| IVOD_ID |
157003 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/157003 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-19-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-18T10:27:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-18T10:36:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37ff27132e477e87943194351fbff9d8dc7cef15d9be6ba6c5cdff58eca86e5d94d4c3b9d427a4b55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:27:02 - 10:36:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金。(詢答)） |
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請農業部陳部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.576 |
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66.729 |
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就去推動這個工糧收購能夠調高。好,我們看這個這一次康瑞颱風造成義理鎮鹽層部落的房屋,整個房子你看被淹滿,表示這個土石流之多,非常的嚴重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.308 |
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93.922 |
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您看這個,這個比較高一點的也被淹埋了一半以上,一半以上。比較低的部分就整個一被淹埋了,這個舊的房子。所以它這個被淹埋得非常非常的嚴重。所以像這樣的一個情形,這個不曉得我們農業部有沒有去了解這個地方?有,我想我們這個部分,土著類的部分我們有去了解,而且有給予協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
95.983 |
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103.485 |
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因為委員有在關心,特別我們也欣賞看。我們後續再跟委員說明。另外就是在豐濱港口,這次也是崗位颱風造成土石。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
120.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.267 |
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發言到這個整個家戶他最主要啊是因為上的源頭這個排水溝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.465 |
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156.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
排水溝上面大石頭等於堵住造成土石從旁邊還好家戶沒有造成人員的傷亡所以這個部分是也請農業部 這個也有處理這個我想我們也有經費有跟公所那邊聯絡來做經費的一個協助 好謝謝你也把書面資料提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
158.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好我們現在談預算這個114年度的預算我是舉兩個案例我們就以這個農村發展及水土保持署作為案例你看我們那個整體性治山防災的預算其中這裡面提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個整個預算是45億多,其中投注在原住民族地區5億1000多萬,45億裡面有5億多投注在原住民族地區。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
205.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
233.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們看這個大規模崩塌及不安定土砂防撿災。這裡面投入在原住民族第7的有一億多的經費。這樣的一個處理、寫法到農業部或是水利所各或是水保署的相關機關可能不是很清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
235.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
260.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
過去一開始經濟部水利署對於那個自來水的無自來水的一個處理一開始他們也是用原住民族地區我後來建議他們要以原住民族部落為基礎後來他們才了解原住民族地區是什麼呢?譬如說整個花蓮縣都是原住民族地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
262.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
289.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
花蓮市是原住民族第7、吉安鄉是原住民族第7事實上原住民的人口、原住民的部落都集中在某個地方部落是不同的所以不能以原住民族第7作為一個範圍來去計算原住民相關的經費要以什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
290.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
319.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
要以原住民族基本法第二條要以部落是中央人民會所核定的部落所核定的部落作為一個來去計算或者是有涉及到譬如說這個涉及到家戶或個人為核心的也可以所以我們看這個農業部相關的這些預算包括主計單位也必須要去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
322.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
335.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
農田水利快意整合整體性防災加強水庫集水期治理計劃國有林治理五億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
358.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
農地重劃期基礎建設8100萬還有國庫補充到農田水利事業的基金3000多萬類似像這樣的農村再生建設及發展計畫農村三村綠色2.35億 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
362.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
381.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
農田水利設施6點多億這個都必須但我建議放在我們原住民部落更好所以我的建議是預算書的自用說明就把它改為原住民族部落這樣的話會更符合實際的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
382.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
401.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我跟委員報告改這個變成部落我絕對同意但是它不是重點重點是當不管是原住民部落或是因為整個現在那個土石流或大規模崩塌都在山區那山區的話不管它是不是屬於原住民部落我們會根據它的潛勢溪流本身的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
402.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
423.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
451.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
基本上啊,農業部的大部分會跟原住民族的部落會有關係了。但是不是全部。幾個例子,譬如說這個河仁、蘇花公路那個河仁到崇德這個之間,有一部分是我們的部落,有很大部分不是我們的部落。所以這個部分,你說全部要把它算進去也不太好。所以這個部分是一個跟那個農業部以及相關的屬做一個溝通。好,我們看這個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
454.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
476.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在海岸海岸的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
485.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
528.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我跟委員報告齁這個是發言縣政府在執行的案子那我想我們農業部也不認同用這種方式應該其他還有其他改善的更細緻的作為去清楚啦那這個部分我想我們會跟縣政府來討論不只是他們啦因為你們現在是屬地主義啊有的是你們嘛齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
529.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
548.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有的是縣政府有的是那個水利署有的是那個那個叫什麼東莞處所以這個部分一定要好好的去水利署可能比較不會因為他們也知道海岸的一個管理所以其他其他的機關就未必了解好不好好謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
389 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時27分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。 |
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主席：請農業部陳部長。 |
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陳部長駿季：委員好。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，公糧收購是立法院各黨團同意後所作成的決議，所以農業部應該去推動公糧收購價應該要予以調高。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我們看這一次康芮颱風造成玉里鎮源城部落的房屋被掩埋，表示土石流之多，非常的嚴重，比較高一點的房屋被掩埋了一半以上，比較低的、舊的房子就整個被掩埋了，所以被掩埋的情況非常非常嚴重，像這樣的一個情形，不曉得我們農業部有沒有去了解這個地方？ |
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陳部長駿季：有，對於土石流部分，我們有去了解，也有給予協助，因為委員有在關心，特別我們也現場看了。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，那就把相關後續的…… |
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陳部長駿季：我們後續再跟委員說明。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：後續的辦理方向提供書面資料好了。 |
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陳部長駿季：好。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：另外，豐濱港口部落這一次也因為康芮颱風造成的土石及泥流沖刷到整個家戶，最主要是因為源頭排水溝上面被大石頭整個堵住，造成土石從旁邊落下，還好沒有造成人員的傷亡，所以這個部分也請農業部…… |
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陳部長駿季：這個也有處理，這個我們有經費，也有跟公所聯絡，來做經費的協助。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好、好，謝謝你，也請把書面資料提供。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][1] |
好，我們現在來談預算，針對114年度的預算，我舉兩個案例，我們就以農村發展及水土保持署作為案例，你看我們「整體性治山防災」的預算，這裡面提到整個預算是四十五億多，其中投注在原住民族地區是五億一千多萬，45億裡面有五億多投入在原住民族地區；我們看「大規模崩塌及不安定土砂防減災」，這一項投入在原住民族地區的有1億，一億多的經費，這樣的處理、寫法，當然農業部或是水利署或是水保署的相關機關可能不是很清楚，過去經濟部水利署對於無自來水地區的處理，一開始他們也是用「原住民族地區」，我後來建議他們要以「原住民族部落」為基礎，後來他們才了解。 |
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「原住民族地區」是什麼呢？譬如整個花蓮縣都是原住民族地區，花蓮市是原住民族地區，吉安鄉是原住民族地區，事實上原住民的人口、原住民的部落都集中在某個地方，和部落是不同的，所以不能以「原住民族地區」作為一個範圍去計算原住民的相關經費。要以什麼呢？要以原住民族基本法第二條所定義的「部落」，就是中央原民會所核定的「部落」作為計算的範圍，或者是有涉及到譬如說家戶或個人為核心的也可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][3] |
我們看看農業部相關的這些預算，包括主計單位也必須要了解，像農田水利跨域整合計畫、整體性治山防災，還有加強水庫集水區治理計畫─國有林治理這一項有5億多，看起來很多，譬如說農地重劃區基礎建設升級計畫8,100萬，還有國庫撥充農田水利事業作業基金三千多萬，類似像這樣的還有農村再生建設及發展計畫、山村綠色經濟永續發展計畫等2.35億，還有農田水利設施工程等6.6億，當然我建議放在我們原住民部落更好，所以建議預算數的支用說明，把「原住民族地區」改為「原住民族部落」，這樣的話會更符合實際的需求。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，把「地區」改成「部落」，這個我絕對同意，但是它不是重點，重點是當不管是原住民部落或是……因為現在整個土石流或大規模的崩塌都在山區，山區的話，不管它是不是屬於原住民部落，我們會根據它的潛勢溪流本身的風險，跟不安定土砂的這些風險等級去做一些防範。未來我們在原民部落本身的投入，包括一些我們的設施、設備的話，我們針對原民部落的補助比例還會提高，所以我想原民部落相關的農業部分，我們一定會持續去支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：基本上農業部大部分的業務跟原住民族部落有關係…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳部長駿季：是。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：但不是全部。舉個例子，譬如蘇花公路和仁到崇德之間，有一部分是我們的部落，有很大部分不是我們的部落，這個部分你說全部要算進去也不太好，所以這個部分跟農業部以及相關的署做個溝通。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][1] |
我們看這一次的颱風，康芮颱風造成很多漂流木堆積在豐濱港口，那個怪手，我們的鄉親對環境的保護是很重視的，怪手把在海岸的礁岩都破壞了，因為整個怪手開進去。你們都限制不能用機具，對不對？結果怪手開進去，整個礁岩都被破壞了，我們的鄉親看了真的很……這是在我們花蓮豐濱港口的海祭場的現況。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，這是花蓮縣政府在執行的案子…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳部長駿季：我們農業部也不認同用這種方式，應該還有其他改善的、更細緻的作為去清除，這個部分我們會跟縣政府來討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不只是他們，因為你們現在採屬地主義，有的是你們，有的是縣政府，有的是水利署，有的是東管處，所以這個部分一定要好好的去處理。水利署可能比較不會，因為他們也知道海岸的管理，但是其他的機關就未必了解，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭天財委員，部長請回座。跟陳委員說明，剛剛已經有宣布要休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
現在休息6分鐘，必要時得延長2分鐘，現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][2] |
休息（10時36分） |
| gazette.blocks[20][3] |
繼續開會（10時44分） |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
主席：現在繼續開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][1] |
下一位質詢請陳超明委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
132 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-19-14 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
59 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-18 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
11310101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
11310101_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於農業部及所屬單位預算部分；二、審查114年度中央政府
總預算案附屬單位預算關於農業部主管，非營業部分：農業作業基金、農田水利事業作業基金、
農業特別收入基金及農民退休基金（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
11310101_00002 |