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| 委員名稱 |
林月琴 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:19:58 - 11:33:36 |
| 影片長度 |
818 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、銓敘部、國防部、內政部警政署、內政部消防署、行政院人事行政總處、考試院、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、教育部及國家科學及技術委員會就「職場霸凌防治與處理作業」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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邱政軍委員執行完畢之後我們處理臨時提案有請何部長跟雷司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
32.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這名公務人員本來他在生前就遭受到職場霸凌,他定調是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
53.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
11月4日發生自殺、死亡事件,勞動部什麼時候開始做調查?等到新聞才有動作? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
84.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個事件發生後,勞動部有沒有主動跟自殺防治通報系統做通報?或是有報警或警察做通報?當時有報警有沒有跟我們的自殺防治的這個通報系統做通報? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
110.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
事件發生後是勞動部自己還是有請衛生福利部來協助對我們的家屬做一些關懷?有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我請他們回答在事發的時候我們北分署的人事室主任跟秘書室主任全程先送到臺北醫院然後也陪同家屬然後來做後面的招魂給已臨到殯葬會館的部分然後也全程陪同家屬來做相關的一個協助然後還有國關家屬的請求的部分我們也都配合辦理上說明好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
174.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
部長想問一下按照我們的自殺防治法第6條第一項規定的防治工作裡邊我不知道勞動部有沒有弱勢就是你們辦理的自殺防治教育裡邊參加同仁占比例有多少還有你們有提供心理諮商的管道嗎每年的使用人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們今年的那個說實在的我們那個心理智商我們是我們部來統整然後給各個分署來做處理如果你沒辦法回答的話就是會後是不是我們就把相關的數據提供因為這蠻重要的那下一 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
210.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
227.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
三本案重從民眾來提到的時候他就是有超時工作上部長剛剛前面有委員質詢你也講說打假卡的問題表示他們工作量真的很大他只好呢先符合你們勞動法相關法規先去打了卡又再 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
254.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我可不可以借一點時間我稍微澄清一下其實我們部裡絕對不允許是不允許員工這樣打假卡沒有這個是不允許的可是工作量多到這種狀況的時候你要叫他怎麼辦呢這就是問題所以這就是我們這位員工真的太令人不捨 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
276.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
對,他真的太...那你有沒有關心到主管就是交給他太多太多的工作以致於他沒有辦法負荷啊這就是我們要去檢討的地方可是我是說制度上打假卡是不對的那我們也不允許這樣的行為可是卻存在這樣的行為這是我們要檢討的地方是,我覺得如果勞動部都做不到的話你不用講說其他的企業都常有這樣狀況了因為你是一個主管機關欸是,當然當然好,那群聚部 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
328.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
各位委員報告依據公務員服務法第12條的規定加班它的定義其實是長官基於業務需要指派同仁在正常的上班時間以外延長工作時間那這樣的定義之下其實是長官指派同仁才可以做加班的動作那當然我們也了解公務同仁有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
329.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
336.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主管要去關懷同仁知道同仁的工作情況之下主管就要去調整工作好讓同仁不要超時的加班我們是希望達成這樣的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
358.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
381.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
市長不是員工要超時他勢必就變成要這樣因為工作量大到這樣的時候你要叫他有些像這個標案還有急迫性的那他死的他就是必須要去做那一樣問全序部這邊公益加班事前要上系統去申請可是主管不許可的話怎麼辦可以申請請你們下去指導嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
382.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
408.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個部分是因為它是屬於這個機關的行政管理措施如果同仁就是有不服這個或是覺得不恰當的話他可以去進行申訴走申訴的這樣一個流程好你說用走申訴那另外我要問加班費是事前編列如果請完為止的話剩下的時數強迫補修可是沒時間修啊因為工作量大這樣年底一筆勾銷那這個問題是很多年討論也多年了怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
409.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
429.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
公務員報告因為這部分是在公務員保障法有規範那我這邊就是待會回答一下如果說是這個加班時數不能用這個加班費來補償的話那就是會進到用平時的獎勵的方式喔大概超過一半時間因為我周遭真的不管是親人朋友都有很多共敵 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
430.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
430.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
李卓人議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
449.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
476.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以就很遺憾全系部還是沒有講出一些積極的作為來處理那過去我們去看111的人力銀行的調查裡面83%的上班族都曾經遭遇到霸凌尤其是職屬機關職屬的主管占了44%蠻高的慣用的手法有時候是用言語那甚至有時候女性遭遇到職場霸凌的比例有時候是高出於男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
477.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
500.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
政府部門政府部門到底有沒有去處理你們還是一個主管機關要去管這個反而是沒有特別去處理所以我就再問全序部就是說因為霸凌事實上意思是加害人對被害人從事觸犯刑法罪嫌的犯罪行為是要遭受刑法的造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
501.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
501.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
林月琴議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
545.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
全序部現行機制又是公務人員如果不符機關職場霸凌成立與否的決定的話得依保障法循序那個申訴和再申訴程序再提起我們的行政訴訟程序那這個程序上有準施法的地位據機關跟申訴人雙方權利平等的原則在保障我們的法的機制底下應允許人委託我們的律師協助你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
547.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
558.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
報告委員因為這部分涉及到保障法的規範是不是請公衛保障培訓委員會來那這個階段是不是應該引進我們的法律輔助的制度來依當事人的意願提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
560.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
報告委員有關那個職場霸凌的救濟的部分是由保訓會主管那保訓會在審理的時候公務人員本來就可以請律師作為他的代理人那之後不符我們的決定依現況也可以去提行相應的行政訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
612.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好再來想問勞動部部長這邊本席知道勞動部早在104年就便制定了勞動部員工安全跟衛生防護要點那依據勞動部的分工表人身安全項目全責在各施處這設計能夠落實申訴機制嗎是可以的可以嗎有人敢申訴嗎一年有多少件 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
613.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
632.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那為何不在本部建立統一窗口解決過度內部礙於人情壓力難以使用的問題報告委員現在這個職場霸凌都是人事單位來做處理那我們今年也有接獲一件職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
634.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
656.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
可是我們齁這是我們辦公室接到的齁這就是勞動部的回覆說啊你的申訴我收到啦齁僱主有設置辦法嗎沒有的話請告訴我啊你需要看醫生嗎齁可以提書送啊找專人服務請找什麼什麼如果你們對外部的企業就這樣的話那我不知道對內部到底會怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
656.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
659.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
職場霸凌事件列為地方政府勞資爭議條處的案件,同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
685.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
699.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
根據勞工部份,依照《治安法》第6條第2項的規定及設置規則,我們就有一個處理的機制。故主要針對勞工自己的內部申訴做調查。若沒有做調查,我們勞檢去檢查之後,通知改正、不改正會罰3到15萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
701.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
727.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
她的原因就是求助無門了嘛可是你看這個針對於要尋求你們協助的狀態裡邊似乎要尋求政府部門協助也是回復是這樣子的回復的話那怎麼可能得到協助呢我們接到申訴案件自己明確指我們地方檢察機構就會派勞檢去做檢查檢查故事我們依照這個機制做處置如果沒有我們通知改善我們再做複查複查我們就再 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
728.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
732.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以勞動部可不可以在一個月內會商地方政府將我們的職場霸凌案件列為勞資爭議處理項目? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
747.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
749.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們會後來研究,然後給您報告,可以嗎?我覺得不是走外部 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
775.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
784.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
公務人員他們面對到這些問題然後你們又是主要的在管我們的權益的部分可能要注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
785.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
809.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以最後就兩件事情希望我們的銓敘部這邊能建立針對公務機關建立再申訴的制度跟委託法律輔助基金會來做外部的申訴那至於我們的勞動部這邊是不是可以請我們的勞工局處在受理職場霸凌事件的時候作為我們的勞資爭議的條處 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
811.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
813.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一週內提供書面資料。 |
| IVOD_ID |
157151 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157151 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-26-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T11:19:58+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T11:33:36+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |