那個產品是偽造臺灣TS認證的部長您還記得這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2426.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2445.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
就是當時臺電有要求同胞商這現代樂鐵跟榮工公司把這個所有不合格的產品要做一個更換但是臺電也有提出對這個同胞商提出要求就是要求使用所謂的可斷鑄鐵這個材質來作為這個防爆管配件那我先把這個背景跟部長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2448.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2455.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這一家廠商叫做深芳公司他也有許多防爆管配件的這個也向職安署登錄取得這個TS認證但是我要強調是他眾多產品當中只有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2461.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2478.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
可斷鑄鐵的材質有TS認證他的效期有3年部長根據那個職業安全衛生法的規定是不是只有經過測試檢定而且在職安署的網站上去登錄的你才可以在銷售的時候宣稱說你是具有這個TS認證我這個說法正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2481.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2484.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們製造輸入使用我們指定的機械設備必須取得安全標準才可以來做實施,因為我們有管理系統和制製來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2497.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2510.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那下一張就是我前面提到2019 2019臺電大臨場因為需要因為不合格嘛再更換這個防爆這個氣管材的時候這家生方公司他明明知道自己取得ts認證的產品只限於這個鑄鐵合金 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2515.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2537.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是他在送審的這個產品的送審證書上寫的注鐵合金但實際成分是球末注鐵以後交貨也會是球末注鐵當然我們沒有否定球末注鐵也許他的材質是更好的但是他可以這樣濫用他的貼紙證照嗎就是說他合什麼是什麼他可以拿別的東西來抵嗎當然不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2538.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2549.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我們都知道部長說是不行這個灰口鑄鐵可斷鑄鐵或這個球木鑄鐵他完全不同的材質所以生方拿出這樣證書交給台電還好台電當時覺得有點問題是沒有採購但是我要談的是台電沒有採購但是廠商可以這樣做嗎所以就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2558.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2578.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
上個月底我的辦公室同仁也有到職安署大林電廠去檢查去參與這個檢查那麼現場台電也承認說當時是有接到這樣的文件那部長你何時要依法去裁罰呢就是廠商這樣的做法何時要去裁罰呢因為這個部分229我們去查 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2580.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2593.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
確實是有一些異議目前是在請台電公司要提供相關的合約部長這個去年就有立委檢舉了很久了但是我們都有按照程序要進行詳細我請署長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2597.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2619.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我跟您簡單解釋因為大林電廠是舊的電廠它是用原來是用美規的標準來做設置跟施工的製造那我們慈安法在103年開始試用的時候有關我們是用新的歐規的標準所以這兩個標準在融合過程中臺電大林電廠用既有的標準在設置那現在是依照用電用戶建設裝置規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2622.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2649.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
來做進步的釐清我們勞動部會跟經濟部做進步更化設計安裝的設備做有效來做確認這一次的重點就是像申方他認證的配管件因為他的效期是3年那他會不會一併到其他的地方中油啦台塑啦中頂公司也是用同樣的證明文件去處理你要不可以一併謝謝委員其實包括原來的委員跟您非常關心這個我非常非常感謝因為在 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2650.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2667.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
|
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2667.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2697.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2697.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2698.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
對不起委員可不可以插個話 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2721.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2749.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個部份是不是在防暴區因為我剛才跟委員解釋大聯想是用舊的美規標準設施規劃所以我現在就請經濟部做進一步的釐清如果這個區塊是真的需要屬於防暴區的話當然台電這個部份就要做比較明確的違反規定就是說那一天台電說要去帶大家去看防暴區啦說該處使用需要符合防暴標準的防暴管材那參加抽驗的人都有職安署官員啊公研院的專家在 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2750.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2750.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
是他是這麼說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2780.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2782.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
部長這個職聘這個是移工職聘的部分首次招募右邊是這個再次招募重新招募你看那個職聘的比率這10年來離1%很遙遠的0.2% |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2797.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2815.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
然後對於重新這個招募的部分這個理論上說移工工作滿3年僱主要繼續聘照理說他們有經驗了那應該還要再發這個仲介費嗎我是說他們為什麼職域也是1%所以部長勞動部雖然說職聘是你的既定政策但是效果不好嗎是不是對對效果不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2816.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2836.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那效果在上次我質詢也有提出來那後來就有專家就是所謂的前勞發署跨國勞動力管理組組長薛建忠他指出說整個職聘有三大難關移工人選難密、語言密不通、申請程序繁複部長您同意這三個是一個障礙或難關嗎?部長您同意這三點? |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2837.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2855.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個因為是我們之前組長他是這個主辦的人他應該是很瞭解的其實我知道勞動部很努力但是就是說我們看看哪一些可以再繼續做得更好難關一人選難密部長現在問題是有移工團體指控他們到就業服務站 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2855.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2873.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我說全臺灣都有就業服戰他不只幫外國本國人沒有也有幫助外籍外移工但是移工到了現場你看他們他到現場沒有僱主來他要他簽到因為如果不簽到的話他就會被強制反國那這個就是他簽到但是到了他們問僱主在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2874.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2891.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那個工作人員竟然說你們要自己找那不像求職的時候你這個人事部叫你來面試那你說面試官呢沒有面試官面試官你要自己去104這個銀行網站找這個這樣這個就業服務站只簽名不媒合這樣可以嗎部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2892.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2917.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這當然不行所以移工抗議了嘛這個我們改變好不好改進好不好了解一下也要針對這些缺失來具體來講一下那因為還有兩個點一個是言語不通啦那這個就是說我們知道全臺灣總共有48座就業服務中心如果要提供這個媒合可能要有雙語服務部長你知道這48座就業服務中心有幾家是提供的四國雙語服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2920.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2941.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們其實現在就是在各就福站透過三方有兩家一個桃園一個在彰化去年成立的我覺得這個很棒這是專設的但是我們其實各就福站都可以透過三方的一個因為我們現在還在談職聘中心怎麼來鼓勵那一年當中大概有多少移工會轉換雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2943.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2960.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
大概有多少位要轉換雇主會需要這樣的服務大概兩萬多兩萬多每年大概有兩萬多那因為這樣的兩座老實說48座裡面兩座這樣子是不是說這種算是很好的服務是不是可能再考慮再擴大一下那最後沒問題我們這兩座是先示範謝謝謝謝部長的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2965.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2979.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好那最後一個是身體法上次我在質詢就是說執聘手續非常的繁複啊簡直像這個玩大地遊戲我覺得玩大風吹他進進出出很多的機構但是這個勞動部已經做到了一個部分點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2981.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3003.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
高雄跟長高雄的桃園高高雄成立一站式服務我覺得很棒的內動內政部勞動部跨跨服務的跨部會合作這種就是最便民的一個做法這個一站式的服務啊移工可以在這裡中心接受三天兩夜的這個講習來來瞭解在臺灣生活需知啊為衛生保健還有勞動權益等等那雇主這邊可以一次性的辦好對 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3004.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3005.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝陳昭芝委員接下來我們請陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3032.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3056.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
主席主席各位同事媒體朋友還有各位官員大家早安我想請部長請部長部長剛剛陳昭之委員講的所有的問題我上禮拜有問你有一本移工管理及調查報告每年都會出一本您上禮拜說您沒有看請問這週您看了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3061.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3074.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我會來看我會來看報告委員因為同仁都會整給我啦因為那個報告有時候我比較沒有時間他們都會把重點載入給我好可以你太忙了但是焦志偉人剛剛講的所有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3075.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3089.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
報告都已經寫了但這些問題已經連續3年沒有改善包括文件繁瑣找不到職聘中心還有招牌越來越少連職聘中心的後面沒有附英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3092.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3108.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
質詢中心的招牌後面沒有英文但是勞動部的後面有英文那個我來看一下如果沒有我們馬上改善應該要這個基本的好謝謝部長因為我上禮拜就說過質詢中心假使沒有發揮您預期的功能的話其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3110.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3134.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
報告委員我們這個真的會來努力因為齁仲介的制度已經大家習慣使用了而且說職聘齁還是有他的困難點不過我們會努力來突破包括程序的繁瑣文件怎麼樣簡化流程怎麼樣讓大家方便這個我們要來努力真的很希望明年不會再看到這個移工管理及調查報告還在反映文件很繁瑣這樣子的問題了那我們來看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3139.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3154.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
您自己公布的同工同酬立法已經兩性平等法已經20年了結果呢女生還是要多工作54天薪資才可以追平男性跟男性平起平坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3156.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3173.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我只要這個是跟2019 2019年蔡英文總統相任的時候一模一樣的天數欸所以我們的總統是女性我們高官勞動部長是女性但是我們經過了8年我們的同工同酬日還是54天 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3175.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3202.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
會不會覺得這個數據是不是我們努力的方向錯了我是覺得我們還在努力不過其實我要跟委員報告我們其實這樣的一個差距相對於美國的17日本的韓國的30我們其實是更平等但是我覺得這個是還有要大大努力的空間不過有時候這個薪資差距主要是來自於所謂性別職業的隔離那這個部分就是跨部會要努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3203.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3228.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那這個就是要透過教育啦職業訓練來改善我們等一下來看另外一個數據好除了我們的薪資落後喔這個薪資差距這個也是您發布的我們算是27個國家排名中第20名倒數第8名所以臺灣每一位男性勞動者每個月平均收入是61150元女性勞動者平均每個月49809元每個月會少11341 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3232.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3234.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
一年就少了13點6萬報告委員這個他這個統計是統計前段班的部分我們是在前段班的排名我們不是說整個全世界我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3248.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3259.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
最差不是這樣子他是取前段班那我們的排名在我懂我們需要更好所以我們過去8年其實是沒有進步過去8年沒有進步但您剛講到說這個選工作科系學歷但我跟部長update一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3270.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3292.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
最新的數據有110年其實50歲以下的女性他讀大專的比例已經高過男性了但當然在研究所的比例男性還是高過女性如果我們的學金力過去幾十年大幅的提升我們的勞參率還有我們的薪資的差異不是應該也要改善嗎這個我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3296.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3319.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這個應該我們會努力逐年會改善這個部分好所以剛好看到說如果我跟我先生是做一樣的工作但是我已經預期我會少他一萬多又看到新聞時不時可能會有很害怕的這個脫音脫語的虐待等等的事件其實每一個女生想一想算一算自然就不會去參與勞動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3321.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3338.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
但是您這邊也有寫到啊建構友善生養環境促進雇主提供子女托育及工作平衡措施如果你這些沒有跟上的話我們怎麼可能可以改善我們的勞資差異呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3339.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3356.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以我們一直都在各項的友善的育兒措施或設施都一直努力在推啦好我們等一下來看一下你其他的KPI從國內來看呢過去10年喔剛講過去8年我們從100年到110年兩性的勞參率的差距只有從16%降到15%欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3367.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3377.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一趴十年降了一趴差距還是非常的巨大從這個數據來看我真的很難看出勞動部這個業務報告有什麼很明顯的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3385.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3404.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
當然因為在國內還是女性有時候會因為育兒婚育照顧的因素會離開不過我們這幾年一直在針對女性的就業的一些促進的措施那我們等一下再來看我們會持續來努力因此我們的在就業狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3406.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3421.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
剛您提到再就業嘛因為他們育兒啊進入家庭所以對他們而言最重要就是當他們中斷了一長個時間以後他們願意再回職場的這樣意願高不高嘛我們圈起來看女性不管哪一國臺灣日本韓國高點就是25到29歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3425.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3452.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
但是台灣在29歲以後一路往下滑日本跟韓國在45到49 50到54都有兩個高點所以我們要看女性幫你們圈起來了紅色這邊50歲以後的就業率65%46 26我們跟日本韓國比起來真的太丟臉了我們是不到人家的二分之一甚至不到接近三分之一耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3454.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3465.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
的確在國內我們的女性勞參與在101年首次突破50%以後然後一直穩定成長了112年51.93那基本上25到29的勞參與大概九成可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3471.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3487.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
三十歲以後就逐年下降吼所以表示臺灣女生就沒有雙峰國外有雙峰吶所以我們現在也跟尾巴我們有去年就推那個婦女二度就業那去年推薦的人次有兩萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3488.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3506.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
婦女在就業計畫一年花3.5億三年要花10.5億結果你幫自己訂的KPI是女性勞動力三年增加14萬好請問你這個女性勞動力不就包括全部的女生嗎你有特別把二度就業挑出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3508.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3516.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這是二度就業喔這是再就業報告委員這不是全體這是針對二度就業你要再增加14萬人對對對這是新的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3521.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3542.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我想問一下你這個KPI是不是應該重新調整因為我們在沒有這個就業計畫的時候105到108年自然成長的女性就業就已經12萬了對但你如果要特別把它挑出來的話你這些表格應該要分成在就業率在就業的人還有對 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3544.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3559.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
剛講到薪資嘛我們不能只看這個kpi只看數字因爲他現在連薪資都非常的不平等所以你應該要仔細把你的kpi去分析我這些二度在就業他的薪資結構是高的是中的是低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3561.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3585.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
是嗎?不然你如果是低的在就這個薪資比較低的在就業率幫他媒合的是優質的職缺啦其實剛剛我跟委員講我們那個KPI其實有跨部會大家討論那因為這個部分是二度就業婦女那我們會考慮這種狀況當然我們也希望能夠把那個人數KPI再提高不過我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3586.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3612.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們會滾動檢討啦一定會滾動檢討我是很希望啦在這邊給部長一個建議請您回去要稍微調整一下這個KPI因為你如果光是解決人數或是比例或是勞動力的話你沒有辦法解決你明年發布同工同酬日還是54天的問題那個同工同酬其實跟這個不一定是有相關聯我剛剛講的就是說這個其實要從整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3616.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3629.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我希望你們還是可以稍微把你們這些在就業的人或是初次就業的人要稍微分層一下不然你們永遠找不出這些問題在哪裡好謝謝陳委員接下來我們請盧憲一委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3656.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3656.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
有請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3667.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3684.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
大概查了資料就是在投資青年就業方案這個部分大概在3年的時間花了133億可是我們的整體的青年的失業率還是在超過兩倍未達預期目標請問部長這問題出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3687.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3705.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
報告委員我們剛剛講的那個是第一期的投資青年就業方案因為全世界都一樣青年的失業率都高於全體國人的這個失業率那過去我記得數據曾經到10點12%所以我們其實在推第一年的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3708.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3725.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
投資青年方案之後這個失業率是有降下來而且我們從10.76降到8.38跟委員報告這中間還報告三年的疫情喔照理說如果疫情的時候其實可能青年失業率會更高但是我們反而是這樣我們有好幾個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3730.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3757.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好我們有在學的離校的各種計劃就針對15到29歲的青年所以我們的目標是要兩倍以內嗎對不對目標是這樣當初是希望但是委員因為也碰到疫情所以這個請委員特別能夠來理解在原住民的一些教育訓練方面連續大概1234年的部分他的最主要他 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3758.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3782.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
不滿意的就是他的無法配合到執訊上課的時間也是說這4年裡面永遠問題第一名都是這個那既然都是這個的話為什麼不去調整上課的時間呢為什麼一直都是第一名報告委員我記得好不好我這個我可以來再瞭解我記得我們各分署會針對我們原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3783.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3811.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那個老公朋友會有專班專班的職業訓練所以應該他的上課時間我在想應該大部分都是6日對不對我在想啦我不知道這個沒關係對可是因為既然沒有辦法配合的話你應該要調整那個上課時間這個會報告委員這個我來請齁同源他們來做改善第二個也是蠻高的就是沒有想要參加的課程所以你是不是應該先做一個類似像調查他們想要上什麼課才開那樣的課 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3812.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3818.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
目前公部門他有些應該是應該要足以運用原住民的他還是有一些地方是缺15還有缺16的這個部分希望你能夠去了解為什麼他們沒有辦法達到好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3843.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3864.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
好,這個我來瞭解一下,我請同仁來瞭解目前做得最好,全國做得最好是桃園市就原住民就業這個部分那我希望如果你覺得桃園市現在的數據是桃園市最好的話你們應該去參考桃園市是怎麼做的然後再推廣到全省這樣,可以嗎?可以,會後來瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3865.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3894.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
現在一直在做多元就業開發方案也就是說希望留住在地的青年來培育我們或者是中老年的一些在地就業目前我看到的一個比較好的一個是叫沙老部落我們這樣念他的主語叫沙道我看到的是他原本是沒有一個遊客可以造訪那個地區經過他們的努力一年可以超過400人也就是說可能就產生一些超過60萬台幣的一個產值就可以養活在地的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3895.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3909.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3909.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3929.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我們最後來萬美指可一下目前南韓的那個最低薪資是在OECD的排名是這樣子是在不是在前面是在等於是在十幾名如果這樣子看12345678913名那13名的最低薪資遠高於我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3930.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3931.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
報告委員我們其實去年年底已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3947.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3957.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
通過最低工資法那未來我們在最低工資的審議的時候會有專家先提出研究的報告那勞資政學雙方也會在討論的時候會斟酌各種這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3962.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3987.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個我們的數據啦吼相關的一些我給你看一下南海是295元那個南海的消費水準讓我們三倍是啦那不過我們不會看這個我們還是看數據嘛對對對啊我們的我們現在像我們的時薪是到183吶吼那就是以我們消費水平跟南海的比較我們應該不會比較厲害他們的薪資已經到達這樣的一個程度他們的醫生還要罷工 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3988.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4007.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那如果說我們相對就我們這樣的心智的話我們是不是應該都有罷工的權利我希望還是省省的思考一個機制這個提升勞工的心智是我們一直要努力的目標我們會持續來努力那我們再做一些先進國家的一個年收入跟月收入一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4009.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4026.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
而在這裡面只有新加坡有在這個比較下面的排名也就是說新加坡的一個如果是就月收入來說已經到達5600美金是目前我們台灣如果換算台幣的話是17萬這是他平均的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4026.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4045.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
獲得的收入不是最高跟最低所以我們還是要檢討我們為什麼國內的收入是普遍低於我們之前可以相並比的四小龍可以嗎親自的提高其實跨部會大家一起來努力本以各自的選擇來朝這個目標來邁進 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4057.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4086.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我因為還有一點時間我還是希望能夠講一下職業安全的部分那因為在我們知道在桃園尤其是很多工廠的地方有沒有想過如果當時如果發生一些比如說工廠的爆炸啦或者是一些重大的一些職業災害啊有沒有在地可以處理的一個醫療院所因為基本上我知道如果說像桃園的福地也蠻大的如果說全部送到林口常科醫院的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4087.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4116.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那可能會爆量或者是我們所謂的不利桃園醫院所以在沿海地區的一些緊急救治的一些傷患的一些急救站你們有沒有考慮過說要去設置因為它的工廠的密度非常高所以你們在規劃的時候是不是應該要去想說為了防範以後發生的重大意外那你在後送的時候或是緊急處理的時候是不是有一個相對的一個治療點你們有沒有在這樣想 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4116.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4131.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
有有報告委員我們其實現在就是有陸續建置我們的那個整治的專者醫院還有我們的那個網絡醫院那個就是說要真讓用幾公里算還是用幾分鐘算 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4132.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4148.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
好應該是要有一個數據來出來讓我們讓我們的老公朋友能夠安心可以嗎就是盡量進變啦就是我們鼓勵像網絡醫院我們盡量把它擴大就是有有意願要來加入網絡醫院的我們都對那你建制好以後你建制好應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4149.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4175.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4178.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4193.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
謝謝盧憲宜委員接下來請邱政軍委員好我們有請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4198.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4226.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
邱委員好部長我請問一下上週本席才關心過我們勞保2028破產的問題是那我這幾天又看到頭版我們勞保精算出負債13兆465億那我也看了您的這個業務報告根據研議勞工保險財務危機改善因應對策這句話是什麼意思準備有做什麼準備嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4227.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4230.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我想問的是你這個對策是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4254.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4268.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們的對策第一個報告委員我們現在當然就是費率的調整我們每兩年調一次還有這個保費的一個收取也要強化另外就是說我們的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4270.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4283.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
幾副審核要確實從部長上任然後另外就是撥補報告員撥補的部分是目前各界有共識的所以這部分我們先做所以從2020到現在你一直撥補錢從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4288.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4316.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是政府編列預算公務預算撥補另外還有個特別預算我覺得你們應該要有一個好的一個政策出來吧一個方案出來這樣用撥補的永遠都是在撥補那要補到什麼時候那個報告委員其實調整的方向這個就是不會只有撥補這個部分那當然還有其他方面像要來因為這個問題已經講了很久了我希望我們到現在還沒有看到一個具體的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4318.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4341.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
只是說我們會研議改善因應對策那講了那麼久那所謂的政策是什麼我希望部長這邊給我一個明確的說明好嗎好因為我們這樣看齁我們目前看起來只是暫時不會餓死也不會馬上爆發但是長久下來這個問題還是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4344.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4359.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
部長認同我的說法嗎那是不是我們應該在這個時候還有時間我們盡快來處理這個問題包括你這個問題是一定要處理不過就是我剛剛講的這個是一個蠻複雜的工程包括各個勞資團體包括各政黨大家可能對調整的方向調整的面向可能大家還是要有一些溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4370.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4390.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
然後有一定的共識這樣要推可能會比較順因為在我看到這個報告我們自己勞動部精算過2039年以後勞保將會達到這個給付的高峰每年都要給付超過一兆如果是這個而且連續30年你認為我們勞退基金不會破產嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4391.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4404.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
老保老保老保不會破產嗎因為財務的問題啊吼的確就是要去面對了吼那所以但是這個也是政府辦的保險吼政府一定會負起給付的責任不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4406.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4429.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
財務的問題一定要是解決了那當然我們現在我剛講目前波普只是先踏出第一步而已那其他的面向還要去做檢討所以部長一直講說波普波普那波普就是我們的一種改革是嗎波普怎麼會是改革呢波普是調整的面向之一因為我們本來在原來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4430.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4431.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
你覺得撥補要補多少才會平啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4455.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4461.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
當然這個要看整個基金的餘有狀況還有政府的財政狀況希望部長這邊能夠有一個具體的說法跟做法那什麼時候可以給我資料我們一個月提個報告給您 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4478.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4498.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
再來第二個問題我們民洋大火燒出了很多的問題那去年9月我們部長也承諾一個月決議是不是要收回我們產業園區的這個勞檢權那後來周署長也說涉及這個範圍很廣還是要跨部會討論那大概今年初會進一步討論那目前的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4500.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4516.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個行政院有邀集相關部會討論過目前是還沒有這個決定收回的這件事情但是有要求督導的這個機制要更確實然後有關於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4518.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4523.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那我這樣講,如果要說回勞安檢查權,勞動部有沒有盤點過說需要修改的法規有多少?很多,非常多那會不會有困難? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4540.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4541.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我請署長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4561.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4568.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好了我希望勞動部能夠積極一點該收回就要收回那或者是採取用合作的模式研議我們具有可行性的方案來確保我們產業園區和科學園區裡面的工業安全衛生這樣可以嗎?好 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4589.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4612.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那我再問我們非典型勞工要保障這個問題跟訴求其實已經很多年了那我們的賴清德準總統也說過面對臺灣非典型勞工占比已經達到15%了那要強化非典型勞工在薪資工時休假保障等基本勞動權利給予更周延的保障那部長這邊有討論過這個問題嗎過去有 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4618.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4644.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這個部分有關於非典勞工尤其像外送員的部分的權益保障其實一直也是勞動部非常關注的工作重點然後這個部分我們其實在勞動部部分首要從他的權益的安全還有他的薪酬的一個這個權益的這個保障還有包括他的保險我們從這三方面去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4645.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4649.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
一切規劃,那我們也建制他們外送平台跟外送員的對話平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4675.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4678.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
謝謝主席我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4700.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4720.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
部長好部長我今天也是要跟部長討論這個移工的政策啦那前陣子我們看到這個剛結束奧斯卡的頒獎典禮那我們看得到就是說很多電影都是反映現實那有一部電影這個復讀青年我不知道部長有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4720.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4749.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我沒有看過那個我有看稍微看一下大家知道嗎那這個這個背景是在馬來西亞的副都那這個也是反映就是移工移工在當地的一個生活狀況那我們看到就是說在反映到臺灣這邊我們看到就是監察院在去年也有發表一本書就是說一群在臺灣沒有身份的人移工為什麼要失聯那我不知道部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4750.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4761.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
你有看過嗎這本書監察院這本有載入重點有載入重點那我想說藉由今天的這個質詢希望部長針對我們現在所面臨的這個問題就是失聯的移工到目前為止有8萬多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4772.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4798.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
當然部長你有特別提到就是說要鼓勵就是我們鼓勵合法的聘僱放寬機構看護移工等等的做法來改善移工失聯的這個狀況可是我們從監察院的這一本書當中他就提出說移工他在工作中可能遭逢危機或者是求助無門所以只好選擇合法的僱主另謀生路 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4799.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4818.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以我這個我們勞動部跟這個監察院的這個看起來好像互相矛盾我想請教就是勞動部針對這個部分就是說有沒有什麼樣補充說明或者是我們的跨部會合作怎樣來改善這個移工失聯的這個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4818.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4839.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
其實報告委員移工失聯問題那個原因很多啦吼像這邊嚴建山說低薪又滅勞我們講的這個部分當然是其中之一啦吼包括說也說經濟因素啦或者他勞動環境等等這個也都是有那其實在院裡面針對這個問題其實都是召集跨部會在做討論就是說這個對策戰尤其像 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4842.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4857.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
過去3年的疫情造成整個移工失聯人數飆升所以到底要如何把它降下來我們也在前年其實開了好幾次的這個跨部會的會議所以去年是有降下來是 去年有降了從1.96降下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4858.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4870.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
部長你之前說就是鼓勵合法的聘僱然後就引進譬如說這個農業移工需要可能一些更多的這個移工進來幫忙那你們這邊也樂觀其成也開放那可是這樣子的話確實有減少這樣的移工的這個失聯的這個狀況嗎有這個有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4877.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4904.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
其實報告委員因為我們適度的就是把這個名額增加了其實農業外勞農業移工是從那個疫情前我們的6000放到12000放到12000那包括很多失點移工他會跑到民間的營造業過去沒有開放的我們去年也開了所以我覺得合法的聘僱會讓失點的人數因為他可以合法聘僱我想僱主也不要冒險他也不願意去冒險所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4906.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4934.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
將來這個我想這個合法的移工能夠引進之後那再加上我們現在疫情的趨緩的整個邊境管制都解除都可以正常進來我想整個移工失聯的狀況應該會再陸續的降下那針對監察院的這一個報告裡面他還有寫低薪又虐勞那如果真的後面這個狀況的話心知的部分那個報告員主要是家庭家庭的看護工他因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4934.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4954.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
家庭剛剛不適用勞基法其實本國的家庭剛剛一樣也不適用勞基法本國本外籍的勞工通通是平等待遇所以過去只有一萬七所以在前年我們也把它調升到兩萬讓它能夠跟市場的行情比較一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4957.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4984.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這也是慢慢的去解決低薪的問題那當然那還有這個休假的部分過老因為看護工確實24小時所以我們有這個喘息服務我們有喘息服務我們現在他家庭的看護工他一年可以52次就有52天的休息時間那配合喘息服務這個經費都是勞動部支持的所以就是希望能夠改善這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4986.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5013.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
而勞工的這個移工的這個呃過勞的情形吼那再來就是說當然那個虐噢虐勞的問題吼雇主不當對待我們也強化吼檢舉吼我們1955專線也讓我們的移工透過多元的宣傳管道用不同的語言讓他們知道包括現在一再式的服務中心一進來我們就會告訴他你的勞動權益你怎麼求助你的申訴管道通通讓他們知道我想這樣會降低這個吼虐待的一個情勢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5014.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5043.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
其實我們看到臺灣不論是產業移工或者是我們這個家庭看護移工其實他們到臺灣來一方面也是這個滿懷著憧憬希望到這個環境來就是最主要也要賺錢嘛那改善他們母國的可能這個整個經濟狀況那我們希望就是說他來到臺灣整個工作的環境也許需要這個我們這個雇主還有政府這邊要互相 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5044.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5047.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我相信我們大部分的僱主都是善待移工的啦但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5072.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5090.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
也不好還是有些人吼對這個這個我們的移工沒有很吼這個合理的對待吼甚至虐虐待吼我覺得這都不應該啦我覺得說大家可能在心態上觀念上要做一些改變吼就是說雇主你應該他來當然是要賺錢沒有問題但是他也 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5091.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5115.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
幫忙你不管是家庭的一些照顧等等我們應該是一個感恩的心把它當一個家人這樣對待我相信就不會有虐待的問題再來就是在勞動部的部分我們就是透過我們的家庭訪視我們那個訪有訪視員訪查員我們各地方政府我們補助他訪查員就是加強訪查再來就是移工很重要受到虐待他一定要申訴他一定要勇敢站出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5116.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5137.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
你聲述我們一定會查辦到底,一定絕不寬待,用這樣的方式去阻止這個虐待移工的情勢來一再的發生其實我會覺得說這個產業移工的部分可能還沒有那麼嚴重那我覺得說這個看護工的部分是比較嚴重的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5139.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5166.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
對因為第一個就是說薪資可能跟廠工比起來是有一些落差那另外廠工的話他還有工作可能8小時之後是加班就是可以加班嘛有加班費那這個看護工的話他可能也沒有這樣的一個加班費可以請領所以有很多看護工其實他一段時間之後他可能有的會受到一些影響可能有的就逃跑那我們當然就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5168.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5196.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
看護工的話其實未來也是我們很重要的一個看護的一個長道一個很重要的一個主力因為很多家庭他確實需要這樣子看護移工來幫忙所以我們也希望就是說從政策方面能夠讓這些這個看護移工到台灣來他一方面雖然說薪資可能跟長工還是有一些落差可是如果說他的整個工作環境有改善的話我覺得他還是會願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5198.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5210.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
來擔任我們這樣的一個非常重要的一個整個長照體系其中的一環所以我也希望就是說勞動部可能跟各部會還是要繼續努力尤其是監察院這樣寫我都覺得說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5213.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5214.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
謝謝防洩網委員的諮詢謝謝部長的答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5244.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5262.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝接下來請蘇清泉委員謝謝主席我請部長跟老安老安署長請子安署啦對不起子安子安署子安署蘇委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5267.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5273.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
副部長,你是屏東人,屏東人口80萬,內地農民就要38萬,其他就是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5282.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5301.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我們勞工我不覺得勞動部對屏東有什麼好部長這個你要反省一下我今天要講的是你們大家都忘了但是這件事情就是民養大活那個時候吵得灰灰洋洋但是現在去年9月我來喚起大家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5308.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5334.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
不要攻擊完就忘記了十條人命九十幾個人受傷我們都參與在裡面救救人那我要這裡要講的是冰凍關的職災的發生率是全台灣第一名4.196台灣的平均是2點多這個我們史蘭史林族在做事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5339.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5339.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5343.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5370.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個10條的命令有4個是我們的消防員那這消防員我們去跟他去給他衛護跟侯友宇去的時候那家屬緊緊的拉著我的手說希望我們幫他們的忙不要下一個受害者那現在有一個問題就是我們治安署這邊是用職業安全衛生法嘛對吧那這是公務人員消防隊員是用公務人員安全防護辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5372.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5382.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個辦法什麼都不是嘛,也不是法,這是根據那些細節啦,訂出來的規範啦,辦法。這個你有,部長你有辦法介入嗎?這個很重要喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5386.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5409.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個報告委員其實這個大火發生以後那個行政院都有召集相關的部會那從彼此的權責去看怎麼樣強化未來的這些防災的管理不要讓這樣一個悲劇再次的發生所以我們自己部會像那個我們就是消防員的部分我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5410.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5432.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
就是他的防護就是由內政部消防法在消防法裡面去參考我們一些職我們職災保險或者我們的那個職安法的相關的規範去做職安的專章這部分是有責成行政院有責成內政部要去把法治完善所以他們的裝備武器裝備保養 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5434.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5459.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
阿他人生阿人生我覺得我們職安署做的比這個公家單位做的公務員這邊還好捏職安署謝謝委員的那個的這個垂詢因為有關消防法消防隊員確實在我們的國家法制裡面他的安全是依照公務員安全的防護辦法來辦理但是其實有特別指示因為這次民營大火之後有關消防隊員職安的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5460.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5475.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
有明確的指示要求由內政部由在那個消防法裡面定職安專章職安專章的法條目前消防署來找我們職安署提供我們提供的建議條文的內容給他們參考那邏輯上就是消防隊員的職業安全他做 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5475.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5502.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
封寫評估控制再救災跟我們執安法保障保障給那邊多一點啊你看多少個消防弟兄沒命去放啊發聲啊屏東這個大家受不了十幾個家庭破碎啊受傷的九十幾個現在在補皮啊還在復健啊那這個這個這個你說有執安的工廠地圖我看屏東 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5507.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5516.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
但是我今天早上看Google有名揚這個公司在但是我們的職安地圖裡面居然沒有名揚欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5519.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5520.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好,你看屏東縣的治安地圖那個那個一點一點那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5548.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5551.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
有在close follow up |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5575.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5578.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
民洋因為全世界的高爾夫球的球感台灣做了30%那全世界的高爾夫球的球台灣做了將近30% |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5596.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5616.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
台灣就是六家在搬啦 六家都有互相交叉 所以民營他沒做 其他就也不如何啊 也不差啊民營這個出事了 我是覺得很糟糕的就是他這個董事長是台大發公室的喔 台大發公室真的是 聲報夠賣欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5619.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5646.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
一個高級的球心是順勢丁二溪然後一些coating一層一層coating上去那個球那個是全部都是粉塵類的然後裡面還有鋰碰到所謂的爆炸那裡面的顏料跟TNT炸藥我當海軍陸戰隊我跟你講跟TNT炸彈是炸藥是一模一樣那這個廠商廠他把 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5648.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5676.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
儲存的場 儲存的地方 跟製造的地方 跟辦公室 都要合作一下 有這麼要事的一年做三四十億 一年賺五六億 改善那些工作 我都去現場看 看我很痛心去一年要開五六千萬 就改善了 都改善了 結果又不改善這是很糟糕的事情 那我現在要強調的是這些東西等於坐在炸藥上在做東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5677.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5705.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那其他的5家你們有去查嗎這個是更嚴肅的問題喔我們第一時間就有盤整有關這個原料我們有的特別是用有機過氧化合物的那個事業單位我們在去年年底做做出查複查做檢查如果有要提供可以處分的案件來執行那針對這種列管的高危險的事業單位其實我們建設民營齁董事長是台大化工系他明明知道那種東西他那麼可怕的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5706.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5724.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
隨時會爆炸的他都這樣幹了那其他都富盛齊坤大田齁大田齁糟糕的齁巨民民安這都互相交叉這些都這些這些場會會做得好我不相信啦所以齁我現在是要求部長跟署長你那天強力的稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5726.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5753.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
平東關這都掃一百個 這個化工廠都掃一次screen一次 高雄人家好像有做了 平東沒有做 我們縣政府有沒有這個能力我不知道 但是我對你主要是 我還有信心的阿部長 這很重要的 所以都去查一遍 所有平東關有的化工廠都去查一遍 尤其是這個做這麼高危險高爆炸的這種東西 絕對絕對 人命關天阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5756.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5758.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
謝謝委員提醒我們會做專案檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5787.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5794.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
請許部長都委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5807.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5833.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
部長本席也是來自我們桃園的立委因為我們桃園現在是一個移工的城市全台灣我們外籍移工裡面有六分之一的都選擇在桃園所以我們現在桃園大概外籍移工就超過11萬桃園也是一個移民的城市目前桃園針對我們外配的比例在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5834.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5861.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
這個比例已經達到我們超越新北已經達到第一所以這一陣子收到很多越南印尼很多我們外籍新住民群體針對他們相關就業跟職業訓練的部分有提出一些問題那剛好今天來請教一下部長跟我們署長請問一下那個部長大概知道我們去年112年我們新住民人數大概有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5863.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5867.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
去年新住民的人數對沒關係這個沒關係大概跟這個部長講我們經過我們的70萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5875.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5892.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
他是總共總共我們新住民的人數喔內政部統計喔是59萬多啦那所以他在去年的部分針對新住民喔已經超越了我們的原住民那加上如果新熱帶喔已經超過百萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5893.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5919.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
所以有人說去年112年可以說是新住民元年表示現在新住民在我們台灣的人口數是非常非常的多那我想針對我們這59萬多的新住民朋友請問一下我們勞動部跟勞發署有沒有針對他們就業促進服務還有措施職業信念等等有沒有針對他們來提供這些的服務有 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5920.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5944.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們有定一些計畫還有那個作業的要點還針對新住民的這個職業訓練啊就業媒合好等等都有提供相關的對那就是針對我們促進新住民我有看過我們有促進新住民作業補助作業要點好那當然也針對新住民也開了一些專班 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5945.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5970.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
當然表示我們勞動部在這一方面還是有在努力可是我們今天要講的重點說當然我們原住民的部分當然我們也需要照顧那現在新住民的部分人口數也這麼多那但是他的就業服務法裡面針對特定對象跟就業弱勢者這個母法裡面並沒有對他有特別的照顧所以我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5972.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5985.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這一部分我們599萬多裡面因為這裡面我們發現有一些缺失59萬多裡面我們大概有14萬多超過20%的部分是我們這個要點沒有辦法照顧到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5990.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6005.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那就是說我們這些外配啊當他規劃成為我們中華民國國民之後他這些你們公佈的這些作業的要點就不能照顧到他 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6005.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6028.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那這裡面我們目前大概有21萬多的外配就是印尼馬來西亞菲律賓越南等等這些外配他有20萬人但是他規劃之後就這些要點就沒有辦法照顧他這個比例非常高大概有七成所以想說針對我們這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6030.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6057.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
是不是我們有注意到這一部分因為有很多的他們反映結果規劃以後應該福利更好結果他規劃以後反而這些沒有照顧到他像我們很多的新住民的專班職業訓練津貼等等所以變成他們到時間到以後他可以領身份證他反而要考慮了所以我不知道說我們勞動部針對這一部分有沒有注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6058.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6084.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我這個部分來做一個回答其實跟委員報告這個我們的新住民他規劃以後他就是我們的國人他所有的這些就業就適用我們就業服務法相關的權益都是依照就業服務法所以是ok的沒有問題我們現在就業服務法是針對國人因為新住民不適用我們才另外訂一個新住民的補助所以剛好因為這我們也有研議到 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6084.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6108.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
因為新住民其他加入勞保農保的比例其實非常低大概只有五成那所以這個新住民他到時候加入這個就業保險法的比例我們絕對不是很樂觀而且他這裡面有四分之一的像自營作業無酬家屬的工作者還有雇主的身份這些是完全照顧不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6109.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6127.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
瓜哥委員因為他規劃以後他就是本國人了所以他就所有的他就比如說他如果受雇勞工他就是勞救保他的雇主就要幫他投保他如果是自營作業者或無一定雇主那他可以加入職業工會我們今天的重點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6128.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6144.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
就是因為他們有提出就是說他規劃以後其實他的各方面的照顧福利反而是低的所以所以你們去研議一下他說可以領身份證的時候反而要考慮所以我覺得這也很奇怪再來講規劃成為國民應該是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6147.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6164.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
結果他認為說可以領身份證反而規劃以後各項福利是差的所以他可以領身份證反而考慮不要領所以我覺得說就像我們蔡英文總統這個新南向政策希望我們這新住民融入我們的台灣的社會那今天有這個要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6165.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6187.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
反而針對這些規劃以後他們覺得反而成為國民以後各項的福利補助反而減少所以我就希望我們勞動部針對這一部分你們可能要去研議一下可能這個我覺得有一些可能有疏漏所以今天我們會提案修正促進新住民就業補助作業要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6188.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6217.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
需要放寬適用規劃的外國人還有要求勞動部要進行年度新住民就業狀況的檢查因為我們針對這個原住民的部分就業調查我們每一季做一次可是針對新住民我們是五年做一次所以我覺得這五年做一次可能針對整體新住民現在人口這麼眾多五年做一次可能沒有辦法確實的掌握他們的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6218.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6233.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
還有我們原住民現在有原住民基本法可是新住民現在只有作業要點還有救福法的服務對象針對這些部分我們希望來研議一下針對這部分我們注意一下看是不是有機會來加強還有我請問一下我們部長我們當初有講2028我們勞保說我們這個會基金會破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6248.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6263.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
那當初我記得2020年我們部長也有講當然上來你就希望來做那個勞保的年改那可是當初你說上來的時候要做這個年改可是這4年過去我想請問一下你的改革方案在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6264.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6280.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
報告委員其實那個因為勞保年改的部分會牽涉到千萬勞工的權益還有也涉及到60萬的投保單位所以這個部分其實各方的意見都不同因為我們有一些調整的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6282.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6300.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
因為我們現在擔心啊你說2028會破產啊我們是那個110年做的精算報告今年還會再做一次啦我們每三年做一次這是給政府一個參考說推估我們的基金用慶的時間點但是我跟委員報告就是說我們這幾年當然要推這個我想勞保財務的問題我們非常重視啦只是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6308.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6330.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們就是有共識的先做因為我們也相信我們部長講所以很多的勞工當然也擔心2028這個會破產的問題那當然2020我們部長上任的時候也信誓旦旦說不惜丟掉無紗帽也要來做這個年改然後你在9月的時候也說要求要在年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6331.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6359.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
勞動部要提出這個草案這個當初那個部長都有接受採訪都有說出這些可是我們發現4年過去真的還是沒有看到這改革方案那眼看著2028就要到了而且現在部長我也不知道說520部長的去留所以我現在很擔心剩下大概4年的時間我們這個勞保年改的問題我們希望能夠好好處理不要讓這些我們勞工的權益來受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6359.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6379.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
報告委員這個方針勞動部一定會持續來努力我們現在先首要是先把勞保基金的財務讓他能夠穩定然後其他的面向我們會持續跟勞資團體各界來溝通也聽取大家的意見有關於說要怎麼來改革或者說要怎麼來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6380.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6403.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這個我們有一個全盤的規劃這個不會我們一定會努力來做我們希望這個勞工這個福利權益的部分希望勞動部能夠好好的來重視好謝謝好謝謝圖全級委員那在這邊做一個宣告等一下在楊耀委員質詢結束休息10分鐘現在請王振旭委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6412.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6417.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
謝謝主席有請許部長有請周署長請部長請周署長王委員好部長好署長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6423.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6446.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
關於這個移工醫療權益的問題我們上週在質詢裡面也跟部長有討論過就是當時編輯就建議說必須要串聯跨部會的資源來進行有關於這些移工在各方面權益的這個維護那其實我們也了解資源不是沒有只是沒有妥善的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6446.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6473.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那很多政策其實都已經行之多年包括像我們在三四的時候有提到針對國內事實上有4家以上的這個友善醫院針對於我們這些移工做相關的這個醫療資源的處理那這部分我們期待還能夠持續的加強那今天部長的報告裡面其實也有討論到未來怎麼去加強各方面的這些勞動人力還有移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6474.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6476.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那不知道未來在這方面部長有哪一些的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6493.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6507.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
報告委員我先說明新南向的健康服務中心我們後來去了解他是針對國人的部分沒有包括移工而且他的項目是比較少然後有關於移工欠費的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6510.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6528.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
是那這個部分也在行政院也召開過跨部會的會議那我們4月對4月還在開第二次會議我那天有看到公文那就是說上一次的會議是在去年11月21開的那時候整個就是包括專家學者各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6529.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6553.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
大家看法是認為這個是屬於個人債務必須要要求來一個移工來源國他提供或者來建立相關的處理機制那這個部分我們會來跟來源國透過雙邊的會議來做要求那另外就是說我們目前因為大部分的來源國都比較消極處理這個問題那我們未來會規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6557.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6557.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
在上個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6580.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6604.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那個時候有提到針對外國的仲介公司希望能夠針對於這些失聯移工的就醫的待葬看有沒有辦法克責那我們今天從貴部的業務報告裡面看到就是會對於這些外國的仲介會進行負擔遣返及縮容等連帶責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6605.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6625.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
可是沒有看到在這方面能不能夠將有關的一些醫療或者是就醫過程當中的代帳也能夠做適當的處理那這部分可不可以麻煩部長能夠把相關的字眼都可以納進來好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6628.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6648.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那再過來就是有關於這個盤點我們職業安全相關的一些如何能夠保障勞工的健康權那其實本席十分關切目前職業安全的相關規範希望在所有的勞工在進行他們的工作同時都能夠兼顧到安全跟健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6648.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6667.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
得到應有的保障那其實我們也知道行政院在2018年就已經完成制定了這個18項的臺灣永續發展目標其中有3項包括目標3目標8目標10都跟我們的勞動勞工有很密切的關係那 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6669.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6692.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
可是呢從這個過去兩年來我們看到的相關的規範除了除了大型的這些上市商會公司有比較完整的這些永續報告書以外其他的部分我們希望能夠繼續進進不過我們也看到在目前1800家左右的這些商會公司裡面有提出永續報告書的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6694.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6707.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好像只有三分之一那這部分未來要如何來加強或者是有沒有更好的方式來讓所有的上位公司都能夠提出永續報告書如何去監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6709.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6736.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
委員這部分我請署長來說明好謝謝謝謝委員那個有關永續的17個指標或者國家第18個指標其實我們勞動部認為說每個指標都跟我們工作者有關係所以我們勞動部跟國發會針對永續部分我們安全健康的列為我們往前推展的一個方向那至於委員關鍵是我們跟上市公司的那個報告書其實金管會針對一定規模以上的公司要寫永續報告書但報告書它的那個框架架構有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6736.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6750.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
老公安全健康怎麼寫我們其實暫時有定一個指南供給世界單位做參考同時我每年會針對這有趣報告書有關安全安全揭露狀況好不好我們可以做神秘科的調查跟抽樣來做一些評比 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6751.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6775.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
所以謝謝委員提醒其實大企業這對安全健康那雲林小企業是整個體系在展開了我們會透過永續的精神讓大企業帶小企業把勞工健康問題往下扎根謝謝委員提醒謝謝好那我們可以看下一個畫面知道說其實這個GRI403他是指標那這個指標裡面包括第三項職業健康服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6775.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6802.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
有沒有進行相關的這些健康檢查那如何能夠讓工作者健康促進可以持續的讓這些健康工作的人得到健康的保護還有職業傷害我們可以看到不同的職類其實他接落的情形都有待加強所以剛剛署長有提到我們期待應該是各方面的職類都應該努力的來加強這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6803.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6813.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
非常謝謝委員 這個報告當然是我們勞動部責任署做極限調查的報告那我們發現說一年比年有稍微進步但是我們認為說有些產業它其實是比較弱的所以我們會針對我們這兩年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6816.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6837.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
在做往後的展開特別是我們跟金管會做合作因為有些報告書的一些規範的要求是金管會為主但是我們跟他合作的時候GI403我們勞動部也出個中英文的對照指引這個也是我們後會會給委員做參考其實我們引領企業把揭露部分特別是安全健康做比較好的說明謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6838.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6866.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
好謝謝那再過來我們可以看一下其實企業辦理勞工這個健康檢查剛剛提到是第三項的部分可是我們看到針對一些特殊的檢查健康檢查還是有蠻大的落差依照貴屬的推估目前將近有500家事實上是沒有執行相關這個勞工檢查那這些黑數是我們未來有什麼方 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6868.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6888.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
法或者是對策來盡量減少這些黑數謝謝委員提醒因為我們現在按照這個世界上通報跟相關系統的嫁接我們現在全國大概6600家世界都要做特別危害健康作為檢查一般勞工是做一般健康檢查但是6600家的部分剛才委員有提醒就是我們從系統去嫁接他有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6889.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6906.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
做特殊健檢之外我們後面的監督檢查會把一些高風險的拉出來另外跟委員報告我們其實去年開始做另外一個是CMR的CMR化學物質使用的一個世界單位專案檢查就是致癌致高致致毒毒害致生殖危害的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6907.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6935.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我們另外500加我們做後面的追蹤檢查我們希望使用西安馬物質的事業單位他的健康風險能夠被我們做比較好的watch是 介委員好那主席我可以多2分鐘是因為我們比較擔心的是規模比較小的而且他們對於這種特殊健康檢查事實上需求是更高的所以如果能夠透過一些方法比如說從公共工程的標案啊國營事業開始做起 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6936.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6963.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
除了大型的這些檢查以外那針對於臺電中有對於相關承包商的監督針對下層的這個監督可以更落實的話對於我們從事這種很辛苦的勞動人員應該可以讓他的特殊健康檢查可以得到更好的保障是那再過來就是有關於在做這個健康檢查的當中我們也了解有去 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6964.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6987.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
看執行這些健康檢查的醫療院所是不是在他都能夠有效的執行相關的內容那我們可以看到的就是根據去了解這些醫療機構發現他們得到的相對分數是低的很多是C跟D的等級那C跟D的等級意思就是我們去了解發現相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6989.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7015.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
人員其實都非常的優秀可是呢他的一些軟硬體的設施不是不足或就是有相關的缺失那這部分如何能夠讓這些從事的健康檢查醫療機構在平昏如果相對低的時候有哪一些改善的方法如何能夠把相關的這些資源可以引進來不知道未來有沒有特別的規劃先有人關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7017.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7033.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
老公見到檢查的醫療機構他應該符合標準安全的需求才讓他執行所以我們有平和機制有所以看到委員秀的是我們平和的成績那我們現在有新的機制就是如果連續三年不好我們就把他要下架因為我們要擇優太烈所以有關這樣子的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7034.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7035.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
接下來請楊耀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7069.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7096.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
謝謝主席主席請一下許部長請許部長兩位好部長好部長我看部長我看今天的業務報告齁就有關年金改革的準備的部分部裡面這邊還是一直停留在收集意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7098.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7125.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
對不對我看你們的給我報告收集意見跟溝通會不會會不會收集意見跟溝通的時間太長了部長不是我不是不是不是我我我知道這是一項很很嚴峻的工程我也不是想為難你可是可是我覺得好像每每一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7126.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7151.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
每一次的業務報告有關年改的部分大概一直都是停留在收集意見跟評估那這樣子到底年改革什麼時候可以啟動什麼時候可以落實讓讓讓廣大的勞工可以得到安心到底什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7152.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7165.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
委員這個期程部分我們會來通盤的規劃只是說因為不是 現在部長我打岔一下部長我打岔一下就是說你假如說說今天來議務報告已經有期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7167.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7189.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那我可能還可以接受可是這6年來我看部長也已經認滿6年了這個是一個非常長壽的部長可是對於跟勞工這麼息息相關影響這麼重大的一個政策一直停留在 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7191.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7207.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
在準備跟收集意見打到共識這個階段本席真的沒有辦法接受謝謝委員因為這部分的確是不容易因為勞工的人口數實在是太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7210.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7232.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
每個產業勞工職業勞工的這個他們的意見都不同關心的點都不同所以這個部分我也認為說這個其實應該要更我曾經在委員會跟部長討論過我覺得任何一項改革都不可能有共識都不可能有共識那我也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7235.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7261.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
勞工的年金改革為什麼困難就是因為他原本的的可以領到的給付就少那廣大的勞工的受薪階級也沒有因為台灣的經濟成長他的薪資等比例的增加所以要增加保費也有一定的阻力那要延後退 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7265.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7287.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
可能會引發很大的風波所以我知道困難在哪裡可是也正因為困難所以才選民給民進黨機會就是要民進黨面對困難我還記得我們在從事軍工校年改的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7289.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7306.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
整個民進黨黨團大概受影響最大的就是我因為我澎湖的軍工校比例太高了可是我還是帶著崗盔挺過了年改我也已經又當選兩屆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7308.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7330.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
就是說應該像蔡英文總統講的就是應該要改革的就是必須要改革必須要想到想到想到想到欸一套一套方案出來讓退休的不恐懼讓讓正在正在繳保費的洗男這個是我們的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7331.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7359.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那我看這幾年就是提撥成為改革唯一的選項那這個本席也不反對甚至於我也已經提案把政府負擔最終的責任入法為什麼我這麼重視這件事情就是我講的這必須要讓勞動者有一個安定的心情 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7360.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7372.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
欸讓他知道知道任何人執政都不會放棄這一千多萬的的老公朋友這一千多萬對台灣經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7376.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7398.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
有卓著貢獻的勞工我覺得我們必須要去面對現在就是這樣子就我剛才講的我知道改革的困難為什麼呢因為不要說減少給付就以目前的給付來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7399.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7428.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我們目前在請領勞工給付的人數大概有174萬平均每個月領到的是一萬八千多一萬八千多可是最低台灣的最低生活費以台北市來講就已經高達一萬九千多其台北市以外的地方平均值 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7429.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7446.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
也已經將近到達一萬五那他現在領這樣子已經快要快要未達在台北市已經未達未達最低生活費的標準了現在萬一再減少幾副怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7448.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7476.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
對,跟我也報告,但是我們其實臺灣的產業勞工來看他其實他退休包括兩個,一個就勞保另外一個就勞退,這兩個加起來那當然還有一些健保啦長照,那個是照顧我們的退休的人員健保跟長照是另外一回事啦我們就聚焦在勞工的部分就勞保跟勞退可是呢勞退的比例呢就是太低了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7477.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7502.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
字體的部分太低了字體比較低但是固體喔固體拿到我記得700多萬喔大概大概是這樣子啦齁前體前體體角數大概在106年的時候大概是14%多啦對對對那現在現在就是到字體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7504.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7527.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們到去年年底是14.17%人數是106萬所以就是像部長講的沒有錯勞工的退休的保障我們的設計是架構在勞保跟勞退可是問題是勞退本身有一個現象就這14點幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7531.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7556.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你仔細去看薪資所得越高的越願意自提配合自提的部分那越低的呢因為他的所得本來就低所以他要再提出6%他可能有他的困難度還有一個固體6%固體6%是僱主一定要提撥的對我知道那6%就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7558.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7560.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7561.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7588.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那6%呢是大家都有我現在講的是6加6特別是以薪資低的勞工來看6加6才足以保障他的退休生活那因為他假如說本來就低薪他可以領的勞保給付本來就低 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7590.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7603.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
然後呢他又因為職涯的過程生活的所需教養子女孝敬父母所以他可能要自提這6%對他來講就馬上面臨生活的困頓 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7610.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7632.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
部長你懂我的意思嗎?我知道我知道不過當然啦如果是低薪的齁可能多數都是低薪的低薪的字題很少啦對我們現在大概有統計啦齁大概平均啦齁報告委員平均我們那個月投保薪資大概就是平均大概3萬7啦齁如果以3萬7來看喔他的勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7633.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7646.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
應照按照現在限制他大概是領1萬7左右然後再如果他的再加上勞退就是固體只算固體不算自體啦齁大概1萬所以這個加起來勞保加勞退大概有27700 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7648.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7673.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
就是像一個退休勞工以平均的月頭保薪資來看如果是37000平均大概我們抓大概37000他這樣領起來有27000多對啊這種平均值就是這種平均值就是比較看不到看不到真正弱勢的啦保障弱勢呢是民進黨邁向執政最重要的一個一個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7675.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7675.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
對對對因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7701.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7712.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我也知道很困難可是我常說不困難的事情怎麼輪得到我們做呢那不然我最後問一個問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7715.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7734.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
本席已經提出來政府擔負最終的支付責任的保證那這樣子的提案 勞動部這邊的立場會支持嗎?我們支持好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝楊耀委員 我們先來休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7761.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7762.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8405.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8412.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
好接下來請王玉明委員好謝謝主席我們請這個勞動部部長請許部長王委員好部長好部長你記不記得過去你曾經說過就是即使你摘了烏紗帽也要進行年金改革勞保年金改革你有沒有說過這句話這句話不是我說的是在訪問的時候那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8434.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8436.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
關羽老寶負債13兆即將在2028年破產你到底想改還是不想改 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8451.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8454.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
有沒有改革的計畫到目前為止本席看到就是我們的這一些老年給付金額過去10年你看這個圖我們從102年到這個111年他其實是暴增了兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8468.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8492.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那這個所有的這個精算報告都已經直指2028年其實就要年金就要破產但是到目前為止本期都沒有看到到底我們主責的勞動部你的年金改革的計畫到底在哪裡喔過去蔡總統也曾經說要軍工教勞一起改 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8492.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8520.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
結果軍公教年改已經完成了但是我們有關於勞保年金的改革到現在遲遲未上路遲遲未啟動本期想要救教部長這個問題到底是出在哪裡是你作為勞動部長你不敢去提方案不敢改還是有更上層告訴你說千萬不要動不要有任何的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8521.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8531.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
到底是哪一個是你自己沒有改革計畫還是上面有交代說我們只要改軍公教就好勞保根本不用改這個問題我們一直在很審慎的在做一些研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8536.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8553.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有嗎有那報告委員因為主要幾個面向那委員應該也清楚因為整個財務要改其實勞保年改的目的他是在要解決財務的問題是那解決財務的問題當然這裡面就有幾個面向一定要去做討論我這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8555.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8576.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
好那這個當然就是包括費率的調整的部分包括月平均薪資的採集年間包括年資給付率是不是要調整還有就是撥補因為不管怎麼樣這個撥補是一定要的因為說了面向它都是連動的我知道但是撥補可以解決整個勞保年金要破產的問題嗎撥補沒有辦法完全解決撥補是啊而且你現在撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8579.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8606.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
是幾百億欸又不是說一兩千億對報告委今年是到一千兩百億再加特約預算是一共一千三那我是跟委員報告就是說這個撥補其實對不能完全解決問題但是其實對我們基金的一個財務的穩定是有幫助那你這是短期的救急啊但是就廣大的一千萬的勞工來講短期的救急方案這是解決之道嗎這個蔡政府執政已經八年囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8610.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8627.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
還有多少個勞工的8年可以拖延或者是等待那如果大家面對問題就只是這樣子歸縮起來然後呢不敢提任何方案我覺得這不是一個負責任的執政黨該有的作為吧我覺得報告委員這個問題當然一定要去面對處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8629.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8653.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
什麼時候要面對就是說什麼時候要提方案我是幫廣大的勞工因為周遭都有勞工朋友說媒體都這樣子在報就是說2028年要破產那這些年輕的勞工就很擔心我必須真的還是要讓委員因為這個所謂的破產是基金的用完這個部分其實是整個財務他可能會面臨這個用慶的這個問題但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8657.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8672.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
對於勞工的權益因為這是政府辦的保險政府一定會付給負的責任因為我很怕有時候一講破產這句話勞工要不了解他有時候我到時候是不是沒有錢可以領了是啊因為你的收支就是不平衡因為你現在負債已經13兆啦我必須這麼說還是要利用這個機會因為我一定要跟勞工朋友講說這個基金用盡並不代表你就領不到錢因為這是政府辦的保險 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8682.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8708.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
政府一定會負幾負責任所以我說但是你一個保險呈現出來的負債這麼高勞工擔心也是合理啊勞工擔心當然他擔心他希望我們財務解決我們這個讓他能夠穩定然後他這個能夠永續但是因為你沒有解決方案啊方案我跟委員報告我們方案就沒有方案啊方案還在你劇當中啊因為方案委員部長你已經做幾年了七年了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8709.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8709.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們會在這樣穩定的財務基礎上 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8725.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8725.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我根本沒提出任何的關於如何解決勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8740.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8751.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
年金破產的問題沒有任何方案欸你們現在你們的官網你自己看你們的年金改革你們一直停滯在這個疫苗收集的階段因為目前沒有方案就是說因為還沒有一定的共識啦你根本會也沒有開啊怎麼會有共識你們根本不敢走出踏出那一步因為只要一開始行動你們就怕被檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8767.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8787.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
因為那個不是我參與但是在這年金改革委員會其實有討論到老跑的問題大概是幾個面向大家都知道啦只是說這個面向你到底要怎麼去做處理所以你現在到底是你不能改還是不敢改還是上面有交代說先不要動不是都不是我覺得我現在還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8788.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8816.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
持續我的意思說還是要勞資團體部長我們還是要你讓本席看到就沒有持續啦好啦這個問題我就是要讓部長知道說這是重中之重作為執政黨哪有那麼好當該扛的就是要扛該解決的要面對就是要面對嘛但是你們這樣子一直拖延一拖再拖其實很多勞工心裡的那個擔憂是真的因為這樣子沒有根本解決問題這是第一個齁第二個我要問你那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8817.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8839.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
台印的MOU你們什麼時候會送行政院?送了沒?還沒報告委員因為我們2月26接到嘛那知道我們就是按照條約地鐵法的規定我們30天也就我3月26之前會送進去然後因為現在在他們在簽辦當中3月26會送到行政院對對那什麼時候會送立法院?4月初? |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8841.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8871.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
就是行政院被查之後我們就會送那個立法院這裡好所以是大概4月初會送進來立法院嗎可能應該是4月就是你們沒有時間表嗎不是因為要等行政院被查啦他回文給我們說被查我們就會送那個立法院應該4月我跟差不多了這個本期上個禮拜我有接見很多的這個移工團體他們很關心這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8871.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8890.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
第一個他們有反映到有關於台印要簽MOU這件事情他們希望要能達到G2G就是政府對政府而且希望這個是唯一方案因為他們已經看到現行的執聘中心這個相關的制度還有很多缺失你們也沒有改 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8891.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8918.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
但是他們認為這個台印因為部長你有說會是從小規模開始那既然小規模就可以用一個新的做法來做這件事情部長你是不是可以承諾這些勞工團體會全力的來研議G2G的方案會會齁好你答應了齁好那另外一個呢就是這些勞工團體說最近我們跟印尼還要再次簽MOU你知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8920.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8939.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
應該是1月屬的,境外遠洋漁工對,是關於遠洋漁工那連這樣子印尼的官方他還邀台灣的漁工團體透過視訊在簽MOU之前他要了解這些團體的想法我覺得印尼這樣的做法非常的進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8940.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8966.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就是他連我們臺灣的移工團體的意見都充分尊重然後再納入他的意見再來簽MOU但是反觀我們的做法我們是簽了MOU之後現在事後才要來開相關的會議再來收集意見而這些移工團體告訴我說你們之前什麼都沒有邀請他們而他們是最關心就是有關於這些這些外籍移工的問題為什麼你不邀他們呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8967.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8970.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
國會報告因為其實我們歷來包括之前的5個來源國我記得到6個了其實還有馬來西亞過去我們都是都沒有徵詢團體的意見都沒有那你要改變做法部長你可以改變一個好的做法你要比前面更進步啊那我問你那後面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8987.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8991.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
你將來要開的這一些會議算是本席有問過嗎你是不是可以承諾讓這一些比較有代表性的移工團體讓他們有機會進到你的會議小組裡面我覺得他們真的是真正關心移工相關權益的這一群人不要把他們排除在外 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9005.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9022.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
讓他們的意見納進來才可以讓我們整個台印雙方未來的這一個MLU的內容是更完備或是未來的制度設計更兼顧到這一些移工的權益是不是可以承諾邀我們這一些代表性的移工團體可以進來你的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9026.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9046.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我希望今天部長的承諾要做到讓這些擴大讓這些公民團體的參與只有好處沒有壞處因為我們可以把各式各樣的情況設想得最周到然後讓這些外籍移工來到台灣之後不要有被剝削而是他的權益都可以得到最周延的保障達到雙贏的目標好不好好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9051.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9055.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝王委員接下來請李昆成委員謝謝主席來有請我們許部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9071.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9087.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
立委員好部長好這個我過去在擔任市議員的時候然後也常常會介紹那些勞資爭議的陳情案件還蠻多的那時候就是勞工局會做處理那我這個就幾個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9089.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9096.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
案件的這個數字請教一下部長我們是109年勞動事件處理法實施之後然後這個勞資爭議案件的統計從109年到112年那這個109年是27000到112年是26000大概有稍微減少一點點但是其中受到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9111.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9135.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
送到地方法院受理的案件這4年來大概平均大概都1萬件左右那我看到這個司法院他們的這個新聞稿他上面寫說這個勞動的調解案或是訴訟案平均的這個終結的天數這個63.47天還有116.35天那也少於法定期間的90天跟180天那所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9136.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9160.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這個勞動事件調節成立率57%大概快六成那對勞方來講是相對是有利的那所以這個本席請教這個部長就統計來看勞資爭議的案件法院審理可以得到快速的處理但是呢而且對勞方是有利的但是勞資爭議的案件呢並沒有顯著的減少那部長你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9164.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9186.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
因為勞動事件法當初也是要讓這些讓勞工願意然後便於使用這個訴訟程序來解決爭端所以我覺得這個訴訟案件會增加這個其實就是說對勞犬保障來講並沒有說不好我也沒有說不好我就說這個勞資爭議案件也沒有減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9190.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9207.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那所以就表示說當然如何減少勞資爭議那這個要從他們譬如說爭議的原因然後去探討然後我的意思是說那其實我們一般都希望說能夠勞資能夠去協調就協調也不一定最後是上法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9209.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9225.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
可是我也發現臺灣的資方寧願請律師上法院也不願意給勞工合法的勞動條件因為我看這一個地方受理的案件平均來講也都是一萬件左右其實也沒有減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9227.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9248.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
因為這個當然就是有時候資方他的意願等等這個也沒有辦法因為其實我們在做這個調處的時候那其實比如說勞工局他們會去資方調閱相關的一些文件然後讓資方也覺得說勞工局有在重視這件事情但是他們最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9249.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9271.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
大概平均下來都還是有大概接近三分之一吼他們還是最後還是上了法院吼案件也沒有減少啦吼我用意在這裡啦就是說欸如果有人是希望說能夠吼盡量不要對啊還是不然你你我們還是希望說站在老方的這個角度來講嘛所以報告委員我們其實也是行政跟司法的條件我們都還是維持雙軌啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9273.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9283.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好那其實在像剛剛您講的那個法院的調解大概57%我們大概勞動部這邊行政調解大概都一半以上我的意思是說齁這個還是站在勞方的立場齁就是能夠協調就協調這個不鼓勵齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9290.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9306.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這資方跟勞方打官司啦我是看那個數字齁大概沒有什麼顯著下講好我再問你一下齁我們在2004年開放家庭幫傭齁那家庭幫傭的這一個其實標準是很嚴格啦齁這個有三個條件齁就有三名以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9307.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9329.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那個年齡6歲以下的子女或是說4名以上齁年齡12歲以下的子女而且其中兩名是年齡6歲以下或是累積點數滿16點齁那當然你們有一個累積點數表啦齁那可是齁就目前來講我們都是少子化齁然後呢如果是這個有3個小孩齁除非齁你一次三胞胎啦不然齁一次一胎齁跨了6年齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9330.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9346.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這個總是就是不符合資格因為你可能到第三胎齁這個你的這個長這個這是老大齁有可能就是超過了啦齁然後部長你應該知道齁其實現在從2021年開始齁我們已經連續37個月齁生不如死你知道生不如死是什麼意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9350.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9376.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
死亡比出生多所以說我本席就是有接到一個案例就是說他們在這個申請的時候那其實是符合資格的那可是呢他因為這一個幫養就是在照顧小孩方面出了一些問題那所以他必須就是要換掉但是當他換掉的時候當初申請的時候是符合資格但是要換的時候老大已經超過6歲了就不符合資格了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9377.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9405.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那其實我有請你們的這個勞動力發展所來做過這一個說明然後他們也有給予協助但是我個人是認為就是說我們對家庭幫傭的這一個制度在現在少子化的情況之下這其實是有點限制是有點嚴格剛剛三個條件我是想請這個勞動部回去檢討一下就是說你們資格條件能不能放寬因為現在是少子化的情況那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9406.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9417.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這個有關家庭看護的這部分他其實就比幫用都還要再寬鬆一點比如說那個家庭看護他有這個地補的制度他不用重新申請然後甚至的也縮短了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9418.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9418.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
部長． |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9446.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9473.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
包括這個我們來檢討啦但是因為這個部分其實也有不同的團體有不同我知道有不同的團體啦所以我們這部分會再來做一些因為條件的確是嚴格的一點我們現在少死化情況那麼嚴重我們要鼓勵多生鼓勵多生我們也做了很多的這一些托育政策那有關這個齁這個有關家庭包容這部分本席是認為是可以再放鬆一點啦不要給家庭造成太大的壓力啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9474.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9488.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
當然有不同團體有不同意見我們也是有借到相關的陳情好不好來做個橫評一下再稍微再調整一下好謝謝主席謝謝李坤澄委員接下來請林淑芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9502.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9506.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
好謝謝主席喔是不是請我們這個許部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9511.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9537.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
林委員好部長好我們知道這個消除婦女歧視一切形式的這個歧視公約C鬥公約我們的國家報告是4年要報告一次嘛對不對然後這4年裡面我們最近的一次報告是111年的第4次國家報告會議結論在這個性平意見上有關的就有一個叫家庭育兒和工作的平衡他關切的重點是什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9540.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9555.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
就是讓消除婦女所有一切的歧視CEDAW公約我們的國家報告跟你們的業務有關的是什麼應該就是能夠在育兒上更有更友善的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9557.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9570.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我先來講他為了提升婦女人權和促進性別平等的重要成果他公開發表了86點的結論性意見還有建議那跟你們最直接相關第49點和第50點是這樣說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9574.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9593.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
第49說台灣已經列為全球最低出生率的國家之一國際審查委員會發現造成這個現象的關鍵因素是非常薄弱零散且模糊的產價和育嬰制度儘管台灣的育嬰制度最近有一些彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9594.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9601.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
但他仍然很僵化所以這個國際審查委員會他關切育嬰價制度我們台灣現在仰賴主要是仰賴雇主的貢獻那第50點當然就講到說這個國際委員會建議政府研究並參考國際經驗改善育嬰價制度以設計一個永續和彈性的制度為目標讓所有利益相關者一起分擔費用以增進國家利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9624.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9637.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
所以他一直在建議說改善育嬰假制度改善育嬰假制度你要我們都知道說針對這個國家報告我們要採取行動方針要訂出績效指標嘛對不對你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9637.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9637.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
你們訂什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9637.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9638.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
你們知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9638.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9639.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
你們的績效指標還是你們的行動方針是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9650.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9661.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
報告委員因為這個部分我們勞動部還是在持續在研議當中因為這個其實委員我知道你沒有你如果不知道你業務單位知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9664.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9685.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個部分的話就是我們持續的會有一些更...我在問你們的績效指標是什麼行動方針111年到現在勒4年一次115年你們就要針對你們採取了什麼行動有了什麼關鍵的績效指標你們要回復出來勒你們要做報告勒部長不知道業務單位也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9687.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9690.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我跟你報告好了今年你們2月就公開了CIDO第4次國家報告的行動回應表112年的辦理情形你們的具體行動方針你們具體行動就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9705.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9723.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
加強宣導職場平權概念關鍵的績效指標是一年要辦25場的宣導會讓勞工要了解自身權益、雇主要遵守法令你們的行動方針是辦宣導會然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9727.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9739.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
計效指標是要達到25次一年半25次人家講說你的育嬰價要改善你說好我來宣導宣導平權那我一年半25次代表我績效達到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9741.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9769.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這樣子未免太便宜行事了吧保證這樣太簡單了這樣會不會就虛以為疑啊這樣子你們在115年你們要報告你們具體的推動成果難道你要跟國際審查委員會說我已經辦了一年我不是辦25場我辦26場的宣導要這樣子講嗎人家說你要改善你的育嬰假的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9770.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9775.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
要建立一個更有彈性的不僵化的你說我去宣導了 保證這樣會搞這個當然不夠不過我知道就是運將的部分我剛其實要表達是說我也責成我們的那個業務單位這個部分一定要去做一些研議規劃我們已經跟你建請多少年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9795.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9799.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我至少我們看過工地委然後這幾年至少這5年內我們也不斷都一直不斷的跟你講說我們有一個更好的更彈性的親子架的架構都跟你們講了但我今天要講說你們部裡面始終認為說阿我育嬰留子停薪有做就是了所以你們在這裡面大概檢視了兩個說我到底有沒有做第一個當然就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9824.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9845.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
這個申請育嬰留職停薪的勞工他有意願重返原工作崗位你們認為這個就是指標第二個你們也認為說顧子武願意提供原工作的這個意願比例也上升了你們就覺得他有意願再重返職場第二個顧子武也願意讓他返回原來的職位 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9849.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9864.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
的意願也提高了反為原來的工作崗位你們認為這樣就叫達標了但是呢我們跟你講說事實上這個重返職場重返工作崗位這樣子就算是達標了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9866.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9889.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以我們希望你是要對申請了育嬰流子停薪的勞工你還要進行長期的這個追蹤他的職業變化然後呢我們發現你們自己這個安慰所其實有一個一份長期的追蹤報告那安慰所裡面他研究發現申請育嬰流子停薪者相較於未勤領者 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9890.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9914.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
有較高的離職率那也建議未來研究可以納入婚育離職者和未離職者的比較更深度的去檢驗育嬰留職停薪政策的成效但我們在這裡要強調這個我們不反對育嬰留職停薪但是透過你們安慰所這份研究我們更要證明提升勞參率 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9917.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9942.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
維持女性的勞參率不要講提升啦維持生兒養小孩以前的勞參率維持它不是這個只有靠育嬰留子停薪不要每次談到說家庭跟工作生活要平衡你就說啊我們有育嬰留子停薪假提高了經濟性的補貼然後就叫我們要住嘴不是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9943.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9951.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
第一個國家勞動力短缺你們動不動就說開放外籍移工開放外籍幫傭開放外籍勞工不只是那樣子我們的婦女勞參率從剛出社會我們的90%的勞動參與率下降到生小孩以後重返勞動到這個生完小孩10年以後勞參率剩40幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9969.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9988.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
台灣的婦女勞參率沒有辦法重返生小孩之前然後留住台灣的這一些專業的認真的女性的勞動者你們要拿出來不是只有育嬰留子停薪假為什麼要這麼講說你來看你們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9990.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10007.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個安慰所我們從這個育兒婦女就業歷程探討提升勞動參與率參與意願的可行性你們勞研所109年的報告你看2004年他做了204年這一批的他持續就業的這一群來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10008.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10012.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
他養小孩養到最後一年剩下45% |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10023.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10040.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那我們也知道養小孩的第一年還是很多人會留在職場但是呢他要面臨幾個階段第一個階段大幅下降的就是小孩在這個第三年大概送托兒所了送托兒所就經常發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10043.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10047.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
容易生病感冒藏病毒婦女要帶回家自己顧顧天顧7天總來總去就這個大幅滑落-8.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10054.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10074.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
在第6年要念小學了他反而滑落了5-3.4小學孩子家長的這個陪伴然後關心他的教育發生問題了然後跟學校老師要溝通所以他還需要的時間要很談判也要很多但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10075.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10090.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
大部分的不友善的狀況沒有配套的狀況他還是選擇離職追蹤到最後一年第12年之後呢剩下45.5所以你看得出來婦女的勞動參與率一去不復繁 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10092.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10094.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
在這種狀況裡面很多臨時狀況但是我們看到負育兒的女性一旦退出職場以後就沒有再重返職場這個才是國家勞動力 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10107.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10111.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
最大的隱憂而你們當然想說不要緊啦外籍移工啦外籍幫傭婦女要二度就業大概重返什麼的門檻最低你知道嗎也有部分的婦女她會去做這個倒載 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10124.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10147.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
倒載保姆居家清潔。結果打算來開放外籍幫佣,他們再繼續死掉嗎?所以我現在看接下來那6歲以前婦女都選擇直接離開職場但是年齡比較大的時候可以上學以後他就會開始採取兼職那我們現在看高所得跟低所得來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10148.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10154.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
高低所得不管你大家覺得你所得這麼高的婦女你大概不會離開職場吧薪水這麼高這麼好你就去請外傭來幫傭幫忙帶小孩就好了帶小孩有人幫你帶小孩煮飯清潔打掃這麼高薪你不會離開職場吧事實上不然啊事實上不然你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10172.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10188.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
高所得者生完小孩要第一年他有82.8%到那個第12年剩下47.1%這樣下降了多少你看低所得的人76.6然後追蹤到最後一年43.0一樣大幅滑落你不要以為很有成就感所得很高的婦女他就願意他就願意繼續留在職場 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10200.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10206.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
其實他還是有很多的這個需求所以今天在這裡我們今天要跟大家講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10210.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10235.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個獄嬰劉子庭新者他即便申請那也只是前0到3歲0到3歲0到3歲以後呢0到3歲以後他還是繼續有這個就業的這個需求但是呢他還是有薪資所得的需求但是呢還會再重返就業的他持續就業比 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10236.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10256.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
有申請過應留職停薪的持續就業的跟一般整體不管有沒有的平均數來比他還是比較低啊那我們今天講說其實很多人是需要經濟經濟因素他是不能夠沒有收入而他必須要有收入然後還必須要兼顧育兒所以這種狀況裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10260.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10275.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們看到說我們一直在跟你溝通喔引導育兒女性重返職場不只是這個育嬰留子停薪假也不只是只有這個顧小孩的外傭顧小孩你看到六歲六歲之後他還是繼續在滑落 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10279.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10298.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
他不是6歲以後就不用再陪著這個小孩所以我們也希望說著眼於避免育兒的女性退出職場有心彈性的親職假他很重要他的彈性在於說如果我們育兒留職停薪假是兩個月嘛60天嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10300.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10322.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那你讓他開放到一天一半天一小時為這個方案然後呢新資補貼這個當然原來就是舊保繼續付也沒有叫雇主付然後對雇主來講也很有善啊我的這個生育的婦女不是一次請兩個月也不是一次請半個一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10323.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10343.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
然後呢他也不用說半年裡面分兩次請對僱主來講他是可能以天為單位他比較好搭配他不用再去請一個人來這個替補這個人力然後總共的天數就是啊抱歉就是總共的天數就是6個月啦我剛剛講錯了是6個月所以不是兩個月是我剛剛一直講錯了6個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10346.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10352.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這6個月裡面你讓他慢慢的彈性的去那你讓僱主說一次請3個月或是一次請6個月對僱主的衝擊比這個彈性還更大對不對部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10358.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10375.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
一天六天還一次一天六天再一次對僱主衝擊比較大就是說主要是他人力的運用還有替代的這個會不會不好找人因為本來想說那種零碎化可能比較難找人但沒關係我這麼不是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10376.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10396.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
六個月僱主還要找一個人來替補他嘛三個月也要但六天跟一天他比較好找人找替報告你就是有些輪班的公司啊他如果是一小時或兩小時那個對他會比較困難因為他沒有辦法去找這種一小時的人力來 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10397.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10419.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
那你這樣子講話你這個鼓勵婦女在就業計畫裏面你講到說獎勵雇主提供有照顧需求女性勞工調整或縮短工作時數你這個方案你就不用做啊叫你講的你們提供了雇主對有照顧家庭需求的婦女提供工時調整或部分工時調整每一個職缺每個月發給3000元最長12個月最高獎勵36000元然後你們這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10425.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10430.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
要做到113年2月29號截止你們發了687個職缺去補助然後你們要透過獎率去引導雇主縮短工作時數育兒女性以薪資讓他們有彈性你還要給錢那你現在又說這個對排班的公司來講是很困難的你的這個政策跟你剛剛所講的是矛盾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10450.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10457.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
林委員是因為時間的關係等下還要處理臨時提案我趕快做一個結束好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10459.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10483.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
首先你這個東西就認為說應該要彈性化而且你要獎勵你還發給雇主最高一年三萬六的獎勵你的是說提供雇主有照顧需求的女性有照顧需求照顧小孩需求的女性調整或縮短工作時數勒那個林委員是不是等一下請勞動部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10491.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10503.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們要的是這個有心的這個彈性親子嫁啦因為事實上呢彈性親子嫁才能留住這個女性的勞動率啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10504.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10531.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那不能夠沒有工作沒有收入可是又要照顧小孩我們需要友善一點也不是只有到6歲為止甚至整個小學階段都還是很多問題小學階段一放一放那個長病毒一放都7天啊這題我有在處理我請業務單位去跟你們報告啦我們可能有會你試辦計畫啦我剛剛在跟你講說不是每個行業都有辦法這樣子做但是我們先對先就可以做的行業先來試辦看看啦我請業務單位去給你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10533.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10560.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
以前不是每個行業都可以一例一休我們也是先訂了啊 對不對是不是請那個勞動部等一下會議對啦我知道啦但是我跟你講說育兒的需求要到完整來講像小學階段要到12歲談性話其實要很久我剛剛講藏病毒就是7天他整個小學階段通通都要那也不是只有照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10562.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10575.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這個小孩到6歲而已不是只有這樣子而已請勞動部等一下會後再跟林委員說明那我在這邊做一個宣告等一下在05月請委員質詢結束處理臨時提案那現在請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席本席想邀請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10602.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10617.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
最近一次的勞保精算報告有指出你說若不啟動年金改革勞保基金將要在2028年破產那當年度缺口會來到1267億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10621.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10639.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那也成為賴清德總統任期內可以預估的看到的第一個大課題那部長你也曾經在2020年說老保年改掉了烏紗帽你都要做那現在你仍舊是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10642.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10665.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
但是勞保基金每一年依舊在增加數千元的精算負債精算負債所以因此我要說因為政府我們很關心絕對不能倒政府也告訴我們只要政府不倒勞保不會倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10665.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10689.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就是這樣子但是又隨時放出一個聲音又出來又賠了多少怎麼樣會怎麼樣那似乎對於我們的這個勞工朋友非常的不公平所以呢本期要來請教部長你現在勞保修正的條例你會提出嗎請說說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10691.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10703.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
報告委員目前那個方案吼就是草案吼還沒有還沒有啦吼對還是還沒有來繼續本事要請教那如果你連提的方案都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10705.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10731.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那就擺爛的阿那本期要請教喔2028年勞保破產那如果你現在沒有方案協助喔比如說像台電需要倒我們趕快請行政院來支援因為不能漲價民生店漲了那物價又要漲了那是更大的洞所以行政院也支援那在這樣子的情況之下沒關係我們好好來討論喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10733.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10740.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那就是說我們政府當然要撥補給我們要努力這一塊那在這樣的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10741.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10771.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你可以保證政府每一年可以來撥補這個基金讓勞保不破產嗎因為本期要跟你討論的是應該要去努力行政院你如果每一年撥補的預算是1500億那就不會有這個問題那你總是你的條例未出以前那你要保證我們的勞保基金不會倒啊這才是部長你應該要做的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10772.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10780.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
請說明根本報告號其實再次計算報告是110年那在109年的時候我們基金餘額是7625億那到現在為止我的基金餘額到1月是9088億我記得這幾年透過撥補透過我們的投資老闆基金投資運用其實我們的這個基金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10797.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10816.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
財務是有增加增加1463億那我是跟委員報告說這種波幅也好投資運用也好這個都是讓我們財務能夠穩定那波幅的部分我們也持續先暫停你的回答因為每一次告訴我們就是這個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10816.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10840.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
但是每一次一小段時間就會告訴我們我們如果不怎麼樣呢那我們就會這個勞保金捐就會倒這個聲音在民眾的身上已經很痛苦了會倒會破產這都是媒體的報導我一向我們都是講說這是政府辦的社會保險勞工安心政府一定會負最後幾個責任這是媒體說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10842.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10854.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
但是人家有這樣的疑慮你就要去提出方案不管任何方案因為在你的立場就是要保證他真的不能倒嘛我們勞工才會安心啊當然這是你的工作所以來本期的立法會勞退薪資2005年實行到現在幾年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10870.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10898.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
啊?勞退新制到現在幾年啊?201818年18年了嘛吼那我們法定的這個雇主是6%嘛吼那其中還有一個也就是2003年的這個勞退自體率我們統計了你有新的政策你就要去看他的結果那這一個統計出來是2003年那個勞退自體的部分是14% |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10900.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10923.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那顯示還有大概740萬勞工裡頭有600萬那麼86%他希望扣我自己啦我不要自體那到底為什麼呢因為自體就是尊重在個人的意願當然啊那他不願意提可能是說他表示你的政策人就是怕你會倒啊所以人家不要自體啊 對不對每一次都告訴我們絕對不會倒然後一段時間又告訴我們有可能會倒自體不會倒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10929.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10933.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
當然啊!當然啊!那可是人家不要自體啊!對啊!個人帳戶不會倒啊!但是為什麼你的執行率是如此?本席要跟你討論的就是說當你提出一個政策之後那為什麼你的執行率不高? |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10954.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10967.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你聽我說具體不高有的是勞工他自己可以去投資應用他可以到自由金融市場去投資應用也有人因為他的經濟負擔他認為他沒有辦法有餘裕再去製體 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10969.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10969.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
當然啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10990.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11004.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我會努力來讓字體,因為這個等於說鼓勵勞工出去你要去努力嘛,而不是原因,當然人家不信任你,人家當然不要啊有我原因啦,我會介紹給你聽啦,但是KPI要提高,我會再拍片要努力,好那你把你的方案,你可能提高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11012.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11030.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那個效能的方案你提出來好不好最後一個議題我給他一個功課就好三八婦女節剛過那麼我們針對於女性面臨勞動薪資的部分同工不同酬那麼我們也看到101年的參與率首次破了五成 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11031.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11049.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那麼提升到51點七三%但是我們也有很多的學者也警示我們在職場的方面對於女性呢他是不夠友善也缺乏彈性所以部長我給你一個功課我要拜託你影響女性參動力的一個參與率呢他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11050.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11079.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這個重要因素他沒有辦法提高到底是什麼因為你們為期定期的三年的婦女在就業計劃裡頭你有鼓勵你有鼓勵因為婚姻因素退出的希望能夠重返這個職場所以我要你一個資料也就是我們看到的是這樣子的但是是不夠友善的那你要怎麼樣如何幫助兩線金權怎麼樣協助女性在勞動市場方面她可以更安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11079.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11102.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
他很願意更走出來你帶他去協助嘛好不好你把方案給我好不好你把方案給本席謝謝因為等一下要處理臨時提案所以不好意思那跟證宣告我們等一下在李燕秀委員質詢結束處理臨時提案好那接下來請林月琴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11113.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11116.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
有請我們的部長請部長我來自民間一直在從事兒少工作那過去也在那個到現在也是還是台少盟的理事長那過去我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11134.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11155.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
調查就是根據我們的調查裡邊大概發現18歲以下進修部的學生他會去工作主要的原因在經濟匱乏包括要負擔自己的生活費賺自己的零用錢跟分擔家計那不是因為貪玩或是而要去就業是因為經濟壓力而要去就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11156.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11178.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以那有93的比例在16歲已經有了第一份工作而且是初次求職者可是呢只有的薪資是符合基本工資那是不知道勞動條件規定的也不知道有納保有勞保然後常遇到不當對待勞動條件普遍惡劣 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11182.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11208.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
是10%曾在工作當中受傷10.7%曾受傷送醫12%曾在深夜照理講10點後他不應該是上班曾在深夜或凌晨工作職業安全真的是看慮所以想問在這麼劣質的環境當中他自己都沒有辦法察覺說他原來的工作環境薪酬不夠沒達到基本工資又沒有勞健保那 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11209.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11228.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
受傷之後又求助無門所以想問部長這邊目前勞動部如何對這些青少年做勞動教育還有你的管道是什麼一年有多少人受惠談的事實上是勞動條件嗎職業安全嗎社會保險跟救濟管道是什麼那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11229.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11250.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
勞動部的1995的申訴管道有沒有接線去年2023年因為我們2022年在國際委員來審查CRC的時候就提起說申訴制度那去年各部會都要回應這個申訴制度的時候我那時候在民間也提出來說而勞動部你有沒有針對於青少年服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11251.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11274.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
的這個專線來接否則青少年有時候在問話方式跟一般有時候政府部門的回答轉線轉的他們事實上是沒辦法去理解甚至轉線當中他也不知道說這些轉線的人在跟他對應那一樣的你有沒有督導各縣市勞工局勞動局這邊有沒有適切的申訴管道這個在 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11275.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11277.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11306.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11327.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我先講宣導的方式就是我們多元然後包括我記得剛剛有個資訊部長多元應該要去切中當要求職的人否則的話否則為什麼我們調查這麼多青少年事實上是受騙的甚至他被不當對待的時候他求助包括也辦那個宣導會我記得112你剛剛有個資料辦了好幾場 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11331.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11345.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對我知道我要講的先分層次啦第一個我們多元管道宣導另外我們到校園從國小國中高中到大學我們也有做各種不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11346.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11347.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11363.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11388.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們都會有專案的勞調檢查就是會針對因為寒暑假都是這些經濟弱勢學生打工比較多所以我們會去做這些檢查部長在的時候是不是把這些相關事上是提供給我這邊那因為有時候宣導也要去檢討到底效能怎樣否則的話現在持續還是有這些問題發生我們會用年輕人比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11389.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11405.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
接觸接觸的方式要關心我們的年輕人因為這一群事實上是為了家計而進入到勞動市場的人而不能默示他們可能是會雪上加霜如果少年持續在這種狀況底下他負擔家計的時候他如果又受傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11406.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11420.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那現在當然我們覺得只在這邊你們會去做處理可是沒有拿到最低基本工資我覺得這有點不太妥是這個不行這個有多重那就麻煩部長那接下來就看到那個非勞動人口我認為應該要積極就業來作為你 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11423.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11451.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
的所謂的促進對象為什麼這樣講就我們現在主動發現問題不是透過數字來引力問題喔因為你如果是就業率如果不扣除我們的非勞動力人口的時候這數據是有相差的喔因為我覺得勞動部主業透過這種勞動統計來了解國人勞動狀況OK可是國人最關心的就是就業率跟失業率可是當你把這個非勞動人力排除之後呢的確看起來數字很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11452.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11468.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11469.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11498.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
接下來就來看這個15歲到24歲齁不過在這邊也請勞動部要知道齁中錯事實上是國民義務教育齁才叫中錯你們的新聞稿都一直在講中錯中離是講國中生非義務教育的我們比較要關心的是這15歲到24歲不過國中生以下如果去就業的話那童工又是另外一個問題齁可是你們的新聞稿先以後要記得要更正不可以講中錯應該是中離生那中離生這一塊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11499.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11499.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
而針對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11501.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11528.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
他們目前的狀態在就業的時候有沒有因為你們已經是在111年12月19號就公布弱勢青少年的慈愛準備計畫那我現在想問現在成效如何那做的狀況而且如何定義弱勢是家庭總收入還有我覺得去年不錯的是勞動部已經提出少年就業計畫可是我現在在你們官網上找不到這個是一個不錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11529.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11545.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11545.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11566.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
否則的話這幾年來一直以來都是我們民間在募款在做逆風少年逆風少年讓青少年就業我們是去輔導他那怎麼會是那我覺得去年勞動部已經沒有置身事外認為你們不是局外人要來做這些事情的時候很好啊可是至今到現在我還是在網站上找不到那團體更是找不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11567.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11584.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
一件事我們木款給團體來申請可是現在變成是你政府要承擔很好可是我到現在還是沒有看到那另外一群我們更擔心的是現在我們收到一些訊息55歲被很多我們的市場機制裡邊去淘汰掉了強迫被 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11585.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11585.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
謝謝部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11618.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11621.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
謝謝林月晴委員接下來請伍麗華委員謝謝主席有請部長請許部長部長好如您所知道的其實從今年的1月起 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11644.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11667.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
農業部的這個老年老農津貼他又調高了那也就是說從過去91年4000其實來到今年可以領到8080那這個是在農保條例裡面呢就是有特別在第5條有談到除了農會的會員之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11668.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11690.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
只要年滿15歲以上沒有去領取相關的各種社會保險老年給付都可以來參加農保那以我們原住民來講我們最喜歡的就是農保那哪一些相關的保險呢像公保沒有勞保沒有軍保或者是沒有國民年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11691.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11716.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那我這邊會問這個問題部長是因為有一個案例那後來發現這樣的人很多還真不少以這個老人家為例他是民國31年出生在他41歲的時候那個時候經濟起飛很多的原住民呢都到都會區去工作那他呢是去做吃的參加了廚師工會 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11717.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11735.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那後來年紀大了他就要回家鄉那個時候工會呢就跟他說你可以結親老寶領取一次性的老年給付他也很高興那領了回去之後呢一直到現在他已經82歲了他一直都在務農 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11736.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11736.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
獲得獎項獎項 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11756.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11784.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
台灣原住民族經濟狀況調查這是112年去年6月底的一個資料你可以看到我們原住民從事農林漁牧業的是占最高當然跟從事營建工程的也很多不相上下另外他也提到我們負責主要的維持家計生計的是60歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11785.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11806.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
也就是說對原住民族群來講我們到60歲以後其實都還需要繼續工作繼續來承擔家裡的主要生計所以我想要請教一下部長您聽到這樣的一個案例而且還真不少我講的是老人家你覺得他該不該領取老農津貼他沒有任何的社會保險他誤農他誤農 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11813.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11821.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
沒有沒有這樣的長者還真不少他就是那個時候離開工廠對他領完了因為如果按照我們現在法令的規定是他有領過老年給付的話他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11835.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11835.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
委員這個是老農津貼的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11852.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11867.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
是是我沒有關係我現在就是要來問您以他當時的投保薪資去算的話他是做了15年所以他當年是一次領了23萬多那他這個當事人呢他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11868.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11881.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
後來呢我們去看一下吼他當時是56歲退嘛吼所以呢他目前的狀況如果他可以去領老農津貼他大概還沒有到4年就已經超過他當時的23萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11883.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11903.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
如果以他現在他82歲吼他已經可以領將近一百五十萬如果以我們原住民的平均餘命我們目前平均餘命吼是七十八歲他也可以領到一百一十二萬多好那現在我們來看一下因為我們的農保條例告訴他我們如果要去請領 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11905.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11932.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
農今天他其實所有的條件都符合他唯一的一個條件不符合就是說要持續加保他曾經參加過農保那他回來之後他也是繼續務農但是他有一個條件不符合就是要持續加保所以呢他也跑去農會一直要加保可是農會呢告訴他說這邊有寫他說他已領取老年給付他說請於條例修正後再參加農保 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11934.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11941.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
所以部長您就知道為什麼我要來請教您吼那部長我去年10月呢其實也曾經到農業部問過我們的農業部部長現在我是同樣的問題我要請教你為什麼您聽聽看農業部長當時是這麼說他說對 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11951.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11968.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
他本身在現在相關的規定上面是無法適用的我們會後去看這個部分是否真正的具有公平性如果是有公平性我們會解釋如果是屬於被遺漏的一群相對的就是該用什麼樣的規定去處理如果是農業部的相關規定農業部會炒你這個是當時農業部長所以您也同意嗎因為他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11977.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12004.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
只要勞動部：後來他們研擬的相關辦法是說只要勞動部願意繳回當時的老年給付就可以那我就要請教部長您的意見如何報告委員這個是我們法定的規定我沒有辦法來說支不支持因為現在法定規定就是你領了之後合覆了以後就不能變更啊所以沒有說所謂我可以再收回然後他再另外去 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12004.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12006.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
不是部長農業部那個地方因為他有他的農保條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12021.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12041.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那現在我再翻回那個農保條例我再念給您聽一次他在農保條例第5條第二款非前向農會會員年滿15歲以上從事農業工作之農民未領取相關社會保險老年給付者得參加本保險嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12043.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12071.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那現在我們農會他就是因為根據這個農保條例他就是覺得說他告訴他說這個可能要等修法之後你才可以回來參加農保嗎那現在農業部他也覺得他們是被漏接的一群嗎也願意來研擬就他們研擬呢他們提供的是說如果我們勞動部這邊針對我們的這個一次性老年給付如果他願意 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12072.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12081.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
叫回去你們可不可以讓這樣的長者這個沒有辦法用韓式來解決這個是法令的明文規定那您認為要怎麼修 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12084.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12090.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我希望您會同農業部能夠一起去共商然後呢去延長可行的方案然後讓老保投保年資或老年 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12113.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12113.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12139.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12163.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個是法令的規範沒關係啦委員會跟農業部來因為他們的確是被漏接的一群而且我希望去算一下其實這樣的人不多因為有的像年輕的他其實可以去國民年金那邊但是像這樣的長者是沒有辦法因為他已經過了年紀好不好是不是請勞動部會後再跟委員再跟委員這邊來說明好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12168.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12178.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
謝謝吳麗華委員接下來請李燕秀委員感謝教委請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12183.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12198.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
部長在上一次的我們勞動部的工作報告當中我提出來我們失業率整體是降低的我看到你的工作報告內容確實沒有錯但是包括我們15歲到29歲失業率其實在金融海嘯之後我們也創了新低 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12202.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12230.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
這些其實都是事實沒有錯但是我覺得勞動部還有一個更關鍵的數據跟報告沒有呈現在上一次的我們勞動部工作報告當中就是我們非典型的就業人口在過去4年來創了新高達到80.6萬人這一塊數據其實佔整體勞動力的比例未來部長你覺得非典型就業人口在未來會增加還是會減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12230.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12247.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你預估你感覺到我覺得現在的現在年輕人啊都對工作自由的這個那個選擇會是他的決定工作的之類的很重要的考量的因素啦那所以未來有可能會增加我是覺得對 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12248.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12263.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
對你跟我的看法一樣我們看韓國我們看日本非典型的就業人口應該是往上在走的趨勢因為很多年現在就他希望有彈性工時要更靈活這個就是未來當然非典型有不同的不同的就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12263.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12263.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
獲得的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12288.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12305.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
部長你同不同意包括像之前我們常常在開會討論包括UberEat跟Foodpanda他們常常我自己在基層走的時候我常常聽到外送人在跟我講說他們常常被片面的去調降外送獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12306.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12328.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
就突然一個公告就是說這個月要調價或者是增加外送的里程數這個是不是叫做片面的修改這個勞動條件這個算嗎你同意嗎我們這邊勞資糾紛接受到這樣的資訊跟曾經的建樹多不多報告委員這個部分一發現有這個問題馬上就要透過我們一個對話平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12330.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12350.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我們這幾年就有建立那個我們的外送業者跟那個這些外送工會的一個對話平台針對相關的爭議包括像說多碼對不對重點是多碼對所以我更認為在非典型的就業的模式上我覺得我們應該要有更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12351.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12362.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
法規也好來去保障勞工相關的權益你同嗎所以我們以前一直在說派遣法要怎麼修那你們的看法到底如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12363.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12383.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
之前那個因為外送跟派遣這個可能不太一樣派遣的部分我們那時候因為常常都是假承攬真僱傭對假承攬真僱傭這幾塊其實都是我們現在勞動部接下來面臨很大的挑戰跟問題我記得我們剛上任我們一起努力做了一些法規上的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12384.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12404.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那但是外送這一塊我是跟委員報告就是說的確這一塊不容易啦一直有人希望我們立專法的這個呼這個呼籲所以你到底做不可以做嗎這個我你你受到哪些你不能做的理由是什麼樣外界知道因為我在基層我都答應說我會把你們爭取權益是我覺得我不能讓你們你們的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12404.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12404.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12428.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12450.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我知道,你說了這個都要回去做,但對外送員來說他可能這是他的第二份工作第三份工作因為薪資不夠嘛但是片面的去修正如何在他們這個勞僱的過程當中保障更大的權益更多的權益我們因應的方式到底是什麼我覺得要更具體否則 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12452.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12477.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我之前那個我之前當立委是4年前那個是我們4年前的修法但這幾年可能投入這些外送員的那個對那是派遣的部分派遣也好外送也好越來越多所以我覺得我們的法律是要越走越往前去進步去涵蓋照顧這些勞工的範圍要更多才對我們現在就是先透過對話的機制剛剛我講的那個平台他其實也有發揮到效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12481.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12497.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
有對平台業者有達成約束的一個效果所以但是長期我們會去考量用怎麼樣的機制什麼機制因為這個機制我等很久部長我不是在考你因為現在外送人員越來越多派錢的人越來越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12498.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12524.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
所以我們不能原地踏步四年前我覺得我們有做一些努力但是過去這四年我看到這一塊是很空的就是說我們沒有在法規裡面涵蓋照顧他們的權益要照顧的更多所以我在等待就是說既然未來非典型的就業人口我們也預估它是會越來越多的所以在法規我們的因應方式到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12525.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12530.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
不管是派遣 非典裡面分很多 那我們的因應方式是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12531.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12555.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這個我未來齁 積極我不用大聲跟你講但你非常清楚這一塊年輕人非常重視這一塊他們也都在等年輕人為什麼這一次那麼多人不支持你們我邊走我邊在路上在敗票都天天看到他們在罵民進黨所以這一塊要做好因為投入這一塊市場很多都是年輕人部長我提醒你快走好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12561.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12586.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
好謝謝李恩秀委員那我們現在處理臨時提案總共有3案請一併宣讀臨時提案第一案鑒於促進新住民就業補助作業要點第二條第三項第一款所指新住民排除了規劃取得國籍之外役外籍配偶導致超過14萬新住民因此喪失參加勞發署所開設新住民專班之資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12586.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12615.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
故未能由勞動部全額補助其訓練費用．並獲發職業訓練生活津貼．原此建請勞動部於兩個月內研議修正．促進新住民就業補助作業要點．放寬第二條第三項第一款所指之新住民範圍．納入規劃取得國籍之外國人可行性．確保政府照顧新住民群體之美意得以落實提案人委員徒全吉聯署人委員盧憲一邱振軍第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12616.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12644.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
建於我國新住民已經成為臺灣社會重要的新興族裔為勞動部並為針對新住民進行就業調查原此建請勞動部於兩個月內研議針對新住民群體進行年度就業調查之可行性並報告立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會確保政府照顧新住民群體之美意得以落實提案人委員徒全吉聯署人委員盧憲一邱振軍第三案 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12645.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12668.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
一外國人從事就業服務法第46條第一項第8款至第11款工作資格及審查標準第12條規定僅由家戶成員符合有三名以上之年零六歲以下子女或有四名以上之年零十二歲以下子女且其中二名為年零六歲以下條件之一且累計點數滿16點者使得申請招募或承接外國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12669.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12691.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
上述規定不符合現今國內家庭多為小家庭或少子女之現狀為減緩臺灣家庭壓力原要求勞動部於3個月內研議放寬審查標準修正相關規定符合臺灣家庭現況所需之方案向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提出書面報告提案人委員蘇清泉、邱振鈞、陳金輝宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12696.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12704.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
呃請問第一案行政單位有無意見第一案沒有意見沒有意見齁那委員OK啦齁好那呃照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12707.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12734.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
那請問第二案行政單位或委員有意見報告委員會第二案的文字那也跟委員這邊做溝通是不是建議做部分修正那倒數第三行原來是並報告社會福利及推動委員會就是報告改成向並向社會福利及衛生環境委員會那後面加提出書面報告那後面文字沒有修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12735.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12737.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
請問提案委員有沒有意見?無異議就遭案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12760.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12784.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好那呃是不是請圖委員剛剛你們又後來又加了幾個文字第一案吼就照照修正文字通過好好好好那那個呃剛剛第一案就照文字修正通過好那第二案也是圖委員這邊剛就 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12786.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12807.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那也是照文字修正通過那接下來第三案第三案跟葛委員報告因為很多委員在關心因為邦庸的這個申請的資格的點數那因為過去這個議題因為社會確實有非常多不同意見那因為也擔心到對婦女的就業或是說對幼兒成長造成影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12808.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12836.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
因為現在這個整個點數因為過去因為大概長期在執行之後可能跟設備現況因為可能有一些單親或雙親家庭因為有一些家庭照顧上的問題所以他確實有一些意見是說是這個點數比較做一些檢討那這個提案我們跟委員有溝通因為原來委員是說要把它降到一點那我們認為這一點可能會影響衝擊太大那也建議就是說可能要比較留一些後面的演繹的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12837.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12854.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以在這個文字上我們是建議就是是不是讓我們來跟社會各界就是來研議這個這個標準這個相關的標準然後符合社會的現況跟相關的一個現實的一個情形那請提案委員蘇清泉委員謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12861.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12888.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
現在有人要生孩子 要叫人生四個孩子孩子要六個孩子 你要生四個孩子 什麼12個孩子 這個太糟糕了 存期委員自己三個小孩 他都沒有資格申請你要再叫人生 要再叫人上班 要再怎麼樣 這個是太糟糕的 所以一定要一定要你不要給我 顏議員你又走回頭路 不行耶 部長這樣不行喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12890.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12905.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
所以這個留空間讓你們去演繹我沒有意見但是一定要放寬啦這個很重要很重要以上那那個第三案是不是有文字好書芬好書芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12913.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12940.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
各位我們支持不管是育兒還是老人都要有人照顧當然我們講說這個開放家事服務工看護工到底是不是我們從看護老人開始看就知道外傭外籍移工不是解方否則老人在那裡現在每天在那裡吵架的很多那整個國家不管然後也沒有配套那像這個一個月你 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12941.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12944.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
一兩萬塊的薪水事實上我們請過那個看護工都知道不是兩萬塊現在這個私底下成本你沒有到三萬是不行的可是如果你這個家庭看這個幫傭兩萬塊也不可能然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12957.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12972.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
三萬塊你叫他要做家事要煮三餐然後還在一打二然後照顧兩個小孩還24小時週休零天可能週休零天給加班費就沒有了然後可能年休年休看看有沒有幾天我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12973.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12996.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
每一個照顧小孩的這個外籍幫傭可能最後都想要轉換僱主然後就每天跟你玩雞然後就說我要去廠工那裡我要去產業界產業界工時禮拜一到禮拜五即便是加班也有紙淨的時候不是無紙無淨不是一天24小時產業界的勞工加班薪水還比較高一個月零五萬六萬然後呢他可以週休至少一日 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12997.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13024.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
一例一休也是至少一日然後他遇到這個該休的都有勞基法保障所以這種狀況裡面你要做家事然後又要無職無盡半夜小孩考答又起來過一天理系休息然後呢又要煮三餐然後一打二到時候這個額略的狀況也會出現啦然後領這麼少還要顧足完結要勞一直勞但我們不是在講這個而已我不是要講這個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13025.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13043.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們要講的不只是我說外籍幫傭不是萬靈丹不是一勞永逸然後你要想誰需要你要工作因為不能因為生小孩而失去工作不能夠因為生小孩而失去工作這種經濟需求這麼強烈的人不能離職的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13047.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13056.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
他們有能力去聘請這個外籍幫傭嗎?你給他們吃頭肉就不行了,一定要去吃頭肉才能夠支付一家所需的人。這樣的婦女有能力申請到外籍幫傭嗎?申請得到他們現在新的年輕人家裡有足夠的房間可以讓這個外籍幫傭一起睡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13071.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13088.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
喔居住空間夠嗎所以這樣的政策到底是真正的解決的方法嗎那我更不要講說現在的這個婦女的本國的中高齡的婦女的二度就業其實就是倒載服務和家事清潔在這種狀況裡面破壞我們還知道現在育兒照顧倒載服務的保姆等等都還需要證照制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13098.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13118.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
而你破壞現在的政策制度找一個外傭來就可以吃喝拉撒睡我當媽媽的時候我也是兩個小孩的時候我就你知道我最想做的是什麼嗎我最想做就是去上班因為在家裡面要做家事要照顧小孩要照顧兩個小孩我心力交瘁我寧願去上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13120.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13144.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以我覺得上班是休息那你覺得那個那個幫傭他他不會這麼想嗎發生惡虐的時候怎麼辦然後語言不通怎麼辦教養上怎麼辦然後把專業的照顧變成好像只是隨隨便便都可以做這不是走回頭路嗎那你到底有多少從業人員會失業然後我再講一個我們現在長照是一個福利政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13145.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13163.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但我們都知道長照最終要銜接到保險制度而如果大家長照跟長照一樣大量的這個看護工在那裡要銜接過去是很困難的如果你再繼續放寬再繼續放寬我跟你講長照的保險制度是不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13163.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13167.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
而這這樣變成什麼你知道變成窮老人窮失能的人沒有人照顧因為沒有國家級的社會保險沒有這個長照保險然後就是有在調請的都去請多了沒有在調請的沒人顧沒的變成家裡面最可憐的那個老女人繼續顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13183.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13200.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以這種狀況裡面我們以前車之間來看這個這個而照的從業人員他會被衝擊到那如果外籍幫用就可以解決了那我們公共托育也不用做了公共托育也不用做了嗎全部都靠外用來就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13201.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13215.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
所以請了外傭的就外傭請不起了公共托育公共托育品質會不會每況愈下因為大家覺得資源不用花那麼多有錢人都已經有外傭了其他就隨便做一做所以我的意思是說我們認為這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13217.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13237.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
大家社會會有這種狀況都是因為政府政府做得太少所以才產生這個問題所以讓我們在這裡工作跟育兒只能折衣可是你要想到經濟最弱勢的他工作跟育兒都不能折衣啊他都必須要都要有所以我們在想說這個彈性親子嫁啦等等啦這個配套要要做得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13244.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13247.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
這個這已經刻不容緩了所以保證你的長照這個以外你的親子價 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13254.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13260.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
要到12歲的,到12歲的,也不是外傭過你過到六歲而已,六歲之後北部就不用再過孩子了嗎?就不用再參與了嗎?就沒有親子嫁的需求了嗎?當然有啊,啊這外傭開放了以後可以解決6到12歲的嗎?也沒辦法啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13274.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13287.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
所以說起碼要有政府啦 政府的角色要進來 不管是照顧老的還是照顧小的最重要是政府要拿出手段 啊現在在搞公共化 損公共化啊現在還要再開放說那幫傭多一點 公共化還需要做嗎 弄個外傭全部你都補助外傭 補助申請外傭就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13298.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13325.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
然後一個外傭顧兩個主婚打掃還要24小時全年無休看他會不會吃光然後你再社福人力再增加一點額略就又出來了所以我的意思是說這是誇張極致但是我們今天要突顯的是政府該有的制度面要進來啦不是只有服務說經濟能力好的家庭空間夠的那經濟能力差的家庭空間不夠的人要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13326.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13334.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我難道我就沒有生小孩的權利嗎?難道我就沒有照顧兩個的權利嗎?然後政府都不用進來幫忙照顧嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13337.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13361.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
大概是這樣子林淑芬委員剛剛我們署長有特別提案第三案臨時提案有做文字修正那是不是文字修正完之後讓蘇委員看過委員報告因為有跟蘇委員這邊溝通所以原來委員所提的這個累計點數一點這部分這個也同意修正那這個修正之後就給予我們一些空間我們來跟社會各界再來做一些研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13363.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13364.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
主席有請部長請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13390.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13409.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
市長好上次我在質詢的時候有提出過這個我們的移工失聯總數那你那時候跟我的回答說不能只看失聯總數要看失聯率嘛對不對那我想請教一下你知道我們去年的移工總數是722622人一月那失聯是80643人失聯率是11.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13419.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13447.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那今年的失聯率是11.36所以看起來今年1月比去年1月失聯率還是比較高啊我當時跟你說的是整年度啦就112跟111去比因為基本上失聯率是在變化嘛對不對那我是拿我們通常失聯率是會統計整年這個去看說有沒有今年的失聯率是一個時間點就可以看失聯率嘛不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13449.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13464.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
對阿好沒關係我要跟您講就說我們現在一定要再努力啦對對顯然不只總數啦移工失聯率這樣看至少以今年1月跟去年1月比較也在增加所以這顯示我們政府的移工管理政策我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13465.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13482.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
好像給外界的感覺就開放的越多啊失聯的就越多所以現在我們講說這個印度移工的開放問題啊我那邊請那個部長可以跟我們保證一下在移工失聯率明顯改善降低之前你可能還要再審慎一下吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13486.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13499.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我們到時候在工作小組會來就相關的你能不能給我一個所以明確的保證就是說如果失聯率沒有明顯改善之前不會貿然開放印度的移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13500.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13527.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
外界現在最大質疑就是說其中一個就是說你這後端你沒有管好報告委員因為這是兩個議題就是說我們開放印度移工我一直在講到其實這個是多一個來源國讓僱主多一個選擇降低我們當然這個是兩個議題可是這兩個議題有相關聯性然後移工的失聯我們也一定會努力來把它的失聯人數努力把它降低上次其實我大概就跟那個部長討論過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13529.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13550.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
委員會發言說實質上這些年來這個不要講移工的失聯人數越來越多像我看失聯率也在增加嘛所以這種情況之下你不能怪社會大眾對你沒信心吧報告委員因為失聯率因為剛剛委員舉的是去年單月跟今年的1月單月這樣比較沒有關係那你把整個年度所有年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13552.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13573.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
這個的那個數字再提供給我好不好 可以可以可以我想請教下一個問題請教您我上次也問到一個就是有關於引渡引渡印度移工的部分我說目前這個連一位懂印地語烏爾都語的司法同意都沒有那請問有去了解一下嗎 報告委員因為我們基本上會以先引進 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13577.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13597.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我上次已經說過事實上印度來說的話他當然官方語言他憲法所載的語言就22個那其實有很多的重要的語言不只是英語啦他英語大概有占十分之12%大概有1.5億人懂英文的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13597.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13622.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以我未來在就引進一個我們希望說在能夠讓雙方比較容易溝通適應會先歡迎你會把英語作為一個門檻我們會把英語作為一個就是優先的選項了解我想請教這個部長下一個問題那我看這次的業務報告很多在講托育的部分那我想請教您我看到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13623.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13639.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
勞動部業務報告把112年補助了453家企業辦理托兒措施跟設施列為政績可是為什麼沒有講到所謂的僱主辦理托兒設施跟措施的成長率呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13640.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13665.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
成長率上對不過我在我看你2018到2025年你是講說補助的加速都達到目標值嗎那達成值是目標值的兩倍嗎可是這五年裡每一年的雇主辦理托兒那個設施或措施成長率平均成長率只有1.4個百分點那我就看到數量雖然倍增了補助數量可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13666.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13688.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這個成長率沒有什麼變動好那這個補助效果就出現一些問題我有看到一些根本的問題請部長研究了好就說事實上在勞動部補助那個相關的作業區之裡面他有一個規定是員工在99人以下的企業優先補助啊但從數據來看的話你的相關補助在2018到2022年號 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13690.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13710.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
一百名員工以上拿走九成二那佔走了四成的百人以下企業只拿百分之八那我覺得這個只補助大企業忽略小企業的部分可能也要稍微檢討一下好不好好以上謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝羅志強委員接下來請牛許廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13721.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13727.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好 謝謝主席我們等一下投影片不好意思這個勞動部長有請謝謝請許部長您好部長這個無安辛苦了今天一樣要聊一下這個有關於移工的這個議題因為桃園本身是移工非常大的一個居住的環境所以說移工管理的品質其實會影響桃園市民的生活品質所以今天針對幾個題目來就教勞動部的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13751.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13762.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
第一個我們當然大家啦包含我們在做這個政策的研究調查的時候其實發現我們大部分的研究焦點還是放在移工為什麼會失聯嘛然後把失聯移工變成一個政策重點那 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13763.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13792.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
當然啦我覺得我們不要頭痛一頭腳痛一腳啦現在的狀況是這樣因為失聯移工的數量實在太多了然後本期是內政委會的委員移民署也常常在訴苦專情隊人力500人失聯移工數量是8萬多人而且還有在繼續增加的可能性所以這是問題如果我們不從問題的根源去下手的話恐怕這問題永遠解決不完你抓檢舉也好或抓也好大概也是抓沒有完所以移工問題的三大原因這其實監察院也有提相關的報告所以第一個問題大概叫待遇不佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13793.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13813.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
所以走投無路嘛第二個叫做彈性不足也就是有關於自由轉換工作的一些配套其實還不是那麼的完善第三個是財務壓力當然來自於很多停額周顯或者是直接講無良仲介當初在引入的時候就對於移工本人收高額仲介費以至於他們在來台之前就背了大量的債務那這幾個綜合因素下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13814.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13835.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
就就變亡命之徒啦因為走投無路啊我按照正常的法規流程去做正常的工作待遇又不好我又沒有辦法這個趕得上有些是甚至是放高利貸這樣一個狀況那當然就挺而走險啊然後有些狀況檢察院的報告也講你在失聯的狀況之下賺的搞不好比合法的還多啊所以這三件事情呢其實本期是希望這個勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13837.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13846.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
你要持續的提出解決方案嘛我們要把這部分這三個問題解決完之後你才有辦法壓制住這事件移工的數量嘛所以針對這三個問題勞動部現在有沒有什麼精進的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13848.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13871.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
簡單回答一下因為我們還有後面的題目報告委員其實移工在產業移工部分他近來一定是適用基本工資這個沒有問題主要是家庭看護工這個部分他其實不適用勞基法因為包括我們本國家事工也一樣不適用但是在前年因為本來是17000我也把他提高到20000提高到20000 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13871.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13900.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那未來當然針對這些待遇的問題我們會去滾動的檢討就是基本上經濟因素也是很重要的一個從那個進步的價值來講當然慢慢慢慢要一致嘛要有非其次的待遇但本席也明白啦他這知識體大嘛這跟我們國家的經濟相關使用家庭都是比較弱勢的也有弱勢家庭的問題我同意所以本席希望啦多放一點重點在解決他們本人的財務壓力上也就是針對仲介嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13900.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13922.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
對那你要該做定時的查核跟查緝嘛去了解到底有沒有哪些人在做這樣的事情然後又有押照的狀況我們國內我們是不容許我們是嚴格在查這個如果有這種情形是我們是縱罰然後甚至是撤照這是都是用很嚴密的手段因為時間有限針對這一部分就有關於仲介的管理你如何去避免這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13924.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13941.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
的財務壓力然後逼的移工走投無路的狀況發生是不是會後提供一個書面報告給本席也提供當然就順便提供給衛航委員會委員讓他們做問證參考好不好這第一個好第二個本席其實今天更重要的講的是沒有失聯的移工我不要講管理講管理好像有點上對下不太好不太尊重要輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13942.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13968.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
因為現在我們了解的狀況是大概手續辦完之後經濟部希望繼續產業發展多開放勞動部的配合辦理等等那進來之後如果遇到問題丟個移民署查緝可是問題是沒有失聯的移工如果沒有長期的對話沒有長期去關注他們的狀況沒有進行一定的輔導措施他其實也會造成若干社會問題我舉幾個簡單的例子比如說他們不知道不能在10點以後在公園唱卡拉OK比如說他們不知道這個微型電動二輪車不能亂停 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13969.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13992.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
這不是歧視的意思他可能在他的國家沒有相關的法源可是在台灣的環境裡面這個是不被台灣的社區所接受的所以這種界面的融入啊如果沒有長時間的追蹤沒有說我定期的去做宣導也好或者是協助他們融入的時候即便他是沒有失聯的移工他也會有沒有辦法融入的問題也會讓成本外部化 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13992.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14013.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那第二個我講的是從他們的人權的角度來看部長應該清楚啦我想這我們就打開天窗說亮話有沒有雇主他弄進來之後然後一大堆移工住在一個鐵皮屋裡面的應該是有吧對不對這實際上來講是蠻不人道的待遇那當然他們可能基於要打拼討生活他可以接受可是終究來講這不是一個進步的作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14014.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14033.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那這些凡此種種都是他來到台灣工作之後才開始發生衍生出這一堆問題難道我們的政府不應該有一定的角色嗎部長我們現在針對沒有失聯的移工我們的定期的輔導機制是什麼我們有沒有要求台灣的雇主你在享受相對低廉的人力成本的時候有負擔更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14033.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14050.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
責任輔導的責任跟義務有沒有這樣子的一些說法請簡單說明一下報告委員像我們各地方政府都有訪查員剛進來的移工剛入國我們一定會去了解他整個生活的狀況然後雇主在移工的管理上他也要善盡他的責任這個部分我們都會去 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14051.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14078.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
有相關的規定去要求那如果沒有也有相關的一些處罰然後包括移工的權益包括了解本國的法令或者他本身的權益問題我們都有透過多元的管道包括他們多餘的我從那個報告裡面你就看到當初就講說一站式服務也就是入境的時候就把這次處理完了可是我恰恰覺得這是有問題的因為他不應該是一站式服務他不應該一次處理完他反而應該是定期的訪視定期的了解狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14079.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14100.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
好不好一樣因為時間到了啦我也不要耽誤會議時間針對僱主在這一部分的輔導管理的一些責任還有仲介業者也許在裡面也要擔負一定的社會責任嘛對不對有沒有給產業一定的管理準則或者是義務這些部分我也要求會後好不好你會長資料我們來長期追蹤可以嗎我們一起來解決這個問題讓移工可以好好的融入台灣社會可以嗎好謝謝部長辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14103.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14119.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
謝謝牛委員齁那我們中午不休息大家可以用餐齁那如果想要上廁所也不用就可以直接直接去齁我們中午就不休息啦這樣可以嗎部長可以可以啦齁OK好那我們接下來請劉建國委員好謝謝趙委又請部長請許部長部長要不要先吃便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14132.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14153.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
委員好部長好部長我想今天要來跟討論就是這個缺工問題還有中高齡及高齡者的就業的促進我想中高齡及高齡者的就業促進法也在你的任內推動完成那我們到事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14153.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14172.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我簡單講幾個背景的資料然後我們來做一個警示嘛齁這個人力銀行的相關的資料說臺灣已住宿餐飲零售電子資訊軟體半導體以及一般製造業陷入嚴重的缺工狀態那我們報告裡面說這波缺工潮起因於3年前的疫情 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14174.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14200.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
導致各行各業人力流失疫情結束後民眾消費力回復但產業界人力流失的缺口卻無法及時補充導致缺工情況發生這是你們報告你認可嗎講到這邊你認可嗎缺工廠是因為這三年的疫情所造成的主因嗎還是這三年之後才有這個缺工廠是因為疫情的關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14201.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14224.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
包括少子化,勞動力缺口也不斷的擴大但是我們可能是針對疫情之後因為有一些產業它缺工一直補不足啦尤其像餐飲服務業我們是特別針對這部分來做說明應該藝術蠻多的啦但是只有單純寫這樣我是覺得不夠周全了是不是貴部瞭解還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14227.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14251.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
所以所以好那我們就前面就不談我們台後面的那部長認為你們評估起來這個缺工潮會多久?這樣大量缺工會不會成為台灣社會以後的常態?這個會更嚴峻啦因為早子化以後這個我就覺得整個人口勞動力人口他其實一直一直會降低的對阿你們部要怎麼做這個因應? |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14253.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14273.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
因為我們要開放一些勞動力,比如說包括青年的部分,婦女在就業,還有中高齡高齡者,我們是比較小心把它定義成壯世代希望他們能續留職場或重返職場,那也希望說僱主能夠善用這些壯世代的勞動力,不要有這個憐憫歧視的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14275.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14286.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
撞四代勞動力現在撞四代勞動力是我覺得是政府好像完全沒有辦法去掌控而且引導上的力道也是非常薄弱的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14287.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14308.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們其實一直在推計畫啦吼那像我們現在有發覺到說55歲以上的這個勞參率喔比起韓日大概低了到20%所以我們現在有推一個壯世代的一個計畫希望能夠三年計畫希望能夠在這三年內多增加30萬的這個55歲以上壯世代能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14313.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14341.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
進入到職場來提高他的勞參率你先把他定位55歲以上叫做壯士代然後你預計多久要提高到30萬可以進到職場3年3年內了對從2024年開始起算去年去年就起算了去年5月開始ok去年5月那到現在快也將近快1年了嘛剩下幾個就1年嘛對那30萬到目前實際上有進入到這個陳主委所講的壯士代對有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14343.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14346.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
站比是多少?這30萬的站比是多少?大概19萬已經進到19萬了那效益不錯啊19萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14356.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14361.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我要修正一下,這個是除外是中高齡以上,但是55歲的我要再請他們的數據再 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14375.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14396.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
再分離一下你現在是講中高齡,中高齡就從45歲到64歲嘛對不對?對對對阿所以這個要再算啦那剛剛對數字不對我看了一下那不是不是壯士代55如果這樣就不需要再引進那個移工進來了嘛對不對?如果照這樣的力道阿就是我們移工還是對於缺工這是得證了 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14397.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14410.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
移工是針對本國人不願意從事的產業那我們現在壯士在這個當然是希望不是不是不是部長我想那些背景資料你都比我清楚但是國會這邊有特別提到他在2033年臺灣整體的勞動力重心也將從現在的40到19歲轉移到50到59歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14419.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14445.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
就呼籲你剛才的講法也說臺灣在10年內整個勞動力的市長將產生這個天翻地覆的大變動所以國會事務組也曾公開表示人口的紅利減少的速度比預期快坦白講這句話我是很難接受政府的預期怎麼會預期的這麼不精準這其一其二政府預計要在2030年前引進40萬外來的人口就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14447.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14461.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這是國會講的才能解除警報喔所以我才會講說如果面對這樣的事情國會也這樣的對外做這樣的表達那我們的因應知道在勞動部的核心主要的政策是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14462.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14482.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那個報告委員剛剛國話會那個203040萬那個是中階以上的對包括白領灰領我們所謂灰領橋外生他是要在這8年內要希望引進40萬那像勞動部的部分就是中階技術人力我就是把現在在臺灣的藍領低階的這些勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14485.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14509.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
他具有技術他心智大一點的門檻現在他轉成中階技術人力來填補我們現在中階人力的不足他這個地方是這樣子我現在先說比較小的範圍因為特別提到中高齡及高齡者的就業蘇慶華也在部長任內來推動完成對不對你看一個數據老花鼠臺灣中高齡就業人口60到64歲都還有39.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14511.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14536.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
但是65歲以上就直接掉到9.6如果你對比其他的國家你自己看齁臺灣65歲以上的勞參率低了將近其他對比其他國家是19到37這明顯偏高嘛這你們認可嘛齁那不如今天在報告中也闡述啦齁中高齡就45到6歲勞參率有逐步在提升就曾委員剛才所講的嘛齁但但剛剛委員特別提到國會講 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14538.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14559.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
不到10點時間就是從40歲到19歲會轉移到50到59歲這個是我如果要檢視部長在推動中高齡及高齡的就業的這個政策有成效通過法律的制定然後推動整個執行面有成效還是還是這個整體的勞動力的重心已經朝向中高齡的區塊去做螺蟻到底是哪一個到底是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14562.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14576.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我要跟你討論是本質問題啦都會有對因為未來的勞動力恐怕還是會往中高年這邊靠因為出生少嘛我覺得部長不要誤判一般人要講三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14577.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14606.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我就講不要誤判N次啦齁如果中高齡的就業政策推得好齁65歲以上的長輩應該是現在會以半退休的狀況嘛對不對齁持續在職場上服務但是目前台灣為此的65歲退休之後沒事做的現在僅有9.6%還在職場服務所以我要跟部長討論是說你認為啦齁跟普遍職場仍然要求勞工必須要一個完整的勞動工時有沒有關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14608.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14634.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
有沒有?完整的勞動工時?對嘛!職長薩爾普遍認為勞動還是一個完整的勞動工時有沒有關係?這個我是覺得針對不同的好像這些世代應該有可能不同的勞動工時我現在針對高齡者跟高齡者高齡者他可能要有彈性的工時啦對阿你覺得你覺得現在的這樣的我們的這些環境對高齡者 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14635.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14655.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
有達到友善有達到彈性這部分還要在很大的努力空間很大的努力空間部長有回答問題了因為我覺得現在你看要讓65歲的這些高齡者因為體育上本身就有一些障礙了對不對然後他還要克服很多問題除此之外讓高齡者要有一個完整的8個工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14656.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14669.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
的這個時間來從事他的退休之後的就業的一個環境這既不友善也不健康所以他的勞參率當然就很低我是要從這部分跟部長來做一個討論那你看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14672.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14695.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我們責任時至於有一個統計嘛,台灣外送人員從2019年四萬五千人的人數增加到2022年的十四萬五千人等於三年成長百分之三百然後人力營養更發現外送人大多是來自這個製造業的基層跟餐飲業這個是一個板塊的很大很大的很快的速度在 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14695.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14718.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
在做一個轉移嘛對不對這是你們的資料嘛然後這個WTW2023的組織跟人才的關鍵報告中指出歷史代齁人才最關鍵的因素他不再是薪水而是職矮的發展機會他們相當在意公司是我提供彈性工時及和員工福利以及這個成功做內容找到這個使命感 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14720.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14741.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
這個是你們的資料支撐會在去年7到9月實行彈性工時的實驗一共有105位的同仁參加參加的員工一個月內要滿足168的總工時但不拘束員工的上下班時間和工作定點實驗的結果證實工作的產出跟表現並沒有變得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14742.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14744.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
對中高齡及高齡者的就業環境應該要有所來做這個因應才對嘛我是要很 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14760.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14783.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
很誠懇的提醒部長這事情齁那你們自己已有結合相關部會嘛齁在偏鄉推動這個婦女再就業計畫然後什麼婦女什麼兼顧家庭勞動部提供僱主公使調整獎勵還有公使調整獎勵嘛齁然後針對僱主提供有照顧家庭需求的婦女比較彈性公使調整其中就有舉出這個系統貴供應商的成功案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14785.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14813.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
然後李肅岳哲也併顧鍾高齡也提出了相對的這個彈性的工時多半是這個彈性工時的班表這個你們又有在做啊但是好像那個量能好像那個速度緩不濟急沒有辦法追過人口老化沒有辦法追過這些想要在給高齡者要從事這個就業的環境裡面提高他們的意願這個我覺得很大大的討論空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14815.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14840.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我是覺得雇主可能觀念的改變非常重要因為面對這個勞動力的短缺大家可能對於這個勞動力的來源要更能夠接受這些壯世代或者二度就業婦女這些所以剛剛您委員講的一些話坦白講我心裡有戚戚焉政府應該要扮演更強大的這樣的一個力道我們這個法律法律部長你記得什麼時候通過的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14842.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14845.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
201919吧2019108年嘛對不對但是我們上路往2020那我108啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14850.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14871.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
因為是108公告的109才上路因為疫情109、110、11、12、13、15年可以大大來討論當然要檢討了嘛快速來盤整嘛好不好那我們這個高齡者的勞動率可以提高嘛那這個板塊移動到底是因為你們的政策推動的很好很有力道還是還是這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14873.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14873.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
接下來請王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14901.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14903.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
謝謝主席我請徐部長徐部長好部長好委員好最近大家又開始關心勞保基金會不會破產會不會在2018年破產那麼2028 對不起2028年破產所以你也認為2028那是110年計算報告跟委員報告我們今年要再重新做計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14929.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14943.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我現在的問題是請教你在去年因為稅收超生4500億的關係那麼當時除了普發現金之外有部分拿來撥補包含台電還有我們勞保基金對不對當時去年撥補550億300 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14948.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14968.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
去年 各位幫我們的特別預算是撥補勞保300億分3年去年先給100億然後另外450是公務預算公務預算的撥補所以去年一共撥補了550億是含公務預算的450加公務預算加特別預算100億所以剛好550 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14970.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14970.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那我想請教一下你們會爭取你們會爭取那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14989.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15000.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
今年稅收超徵大概3800億的一個水準然後像去年一樣然後再爭取再多撥補到勞保基金裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15019.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15034.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那你們希望能夠爭取到多少?我是希望不低於去年的300 不低啊我是希望不低於如果能夠有多的盈餘我們希望能夠多爭取一些對我們財務的穩定是有很大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15035.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15063.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
好那部長我跟你講你的期待可能會落空因為我剛才才在財政委員會去問過那個朱澤民主計長他說現在看起來好像是三千八百億但是呢七折八扣又包含他要發行公債等等喔那麼事實上只剩下一千五百億那你也知道經濟部長剛委員他們也是去爭取了一千五百億但是朱澤民主計長的意思說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15064.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15084.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
一千五百億全部都補給台電的話那麼明年的預算會非常困難明年的預算就會非常困難編起來因為已經沒有剩餘所以也就是說現在呢大家都看到這個稅收這個稅收超車的這筆錢可是呢這個餅就是這麼大尤其台電的部分現在他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15085.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15111.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
比較講不好聽獅子大開口啦他們要爭取1500億所以你這300億我覺得有困難好那如果在這樣的狀況之下那麼因為現在有很多立委都要求就是說要提出勞保年金的改革方案來改善或者是延緩我們勞保基金可能破產的這個年限那你有什麼辦法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15112.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15136.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
報告委員因為大概幾個面向大概大家可能需要跟這個勞資團體還有這個各界在做一些溝通還有收集他們意見因為撥補這個面向應該我們現在都持續在做了撥補大概是最容易有人給你錢就立了對持續但是這也是很重要的面向因為所有的改革方案裡面撥補是一定要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15136.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15159.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
而且部部的金額會連動到其他的面向他的調整的幅度所以其他的部分包括說費率的調整包括平均性質的採集年間包括年金給付率是不是要做調整這個都還要再爭取大家因為主要是像費率的調整會牽涉到資方的負擔那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15163.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15164.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
520之前你們會有具體的方案出來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15183.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15193.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
包括我這個部分我還沒辦法回答您所以我看起來要留待新政府來做了對不對現在你們短期呢只有可能去能夠爭取這個撥補的金額好剩下一點時間我要特別講就是我必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15200.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15219.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
我們要改善嫂子化但是呢我們現在對其實生小孩的很多的年輕父母事實上是非常辛苦因為我們知道外籍幫傭他要去拿到你們所規定的點數16點非常困難是可以看一下那個請我們部長看一下是 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15219.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15241.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
如果我們要申請到外籍的幫傭那按照你們的點數我把它算一下有個狀況兩個兩歲以下的子女要配上78歲以上的長者你才有16點那如果你有三個子女在五歲以下比如說兩歲三歲五歲還不夠你還要再加上79歲以上的長者才有16點以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15245.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15265.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
這個太困難了啦所以我覺得我們既然說要改善草子化減輕我們生小孩的負擔另外一方面我們在外籍幫庸卻這麼嚴苛我剛講這個這個狀況是根本很少的家庭可以達到這樣的狀況所以我趕快我具體的在這邊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15266.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15276.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
要求和建議是我希望你們能夠去修正這個標準第一家裡有一名6歲以下輕度或中度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15277.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15304.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
韓病兒就可以申請外籍幫傭我真的有很多朋友家裡一個韓病兒非常非常辛苦然後另外家裡面有兩名4歲以下的幼兒已經很辛苦了現在願意生就很好還給你生兩個然後還這樣的密集的生是不是我們也應該給他們一些在我們政策上的資助政策資助另外我希望你們這16 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15305.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15305.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15332.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15335.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
謝謝王宏威委員接下來請張雅玲委員張維豪有請部長謝謝請許部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15358.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15375.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
我的螢幕這邊沒跳三位你好你好欸抱歉我的投影片這邊還沒有出來投影片投影片正在用是嗎喔好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15379.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15398.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
部長您好那在準備投影片的時間喔最主要今天是想跟您討論就是前面其實也有其他委員有提到就是有關於輕職假的部分喔還有所謂的生產照顧假那我想喔其實大家現在這幾年都非常關注所謂的少子化的問題喔我們一直在講少子化是一個國安危機那我現在時間開始介紹好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15399.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15415.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那就是說其實因為我過去在民間就是一直非常關心我們的兒童的福利那其實我也發現就是聯合國兒童基金會其實有講一件事情就是我們如何去增進勞工福祉來推動這個所謂的家庭友善政策那在去年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15416.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15431.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
日本也成立了兒童家庭廳他們也發布了相關的政策其中一個很重要的闡述就是少子化要解決的一件事情不是只有叫女生媽媽家長一直生小孩我們必須要提供更完善的家庭支持政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15432.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15456.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那我想要跟部長說一下我們看到這張表其實大部分這個我們勞基法是規定每週工時40小時雖然我們持續的在改建但是加班還是家長的共同日常這個每週工時不管是男生女生都是超過40小時的那瑞福部其實去在11年的時候有一個統計是在講工作家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15459.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15486.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
兩頭燒這描述我們的家長其實他雖然工時很他平常工時已經很長了他他要帶小孩的時候他根本沒有時間有將近四成的家長是沒有時間陪小孩了那我們去年在特工盟的民間的團體他也做了一個資料就是說小孩也抱怨就是這個工時很長老小孩也抱怨說爸爸媽媽平常已經把我留在課後班補習班我沒有時間照顧也就算了連週末他都很累 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15487.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15504.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
好懶得帶我出去玩所以變成他可以出去玩這件事情一定是偶一為之的奢侈那其實玩直接的影響到我們兒少的一個身心健康好造成一些社會的身心的問題那我們雖然有留職停薪的這個育嬰育嬰假 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15505.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15526.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
但是我們也知道我們請的人數一直沒有很多吼我們可以來看看這個成長率喔暈流停很少人用最主要是在過去這兩個高峰只有出現在我們修訂的剛修訂這個暈假的時候還有疫情期間那為什麼呢為什麼我們的暈流停很少人用呢我想要請教我們的部長其實我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15531.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15550.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
報告委員當然之前可能有一些不夠彈性那我們其實在前年修法應該是前年修法我們也放寬然後也可以比較短時間的申請然後父母親可以同時申請所以我們其實也一直在滾動檢討覺得說如果有不好用的不夠友善的盡量來把它改 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15551.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15577.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
好謝謝部長所以我們現在最新因為我們現在的法規我們來看還是要一個月那我想從我自己的生命經驗來出發就是我以前在職場上班的時候我一年的休假其實有12天而是因為我想要提早去接我小孩因為我老闆是希望我可以配合但是我沒有辦法因為保姆不願意配合所以我只能提早我必須把我所有一整年的特休用掉我才能夠去提早接我小孩那再來就是說我想還有一個很現實的問題就是說現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15578.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15579.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
其實包委像這個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15605.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15624.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
當然就是說現在我們也請同仁在做一些研議啦其實這件事情一直朝鮮委員都有提出啦就是那個讓這個能夠零碎化來照顧不是只有集中在一段時間那我是覺得這個可以雙軌去處理啦就是說這種零碎化的運用恐怕有些 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15625.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15626.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
期也可能不適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15656.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15678.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
這個我們都會通盤來來演繹規劃啦因為就是說這種事辦我是覺得可能一個制度先事辦有些行業是可以的有些是沒有辦法因為像輪班排班同意瞭解可以的部分我們包括年紀或什麼我們可以先理一下然後先推推看啦如果有可以的或許將來未來修法或怎樣都可以來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15678.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15702.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
好那不好意思我想請部長因為現在看起來已經有一些方向有一些方向出來了那是不是可以請部長把相關的一些資料在大概什麼時候可以提到我們辦公室呢一些規劃的方向好他說提資料好我們一個月內也去跟委員做說明好謝謝部長謝謝好謝謝張雅玲委員接下來請黃仁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15722.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15724.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
有請部長請許部長黃偉昊 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15731.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15755.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
國會推估的15歲到65歲的工作人員年齡人口持續下滑將從112年到119年的總共有7年減少了113萬人口基層的勞動勞力嚴重不足製造業營造業服務業等行業的缺工問題非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15755.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15781.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那就我針對原住民的問題來討論因為現在很多這個大量的移工進來的時候衝擊到原住民的就業的問題你們有沒有相關的配套針對國人原住民的就業勞工的方案你能說幾句吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15783.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15801.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
報告委員這些缺工的產業我們還是以優先媒合國人就業為主就是說你必須媒合不到我們才會就是說或者你雇主這個招募不到才會引進這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15803.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15816.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
所以今天勞動部改善疫情後的產業復甦所形成切工的現象應該從獎勵勞工的就業及鼓勵雇主禁用的兩大面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15819.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15839.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
就是應該朝向這個嘛因為疫情之後的這個缺工擴大就業方案從112年到6月15日至專案缺工就業獎勵事辦實施要點又回溯到同年5月1日生效事辦期間至113年6月30號為止那這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15846.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15863.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
就是也要促進媒合能夠讓我們的就業的原住民更能夠保障那另外是我特別要講的是針對安定基金安定基金的立場是 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15865.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15885.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
從2023年第一季原住民的就業狀況的調查中原住民勞動力人數291424人投入行業比例最高皆為營造工程最多占17.8%且原住民失業率3.62%高於全體失業率3.56% |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15893.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15916.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那這個部分那為什麼在安定基金裡面是正式園民會爭取安定基金的這個方案那為什麼會有安定基金的委員會有餘力針對這個部分哪些他們提出的方案餘力是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15918.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15946.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
報告委員因為我們的那個救安委員會他是一個合意制啦齁那每個提案都是委員要去他們會表達意見齁那去做一個決議那因為這個當初他們認為說勞保費的部分我記得委員是認為說可能其他弱勢族群也是會來比照援引齁那還有他認為說應該是不是有其他的包括原民會這邊是不是有其他一些作為齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15947.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15952.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好在請委員請委員會這邊再評估啦他今天我特別要講的是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15953.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15979.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
所謂的保障優先保障原住民的就業方案這個方案本來就應該有的按照比例對嘛那所以已經跟你們勞動部就業安定基金這個金管會爭取到3.5億的經費這就是鼓勵補助事業單位的促進原住民的就業計畫的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15980.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16002.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
那為什麼這個安定基金的委員會會有其他的意見每個委員都是他都是代表他本來就可以表達不同的看法對嘛那既然應該要保障原住民的就業方案的話是應該不會有其他太多的意見吧這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16006.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16034.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
保障原住民的就業跟這個勞保費的負擔的是是兩個問題啦因為兩個問題當然沒有錯那不是就他們的就業方案的一個協助我們勞動部一直很積極在所以我所以我這邊建議說那個勞保費的負擔當然有些人認為說那是不是要針對特定族群這個可能大家要考慮一下公平性和平性那也請原民會再加強論述說明啦這個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16035.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16040.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
因為這一次是大量的你們有採取大量的移工要增加的問題也就是會衝擊到原住民的就業我們沒有開放大量移工我們只是多一個來源果讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16061.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16073.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16076.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16098.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
謝謝黃仁委員接下來請葉元芝委員葉元芝委員葉元芝委員不在接下來請鄭天才委員鄭天才委員鄭天才委員不在接下來請洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員洪孟楷委員不在接下來請吳春成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16111.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16113.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
主席有請徐部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16118.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16129.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
部長好,我今天特別來寫壯世代要感謝你,有你真好因為長壽社會來臨,我在民間推動了壯世代推動了三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16142.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16161.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我們政府是普遍沒有人口學的概念就沒有這種長遠人口的計畫那感謝部長這一年來看到部長注意到這個問題把這個壯士代帶進了政府體系剛才看到劉建國委員也是出口都是壯士代顯然是部長帶動的這個風氣有看到他的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16168.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16196.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
所以呢這個這個長壽時代來臨我們經常把這個當作是這個這個衛福的一種思維就是一種照顧思維其實真正的未來這個高齡人口會佔臺灣人口的一半超越人半沒有一個社會能夠照顧一半用社福的思維來照顧一半人口的所以勞動其實勞動部是是一個很重要的解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16197.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16216.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
是在這種長壽社會當中一個很重要的解放那看部長也是我們所有政府當中第一個有這種覺悟的人看到了這個問題看到了這個問題因為如果不改變的話那就會變成一場引髮大海嘯 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16217.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16232.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
因法代效不僅是高齡者會臥倒連年輕人也沒希望了但是事實上如果勞動力處理的好他可以把它轉變成國家發展的動力那所以呢看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16233.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16248.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
部長,我們勞動部有很多的政策的推出,55plus對於就業促進還有對於就業網合作的一些獎勵的一些措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16250.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16274.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
都有看到這一些這方向都很好那也看到了部長不過現在比較讓我擔心了一點部長也講了這個沒有考慮要續任那說部長說這媒體上引用你的話說未來如果考慮跨業會善用勞動部的中高齡促進就業資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16276.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16294.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那比起中高齡更喜歡壯世代這個稱呼那請問一下部長為什麼喜歡這個稱呼因為我覺得其實我們現在的45歲以上的人其實都很健康那在人際還有經驗方面都是達到一個頂峰 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16295.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16316.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
好那其實還可以很發揮啦可是常常尤其到5555歲以後常常會好像就自己覺得好像年紀衰退了會被歧視的我就說我們應該先自我期許喔對健康的身心靈來面對說我其實還是很壯的然後能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16319.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16330.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
續留職場或重返職場對這個部長這個作為我們壯世代的代言人可以嗎可以啊可以作為我們壯世代代言人喔好這個因為現在60歲以上已經600萬人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16334.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16349.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我們平均退休60.3歲也就是說這樣子龐大的退休人潮大家都不知何去何從所以壯士代鼓勵部長也以聲另外一個很重要的問題就是這個撫養比的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16352.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16352.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
這是唯一的解方了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16377.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16389.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
但是現在很關鍵的勞動部一個叫中高齡及高齡者就業促進法這個法當中有指所謂的中高齡的定義是指45歲到65歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16392.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16413.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
然後我不曉得這個依據是從哪裡來45歲就是中高齡嗎?真恐怖欸因為很多人如果出國念書回來都快40歲了然後工作沒幾年就變中高齡了這太恐怖了吧所以我不曉得我們這個法的依據是從哪裡來然後高齡者65歲幾歲年齡然後我們就稱他叫高齡者像勞動部這個法的這個名稱就已經誤導了方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16421.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16449.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個其實過去的這個想法所以部長你是第一個當初也是因為國際的標準大概就這樣子但是我覺得其實現在應該有不同的對就是因為部長第一個就是就整個不管世界怎麼樣臺灣都是世界第一的領先的我們應該已經覺得這個已經不適當的不符合事實的所以部長可不可以再因為這個法要改名叫壯士代就業促進法我樂觀其成 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16450.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16465.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
樂觀七省部長我們可以努力嗎就是這個法因為你這個法包括我剛才從經濟委員會來經濟委員會中小企業獎勵條例就在獎勵這個他依據的就是你們勞動部的這個法你知道嗎所以他也是獎勵45歲如果說45歲我們勞參率沒有太大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16471.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16499.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
真正大的問題是大概55歲以上55歲以後那個勞產率急速的下降這個問題才會不然你那個獎勵45歲所有企業都去聘45歲不會去聘那個65歲的啦所以那個但是他的依據就可能來自於勞動部的這一個所以這個示範如果你把它改成壯士代就會促進法對整個的政府各部會應該有很大的那個啟發的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16500.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16501.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
謝謝部長 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16505.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16532.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
謝謝謝謝吳春成委員接下來請謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員謝依鳳委員不在接下來請徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在接下來請鄭正前委員鄭正前委員鄭正前委員不在接下來請蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在接下來請林德福委員林德福委員林德福委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16533.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16559.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
接下來請吳秉瑞委員吳秉瑞委員吳秉瑞委員不在接下來請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在接下來請羅明財委員羅明財委員羅明財委員不在接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在接下來請陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員陳冠廷委員不在接下來請陳瑩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16568.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16594.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
謝謝主席我們今天請周署長請周署長署長好根據本席的調查您是這個治安署歷年來歷任以來最長壽的署長想必在這麼多年的你任內的這個7年當中呢有不少的豐功偉業那我想說這個這些攻擊呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16595.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16620.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
都可以反映在數字上那因為數字會說話所以呢現在就讓我們繼續看下去來那個首先呢是這個檢查人力短缺的問題我要請教中央級地方現在有就是現在沒有填補的正職檢察員還有多少職缺那其中這個職業安全衛生的這個缺是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16621.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16648.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
報告委員那個缺是一直在浮動不過我們的正式的編制檢察院大概那個債值率大概是8成5到9成上下在一份浮動8成5到9成是對我們的值缺是一成左右好所以你就講成數那你沒有具體的這個統計數字對報告委員是浮動的那你今天下班前你把截至目前為止的數字給我們辦公室好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16649.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16674.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我手邊的資料是在2月底是我們現在缺了是86人只有86人只有缺86人對是好那這些這些缺額是中央的比較多還是地方政府的這個缺額比較多各位報告委員都有像台北市我目前手邊資料是缺了9個新北市缺更多23個哪裡多啊新北市23桃園12台中16 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16678.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16703.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
那我們的北區也缺8我就問你中央的缺額比較多還是地方政府缺額比較多好那據我所知這些缺額已經就是沒有補齊的這個時間其實已經過了很久了那跟這個去年的這個跟去年的今天比較那我們檢察員的這個人數是增加還是減少緣和沒有變人數減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16705.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16733.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
原額沒變人數減少好那其實我聽到的聲音就是說新進的這個檢察員然後很多他就是受訓他是他是不來報到的或者是說他實習完的時候他就離職就轉掉了那這個是其實是令人非常擔心的問題因為衍生的這個接下來就是說我們衍生了這個我接下來要提問的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16734.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16760.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
我們看一下這個檢查檢查次量合理分配的問題有些地方政府呢的這個檢查單位反映只會分配讓他們難以負荷的這個檢查次量並沒有考慮到他們所承擔的這些工作壓力那這個問題其實是呈現到底合理的檢查次數的是多少的問題那署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16763.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16777.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
以你的經驗一位檢察員每天合理的檢查場次是多少?我說的場次是工廠的場合理的場次是多少?那是兩場次早上一場下午一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16778.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16806.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
一天場次但是這個場其實其實也有分大小嗎如果大到像那個台塑我想他一天你要叫他兩個台塑這麼大的場也是檢查不完的所以因為場次有分大小嗎那當然就是說按照我其實也有參考了這個年報你們這個年報的部分等一下在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16811.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16825.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
好我有看了等一下那個因為在桌上吼我有看了你們這個年報吼你們大概就是年報大概一年一百一十一年吧統計的這個數量大概有這個總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16828.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16830.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
111年的檢查機構的這個對事業單位實施這個你們的這個指案會的檢查有171177個場次看起來量還蠻多的17萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16842.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16847.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好那但是17萬的這個場次我剛剛問的是工廠的場但是17萬這個場是一場兩場的場但是這一場這個場次你們所謂的場次呢其中還包含了這個起重機升降狙擊的座次33000多的座次還有這個鍋爐的6000大概鍋爐的6000座次 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16871.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16900.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
還有這個壓力鍋壓力容器檢查兩萬九千座次還有其他高壓高壓氣體設備的座次也是三萬多這些都是座次那我剛剛把你們這個年報的統計一下這個座次的部分總共有十萬七千一百八十九件所以檢完之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16902.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16927.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
大概還有7萬的場次你知道我在講什麼啦所以我剛剛把這些換算出來我是要告訴你們就是說在你這個因為我不曉得你今年按照你這樣子換算那我先請教你今年訂定的這個全年的目標是多少場次工廠的場 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16928.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16941.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
那按照你現在就是說你們按照你們這樣算是那個還有場次的場那你覺得多少場工廠的場次跟多少你們算算的場次是是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16943.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16961.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
謝謝委員提問,剛剛委員提醒那個委員機械設備是我們待遇檢查的量你們今年設定的這個全年的目標是要怎麼算我們認為我們同仁已經負荷非常重,我們會以去年維持去年的水平不要減少為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16963.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16977.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
但是你人數減少了所以我們今天就是跟委員報告我們因為我們那個行政院高雄部長支持我們現在有讓同仁有那個風險工作費的一些支持希望同仁能夠留任或留才因為給錢就了事了嗎加個3000塊5000塊就好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16980.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17008.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
因為以現有的這個檢察員努力的工作那換算你要算下來他可以合理完成的這個職安署所設定的年度目標嗎可不可以你說加了那個錢也是就加了錢就可以完成這個我講的是合理的目標合理的目標包含有效有品質的檢查所以委員提醒有關合理的工作量我們會再跟各檢察機構做進步的對所以你現在是不知道嗎如果按照你這樣的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17015.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17027.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
我這樣說好了啦我們從檢查年報來看我們檢查次量逐年增加嘛那重大值在傷亡的人數並沒有跟著減少啊而且喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17027.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17046.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17047.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17064.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
會有一個什麼狀況你知道嗎因為大家為了要衝那個量去衝那個數字就是會變成為周署長去創造這個為你所定的這個目標去創造一個美麗的數字然後會讓周署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17064.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17079.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
可以如果在重災重大直在發生的時候那你可以跟立委報告跟全國的民眾報告說我們勞檢了多少的場次是擬定了那個場包含作次的一個量衝很高的一個場次的數據所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17083.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17110.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
從這個檢查就是說明年的這個檢查的這個次量我們是不是應該要根據各地檢查人員的這個人數來做一個合理的分配而不是你周子蓮坐在辦公室裡訂一個盲目的這個數據讓大家無止盡的在這邊追求一直在追求一直在增加去達到你訂的KPI嘛因為你訂了KPI就有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17111.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17138.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
主長怎麼看?謝謝委員提醒我們講質量並重是我們的期待齁那各個機構人力因為就是現在的原流動也是一個很大的困難所以我也提醒跟建議我們會好好來檢討因為我對於你們的統計我是有很大的質疑啦因為呢剛剛講嘛工廠有分大小而且按照署長剛剛的回應你們現在已經不用那個早期的工廠的廠次廠次來做計算了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17139.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17155.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
現在呢比較誇張的是你們用相次打一打一個勾好這個檢核表裡面打一個勾就算就算一場哎我看你們自己統計也是這樣子一座一個座就就一座就是一場啊你們是這樣子統計的呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17158.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17179.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
你你不知道有這個狀況嗎我就說你不知道說打打那個檢核表打個勾就算一場你知道有這個狀況嗎我們這叫做交叉檢查現在交叉檢查檢查到工地或到社道看做一般檢查如果發現特別危險的東西我們鼓勵大家做那個特別危險的項目做檢查所以我們有這樣子的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17179.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17197.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
對阿所以你們有這樣的要求那計算上就要就是給他算一個場次好大家聽到了原來我們的檢查場次是這樣計算出來好這樣我知道了你們就是也是堅持就是要這樣子算那沒關係那你們下次應該訂個20萬之類的KPI |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17201.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17224.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
可以啊因為因為你一個一個項目你就打個勾嘛包委員不是一個項目我們是鼓勵同仁做更實際的深入的檢查對啊那在你鼓勵的結果結果是怎麼樣在你的這些鼓勵的方式我們產生的結果是什麼重大值按死亡人數標新高啊包委員我們去年比前年略減一點當然我們真的是不滿意我們還在檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17225.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17247.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
最好是要好好檢討因為我們最後就是我現在看一下就是說請教那個檢查品質的問題啦好因為這個很重要我要提完我會加速來那個署長新進檢查員還沒有完成一個月學科訓練跟60次數科的實習他所做的檢查具有法律效益嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17249.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17255.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
有嗎有沒有你先回答我有沒有他如果沒有完成就像一個醫生他沒有完成實習 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17257.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17280.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
然後他可以算是一個合格的醫生嗎?不是你先回答我有沒有法律的效力阿有沒有對所以是沒有的嘛那如果這個不合格的檢察員如果造成人民的權益損失有沒有國家賠償的問題有沒有我想要個案來做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17282.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17303.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
所以討論完可能沒有也可能有是這樣嗎因為他已經不合格了然後他還可以到下個階段一個不合格的檢察員然後去做出了對這個廠家做出了決定做出了處分那這個是有效率的嗎他自己已經是不合格了這還有什麼後續討論的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17305.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17330.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
你的邏輯也是很奇怪捏那所以國家賠償那是人家你們造成的損失啊那如果在這個高度檢查量的要求之下現在有多少檢察員還沒有完成授訊就在檢查了你有沒有掌握報告委員我們都會要求檢察機構的首長跟組長要確定他是有對啦你有要求但你有沒有掌握這些人沒有拿到資格然後就去檢查你有沒有掌握目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17331.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17357.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
好那我在這裡呼籲所有的廠家如果你們有遇到不合格的檢察員勞檢員去檢查的時候或者造成你們的損失麻煩跟本席辦公室聯絡來跟我檢舉好不好好那我想這個事業單位如果檢查合格沒有多久就發生職災那檢察員到底有沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17359.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17375.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那是不是檢查合格之後就不會發生職災了這些勞動檢查跟預防職災之間關聯性到底是什麼如果他們不是一個這個正向就是說不是一個絕對正向的關係那你們每年增加這個勞檢的次量的意義在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17377.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17403.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我丟出這些問題給你啦所以我覺得這個就是說我們勞檢的現況角色跟防災的功能我是希望說治安署你們能夠檢查這個解決這個檢查員缺耳日益嚴重的問題那因為這個已經不是一天兩天了也不能說歸咎於說有沒有這個危險佳績然後甩鍋給部長去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17404.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17424.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那因為缺額那衍生檢查次量合理分配的問題它結果是一個惡性的循環那關鍵可能在說職安署長期迷戀於這個檢查的次量認為越多越好所以如果沒有好的品質事實證明根本就是你對職災預防是沒有效的 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17424.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17444.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
所以我今天特別提出這樣的問題讓署長你們回去好好的檢討好好的質量減少職災的發生減少職災死亡的這個人數才是我們真正關心的事情而不是你去檢查了多少場次然後還要加權計算以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17446.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17475.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
好謝謝呃陳英委員齁本日會議詢答全部結束委員廖偉翔林德福葉元之所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報現在做以下決定報告及詢答完畢委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所定本日會議到此結束現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17476.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17476.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
星期四上午9點繼續開會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17506.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17506.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
委員會主席 |