| IVOD_ID |
15715 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15715 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第4次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第4次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-12T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-12T16:43:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:13:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60919c5f9c9feb1074a9b5fa2f296a935343be8d109af184be45cc1c8734f3545d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第4次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。
二、3月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、3月12日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 16:43:00 |
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報告院會現在繼續開會,執行對行政院院長施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。今天進行個人質詢,內政組織質詢。現在請邁委員郁真質詢。 |
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謝謝院長有請陳院長還有內政部部長麻煩請陳院長內政部備詢報告委員早安祝你當選立法委員 |
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1890.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
謝謝,謝謝院長。有幸成為臺灣新住民,在臺灣的新住民的立委。今天我們是要來找出問題,解決問題還有關於新住民的議題。所以雖然是院長說自己是看守內閣,但是關於新住民的議題, |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1891.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1907.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
希望我們院長可以就是承諾改進關於新住民的權益議題講很久了但是都沒有進展這個部分首先就是行政院沒有一個統籌新住民的事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1908.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1929.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
所以呢就導致說落在各機構,就像譬如說簽證就是要到外交部,還有就是國籍啊、一親就叫移民署。所以呢就造成就是移民署的很多的負擔,所以我們就是要融入臺灣呢,我們就是文化還有語言的門檻。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1931.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1951.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以常常就是新住民就求助無門所以就像說陸配跟外配都需要幫助就是大家都分說外配要到哪個單位陸配又在哪個單位這樣所以目前就沒有設一個統籌就是新住民業務的機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1954.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1980.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個部分所以要請我們的院長來回應一下有關於移民的事務現在都是由多個部會共同來配置人力來辦理目前是運作無礙但是為了要整合跟協調相關的部會在行政院也設置了新住民事務的協調匯報來統籌相關的這些業務那我要在這裡跟麥委員再次的強調我們很歡迎新住民來到臺灣而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1981.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1987.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
關於移民的事務,我們會讓相關的部會在剛才講的協調匯報當中做更好的協調。如果有需要我們再繼續精進的地方,我們也會請各部會來加強精進的這些辦法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2003.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2029.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是,但是我們希望的就是說現在目前在我們臺灣就有將近就是60萬人新住民還有我們的新二代大概50幾萬加上就是說來這邊工作的外籍工還有就是我們專業人員有80萬人還有就是來這邊就是外僑生就是有10萬人左右所以這樣子的超過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2031.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2054.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
兩百多人,這樣子的人數對臺灣帶來的就不只是經濟的發展,交易還有文化。 所以這個部分我們是不是說行政院院長這邊有沒有想說要設立一個部門專門去服務就是從國外人的這一群人,默默為我們臺灣的付出。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2055.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2080.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們就是因為很尊重而且很重視新住民在經濟、政治、文化跟教育上的貢獻所以我剛才才講到在行政院就有一個協調會報協調會報是一個很慎重的事情是各部會做在一起那和這個世界上各國並沒有所謂的新住民的相關的政府機關也是把相關的業務讓內政或者是讓移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2081.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2103.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
以及經濟部來一起合作,大部分的國家都這樣,但是也沒有像我們行政院有特別有這樣的一個協調的匯報。協調匯報是一個定期開會的一個組織也是相當重要的。那我們目前因為剛才我跟委員有報告過,因為所有的業務相關新移民相關的業務現在是運行的還蠻順暢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2107.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2108.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對,我們希望就是要有一個因為現在目前我們有陸委會但是我們沒有一個部門一個部會成為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2125.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2151.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們新住民的部會所以希望說我們的行政院長這邊可不可以說我們要成立一個就是新住民委員會再來就是我們在統籌一起來去服務我們內政部有的新住民發展基金培訓了10年我們一個就是說建立一個人才資料庫這人才資料庫已經發霉了因為沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2152.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2171.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
沒有一個平台也沒有一個部門讓我們去發揮所以我希望的說我們院長這邊是不是說在近期內可以答應我們的新住民的需求要有一個新住民委員會來成立讓大家栽培人才留住人才讓人才發揮為了臺灣來去服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2175.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2201.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我想這一個部分我是請內政部長先說明一下我再來補充一下那個委員會長。謝謝委員的建議你剛剛有特別提到好幾個部分包括新住民包括移工還有包括學生其實這幾個區塊他們所面臨的問題還有這個需求都有一點不太一樣剛剛院長有特別提到我們在這個行政院的一個協調會報裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2203.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2226.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們大概把過去所這個新住民或者說包括移工等等這些朋友他們碰到的問題我們大概一個一個把它這個列出來比如說像過去大家提到最多來到臺灣之後要辦居住或者要辦戶口或者是要辦這個金融帳戶金融卡或者是銀行的帳戶等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2227.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2255.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
都碰到了很多的困難也沒那麼方便那不過現在透過行政院的這個會報我們把這些問題移出來一個一個把它串接在一起所以是一個部會協作的一個方式那當然這個我們新住民的這個基金我上任之後我也是跟同仁不斷的在溝通就是說新住民的這個基金我們要運用在哪些地方把錢用在刀口上我們現在正在做這樣的努力那委員剛剛提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2256.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2259.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以你們都有說嘛就是不同的需求就是不同的解決但是問題就是資源就是沒有整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2283.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2299.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2299.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2314.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
新住民委員會二級機構就是要專門來去服務有需要哪一個地方我們就是轉接到才像說一個真正的服務變成國外來到臺灣不管是議員或者部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2315.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2337.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2337.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2339.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員你的建議我有了解但是我要跟委員來做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2365.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2384.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
實際上我們現在的二級機關的數目都已經滿了但是新住民的事情很重要不管是教育、勞動、衛福、文化等等還有經濟還有財政的部分都有那這確實它是各個部會都包含在裡面所以我們才會有所謂的新住民事務協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2386.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2386.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2416.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2433.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2433.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2450.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
新住民生了小孩越來越多就叫停止不要再生了已經滿了是這樣嗎?因為人多了我們就是人的需求我們現在就是我們要的就是說我們有需求我們要來去服務因為我們要去整合資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2450.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2476.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
還有給予機會大家才能會去真正的是落實的服務對不對我們要有一個平台要互助共好嘛對不能說一直說顛簾一種全部的預算來栽培栽培人才但是沒有給予機會怎麼留才呢怎麼真正的去為台灣付出呢所以我們希望說我們的院長要來成立一個新住民委員會這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2478.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2500.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
整合資源讓更多的人去發揮也更多的是說你栽培人才花那麼多錢但是沒有一個平台讓大家去發揮所以我們希望的是說有一個平台有一個部會來去讓新住民去服務也讓各個機構還有外國人來到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2500.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2529.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
可以有一個地方真的是照顧到讓全世界人看到說我們只要來臺灣投資我們移居臺灣我們就是找這個部會就可以了不用說再求助我們再找很多的部會剛才你們有講嘛各部會討論只是討論而已結果是怎麼樣誰來決定誰來服務所以我們希望就是說行政院這邊院長答應我們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2530.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2546.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
要成立一個新住民委員會讓我們的有一個新住民基本法就是我們原住民基本法也是最近幾年才去成立的如果有一個部門這樣去服務的話我們是政府的左右手也真的是解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2550.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2569.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
委員我想回答你兩個問題第一個就是說二級機關已經滿了就是說按照行政院的組織法裡面我們的部會的數目到現在都已經是滿了除非我們要修行政院相關的這個組織法才能夠做這個是滿額的意思是這樣那第二個呢在政務的推動上匯報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2572.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2593.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
的聯繫匯報的聯繫的工作呢實際上比單一部會要來還舉一個例子比如說原民會想要做什麼事情他這個事情如果他單獨的部會要做的時候他需要去協調經濟部還有內政部教育部等等不同的部會那這個時候他一個人來進行一個部會來進行反而不容易做而需要有一個好的匯報來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2596.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2616.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
來一起來進行那這個就是我們剛才講的如果我們各部會都在一個新住民的這一個事務協調會報裡面來做的話那你剛才說我們做了一個決定以後呢做完決定以後教育部該好好培育人才然後勞動部該好好的在這個聘用這些人才然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2618.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2620.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
是沒錯,跨部會是要去協調但是有要單一部會來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2636.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2658.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
執行,這個是對嗎?對不對,就像我們原住民委員會,他也是跟大家協調,但是他是當一個部會來去執行,是對的嘛,是不是?你的意思是說是應該是這樣,所以我們現在要的是應該是這樣啊,所以就是說我們要協調各部會,資源整合,在最後就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2658.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2681.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2682.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2710.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
來去協助這樣才不會說資源重疊還有個案一個個案很多部門去服務所以我們看到的是這樣所以謝謝我們的院長這個部分就是希望你答應我們我們也共同來去努力就是這裡是臺灣的民眾跟政府的最好溝通的橋樑所以我們是代表我們的民眾來跟我們部院去要求去 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2710.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2711.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
請說去協助。還有第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2715.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2743.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
因為時間有限就有問題說關於就是警察的權利因為警察是不是人民保姆是對所以人民保姆去保護我們全國的人民是不是要讓他們就是有地方就是住還有睡好這樣他還有精力去幫助大家去保護我們的人民但是目前為止全國有很多就是我們的警察的住宿的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2744.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2747.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
都沒有就是讓大家就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2749.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2749.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2789.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2807.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
蔓委員建議好不好,因為時間的關係能不能請內政部把相關的資料用書面送給您參考好嗎?因為時間已經到了好不好?好,謝謝蔓委員與真的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢,謝謝接下來我們請登記第二號范雲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2824.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2846.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
院長早安,有請陳院長。再請陳院長備刑。院長早安,那今天的主題是如何建構一個真正平等沒有歧視的社會。下頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2850.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2877.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
首先我要謝謝院長大仁哥您真的是溫暖內閣我看到您已經有一個很重要的貢獻就是上次記得我總質詢的時候讓無家者在我們的議場現身您看到之後我們也討論了相關的問題您當時就立刻承諾我們的社會救助法真的是需要好好的修衛福部也承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2878.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2901.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
在今年5月會提出,那雖然您一直不願意繼續就是繼續擔任我們的院長,但我相信希望也能在您卸任前能夠提出,那我想這是一個非常重要的溫暖的法案,因為它會接住我們的貧窮人口,因為過去設下了太多重重障礙,所以我謝謝大仁哥,那我們一起打造這個溫暖的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2903.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2903.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們都不捨 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2933.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2950.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我去年認識他所以非常的敬佩他因為很多人說我想他也是台灣的禍金他擁有美國的雙重的法律會計他其實有機會我聽到他母親說跟他的同學一樣在世界銀行工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2950.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2972.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
但是他選擇回臺灣就是希望為臺灣的人權努力雖然我們在喊病的醫療資源無障礙環境其實都不如國外那下一頁那他離開之後我們有看到蔡總統特別給他包中令蔡總統說他離世是台灣社會的巨大損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2972.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2990.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2990.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3010.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
行政院 其實在下一頁 包括我們立法委員 這是我組成的我們超過10位 有12位為下一代而戰的國會連線 那我們在開記者會前一天突然知道他離世 那我們也非常的難過 那也說就是說我們會記住他是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3010.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3011.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
下一頁下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3030.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3043.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這邊我想放一個俊翰律師自己講的59秒的影像讓他繼續在我們這現身有這樣的機會就是要好好把握他們的掌握的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3044.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3072.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這樣的採訪對陳俊漢來說的一場失利更何況是遠赴美國求學了但在異國他獲得前所未有的尊重與友善對待讓原本在臺灣學公司法、商業證券法一小時能賺進幾萬塊收入的他決定走向不同的路我一路以來本來就有一直在爭取這一些就自己本來就在臺灣的教育環境之下其實每一關都是靠自己去努力一個一個突破所以是 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3073.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3089.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
一接觸到國外的那種制度真的就是會覺得衝擊很大,感觸很深。會覺得好像國外真的是把那個障礙者當成人看待,然後我們在這邊好像是那個第三世界的國家。 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3091.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3105.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我想院長看了這段話應該會跟我一樣覺得很羞愧他說他在國外讀書的經驗發現國外真的是把障礙者當人看然後回想我們在臺灣好像是第三世界國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3106.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3126.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我想今天就是他放棄了國外的工作機會回到對他個人很不利的環境所以我們到底如何才能夠讓臺灣脫離障礙者的第三世界國家不把障礙者當人看下一頁我想我們就回來看臺灣有多少障礙者不知道院長知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3133.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3145.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
一句政府的統計有120萬那這個不包括就是像我母親他是因為老化出門要用輪椅所以輪椅的這種老化失能者沒有包括在裡面就120萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3146.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3167.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
一百二十萬如果他有一個家庭一個障礙者有三個家人或者三點五個好了其實全國就有五百萬個超過五百萬個身障者及其家屬還不包括像我母親這樣子的狀況我們看到她會遇到怎麼樣的狀況下一頁如果她是懷孕生產女性的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3168.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3183.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這邊就是我這邊這個照片是我親自訪問的身障媽媽陳清琦他是生命教育學院的院長常常在全國用生命教育演講他呢先生是市長那他生了小孩的時候那他必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3185.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3207.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
從新莊坐公車去基隆只是為了產檢你可以想像那個有多辛苦因為整個新北沒有一個他能夠有一個調整的一個產檯那他順利生下平安健康的小孩那整個生產的過程自己要洗澡幫孩子洗澡先生視障其實會非常大的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3208.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3237.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那所以懷孕期間沒有個人助理沒有更多的個人助理都沒有辦法安心生產你就可以看到女性的身份在懷孕生產期間會遇到的問題下一個我們看到俊翰我們知道他在求學的時間表現優異可是俊翰遇到的情況是什麼他參加大學考試每科只能延長20分鐘而且他必須要一直爭取極力爭取後來才能夠口述代筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3238.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3254.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
可是他在美國考律師執照遇到的是考務中心主動到他下他的飯店跟他報告說明安排他到考場而且只要他簽署一張不會洩題就讓他前一天開始考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3255.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3269.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因為呢,多給他一天考試,別人考兩天,他考三天。 那這樣子能夠讓他有充分的時間完成深論題。 俊翰律師說他當時考大學的時候,其實他每題都會寫,可是時間不夠。 所以這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3272.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3288.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
很大的問題他讀書期間郡安律師也說他必須要自己拜託麻煩同學做筆記可是他到哈佛大學的時候校方請他提早報告為他專門開會召集各部門校方更聘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3288.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3317.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
替俊翰做筆記的同學而且全程保密兼顧學生的隱私。我想從這兩個例子那特別是俊翰律師的難怪他會認為臺灣是第三世界國家。下一頁我想這邊也提醒院長的是身心障礙者其實是多重身份的他不是只有一個身障者身份就像這邊剛剛講的女性會遇到生產甚至要到外縣市大醫院因為產台的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3318.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3336.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
原住民呢他們也跟我澄清他們有雙重弱勢身份可是我們的國家要求他二選一所以他有時候經常不能夠確定哪一個身份對他是比較好的選擇經濟弱勢的話政府有補助輔具可是政府卻不補助維修 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3336.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3337.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這是我們台灣的處境。下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3361.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3372.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我想請問院長您覺得我們兩位現在跟未來的總統都說要繼承陳俊漢律師的遺志,我們如何可以繼承他的遺志? |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3373.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3401.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我想這個CRPD這一個法案實際上在臺灣已經國內法化而且對陸陸續續的按照這樣的一個精神來做但是就如同委員你所提的我們有很多地方還需要再加強還需要再精進的地方那我們會往這個方向來努力那包括了剛才你講的救學救養還有就業的這些部分都需要有加強的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3402.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3431.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
下一頁謝謝院長所以其實您真的非常關心這個議題您已經知道答案了答案就是我們的身心障礙者權益保障法這次修法因為十幾年沒有修了真的必須要符合我們自己已經簽署掛在衛福部網站上都可以看到細節的身心障礙者就是說權利公約這個CRPD的公約那下一頁那我想請問院長不知道您知不知道身權法 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3432.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3458.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
要怎麼修才能夠符合CRPD的國際公約呢?因為我們上一屆修到一半後來就停下來了因為彼此的落差很大那這一次如果我們說要符合CRPD的話那應該要怎麼做這個法要怎麼修才能符合呢?我想有兩個很重要的部分第一個就是由衛福部來收集我們民間還有我們立法院的一些意見第二個我們有CRPD的國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3459.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3471.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
的這個專家學者的審查他也提供了很多寶貴的意見那我們看看國外的意見是怎麼樣我們一起來修那這因為他蠻細節的不過我想聆聽看看這一個委員寶貴的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3473.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3489.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
謝謝院長您剛講的也都對是講程序上這麼做那我們來看實質下一頁他其實以我的整理有五個重點第一個障礙者要能為自己做決定那因為要落實如果沒有我的參與不要為我做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3490.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3517.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因為只有障礙者才知道他的需求是什麼那當時我們修法的爭議我的版本相關的機制要有二分之一障礙者的代表那當時至少衛福部聽起來沒有被說服第二個個人助理服務時數要充足那最近我也聽到陳媽媽講譬如說俊翰他吃飯他可能是需要兩小時可是吃飯的這個助理的時數只能給他半小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3517.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3539.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以他算是要用一個半小時要拿他的個人助理其他的時數來用那這個其實就是對家屬來講我們都看到陳媽媽已經幾乎據說全天候的在照顧他了連喘息的空間都沒有所以個人助理服務的時數也就是我想院長很了解我們要不要拿出資源來協助的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3540.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3558.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第三、障礙者要能夠在地自立生活,所以相關的環境很重要,而不是讓它機構化,機構不應該是唯一的選項。第四、很多障礙者跟我陳情,臺灣的高科技能力可以做到很好的輔具,可是都是出口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3559.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3575.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為臺灣本地沒有市場就是因為政府就是說補助經費太少所以呢他們甚至在臺灣買不到就是在臺灣的廠商生產的高科技的輔具所以高科技輔具的提供到我剛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3576.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3594.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
你補助了輔具可是卻沒有補助維修這也是不應該的最後一個就是我所講的我們所有相關的機制應該要看到多重的弱勢者而不是讓他們自己在不同的系統之間被踢皮球甚至被迫做選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3595.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3623.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那這五點就是也是下一頁也是我們最近為下一代而戰我們希望跟您一起提出的集體訴求就是一定要這次行政院的版本本身一定要符合CRPD的國際公約因為上一次修法已經是17年前了那我們2017年簽署CRPD國際公約之後本來就應該全面的檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3623.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3649.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3649.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3676.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我想這個我們一定會努力的來請這個衛福部收集相關的意見還有民間修法的建議來盡快提出修法的這個版本那更重要的我也希望在這個整個的這個制定的這個過程當中在大院也能夠得到我們朝野黨團大家的協助真的好好來幫助所有需要幫助的這些身心障礙者我想這是政府的責任我們責無旁貸 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3677.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3691.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
而一定會努力來盡快的來提出這個修法。好,謝謝院長。所以您承諾我們行政院會提出符合CRPD的生權法。謝謝院長,真的是溫暖內閣。那我也想問時間點,因為其實我們上一屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3694.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3695.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們來試試看。我們全力以赴。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3724.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3726.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
謝謝發言委員謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第三位 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3753.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3755.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
陳委員欲爭質詢陳委員早 恭喜陳委員當選連任 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3780.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3796.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
謝謝院長,歡迎再到金門跟我們指導。這個院長您說過您扶國立民的政策不會因為是看守內閣就不續推嘛。是。所以呢我們下面幾件事情我們也請院長繼續來很快的來協助我們金門地區。好,我來聆聽。 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3797.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3813.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
今年的大紅之家事實上床位非常的擁擠因為金門老齡人口老齡化非常的嚴重所以我們大紅之家事實上已經是一床籃球一位籃球大概都要等很久那之前在選前的時候本期曾經就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3816.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3832.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
警政署在金門有一個警官會館,使用率非常低,那時候我們有去辦過會刊,後來要把金門的警官會館轉型成大同之家的二館,讓我們的老年人可以及早的進駐。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3834.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3858.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個後來我在內政委員會也質詢過我們林部長。那這個我知道這個進度,部長那時候說這要等金門憲政委員簽公文上來的時候才會往下辦理。那我知道就有那個金門憲政委員已經把相關的計畫送上來了。然後警政署署長那邊也已經同意了。現在公文是到這個林部長的手上齁。那這個部長這邊是,這個案子是到你手上覺醒就可以了嗎?還是說還要到我們院長這裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3861.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3887.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
部長您先回答一下這個案子還沒有到我桌上,不過我詢問最新的一個資訊是已經送到部裡面了,我們會盡快簽辦。那到您這邊就可以了嗎?這個應該是到部就可以了,到部就可以了。到部長就可以了,然後部長您這一點會同意嗎?就是把我們警官會館,警政署已經同意了,變成我們大鴻之家的惡館,我們還是留一些空間給警政署使用還是有了? |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3888.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3914.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我想這一部分如果這個警政署跟金門縣政府已經協調好我想原則上我們會來支持不過就是跟委員報告後續的預算的部分大家再來討論這個後面怎麼來整建各方面好謝謝那我們把景觀會館就轉型成大同之家二館讓這個金門的老年人可以及早的入住大同之家對好謝謝院長謝謝院長支持預算也要支持好 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3915.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3935.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
接著這個國家公園的部分,106年金門國家公園的範圍佔了金門全島的大概四分之一。那這個民眾對這個因為國家公園是當然幫我們做得很好,保存建設也很好,但是也有很多的限制,造成居民的不便。不過我們金門一直希望比照這個澎湖跟馬祖做成這個風景管理區。 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3936.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3938.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
目前為止已經進行7年了,不知道這個進度現在如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3938.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3938.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3953.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3971.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
是,這個在2月份的時候,大概民眾跟公民團體提出來的陳情意見大概有112件。目前這個已經在修正相關的一個書圖的一個草案,那預計是大概3月中左右。那中就現在?對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3972.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3973.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
總共大概要多久的時間呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3990.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4003.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就看這個審議的結果,因為案子蠻多的,它有112件。這個請禁訴,已經進行7年了,希望520之前可以完成嗎?因為有100多件。效率好一點。我們加強啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4007.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4007.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
毛孟靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4026.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4027.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
不管在行政方面或是預算方面都請支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4052.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4081.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我們樂觀其成我們也會來協辦不過也請委員就是比如說包括像體育部體育署還有包括像這個運動基金觀光署院長這邊也是幫忙交代體育署還有交通部這邊也幫忙預算來協調我們可以來參與協辦預算的部分我們除了協辦以外我們也需要你們的經費移除我們很多事情金門縣政府都是自己比較獨立打拚大家中央都一直覺得金門縣政府的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4082.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4082.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
﹚發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4098.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4114.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我敢說我對這件事情的了解算是全面性的,我不只是只有跟聽我們官員或者是媒體報導,我事實上當面跟所有的單位都做過,包括海巡執法的當事人,包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4115.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4143.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
剛好做驗屍法醫也是我的朋友所有的還有對岸的家屬對岸的這個從國台辦到這個全州市台辦這個各個單位我都聊過了所以我想我對這件事情比較有全面性的這個了解我想請問這個院長最近到今天為止因為當然第一階段到一個段落了暫時就停下來但是已經變成一個國際的事件然後而且看起來對兩岸的這個局勢就有這個就變成是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4145.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4147.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
院長,您知道以前有一個金門協議嗎?1990年,您知道這件事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4155.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4169.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我知道有這樣的一個基本協議,但是我在這裡跟委員說明一下這個金夏海域的這個事件,實際上我們海巡署就是為了要確保這個漁民的潛意我現在只有兩個問題要問,第一個金夏協議,我要問兩個問題,第一個就是說往下是要怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4175.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4177.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我講金門快艇案就像這裡講的嘛就是一定要等到我們這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4201.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4228.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
但是法務部的速度,法務部院長,你有沒有覺得法務部大概多久可以把這個事情調查出一個大概一個初步的段落?因為今天法務部﹖您啊,您啊,你是院長,法務部沒有跟您啊。我是當然是越快越好。越快越好,比如說多久?一個月、兩個月、三個月?這個司法,我們尊重司法偵辦的時間。當然尊重司法,但是有這個涉及這麼大的國安事件的總要一個時間嘛,壓一個時間就好了。你要多久你覺得比較合理的? |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4229.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4247.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
五二零之前總是可以吧?現在都已經三月了。我們盡快,我們盡快來辦。所以你也不敢承諾嗎?這是一種決心的表現。這個我們要尊重司法。沒有尊重司法,但是你要給他時間來個案子辦得好。這種案子也不是很複雜。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4248.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4258.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那現在的情況就是說還需要一些海事鑑定啊等等的判斷嗎?那這些東西都應該要加快嘛那也不能一件事情遙遙無期嘛影響到整體的儀式發展嘛那我先問第一個問題那個院長您知道這個進門協議嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4266.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4293.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
院長知不知道?我知道,但是我不曉得你不知道,陸委會知道吧?陸委會知道,院長不了解,如果要處理兩岸事務,不知道以前跟過去的事情就很難處理現在跟未來的事情。今天協議,其實當初,那我想說,我請問陸委會好了,是不是用這個模式,下去是用這個模式,用兩岸這個紅十字會這個模式,民間的這個模式來往下處理這件事情,這樣是不是會整個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4294.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4323.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
委員的提案當然是一個可以選擇的項目那委員大家也知道1990年金門協議之後呢其實兩岸簽訂了很多的協議各部會都有很多的合作我現在是在指這一件事 包括供答犯罪啦或者是其他各部門的協議海巡署跟他們也有一些協議主委謝謝不用在這邊幫院長上課我是想請問你下去解決這個事情是不是用這個方式民間的方式來紅十字會對紅十字會模式是不是一個比較好的模式海委會要回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4324.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4343.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
報告委員我們了解過去海基會與金門地區的紅十字會也好或者是縣政府也好或者是在地的人士也好有很多合作的機會然後解決了很多的問題那這一次的案件主要是因為相當程度有升高為政治性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4345.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4348.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第二,我要問的比較重要,因為時間快到。 這個下去海巡弟兄如何執行? |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4348.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4350.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那我們看到最近比較,大家比較看到的是最近這個劉武殿的這個事件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4371.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4393.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
現在這個航道,大陸的清淨船已經進入我國的淨線制水域,在那個橘色那個框框有沒有,那個橘色是淨線制水域,那個橘色那個是大陸的清淨船,就這個劉武甸這個水道上面,它已經經過從我們的列嶼跟大海膽中間經過,那你們知道這件事嗎?以後海巡人員遇到這樣的事情第一線要怎麼執法? |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4395.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4412.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
清淤的範圍是在廈門的海域,不是在我們的近縣制海域。他的船隻已經進入我們的近縣制水域作業了。清淤之後,他航行未滯留經過近縣制水域,我們都有派船變航。大陸船可不可以進入我們的近縣制水域?做清淤? |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4412.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4414.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
不可以啊。 不可以,誰告訴你不可以? |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4418.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4423.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這是根據兩岸人民關係條例的根據交通部104年12月14號交行制有一個公告在這裡104年12月17號開始實施運送客貨輪迫經過金銜之水進入大陸地區廈門港是被允許的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4444.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4444.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4467.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4483.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在陸委會沒有充分的告知其他的相關部會的很多法律規定以後,在第一線執行的海巡練員非常的辛苦。他們不知道有一些規定是可以的,有一些可能是不行的。那你陸委會很了解這個,你知道這個東西嗎?我知道。你知道了齁?所以你知道了齁? |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4484.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4485.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我現在問的是因為第一線海巡人員要執法非常辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4509.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4528.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
他們到底要怎麼執法,什麼是可以的什麼是不可以的,應該是驅離啊,帶回來還是趕走還是怎麼樣,這個很難執法,因為對法令有一些舊的東西很多齁,過去的東西不熟悉嘛,不熟悉就是,院長我從這次的這個事件中我發現你們跨部位的協商市場非常弱的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4528.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4545.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
您們這個一定要加強尤其面對這麼重要的尤其有關兩岸關係的事情的時候有很多過去我們跟大陸累積很多的善意然後事實上有很多相關的法律規定喔事實上是可以解決很多問題的包括例子包括怎麼樣去溝通這些都是可以解決問題的有時候不一定要走到那麼劍拔弩張那個地步這麼驚嚇所謂的小事 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4554.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4554.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
拜訪議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4572.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4574.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
委員其實委員大家也知道這個其實原來已經談得到一定的程度有的有共識有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4593.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4595.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那委員你怎麼看得到呢?那這談判是秘密的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4622.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4622.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
對談是機密的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4641.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4642.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
主委,這個陸客開放到金門啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4671.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4675.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝陳委員玉珍的質詢也謝謝陳院長的備詢接下來我們請登記第四位謝委員榮介質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4714.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4742.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員長我請那個陳院長麻煩再請陳院長備選陳院長早早早早很危險喔,一隻要把你...因為今天台中的事件發生後我們的特輪剛好就延宕了大概兩個禮拜都在討論那個西部特輪的事情是 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4744.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4762.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
結果事情你也知道我們台灣人說的,瞭解的勝利沒人做,抬頭的勝利有人做。 有博弈嘛。所以剛才發聲蘇丹鴻,當然你的態度是很清楚,我也知道你看事情很苛刻,不然整棟一些委員在這裡你都變成配合了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4770.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4781.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你怎麼會讓所有台灣人覺得蓋生檢驗到的時候應該給當事人有15天的緩衝期。在那個時候,驗出蘇丹洪的時候,你看看我們就多吃15天的蘇丹洪。沒有沒有,這回事不太好。這回事就是這樣,因為什麼?冬季時你這麼做,我表的時候,做生意 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4799.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4818.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
臨檢處行政院長就說這個單位要聘人申訴申訴15天啊。你這樣講完全不對,這婚姻管政府,婚姻管政府查出來以後馬上就有通報,馬上就叫他下架,不能混為一談。我問你,臨檢處行政院院長是不是應該要即時公佈,你也說是嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4827.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4828.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你那時候是這樣跟我說的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4830.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4855.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你不會記住嗎?這兩...我...現在你說是不透露...我正在問你,你覺得不會記住嗎?我問你,臨檢出,來賀多邦以前所提出是臨檢出,但是地方檢驗機關若是檢到,是不是要即時公佈?你告訴我是嗎?若是正確的時候,是。我告訴你,所有的那個...你不會記住,好來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4858.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4873.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
但是你們最後的調查報告出來,也沒有說是否涉及到污染嗎?這樣他為什麼沒有進行?但是,那個報告,那個報告裡面, 但是你們當時是怎樣?你們當時是強烈在講,我現在不是要跟你講過去的事情,那已經是大熱嘛,你現在看到這個蘇丹紅的東西這麼嚴重,你就知道,我請教你,因為我要你去調查過去有這個案例沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4886.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4897.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
海關檢到要求退官的時候,若沒有退官,有考決,變贏一個,變更名稱：有退官： |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4902.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4913.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個蘇丹紅這件事,如果有這個辣椒粉,我怕喝到蘇丹紅,你就要退關。退關... 你的補充說什麼?你的補充說,還知道你們大家都很愛吃香的,我感覺你的補充因為這個事情,很多人都親眼分開。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4925.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4926.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我現在要請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4948.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4950.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
新聞證的事情你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4950.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4953.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我知道你說電子身份證嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4953.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4970.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
是的,好,這件事是很嚴重的。 您補充給我看,請教理一下,來。 麻煩你。 一定有一些細節我不知道了解不了解。 有啦,這我知道有這個... 現在我們大家聽到的,理解到就是說我們要賠償2.8億。 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4974.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4985.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
您對國防發布的不是賠償,是降低損失。但是議長我請教,我本身所接觸到的不是2.8億。您還有付一條4月3日給人家?你知不知道?委員你說4月3日是多一百萬。所以議長你不知道,那我請教你,沒錯嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5002.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5026.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
二、二點八億有沒有包括那些機器。 機器是現在已經存在的。 機器存在,沒有啦,機器存在開多少錢,你給我講一下。 機器存在因為它是已經支付出去,已經是架構機器。 你把副機器的錢連外國,本來我們在講的全部十億多的就是包括機器喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5028.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5049.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
你現在說我們只降到2.8億,讓我們感覺好像你很會做事啊,只有2.8億就解決了啊。 機器是資產啊。 資產,來我告訴你,你的機器,等到我們要重新發行數位身份證的時候,這機器可不可以用錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5051.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5060.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這些機器從它進口之後都全部都是依照我們相關的一個規定在做運作。它不使用之後其實就是封存。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5078.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5090.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以,我們討論的時候,全部會有10億多嘛。 啊你現在還要去去,我們不會領錢,我們不會出來說只有2.8億。 你讓所有的台灣人,只要說10億多,你喬到2.8億,很高,很高,可以出國比賽。 不是這樣。 如果用這種手法啦齁,你要公開跟台灣人說嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5103.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5132.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這條我們就是要整個那機器來我請教你我講一個好不好機器好來好委員是這樣如果我們要用數位ID的時候我們就要有那個機器嘛要有那個卡片的材料當然現在因為這個數位數位身份證還沒有要實施但是這個機器含這個材料還可以用在其他的用具你就這樣就對了嘛對他還有其他使用用具你說最可恨的嘛是啊我跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5134.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5140.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這台機器要怎麼保用?你告訴我,要放在哪裡?這台機器現在是在...放在哪裡?這台機器要開機嗎?不然會破機嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5157.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5159.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
因為當時所有的團體各界都說有各自問題 這不是你的角色我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5188.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5201.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
隱私問題啦,隱私問題。 有這個問題拿走下去,拿走下去。 因為這是一百十年的時候的決定暫緩啦,對啦。 我說的,一百十年後你們好朋友,老兄弟啊,現在的老總統啊,人怕翻車嘛,都遇到事情要面對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5212.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5222.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這就叫做標準的吃緊都破碗,你有感覺嗎?沒有啦,當初在那個溝通的規定中間...不過不管啦,溝通的規定現在出來,要了解這個事情,不對嗎?他還要審視4月3日? |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5229.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5230.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
是不是負了4.3億啦? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5230.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5237.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
各位委員報告一下喔,因為這一個政策其實是一個持續性,從民國101年的時候開始回報。沒有,剛剛委員已經講過了,因為這個機器是採購,採購進來的。 採購多少錢嘛?你怎麼這樣咧?為什麼不能講咧? |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5237.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5237.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
有保密條款嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5237.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5239.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
沒有,委員剛剛已經講過了啊。 沒有,我講的對不對啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5258.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5261.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我講四月三千萬,副理要買機器對不對啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5263.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5289.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
這個數字我在跟委員確認,不過這個數字應該,我們有支付這個買機器的一個方向。我跟國人報告,你要了解,你要去查嘛。這個本來就有啊,剛剛都跟委員說明了。當時在協議的時候就是包括買機器、維修、租金還有他的作業費,所以大約10億多。但你們現在讓我們理解就是全部只有2億8。 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5291.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5296.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
只有2億8千,所以我們已經降低損失,不要這樣啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5296.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5298.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
不然就太多問題嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5298.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5301.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這也不是你進來的過程嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5301.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5303.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
不是啦,這機器還可以用嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5303.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5312.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你要來的時候就買了也買了嘛!對,我到任的時候當然就已經採購完。 那為什麼不能把真相讓國人理解嘛? |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5312.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5314.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
不過委員這個之前都已經說明,公開說明過了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5320.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5330.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我問臺灣人看回一個知識,現在你了解到的,臺灣人聽到是沒有人。這件事情我們要賠償兩億八給廠商,但我們也已經付給他四億多機器的費用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5340.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5352.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這機器要維修、要低度運轉,那幾年後不知道我們要做這個身份證,這機器等於偷自己,那你現在說我還讓它再運轉,所以沒有虧損,機器買來備用! |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5360.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5362.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我給你保證三年來不會做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5389.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5405.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
三年後就對了,這會繼續要怎樣?不要說太多後面的人。 院長,整個決策過程,為了數位身份證這件事情,你能代表政府跟臺灣人民合謀一場嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5405.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5411.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個很難。 我說的所謂吃筋都破碗,不好意思就好了啦,不然這個不好意思你覺得需要嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5413.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5434.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這件事當初在觀點時,恰恰是在溝通時,有大家不同意見。 所以說政府目前是暫緩實施,未來溝通後看能不能持續溝通以後看結果是怎麼樣。 到目前為止確實讓大家等了好久,但是還是沒有實施。 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5435.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5460.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
你會覺得不好意思嗎?我是覺得說政府當然這點要跟民眾來表達說,其實在溝通的過程當中沒那麼順利。不然是你一句不好意思這麼說出來,我們台灣人你看這沒什麼意義,我一年這沒什麼意義,頭上人的刮青,你今天一個不好意思就對了,是代表你的管道,我是登記對你這麼謙遜的人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5463.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5482.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
但對這個事情我講的價金都不只是兩億八現在等於是最少兩億八就拍板要給人付款的賠償包括付出去的這四億多包括未來維修包括在這我幫你補償一定要我幫你補償我吃兩天三天幫你補償整個加起來超過十億 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5487.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5514.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
包括包括內政部、內部啦。我們現在就是說所有機器,假如最後我們要的方案為什麼會為什麼會因為各自的問題不敢做下去?難道這些機器沒有問題嗎?機器是沒有問題啊。你不想說全部都軟體的問題而已喔。如果你軟體改到了很周全,我跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5515.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5528.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這幾期要再調整,所以我不是在騙你啦,我是說這件事要讓國人理解不是只有2.8億,已經將近8億多了啦,沒關係。 來進報告這件事齁,我台南市齁,最近那個天坑的問題啦,你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5540.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5555.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
倒數過去歷史以來發生過這個下線幾乎都是地下市開發降百分之七十以上當然有一些公共工程那麼這一種預防性的監測來進步進展也有經歷過 有經歷過 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5559.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5571.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
是不是要針對國土署來說,你地下是開挖深度超過多少的東西,你要委外公正單位及技術專業單位來做一個監測。當然身份會提高一些,但是安全的無雙選擇。 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5578.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5584.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
謝謝委員因為從那個包括台北市的這個雞胎的這個發生這個事情之後其實一直在討論這個課題那當然我們相關開挖的規範都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5603.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5620.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
阿你提到說第三方的一個監測齁我們現在有必要嗎?我們現在正在審慎有沒有必要?我想從安全的...他就說...他就說我們從情社這必要的嘛!只從社會...這個在成本...身分證加不會很多啦!沒有啦!阿你就問說這個技術上可以提前超前監測嗎?這就要延誼嗎?可以!因為一定延誼... |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5641.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5669.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
謝謝謝委員龍姐能不能因為時間已到我們請行政院給您書面質詢答覆好吧。謝謝陳行政長備詢也謝謝謝龍姐委員質詢接下來我們請登記第五位吳委員配議吳委員配議以質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報接下來我們請登記第六位李委員驗秀質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5678.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5680.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
謝謝主席,我們請陳院長再請陳院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5689.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5708.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
理委很早,恭喜你當選理委。謝謝院長早安,我們今天希望我們可以在質詢過程當中問出一些我們民眾想要知道的一些答案跟問題。院長,我們在處理年改的時候,我們特別加了一個非常重要的條文,對於物價指數超過5%的時候,或者每4年我們都應該去列入調整。 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5714.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5725.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
今年在選舉過程當中1月4號從新聞上我也看到你有提到說今年因為我們今年CPI從111年我們CPI物價指數漲了2.95112年漲到2.49那上個月主席處公布的CPI物價消費指數又更漲到3.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5735.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5749.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
我想物價通膨你非常清楚那從111、112其實也超過5%所以我也感謝院長你看到這些指數已經超過了所以我們行政院也馬上就列入這些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5752.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5776.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
退休軍公教人員很多人都靠著退休金在生活你也非常清楚知道現在物價的指數狀況買一個便當盒要不要加蛋可能120塊要再加蛋可能變135人民的痛苦退休金增加一些些調整一些些對他來說都有很大的幫助更多人是靠這份退休金在生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5776.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5800.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以我想請問院長,距離上次的承諾,1月5號承諾,很多人批評您說,哎呀,這個又是政策選舉在買票。但是兩個月、三個月過去了,我們現在已經3月12號了,很多人都在等,不是說好要調嗎?怎麼沒有調,我在基層很多人都在問我。所以院長,你要不要回應一下,就是到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5800.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5803.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我想委員最重要的是這樣子因為這裡和物價調整有關那物價調整的最後的那幾個那幾年的這個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5829.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5852.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
是主計處要有一個正式的公告嘛。那所以但是我要跟委員講的就是說去年我們也想說可能會有超過5%所以去年就開始編列預算。 是你已經匡列了44億。院長我知道要法源有法源因為兩年加起來物價指數也超過5%我剛才已經報告過。 但是要真正要調多少要看那個物價指數所以我們才跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5853.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5878.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們的考試院以及教育部、國防部一起,所以最近這個一定會... 院長我知道這不是時間,我知道其實這個都是行政作業,不需要做到兩個月,如果這個事情你覺得很重要,其實早就應該有答案,所以我今天希望具體的幫所有軍公教同仁,請問院長到底這件事情什麼時候可以做,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5879.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5897.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
你到時候當然會追溯到1月1號,但是每個月錢都不夠用啊。所以院長到底什麼時候要做?是5、6年前?還是下個月?還是一個月內?好,在最近就會公告了。所以是各位來的?對。好,感謝院長。時間先暫停,我可不可以請林浩昌林部長。麻煩請內政部備詢。院長我時間不要一直走。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5905.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5916.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
院長我想第二個政策我想非常重要覺得居住正義是社會正義當中非常重要的一環我相信您同意我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5917.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5946.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
過去7、8年來蔡英文強調我們要興建20萬戶的社宅賴清德更談到他要興建100萬戶社宅的興建有它的挑戰跟困難度不是興建100萬戶是包括包租代管還有房租補貼但是我們都非常清楚包括林佑昌林部長您過去擔任過基隆市市長您非常清楚興建的困難度在哪裡所以我們才有包租代管政策我也關注到您在基隆市市長任內的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5948.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5948.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
來我們來看幾個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5974.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5981.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我的數據裡面大家看到包租貸款是我們整個過去20萬戶蔡英文的20萬戶包租貸款將近佔了5成 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5985.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6008.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以包租代管的政策對我們來說其實是相對重要因為興建要找土地不是那麼容易又要跟鄰近要蓋的時候又要跟住戶去做旁邊林地的住戶做更多的溝通所以包租代管是重要的政策我們也看到過去這七八年我們興建的已完成的只有12.8戶然後我們再看下一張圖表 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6009.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6009.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
當然有差異性 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6038.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6058.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那我們現在我覺得包租貸款政策做得好很重要您剛才也同意但我們給的獎勵或優惠或給的蘿蔔是你如果提出來包租貸款的話房東可以免一萬五千塊的優惠對不對但是部長你知道嗎新北市跟台北市跟基隆市 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6059.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6059.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
臨時提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6076.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6104.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
其實我覺得在各縣市應該有差異性或者放寬我們才有機會包租貸款政策能夠做得更成功。 院長部長你同意我的說法嗎?對啦但是我要跟委員講的你剛才提到因為以現在的這樣的免稅額度我們也發現這個包租貸款的事情是很蓬勃在進行甚至有些...對啦但是院長我要告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6104.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6122.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我租金很多租金都是隱形收入你積償也不好積償有沒有被課稅不好積償我配合包租貸款我反而被懲罰到房東因為我變成我的租金要揭露對不對部長你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6123.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6147.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
現在我們因為已經修法這一部分是對所以我前幾天我特別在財政委員會質詢的時候我跟莊部長討論說我覺得第一我們的包住代管成功是社會住宅居住正義當中很重要的一環達標很重要的一環但是在各縣市在15000塊第一要不是更放寬我們提高上限第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6148.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6168.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
要不然我們就應該有各縣市的租金收入的差異性。 院長您了解我的意思嗎?以台北市來說,譬如說免稅額的差異性,我們應該要出來。 我們的包租代管政策才有機會像基隆做的這麼成功。 你同意我的說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6169.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6186.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們可不可以,部長我們可不可以嚴明這樣的方向來進行。謝謝委員的這個建議,當然這個意見其實之前也有人提過,不過他也會衍生其他的一個問題,也就是因為你知道就是所有的那個補助的那個金額跟標準會整個都 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6189.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6209.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個沒有一致性還有第二個是其實我們沒有一致性我覺得一條法令的話但是這就是牽涉到你包租貸款要不要成功這件事情各縣市有他的差異性在地價也不一樣租金也不一樣你很清楚在台北市15000塊可以租到9坪的房子在新北市可以租到16坪 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6211.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6233.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以我覺得每個縣市要把包租貸款做得更成功,那個免稅額的差異性要出來,我覺得才,要不然你就把它放得更寬,要不然你把它放到3萬塊,那就有機會我們包租貸完成,所以我分兩個層次來跟您建議。第一個就是我們放寬免稅額的上限,譬如說是2萬5、3萬塊,你們去做討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6235.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6258.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
第二要不然就是各縣市要有差異性出來我們才有機會讓包租代管政策在全國各縣市都能夠做得更成功有更多的包租代管的房子願意進來社會住宅的政策才有機會做得更成功委員謝謝你的創意和建議那我們請因為這個會和政府的稅收有關係所以我們會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6259.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6262.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
根本經驗我們最重要的目標還是直接興建,那包租代管是一個過程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6280.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6283.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝委員的建議我們來研議看看可行性多少還有應該怎麼簽那個需要財政部的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6309.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6316.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
好我知道來我們就包装在網站我希望可以去做進一步的研擬好接下來是不是請部長請回我現在請邱主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6318.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6344.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
院長部長兩岸的問題其實我覺得整個院裡面不同調我實在是覺得這個到底要人民能夠安心還是應該要緊張我覺得實在是很奇怪國安部部長說他輾轉難眠邱部長說他也睡不好然後我們蔡明彥蔡局長說要國人放心台海的局勢沒有升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6345.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6372.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
國防部部長跟局長一個是在對臺灣來說一個是耳目一個是背膀但是兩個人卻是各自表述我們到底應該放鬆還是應該緊張人民應該相信誰我覺得這個問題很重要院長你上一次參加蔡總統召開的國安高層會議是什麼時候上個禮拜三 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6374.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6385.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我跟委員報告臺灣的一定知道這件事情很重要上次召開國安的高層會議是什麼時候你參與了我們有國安的早餐會報國安高層會議呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6388.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6406.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
國安高層會議有沒有針對兩岸的局勢,包括驚嚇的事件,還有包括若魯斷交,還有大陸片面取消M503的航線,針對這些事情到底有沒有召開國安高層會議?都有在討論,都有在國安的相關的會議討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6411.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6433.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
但是沒有召開國安高層會議這個有些機密性的事情我在這裡不方便說明但是確實這一些談到的我請問一下周主委你上一次參加國安高層會議是什麼時候周主委剛剛院長講的其實我們每個禮拜都有一些相關的會議在進行那這個進行包括會長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6435.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6450.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
國防、國安、還有兩岸、還有外交等等。 看起來你們兩個說是都有召開嗎?只是或許他不是叫國安高層會,但是都有召開。 那到底開了什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6450.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6454.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
有一些不能對外揭露,但是有一些應該讓人民放心啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6455.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6455.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
國安的問題我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6473.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6488.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
國安高層會議我從網路上調閱資料你們甚至對發放過去2022年發放6000塊的現金你們也召開國安高層會議針對烏克蘭的局勢你們也召開國安會議然後包括美國總統大選過後你們也召開國安高層會議所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6491.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6518.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
當然有些內容你們不能揭露但是我覺得讓外界知道每一次國安高層會議結束之後你就必須釋放出某一些訊息讓人民可以安心我們現在最大的問題是我們國安局局長跟處部長不同調一個是他輾轉難眠釋放出來的是兩岸局勢很緊張另外一個是要大家放心沒問題沒問題那到底是怎麼樣我們CNN國際分析的記者還說 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6519.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6546.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
台海的局勢沒有最危險只有更危險這是我們從媒體上看到所以我們到底是要相信誰CNN的記者還是我們要相信我們要相信蔡局長還是我們要相信邱部長還是今天邱主委要說什麼我想基本上兩岸的這個情勢它連動到所謂的國際的這個我想委員大概清楚了那基本上大概總統都會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6548.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6553.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主委、院長我覺得兩岸局勢的緊張,我覺得要讓人民知道,現在不同調,蔡總統到底是既定神事嗎?國安局局長昨天在大院的國防外交委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6571.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6574.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
國安局長的講法就是代表整個我們對國安的這個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6598.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6623.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我們也希望蔡總統要對外釋放出一些訊息。謝謝李委員燕秀的發言。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第七位馬委員文君質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6636.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6636.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
韓院長陳院長陳院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6653.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6675.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
在這裡我們剛剛也聽到非常多的委員都對我們所有不管是我們的內政兩岸其實現在有很多很多的問題都值得探討我們也非常感謝院長這段時間其實在各個政策上面我想所有的行政同仁大家都有付出不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6675.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6695.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6696.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6717.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個已經是很多年前了,這雖然是只有一個可是我記得當時是一排的日本的相關人員這是因為他們把櫻花開放的日期提早宣布只是因為這樣的錯誤他們馬上鞠躬道歉因為他們覺得對人民造成影響甚至對觀光客 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6718.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6735.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
就這個事件來看我們也看到非常多因為在整個行政過程當中很多人其實都有行政經驗可是你難免有缺失比如說像近期發生的雞蛋的事件蘇丹紅的事件還有包括像數位身份證 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6736.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6754.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
還有像淘機造成很多旅客的不便在他的起降造成很多的混亂這些在在顯示在不管政策也好各方面也好他都有存在疏失可是我們的政府尤其現在執政黨卻不願意道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6755.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6772.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
其實我覺得非常剛剛包括謝榮健議員在詢問的時候我相信院長你只是說溝通不夠好溝通不夠好其實也是一個正確的政策的不周延我們不要說現在就篤定的說他是錯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6773.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6797.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
可是至少你的不周延這個讓我們人民浪費了很多的納稅錢因為政府你掌握了所有的包括政策的決定還有包括所有的法規所有的法則還有人民的納稅錢當你在運用這些的時候如果你做了錯誤的判斷花錯了錢或者甚至造成人民的損害照理說政府都應該道歉不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6798.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6818.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
啊,如果政府有做錯就要道歉,這是確實的。所以剛剛我念的這些院長也是正文都沒有錯嗎?桃機我們的這個相關的單位都已經有到桃園機場的那個事件有道歉。然後雞蛋的事情的話,實際上這是臨北好遊的一個錯假消息嘛齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6820.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6835.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
一旦的事情我講的不是林北好友,而是我們從巴西進口,然後你這樣子的一個保存期還包括讓人民吃到不新鮮的蛋,而且花了大筆的經費,然後你再去把它銷毀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6838.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6863.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
院長,請你不要再微笑。這個部分我很慎重地講。今天如果人家可以為天后的因素都可以造成他們可以道歉。剛剛我講了,今天你在決策的過程,包括你在運用人民的錢,人民的血汗錢,當你自己在花這些錢的時候你會這樣用嗎?這是我今天要提出來的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6864.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6890.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我覺得錯誤難免今天不要說讓大家一直攻擊或者大家產生疑慮或者造成這麼多的傷害的時候政府才今天我們看到副院長行政院副院長他有提到我們以後救這個蘇丹紅的事件我們應該要怎麼樣怎麼樣怎麼樣這個不是更早之前就應該做的嗎那你沒有及時做而且造成已經嚴重危害到全台的食安的問題的時候還不應該道歉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6893.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6912.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這是沒有錯的嗎?這是我今天其實在看到很多委員提出來的時候有感而發,但本來我今天是沒有準備這一點的。 在這裡我們也請院長因為你身為整個中華民國的大家長,很多的政策決定包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6913.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6938.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
之前日本北海道他們發生那個鐵道意外事件的時候他們的總裁還以死謝罪36個人受傷他們除了道歉賠償到最後總裁過意不去還以死謝罪他自殺了我們沒有要求說我們需要這樣子需要這樣子做可是當你錯誤的時候你就應該要道歉或者甚至很迅速的不用那個不是政黨之爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6940.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6961.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這個已經影響到全臺所有的甚至包括國際的形象這個本來就應該要及時的做決定而不是這個跟在野黨或者執政黨根本沒有關係所以我想這個是我今天特別提出來的我們希望就這個部分我們盡量減少如果可以道歉或者可以負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6962.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6990.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我相信我們的政策決定會有更少的錯誤發生,因為你會更戰戰兢兢。現在大家人都來消費就好了,你如果有錯的時候甚至連茶葉跟咖啡都可以拿出來類比這是什麼樣的官員。所以我們現在要說的是當你追究責任的時候,今天為什麼我們簡單的犯了一些交通法則都要被罰九百、千萬、三千、甚至萬萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6991.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7009.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
民眾就會痛今天官員什麼都可以在站在這裡大剌剌的做錯了花了人民的錢還可以不用道歉那他當然一而再再而三的犯錯哪有關係這是我們今天要講的態度的問題這部分雖然院長我們不曉得你會不會繼續續任可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7012.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7021.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
就這個部分我們還是希望這個政府的政策或者政府的所有的行政都是延續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7023.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7043.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我可以回答嗎?好委員謝謝你的指教我想我們各部會一向都戰戰兢兢來做復國立民的工作那確實有些缺失的地方我們一定會來加以精進改善那應該道歉的我們也會道歉那很重要的這個內閣跟下一任的內閣一定是無縫接軌委員不用擔心謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7044.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7072.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
無縫接軌我們希望是對的事情,如果是有錯誤的或是偏賊,你看無縫接軌,這樣月頭要八年後面又四年,這樣大家也很累。所以在這裡我想接下來這是我們特別提出來的,另外就是就國土計畫法的部分希望是不是可以在這裡也先提出一些建議,因為這個牽涉到整個國家我們在未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7073.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7073.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7093.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7111.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我簡單舉一些例子來講,因為臺灣的地形地貌,其實它大概都是組成除了平地以外,平原以外,其實很重要的組成是山坡地還有河川,這個在臺灣分佈非常的廣泛,尤其它的面積也非常大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7111.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7125.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你從北向台北基隆基隆可能是還比較特殊的我想部長對自己的你在之前治理過的一個縣市也非常的熟悉可是往往底下包括桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7126.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7129.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我現在舉例來說比如說像南投縣的縣內他大概74%的那個土地位置都是在國土保育區上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7149.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7149.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
國土計劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7164.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7189.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
為什麼說有不周延的地方?因為在這個過程當中各縣市政府當初是委託各縣市政府去辦理相關的這些分區土的劃設不過因為人力還有資源還有很多的因素其實他沒有辦法去實地的去做現勘或者就現有的一個現況現貌去做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7190.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7204.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
而是照過去的一些圖資所以有一些圖資他已經很久了比如我舉例來說我相信院長跟部長都對濟南大學一定有印象吧濟南大學是一個台地 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7205.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7223.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
他這個臺地他也在山坡地上可是既然他大學這個臺地他已經從早期甚至有平埔族還有原住民族其實因為埔里是一個盆地像這些臺地都非常的穩定然後也沒有從來沒有發生過什麼土石流啊什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7223.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7223.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7243.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7243.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7273.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7293.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
可是你當你用這個圖面直接把它畫上去的時候,我旁邊中壇公路大家也有走過嘛,從台中要到日月壇這一條公路,其實它旁邊有很多的住宅,很多的民宅,它是私有地喔,而且是建地,可是它都被河川治理線直接畫,不能蓋房子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7294.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7321.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不能居住,它已經在那裡蓋了好幾十年,住了好幾代了,可是因為你這樣一畫,它是有地耶,又是間地耶,然後它的河川是可能在旁邊的10米,幾乎也不是10米,10層樓高,它要淹也淹不上來,可是你畫不是就現況,你沒有去現地看,說這個到底要不要規範它,那你直接就畫一條線它就不能用了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7322.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7340.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
所以在在的顯示我們我舉這些例子是說我們在整個國土計畫法裡面其實各個縣市都有發生這樣的問題是不是就還沒有很周延沒有辦法用現況去做調整的情況之下是不是可以暫緩實施因為這個部分我們請因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7343.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7365.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這是人民的權利的問題包括他的財產權我想這個可能全國各地都有發生所以這個部分在請院裡面是不是院長可以跟相關的部門或者相關的部會可以做充分的溝通聯繫然後再一次審慎的評估因為不然你到時候又會像一些農地上面的工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7366.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7391.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他明明是違法的可是你現在想方設法讓他就地合法那又傷害到很多原來在農地上面耕作的農民他蓋他要蓋農舍很困難可是像可以營利的工廠其實我們這個當然也是有一些歷史的淵源那你又立了這樣的法再去再去讓他變成好像可以合法所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7392.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7393.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
國土計畫法在各個縣市在執行上都有很大的困難,而且各個縣市來負責,所以我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7409.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7412.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
國土計畫一開始的核心其實就是因為我們台灣的國土超限利用所以為了國土的永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7436.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7451.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那當然他在畫攝的時候從國土的保育的區域開始畫攝這第一點。第二個你剛剛提到的這些問題在實際縣市政府在執行推動的時候的確有碰到這些困難所以我們國土署在跟地方政府在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7452.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7469.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
．條溝通的時候也針對這些問題希望能夠這個意義的來解決那第三呢這個你剛提到的那個應該是行水就是應該是水利的行水區跟他實際的這個使用分區有 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7470.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7495.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這個落差不符合的這個狀況那這個其實是可以個案來做檢討不是不是部長這個不是個案我剛剛講的它全部都是普遍的問題因為它整條河流它整條河流不是沒有沒有不是它不是我說的不是它不是河川治理線而已它還有包括它因為我們在整個範圍裡面我們有提到的可能包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7495.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7499.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以我說的不是個案他是整條河川線 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7525.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7526.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
時間是法定在裡面,所以這部分還需要,時間還需要修法。第二個是我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7577.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7579.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
謝謝馬文君委員的質詢。謝謝陳議長的備詢。報告院會現在休息10分鐘。我們現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8172.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8194.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
現在我們繼續開會接下來我們請登記第8號李委員昆城質詢謝謝院長我們請陳院長再請陳院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8202.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8230.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
院長恭喜你當選謝謝,謝謝院長這個昨天看到一個非常難過而且憤怒的一個新聞那就是有這個保姆涉嫌把兒童虐待致死的案件那相信院長也看到這個新聞我看了很難過我相信大家看了都非常難過那尤其我們自己有小孩看到這個新聞會非常難過就是說這個問題就在於說這個小孩他是在一個高風險家庭的一個家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8231.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8256.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
然後他透過這個新北市社會局跟台北市社會局轉介到這個兒童福利聯盟那兒童福利聯盟呢他也去找了這個具有這個合格的居家保姆證書的人的保姆來照顧這個小孩但是從這個去年的9月送到這個流行保姆到去年的12月24號這個兒童被虐致死死亡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8257.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8259.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
在這個環節就我們目前所掌握的確實在對於這些兒童我們是需要有定期去訪視了解他的情況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8272.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8295.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那就我們所了解呢,他這個訪視的這個情形呢,雖然有趣,可是並沒有發現問題所在。 所以我們衛福部呢,實際上在就已經因為這個重大事件的發生,希望能夠來了解,更了解這個地方政府所做的這一些情況。 那並且呢也規定了這個訪視的頻率要增加,而且訪視人員的這個訪視的能力也要加強。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8302.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8321.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個訪試包含這個臺北市社會局的訪試然後還有兒福聯盟社工的訪試那我看一下這個新聞的報導就是說這個臺北市的訪試到目前為止只有一次那這個兒福聯盟的訪試本來應該一個月一次應該有4次但是到12月的時候那一次因為保姆說有其他問題就不讓他看 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8322.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8342.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在最後一次沒有看到,但是最後一次12月4日就發生這個悲劇了。所以說剛剛院長提到說這個訪視的頻率要增加。當然就是說我認為就是說當這個社工去做訪視的時候,如果能夠多了解一下這個孩子的一個兒童的身體跟心理的狀態, |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8343.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8348.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
或許在12月之前就能夠發現這個問題所在我自己也認為說有三個問題也請教一下院長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8352.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8376.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
第一個我們要先檢討高風險家庭兒童轉介的安置的機制因為他是高風險家庭他跟一般的比如說我們送給保母居家保母我們還可以定期去看我們可以瞭解一下說保母的情況是怎麼樣但是這個是屬於高風險家庭父母都不在有跑路有的在監獄裡面沒辦法看就完全只能託給這個兒福聯盟還有他們的這個社工去造勢去訪視這是第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8377.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8396.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
第二個就是說這是老問題的社工缺人低薪流動率高而且在訪視的時候呢他並沒有公權力就是說如果保姆不讓他去看他也沒辦法看他頂多就是說做個這一個登記這樣子作為下次要不要再續聘這個保姆的一個機制而已他沒有公權力然後第三呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8397.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8422.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
居家保姆的審核機制我也認為要加強因為據報導就是說有一位無姓主播他們本來也有跟這個流性保姆也有接觸他也到他家裡面去看過他發現說整個這個居家的環境並不適合照顧他的小孩所以他們就最後沒有讓他接這個案子但是我不知道說為什麼兒福聯盟他們去看了之後發現說那這個流性保姆的家裡是適合照顧這個幼兒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8423.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8441.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以我認為說對於這個居家保姆的審核機制我認為也是要加強啦委員這裡所提到的這三個機制確實是三個問題確實是需要有加強的地方那對於社工缺人低薪流動率高這個問題我要跟委員報告事實上我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8441.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8468.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8468.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8468.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8476.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8498.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這個社工他們是很辛苦啦,這個他們壓力也很大,然後所以說我是希望說在這個錢的部分,預算的部分,能夠再給予這個協助,再給予協助啦。這個是有關於,我昨天看到這個新聞,我是真的是非常難過。我也很痛心,然後難過,而且對政治也很憤怒啦,說怎麼可以這樣對待小孩。 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8499.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8528.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我也希望說這個檢察官或是最後在法院在這個階段的時候不要再輕輕放過啦每次每次這種兒童虐死案那事情的風波新聞一過之後大家就不重視了然後最後在這個量刑這方面都沒有符合社會的期待啦對於正義的期待這檢察官現在已經在偵辦當中啦那他所設的這個罪嫌最高是可以處10年以上的有期徒刑但是我們希望法院在判案的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8528.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8538.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
院長提到這個詐騙集團,剛好有兩個選舉證件要請教一下院長。第一個是加重詐騙的行動,第二個是有關於推動交通安全基本法。這是我在選舉的時候,這是我的證件,所以今天利用這個寶貴的時間來請教這個院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8556.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8580.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那這個齁,我們行政院老實講齁,在關於這個詐騙這方面,投入的人力啦、物力啦,防止這個詐騙的決心,那甚至這個完成打詐無法。但是老實講,我們自己在選舉的時候,大家最,就是最嫌罪多的地方,就是打詐。就認為說政府有做,但是民間的感受跟政府做的這個期待是有很大的落差的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8582.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8585.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
按照107年到111年警政署的刑事案件統計,詐欺成長只有詐欺是成長26%,其他毒品切到酒駕都有下降,詐欺是成長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8606.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8635.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
然後呢,詐騙的這個經濟規模我用這個財產的損失還有這個攔阻的金額把它算起來當作一個是一個詐騙的經濟規模從2021年的81.5億到2023年呢到了178.5億就是說這個詐騙的總金額其實是提高的雖然你攔阻有增加但是總的金額是增加的所以民眾不滿呢就在於說這個詐欺這個時代是非常的氾濫 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8636.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8644.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
而且法官的輕判,剛剛有提到,法官輕判舉幾個案子,洗錢90億涉案20人,結果態度良好就緩刑。查詐騙集團還有賭博網站的洗錢水房,30人以3萬到20萬元交保,很輕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8658.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8673.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
警方的N化車收證沒有證據能力,然後最後是詐騙集團這四個人無罪定驗,這個都跟人民期待有非常大的落差。然後法務部的統計,詐欺判刑在3年以上只佔0.5%,從106年到110年,這5年,這個總共判刑3年以上, |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8681.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8682.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
﹚三、3月12日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8700.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8714.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
現在的詐騙是一個有組織性的科技、金融、智慧化跟結合暴力集團的一個新型態的犯罪手段。所以把這個刑責加重,然後強化電信業者還有數位中介服務提供者的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8715.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8738.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
防止詐騙的義務跟責任還有最後就是納入這個量刑的準則不要說有的判得很輕有的無罪那是判得很重的很少所以我想請教一下院長跟部長現在關於這個打詐專法那應該是有這個會用打詐專法的方式來這個杜絕這個詐欺我想請問一下目前進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8738.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8761.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
現在打詐裝潢正在請各部會來積極嚴禮裝潢的內容這一個部分會健全電信金融機構還有數位經濟的管理等等這一個部分我們會來提高詐欺的行則都會用打詐裝潢來做我們也希望能夠盡快的來完成送到大院來做審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8761.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8781.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那有辦法在520之前送來我們立法院嗎?我來請他們加緊看看。不過我這一件整件事情是羅秉成政委在統籌。那我也要請教他最近發布會這一個努力的程度。我知道你們最近有密集在開會啦。那部長? |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8783.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8802.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
部長,這個組織單位應該是內政部嗎?我們是統籌,因為這部分會涉及包括金管會、NCC書發部還有法務部相關的一個單位,所以院是交由內政部來提案領銜,不過這涉及相關機關。那我跟委員報告最新的進度是3月7號的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8804.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8822.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
各部會所提的相關的一個草案已經回到內政部我們在進行會診那接下來在3月的下旬還有4月的下旬會由院這邊來密集召開相關的一個會議來進行進一步的一個討論那院裡面的一個指示是希望用以這個會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8824.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8825.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
來提交立法院為目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8845.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8863.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這是給你們期許,至少表示一個決心,我們要做了。另外也跟內政部有相關的就是說,我們在之前有通過道路交通安全基本法,現在行政院也把行人交通安全設施條例也送到立法院來做審查了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8864.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8882.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
然後呢我老實講齁這個在我們在這個選舉的過程當中齁就很多的這個民怨也關於就是說齁這個齁呃有關於人行道齁這個都沒辦法整治那沒有一條齁這個安全的路齁可以我可以從這個比如說從捷運站走到某一個定點齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8883.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8902.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
其實這個捷運站應該已經算是一個重要的交通設施。它附近周圍的這個交通的這個人行道的整治或是關於這個行人安全的這個措施應該是做得最好。但是我發現其實我們還有很多需要加強的地方。那按照這個目前我所拿到的資料是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8903.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8904.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這一部分我請部長來回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8929.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8942.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
謝謝委員因為院長非常的重視所以我們有一個永續提升人情安全的一個計畫所以這個是有4年400億那內政部的部分我們是有260億那會分4年來編列分別是20、100、140跟140那我們特別還針對兩個部分是全額補助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8952.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8969.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
這跟過去比較不一樣,一個是交通部盤整提供依照式路口的清單,那它可以在113年底前完工的話,這個是全額補助。另外是全民參與街道改善決策平台在全國前10名者,這部分也全額補助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8971.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8992.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個我按照你們的這個通過的草案這個新聞稿上面我是認為就是說你們是有提到重點但是最後是另外一回事所以你們說現在既有道路上面這個電信箱、油桶、消防栓這些公共設施老實講我們每次在會館的時候也都是遇到這些公共設施這是台電的、這個是中華電信的、這是哪裡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8996.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9003.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我跟委員報告一下這個中央圖法不足以執行地方政府的執行力非常的重要那現在地方政府基本上都有一個這個五大這個管線的整合的一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9020.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9037.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那就是做得細不細膩的問題這是第一點。第二個過去的確是東做一段西做一段他可能雖然我們看起來全國的總體的改善的數據或者每一個縣市改善的數據好像看起來很多但是他實際上他並不是串聯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9037.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9059.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我們在這一次的計畫裡面的KPI會跟過去也不一樣。我們會把所謂的連續性的人行道的長度或者是它連續性的這個開放空間或者是廣場人可以這個安全行走這個空間的面積連續性的面積這個會定為未來的一個KPI跟過去比較不一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9061.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9079.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個齁,你們有四個主要的計畫啦。第一個,入口設施不良的改善。第二個就是說,都市計畫道路一定寬度的人行道要改設。然後第三呢,就是剛剛部長所講的,行人友善區。然後第四呢,指定路段統一重修。那這個都需要錢。我是認為啦,四年四百億已經不夠用。就像很多這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9080.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9107.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9121.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9121.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
謝謝李委員、崑禎 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9141.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9155.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
謝謝李委員、昆城的諮詢。謝謝陳委員長的備詢。接下來第9號沈伯陽委員之諮詢已書面提出。請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。接下來我們請登記第10號張委員亞林諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9176.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9183.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
有請院長跟部長,謝謝。再請陳院長跟內政部,謝謝。總委員好,恭喜你。謝謝院長,院長早安。早安。首先在開始之前,我想要,剛剛李昆城委員也有提到,就是一歲凱開的這個招虐事件。所以這幾點,是因為我看了這個事件之後,我覺得有三個疑點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9205.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9220.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這三個疑點呢主要是說為什麼訪視的社工發現孩子明明有狀況可是卻沒有積極的去通報主管機關那再來就是說第二個是原保姆他本來就已經打算要收養可是為什麼被拒絕第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9222.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9239.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
家長為什麼他沒有選擇攜子入獄是他不曉得有這個可以申請嗎?所以這有三大疑點是希望院長可以責成相關單位去釐清事實的真相看看還有沒有什麼制度面我們可以再改善的那還給家屬一個公道這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9241.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9268.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝委員的關心這一個部分確實我們已經請這個衛福部來加強跟這個臺北市政府這邊聯繫然後來了解這個整個事件的來龍去脈希望這件事情不要再發生謝謝謝謝院長那接下來就是進到我今天想要問的有關於第一個問題就是國家為什麼這幾年要積極的推動永續這件事情可以請院長回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9270.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9299.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我想國家的這個永續的發展這個sustainable的這個國我SDG實際上是每一個國家都很重要因為它會牽涉到一個國家的政治、經濟、環境、社會等等的發展還有這個人權的這個保護這都是在這個整個永續發展裡面永續目標裡面我們所需要注意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9300.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9326.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
對,剛剛院長有提到就是包含人權的保障,那其實我可以這樣說嗎?就是我們是要保障下一代有一個更好的生活環境,院長跟部長認同嗎?完全認同,而且這也是我們政府應該做的,而且要鼓勵民間一起來參與。那其實兒童遊戲是過去經常被疏忽的一環,那兒童其實是透過遊戲來發展他的身心健康。那不曉得說院長您看這個圖,您知道這是在哪裡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9327.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9350.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我不知道我孫子都比較大了所以沒有覺得沒有很多好像可以攀爬可以那個玩耍的地方對不對好這其實是兒童的職能治療室好那其實有國外的非常多的研究大家都在說明說其實通過充足的遊戲是可以幫助兒童身心發展可以延緩一些問題的那所以呢在去年的時候我們國家有個統計的數字是 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9351.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9366.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
疫情之後兒童身心發展的遲緩人數達到了新高所以我想大家應該非常了解就是說兒童遊戲真的是非常非常重要除了是保障一般兒童還有包含就是幫助兒童可以有更好的避免這些身心疾患的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9368.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9382.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
再來,我們更公立的來講,從國家經濟來講,世界經濟論壇其實在2018年開始就去倡議兒童需要透過遊戲來去學習未來世代必須具備的關鍵能力,像是解決問題的能力、人際關係能力,還有創造力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9385.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9402.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
再來我想再分享一個故事,我們不要那麼功利,我們溫暖一點。就是過去我在民間,我一起訪談了非常多的家長,你為什麼會想要來公園玩?其中有一個爸爸講了一個故事讓我覺得非常的感動,他就說大家都教我們爸爸一定要陪小孩,可是我真的不知道怎麼陪小孩。 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9402.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9403.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好,這個很重要。 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9421.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9422.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
反紅色框框的是公務員數量正在減少的現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9449.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9476.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我們可以看到總數雖然是成長可是呢從彰化或是新竹縣市呢它其實是以二分之一到三分之一的數量在減少那我也非常清楚這是為了符合國家遊戲場的標準所以他們做了一些拆除的動作那也非常感謝國土署在去年編列了一個兒童遊戲場環境設施改善計畫10億元的經費那我想要問一下就是我知道第一階段已經申請結束了現在應該還有3億元那我想要知道說現在第二階段申請的狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9481.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9495.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
第二階段的話,剩下3議員大概是在3月12日到3月13日來進行審查會議。那如果是獲得委員同意的這些相關的案件,我們會儘速通知地方政府來辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9497.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9520.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我想問一下我跟委員報告一件事情因為這個特殊公園這個案子其實是要非常謝謝院長的支持這10億元是額外增加的這個最主要就是我們要來處理在112年以前因為有一些不符合規定的這些兒童遊憩場的郵具拆掉之後地方政府沒有錢把它重新恢復所以才有這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9521.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9535.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
沒錯,那我想請教院長跟部長,我們在下一個階段,因為接下來就是有一些要再做審查部分,可是因為我們剛剛有講永續,有一件很重要的事情,也要面對氣候變遷。但是院長也可以看到圖片裡,小孩在哪裡?很熱 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9537.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9552.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
小孩全部躲在那個有遮蔭的地方。 溜滑梯不能溜了,太熱了。 沒錯,太熱了齁。 那再來看到旁邊那張圖,在同一個時間點我們的自然素材跟橡膠地鏈的溫差達到了12度喔。 對,所以其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9553.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9568.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我們因為氣候變遷兒童的遊戲權其實也在受影響所以我在我在想我們在下一個階段裡面我們是不是可以因應氣候變遷的關係再把這些遮蔭設備自然撲滅、吸水設施來作為一個預算核定的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9570.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9570.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我跟院長還有跟委員做個補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9594.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9620.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個特殊公園的指引帶遮蔭設備還有包括自然鋪面這大概是在設計準則裡面或者一般的設計大概都會把它納入那最細水設施必須要考慮的除了建制的成本之外其實後續的維護跟管理的成本是更大那這個會涉及地方政府是不是有這個財政的能力可以負擔所以可能不會每一個公園都會設所謂的這個細水的一個設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9621.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9638.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好我再說明一下這三項其實它不一定是全部都需要具備但是希望整個城市裡面盡量的去考量到這個溫度的關係造成兒童有些人受損的影響所以不一定是全部都要那剛剛部長有講到就是說涉及到地方預算嘛所以下一題就是來講預算的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9639.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9668.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
那個預算其實是因為像現在各縣市政府以六都來說我過去在民間六都其實相對有資源也知道怎麼去做一些維管可是其實在非六都的地方他們不管是預算來說非常吃緊而且相對來說他也不知道怎麼去做維管所以在這個時候他們常常就會自己做然後拆了之後被罵上報了他們又覺得很可憐很無辜所以我在想我們是不是有可能中央來成立在下一階段除了這個第二階段結束之後我們還不會有預算持續的來協助地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9670.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9670.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我來補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9690.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9714.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
其實這個特色公園他可以在他有不同的尺度他也可以在不同的場域所以這個經費跟預算也不一定單單只有在內政部我舉一個簡單的例子來說好了在過去比如說像教育部在補助地方的校園的遊戲場的改善其實就有很多的縣市是把特色公園的精神融入而且他不花很多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9715.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9744.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
他可能用一個同胞的一個方式後來發現說在這樣子的一個做法之下他可以做得多又做得好又做得快所以有現在已經有這些案例跟經驗來做分享這第一個第二個是因為有一些是比如說是在林里公園有一些是在體育場或者是運動場有一些可能尺度更大一點在所謂的都會公園那他都有不同的這個單位在做權管跟負責那 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9745.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9766.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那但喔因為如果全部都是由中央這個其實地方其實最重要其實執行是在地方政府啦那我們所以我們在中央是希望有一個賠利的一個團隊能夠來協助做的比較沒那麼好的地方政府或者是包括鄉鎮市工作市公所幫他們來做人力的賠利 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9768.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9794.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我想預算當然會來自於可能各部會因為跟他相關的主管機關有差別但我希望就是院長可以全力的來支持不同的部會都一起來推動兒童遊戲權的這件事情在能夠建設的地方我們就盡量去建設去支持那再來第二個部分剛剛部長也有提到就是說因為尺度的差異非常的大那其實地方縣市有些是非六度的地方他們其實真的很難了解我們是不是有可能有一個中央的主管機關因為我們從現在的這個配置我們的組織圖上面是完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9795.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9795.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
內政部內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9809.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9829.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這個專職單位的設定就像剛才講到的,因為它不同的部會可能也有不同的職責。但是內政部有將近三千個,那至少內政部針對這三千個組織的縣市是不是可以來做一個中央的專職單位,帶領大家一起來成長,不然就變成是各縣市都各自的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9829.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9848.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
其實跟委員報告一下,其實並不完全是內政部所全管,因為剛剛在提到他可能涉及很多不同的部會,只是大家聽到公園兩個字會直覺覺得是我們的過去的營建署。不過實際上在地方政府在全管的時候,其實他是分在不同的局處裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9850.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9871.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
對,所以在地方應該怎麼樣來,我覺得中央這邊有一個很重要的一個工作,就是怎麼樣empowerment,讓地方政府知道這個特色公園的設立應該怎麼樣,那未來等到他們的能力有提升以後,那一些單位應該要來負責,我們可以再來試著跟他們溝通。 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9872.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9872.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
當然可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9898.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9920.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
再來就是說我也在想說我們是不是有可能舉辦一些國際研討會因為國際的部分其實都已經在這個領域日新月異了自然地景的設施像剛剛部長說的可是現在大家台灣的各縣市承辦他們知不知道這個他可以這樣子做其實是不知道的那我們是不是可以舉辦這個國際研討會來支持把這些新的知識帶進來給大家讓大家一起成長呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9920.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9937.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這也是Empowerment的一部分。對,所以這個部分我們可能請相關的民間團體來主辦或者是跟政府一起合辦這樣的一個國際研討會,找最棒的單位來分享。 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9938.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9952.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
謝謝,謝謝院長。接下來,因為我時間有限,我先來講這個兒童遊戲權的部分。其實我們過去在講兒童遊戲權的話,我們好像都沒有講到,我們都沒有蓋到12歲到18歲孩子的遊戲權。那他們在哪裡?他們就在手機上面玩。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9953.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9976.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
⋯⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9977.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10004.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那這邊都有非常多青少年這邊做很多的挑戰所以是真的青少年不來還是我們沒有提供這個空間我認為是我們沒有給他足夠的空間那在世界經濟論壇他也提到就是說我們如果有足夠的挑戰性是可以幫助孩子降低未來事故的發生率作為一個媽媽我真的非常在乎這件事情就是每一個孩子都是家長心頭的寶貝我們如何的去創造空間讓孩子可以兼具學習跟修憩所以我們是不是可以補助全台 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10004.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10007.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
玩每一個縣市至少有一個青少的遊戲空間呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10010.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10039.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我想青少年遊戲場還有另外實際上也蠻重要的就是青少年運動的一些活動場所其實都還蠻重要的至於要補助一縣市青少年遊戲場的這件事情我們得要跟地方政府來好好的協商看看什麼樣的這大概什麼時候可以有一個進度呢我想我們還是請內政部來回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10039.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10058.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
委員我跟您報告一下,我在地方擔任國首長,我想講的是其實這個事情不管是12歲以下還是12歲到18歲的這個遊戲場,其實縣市政府其實就可以做。這個縣市長重視的話,像以前基隆那麼窮,我們自己就可以做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10058.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10067.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
但中央我想現在我們在中央那當然可以去就整個全國去把它做一個整體的一個規劃我們來研究再跟院長做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10071.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10094.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那再來最後一個問題就是說剛剛李昆城委員有提到道安的問題這兒少事故居安不下居高不下那我想問一下就是我們也責成了相關的預算去做這件事情但是我們有沒有什麼樣的評估機制來評估到底有沒有真正的改善那最後我想分享一個就是北美交通安全官員協會他們有提到就是說我們大人知道兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10114.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10137.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
謝謝張委員、雅琳的質詢。後續有什麼資料送給行政院請進行送交行政院好嗎?那如果要什麼資料請行政院來答覆你。謝謝張委員、雅琳的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會,內政組織質詢現在已經詢答完畢。我們休息五分鐘之後進行外交及國防組織質詢。現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10453.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10481.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
報告委員會,現在繼續開會進行外交及國防組織質詢。我們先請省委員柏陽質詢。謝謝主席,那有請院長還有國防部部長,謝謝。請陳院長及國防部備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10486.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10490.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好 院長好 部長好那今天我的題目非常的簡單就像這個簡報上面看到的就是在討論這個卓越中心那但我也不得不說其實卓越中心這個名字對大家來講一定都非常的陌生 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10514.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10534.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那我覺得他其實蠻適合在總質詢這樣的一個場合來跟大家介紹一下就是到底是什麼是卓越中心因為我認為總質詢非常重要的一點是在於對於重大的政策跟方針我們來確認然後以及說未來的方向大概是什麼所以在這邊也希望能夠跟院長稍微對齊一下就是其實我一直都認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10535.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10555.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
總質詢很重要的一點是,如果能夠書面解決,能夠書面徵詢的,我們也沒有必要在總質詢浪費時間。第二點就是,其實還是很希望官員能夠有更多的時間,詳細的答覆。因為在各國的立法例上,其實官員的答覆才是質詢的重點。因為這才是可以讓國人知道到底現在及時的我們對於這個政策到底是什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10556.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10565.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們再用我們的專業來進行相關的一些辯論那很可惜的就是一直以來我們到現在我們很多的這個質詢的現狀常常問一些無關的問題然後問一些細節比如說問部長這是幾年幾月幾號才有辦法完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10571.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10572.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我今天其實就只有兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10589.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10617.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
第一個問題是跟認知作戰有關因為畢竟台灣現在面臨這個中國不斷輿論的攻擊之下我認為認知作戰應該是我們現階段最需要面臨的問題那第二個問題呢就是跟卓越中心有關所以第一個問題呢最主要的就是說我們想要釐清以國人的角度來講到底什麼叫做認知作戰那部長可能也很熟悉就是其實以這個中國的用語來講就是所謂的輿論戰所以呢從作為一個影子稍微整理了一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10617.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10639.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
目前這個國防部有提到認知作戰的一個狀況,這裡面很多細節當然不一一過去,但我就隨便講一兩個紅色的部分,比如說這個金門的失聯兵或是廈門防,這個部長有提到這可能是一個認知作戰,又或者說這個網傳金門二單島又有逃兵,那這邊也有提到有可能有認知作戰的伎倆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10640.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10658.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那其實以一般國人的角度來講,它的第一個反應通常就會是到底什麼是認知作戰。也就是說我們今天假設國防部出來講認知作戰它的標準是什麼,然後以及譬如說是誰發動的,它的手法是什麼,還有我們應對的方式是什麼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10658.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10670.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
所以在這邊想要先就教於部長趁這個機會讓大家知道說以往過去這些狀況我們說這個是一個認知作戰那我們的標準然後以及我們認定的方式大概是什麼樣子謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10671.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10685.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我跟委員報告,這個錯角訊息是一個最認知作戰當中最明顯的。它主要發起的原因在哪裡?就為了要打擊我們,不管軍民實現士氣等等。但它的時機點它也會選擇,比如說最近有什麼議題,它會趁機擴大。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10691.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10715.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以認知作戰的含義就是說在當時的狀況它無聲無息的加進來讓大家認為這是一個普遍的現象所以這的確是蠻嚴重的一點一滴的會影響到不要講說軍方民間的心理也會受到很大影響所以我們在這一方面國軍在對認知作戰防衛方面是做得很徹底 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10716.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10745.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我們現在基本上因為國家有一個治安防護的一個團隊應變的一個團隊我國防部也是當中的一員那除了配合這個應變團隊的這個行為舉止以外我們是以國防部裡面部內的安穩所當其衝所以我們簡單講一下在部內我們平常就注意到怎麼樣防守讓這些事情不發生一旦發生了我們怎樣馬上把他給抵平這樣的話是我們克刑執責的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10746.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10768.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝部長那剛剛部長有提到其實蠻重要的一點是在於軍心士氣的一個打擊那又或者我們對於輿論的一個影響那在中國的這個三戰裡面的新戰、輿論戰等等之類是分開的那剛剛部長也有提到資安相關的我們有自動電那我們在這個輿論戰的認定可能會有政戰但我現在會國人很容易疑惑的一點是我這邊用這個這個上個禮拜這個的一個業務報告為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10771.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10796.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
就是這邊在最後面畫紅線的這個部分有提到中共利用了這個官方媒體側翼組織在地協力者所以很明顯官方媒體是蠻重要的一個發動單位那我個人認為當然311基地就是解放軍61716部隊也是非常重要的但是因為在報告裡面有提到像側翼在地協力者這樣的一個字眼那我想國人第一個反應一定會是說那誰是在地協力者 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10797.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10821.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
又或者說今天發生的這個國防部指認是一個認知作戰的案件那今天這一個案件誰是在地協力者我們要怎麼知道他是那關於這一點國防部有沒有有一些可能準則啊或者一些說明?跟委員報成為這個整個標題啊這認知作戰一樣那在地協力者也是一個認知的問題我們只要講到你有任何訊息對我們反而不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10822.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10840.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
以造成一些言論對我們不利,對他對方有利,這我就初步就認為他在地協力者。但至於他到底是或不是,後面不管檢調單位他們去查。我想每一個人他做任何事情他臉上不會貼一個標籤。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10841.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10856.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
所以他如果看機會,所以他一開頭就跟委員報告,他這個認知作戰的時機是看整個環境目前有什麼動態,他加進去讓我們不知不覺的就中到這個圈套,這就是可怕的地方。 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10857.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10875.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝部長,因為這邊就是可以明顯的感覺到就是當然他們今天不管是用滲透的方式、地面的方式又或者說網路大量的假帳號這一些有時候對我們來講很容易認定它是否來自於中國或者解放軍的攻擊但有時候在地協力者有時候他可能會說那是他的言論自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10876.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10898.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
甚至有時候在放大中國言論還包含我們自己的立法委員所以有時候就很多曖昧不清的狀態那這種曖昧不清的狀態現階段對我們來講有時候就會形成國防部跟國人溝通的障礙因為有時候我們並沒有辦法那麼清楚的告訴大家誰才是在地協力者連我們的法律就這一點其實都是不清楚那更不要講說我們可能在相關的準則、藥缸 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10899.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10900.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
現在我想要再問的是 我們剛剛講的是標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10921.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10921.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
黑色的部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10937.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10938.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
中國在操作的痕跡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10953.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10972.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
另外一個是一年一物易,這邊也有一些他們製造的謠言圖,因為是謠言放在國會殿堂實在是很討厭,所以我先趕快換下一張。但也可以看到那個黑色的部分也佔了一定的量體。但是在這兩個案例,我們都覺得這是一個中國有介入的痕跡,一物易相關的謠言,然後還有這個潛艦國造相關的謠言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10975.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11002.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
但國防部在這兩個案件並沒有特別出來告訴大家這是認知作戰。那我知道國防部可能有自己的,譬如說不管是國家安全的考量啊、政策的考量。但是我們在怕的事情就是說,如果我們今天即使確定了我們的標準是什麼,我們有一個準則告訴大家什麼叫做認知作戰。但有一些案件我們說是,有些案件我們沒有發言。那在這樣的狀況之下我們要怎樣讓這件事情變得一致,不知道部長有沒有這方面的想法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11002.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11029.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我跟委員報告啊,要定一個標準都很困難的。就好像講在我們國軍同仁當中,你要哪一個他不是忠誠愛國的。但他會做出一些啊,不管是一些維密啊,或者他不留意,造成一些困擾。但我們不能講,哎,界定。你違背規定了,這規定是既有的。但違背哪些規定,你要一條條列出來,對軍中來講沒問題,我可以列出來。但對民間來講,我要做很清楚的界定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11029.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11053.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
怎麼樣我就認定你是一個在地協力者我真的沒有辦法只能看他從這個發出來的信息當中最後不管經過檢調、偵查或者看他後續發展有什麼影響到我們真的有什麼其他比較違背常理的這種反應的話那我們就可以慢慢判定他是在地協力者只有這樣來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11055.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11076.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
謝謝,那部長你這邊提的很好,就是在於說因為它非常困難嘛,界定上它非常的困難,所以我們與其把它當作一黑一白,不如把它當作像是一個光譜一樣,譬如說哪一些是比較接近中國的操作的認知作債,哪一些比較不接近,如果我們有具體的譬如說這邊有列出來一些相關可能的一些標準,我稍微往後一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11077.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11091.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
就是呢譬如說不管是這個時機啦可信度啦帳號潛伏的程度啦等等之類的如果這個可以在某個準則裡面然後我們知道說在這些標準裡面譬如說它超過60%了我們可能就會告訴大家這個是一個嚴重的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11092.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11112.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那如果不是的話呢,我們可能就先隱而不談,先不界定他是一個認知作戰,這或許是可能的一個方向。那另外剛剛部長也提到非常重要的一點就是,當今天國軍釋出訊息的時候,面對的人非常多。他有可能是要講給大眾聽的,有可能是要講給老共聽的,有可能是要講給上級聽的,也有可能是要講給國際社會聽的。但現在的狀況有時候呢,我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11116.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11130.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
都可能藉由部長的嘴裡去把各個必須要溝通的管道可能都是由部長講出來所以有時候認知作戰它不只是說我們今天是不是界定它是作戰的標準跟國人知道而已我們可能還要知道說什麼情況下我們是講給國人聽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11131.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11158.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
什麼時候是要講給對方聽的?什麼時候是講給國際社會聽的?這個如果也可以有一個準則讓我們知道的話,我相信這個在我們對國人的溝通上以及對國防部認定這件信心上面應該會有更加為的提升。這是我簡單的一個建議。是,我跟委員也報告,我剛有講我們國防部是一個國家有關於這種應變的一個成員,但我們自己部內也有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11159.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11169.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我們不能推動工作剛剛委員已經點出來了就很難叛變以外但我們有透過很多管道就不管調查局也好我們軍情局也好國安局也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11169.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11169.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11191.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11194.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
接下來我想要問的是院長,就是說我覺得這個問題是比較尷尬一點,因為我相信院長對衛福部等等會比較熟悉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11212.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11239.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
就是說呢有時候是解放軍發動了輿論戰的攻擊那他攻擊的對象不是國防部他最近攻擊了海巡嘛他今天攻擊的是衛福部或者攻擊的是我們的農業部製造大量的謠言那這時候就造成一個非常尷尬的狀況因為對方是一個獨裁的國家他的黨陣全部是全部是搓在一起的所以他今天雖然是解放軍發動的攻擊但他今天面對他攻擊的對象是衛福部製造跟衛福部相關的謠言那以這樣的狀況來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11240.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11263.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
是因為國防部出來告訴大家這邊有認知作戰還是要衛福部出來來跟大家講說這邊有一個認知作戰我想如果衛福部這邊有能力去分辨的時候呢那衛福部也可以來宣布有這樣的一個認知作戰的疑慮的考量那如果國防部這邊也是透過他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11264.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11266.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為以衛福部的角度來講,衛福部對於解放軍的手法說真的一定是沒有國防不了解。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11281.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11310.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
但是說真的國防部對於比如說像高端啊等等之類的一定也不會那麼的熟悉所以這也是為什麼呢就是我一直都覺得如果我們沒有一個跨部會認真地去面對這一個所謂認知作戰的機制的話會變得非常的危險所以這也是為什麼我在這邊有提到就是我們今天的這個標題叫做這個卓越中心那蔡總統其實在這一個面這個渤海這個三國的時候呢就有講到說因為其他的國家尤其是北約的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11311.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11339.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
他們在面對俄羅斯的混合作戰他可能有外交的可能有國防的可能有民生經濟的攻擊你每一個部會單獨面對就是被各個擊破所以他們希望有一個中心就是卓越中心大家一起去面對這個混合戰然後一起來做分析那蔡總統那時候有提到說台灣應該有一些單位能夠對接那因為台灣目前來講名稱最像的有一個在速發部然後還有像剛剛部長提到的有時候在偵查很多是國安局跟調查局 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11340.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11362.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
但其實國防部裡面還有一個政戰對這個部分其實也是非常的熟悉但你就會發現我們有點散在每一個地方沒有辦法認真的去應對他們有時候這個一個公事可能是三個小時六個小時如果我們沒有辦法馬上去應對的話會形成非常多的困擾所以我們才想說因為現在在520之前不可能馬上突然成立一個中心但是有沒有可能開始可以開啟 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11363.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11371.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這方面的討論,不管是從部長還是院長,因為畢竟其實我認為政戰還是有非常大的一個能量,如果能夠針對這些事情來討論的話,我們去面對認知作戰的速度應該可能會變得更快。我跟委員報告,委員這想法絕對對的,我們為了國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11380.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11380.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
﹚國防部委員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11409.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11416.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
謝謝陳委員博洋的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第二位吳委員中線質詢。麻煩請陳院長國防部備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11434.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11446.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
院長、部長,早安。 院長,您的那個社會流行病學書我拜讀很多次,真的獲益良多,謝謝院長。我在這邊有幾個問題想要請教,就是,院長, |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11453.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11480.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們知道就是依據憲法如果總統不能無法事事那就是由副總統代理那如果副總統也不行的話是由院長代理那我想請教一下院長如果我們今天呢執行到一半然後有突然這個國家這個警報簡訊大作那可能是飛彈的空襲警報那在這邊的話院長知道那個防空洞在哪裡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11482.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11508.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這裡的防空設施我不太記得,應該看這裡的有地下室的地方。立法院其實是有一些避難設施,比如說在青島會館、議場或中心大樓樓下都有。那我今天為什麼要提這個,因為畢竟兩岸現在比較兵兇戰危,那隨時現在又講求是斬首,他們的那個戰略方式是希望以斬首的方向來減少對平民的傷害。 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11509.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11531.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以啊院長在這裡其實我覺得我們也是隨時要有危機的意識那我們也是要知道一下這立法院哪個地方如果再發生一些緊急狀況的時候也能夠有地方可以去躲然後去避難那其實我覺得啦就是因為我自己擔任立委的時間不長但是我覺得這段時間呢我感覺是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11532.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11554.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
國家狀況好像越來越走向兵凶戰危。昨天CNN也有一個報導,它的大概意思就是說,以前認為台灣是一個最危險的地方,現在變得更危險。當然這個是國外媒體對我們的分析,對或不對我想院長以及部長心理一定都很清楚這整個狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11556.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11581.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那我在這邊還是想要奉勸一下就是目前的政府其實引起戰爭的往往都是領袖而不是人民那一個領袖其實最愚蠢的領袖就是把戰爭跟貧窮帶給下一代我想兩位長官一定都在這邊都能夠體會這一句話真正一個領導人能夠做出最愚蠢的事真的就是把戰爭跟貧窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11583.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11588.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
請問您知道我們司法法制委員會監督的行政院部會中哪一個部會跟國防部目前那個最密切? |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11602.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11606.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那我跟那個部長說明一下,其實跟法務部有蠻多的聯繫對吧?尤其是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11623.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11645.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
在102年2013年我們這個軍事審判法修正之後到103年也就是2014年其實已經把所有的人還有案件受刑人現在都是交給法務部在處理也就是說現在這個軍事審判已經變成是普通法院或是那個地檢署在處理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11648.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11662.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
現在這個狀況呢,軍事法院跟軍事法院檢察署現在大概都是處理一些刑事補償案件而已,就沒有像以前一樣會有一些訴訟啊,軍事法院一些訴訟的案件在進行。那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11664.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11689.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我想提一個東西就是說在這個狀況下在加重了普通法院這麼多工作量的情況下我們會不會發生一個狀況就是還沒有到戰爭爆發我們的內部就已經出了很多狀況部長您知道就是從今年二月底到現在發生了多少件這個軍人自殺的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11694.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11709.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
二月二十六日到三月七日已經發生了那麼多件那其實這個數字應該算是不低尤其是在2016年的時候國防部當時就有說我們要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11710.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11725.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
臨時提案就是不要發生這種治傷案件我們要放成一個重大的施政目標但是近年來這個治傷的案件就不停的攀升我想說部長應該可以很知道這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11727.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11746.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
不管發生怎麼樣,發生自殺啦,這種自殺案件,檢方就必須要去介入。就譬如說驗屍啦,或者是說我們去調查一下他到底是自殺還是他殺,或是背後有沒有一些狀況。那其實也無形的就增加了檢方非常多的工作量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11746.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11767.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那部長其實在之前有檢討這個自殺案件一直增加的時候我看到有一個報導就是部長有提到說這個問題是出在有一些人他的壓力抗壓性比較弱我跟部長說其實這個話比較不妥啦因為大家比較希望就是說我們檢討制度出了什麼問題而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11769.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11783.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
說去檢討這個自殺者他的行為哪裡出了狀況。那我想說您當初的這個說法可能全國的心理師、智商師他們可能也不是那麼認同。將來有機會也許是不是說能夠對這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11785.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11788.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
加以說明或是道歉或是收回之類的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11807.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11807.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11831.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11854.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
同樣的工作加在不同的人身上他有不同反應就代表什麼每個人抗壓性他個性是有所不同的這的確也是在這個個人因素當中之一環但並沒有完全歸來哎呀他就抗壓性不夠我部長才沒有講過這句話所以這認知狀態加進來吧他引用你這一段好像不得了了這一點人性都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11855.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11865.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
我們國防部一直強調了照顧官兵一家人沒有講說我認定你就錯現在這種事情發生以後我們公開到什麼地步我第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11866.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11870.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那我們再來提一下就是說我們剛有秀出有非常光是二月底到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11894.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11910.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
就非常多件嘛那我來提一個就是監察院啊他之前針對那個陸軍第8軍團203旅的班長劉姓夏是自殺的案件裡面他其實有提到我再念給大家聽齁就是近10年國際自殺案件中士官兵戰75% |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11912.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11935.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
這代表國軍基層出了狀況。國防部對於視察、察覺軍官、士官、士兵環境身心狀況轉換的危機評估顯有不足。編制的心理輔導官的編制面對軍中龐大的人數也無法負荷。再來就是說這些有關精神疾病的判斷跟診療應該是要由專業的精神科醫師進行協處。 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11939.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11959.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那國防部應該要引入這些資源。那部長我想請教一下監察院之前已經有做出這樣的調查的意旨了。那國防部到目前為止為什麼發生智商的這個比例還是頻頻上升?所以這個是當初監察院的報告沒有做好還是國防部沒有落實呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11960.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11984.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我首先跟委員報告,任何一項士官兵他們出了問題,領導幹部一定要負責,絕對不會脫開他個人的行為,不會。那我剛剛我也跟委員做了說明,這種事情一發生以後,我們會從多方面來考量。監察委員給我們調查結果,我們覺得予以尊重。 的確,國軍有很多地方沒有最好,但我們要不斷地求比較好或更好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11985.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12008.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
在這個是我要努力的至於防處方面我們基本上部隊裡面就有三個防線這防線不是一個口號喔他的幹部每天跟他相處在一道旁邊周邊這些人都是每天日夜相處的這些就第一道防線所以我們現在可能欠缺講說他對他關注的這個內容啊或者這個層次可能不夠這種他沒講什麼應該OK啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12009.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12028.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我就跟委員報告前陣子發生的憲兵的事情,那個發生的時候,旁邊的人還跟他打招呼,沒有任何事。部長,因為時間的關係,我想我知道部長的意思。那我想說,有關這個部分,有些系統性上面的問題,還是要麻煩部長能夠多用點力,因為每一個人都是家中的寶貝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12028.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12047.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那他送到部隊的當然是希望說能夠平平安安的把服役服完,希望說部長就這部分能夠再用點心。那再來我們看一下,很多自殺一定是源自於心理壓力,這個院長一定非常非常的清楚。那我們看一下國軍目前第一級這幾個狀況,什麼會符合國軍第一級的情況,這幾個狀況。 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12054.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12074.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
沒有,我沒有講這個符合,我要跟委員剛好說明一下,這個第一集是改變,不是今年這些狀況才改變的。我在161年,有些案件出來以後我就已經調整了。因為國防,這個戰備規定是我國防部的權責,所以我就調了。調了以後為什麼?因為現在的第一集, |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12075.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12076.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
有人無人有時候很難辨識啊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12104.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12131.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
因為現在的無人機也很大一台所以我要跟委員報告一下這個程序一定要走完所以我們為什麼打訊號彈要警告要辨識要去確認確認以後再喊話不管透過什麼活動我自己的朋友他在第一線他是跟我說因為這個第一級他們都搞不清楚定義是什麼他們也很怕做了什麼行為之後會不會被當作罪犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12131.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12156.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那到底他的作為符不符合國際法或者是這武裝衝突法的規範,他們都搞不清楚。 所以這一塊也要麻煩部長盡量在教育上面能夠落實,能夠讓第一線的官兵他們心裡不要有那麼大的壓力,因為他們現在的壓力除了軍中一些管教問題之外,他們也很擔心說到底我今天為了國家做了這個反擊動作到底合不合法,這是他們心裡一個很大的壓力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12157.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12171.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
那我這邊也是要麻煩部長這塊能夠稍微做一下那再來齁部長從2024年開始我們兵役就要延長為一年了嘛那依照我手中的數據今年會9100人那到4年後會到35000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12174.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12202.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那所以呢這一次這個這個國防部跟法務部有討論到軍人逃亡的這個問題那我們剛剛所提到的現在案子都要有普通法院以及地檢署管轄那將來這個一起延長到一年之後這個我想擔心的就是案件量一定會暴增部長您知不知道現在那個在處理案子的一審檢察官全國多少人知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12203.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12206.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
總共到去年底是1065人,這個還包括了公訴檢察官、執行科檢察官,也就是說不是每一個都在辦案子的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12219.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12238.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那在辦案子的檢察官將來要面對疫情延長到一年,到時候人力上面會不會有很大的問題,這個是我很擔心的。所以我希望一件事情就是說,當年我們把軍審判法修改,我們從現在再往當年去看,有點類似頭痛一頭腳痛一腳。 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12240.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12261.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以就把整個就丟給普通法院,但是我始終認為制度沒有問題,軍事審判沒有問題,問題是出在人。但是當時就是這樣把他整個就是處理掉了。那我有一個建議就是說,我希望因為現在的檢察官要面對國內的太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12261.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12269.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
事案案件像詐欺罪暴徵那警察官都負荷不了了那有關這個軍事的部分是不是也可以嚴密 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12270.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12297.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
看看有沒有可能把一些軍法的一些案件把它轉回去由軍事審判法來去追溯。譬如說像暴行犯上、抗命、洩漏機密或是一些影響社會重大的案件或是像有些酒駕毒品還是由軍事審判去處理不是什麼都丟給基層的檢察官。我跟兩位說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12298.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12312.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
現在基層第一審的檢察官以及法官其實都受不了因為我自己做過20年檢察官我很清楚現在的案件量不要再講裁判品質了人民不信任司法是剛剛好而已所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12313.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12333.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我們可以研擬一下,看能不能夠把這個轉回去由軍事審判來處理,再麻煩部長能夠處理好。是,我跟委員幾秒鐘我就跟您說出,這案子陸海空軍刑法的修正,跟這個軍人權益的管理的辦法,我們要對決一定理好,而且已經呈到行政院去,院議通過以後會經過大院來審判。 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12334.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12343.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那再來齁,最後就是說我希望就是我們也可以考量九三軍人節到底要不要來放假,或者是那個第一線戰鬥人員加薪的問題麻煩。謝謝吳委員真心的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會,我們上午質詢到此為止。 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12354.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12363.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案,就不進行臨時提案之處理,下午2時30分繼續開會,進行外交及國防組織質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
21612.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
21619.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
報告委員會,現在我們繼續開會,進行外交及國防之質詢。接下來請徐委員巧心發言、質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
21643.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
21661.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
院長好,我想有請我們陳建仁院長以及國防部邱部長。請陳院長國防部備詢。學員午安。午安。那我想先請教一下我們陳院長,最近呢晚上睡得怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
21663.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
21683.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我一向睡眠都很好。謝謝。一向睡眠都很好。我想最近大家都很關心我們的部會首長還有我們院長睡得好不好。主要是因為先前在質詢的過程當中邱國正部長有告訴我們兩岸相當的危險所以他晚上有的時候很煩惱會睡不著那想必這個陳建仁院長沒有這樣子的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
21683.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
21703.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
但我們今天要問的是CNN的著名的評論員他的意見他談到了說呢現在台灣已經是世界上最危險的地方現在變得更加危險那所以我們才會很好奇說陳建仁院長怎麼看待目前兩岸的情勢有感覺到CNN的評論員所說的變得更加危險嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
21705.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
21725.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
在COVID-19的時間曾經訪問過我,我也知道他很關心臺灣的安全,算是朋友。我想他最主要的呼籲就是希望我們臺灣要提高警覺,然後美國跟其他的盟友應該要來協助臺灣做很好的我們臺灣的國防自衛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
21735.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
21749.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
您說得很好但是呢我們想看到的是確實有很多的各種的問題比方說最近有一件呢跟國安有點疑慮相關的事情媒體剛才才披露Google Earth這一波呢台灣西部做了一個圖資的更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
21750.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
21778.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們可以看到更新之後那可以看到西側國防部這個過去協調模糊化的高斯軍事建築包含是國防部、空軍司令部、海軍司令部等等都相當的清楚包含整建中的北部龜山愛國者獄被鎮地、獄部屬M1、A2戰車的大崗營區、楊梅飛彈營區、苗栗西湖飛彈基地以及台中清泉崗新建萬建庫等等都在圖資上面可以顯示的相當清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
21778.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
21784.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我想問一下部長我們有沒有掌握這個狀況以及後續有沒有要進行任何的處置。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
21786.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
21813.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
國防安全是大家很關切課題,像現在科技那麼發達,不管是衛星徵兆等等,這些圖資都很容易顯露出來。但我有一個作為,通常我會跟這些單位,不管是Google這些單位,會有去跟他們做一個協議,有關這個機敏處所,他會把它給遮蓋掉。那目前這個西部圖資的部分我們會跟Google來協調,希望他們能夠隱藏起來保護我們的國防安全嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
21813.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
21818.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
除了這個圖資之外呢,這個我們都很關心剛剛院長說得很好,那但是呢我想蘇丹紅的問題到現在還沒有解決,那包含是已經流向軍方了 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
21836.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
21856.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
老共還沒有打過來,我們先開始擔心國軍的飲食。蘇丹紅議題當時在食安專報的時候就已經延燒了,那時候行政院還講得很大聲說蔡政府任內沒有系統性的食安問題,可現在蘇丹紅的議題都已經流到軍隊裡面了,陸軍的後勤指揮部也有買到了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
21856.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
21856.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
謝謝委員的很好的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
21878.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
21878.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
一個月內你們自己評估會不會太長? |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
21900.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
21928.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我跟委員報告,我們現在為什麼會要繼續再來做這個檢查呢?最主要是因為我們往前推6個月啦。往前推6個月。因為我們從12月開始就有逐批檢查。那我們往前推6個月的這一些,我們都做逐批檢查。所以現在我要求他們要加速的檢查以後,把前6個月的這一些萬一有…可是我們已經談好久了,那前6個月的檢查目前已經完成? |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
21929.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
21953.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
因為前6個月的這一個部分以前都是抽樣檢查叫抽批的檢查那我們現在要求他一個一個都檢查出來所以如果這樣檢查出來的話可能還是會有漏網之魚但是我跟委員報告因為我們現在已經掌握了這十幾家的這一個同一個家族的這一些公司所以你們會針對這6個月去做調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
21954.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
21977.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以我們實際上現在對這幾家就只要有這幾家的產品我們就會提前下架所以我們有把握這個下架的時間可能會更提前那對於近期包含是蘇丹紅他變成是各種不同的產品流入到市面以及軍隊裡面行政院有沒有考慮向國人表達建議好 這個蘇丹紅確實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
21979.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
22005.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這整個的早期的這個輸入的情況是用逐批的而且我們都是請他退貨而不是銷毀這個我們也發現我們這樣的做法需要有再精進所以我們現在就要求這一個逐批而且非法進口這個非法食品的這個廠商我們已經禁止他再進口那未來在邊境發現有這樣的情形我們也就會銷毀 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
22006.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
22025.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那我想問消費者的權益保障部分,院長消費者權益保障的部分,過去使用到蘇丹紅的,那相關的消費者權益保障包含是退貨啊等等的,我們行政院有什麼樣的要求跟處理?有的拿得去他說你沒有發票不讓他退貨? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
22025.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
22041.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我們這個部分會來要求相關的第二層第三層的這一些食品公司都要接受這個相關的退貨如果沒有的話他是有刑責的因為這些他們如果不下架他們是有刑責 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
22042.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
22063.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
國人跟我們軍方的弟兄表達歉意的這個部分目前行政院不考慮是嗎還是你們我的意思是說請問你們會考慮跟社會外界還有包含我們國人國軍弟兄因為過去整個檢查的過程當中或許不夠嚴謹所產生導致於系統性的蘇丹紅的問題跟國人致歉嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
22064.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
22088.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這個部分我們昨天就已經有表示我們在以往的這個對於這些違法廠商的篩檢確實沒有逐批檢查所以我們有所要求精進然後要改進我們確實需要改進院長認為要改進主席我想請那個主席院長我想要請那個外交部長我們先謝謝麻煩請外交部委員謝謝謝謝部長請外交部謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
22098.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
22124.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我想要請問幾個跟臺灣民主基金會相關的問題請問呢這個基金會按照我們的組織人事規章是由誰提名後任命執行長?依照規章的這個規定是由那個執行長是由董事長提名由董事會通過那董事長呢按照過去的慣例是由立法院長來擔任嗎?有沒有像民主基金會瞭解新國會之後新任的董事會什麼時候會召開改選? |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
22126.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
22152.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
有關於董事會召開的時間我們正在跟那個即將接任董事長的立法院院長正在協商當中。好那再來我們想要問的是台灣民主基金會是接受我們外交部的補助開放政黨按照比例申請的得票比例申請預算那這些申請有沒有相關的規範例如要要求哪一類型的活動才符合補助的原則我們有沒有審核的機制? |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
22153.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
22159.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
並沒有很仔細的規範,但是各個政黨他們都自己想要展開。 是由各個政黨認為說他們要進行民主外交的這個過程當中。 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
22176.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
22181.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
以這個為主以這個為主以這個為主那請問這些補助案補助給政黨的案子您有看過嗎?結案報告您在意嗎?以及就你的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
22204.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
22208.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
政黨向民主基金會申請的補助它是具有國家機密性的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
22209.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
22209.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
22239.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
22268.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
如果有國外的人要來臺灣看我們的選舉的狀況關選OK關選OK但是政黨拿這個經費補助其實去掛羊頭賣狗肉去辦選舉活動您認可嗎我覺得這要看那個他的報告的內容要看報告的內容對不對您先記得這句話那如果發生是政黨申請補助然後拿去做競選活動後來才發現這件事情我們有任何機制會追回嗎或是會懲罰嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
22270.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
22282.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
這個基金會的操作我不是很清楚到目前為止那個基金會是獨立運作的那我們也沒有看到這方面的資料獨立運作但是我們政府的錢不應該被拿去政黨作為選舉之用兩位同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
22282.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
22301.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
如果說委員有這方面的資料交給我們有這方面的資料我們就現在讓大家來看看這個第一個2023年的國務卿齊建穎核銷補助80萬賴清德當面力邀民進黨國務卿宣誓投入輔選9月投入空戰跟陸戰我們看下一張投影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
22302.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
22325.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
二零二三年青年對話行動和蕭補助一百萬元在新聞上面都直接講是在搶選票鎖定KOL20人超盤搶年輕選票賴清德青年對話行動三月開跑下一張投影片二零二三民主台灣客家峰會和蕭補助62萬元也是新聞下標直接寫搶攻客家選票再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22326.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22342.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
民主、和平、兵推贏100萬,裡面寫什麼呢?你們直接就講了,這個裡面的直接就講大型營隊兵推贏是要幹嘛呢?復選活動,下一頁。這些都是由執行長核定的對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22343.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22344.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
如果剛才那幾個案子像那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22364.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22367.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
國務卿就是民進黨的青年軍,然後他們來參加活動就是去服選的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22381.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22384.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
國務卿不是只不是輔選的團隊,國務卿是一個民進黨的一個團隊,然後是年輕人的團隊,他們有沒有參與輔選? |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22407.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22412.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
院長您覺得我們想要了解他們有沒有濫用我們的補助的公帑去做輔選之事所以我向對方要求提供結案報告您覺得他們應該要提供嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22430.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22449.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
跟委員報告一下就是民主基金會他是獨立運作的一個當然但是裡面用了公帑如果拿去選舉這就會產生很大的問題所以我們希望了解他有沒有濫用所以我們向你們去調閱了請問可不可以提供結案報告結果我們得到的答案是 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22450.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22464.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
因為各政黨計劃具機敏性,無法提供政黨所送的結案報告。你們覺得這樣合理嗎?如果我們沒有辦法看結案報告,我要怎麼知道他當時送的計劃進來有沒有符合補助要點? |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22465.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22469.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我剛跟委員報告過民主基金會是一個獨立運作的單位那在今年下半年在審核民主基金會預算的時候那我想這個委員可以提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22491.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22492.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我想這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22516.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22521.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
最後我問一下您覺得這樣子的政黨申請補助之後的結案報告他是涉及怎麼樣方面的機敏性不能讓立法委員來做調閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22541.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22563.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
這個應該由民主基金會那邊來回答沒有我是問你們覺得沒有那他不提供給我們那我問你們是你們認不認為這有機敏性嗎你們認不認為這涉及所謂的政黨或是國家的機密這是你們的看法這跟他無關吶剛剛跟委員報告那個民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的這個單位我聽過了我聽過了我問的是你覺得那個民主基金會有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22571.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22573.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
謝謝徐委員巧心的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第4位陳委員永康質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22605.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22634.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
有請陳院長、邱部長。麻煩請陳院長、國安部備詢。謝謝。陳委員午安。恭喜你當選立法委員。首先我感謝陳院長在本席就職之際贈送衛冕喉舌墨寶以珍,現在掛在辦公室。我回想8年前我在外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22635.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22635.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22663.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22685.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
這個軍旅生涯40餘年我也一直在懷抱追求和平的理念奉信以國家安全保衛人民力行國家安全作為終極目標而努力也看到院長近期長期被尋的辛勞我覺得在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22687.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22711.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
質詢過程中間您可以放鬆一些我會提出一些建言跟討論請您做參考因為本席的目前專注於國防外交事務的監督審查就議案全責他與性質的覺知融合國防外交作為國家安全的信念我們希望把這個信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22713.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22716.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
與價值觀用一個示儀的方法來討論付諸實踐。那麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22719.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22743.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
今年的2月14日的荊下水道發生三無漁船,因為海巡署的船艇在執法過程、追逐過程以及漁船的迴避過程,原來是企圖攔截、臨檢、登船,但是因為他做迴避,因此產生擦撞、翻船,最後產生兩位不幸犧牲漁民的結果。 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22745.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22765.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這個過程目前都在西部調查,我們不做這個預測也不做論述,但是各位你現在所看到的這個圖表就是我們花了很多的精神把這個整個的過程中間所有引述的法案以及它的背景資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22766.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22786.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那麼做出一個流程事實上我們用現在的科技已經幫他整合成一個資料庫所以希望未來的每一個單位並不是只是引述81年7月31日公布的兩岸條例那麼引述的第29條第32條 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22788.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22806.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
實際上在這個裡面我們總共列選了14項,並不包括1982年聯合國海洋法公約裡面所謂從3海里提升到12海里的領海基線以及每一個國家的領海權它的這個範圍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22808.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22823.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但是基於這個流程中間有過去動員勘亂法的這個終止那麼也有戰地政務的取消也有人民條例的增設修正所以它實際上是一環扣一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22824.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22851.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那麼過去我們的一般的這個政府的機制啊在回答問題的時候都是針對單獨一下引述某一個條例那麼我們現在做出這個流程過來未來結合資料庫所有的法案就掛在下面那麼在跨部會協調甚至解釋的時候可以做一個更清楚的論述就不至於產生部分的疏漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22851.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22852.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
﹚廣告﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22867.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22896.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那麼一、據國家安全法實例第25條啊﹖所謂的海岸管制區是由國防部會同內政部根據海防實務的需要就台灣地區海岸的海水低潮線以其高潮線算起500公尺以內以及近岸沙洲來劃定之但是這個文字實際上是非常的複雜那麼我們的海圖啊所有的校正是由海軍的大氣海洋局來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22897.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22919.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22919.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22920.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
﹚第11屆第1會期第4次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22938.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22938.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
：第11屆第1會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22955.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22955.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22970.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22991.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22992.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22992.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
司法部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
23019.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
23019.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
委員．完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
23039.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
23040.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
所跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
23070.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
23095.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
他是共同圖像是我們軍中很注重的因為這個我共同圖像運用啊就包含了陸海空三軍就同樣的狀況在這種共同圖像上看到的話是同樣的一個地點的不過有這種錯遙那現在要把這個各部位融在一道這是一個很好的一個做法因為畢竟我們這個國家安全啊不光是國防部單獨的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
23096.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
23112.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我也不把這個時間推給其他人,但最起碼各部會之間相互協調合作,共同來維護我們國家安全,這需要一個共通的點,而這個點也就當中也包含了共同圖像,也是一個很重要的東西。 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
23113.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
23140.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我們會按照這個狀況會跟各部會我們會建議不管是國安會或者院裡面我會建議要召開一個必要的一個協調會怎麼樣把我們國軍目前有的共同圖像的做法既然能夠保密又能夠運用很廣泛這個我覺得是將來很努力的要努力的一個方向但我們很樂見也期望可以達到國家安全大家共同維護的這個境地 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
23142.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
23160.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
謝謝委員真的很認真我學習了學了很多真的很感動也特別感謝邱部長在這上面的大力支持因為我了解我們現在目前的政府並沒有一個完整的國家安全戰略雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
23162.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
23170.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
美國在這個國家安全戰略上,每任總統就職都會提出。日本在2013年也提出了他的國家安全戰略,就是法治化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
23182.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
23207.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
我特別在這邊向各位解釋一下這個發展的流程是經過怎麼樣的路徑怎麼樣來收斂首先我們是要看全球環境影響力跟趨勢它包括了區域的威脅有盟的變質國際組織國際法律資訊安全氣候變遷能源短缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
23209.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
23210.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
國內影響勢力趨勢包括經濟情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
23226.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
23246.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
社會的需求我們官僚體系的結構政黨的形態資訊的安全能源的需求媒體輿論宗教文化人口結構環境保護國會的結構這兩個匯集起來通通影響我們國家安全戰略的制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
23247.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23276.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
但是因為沒有國家安全戰略的制定所以行政院在橫向協商有關執法單位有關國防單位甚至海圖甚至領港甚至是航圖那這個都是各司其職但是呢就像剛才邱部長講的並沒有能夠融合變成統一就是說大家有一個共同基準的概念在一個相同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23278.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23278.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23295.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23311.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
但是經濟政策、能源政策、資安政策、人口政策,它整個這個氣象融合起來會形塑國家安全戰略,它的目的是促進繁榮、確保民主、強化安全。 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23312.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23341.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因此在現階段在下任府接替之前那麼本席期許院長能夠朝這邊共同努力先朝這個方向推動那麼我把國家安全戰略它的一個施行方法在這邊向大家做一個說明跟報告我們現在因為沒有國家安全戰略所以在現況上產生了什麼呢就是跨部會在資源分配不均 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23343.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23370.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
協商比較困難策略執行不太容易法制不夠周全政策不容易同步那麼同時難以持續因為換這個官員換幕僚他沒有一個上級政策的指導很多東西就做了調整那麼我們預期的目標國家安全戰略的目標就是確保國家安全與兩岸的和平穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23371.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23392.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那麼我們如果制定國家安全戰略我們的行動重心在政治面是趨利避害在和平對等的前提下堅守民主自由的體制在經濟上是國際上也是互利互補在公平正義的條件下促進經貿與投資的成長在軍事上要強軍勝戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23398.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23413.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
也是備戰、能戰、止戰在國家安全的前提下控管風險解決爭端在社會上我們要鄰居共識在國防民生合一的前提下強固基建堅韌的民心 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23416.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23438.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那麼在這個執行的這個手段上面第一個是可承擔的前提下也就是說我們政府的複合下反映民眾的意志與決心跨部會協調這裡面還包括國際友邦及軍事這個友好同盟的關係打造我們國家和平發展的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23439.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23459.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那麼在可適用的前提下,平息當前與過去決策的落差,確認與國家安全有關的法案,組織與資源不足的地方以及相關的限制因素。我們目前有國家安全法,裡面的細則都有對國內的要求。 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23460.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23477.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
但是對於我們自己部會之間協調合作分攤的責任沒有明確的制定所以最後是在可信待前提下要設定預期的目標以及可資助的能力包括量能這個權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23480.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23497.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23497.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23526.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
透過院長的指導在橫向協調上給予各部會的資源也就是說責任的分攤跟有限的資源分配以及反映的時間它都是有極限的因此如果沒有一個完整的概念在協調過程中國際情勢、國內情勢、兩岸情勢它產生的變化有的時候我們的決策是跟不上所以這一點是需要大家共同的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23527.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23548.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那麼最後面一頁我顯示一個共同圖像這張圖各位可以看到包含東北亞朝鮮半島東海日本防空識別區台海防空識別區還有中國大陸在2013年11月23日他發布的東海防空識別區 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23550.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23566.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
中國大陸是國際民航組織的成員,所以他把這個防空識別區在國際的航圖上已經標註上去了。我們也希望國防部未來把這個東海防空識別區也能夠標註上去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23567.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23567.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23585.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23615.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23616.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23633.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
因此很多的定義要在這個法條裡面做略為說明我們前一陣子大家國內都關心503航線其實503是個航路它是有一定的寬度飛機南下北上它有一定的距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23633.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23633.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23660.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23660.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
﹚第11屆第4次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23684.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23704.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
黃岩島,我們又新做民主礁。最近並沒有看到我們政府在這上面表達我們的政策跟我們的立場。那麼尤其是在南邊的所謂的人愛礁,現在中共跟菲律賓這個衝突算是蠻大的。但是中國大陸現在就是運用灰色區塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23706.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23733.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
他用他的海上民兵以及他的所謂海上警察其實他的海警就是coast guard問題是他的海警並不是在一般的政策像政府像屬於非軍事單位他是屬於中央軍委會所以他利用灰色區塊消耗鄰近國家的有限的這個力量那這個是值得我們要注意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23734.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23748.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
由於這個圖塊在下一步各位看到我們的所有的國家安全是先由社會的堅韌、民心的安定、經濟的繁榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23749.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23768.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23769.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23769.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
臨時提案會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23794.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23794.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
謝謝委員 這個很完整而且很宏觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23818.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23842.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
嚴密的這樣的一個說明國家這個安全體系我覺得很學習很多那從這裡我也完全同意實際上一個國家的安定除了軍事的外交的兩岸的以外還要有社會的經濟的這個我完全同意那目前在國家安全的這個體制上是有國安會在做通盤的這個整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23842.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23867.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
但是行政院這邊也會來認真的參考委員所提的這些意見而且我們也會請同仁在國家安全體系的這個相關會議上把這麼好的很這個宏觀而且很細緻的這個建議在這個會議上討論那站在行政院的立場在還沒有這樣討論之前我們也會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23867.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23868.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
請部長簡單說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23881.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23906.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
報告委員,剛才那個委員講得很精闢,事實上我在這邊聽了以後歸納成兩個重點。第一個沒有錯,我們按照我們的大戰略延續下來講的話,一定要有國家戰略,才有軍事戰略,這下面一環。而軍事戰略又分成一個略速鬥技具,作戰區等等。我跟你講我們講的軍事術語一般人很難去了解,但我簡單的講, |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23907.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23923.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我們大學裡有一句話,物有本末,事有終始,之所先後則盡道矣。 有大戰略,國家戰略是大的,是主,然後它是先,要先有了以後,後續延伸出來。 所以我們現在目前聽來好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23925.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23948.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
還沒有一個投出來,事實上我們國家在國防政策或國家安全方面都有一個很清楚的敘述,就為了要防衛國家安全。要在軍事方面的話,我跟委員報告,我也相信講說我們略出鬥技具的概念,戰略、戰鬥、然後這個戰技、戰具等等,它由上向下是一個指導的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23949.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23978.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
要有這個戰略才會有戰術要有戰術才會有戰鬥但由下往上的是支持你想你沒有一個好的一個戰距你的戰績沒辦法發揮所以這個關係也很清楚但是概念有了以後所以跟各部會是今天協調我們一定會做一個我們該做哪一部分貴部應該要強調強化哪一個方面我想這樣的話可以把這個目標定的很明確各部會作業起來也很明快第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23979 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
24000.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
第二、剛剛委員講了很多句共同圖像,尤其東海防空識別區沒有錯,它都有一個來龍才會有這個去脈的。 那我們目前國軍在這個每個圖上面,東海識別區防空識別區有話傳,因為話傳我們才發覺,它跟日本跟韓國會有一些啊,可以重疊甚而是一行,就可以貼到的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
24001.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
24024.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
所以以至於造成東北亞跟東海這個地方甚至於西太平洋方面會有很多這個啊這個看格就這個原因那這要透過一個國際管道跟我們平常啊各部會這個努力大家共同圖像有了認知有了意念一致了國家以後作業相互啊要合作項目等等就很就很快明確我這跟委員處說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
24026.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
24053.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
最近美國蘭德公司2024發布的那個威脅, 裡面特別強調了一個共同圖像,COP,Common Operational Picture。那麼今天早晨本黨陳玉珍委員在問政提到金下水稻的時候也講到要有一個清晰的苗籍跟法條的引述。我想經由這個院長剛才的陳述以及邱部長的解釋, |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
24054.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
24076.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
我們今後在跨部會的協商、橫向協調上一定可以做得更為精進。那麼也感謝今天兩位給我的回應。我想我們共同努力,因為國家安全是需要整合全國的民心。在有限的資源、有限的時間反應下,我們要做出適當的決策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
24079.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
24104.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
時間有限,資源有限,大家共同努力。 也感謝兩位的回答,謝謝。謝謝陳委員永康的質詢。 也謝謝陳院長的悲訓。報告委員會,外交及國防組織,喔對不起,下面一位是第5號楊耀委員,他改以書面提出。 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
24105.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
24119.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。報告委員會外交及國防組織質詢已詢答完畢。我們現在休息10分鐘。休息之後我們進行經濟組織質詢。現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
24729.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
24743.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
報告委員會現在繼續開會進行經紀組之質詢。陳委員、俊宇之質詢以書面提出。請行政院以書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。現在我們請邱委員、鄭君質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
24765.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
24768.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我們有請我們陳院長麻煩請陳院長備選邱委員王恭喜你當選立委謝謝我想請問陳院長你知道我是哪裡的立法委員嗎苗栗苗栗謝謝院長你當過苗栗市市長嘛你對苗栗很有貢獻謝謝當然我們是出生於地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24794.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24819.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
有一些問題當然在這邊就請教我們院長那麼我們對於這個桃竹苗大細股的一個方案我想我們非常的關心那麼當然我看起來目前現在這個計畫是一個雛形那必須還有很多的這個計畫來支撐那麼我想請教院長什麼時候我們才會有一個具體的一個時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24820.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24822.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我順便問一下國發會,我看到今年編列了200億的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24848.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24860.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
兩百億的預算那我想我們具體的部分是哪些?這兩百億是用在哪裡?您是說苗栗的部分是不是?不是,就是整個桃竹苗大細股計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
24861.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
24882.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
他不只200億啦,他是整個現在的大方案他是一個上位計畫那下面有各個各部位他要執行的一些相關計畫跟預算那比如說交通的部分他有一些交通納到這裡面來以後那我們就是要管考他的一些相關進度啦那比如說他有一些已經綜合規劃已經過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
24885.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
24887.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我看到我們苗栗的產業園區規劃是145公頃是吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
24887.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
24889.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
是我想院長新竹跟桃園是多少比例是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
24916.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
24942.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
以目前來講因為現在就是說是這樣就是說我們園區的不管是科學園區或產業園區基本上是採取滾動式的部分那看有產業上的需求第二個是地方政府他如果盤點出來準備好了我們目前苗栗縣我們提出了這個我們大概預估有900公頃的這個產業用地那我看到我們總共的比例是1200公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
24943.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
24966.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
苗栗市苗栗縣只有145公頃,那我在這邊也希望我們的院長能夠在這個部分多加斟酌考量,讓我們苗栗能夠這個900公頃的土地能夠更有效的來運用。後續會跟苗栗縣政府比較積極的溝通,看看哪一個部分他真的準備好了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
24966.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
24967.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我希望我們行政院這邊能夠盡快因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
24996.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
24996.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
25013.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
25029.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
國發會我們這邊來協助希望我們苗栗能夠規劃更多的這樣一個土地讓我們一些產業能夠進駐來帶動苗栗的經濟好不好委員提到了後龍因為過去來講縣政府他有抱鞭想要做成這個產業園區嘛那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
25031.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
25039.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
您剛剛講到這個交通的部分,那現在交通的部分您怎麼處理?尤其是第二交流道還有我們這個楊梅道都有納入計畫嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
25059.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
25064.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
委員在check的時候我跟委員報告一下實際上在這個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的過程當中我們很希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
25080.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
25090.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
25090.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
25091.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
我再請問我們的72縣接61縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
25115.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
25116.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
因為今天我們交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
25144.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
25166.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
交通部長沒有來不過在這一個所有的整個大細股計畫當中我們當時的規劃當中就是有橫向的還有縱向的是變成一個網路那細節的部分也許在我們再請交通部長因為我看到我們整個計畫不論是在桃園或者是新竹 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
25167.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
25169.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我跟您報告就是說當時在整個規劃當中包括賴副總統的想法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
25190.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
25195.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
因為這樣目前我們看到的計畫當然都是集中在竹南頭份那對於苗栗縣整個來講那苗南的地方我也希望院長這邊能夠一併的考量進去苗南的發展也相關的重要因為南邊我們還有一個這個銅鑼科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
25216.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
25222.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
我剛才提到互相支援,像鯉魚潭的水也是從南部送到苗栗去,所以互相的有支援可以讓地方一定夠。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
25238.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
25258.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
不要虧待苗栗啦好不好,因為苗栗真的是為地方,苗栗有5個水庫,其實他限制非常多,發展也非常的困難。那我希望我們的院長還有我們的國會這邊能夠一併的來考量。謝謝。那另外我們第二個,第二題我們請我們的王美花部長。請經濟部備刑。 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
25267.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
25281.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
部長好,我今天看到新聞有點名,我們事務發部的部長唐鳳,交通部我們的王國才,經濟部長王美花,以及前農業部長陳吉仲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
25283.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
25284.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我每天就是努力把事情做好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
25303.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
25333.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那我想對我來說對台灣怎麼樣台灣的經濟做得更有韌性讓台灣在全世界越來越重要這個是我一直在思考的問題希望部長認真認真一點來執行所有的這個業務那當然不要變成我們賴清德總統的這個絆腳石可以嗎他不會啦他是最好的幫手啦可是在我本席看來我們看到4月份店家要調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
25334.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
25338.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那我覺得部長是覺得這個破口不夠大還是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
25339.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
25362.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
事實上一直以來這個國際的燃料成本的大幅上漲確實是造成台電的虧損那事實上在過去這一兩年台電已經吸收了非常多的一個成本現在主要就是說這樣的一個每一年我們當然優先都爭取政府的這個資金跟補助我看到了我也知道我們台電現在目前虧損是94%了 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
25371.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
25386.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那我看到我們這一次調升這個是330度以下的民生用電部分那我有推算過120度以下用電調漲那每個月大概是9塊錢那382萬戶我換算一下來一年多收了4億那121度到330度 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
25391.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
25397.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
這個用戶我們一樣調整了5%全台灣有526萬戶一年多收21.5億也就是說我們這一波調整電價大概是能夠為台電多收25億是這樣吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
25407.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
25433.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
所有的這個電價怎麼調漲的公式目前都在電價小組裡面工作區還在討論當中因為我算到這個數字不是很多我們為什麼要去做這件事情我就覺得很奇怪那相對於一些用電的大戶比如說一些我們高壓那個特高壓用電的一些大戶這些我們應該要針對這個部分或者我們以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
25434.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
25443.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
這個台電我們去年在花了900億來購買綠電這個部分你如果電價這邊部分來節省一點是不是更有效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
25444.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
25450.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
綠電的部分事實上現在已經逐漸的那個綠電原來賺購讓台電來賺購的部分目前其實已經都會讓他綠電直接賣給這個用戶因為臺灣的這個大用戶也需要綠電所以這個趨勢呢我們把綠電的產業做起來綠電的環境做起來但是之後就會慢慢去直接賣給這個企業不用由台電來收購來賺購那所以這個是綠電發展過程當一定要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25474.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25476.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
委員這個我來回答一下可以嗎?基本上我們這一次的電價調整當然要看電價審議委員會來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25503.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25514.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
那是呢我們也會給他提供一些意見那這個意見呢就是我們做很精緻的調整比如說這個產業呢在發達的過程當中那我們可能的加的都會比較多一點啊如果這個產業呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25515.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25542.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
目前還在蕭條的情況下就會加的少一點那民間的用電也是按照他的用電量會來做很精細的調整那以往在2022年2023年的時候我們調整8%11%的時候也都是用這樣很精緻的調整所以當時呢確實是物價的影響會下降啦我們現在很重點不是在於漲不漲電價這個事情其實我們更關心的是通膨的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25543.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25564.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
你知道漲一度電會增加多少通貨嗎?所以我們才會盡量的讓這個電價的調整不要像國外,國外都是一次就漲足然後政府再補貼那個漲足其實這是以前我覺得是民進黨執政以來一開始就開始動漲了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25567.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25570.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我跟委員報告一下為什麼現在後面這一段時間才調就是二、五戰爭以後全球的染料價錢大量的增加那這個大量增加才造成了台電3800億的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25590.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25608.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25609.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25609.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
現在還是要讓沈議員會來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25630.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25657.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
你盡快來準備好不好然後好的時候給本席資料不過委員您關心的這個不要引起通膨的問題然後呢一定要來幫助這個比較弱勢的這一些我們都會請這個審議委員會來考慮啦那我這樣講啦齁你把資料做好然後再給我好不好是不要像這次蘇丹紅的事情一樣出了事情再來解決我想這個是非常不負責任的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25659.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25679.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
當然我們也有懷疑,其實這是漲電價,當然我們陳院長算是看守內閣,那是不是在520之前我們要幫新政府排除路障,然後背鍋,然後下台,是不是有這個政治的考量?沒有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25690.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25718.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
謝謝秋原政軍的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。麻煩請行政部門秋原所索取的資料進赴秋原辦公室。接下來我們請登記第三位蘇委員清泉質詢。謝謝主席,我們請院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25718.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25719.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
麻煩再請陳院長備選主委我好高興你當選立委好幸好看到你在這裡這個是新科的老兵來院長你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25737.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25752.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我要請你講一講你對你的內閣的表現,你感覺如何?我感覺我都不敢跟你拍分手啦,但是我的內閣、我的同仁大家都很認真、很努力也過去,你看到我們的經濟成長也好,還是防疫的工作也好,還是農業的發展也好,委員你也很清楚,都有進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25766.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25781.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
所以我覺得比較實施大家都在做福國利民的事情,我很感謝他們。這樣啦,今天你每天都報很多,我們經濟部剛才我們的部長有講,但是有缺的問題,再來農的問題,我們的數位部,我們塘鳳網路作戰的問題,還有我們農業部,有很多問題,我們屏東都是農業縣,包括八十多個, |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25797.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25820.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
一、禁止使用、開放萊豬,然後還有一些是斑斑吃食斑,我現在等著不講吃斑,要票票,然後雞蛋的問題,我們交通部違規祭典的問題,不敢大家叫,所以這都是小破口、大破口,這件事就講極了,所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25823.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25823.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25842.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25842.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
農業部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25867.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25896.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
委員好你有沒有認同陳其中給你帶了很多很多的麻煩我想我們陳前部長本身在過去這七八年來其實他做了非常多過去三四十年來沒做的一些農業政策的一個改革好我現在開始講我們的屏東縣我們屏東縣的我們全台灣的農業人口包括農業漁業加起來差不多八十萬將近八十一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25897.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
25908.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
平東縣就佔了38萬,所以農業、漁業、養殖等等對平東縣來講是很重的,重中之重。我們的總統就是,現在總統就是我們平東榜首的人,但是我不覺得你們照顧我們平東的農機民,沒什麼在照顧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
25916.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
25916.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
我...我...我... |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
25945.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
25969.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
來拓展其他的更多的外銷。我們那個韓院長他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他也很認真,他 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
25972.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
25993.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
我跟全國議會前理事長黃一誠我們一邊還要試包括水質管理履歷QR code然後藥檢等等跟屏東科技大學這樣密切一座來一座去那我要跟部長報告就是對岸的海關總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
25995.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25995.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
現在! |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
26021.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
26030.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我們的珍珠班、我們的龍虎班本來一斤、一台斤都差不多一百塊、一百塊、一百塊、二百塊,最近已經升到一百塊、兩百塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
26032.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
26036.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我告訴你我用報告喔,那9萬的部分喔,大概,我們屏東市最主要的,大概面積大概有1400多公頃,啊那個產值過去齁,因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
26058.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
26075.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
中共的總統那陣緊急醫療其實包括委員一起協助我們農民改善那個養殖的這些環境然後我們也把這樣子一個環境跟中國那邊去提交一些相關的一個改進的措施可是他們都沒有回應我們雖然說他現在開7間 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
26078.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
26078.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
臨時報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
26100.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
26111.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
我們也剛好趁這個機會讓我們的國內的消費者很喜歡這樣的一個時班,特別是用切片的方式,在美國的方式我想我們的外銷的成長量都蠻高的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
26115.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
26119.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
我對酒吧我是有夠用心的,所以我是要在農業部,我們的那個月數要高一點, |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
26145.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
26160.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
當然會把這些加速把它擴增,我們最近有在...對,我們也一直在努力,對希望議會主要好好的來幫忙啦,不要...這一定會的...不要...不幫忙再這樣修理,修理等修理賽這比賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
26163.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
26180.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
委員我其實有兩部分,第一就是小台六的部分,我們怎樣來改善,這是很重要的。第二就是剛才說的,我們其實小國國的部分,你如果在外國的市場,他們大部分都吃魚排嘛,filet |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
26181.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
26185.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
回來的時候就是我們要有處理,當然你說要去哪裡,要去小樓是一個問題,但是你的魚片、魚排的部分,其實小樓算法國有怎麼接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
26196.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26224.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
沿洋養殖跟近海養殖佔我們的總餘貨量差不多3成而已,差不多3成,我們的鄉網養殖跟岸上養殖跟內陸養殖佔了70%左右,所以這個養殖對我們來講太重要,而且高頻尤其是屏東一定要加強輔導跟輔導,我希望院長跟部長你們要care這一塊。好,我們一定care,我們全力以赴啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26226.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26254.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
最近有一個我們萬巒百香果還有內埔那邊的百香果我最近都在處理我很高興我們的農養署也有在幫忙就是一個雜誌社還有一個營養師用你們110年的data然後就發表什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26255.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26263.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
百祥國的農藥殘餘是最多的,無所罷到,用110年,我問部長,你有110年的data,啊111、112他都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26268.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26275.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我向委員報告,就是說他們網路在報告的是提80年至81年的資料,當然我們也是馬上去查記起的資料,因為百香果那是連續採收型的,平均的農藥的殘留率大概是10%,殘留大概10%, |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
26288.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
26315.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
那我也知道說屏東因為我們百香果裡面全國大概面積差不多7000到9000公頃雖然說屏東只占5%差不多46公頃可是屏東的百香果非常特殊現在100公頃以上啦對現在占三成三成啦沒有到三成啦大概5%到6%我要跟你報告是院長我們額公尉人額弱的人我們都不希望屏東的那個賓郎 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
26316.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
26324.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
臨時會議轉做,臨時的臨時一班三千公斤左右,現在都在轉做,這樣百鄉國農委會、農業部要幫他做往事,往事根本都屢屢的,根本都在鋪農業,你把補貼的大家都燒掉,燒一千塊,現在剩四五百, |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
26340.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
26366.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
我跟委員報告,屏東的百香果非常特殊,因為他有做一些往事在這裡說的,所以他的品質跟比中部的好很多,所以我們一直努力的去做。第二點,我也跟委員報告,因為爆炸看來又一樣,因為那是過去的資料,所以我們馬上去抽檢。我沒有看你幫忙什麼的。對,我跟委員報告。沒有啊,沒有發表新聞啊。因為那時候沒有發表新聞,因為83年那時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
26369.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
26391.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我們馬上去抽,到10月1日都從屏東抽20支全部合格,那這個訊息明天就會有新聞稿,因為東西它是用80年的資料嘛,所以我沒辦法說馬上說屏東沒問題,所以我們去抽檢也確定了21個樣品裡面完全合格,表示說我們屏東的農民是非常重視這樣子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
26392.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
26393.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
他們是完全幾乎沒有用農藥嘛對不對部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
26417.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26442.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
他們有用一些有機脂肪,有部分的農藥,但是農藥一定都沒有在合格的範圍之內。所以我們檢測是為了... 都要靠背體啦。委員我們就要留念啦,來澄清啦。因為寒流啦,灘南風啦,整個邦山、邦寮,還有恆春那邊的荔枝、黃果,都所廢,都沒有補給。那你現在在災害認定的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26446.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26471.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
我希望部長,你們要從寬認定,一年搞一次。 我了解,我給委員報告。 都吃土你知道嗎,都是吃土的,不是吃飯的。 我給委員報告,因為我本身也是從事農業研究的。 我知道說,我們行政下的,第一我先說內資啦。 內資行政的部分,雖然說它同時對小選台風有稍微影響到,不過小選台風的認定期大概3個月啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26472.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26488.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我跟我們同仁研究,不一定要用小選颱風,它還有很多因素,對,特別是荔枝的生產會跟它的枝條的成熟度,跟它的溫度,所以我們會來處理。 我跟你說的就是說,它的認病要比較放寬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26493.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26510.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
不要讓他們學本無歸,第一個。第二個,就是說你們那個規定,如果幾%、幾%、幾%那個有不合時宜的希望調整一下,專家會議改一改,那個都是辦法而已,那個不是法律,那個都是根據這些細則所定出來的辦法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26512.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26528.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我們會天然災害救助方法,我們是在滾動檢討的。所以剛才說的,內地的保安不需要放寬,他就應該沒什麼問題,我們已經找到一些原因了。我再請王美娃部長。請經濟部備詢。部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26540.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26565.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
恆春半島要我為座民調。 恆春半島的人報案是七十六、七十七,他們是同意河山長演議的。 沒那麼嚴重,我在屏東我住這麼久了。 這個河山長每一次評比在全世界都是前五名的,我沒有記錯的話。 三十年來也沒有什麼重大的毛病。 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26566.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26593.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
那這些百姓他們希望的是他們的醫療、他們的回饋等等,能夠更好的保障。那這個河山長一年,我們給你賺了三、四百億,你要給他關掉嗎?你不笑嗎?美國現在,連邦給大家所有的內陸的那些活力石化電廠,他們希望直接就改成河電廠。 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26596.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26623.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
昨天那個報導,我後來再去看原文,寫得不精準,他講的是說那個已經沒有再用的既有的煤電廠,未來可以來思考。 配電設備不用蓋,就直接輸送出去。院長這個是很重要,現在COPP也認為他是OK的,所以不要,那你代親得嘛,代親得可以當作備用啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26624.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26626.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
謝謝蘇委員侵權的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來登記第4號,劉委員建國以 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26645.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26669.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
質詢以書面提出。請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報。在接下來我們請登記第5號張委員嘉峻質詢。院長我想請陳院長麻煩再請陳院長備詢。謝謝院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26676.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26696.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
首先我想感謝陳院長在2月27號那一天丁薛忠委員質詢的時候,承諾說願意開始來調漲公糧收購的價格。請問院長記得嗎?對,公糧收購的這一個部分,農業部有他的一貫的政策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26696.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26712.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那我們這個農業部現在是在研議過程當中那已經過了兩週了不曉得到目前為止有一個很重要的部分就是我們希望能夠提高農民的收益的這個角度沒錯沒錯因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26712.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26731.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
那一天之後呢其實農民都為之沸騰覺得說院長您是一個真正苦民所苦願意為農民思考的院長所以我在這裡也拜託農業部我們部長是不是能夠盡速的把這個方案提出來趕快來提高公糧收購的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26732.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26757.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
我想跟委員說明在經濟委員會的時候就是經濟委員會有個決議就是我們會在一個月之內就提高農民收益的部分做一個完整的規劃那我在這邊要跟委員說明就是提高農民的收益有非常非常多的方法我們會做一個完整的規劃到時候在一個月以後會跟我們的經濟委員會還有所有的委員報告是這一點當然我非常清楚因為那一天我質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26758.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26781.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
部長啊 這個我問院長可能院長比較不能夠理解但是呢我那一天問了部長說央苗一盤多少錢我還問了他說插秧費多少錢整地費多少錢我問他13年前的他不知道我覺得是情有可原但是呢我問他現在的他也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26782.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26787.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我不曉得說經過了上週之後,現在部長記得我上個禮拜問的,你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26787.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26804.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我知道,但是我要跟委員說明齁,就是我對於整體的,因為剛才那次委員說我不了解成本,但是針對各項的部分我不夠了解,但是對於整個的一個每公頃的生產成本,好像農藥的部分、肥料的部分、鴨苗的部分,我是知道的。 已經都飆漲了,都飆漲了,你看喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26806.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
26829.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
這個基本工資從2011年到2024年已經調漲了53%但是呢我們到座成本喔大大成長了2、30%到現在我們的工糧收購已經13年前13年前就是本席在這裡提出說一定要照顧農民那這一點呢我其實看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
26830.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
26851.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
也非常難過,我希望部長能夠把農民記在身上。 我想我們會做整體的規劃,不過我這邊先說明一下,雖然說他整體的生產成本有提高大概6到10%,這個我們有算出來,但是因為... 超過,超過。 沒有,這個我們是不同的比級的一個平均。 我沒有想要在這裡跟你辯論。 我知道,但是我要跟委員報告的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
26852.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
26862.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
因為從10年前到現在他的產量也有提高。對,他的產量也有提高。我讓你看一段影片好不好,院長也請您看一下這段影片。因為台北舊城 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
26877.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
26887.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
您知道這段影片訴求是給農民一點公平。您知道這個影片是誰拍的嗎?我不太清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
26889.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
26915.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
這一段影片是民進黨黨中央在2011年拍的影片他影片裡面說的這段影片真的非常符合現在的現況十幾年來都不調漲公糧收購的價格我想要請問院長你看了這段影片您的感受為何? |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
26916.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
26916.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
26934.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
26937.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
我只希望說聽院長這句話,我覺得您願意聽農民的心聲,就是我們想要在這裡為農民表達的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
26959.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
26979.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
因為呢,院長現在是行政機關的最高首長了。你知道我們真的需要你理解農民的辛苦。尤其呢,我也想再請問院長,你知道公糧收購價格這個制度已經實施了多少年嗎?他民國63年開始實施。他已經實施了50年。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
26980.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
26996.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
自從在上任之後第一次在議事廳發表說希望提高公糧收購價格之後呢非常多的網軍側翼一直在攻擊說提高收購公糧收購價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
26997.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
27025.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
是在圖利中間廠商。我就想問院長跟部長,難道這50年來我們的政府都在圖利中間廠商嗎?不過我想跟委員報告齁,當時的公糧的一個收購有當時的一個環境背景。那針對這麼多年來,我剛才說的,雖然說他的成本...你就問說有沒有嗎?有沒有圖利中間廠商?沒有,這是兩碼子的事。我就想要問你啊,你身為農委會的,你應該要知道,你部長你知不知道有沒有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
27026.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
27048.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
沒有,我想有沒有圖利中天商人,我們的公糧的收購價格的提高絕對不是為了商人。 是,沒錯,就是要照顧農民,所以我在這裡就是想要求部長,假設真的有圖利中天廠商,這也是你農業部的職責,要去把他揪出來,要讓這些真正的 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
27050.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
27073.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
這些補助可以去拿到農民的手上,是農民真正可以拿到,這才是你的職責。您不能夠因為這種虛幻的理由來阻擋公糧收購價格的提高啊。因為你們有看到說那個媒體報,不過基本上公糧收購提高從過去的經驗它的面積就會提高,面積提高以後產地的價格就會降低。 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
27075.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
27089.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我覺得這個是當初陳吉仲說他要增加收購的數量那才是錯好不好那才有可能說會增加面積所以呢就像剛剛蘇清絕委員講的他給你留了多少爛攤子你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
27090.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
27117.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
我最後呢,針對這個議題呢,現在是萬物齊仗,農民希望表達條藏公糧收購價格,這樣一點小小的心聲,難道不合理嗎?所以我在這裡特別的拜託院長,能夠再一次的正面承諾說,是不是能夠在交接以前做決定,讓我們上百萬的農民都能記得說是陳建仁院長照顧的農民。 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
27118.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
27120.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
謝謝院長。謝謝。剛剛我也想要再提醒一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
27143.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
27169.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
就是很多農民問我不管是老農不管是年輕的農民他們都問我說巴拉瓜到底要禁止到幾時這麼便宜又好用的農藥為什麼要禁止它呢我想跟委員說明巴拉瓜本身被禁因為它是一個劇毒農藥而且當時在農村的地區我完全理解你要說的理由但是我現在就是在跟你 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
27171.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
27181.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
我們有替代的藥劑轉達轉達農民的心聲包括老農年金是不是能夠調漲現在我們提案說要調到一萬二你們同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
27181.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
27209.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
我想整個老農年金的一個改變一定要配合其他的八大社福的一個基金的第一點第二點部分就是我們也針對了裡面部分的一些有關於門檻的部分我們也做了相當的建議部長我想時間有限我只是在這裡提醒你說這些都要列入考量為什麼這個工糧收購價格不漲老農年金不漲電價要漲所以我可不可以接下來問一下王美花部長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
27211.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
27238.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
請經濟部長備詢院長我看起來經濟部是已經決定這個政策非漲不可就是電價非漲不可我想要請問院長說您認為現在是調漲的好時機嗎確實現在這個時機我們是需要檢討所以才會讓電價審議委員會來認真的就電價的部分來討論那最主要的原因我剛才已經講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
27239.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
27246.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
其實我也很擔心說院長沒有接收到最新的訊息,其實在二、五戰爭的時候能源價格的確是大大的提漲了,但是到目前為止已經落到 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
27261.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
27261.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
委員那個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
27290.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
27291.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
這是現在的CPI |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
27317.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
27318.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
我跟委員報告我們在做去 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
27331.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
27350.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
此前兩年的電價調整的時候我們都有很做細緻的調整最主要的目的為什麼我們沒有像外國一樣一條就是60%啊80%就是因為不要讓物價大量調整所以到地方調漲所以我們的做法是很精細的相對於其他世界上其他的國家我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
27351.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
27352.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
我理解但是呢我還想問院長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
27369.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
27383.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
針對臺電虧損就好像說你說能源波動臺電虧損去年跟前年我們都分別已經編列預算增資1500億1000億還有特別預算補貼500億目前已經累積虧損3820億那我現在又從報紙上看到說王部長決定今年可能會再從這個超增稅收裡面再補貼1500億這個屬實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
27397.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
27415.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
他們有提出來﹚我們有申請但是院裡面現在還在試算﹚還在試算﹚可以補貼的部分。 不理解的地方。 這樣比較有力。 我沒有了解的地方就是說所有百姓也不理解說我們既然已經要撥一千五百億補貼台電了為什麼我們還要漲電價? |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
27415.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
27425.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
那個理由很簡單就是你看看他這個以這個燃料費的情況來看就虧損了三千八百億的今年啦跟一千八百億的五千多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
27426.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
27429.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
所以簡單講就是過往政府給台電的資金跟補貼的經費跟台電兩年的虧損來比,這虧損還是遠大於撥補的部分。 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
27448.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
27466.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
我簡單講一下就是說為什麼會有這個虧損是不是能源政策有錯這個是值得檢討但我今天的訴求很簡單就是希望民生用電330度以下的這個民生用電可以動長我也想要請問院長說不曉得這一次漲電價的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
27468.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
27468.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
謝謝你幫 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27485.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27507.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27507.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27509.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
這相關的信息都會在審議委員會裏面補貼? |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27523.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27550.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
院長介紹一下我們雲林縣的一個優勢因為大家現在都在討論說臺積電到底要去哪裡啊臺積電到底他的先進製程要落在哪一個城市那我也藉這個機會跟院長還有部長說一下我們雲林縣的優點就是我們有超過1200公頃的公有土地臺塘土地這是完全是希望說院長跟部長可以支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27551.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27578.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
另外就是說我們北有竹科南有南科可以形成產業鏈甚至因為1200公頃的土地它未來台積電如果落腳在雲林的話它未來20年30年的發展它有足夠的一個腹地甚至呢我們有兩所國立科技大學雲科大虎科大可以為台積電甚至其他的高科技產業來培育專業的人才之外呢我們有充沛的水資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27579.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27581.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
謝謝張委員加進的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第6號陳委員超明質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
27616.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
27623.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我們主席韓院長好。首先有請我們行政院陳院長,農業部的陳部長。麻煩請農業部部長備選。陳委員午安,恭喜你連任。謝謝謝謝。我也感謝陳院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
27635.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
27637.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
剛剛張家俊委員有談到公糧收購價格問題應該要上檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
27661.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
27687.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我也報告院長我現在下鄉的時候大家都在討論電價上漲電價上漲是會通膨還是通收你漲的大家沒有錢不敢弄花各種狀況會出來但是我碰到所有的農民那些朋友都跟我講叫我務必要反映公糧收購的價格要上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
27688.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
27702.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
那在上一屆我會提了好幾次好像你們都無動於衷但是啦早晚你要面臨這樣的問題所以工糧的收購計畫價格計畫收購23塊舞蹈收購20塊宜良收購18塊6這是在100人民國100人群調整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
27715.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
27734.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
那一百人以後改為二十六、二十三、二十一點六塊。那這一來的人誰調了上場?是吳敦義院長。因為陳水扁當總統的時候把這個什麼都動起來不敢上場。為了選舉耀眼什麼動就討好了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
27735.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
27750.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
現在我們蔡英文總統做了八年,這個也不敢漲,連電價都不敢漲,現在整個要一起漲,這個是嚴重的問題。但是剛剛張建均有講過了,我們的回量, |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
27751.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
27778.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我們的農藥我們的藥苗都在漲價那其實不但你在回答說你算得很精那我到鄉下跟農民在一起的時候天天都跟我們抱怨工糧收購的價格收穫起來一家都貪不盡能把碼所以現在電價上漲什麼物價上漲你工糧沒有上漲的時候農民會極大的感嘆 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
27780.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
27783.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
所謂今天跟陳院長,我看你會繼續繼續留著嗎?你現在要做什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
27788.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
27814.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
我們未來的賴清德當總統的時候不要這個問題丟給他。你們這一代把他收拾好一下。所以在你追政的院長之內我希望工人能調整。給農民安心的一個交代。現在他們光看電價每天的煩惱都沒有收入。晚上都睡不好覺。雖然有睡覺但是都睡不好覺。 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
27815.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
27830.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
你覺得有辦法答應,確確實實,成本真的在上漲,不管人工不管什麼,阿保證我問你幾十天了,你現在怎麼明明...我給委員報告齁,你剛才說的這齁,100年上漲了3塊以外還有2塊的一個乾燥費齁,結果我們去調查了從100年到112年,整個的農民收益並沒有實質的增加,這是第一個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
27845.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
27856.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
是因為工糧只佔整個稻穀的收購的三成其他的是民糧在收購的當你工糧收購提高的時候面積擴大民糧的收購價格往下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
27858.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
27878.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以我們現在正在規劃齁就是從整體的農民的收益的確保去做一個整體的規劃你都這樣搞公糧收購只有三成民間的價格比較好那三成的不是齁三成是奉公所法的勒大部分都是交公糧的勒我們現在在調查的就是說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
27880.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
27893.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
國企的成本有差不多6%至10%的上漲,可是產量也提高了。本來就沒什麼賺錢,你現在又不去,你做民間收購的就一天賺,賺了那一點點啦,這樣沒合理的啦,沒有合理的錢就有啦。我跟委員報告說,農業沒軍心齁,農民我們都內行的啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
27901.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
27927.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
我們要購買的不是稻農,我們的所有農民我們都要確保他的收入,包括稻農、包括種玉米的、種高粱的、種大豆的。 所以我們現在做整體的一個評估啦,就是確保農民收益。委員長、政府委員剛剛講了,這個問題確實要去研究,你不要說只有公用、公糧收購的話占了30%,那30%的人特別照顧,所以希望你調高一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
27928.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
27929.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
委員這樣啦,因為剛才就我們保證文豪答應這個張委員嘛齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
27934.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
27964.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
27965.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
27981.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
轉做農作物,你現在看這個表,11年都沒去,你應該要調整工糧,你要給他減少面積,你那個休耕轉做雜糧的時候你把他拿到館裡嘛,大家就不會去搶嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
27982.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
27987.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
你要兩個數字去平衡阿,這是要靠採訪,不是你這樣去做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
28013.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
28014.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
看這個表,農村發展期水土保持113年到116年 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
28040.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
28053.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
一共有432億,那個前瞻計畫,農村再生的計畫,農田水利市有農田水利跨域整合的計畫,114年度到117年度212億, |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
28058.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
28077.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我相信這是有內行的,農村再生我會摸了很久,你地方創生摸了很久,但是你國發會只有做計畫又沒有錢,你說要跟他們匡列,我這裡安若驚特別請你來,農村再生很重要, |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
28078.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
28095.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
地方創生也很重要,兩個要結合在一起,餅才會做到,你了解我講的意思嗎?我把一看就你們做,你們地方創生好像去幫演會,幫幫的,喔新娘的播種,一兩年就不見了。我講地方創生,我實際看到了啦,我都在執行你這計畫,所以我希望你國發會的地方, |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
28106.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
28130.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
創生跟你農業部的農村再生能把它結合起來,因為好舉的舉動在推展。我跟委員報告,其實農村再生其實我們很緊密的跟國安會所主導的地方是受做結合的,而且幾乎是每一季,國安會主委這邊...你講結合,我去跟你們拜託大家有時候互相推來推去,你說的好不好,我還要找你們兩個這樣好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
28131.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
28132.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
你國會會我特別請你起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
28145.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
28159.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
我就是要講地方創生跟農村再生,因為我摸了很久,我一稱二尺好不好?有做就要有幫忙起來,這樣結尾做完會久久長久有效益,這樣好不好?因為院長已經看過我們幾個地方創生案 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
28165.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
28178.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
你們說現在新的目標把每年浪費的60%流自大海的水要流自,我覺得各位不簡單。我還不曉得你們只有流自。您老家水要給農民來用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
28180.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
28195.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
28195.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
28197.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
我如果要求你你真的要做我以前都有拜託你們講好好只是做了一兩個給我看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
28225.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
28241.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
那我們通宵裡面本來禮儀壇水庫要引水進來的,它的丘陵地很多,它的山谷凹凹齊齊服務,那是最好帶水的地方。委員如果有什麼建議我們都可以齊心來接受,來一起討論。時間要沒了,謝謝你。再來我就請我們經濟部長黃國華會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
28257.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
28276.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
這個問題比較大,把你們這幾個頭叫來,本來我只要請你們的副院長,今天沒有看到哪,因為大溪谷有院長在就能來。我為什麼講苗栗縣值得更好投資,陶瓷指苗大溪谷去挖,因為我看到我問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
28278.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
28298.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我們的國安會主委的時候,你那時候很早到苗栗,去了一次是在我的地方,榮鳳漁港去檢查,你說你有去。不是啊,我是跟你一起去啊,我去過好多次。院長只有選舉的時候去了兩三次,還好沒有騙你宅死。這個大序股計畫我很早就提了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
28299.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
28325.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
我在110年10月6日部長的時候我就特別提了這個然後到了110年也有辦理會刊我這個地方就是我們當時的加工機長那個機長我請他們去陪我調查花了一天整整一天的時間做出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
28326.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
28334.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
但是今天你這個陶瓷子廟大事故計畫,我一定有理想看不出來,你不相信嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
28335.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
28361.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
你要曉得苗栗的位置是怎樣我們的投汶竹壇是靠近新竹科技的前期連結在一起我們南邊的縣裡是靠近台中的科學營區所以發展西部科技走廊苗栗縣裡要把它貫穿起來我現在看到你再來下一張你看桃園386公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
28365.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
28384.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
新竹新竹市322公頃,苗栗3個加起來290公頃,真正的要發展是我們在那一邊啦,討厭200多萬的人口,新竹縣新竹縣也滿了,新竹市也沒有地方了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
28385.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
28403.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
所以我特別的要求我們現在提出900公頃出來都在竹蘭科學園區的附近在新竹科學園區的附近我們這幾個地區從苗栗的竹蘭到新竹科學園區比新竹市道 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
28404.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
28411.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
拜託啦好好照顧我,你先不來我實在不敢回去,因為我堅持這條走廊我一定要完成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
28430.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
28438.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
這是我的信念,我一直在推,我對苗栗的發展非常重視,我會了解未來的發展苗栗縣都是最少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
28447.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
28475.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
沒有啦,那個科學園區150工刑是那一總統當時宣布這個大矽谷計畫是在苗栗宣布的勒,我不好意思他超虛偶的啦,人家做總統的啦委員非常重視苗栗的發展,那就像委員講的對,我們也跟著委員去看幾個地方啦吼,那現在苗栗的問題可能一定要地方政府跟中央來合作,因為他公有的地比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
28476.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
28479.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
所以他的第一個問題就是私有地這個怎麼解決? |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
28479.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
28492.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
我們私有地我們大概都有去了解過了,而且我們做過很明顯,你可以看到苗栗縣中東景縣長的魄力,他的思維,我自信他能完成,你了解我? |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
28494.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
28498 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
我會專程派你來苗栗考察一下,主委長我真的很感謝你,你後到那一次我看你每次看到我在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
28519.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
28536.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
你都不敢亂講話,都說陳昌明很無力,所謂民進黨不敢亂修理,我這一點特別感謝。但是我苗栗縣的發展,讓苗栗縣變得偉大,我現在把他扣一塊而已,這樣好不好?把我們轉到旗旗傑好不好?雖然是看不清楚,你以為我們在國情新聞的時候都把這個全部發表清楚好不好?可是我自己也沒有發表清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
28549.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
28568.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
謝謝陳委員超明的質詢,謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來登記第七位陳委員秀寶,質詢以書面提出。請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄刊登公報。在接下來我們請登記第八位馬委員文君質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
28578.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
28582.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
請陳院長請陳院長備詢院長午安今天又第二次見面 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
28594.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
28620.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
剛剛排到經濟的部分那在這裡我們還是要請教院長我們早上談到的部分還有下午其實都是跟我們民生非常相關的部分那就這個部分我想先請教針對農民農保的部分因為農保現在很多條件在限縮當然可能是為了很多假農民的問題這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
28622.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
28622.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我舉幾個例子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
28640.683 |
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28640.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
﹚國務委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
28659.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
28660.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
﹚一、三、四、五﹚ |
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| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
28683.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我們現在有很多以前可以保農保的縱數現在不可以是不是縱數基本上它本身是一個所謂的景觀樹木有沒有那個部分所以我們在縱數的部分是有一些條件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
28704.502 |
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28722.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
哪一些是有條件﹖像一般的林農的部分他是可以的但是有一些一般的那個原液景觀公司有沒有﹖他是公司的形態有沒有他去種然後他所僱用的人其實他只是在﹖桂花是算什麼是景觀還是哪一個桂花 |
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28724.263 |
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28750.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
貴花要看他沒有啦他本身如果是因為在做警官的時候有沒有他顧的人現在就是說那個公司以公司形態顧的人不是不是我說本身他就是種樹因為種樹跟你你有公司當然不是啊他一定是本身是農民他參與他是種樹因為你有一些你很難分得出來他到底是什麼比如說肉桂肉桂是警官還是可用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
28750.501 |
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28751.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
我了解我了解對對對 |
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28773.047 |
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28798.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
他已經繳了二、三十年的農保,你突然今天說不行,把他過去的全部把他取消掉,這是不合理的,這政府至少要有誠信原則,如果你在未來覺得說這個有一些是不適宜的,那你訂落日條款,你過去已經同意人家的,人家已經付了那麼久的,他以前都繳農保啊,那過去他沒有機會繳其他的保險,結果你政府說停就停。 |
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28799.572 |
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| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
這是非常不合理的,而且是嚴重的傷害到農民的權益。 這個部分部長是不是可以覺得這個部分是好的? |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28806.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28819.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
我想我基本上同意您的說法,就是說我們在做修改的時候,針對之前已經保農保的部分,我們的落日條件,我們會做一些排除的部分,我想我們會更嚴謹的去思考。 |
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28819.494 |
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28843.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
因為農業部一直是跟農民站在一起的,絕對不會輕易的...部長因為現在已經發生,他已經把人家停掉了,所以這個部分我們希望可以趕快跟各地的相關農會可以去討論好不好?因為你以後我們如果說要去做條件的把關,我覺得那都可以可是你讓投保的人自己很清楚的知道,那你過去我已經講了那麼多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28844.11 |
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28846.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
我們現在還要請教的是我們現在休耕政策是不是有做了一些調整? |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28868.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
基本上我們的休耕政策,因為其實一個好的一個土地的品質的維護,他絕對不要去連作,連作的話會讓土壤的土質,所以我們有一些休耕,但是也不能連續休耕,因為連續休耕也不好。所以現在我們的休耕本身是一休一種,這是一個是我們自農業部所推動的一個方向。 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28893.459 |
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28908.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
部長這個部分因為我們在好像去年還是今年才稍微又做了調整,它以前是好像4年選一次可以休耕的部分嘛,現在好像兩年就一次。 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
這個會造成什麼樣的一個影響就是農民其實我們現在我們的農業人口都是年紀非常大的所以其實你一旦要休耕他如果他他他也不能擺著通通不動他必須要種植其他的才可以拿休耕補助所以你要領這個補助的時候他必須要除一次草就是要還要翻土 |
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28932.442 |
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28953.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
這些都要花錢請人家做因為不可能是農民自己做現在不可能用人工所以這是一次的費用可是當他還要再一次種植的時候他要再花一次等於他比過去休耕的政策他多花一次的這樣的一個費用這個部分我想部長請回去請相關的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
對,我想跟委員說明齁,這可能有點誤解齁,剛才說的兩年一個休耕,那是針對我們的稻作四選三,因為兩年有四期作。 |
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28978.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
部長,我想可能不是宣導,他們很清楚,因為成本都是他們在付,就像剛剛講的,這是針對水稻的部分,那水稻過去,其實我們政策有調整,所以我相信部長知道這個意思。 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
所以對他們來說他們就是多了一次的成本可是剛剛聽到前面兩位的委員他們在提到的就是我們提高供糧收購的價格我們好像又沒有辦法做到因為剛剛說休耕這個他為什麼可以有休耕補助是因為如果符合我們的休耕的方式調整成這樣的方式我們才願意跟他收購 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
﹚廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
29074.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
29104.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
這個部分我們請農業部再做一些研議跟考量那希望可以不要在對農民增加負擔的情況之下應該要把我們的政策落實到照顧到農民是最好的你既然沒有你在現階段還沒有辦法調高他的價格的時候至少不要增加他的負擔謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
29125.501 |
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| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
那另外我們現在要談到的就是主計總署的資料顯示我們現在外使的費用月增率在2月的時候已經升到0.48%這是高於長期的平均漲幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
29143.701 |
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| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
綜合統計處的分析是因為他調漲的原因他分析的理由當然是近三年外食費他有三波的上漲第一個當然就是疫情在110年的時候在111年因為惡霧戰爭黃曉裕這些大宗物資也帶頭也漲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
那接下來就是112年因為缺蛋蛋價調高以後因為對於我們的所有的飲食習慣他蛋的用量非常高所以也帶動所有的外食的這些漲幅那下個月又要漲電價勢必也會帶動很多很多的漲幅所以在這裡我們剛剛在討論的時候我們辦公室的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
他們也收到小孩子帶回去的一個問卷調查學校的他們原來的餐費一餐可能50塊那現在有三個方案60塊或者兩個55塊的那要看家長同不同意是勢必要漲了那漲幅其實也是10%20%只是大家怎麼選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
那你如果挑55塊的他大概就是一個月或是牛奶大概就沒得喝或者是麵包沒得吃那你如果60塊的就是維持原來的可是他就是漲了10塊那在這些所有的不管在生活在外食在各方方面面其實都會漲價的情況之下我們所有的政策的推動難道一定是在這個節點嗎因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
29244.479 |
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29258.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
像我們看到很多現在的政府在推動新政策的時候通常也應該要把通膨的因素也要把它考量進去現在通膨的情況也非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
29259.207 |
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| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
那現在過去電價也調高了兩次如果是連2018年已經調了三次他從3%在後面的這兩年又調了19.4%其實再加上如果下個月又要調漲再加上通膨再加上很多的這些因素他其實造成的很多的漲價是不是人民可以負擔得起那你接下來其實你不只漲這些你不只漲這個 |
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| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
還有包括我們的高鐵還有包括我們的客運還有包括我們的掛號費現在這個像掛號費或餐食這個都是省不掉的你生病就一定要看醫生 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
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29317.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
﹚議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
29317.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
在這一部分的感受或者生活的調適上其實他要面臨的這些還包括薪資他長得很少甚至我們的實質的是負成長那就這些方面我們有什麼樣的 |
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29334.56 |
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| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
更深刻的考量,讓人民的感受可以不要那麼多,再加上過去這幾個月,因為我們剛剛是有做了一些事,之前有做了事實的調漲,就是很多人被開罰單,早上我也提過,所有的都在花錢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
那這個到底可以怎麼做讓人民的感受可以不要那麼強烈剝奪感這麼深因為大家都講不是漲到2萬點可是那個是一直獨秀只有台積電跟少數的幾支股票80%的股民其實是賠錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
談到這個電價的調整確實你剛才那個圖裡面可以看得到我們在最近調的電價 |
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| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
有調到8.4%調到11%這是剛好在COVID-19的時間也是在俄烏戰爭以後那全世界在這一段燃料大量增加的這一段期間調整的弧度都是在50、60甚至有加倍的在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
29412.93 |
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| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
﹚廣告 |
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| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
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| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
您的建議會考慮到民生的用電會考慮到工業的用電而且工業用電還會考慮到這個是在成長中的產業還是在在比較還沒有完全起 |
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| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
﹚廣告 |
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| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
這一部分我們還是 |
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| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
謝謝馬文、文君的質詢。也謝謝陳院長的備詢。報告院會本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢。謝謝陳院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下的決定。下次會議繼續進行經濟組織質詢。現在散會。謝謝。 |