| IVOD_ID |
15684 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15684 |
| 日期 |
2024-03-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-03-04T08:30:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-03-04T13:26:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:55:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a685471ce9aeb73a155c99e01fa654b137933be8d109af184be45b1b39e9608fdb7f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:29 - 13:26:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
736.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
740.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
本集完 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1773.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1774.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長到了嗎?不會聯絡,趕快請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1839.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1839.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1890.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1896.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1916.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1924.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告委員會我們出席的委員已經達到法定人數現在開會那我們先請議事委員宣讀上次會議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1925.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1943.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次全體委員會議一事錄時間113年2月29日星期四九時七分至九時五十七分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員林月琴等15人主席王委員譽名報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1945.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1947.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
1.本院第11屆第1會期各委員會召集委員選舉時間及地點,業經提報本院第11屆第1會期第一次會議決定召案通過再案。2.立法院各委員會組織法第3條之4規定本會應致召集委員二人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1961.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1977.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
3.宣讀本會期本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項選舉第11屆第1會期本會召集委員本次會議以無記名單記法票選之在場委員推舉林委員月晴擔任發票員及唱票員廖委員韋翔擔任記票員及監票員選舉結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1980.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2002.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
出席委員15人．發出票數15張．有效票數15張．開票結果為．王委員育敏8票．黃委員秀芳6票．及劉委員建國1票．由王委員育敏及黃委員秀芳．當選本會期本會召集委員．宣讀完畢好,請問委員會．針對上次的會議議事錄．有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2004.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2019.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
如果沒有的話那我們議事錄確定那今天的議程是邀請行政院食安辦公室、衛福部部長、食品藥物管理署就食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討進行報告並備質詢那我想這個議題現在全國非常的關注因為蘇丹紅他這個從邊境入關之後現在連有名的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2034.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2043.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這一個海底撈火鍋店通通都受到波及我想影響國人的食安其實是非常重大的所以今天衛環委員會我特別安排這樣的一個專題我們希望可以深入的來探討這當中到底有哪一些的漏洞我們應該要補足現在我就介紹今天出席的委員還有列席的官員首先我們介紹的是蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2064.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2068.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
陳金輝委員盧憲一委員黃秀芳委員林月琴委員介紹今天出席的官員食安辦許輔主任衛福部薛瑞元部長食藥署吳秀美署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2091.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2114.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
護理及健康照護司蔡盈盈副司長醫事師郭威中專門委員中央健保署龐一鳴副署長還有疾管署陳淑芳檢認記證好我們謝謝今天列席的官員那接下來呢我們就要先請薛部長進行今天的報告時間5分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2123.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2133.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生本部奉貴委員會安排就食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討進行專案報告．並備質詢進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2142.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2166.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有關食安五環政策執行的狀況自從105年蔡總統就任推行食安五環政策本部持續就源頭控管、重建生產管理、加強查驗、加重惡意黑心廠商的責任以及全民監督食安這五大面向的執行分數如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2167.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2180.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第一,針對源頭控管、自力調合法規標準便與國際接軌,積極開發檢驗方法。針對食品風險程度較高的品項,在輸入前實施系統性查核,並透過輸入食品檢附輸出國官方衛生證明來把關。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2191.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2208.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
此外,應用食安大數據進行高風險食品分析．發掘高風險產品類別。第二,針對於重建生產管理．推動食品業者權登錄．強化業者自主管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2209.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2224.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
對於大宗物資或消費者關切的食品業者關鍵業別．要求食品業者應該訂定食品安全監測計畫．辦理強制性檢驗及建立追溯追蹤管理系統等． |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2226.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2243.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
針對加強茶園部分,致力於精進稽查量能,國內食品茶園量逐年增加,透過把關市售輸入食品及市售國產食品的抽驗合格率均達到97%以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2246.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2270.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是針對加重惡意黑心廠商的責任對於不法廠商刻以更重的法律及賠償責任另外,強化與檢警機關合作建立衛生機關與檢察機關的聯繫平台並促成訂定檢察機關查緝食品藥物犯罪案件執行方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2271.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2288.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
正對全民監督食安．設立單一的食安專線來接聽提高監獄獎金的合法比例另外利用多元管道向民眾宣導正確食安的觀念包括發布食品類的闢謠文章等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2289.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2306.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那對於蘇台辣椒粉非法添加蘇丹紅事件的處理那針對蘇台辣椒粉非法添加這個蘇丹紅的事件已經暫停受理違規的中國21家出口商及製造商輸入的查驗申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2308.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2314.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
並擴大抽驗檢驗蘇丹紅色素跟持續追蹤問題產品的下降問題。111年到112年,邊境抽中一共有143批辣椒粉來檢驗蘇丹色素,其中有9批不合格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2331.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2345.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
9批都依規定推運或消費,並沒有進入國內。112年5月間發現中國蔬菜的辣椒粉產品不合格率偏高,所以提高加強臭批查驗。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2347.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2367.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
為採這個加強足皮查驗的措施之後那還有這一類的產品仍然有不合格的情勢發生所以從112年12月11日予採這個百分之百的足皮查驗檢驗合格後使得輸入那到今年3月1號在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2369.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2378.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
後市場擴大抽驗,已經抽驗59批檢驗蘇丹色素,其中35批符合規定9批檢出蘇丹色素跟規定不符,還有15批在檢驗中 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2388.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2403.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
各地方政府、衛生局持續督導、查核、下游業者下架相關製品到113年3月1日一共下架及封存辣椒粉及其產品23,759.7公斤 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2409.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2422.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
當然,到今天為止,這個數字又往上攀升。地方衛生機關已經將3家的輸入業者及1家製造業者移送檢調來偵辦。從3月1日起,輸入食品無論在邊境或後市場, |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2427.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2453.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
被查或違反食安法15條第1項、第3款有毒或含有害人體健康的物質或衣物第7款、餐尾或假冒或第10款添加未經中央主管機關許可或添加有情勢者就依食安法3、4條所定立即停止相關業者、產品或產品輸入的查驗申請本部已經採取監禁措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2455.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2473.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
並強化風險疫情預判的功能．早發現問題．阻斷不法產品流入源頭．杜絕非法產品於境外．與針對蘇台辣椒粉非法添加蘇丹色素的事件．應採取堅定的措施．並強化風險預判的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2477.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2498.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
已及早發生問題,未來在第一時間阻斷非法產品於境外。本部會透過持續落實食安五環政策,精進食品各環節的監督管理措施。本部呈大院各委員和指教和監督在此靜置卸策。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2501.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2518.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
謝謝部長的報告有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答先做以下的宣告本會委員會詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘請問委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2522.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2547.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
10點半截止發言登記委員如有書面質詢請於三會前提出預期不受理10點半會休息5分鐘原則上11點半會處理臨時提案所以如果委員有臨時提案請盡早提出以利益事進行接下來我們就邀請登記第一位的陳昭之委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2556.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2585.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好請薛部長部長委員好10天前我在陳院長的食安報告當中有提到一直都沒有美豬查場的報告那當時您告訴我有去查場也說馬上會把資料提供給本席但是過了10天之後我現在連報告都還沒有看到請問到底衛福部有沒有針對這個美豬進行查場 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2586.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2608.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
有,那這個部分的話食藥署他們簽報公文應該是在這一兩天會到我桌上來那我這邊簽過的話就會上網了解,我再要提的是王必勝次長提到2022年9月他有赴美查豬肉但是到目前為止兩種報告我們都沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2611.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2617.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我相信基層的公務員他們就有如實的寫報告但是為什麼沒有辦法順利的上傳公告呢因為理論上我們要知道兩種報告第一個就是行政機關他的內部查場報告這個報告應該是要讓立法院或立法委員瞭解的那第二個是國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2633.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2654.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
公務員出國報告他們有義務把這個公告上網所以到目前為止第一個兩種報告都沒有出現拖延了相當時間在2022年已經一年半了我們都沒有看到任何一篇一篇美豬的茶場報告這是第一個那麼第二個部長我要請教的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2656.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2666.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在這個框框上您可以看到這個美牛茶場時間是2022年11月但是比這個更早發生的9月的美豬茶場11月的茶場報告出來了9月的茶場報告看不到中營部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2678.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2702.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
到底這個查美牛、美豬茶廠的報告到底是有什麼不可告人之處還有什麼難言之隱還是有哪一些不宜公告的地方嗎為什麼沒有不宜公告的地方但是11月的這個美牛茶廠報告都出來了但是美豬茶廠報告我氣盯都等不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2703.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2704.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我跟委員報告過了,我們這一兩天就會上網以後這個時間請好好掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2716.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2738.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那下一張是臺灣的罹癌人數我們來看看這個是國健署提供的癌登等的罹癌人數那罹癌常見的危險因子我想部長您身為醫師您大概了解有好幾項那我今天就鎖定在其中一項叫做暴露於特定的化學物質 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2740.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2755.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
部長徐醫師應該了解,癌症的發生原因可能很多,據我們目前的了解,但是您是否同意癌症的發生跟國人長期的飲食習慣是有相當程度的關聯?部長同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2757.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2767.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個關聯性是應該是有的啦,但是委員知道嘛,這癌症的發生的原因通常都是多為危險,對所以,飲食習慣所佔的比例跟個別的癌症之間的關係的話,它的權重還是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2778.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2781.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
蘇丹紅已經被國際癌症研究機構列為第三類致癌物毒物專家嚴宗海醫師也有提到蘇丹紅最大的危害就是致癌而且如果常常吃、經常吃還會傷及腎臟跟肝臟 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2807.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2825.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
部長我要強調的重點是蘇丹紅的代謝物當中呈入這篇的報告代謝物當中有好幾項是被列為第二類的致癌物經過代謝後變成第二類的致癌物也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2826.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2827.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
請問追查有多少蘇丹紅的辣椒粉被國人吃下肚子,您認為重不重要? |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2843.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2859.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這第三類的致癌物本身就是說從動物試驗或者其他的方面來看的話是有致癌的可能性但是對於人類的方面的這一個研究是沒有我剛剛提到了第三類的致癌物的定義就是說對動物 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2860.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2886.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
可能有出現這個致癌性但是對人類沒有但是我強調的吃下肚子以後經過代謝變成第二類第二類的意思就是對人類的致癌性是提高的是存在的有這個可能性部長我強調的是這一個致癌物本身有許多本來就是說它在人體室之內的這個代謝部長這個部分我是非常的了解但是它升級了所以我要強調說 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2887.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2903.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
追查國人到底吃下了多少量這個非常的重要因為證明說吃下以後的危險性更高這我們目前當然是在追查這個整個的進來的總量以及已經銷售出去的總量那我們回到這個新寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2907.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2935.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
新保的下游業者重疊性很高可見這個長期規則性的供應是存在的那我想了解的是為什麼這一份保新的下游業者有部分的公司他的名稱是被一半的部分的遮蔽就是為什麼衛福部對於下游廠商部分公開部分隱匿請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2937.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2956.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這個做法是在迴避什麼在迴避什麼跟委員報告這一個部分的話是這樣當我們是比如說我們從保興這邊去追查那他的下游廠商那下游廠商的話我們就去還需要到進入這個不是啊有些是全民啊有些是部分遮蔽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2959.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2982.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這些下游的廠商我們還是要去取樣然後再來做檢驗大概能夠確認說他的接收到的這些產品的確是含有蘇丹紅部長的意思是說他必然是還沒有確定嗎還沒有確定之前我們會用這樣的圈圈因為他會有更下游的廠商但是紅豆加粉的毒性已經知道了他也購買了同一批次啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2984.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2984.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那再再來是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3010.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3037.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在3月1號又增加了兩家業者那我想了解這兩家是否在去年被罰的21家中國出口商或製造商當中的名單之內是不是在這之內是在之內嗎是在之內那為什麼拖這麼久才對下游的廠商現在還在寫下游業者刻在調查中從12月到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3040.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3065.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
這個該委員報告中國那邊的21家是已經確定的但是這21家我瞭解你在這個23名當中3月1號從新寶倉庫再度收住3萬多公斤這個跟衛福部封存的量簡直是數十倍之高那為什麼到去年年中衛福部就知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3066.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3070.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
有含蘇丹紅辣椒粉進口到台灣你再半年來只有去海關阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3071.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3076.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那之前進來的量呢?之前進來的量,到底國人吃了多少?為什麼隱瞞不讓國人知道?在海關組黨,但之前進來的量呢?對,所以現在就是對於之前進來,因為之前不是100%抽批的時候我為什麼會一直追查這件事?因為我們的食安五環裡面就有清楚的食品雲系可以清查,為什麼不做呢?所以我們在意的不是在海關組黨,這個動作是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3099.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3109.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
但是海關之前過去進口的量有多少被國人吃下肚子吃下以後代謝的毒性還更高這個部分是非常重要好最後一張我知道現在食藥署已經把熱令有問題的食品全部下架那這個週末我也到幾個賣場去看就是說我確實看到沒有這樣的產品了但是但是網路上在網路平台上我們還看到還有這個購買的這個資料在上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3129.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3149.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
部長、署長如果要做食安的法官網路平台是法外之地嗎?是可以不受食安法的規範嗎?無論實體的店鋪還是網站的平台你不能只做半套啊網站平台仍然有這個未下架的毒辣粉的零食在出售啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3151.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3151.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
接下來我們請陳金輝委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3185.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3212.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席現場各位大家好我想邀請部長以及署長好部長署長請我們來一起討論大家知道臺灣其實經過統計我們有高達七成的人是外食族那是外食族的狀況下大家會對於這個食品的製造鏈其實比起其他國家是相當陌生的因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關是非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3213.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3241.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但剛剛部長有提到說您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚所以您覺得食安五環是哪一環目前問題最大呢其實就這個事件來講的話並沒有說源頭不清楚因為我們已經把21家的這個中國進口的廠商那已經禁止他進口了所以這現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽菸之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3243.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3245.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3264.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3279.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
目前的話,循線去追了59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3282.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3303.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3306.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3324.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3327.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3350.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的了解所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3354.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3376.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月大家注意這個時間1月9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3380.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3394.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3400.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3429.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3430.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3431.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3451.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3473.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表達我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3476.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3492.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零檢出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3494.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3510.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分座我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3512.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3523.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這當然還是要經過最後的審查是 所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3525.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3552.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會有專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3554.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3574.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的榮耀你大可以大大方方去做宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3575.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3575.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
昨天剛好我又在賣場 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3604.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3629.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
看到所有的海底撈都還在架上所以在這邊拿給大家展示一下其實到處都還買得到這個是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3630.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3644.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那現在你們會衛教我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3646.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3673.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
還提到就必須要接受民眾的退貨是 剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了就是對 拖了一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3674.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3689.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
請問這樣子的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3690.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3714.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號的這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3716.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3736.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
都可以隨時開始其實不需要20%再到50%再到逐批查驗你引用你本來的法規就可以了但後來居然說我們新措施會在3月1號上路我們不再逐漸調高抽驗比例以前的法規都可以適用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3737.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3738.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
對象是辣椒粉 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3754.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3780.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3781.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3785.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們希望這幾天的努力可以讓我們全國人民不用免於蘇丹紅的恐懼謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3816.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3819.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好,接下來我們請廖偉祥委員進行質詢。有請薛部長就備詢台。好,請部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3840.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3859.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
部長您好,去年5月22日到30日在日內瓦的第76屆世界衛生大會WHA的部分當時是由薛部長你帶領衛福部的官員組成世衛行動團去參加請教今年還是您帶團嗎?這我不確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3863.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3879.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
今年的世衛是在5月27的樣子那是在520之後所以我不確定所以慣例上都是有部長代團但是因為今年是涉及我們的新舊政府的這個交接所以這個很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3880.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3901.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
閣議員已經為了保住官位而動作不斷所以想要請教部長陳建仁院長已經表示跟蔡英文總統一起同進退不會留任所以想要請教部長您是否會爭取留任我不會去爭取好所以這個如果是所以代表是等於是您確定您跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3914.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3924.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
總之呢,我想要表達的是,事實上國人希望的是衛福部長是一位做事的部長,而不是來指揮做官的部長。那我相信,希望我們薛部長可以持續往這方向努力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3926.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3947.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這個兩週前我質詢陳建仁院長的時候我反映這個中央政府輕視食安像是行政院食安會報的執行長也就是薛部長您在我質詢的陳院長那天當天算起來已經有333天沒有親自參加開會那直到今天已經有343天沒有參加這個食安會報了 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3950.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3973.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我當時跟陳建仁院長提出行政院食安會報沒有依規定每3個月定期開會那當時您也是在旁邊長期缺席不過當時因為您感冒失聲沒有多做說明所以想要給您補充說明的機會不管是333天也好或是343天我想要請問是因為行政院其實沒有想要安排院長定期開會呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3974.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4000.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
還是因為實習太倉促讓你的執行長不得不缺席所以心裡覺得委屈?該會委員報告我之所以會請假沒有參加的話是因為到立法院的委員會一次是臨時會一次是專案的會議所以我必須要來這邊備選所以才跟行政院的食安匯報去做請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4002.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4023.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
是,但是還是沒有定期每3個月開一次?這個定期的開會的時間,那我們是報給行政院,但是行政院還是必須要看院長的時程來訂的所以訂了之後的話,那如果臨時立法院這邊委員會必須要有出席的話,我就不得不請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4024.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4050.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以重點是我想要表達的是第一個當然沒有定期開會代表第二個你們常常缺席所以代表對於這個食安匯報的不在乎我想也不能這樣講說不在乎如果說大院能夠下一個決議說如果遇到食安匯報那衛福部長可以請假不來立法院備選那我們也樂意接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4051.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4067.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我覺得但是重點不是您有沒有出席不過沒關係我現在想要問說如果沒有意外的話你在卸任前還是會以執行長的身份來陪陳院長主持任內最後一次行政院的食安會報請問有安排好日期了嗎這我請那個行政院這邊來好 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4073.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4100.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
跟委員說明我們前一次的開會是在去年的10月份那這個原定在1月份會開會那那個時候因為種種原因可能跟選舉跟這個那我們現在正在簽報因為最近的這個西部特羅跟那個蘇丹紅我們從頭換題目針對是感謝你反正我下一個結論就是是還沒有排好日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4101.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4129.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那希望你們盡快排那你們到時候會討論哪些題目包含現在工業用的添加物混入食品體系的老問題例如這次蘇丹紅事件是不是也會列為這個檢討改進的事項是,我們預計這一個會排進去是,好那有請我們行政院食安辦的徐副主任是,喂,委員好謝謝這個薛部長您是這個行政院食安匯報的執行長喔那 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4130.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4151.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
食安匯報不僅早行政院食安辦公室6年就先成立那連這個食安辦公室的官網也自己介紹自己的功能與願景的內容中都說行政院食安匯報是有法律的設置基礎而食安辦公室只是在政策的督導與執行而已那徐主任我想要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4153.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4167.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
實驗室有沒有污染這個問題或是實驗室有沒有問題是政策的督導跟執行嗎?那徐主任你代表行政院在沒有任何科學證據下卻打臉慰福部這不就是政治黑手干擾專業嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4169.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4193.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
徐主任我覺得從這個蘇丹紅這一次這種工業用的添加物混入食品體系這種才是真正的督導就是政策督導與執行也就是你行政院要跨部會協調應該發揮的角色與功能請問這次蘇丹紅事件你行政院有沒有發揮政策督導與執行我們事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4196.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4206.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
先從後面開始回來講蘇丹紅的部分事實上我們有從2月20號之後相當多的措施在包含在食安專報23號我們擴大的查驗剛部長有提到說21家的我們回溯總共抽 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4213.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4213.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
您剛剛有提到說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4231.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4257.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
專家會議跟打臉那個部長其實沒有這個我們就是以專業看看看到什麼該怎麼樣的時候然後來參與並沒有所謂您剛剛講到說政策指導或怎麼樣我們從來沒有這樣的一個處理該怎麼處理就怎麼處理首先因為食藥署長跟我們部長當初也都說這個沒有問題不過我想這一頁翻過去了我想要直接討論的接續回來的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4259.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4285.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這次驗出蘇丹紅的事件今年1月30日就驗出有蘇丹紅這批貨那這個進展到上週我們流入市面有更大擴大的風波那我從任何人都可以上網查到的邊境檢驗不符合食品資訊查詢系統查到從2024年1月30日回溯過去整整12個月光是辣椒粉在邊境就驗出蘇丹紅的案例有11例11件次數難道還不夠高嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4290.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4295.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
一月底爆出這個流入市面的進口辣椒粉被驗出蘇丹紅而且還不是一個案件而是一天有兩件 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4317.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4328.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
只是剛好兩批流入這個市面的食品都是致癌蘇丹紅辣椒粉合計有28903公斤喔不好意思主席我們再這個多加兩分鐘那 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4331.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4349.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這兩件案子的數量都還用偷機用單一事件來模糊就好像是疫情的時候把確診的黑數校正回歸一樣現在是黑心案件數都還要校正回歸嗎我想只要食安五環有做到位你一定可以回答這批合計28903公斤的致癌蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4353.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4379.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
辣椒粉請問至今下架回收、查扣還有未流入市面的有幾公斤?流入市面的又有幾公斤?你可否知道這一區區一小瓶的胡椒粉一包零食如果用違法致癌蘇丹紅的這個辣椒粉也不過就是幾毫克的用量整整28903公斤的流向請問何以至今沒有公開?這豈不是食安五環的破功嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4381.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4402.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
請問部長要到什麼樣的氾濫程度才會真正的緊迫丁人好好的為人民把關我們的食品安全目前我們就是在緊迫丁人所以所有的這些不合格的這個廠商所進來的這一些辣椒粉的話我們全部去做後市場的精查那一共查了59批 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4404.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4410.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
其中有42批是合格的那11批是不合格的那還有6批還在檢驗中 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4412.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4436.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
謝謝部長那部長我直接跳到因為時間有限最後一題食藥署系統中可以查到這兩年以來12件含有致癌蘇丹紅的辣椒食品原料總重量我幫你算了一下其實總共有10萬8178公斤可是對比今天我們專案報告第7頁中所說你剛剛一直提到的總共9件只有5萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4438.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4458.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
五萬五千兩百七十五公斤的辣椒粉被驗出蘇丹紅我認為這衛福部在避重就輕因為所有辣椒食品當中有碰到蘇丹紅的總共有十萬多公斤辣椒食品並不只是辣椒粉但是衛福部卻在這個報告裡面這個報告明明寫的是蘇丹紅事件處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4460.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4477.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
卻置之不提蘇丹紅的辣椒食品有108,178公斤這實在是很扯所以換句話說蘇丹紅辣椒食品跟政府保證未流入市面的蘇丹紅辣椒粉兩者之間還差有52,903公斤的蘇丹紅辣椒食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4480.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4499.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
是沒有被衛福部交代清楚流向的。我想要請教部長這之間5萬多公斤的蘇丹紅的辣椒食品中目前在哪裡?有多少公斤確定流入市面查不到?又有多少公斤是被追回來的?你承不承認食安五環有破工並且因此要跟國人道歉? |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4501.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4518.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這個所謂的五萬多公斤未流入市面是在邊境就被擋住了那所以我們現在在查的就是後市場當時沒有百分之百的一個抽菸的那可能就會有跑進來那我們循著這個我們的追蹤追溯系統正在查 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4519.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4546.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
那把這一些已經進來的那我們就逐批的再做一次檢驗所以這是我剛剛跟跟您報告的59批那目前的話有問題的這11批的話我們還會往下再去查所以換句話說就是有5萬多公斤目前還在追查中還沒有查出來沒有沒有沒有那麼多了沒有那麼多以前沒有那麼多好那我們可不可以要求部長在一個禮拜之內趕快把這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4547.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4570.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
差異的這些有問題的食品或是這個差異的數額提出報告給本席好那這檢驗中還有6批嘛這6批的檢驗結果出來之後我們會提供給這個委員好謝謝主席好謝謝謝謝部長好我們謝謝廖偉祥委員的質詢謝謝部長接下來我們請林月琴委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4581.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4585.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
有請我們的薛部長和我們的食藥署的署長好 請部長跟署長委員好部長跟署長好接下來我們看食安五環事實上是在我們政府105年6月提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4603.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4630.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
為了事實上是人民要去做把關的一個動作來下一頁那可是本次的蘇丹紅事件呢事實上非常考驗這件事我們的食安五環的成效那部長這次的事件我們可不可以這樣理解也就是說蘇丹紅至中國入境那逃過第一環的源頭管控到第五環的時候才被全民監督的食安機制揪出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4633.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4638.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
如果事實上是到第五環的話那在此本席肯定第五環的把關機制讓漏網之魚不漏結但源頭管理更重要下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4658.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4658.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4679.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4696.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
接到在2月7號接獲雲林縣的衛生局的通知有民眾陳情緊接著2月20號開始啟動有一連串的動作那請問部長2月7號接獲通知20號開始動作你覺得這個速度夠不夠迅速 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4697.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4705.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這一個部分的話其實是在2月20之前我們已經就是擋住了未來的這21家的廠商不讓他繼續來進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4712.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4714.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以我緊接著就要問報告中提到衛福部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4740.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4741.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
請問一下各級你的判斷標準是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4762.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4776.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
跟委員報告,其實這個茶宴的一直這樣子升級是因為茶宴出來有不合格但是這不合格不是只有蘇丹是主要還是大部分是農藥的不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4777.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4805.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
過去我們在邊境查驗這些產品那有這種農藥的不合格的話我們的處理的方式大約就是這樣子只是到後來發現說蘇丹紅的因為加強抽屁嘛那比例就增加卻發現說蘇丹紅驗出來的比例也跟著增加甚至那比例還超過這個抽屁比例的增加所以我們這個focus在移轉到特別是在蘇丹紅上面因為這個是不准檢出的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4806.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4830.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
你報告也提到接下來要強化風險的預警分析,針對高違規跟高關注的產品資訊,還有高風險的廠商特定對象來做名單做預判。那作為風險管控參考,所以請問一下判斷的標準是什麼?是不是特定國家出境的食品跟原料都會列入? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4832.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4853.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這個當然也不排除作為一個風險警示的一個判斷的依據之一當然主要是這風險判斷就是要看風險風險的高低風險高低一般來講就是說它發生的頻率是有多高第二個就是說它所造成的危害有多嚴重大部分是用這兩個作為主要的判斷依據當然從這兩個主要的判斷依據來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4857.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4858.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4884.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4888.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
當食安事件發生的時候民眾事實上是自為恐慌 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4889.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4915.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
尤其在境內接獲證違反通報的時候勢必我們的媒體會高度關注引發民眾恐慌可是也是假消息流竄可是光靠衛福部的特定發布的一些新聞稿是不夠的因為民眾要知道我現在買的食物甚至我家的食物是不是這些食品是不是夠安全那當然最需要的就是要有一個即時性的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4916.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4942.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那當然我覺得食藥署一定會回答我說有啊我們有食品查核跟檢驗資訊平台可是不好用為什麼呢因為針對今天的主題叫做蘇丹紅事件本席做了一個查詢結果查不資料所以到底是更新的問題還是因為規則的問題所以我很疑惑那民眾也是所以請問署長為何在平台上找不到蘇丹紅事件的一些資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4945.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4965.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們這個平台事實上是針對的品項就是做相關的一個品項然後做檢驗之後的一個結果會做登錄不過這個地方這裡委員是輸入的是蘇丹紅是比較不像是我們平常登錄的一個模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4967.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4993.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個部分我跟委員報告一下其實這個資訊平台原先最主要的目的是供我們各地的衛生局還跟業者之間的一個可以來做查詢當初設計並沒有主要是針對民眾所以在裡面有一些品項什麼這些的編號或者所使用的名稱的話跟民間所知道的是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4994.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5013.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那這個部分的話我們可以來再進一步來規劃我們來找經費那把這個再來做一些我建議齁就是如果是規則問題齁因為有些廠還沒有辦法登錄的話是不是建議平台頁面上增加兩個連結一個是食品安全的即時新聞讓民眾查的時候可以瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5013.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5037.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
再來就是食品安全的相關闢謠的網頁那下一頁不好意思主席再給我一些時間那前面講說事實上是第五環我們的全民把關所以接避者非常的重要的確確實食品安全衛生管理法裡邊第43條有規定也就是檢舉人資訊要保密那在56條之一也用發放獎金來鼓勵檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5037.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5038.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5060.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5087.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
如何確保我們的接避者的資訊不洩漏還有對於故意洩漏的你的處罰是什麼對於過失的洩漏的你的處罰又是什麼這份報告這一個公務人員對於這些我們已經訂有說必須要保密的那你無故把它洩漏的話就會違反這個刑法的洩密罪刑法的洩密罪有故意有過失 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5088.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5096.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
本席認為臺灣食品安全的法制竟然完備但是政府的螺絲不能鬆懈特別是中國利用各種手段在製造臺灣內部的危機的時候企圖影響我們的士氣所以政府應該更謹慎應對所以這一波食安問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5117.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5125.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
請政府部門趕快處理,來安心。以上,謝謝。好,謝謝。謝謝委員。好,我們謝謝林月琴委員的質詢。謝謝部長。接下來我們請圖全級委員進行質詢。好,謝謝。好,謝謝趙偉。那請我們部長跟署長。好,請部長跟署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5150.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5156.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
委員好部長、署長、召委我們大家好那全集今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5167.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5194.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5195.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5210.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5214.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5236.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5238.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5255.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5255.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5277.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鑫企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5279.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5301.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
請部長回答的確啦因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以50%的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊這個我們在當時並不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5302.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5324.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5328.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5344.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資源我相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5347.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5360.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
過去一年,就是說112年度的時候,那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件,那其他大概都是農藥不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5361.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5361.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
陳建成議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5392.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5415.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5416.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5433.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5434.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5447.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就知情而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5450.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5464.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5467.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5487.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5488.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5504.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5506.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5533.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5534.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5561.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5561.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5582.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5585.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5594.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安會報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5600.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5601.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5631.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5652.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做經過一些比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5653.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5673.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5675.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5689.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5690.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5718.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5718.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5740.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要我呼籲真的要好好的為我們國民的健康好好的來把關那針對蘇丹紅還有食安的問題希望我們衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5744.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5762.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
還有食藥署針對這些問題希望好好的檢討改善以及後續萬一有因為蘇丹紅造成這個健康的問題我們一定要訂立一個良好的補救措施好謝謝好謝謝滕委員那繼續我們謝謝部長繼續我們請王一鳴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5773.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5773.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5783.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5789.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
部長好我想今天本席安排有關於蘇丹紅這個食安事件的一個檢討主要就是看到這次的事件確確實實就是一個系統性的食安問題從邊境長驅直入進到臺灣之後然後因為它是原料型的食品長驅直入直接擴散到每一個下游 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5808.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5832.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
現在包括這個零食夏蕙仙還有包括連這個這個咖哩粉還有就是這個知名的海底撈火鍋店通通都中標還有我們的一些咖哩粉有部分的食品還輸出到國外所以這一次的這個事情不容小覷因為查到目前為止剛剛部長你也說還在查 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5835.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5857.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
還沒有結束所以這次食安風暴本期看起來其實是大的那我認為這次食安風暴會這麼大第一個就是我們的邊境沒有守好他就是從邊境闖進來的我問一下部長事實上你們的報告已經提到了在去年5月就發現了第一起蘇丹紅但是當時你們做了什麼去年5月你們發現的時候做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5861.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5880.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
就開始把這個抽批的比例調整那原來進口的這家廠商你有去做加強針對這個進口原料廠的一個查驗或者是加研他的措施嗎?剛剛你有回答21批當中現在發現的在去年5月有同一家是哪一家? |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5881.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5882.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那結果你們做了什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5900.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5914.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
因為我們大概不太可能跑到中國去對於這一個原料廠去做查核所以當然就是針對的是這一個我們的進口廠商來做加強抽屁的一個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5915.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5929.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為我覺得在去年你們發現第一起這個蘇丹紅事件的時候你們應該就要有所示警那看起來去年你們僅針對從20%到50%這個就是不夠的所以你看你如果現在往回頭看你是到3月1號才宣布說一驗到有問題就全面禁止輸入 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5939.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5940.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
本席要講的是你剛剛一直在提到說高風險那我要問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5958.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5977.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
到什麼樣的程度才叫做高風險如果以過去蘇丹紅他就已經是大家違反偏家的一個工業原料的話為什麼去年沒有一開始就針對這樣子採取一個更嚴格的措施那你所謂的高風險要到什麼程度才叫高風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5978.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5978.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
本席要求這一類 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5999.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5999.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
致詢問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6017.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6018.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
所以像蘇丹紅色我們就會把它列進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6038.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6051.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
本席要求另外一個我發現是你們的查驗人力根本也不足啦坦白講你們在報告裡面的110年就告訴大家說你們邊境人要增加21人這個麻煩署長看一下你們說要增加這個21人結果呢你們到目前為止5年只增加一個人我不知道問題出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6063.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6064.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
正式人力確實是如果有機會也希望可以增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6089.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6111.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
從110年到現在 我覺得這個行政院也太不重視了吧我們還成立食安辦 那個徐副主任你們食安辦沒有用力爭取嗎我們現在從蘇丹紅事件發現我們的邊境查驗是多麼重要的事情每一位委員都要求要加強提高這個抽驗比例結果你的人力五年來只增加一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6112.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6125.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那你怎麼增加你的抽驗比例徐副主任你代表行政院為什麼不能給衛福部這個邊境查驗的人力這個對外說說得很好聽要增加21名結果只有增加一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6131.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6144.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
本席要求一定要補足人力要不然你讓第一線的查驗人員他怎麼辦每一個人都要求查驗的比例增加然後他加班加到爆肝結果也達不到啊因為人就是不足啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6145.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6170.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這部分的話第一個正式人力我們會再來跟院這邊來爭取那博偉也跟委員報告非正式人力在110年我們是80人那113年我們預計會達到97人但是他屬於非正式人力這一定是要正式人力因為國人對於食安的要求這些查驗人力不可以是用臨時的人你絕對是要正式的編制這是本席的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6171.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6183.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
另外這次事件也凸顯兩岸在食安的合作上面有沒有通報機制的重要性本席手上有這個零食這個是對岸的零食現在很多小朋友也很喜歡吃那這一次從我們進口的辣椒粉發現有這麼嚴重的添加蘇丹紅的問題那表示說對岸他們在原料生產上面有些東西是有疑慮的我請問包括這次的三合制藥我們查到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6200.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6201.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
在包圍我們是有對對岸來做通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6224.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6250.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有通報是不是?那目前包括高雄那三家也是山河製藥嗎?還是另外一家?他工廠是不一樣,但是好像地址是一樣都是山河製藥?是另外一家?中國那邊是另外一家不過好像是地址是一樣同一個地址不同的名稱嗎?台灣的部份 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6253.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6277.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對,那大陸,我現在要知道是說從大陸進來的,這個這幾批,你們說21批有問題的,是只有三合製藥這一家有問題,還是還有其他家的這個製造廠也是有問題?進口商是包括三合啦,也包括加廣,還有金站吧,有這幾家啦,這是進口商啦,但是那個製造商是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6281.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6303.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
山河是那個製造商啦,台灣的話是...所以大陸有幾家製造商有問題,我在問的是這個大概是目前看到的是主要是兩家,一家叫Kevin,一家叫山河好,那本席還要再追問是目前為止還有沒有中國大陸進口的其他廠商就是說不同的製造廠一樣是辣椒粉進到台灣的,還有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6305.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6324.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
有21家的製造廠目前有21家那個被我們禁掉全部有42家你禁掉21家合格的是有21家那不合格的有21家都是各21家那這合格的21家你們是百分之百抽院嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6325.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6344.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
對,到後面都是...所有辣椒粉的進口,你們都已經是百分之百抽菸?我們後市場也繼續都在抽菸當中,但其實我們這百分之百抽菸不是只有針對中國,是...所有的世界各國,只要是辣椒粉品項,你們現在都是百分之百的抽菸嗎?對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6346.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6361.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好 那另外一個本席要問的是食品雲我們的食品雲現在的登錄到底是怎麼回事這個本席辦公室去查現在查到的比如說像這個蝦味仙他們提供的資訊都是2017年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6363.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6365.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
109年監察院說食品雲只有2%的業者建立追蹤追溯系統那請問現在是幾%?到目前為止登錄了幾%? |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6388.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6390.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
109年監察院指出來只有兩趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6408.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6423.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那你們目前掌握到底已經登錄了幾趴?而且他們的資訊都沒有更新喔這個是當時我們在討論食安問題食品雲也花了非常多錢來建置那後續的整個管理我覺得這個部分衛福部真的要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6425.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6446.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
這部分的話目前登記上去的是有一萬多家一萬多家的廠商其實食品營這是有兩個部分一個就是說我們還是會持續鼓勵這個廠商進來登記那他的這個訊息的更新我們可能也必須要定期要去這一個去檢核 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6449.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6478.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
另外的話就是有一些對一般民眾的那這應該要有一個從這邊這一個能夠出來是比較user friendly的對 你們現在這個部分都做得不好所以一般消費者要去查詢其實很難用那這個部分本是要求你們針對食品與你的登錄要提高他的那個登錄的這個加速另外從消費者端他查詢也應該是要讓他們更方便來查詢而且要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6479.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6479.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
接續我們由邱正軍委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6509.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6511.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們一樣有請我們的薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6517.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6540.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
委員好部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6542.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6555.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6559.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6580.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6583.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6608.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我這樣講啦 因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛 對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6611.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6639.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6639.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6667.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會退役了。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是沒有驗到。所以說,這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6669.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6680.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
如果這樣回退回去我認為我們進到國內的至少有20公斤的這個蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6685.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6705.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
可能沒有辦法不是用這樣去回推啦好那我這樣講啦那我們現在在追我們後來在驗的這個補驗的這些東西那我們到現在上次剛剛部長講59批嘛那29號那天我們的林副署長他還說是63批到底是59還是63 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6708.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6709.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
目前應該是59批那在之前的呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6715.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6744.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6745.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6752.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是當然是我們現在努力在做的就是這件事情那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6754.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6778.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6780.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6809.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
因為這樣子啦我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6810.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6828.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6829.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6850.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6852.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6871.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
衛福部在知道這件事情的時候,我們已經請他暫停作業以及停止販售,這個沒有問題,但是為什麼我們要求他公司停產,卻沒有要求他停售可疑的產品呢?停產,下架就是不能賽售了問題他還在賣啊,像這個怎麼辦呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6874.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6902.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
它是不同批或者是說不同的產品如果是這樣的邏輯的話,那我們的民眾食品的這個食安的這個保障在哪裡呢?但是不同批,它已經是經過檢查是合格的,你要把它禁掉可能也必須要有這個法律上的意義那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6903.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6928.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6929.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6951.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保興公司的時候發現保興公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保興公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6953.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6972.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們衛福部他只是退回因為這一個部分屬於廠商的自主自主檢驗本席建議好不好本席建議我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面這我們來研議我想這個才是這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6976.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6976.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以應該沒有對立 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6995.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7015.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在三地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7020.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7036.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
最後再請問部長苗栗縣每萬人口的醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7038.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7067.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多已經流標4次那我們當然看到我們公產款已經提到1.7億提高1.7億到11.3億那這部分我謝謝部長的協助那麼當然我們更希望就是說我們的放射腫瘤中心擴建工程那目前已經流標10次了那可能也是因為設計發包的時候的金額不足的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7067.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7074.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那我這邊也再請這個部長協助可以嗎?現在有增加現在增加了?增加多少?應該是到28萬28萬? |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7080.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7107.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會再另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7109.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7109.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7148.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7149.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7179.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7179.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7441.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7443.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
好 請大家入座 我們繼續開會接下來我們請黃秀芳委員進行質詢謝謝主席 我們請部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7472.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7489.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
部長好,今天食品安全、蘇丹色素我想請教部長,我們看到衛福部在針對中國疏路的辣椒粉,其實在去年5月份的時候你們也有針對辣椒粉 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7491.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7491.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7509.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7512.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
昨年12月抽驗比率達到百分之百從20%到百分之百是因為邊境抽驗結果不合格率越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7534.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7537.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這個部分去年從5月開始到12月的時候100%的竹皮查驗這中間其實是我們發現說它的違規的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7559.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7581.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
是居高不下,你抽更多並不會說比例下降,而是比例還一樣,甚至更高所以我們才逐步的一直加強抽批不過要在這邊再度說明,就是在當時抽批所謂的不合格的話是包括農藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7583.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7611.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
是包括農藥,並不是只有針對蘇丹紅去做那我想請教部長,就是說我看到就是說你們在12月份已經是抽驗比率是達到百分之百那到隔年113年的1月底就是有人就是地方政府有收到檢舉那像這樣就是說我們既然都已經抽驗這個比率都已經到百分之百那為什麼沒有在邊境就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7612.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7635.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
就是已經發現這樣的一個問題然後是由地方政府這邊來發現所以我再解釋一次就是說在還沒有百分之百之前就有進來所以那個後市場查到是在那個之前百分之一百的話就如果有不合格就已經擋掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7637.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7657.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我想請教部長我們看到昨天的新聞在下有廠商知名的火鍋店也有蘇丹色素那你們有沒有去回推比如說這些進口商他到底把這個蘇丹色素就是後市場是賣給誰我覺得應該是要由食藥署這邊應該要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7660.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7683.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
應該要去勾肌,讓更多人知道,要不然這個可能也許這個知名的火鍋店他自己本身也不知道說這個是不可以用的這部分的話就是我們尋現在往下追查,那第一個環節的部分就是說像保鑫這幾家公司,他們進來賣到哪裡去的話,在我們的系統裡面是可以查得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7684.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7703.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以這一個部分是比較沒有問題但是第二層的這些廠商因為他可能會有一些加工的現象把他製造成分裝或者是說製造成其他的一個產品所以這部分的話就變成必須要一家一家去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7704.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7721.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以這個一家一家調查是由你們調查還是由地方政府?對,由我們配合地方政府去一家一家去做調查,才知道說它在往下的流向是到哪邊去。所以最近的話大概就是在處理的,已經到這一點了。可是部長,我們在2月9號就已經有查到這一家保鑫 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7728.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7756.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
公司他就是進口這個辣椒粉嗎那如果說當時你們已經是通知地方政府那也一家一家去查的話因為我們昨天才知道這樣的一個訊息就是火鍋店也有用這個蘇丹色素那像這樣子的話距離到現在已經將近又一個月的時間那我是希望就是說有沒有可能在這個你們查到之後那也要求地方政府也要在短時間內 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7758.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7769.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
他們的所有的這個廠商賣給誰可能就是要把他勾結出來避免民眾吃了之後那個有的可能全部都吃到肚子裡面去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7770.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7789.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
對,所以這一個部分的話,不過現實上還是有它的困難,所以馬上就可以知道了。比如說我們去查了保鑫,知道保鑫有賣給寄生嘛,那寄生公司到底又把它變成什麼樣的東西的話,這個沒有去找寄生去一樣一樣去對的話是不可能知道的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7790.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7806.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以跟紀生對了之後才知道說他從保新這邊進口的這些違規的產品的批號是哪一些的話是製成什麼樣的產品然後往哪邊去銷售 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7807.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7833.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這部分的話在我們的系統裡面沒有辦法追到所以這個是不是在我們的系統也要做一些比較精進的有它的困難度會有它的困難度因為它的產品有些品項太多一家公司製造出來的項目就非常多而且你每一個項目的話還要再去登記那個到底它賣到哪裡去的話要在這裡面去做的話是有它實質上的困難不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7834.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7863.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
碰到這樣子我們去追蹤的時候就針對這些違規產品是循線下去調查是比較可行的那針對這個蘇丹色素它原本就不應該在食品上出現嘛對不對對那我想請教部長就是說你本身也是法律也是法律出身嘛那我想請教就是說以前在這個這個混油的案件當中可能我們這個行政裁法就是可能可以先做行政裁法 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7864.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7879.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那我看到現在好像食藥署或地方的這個衛生機關就是在這個好像在這個司法判決出爐之前好像沒有一個裁罰的空間我想請教是不是針對這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7883.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7902.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們講說不良的廠商這個原本不應該在食品上面出現的那因為我覺得說第一線的這個查驗的同仁其實也非常的辛苦那到地方政府這個衛生局的這個同仁更辛苦因為他們要查的東西真的是太多了那像這樣子的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7904.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7920.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
未來我們可以怎麼樣去處理一方面可以遏止或者是可以讓這些他不法要進口這些東西進來的時候他至少他知道說那我可能進來之後可能會受到的這個處罰或是罰款非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7922.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7936.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這部分分兩個第一個就是說在行政法法上面的話當然就是有先行刑法先行事後行政的這樣一個規定但是他指的是處罰是同一類的比如說罰金跟罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7938.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7952.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這可能就是讓法院去判決有多少罰金至於說要有期徒刑這一類的話那只有刑事行政是沒有有期徒刑的但是其他的行政的處罰的話就沒有在這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7955.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7977.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
行法的範圍之內,比如說讓他停止下架、停止販售、測銷他的執照,這些都是屬於行政的。行政的這些處分,事實上是不必等刑事判決就可以去做的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7978.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7994.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我希望就是說因為大家都對這個食品安全都非常的重視我希望一般民眾他到現在他會覺得說我連吃一個火鍋我都會擔心說裡面是不是有蘇丹色素蘇丹紅所以一般的民眾要怎麼去辨別 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7996.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8019.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
其實這一個添加紅色色素的事實上有一些是合法的有些是非法的非法的部分的話其實這個蘇丹色素的話會讓這一個顏色是比較鮮豔那以我們現在來看的話今天這一個案件裡面很多是因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8021.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8034.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那個辣椒炒過或處理過之後製成辣椒粉的時候,它顏色就會改變,變黃或變黑,所以廠商就會想要加紅色色素,讓它賣相是比較好看 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8036.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8060.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
像這樣子的蘇丹社會其實我們的肉眼並沒有辦法去分辨說它到底是合法的這一個社會所以就是要從源頭管理但是我們會把這些有問題的這些違法的產品的批號我們會對外去公開來所以民眾有疑慮的話其實是可以去對照一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8062.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8089.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我希望就是說大家對這個食品安全的一個重視也希望就是說衛福部真的要在第一關替人民把關真的大家都對這個真的眼睛盯著看每天的這個新聞的發展所以拜託部長還有署長我們一起努力謝謝好我們謝謝黃修邦委員的質詢那接下來我們請蘇清泉委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8098.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8098.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
進口了十幾萬公斤的蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8130.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8156.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
蘇丹紅沒有進口那麼多然後這個東西應該是工業用做油炸、做鐵炭、做一些工業燃料那怎麼會跑到食品來目前這個案子添加進去是在大陸那邊就已經添加了並不是進口蘇丹紅跟辣椒粉在國內再去粉、再去摻雜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8159.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8187.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我查一下齁,歐盟跟美國都不能用嘛,都不能用在食品天下齁那中國大陸以前還有在用,但是現在也禁止了,也禁止了,對不對?在他們那邊理論上也是非法也是禁止,那我們台灣食藥署是美國啦、歐盟啦禁止,我們就直接禁止了但是我們的茶盒沒有到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8189.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8210.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以你今天的那個食安報告是部長你唸的嘛那個你有看過嘛你都認可嘛那你第5頁我看第5頁的倒數第二行說是中央跟地方積極查辦結果我看那是分裡面查出來我現在要說的重點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8213.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8227.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
中央訂了一大堆然後不能進口這個不能進口像那個那個乙型受體劑也是這樣但是我們的茶盒是有問題那現在到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8229.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8252.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個蘇丹紅進口的是無藥生、無藥生進口嘛,然後再分給工廠,工廠再去分裝,或者是再加工,然後再到二級,剛剛部長講的,再到二級,再到三級,就開火了,也不知道要怎麼炒。那進來是當作工業用,還是當食品用,他一進來,他也搞不清楚。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8254.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8278.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
蘇丹紅是另外一件事情它進來的一定是工業用的但是我們現在是查辣椒粉裡面餐有蘇丹紅它餐的這個時間點是在中國就已經餐好了然後再進來就是辣椒粉在邊境要去檔製檔這一個那我們像什麼夏威仙啦海底撈啦什麼鹹鴨蛋啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8280.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以這個案件是人們檢舉的? |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8303.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8314.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那是在訓練那邊是人檢記但是我們的邊境一直一直就都一直在升高那個抽批的比例了一直逐件查驗還是抽驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8321.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8334.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那這個抽驗是海關做還是我們食藥署做那食藥署本身有人力配置在那裡我看你們的預算都今年比去年少 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8336.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8349.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
人也越來越少,剛剛我們王毓民委員說他死了20歲就存一個,救20歲的薪水又低,壓力又大,然後又沒有成就感這誰會幹啊,所以你們要怎麼處理啊,不然這個以後層出不窮啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8354.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8376.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這時候我們會爭取,那應該希望就是說在今年下半年審預算的時候那委員能夠支持,我們能夠把這一部分的預算我們是在野黨,我們也支持,我們也全力支持,這個太可怕了所以這個漏洞,你將來是要怎麼來填補 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8381.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8399.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
目前來講的話我們是考慮說要把這些所謂的高風險的物質把它標示出來以後的這一個部分的話一發現有違規可能我們就不應該出現的東西它出現了那我們就變成這一類的產品100%的抽菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8402.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8424.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
據部長所知,這種用工業的染料之類的,然後有可能會危害到食品或加到食品裡面我現在跟您解釋,到底我們是吃多久了?我看他從小吃到盡,沒死就算不錯了沒死就不錯了,我坐在這裡大家都要翻垃圾 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8426.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8434.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
在前年之前的話,事實上我們在邊境並沒有檢驗出來,所以有這個藍。因為我們金馬農的酒門,車程在進去時門的金馬農都鄉親的,我會說那都是蘇丹紅,我死了。金馬農過去曾經有一件, |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8444.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8456.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
有一件事的確是參蘇丹紅,那好像是106年啦,現在再抽鹹肉兩隻,都鹹的都沒有啦。沒有啦齁?我們營養午餐有兩百萬的孩子在吃。 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8460.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8462.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
一進來的廠商到底是幾家?貿易商到底幾家再分出去? |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8479.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8491.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
目前貿易商進口這些違規的參有這個蘇丹紅的這個辣椒粉大概有4家4家所以都有秀出來了嘛你看預算那麼少你看1800多萬你是要做什麼做狗的這我都做什麼部長這太含了 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8510.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8524.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個食安五環就沿途管理我看你們也沒有能力到大陸去查場那這個要怎麼來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8529.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8553.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
對阿所以現在的做法就是說一查到有違規的添加蘇丹紅我們就禁止所以你是在第二關這裡對第二關或第三關這邊來查嗎對好也算源頭啦這也算源頭啦邊境如果查到了我們就禁止他進口啦好再來我要問那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8555.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8555.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
臺客多巴胺 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8574.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8575.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
有茶嗎?進口的豬肉你們有茶嗎?有啊,醃的時候我們都是一起醃 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8596.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8601.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
因為台堂這一次我有跑到信工、肉品 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8608.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8628.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
臺糖的豬就他,他們幫他採、幫他包裝,楊老闆跟我講說,一定是臺糖給他採的豬都是他們自己養的,他很有信心,臺糖的品牌會夠,因為臺糖本身,這個豚 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8633.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8654.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
安心屯 安心屯 那個賣得很好啊 這賣得不夠所以我看他是強烈的質疑啦 一定是拿外面的肉來攪一攪切切賣不出來那外面的肉有去污染到 或是說外國用西部吐露的 加拿大也有 澳大利亞也有 美國也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8655.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8683.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
全世界都有用瘦二肩的都沒有用西部特羅西部特羅在醫界以前也在用當作減肥藥只要量控制得好增加代謝、甲狀腺、坑糞、心血管像我們心臟胃科心血管讓它加強那個真的每一個吃起來都很棒身材都很棒都沒有油花應該是西部特羅吧應該是其他的以前受體術西部特羅還沒聽過 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8686.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8708.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以我在想說臺堂那一批就驗到那一份那其他那一同一批部長在說同一批次的沒有驗到那當然沒有驗到全部都吃掉了吃到肚子餓了你又抽其他的抽到700多件都抽到沒有沒有啦港肥我有啦港肥有喔港肥有吹到啦鹽我沒有啦我鹽沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8711.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8714.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
兩天前,我們整個屏東、萬鸞鄉、內埔鄉建百香果的都崩盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8730.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8743.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
因為有一個營養書、康健雜誌轉給你用110年,我們農委會的data就說百香果的農藥產育量第一名、第二名、四個結果台灣百香果的產量最多是6頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8753.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8779.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
阿屏東那邊才有站三四時阿屏東那邊都是用不能撤掉轉做所以是匯扶政府政策全部都是往事的根本沒有在撒尿毛你看那麼漂亮阿這下你摸一下就轉沒崩盤那些農民每個人都要跳牢阿所以我去那我在這邊要請食藥署看要不要幫忙看要不要澄清一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8782.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8802.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
臺兩天前,這個很重要,這個也出事,那個也出事,他們已經非常痛苦,整個全部都凍掉。那我也找新北火災公司等等,趕快倒銷,找那個兩百萬個小孩子要吃營養午餐的幫忙,請他們來幫忙。那這個部長跟署長,有要幫忙嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8807.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8810.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我是建議他去告這個營養師,把他更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8833.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8840.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
所以署長這邊如果可以的話,幫他們公文,這比較重要,不會討厭好,謝謝好,謝謝蘇星泉委員的質詢接下來我們請盧憲一委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8866.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8866.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
委員好,好久不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8879.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8905.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們都知道食品添加物在歐盟只有4項在臺灣竟然有高達17項那我是覺得我們臺灣國人的腎臟應該沒有比全世界的人家好可是我們卻有17項的去年通過了食品添加物的所謂的類別那我們在歐盟只有4項也就是Sweetener對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8906.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8907.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
蘇丹紅一直在說是工業用 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8923.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8949.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
不過7年前發生的時候是蔡英文剛上任也就是在105年的食安五環的那個政策之後發生的那也就是說如果當時在將近7年前這件事情已經發生了可是後來7年後已經是這麼久的食安五環為什麼又再度發生呢 對不對所以這不是應該更嚴格把關在主動上面 對不對那 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8951.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8975.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
還有一個就是如果我們在烹飪食材的時候有的時候會綁線有時候是一些我不知道的線它是不是也會沾染到一些工業用的燃料是不是也應該要當作一個比較常規的檢查我知道就中央的剛才所說的查緝人員非常少也沒有增加這幾年只有增加一位在地方上更是如此不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8976.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8999.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
部長,我們在衛生局所最辛苦的就是稽查人員每一個人都很辛苦沒有做,稽查人員特別辛苦可是這方面的兵力預算是不是可以在下一任部長或者是你還是部長的時候能夠特別增加我們的稽查員的人力編制他們的生活非常的辛苦,對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9001.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9025.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
應該是說地方的這些人力的調配還是在地方政府手上那當然如果說針對食品稽查、食品藥品的稽查的部分的人力需要增加的話那其實是可以來跟中央這邊講那我們看能不能整體的起一個計畫來做處理最好是全國性的通盤檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9027.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9048.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好那7年前這件事情是給鴨子吃的蘇丹紅7年後的這件事情是給人吃的辣椒粉你不覺得是退步嗎?不是進步是退步欸7年前那個是一個個案啦特例的有一個養鴨場的主人他把蘇丹紅放進去當飼料參雜在飼料裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9051.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9067.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那今年這個是從國外進口的這個產品辣椒粉的這個產品參了蘇丹紅本質上還是會有一些不一樣早上我在看一些違反的一些食品項目當中已經我已經多到看不完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9068.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9091.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
是不是要趕快的把他在媒體上公告給大家民眾知道說這些哪些東西已經不能再使用了這一個部分就是我們目前在做的我們就是一家一家去回溯然後看這一個產品是有問題的我們就把這個產品的品名跟批號我們會把它公布出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9092.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9105.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好,第二個方面就是我們原住民的食材常常被歸類在未確認安全不得使用清單裡面那我剛剛看了一個雲端的資料大概目前這些不確定安全的名單裡面有537項 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9107.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9130.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那如果以後有民眾捲舉達人就是說原住民的食材裡面是不安全的那被捲舉然後違法然後就被罰款對我們原住民來說非常的不合理因為我們就長期在使用這些比如說原生的一些植物那我希望在很短的時間裡面可以釐清這些平常我們在使用的一些特殊的葉子 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9130.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9156.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
能夠公告為安全的名單裡面,不然以後如果處罰做的人很辛苦,被罰的人更是可憐,是不是?這我們會找園民會跟農業部一起來做討論目前已經公告了這裡面如果有一些屬於原住民的傳統的食材這部分的話,那我們可以來討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9158.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9168.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
的確那個要去找科學證據證明他安全是有困難的我希望農業部、延民會跟地方的政府主管、原住民事務的一些官員一起參加來討論,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9170.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9191.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這項就是關於去年剛通過的原建法我希望他那個專責機構能夠建設的成立因為目前還沒有專責機構嘛他有指定專責機構不過還沒有這目前我們的規劃是在這個照護師裡面的有一個科那專責是原住民健康事務的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9191.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9206.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那因為這一個還在跟人事總書這邊在商討所以以後是在照護師嗎對對會增加一個科那這一個部分的話是人事總書那邊還沒有核定好那以後如果有機會的話就請我一起開會好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9209.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9230.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那就是關於衛生所升級的部分因為部長都知道說我們原住民地區其實在照顧原住民健康的幾乎是衛生所那我從民國91年到去年離開衛生所退休其實衛生所沒有升級過我所謂的升級是應該人員的編制上面的一個升級比如說應該有行政組應該有防疫組應該有癌症組應該有醫療組 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9235.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9261.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這樣的話不是只有這五六個人在做同樣這麼不同類別這麼專門的事情讓我們的醫護人員疲於本命不是嗎這一個部分的話我們對衛生所裡面的這些編制曾經做了一次的變革那我們建議說那裡面的話人力可以做怎麼樣的一個調整但是他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9262.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9288.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
因為其實衛生所還是在地方政府在人事編制的部分還是在地方政府的管轄之內如果經費夠的話是不是可以先從特別偏遠的地區開始施行比如說阿里山、霧台這些比較偏遠的地區讓我們的醫護人員可以免於疲憊奔命的在照顧我們的族人還要身兼行政的工作然後還要值班對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9289.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9307.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
好最後一個就是關於IDS的問題就是說他們在一個給付的一個值班費或者是一個訓療新回藥的津貼裡面就醫師的部分是沒有改變過也就是說我從91年進去到去年推出沒有改變過護理人員稍微調整不過我總覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9308.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9335.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
應該是不夠的所以尤其是現在在炒護理人員的值班費的問題這方面應該要從優的去考慮我們偏遠地區的醫療人員的一個給付不然非常辛苦24小時上班以後還要再做白天的工作尤其在山上可以嗎委員你應該也知道因為這一個是在健保的範圍整合的範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9336.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9352.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我希望健保局那邊可以做一個檢討好嗎?對,但是這還是要透過健保會等等這樣子的一個機制大家去做討論好,謝謝好,謝謝好,我們謝謝盧憲毅委員的質詢接下來我們請劉建國委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9365.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9365.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
1月30日今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9386.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9401.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
FDA公布邊境查驗結果,中國輸入臺灣辣椒粉共28,000多公斤,驗出蘇丹色素3號這沒有問題吧?好那你可以從這個大司機裡面再去看有講到這個蘇丹色素3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9410.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9436.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
幾乎每天將近有一半因為我懷有相關資料沒有納入進去啦齁包含有這個什麼蝦味仙啦齁還有海底撈還有剛才張偉拿的那個什麼相關的一些零嘴的食品等等等還有辣還有調味料如果如果要要要有更積極的作為我想我這個大司機應該是放不下而且會每天會一包至兩包以上啦齁那我現在講說我對照我現在對照你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9438.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9448.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你們的這個報告裡面的第7頁第7頁已經提到邊境全面竹坯檢驗你的竹坯檢驗是從112年的12月11日以採取100%竹坯檢驗然後檢驗合格後使得輸入那你現在跟我講就是說1月30號這個也是竹坯檢驗這個邊境的檢驗查到了這2萬多公斤的蘇丹紅色素3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9468.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9497.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你是要跟我們說明的是說他是在他是在你12月11日之前的100%主批檢驗之前進來的是不是這樣對但是緩之你不可能一個食品一個添加物你馬上就100%主批檢驗應該之前是有先可能是50%再往前推可能是30%有查到不合格或是什麼樣狀況你才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9499.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9510.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
慢慢的調高這個足比檢驗的這個這個層數嘛對不對應該是這麼講那現在問題來了嘛齁如果照你這麼說到了1月30然後100%的檢驗是去年的12月11號足足有兩個多月時間喔對不對兩個多月嘛12月11嘛我們算一個月嘛1月30算一個月就將近快兩個月時間嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9529.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9556.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那這個中間你們的50%、30%有可能再往前推可能是半年嘛齁大概是這樣一個一個一個一個一個時間嘛對不對通通沒有查到這個蘇丹色素3號一直到1月30才有辦法查到我們的食安五環裡面講得非常清楚嘛齁你們開宗明義第一頁就講到嘛源頭控管嘛加強查驗嘛齁然後加重惡意 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9557.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9583.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
黑心廠商的責任我從這三個面向來跟你討論第一個圓融控管我覺得這是有問題的第二個家常茶宴我覺得更有問題我為什麼要這麼表達因為你們自己在相關的報告裡面也寫了很多AI的大數據然後加重怎樣的這個跨部會的相關的資料然後前端的把關輸入食品的安全等文件的措施然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9584.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9613.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
還有要提高這個違規產品的運送率當我們在12月去年12月11號的時候已經提高到100%的時候我們怎麼會到快兩個月時間才在邊境查驗到中國輸入的台灣辣椒粉共2萬多公斤將近快3萬公斤這個顯然邊境查驗逐批檢驗是有很大的問題我要挑戰這件事情這其一嘛齁那其二你再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9615.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9634.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
在保鑫這家公司應該是最大應該是我了解看到相關數據跟資料保鑫這家公司應該是最大的進口商目前來講對不對那從1月30還不曉得保鑫2月7號應該就是要知道了那你們目前為止對保鑫做什麼作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9638.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9650.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
委員的兩個問題,第一個就是說,我們從去年百分之百的抽批之後,那到1月30,這個有公佈這個邊境檢驗結果有輸入的,驗豬有蘇丹色素3號的這一個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9662.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9666.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那這中間我們所做的其實就是對於之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9668.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9693.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
還沒有百分之百抽批之前的那些已經進來的那我們要求去做後市長的一個查驗那這個都有這一個請那個地方的衛生局後續去做這個稽查那這中間因為總共的輸入是有9批那檢驗不合格所以這個我們就交給地方去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9696.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9707.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以這中間我們是有做事情那第二個問題是委員提到說那現在對保新我們做了哪一些處理那是不是我請那個署長來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9711.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9711.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
什麼時候開法? |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9734.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9755.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
對,3月3號3月3號,所長你自己看吼,我的大四季裡面有出現保新的是2月24、2月28、2月29然後3月2號,甚至有廠家主動自己拿去檢驗發現有這個問題,然後也跟保新提出退貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9756.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9774.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
那保新有通知他所有的這些下游的廠家主動下架嗎?沒有那我們只有開華兩百萬嗎?這個加重惡意黑心廠商的責任嗎?這是一件事情我從你的五道食安五環五道面向來討論嘛那第二個我剛剛有特別提到你們還沒有回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9775.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9797.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
12月11號,去年11月11號就已經百分之100%的這樣的一個查驗怎麼會到1月30還有這麼多驗出將近3萬公斤的蘇丹色素3號你要跟我表達說這個是之前那這個之前的檢驗,邊境檢驗是出了什麼問題今天稍微講,要感謝稍微排這個專案但是應該把邊境的相關的人員都要找來才對那我這關題發生了這麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9802.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9814.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這真的是有問題部長你再思考一下還有包含署長到底是什麼地方出了問題而且你們的整體的這個說法裡面整個報告裡面我先提供到這兩點還有問題我們都要在第一個時間去阻斷第一個時間要去阻斷非凡產品於境外那顯然是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9832.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9844.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這呈現了1月30的2萬多公斤的驗出來,這就是在邊境就擋住了,因為他驗出來是有是1月30嗎?對啊,就是你1月30這邊寫的那你是不是要跟我表達說12月11號100%提高到100%的時候,一直到1月30這個中間 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9850.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9876.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
還是沒有擋住的嗎?12月11號之前也是沒有擋住的嗎?才有底下這些大試劇嗎?應該是這樣說嗎?應該是說兩萬多公斤是被擋住的對啊,兩萬多公斤就是在1月30號這個邊境查驗的時候100%查驗的時候才擋住嘛對不對?之前沒有擋住嘛因為你剛剛講說後面發生的大試劇應該是在提高100%之前進口到台灣來的嘛所以不管38%、不管50%甚至於12月11號的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9879.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9902.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
一百趴一直到今年的1月30我們都會有很多沒有擋住才會發生這麼多的大事件一百趴之後就不會沒有擋住啦是一百趴之前嘛一百趴之前才有說啊漏了嘛那你就要提供相關數據從12月11號一百趴之後一直到1月30的所有主批檢驗發生的不合格率 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9904.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9933.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
有多少嗎?不可能就1月30去檔到還是你這個是累積的嗎?你是從12月11號累積到累積嘛齁?好啊所以我們的邊境查驗你就是要告訴委員會說從今而後通通要100%對啊不然就是會有落網之魚嘛對因為你看這相關產品這麼多香味鮮調味料還有那個鴨血等等等應該還有很多很多相關製品嘛對不對這個明天可能會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9934.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9956.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
有不一樣的食品在發生嗎?有可能這其一嘛,好那其二食安通報的SOP到底是怎麼樣?你來看這是我們雲縣政府啦齁他是這樣喔他是在1月8號接貨陳情結果是到1月22號才抽樣就過了兩個禮拜嘛,對不對這是他們的新聞稿我知道他們的新聞稿說給你聽1月30號才確認有蘇丹紅色素 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9961.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9986.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
所以才隨即找了業者也業者也說在1月31號會立即通知下游下架產品然後通報然後在2月7號通報全國1月8號接獲陳情2月7號通報全國在我們整個網上網消署報在向全國通報如果依照這個SOP對照臺中的希伯特羅事件這差天差地啊他要通知業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9990.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9997.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
來做說明然後再做統一的下架然後你看臺中的西波特羅事件連臺黨都沒有通知過我們的SOP到底出了什麼問題怎麼沒有一個全國統一的標準像面對這些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10008.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10031.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個部分的話委員這樣問的話我們是認為說我們可以來進一步再找不是不是這個事情我覺得灰龍小葛有一個西部特羅現在有一個蘇丹紅未來有什麼事情我們不曉得如果經常這樣地方政府跟中央政府都不同調這個沒有什麼cancel那個問題每個人都要吃每個人都會賭到這個原本中央就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10037.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10065.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
要請全力的去把這個整個SOP建制完成嘛才不會有這樣的事情發生嘛不然你看這個不是很好很離譜一個是廠家對保鮮主動退貨我們知道這個事情之後我們去裁判兩百萬另外一個是接獲陳情然後兩個禮拜之後才抽樣1月30才確認將近快一個月才確認有蘇丹紅然後再來在1月31號也足足快一個月時間才通報全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10070.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10090.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
第三件事情這個SOP你們一定要趕快建制啦吼第三件事情怎麼會你們的報告裡面什麼會對這一個波格輸入的廠家中國這廠家什麼暫停三個月的輸入你知道中國跟台灣永遠都沒有對等的機會這是非常不智的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10091.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10114.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
怎麼說?臺灣的農產品、臺灣的食品輸入到中國一旦發現有像農產品有甲殼蟲無限期的禁止輸入相關的食品也一樣全國在他們中國全國包含新疆他都要求全面下架禁到他們的海關全部扣關我們怎麼會對他們這麼好只有禁三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10115.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10140.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這樣永遠沒有對等的機會請部長展現魄力啦好不好因為署長我覺得我剛才提到的整個食安通報的事情這個應該是要有一個非常明確的建制啦不然這事情會持續的發生會永遠不斷最後我還是覺得邊境的查驗它是有很大的問題我希望你提供那些數據給我們好不好1月30之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10142.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10163.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
年內查到的不合格率到底是什麼樣的狀況給委員會所有委員做參考好 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝劉建國委員進行的質詢那主席在這邊宣告我們待會等林淑芬委員質詢完畢之後我們處理臨時提案接下來我們請王振旭委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10174.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10176.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們還是請辛苦的部長還有署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10186.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10204.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我想大家都很關心這個食安的問題那一開始趙志偉也有提到好像跟致癌有關係那剛好這是我的專業那目前我們也知道我們今天所出現的這個蘇丹紅事件基本上它是第三級的致癌物 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10205.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10231.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
第三集的意思就是他對在動物實驗上可能可以發生癌症可是實際上在人體還沒有被發現過因為基本上蘇丹紅他不應該是使用在人類身上所以就沒有相關的數據不過我們也相信大家一定會非常關心未來在癌症的問題不過我想我們還是針對現在更關心的問題怎麼來處理怎麼來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10234.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10237.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們知道到目前為止事實上看起來是越滾越大的這些困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10252.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10269.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們也知道其實從105年就啟動了這個食安五環到底這個食安五環是不是有它的成效本席認為其實它還是有一定的成效只是這次又出現了這個系統性問題那代表我們還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10269.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10269.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
致詢問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10291.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10304.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這個報宅在去年底就有一家它的下游廠商發現了問題演出了這個蘇丹紅他就把它退貨那同時也讓這個相關的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10308.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10322.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
保新他們做後續的處理那很可惜如果那個時候如果那個時候能夠掌握到這個問題點的話相信後面的問題應該就不會有機會產生那剛剛邱委員有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10323.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10339.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們有沒有相關的這個同業的市井機制那這個市井機制未來要如何的產生為什麼我們的同業他無法把這樣的訊息有效的傳遞到我們的主管機關這部分不知道部長有哪一些的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10342.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10344.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
其實同院之間發現說至於送院發現說有這違規的成分的話理論上還是應該要通報但是以這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10357.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10374.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
委員所提到這一個的話那我們並不知道有這麼一回事我們並不知道有這樣一回事那這一個部分的話未來是也許是可以加強不過這變成說對廠商的要有這樣一致性的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10378.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10405.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
對,應該是要通報,但是他等於說把他私了這個處理是不太恰當的我們會再重申可能是沒有通報的話可能會有一定的責任是,我們了解各個專業之間都會有同儕壓力以食安為例,如果他上下有這個關係的話未來如何能夠建構好這樣的市井機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10408.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10433.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
本席認為非常非常重要這個已經是在食安五環裡面還要再加強的部分這是第一個問題那第二個問題就是邊境查驗剛剛已經看到非常非常多的這些委員有發表的高見那我們看到這個數據就是112年的確有出現22批已經不合格的批數所以如果有更好的滾動檢驗的強度跟密度 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10435.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10463.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
理論上就可以減少這樣的風險發生那其實剛剛昭惠有提到我們的人力真的是非常非常的不夠所以相信通過這次的事件以後也期待未來在編類預算或者是各方面應該國會這邊會努力的來加強這方面的要求那也希望能夠提供適當的人力出來讓這個處理可以更完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10464.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10486.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
不過我比較好奇的就是通常這個進口商或者是廠商他們會進這些進來出現違規的這個食品添加物應該是有它的價格上的問題意思就是說如果同一批類似的產品他們要進來一定有一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10487.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10487.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10502.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10528.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
有可能產生哪一些的方式來瞭解當這個價錢跟市場機制是很不合理的改變的時候我們有沒有市井的機制跟委員報告這一個部分從價格上面可能會看不出來因為他以A代B以違規的來取代是合法的他不會跟你講也不見得會反映在售價上面報價上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10530.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10552.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
因為這樣一趟比較多啦用合格的也許他的成本10塊嘛用不合格的成本降到7塊他又賺了這3塊他不會即時跟你報說我成本降了3塊,不會所以他就會獲得那3塊錢的包吏所以大概從價格上面要去做管制大概有他的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10553.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10563.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
了解,所以的確有它執行上的困難好,那往下我們可以看我們也可以了解再往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10565.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10585.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
食安問題真的是很嚴重尤其我們也了解中國的食安意識相對不足這是我們可以從各方面來了解因為包括在幾年前就有這個三聚千安的事件導致很多小朋友得到這個很不好的結果所以一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10586.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10601.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們有沒有可能去標示產地尤其是這些高風險的國家進到台灣來它的添加物如果會頻繁的出現在這個食品上面的話那對於已經出現過好幾次的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10607.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10621.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
對食安造成問題的這些添加物我們能不能夠也同時要求要標示產地資訊的公開保障國人的食安安全這個可以提供我們民眾更多的這個資訊安全的這些保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10621.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10642.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
根據食安法的規定,不管是產品進來都必須要標示製造果,包括添加物的部分其實也是要,現在只是在技術上可能有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10643.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10666.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
比方說現在是這一次的事件一瓶辣椒粉你可以去標示說這辣椒粉的原產果是在中國這沒有問題但是辣椒粉所添加的色素要另外再去標示說這個色素的來源果是多少那恐怕在那小小的一瓶辣椒粉的標示的 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10666.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10682.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
的那個level上面的話擠不下那麼多東西了解所以希望未來有機會的話也可以再研議看看那最後一個問題呢就是我不知道我們是不是算食品大國 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10684.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10684.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
外交到馬來西亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10699.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10719.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那身為這個全球的議員臺灣如果出現了這些不健康對民眾有傷害或者是會影響到健康的食品那如果賣到其他國家我們目前有什麼機制可以去示警去讓其他國家也了解的同時我們有沒有什麼回收機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10721.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10748.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
這部分的話應該是說我們如果真正有外銷出去的應該會通知那個輸入口那邊的管理的機關應該會有一個通報的機制是那這部分如果有相關通報或直接回收的話也希望能夠公告給全民的民眾可以知道我們目前所做的努力以上好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10750.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10758.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
好 謝謝王振旭委員的質詢接下來我們請楊耀委員進行質詢謝謝主席 主席請教薛部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10774.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10796.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
部長好 部長我們就這一次中國的辣椒粉裡面添加了蘇丹紅也造成了一些後續的問題那我們大概在去年首次檢出違規的辣椒粉以後就依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10797.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10820.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
食品以及相關產品輸入查驗辦法提高抽驗的數量那我們是逐步提高20%然後50%然後到全面這樣子逐步查驗的比例跟是不是會查出更多有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10821.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10848.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
這一次是查出來越查越多因為比例增高是越來越多但是如果說它本來就沒有那麼普遍的話提高這個抽驗比例應該是比例會越來越少所以就是假如說是比較大規模的違規事件就會隨著抽驗提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10849.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10878.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
提高他的案件數假如是偶發的反而會降低對不對也就是說並不是抽查的比例越高案件就越高啦要看個別的事件這個我想說是不是每一件都一樣那部長這樣子也是我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10879.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10904.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們現在大概我知道食藥署這邊有在研議要修正食品及相關產品的輸入、輸入查驗辦法大概就是嚴重違規的太陽我們是打算要跳過加強抽驗跟逐批查驗直接禁止輸入那這個違規嚴重違規的太陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10909.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10934.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
大概會是什麼情形?像蘇丹紅就屬於這類我們會有幾個判斷的依據第一個就是說那這一個產品發生違規的比例就是說它的頻率有多高第二就是說它造成人體的危害是有多重那第三個就是這種異常非常異常不應該出現在這個食品裡面的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10936.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10947.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
突然出現了,那這個部分的話可能也是屬於我們就先全面禁止,對本會先提升到100%,如果100%還查到的話,那就禁止了 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10950.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10965.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那像現在我們查驗到了以後因為有部分已經流入市場嘛你們跟地方政府應該有要求地方政府要強化查驗的預警機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10967.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10988.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
對這些可能的漏網之魚,也就是說這幾家公司進來的產品,在當時還沒有100%抽批結果就讓他准他獲得,我們就請地方政府再去把他回來抽驗如果有不合格的,那就還是通通要下架現在這個機制應該是存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10992.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11005.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我提一個問題就是因為剛才我們大概就是按照違規的情況從20%到50%到百分之百所以人力的部分其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11007.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11024.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為邊境的茶宴,茶的項目也多,包括農藥的殘留量也都在裡面,所以範圍非常的廣,所以需要的人力很多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11027.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11047.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
在111年也就是2022年的時候我們輸入的食品重量是將近900萬公噸那個時候我們的茶宴的人數茶宴的人員是192人這個是111年的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11056.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11078.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
相較於109年齁 相較於兩年前109年109年其實只有八十 八十一個就是等於我們在兩年裡面增加了 增加了兩倍的人力齁那 我知道 我知道這 這裡有部分的人力其實是透過前瞻預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11080.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11105.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
來補充的那現在前瞻預算可能快要結束了人力的問題部長這邊有沒有什麼構想我們在今年我們會來跟行政院這邊溝通希望說在因為這個食品進口的茶園的話工作是越來越繁重對 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11106.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11121.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所以我們希望能夠增加人力這我們來跟行政院這邊爭取那如果爭取得到當然同時所需要的預算我們會編列進來在今年就編列進來那下個會期就會送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11121.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11144.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
部長這個應該要爭取到我相信不分黨派的委員也都會支持大家既然對於國人的食安的部分這麼重視人力不足是沒有辦法處理好很多事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11150.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11158.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我繼續問現在比如說蘇丹紅違規的廠商那大概已經雲林地鐵署已經有開始在啟動偵查那這是形式的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11175.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11194.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
民眾因為食品安全的關係所以他可能會有對自己身體有一些傷害那這裡有關民事的部分有兩個問題第一個問題就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11198.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11221.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
其實食品安全的民事訴訟最困難的就是怎麼建構跟證明它的因果關係 對不對這個很困難 第二個就是它有的時候譬如說像塑化劑、三聚氰胺這種半衰期相對短 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11223.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11233.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那到檢驗的時候其實很難驗出來也就是說他在民事訴訟的難度是很高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11240.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11266.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們這邊有沒有協助民眾提起團體訴訟的機制?報告委員我們在食安法裡面底下所設的食安基金其實是可以協助民眾來做這一方面的工作也就是說它的法律的相關的一些事務的費用的話我們是可以給予補助的那主要是如果可能這時候需要經過團體訴訟這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11269.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11282.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 這個就是我們從把關到善後政府都有一定的責任在好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 我們謝謝楊耀委員的質詢接下來我們請林淑芬委員進行質詢好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們食藥署署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11299.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11323.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好 我們請食藥署署長委員好署長你好整個你的所管理的業務裡面最核心的食品跟藥品那我們都知道整個國家的管理制度你們管理制度不管是食品的安全還是藥品的安全都建立在最核心的前提那就是業者自律這個前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11324.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11348.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那業者自律呢?食品安全也是業者自律那顯然我們政府經過多年食安事件以後要求要追溯追蹤系統然後呢?雖然是這樣子但是根據監察院的報告監察院的2020年的報告指出啊這個按照食品衛生管理法的規定所申請登錄的業者有47萬5736家次 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11350.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11364.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
但是呢 你們要求 強力要求要建立這個追溯追蹤系統要參加食品雲的加數只有一萬加比例是七萬跟一萬比例是兩趴兩趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11366.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11370.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
在這種狀況裡面事實上我們會講說你今天的報告講得很好聽你今天的書面報告說食藥署的風險預警預判功能是有預判的所以你們要強化風險預警分析為導入數據分析輔助風險偵測然後針對高規高關注的產品高風險進行預判 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11390.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11396.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
然後呢你們今天還講到說這個要強化風險預警預判功能不但講預警預判連登錄都沒有然後強制要登錄追溯追蹤的只有2%的業者所以在這裡喔我們消費者一路走來始終是發生食安事件以後抱歉含致癌物質的藥品我已經吞了一大堆了含致癌物質的添加物我已經吃下去一大堆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11418.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11430.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那今天我就問你最核心的一件事情請問辣椒粉輸入有沒有在食品追溯追蹤系統的登錄體系裡面有沒有強制規定要登錄報告委員那個因為這個業者他如果是有不是這個業者我講辣椒粉這個品項因為這次出示的辣椒粉請問他是依據你們哪一個規定去參加這個登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11446.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11458.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就是我們規定有他的那個資本額是3000萬以上然後又有工廠登記我怎樣請問他們有沒有嗎現在出事的有沒有的有參加食品有沒有登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11460.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11476.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
有追溯系統嗎?有上游的流向從哪裡進來?有下游的流向哪裡?跑到哪裡嗎?保興公司他必須要執行他有沒有執行?我再問你他根據什麼規定要執行?你旁邊記證組長,你是旁邊,問你書店這核心業務,你書店還要你大旁邊幫他搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11482.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11500.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
有那個保興公司他有執行你不要在這裡騙委員難怪大家說國會要有聽證制度你是一共應建立食品追蹤追溯系統的食品業者有幾類有幾項我們這邊一共有25類25類他們是第幾類你說給我聽聽看他是屬於輸入業者不是啦第幾個序號第幾類 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11511.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11530.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我恐怕你們是他是沒有登錄沒有被要求要強硬的要建立食品追蹤追溯系統的吧監察院講了47萬家你們強硬要求規定的都是3000萬規模以上的居多當然也有小型的比如說高風險的也要 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11530.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11549.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是 辣椒粉它根本都不在25類裡面 我想不通你怎麼預判風景你哪裡可以溯源 你當然沒有辦法溯源也不知道流向啊你現在查到的都是海關比對資料勾集出來的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11550.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11572.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
你就回答我 你們在這裡都說法這個委員他這裡齁 第23類這個農產品他是屬於這個農產植物菇類還有藻類製品他是屬於這個輸入業者這一類好 那我現在就再問你 好23類嘛齁 植物製品菇類藻類他是菇類還是藻類製品他是農產植物 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11578.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11583.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
好 那現在我再問你那為什麼你們要這樣子自己擠牙膏慢慢擠 擠這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11585.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11592.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
就是從1月8號檢舉人檢舉檢舉人是寄生SGS有檢出這個韓蘇丹紅然後呢雲林縣政府去查場然後1月22他們去後市場再去買產品然後我們送到衛福部送到衛福部大家今天包括劉建國委員講這個從不要講1月8號啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11611.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11635.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
至少確認的是1月30號然後你們1月30號一直拖拖到2月20號才暫停了21家近年曾經進口不合格輸入不合格中國辣椒粉的業者才3個月然後呢大家才發現說你今天的報告講說去年去年的年中你們5月22 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11638.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11638.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
其中是屬於蘇丹紅的有7批 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11666.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11689.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我現在問你說不合格去年的中國來的是330批我看一下330批我現在問你你光是給我們的22批不合格這是含蘇丹紅還是所有含農藥過蘇丹紅有7批農藥有16批那我現在要跟你講這件事情是食安辦的資料跟你們根本就對不起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11689.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11716.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
光是5月22不合格3批8月15去年不合格6批9月13不合格7批12月11不合格13批這去年半年就超過29批加起來是超過29批因為這是累計的他是累計然後有的是含有農藥所以如果我現在講全部啊不合格批次你給我們的數字是22批 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11717.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11731.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
是然後呢光是我們在看了比對食安辦的半年從5月22到12月11就有29批所以你們提供給我的數據是你們自己也都不起來那我現在還要再講喔你們從5月22 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11734.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11740.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
就發現之前就發現有很多的不合格所以才把抽驗的比例提高到20%在5月之前你們就發現很多不合格所以在5月你們再提高到20%驗出來以後又非常的不合格所以你們去年的8月又把這個抽驗的比例提高到30% |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11760.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11778.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
然後又發現抽菸了還是很多不合格然後再到9月再把提高抽菸的比例提高到50%然後又發現很多不合格才會變成12月的時候說那我們乾脆對中國來的邊境不合格率這麼多的話我們提高抽菸比例到100% |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11781.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11796.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
如果根據這個相關的法規這個查驗辦法食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法來講事實上就是非常非常多每次抽驗都不合格再抽驗又不合格所以才會變成百分之百的抽驗那我現在問你說你抽驗之後你邊境當然是抽驗這麼多不合格不合格以後抽驗到了那你有沒有進行後市場繼續抽驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11806.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11818.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個是源頭邊境嘛你抽菸這麼高這麼多批都不合格你發現這個中國來的辣椒粉穿了蘇丹紅的或是其他農藥超標這麼嚴重那你有沒有做後市場的繼續把關 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11824.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11841.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
有我們如果有在邊境有查到不合格的就會把相關的資訊回饋到後市場然後地方政府他就去查相關的這些到底查了多少次查了哪些記錄對我們後來回饋回饋到地方政府這邊的在 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11844.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11852.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
今年度的1月到2月20號好不要再講我聽不下去因為從去年年初就一直驗不及格驗不及格你們到今年去年一整年你們都沒有後市場抽驗而今年你說1到2月你們交給地方政府不要再講今年的1月8號檢舉人就跟地方政府檢舉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11868.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11885.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
1月8號這個是檢舉人這個不是不是邊境查驗然後再去主動FDA或地方政府主動去候市長查驗產品來抽驗都不是這個案件整個是也不是你溯源稅追蹤系統查出來都不是這是檢舉人起的頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11890.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11902.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以要說你們都明明知道源頭把關的邊境這麼多不合格可是你們還是代呼職者不願意積極辦理然後仍然放任我要再講第二章的這個我跟你們要了這五年裡面邊境查驗違反規定的我就整理了一些啦你看這個名單啦今天出事的過去都出過事了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11924.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11940.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
保新108年也有今天的金站就是海底撈的這個金站加廣我告訴大家不管他叫金站加廣釜山還是海順通通都是同一家人同一家族 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11941.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11951.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
登記在同一個公司吳克民他有兩家所以他們都知道邊境產業不及格沒關係我再用其他公司再進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11952.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11979.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這一家有問題我再用別的再進口然後你看都同一批人你看六豐生物這個綠豐實業看起來好像不是但你到工商登記裡面他們都互為股東都有公私相通還有這個天松企業這個都是檢出蘇丹紅色素所以所以我再講一個我不想差出啦可是這也是實話我就發現這個韓廣韓廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11982.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12011.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我看他的其他的公司登記我認為他進口的不是只有中國辣椒他檢出的這個含有蘇丹紅色素的還有農藥超標的他的進口來源是哪一國這去年而已啊他被檢出3批啊他是中國進口的嗎是不是因為他做的他本來是一家韓國小吃店後來他成立另外兩家公司叫首爾什麼公司還有韓什麼公司的 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12012.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12032.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以我今天要跟你們講 從去年 其實也不要去年 歷年來大家都知道辣椒和辣椒粉本來就是高風險的而你們也查出來 邊境源頭都查出來了可是你們從來不做後市場把關 沒有 而且後市場把關本來就很難了我必須要講為什麼很難 後市場把關為什麼難 因為原料 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12037.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12058.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
原料它添加物然後加工以後變成產品它會一直不斷的稀釋所以在源頭去把關查出不合格檢出違規違法這是比較容易的到後市場你要檢出不合格其實是比較困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12059.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12086.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
可是當你後市場而這一次的事件是1月22號雲林縣政府他去茶場發現原料有問題他還去後市場買買來交給我們食藥署驗仍然這個產品後市場抽驗的產品仍然有蘇丹紅還驗得出來你就知道這個含量多麼的高這個多麼嚴重所以我們都知道說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12088.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12102.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
追溯追蹤你們當然講我們會增加預警預判你們連發現了都不繼續做那我今天在跟你講說你現在禁止了21家的中國食品輸出商嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12104.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12124.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
是不是?對那我問你,廣家跟金站他們輸入中國大陸哪一家公司?Kevin,Kevin食品Kevin食品,OK我們辦公室去使用中國的國家企業信用信息系統沒有這一家公司然後你去Google查詢你知道是查到什麼公司嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12133.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12157.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
Kevin Shippinging可以查得到他是一家什麼公司嗎?我就問你,人家給你登錄了,然後也出事了社會案件都爆發得這麼嚴重了他說你也禁止了21家中國廠商進來我禁止了Kevin Shippinging進來了可是我現在問你有沒有這一家公司?中國有沒有這一家公司啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12158.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12186.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
為什麼一個食品出口商的名字會叫SHIPPINGSHIP我們在GOOGLE查到他是一家香港的船務公司啊中文的名字叫家運船務有限公司你們進口了一家不曉得在做什麼也不知道有沒有真的有這一家公司的這個公司你進了一個虛無縹緲的公司他還有另外一個名稱在進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12187.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12207.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所以我們在想說這樣子怎麼對呢?你們總是讓我們吃下去以後告訴我說這有問題吃下去很多以後告訴我們沒有意囖然後你的風險預警系統根本就是失靈然後呢你看這些廠商每年不斷的反覆在違規今年是這一家明年是那一家結果都是同一家族 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12208.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12221.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
然後他們還是不但你上有政策他更何況他下有對策更何況你們上面根本沒有在查查到了就這樣子再換一個公司不同的名稱台灣進口商但是負責任同一家或是同一個家族 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12222.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12236.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
然後在他們會換名字啊一年裡面我我天我這個海順不會一直用海順啊我下一批用釜山再用金山再用加廣輪流使用不同名稱然後分散被查驗的機率和風險所以今天在這裡說你現在沒有辦法一次告訴我們他明明就這麼高風險而且屢屢被查出被查出到你還有100%查驗了結果你後市場放任不管哈 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12254.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12258.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我們再來對於這種不該存在於食品當中的這些物質那我們就會從百分之百的逐批那我們也會評估之後然後就立刻的停止這些產品的你已經當了這個位置當幾年了啦你未來未來我們有食品雲幾年了你還講說未來以後不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12284.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12305.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那你剛才回答上一個委員講到說如果查到了就下架沒查到呢我們繼續吞下肚嗎所以管理不是這樣子雖然我們知道你們力有未待食品藥品你都是靠業者自律可是當業者不自律這麼久了然後我們一直吞下肚吞那麼久了我們只能自求多福嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12307.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12324.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
在這種狀況裡面,你們講預警預判,你們哪一次成功預警預判?連數據都沒有,連流向都沒有,連這一種那麼公開的紙上公司這麼多輪流進口的,同一個家族的,然後每年都違規的,後市場都放任不管,還要靠檢舉案,整個事件是檢舉案耶! |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12329.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12339.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這個跟10年前10年前沒有食品雲事件沒有食品雲制度的食安事件還是回到原點沒有更進步所以我們今天在這裡監察院講的食品業者47萬家強制登錄的2%那沒有登錄就已經慘了有登錄的你也沒辦法發生獄派沒辦法有獄警的機制通通都沒有是靠檢舉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12358.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12375.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我剛剛講說你們現在把他鎖定在只有某些特定的廠商或是國家其他沒有嗎其他沒有嗎其他我剛剛就給你舉一個例子了高度的可疑啊 也是累犯啊這些都是累犯所以今天在這裡齁我是覺得啦 部長我看起來這麼多年我們的書店不適任啦不適任啦 也沒有能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12388.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12402.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
也不積極也不用心查到啊 又一樣不做市長 查到叫他退官 查到叫他退官夾架毫無風險 查獲不合格 退官他連成本負擔都沒有 因為他沒有進來沒有進來就是一種負擔連風險 喔 我就夾架 我也敢 因為如果叫你去年會做委喔查到沒辦法可以退官而已啊 不用了解啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12416.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12431.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
好 那我們謝謝林淑芬委員我們處理臨時提案那請衛福部必須加強這個查核的工作剛剛林委員有提出非常多可能有疑慮的廠商可能要加強查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12433.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12447.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
好那我們現在處理臨時提案總共有8案請一併宣讀臨時提案第一案監察院曾於2020年提出調查報告指出目前規定應建立食品追溯系統之業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12449.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12462.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
僅約佔所有食品業者之2%且由許多業者並為依法建立食品追溯追蹤系統經查目前食品藥物管理署提供消費者查詢之食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12464.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12489.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
難以發揮效果．無法保障消費者之飲食安全．原要求行政院食品安全辦公室及衛福部食品藥物管理署．加強食品雲與食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統之互相勾結．並就食品業者落實強制登錄之責任．擬定完善計劃與措施．提案人委員王育敏蘇清泉、盧憲一、陳金輝、圖全吉第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12491.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12511.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
113年食品藥物管理署查獲大量進口中國製辣椒粉含致癌物蘇丹色素3號危害國人食安甚巨有鑒於大宗食品原料使用範圍廣泛於市場擴散速度遠較其他食品更為快速後續查緝更為困難原要求食藥署應針對食品原料提高邊境查驗檢驗率並研擬完善預警機制提高問題食品下架速度 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12519.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12544.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
提案人委員王玉敏、蘇清泉、盧憲一、陳金輝、屠權吉。第三案有鑒於行政院食品安全辦公室自2016年5月20日迄今皆不曾向法務部請調過檢察官人力辦理相關食安黑心茶器作業相比過往法務部高等檢察署曾派駐檢察官至行政院食品安全辦公室負責協調偵辦並直接在食安管理業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12548.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12575.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
應變溝通及稽查取締發揮良好守護國人成果．以凸顯目前行政院食品安全辦公室應積極借盡之需．此特要求行政院食安辦公室現期完成請調檢察官進駐辦公室評估作業．並於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告提案人委員廖偉翔、陳金輝、蘇清泉、王育敏、圖全吉第4案 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12576.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12596.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
有鑒於按最新行政院食安辦公室官網所揭露資訊目前僅有專職人力4員倘若加上兼任主員的員額及借調的3名人員統計人力也才8員相比這出2014年行政院食安辦公室府成立配置20名專職人員相差甚遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12597.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12615.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
原此．要求行政院食安辦公室現期完成人事緣額配置檢討作業．並於一個月內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告．提案人委員廖偉祥、陳金輝、蘇星泉、王育敏、圖全吉第五案．案衛福部官方 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12616.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12624.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
第5案考量官方所掌握的55275公斤含蘇丹紅辣椒粉上與整體108178公斤含蘇丹紅的辣椒食品間有整整52903公斤違法黑素氣精流向不明在欠缺清楚的說明交代之下將嚴重影響我國食品安全並侵損國人生命健康原要求限期於一週內向立法院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12646.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12674.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
提案人委員：廖偉翔、陳金輝、蘇清泉、王育敏、屠村吉。第6案,鑒於中國辣椒粉蘇丹紅案,雖然衛生福利部已禁止中國21家辣椒粉製造商、出口商的辣椒粉梳台,以影響國內食品產業發展,且引發民眾對食的安心,原要求日後只要梳台產品檢出具食品安全疑慮,且視我國環境部以公告之毒性或關注化學物質, |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12675.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12681.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
一律立即禁止出臺提案人委員陳瑩、林月琴、劉建國、黃秀芳、王振旭 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12682.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12696.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
第7案有鑒於臺中市衛生局於113年1月15日抽驗國產臺糖安心豚梅花肉片檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精由於農業部已於109年9月7日依據《動物用藥品管理法》第5條第1項第1款之規定公告以行瘦體數 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12707.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12709.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
為禁止國內製造、調劑、輸入、輸出、販售陳列制藥品加上食藥署已說此次臺堂驗出西部特羅不是實驗室污染因此國外進口豬肉是否含有西部特羅受到外界質疑 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12722.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12743.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
原要求衛生福利部應報行政院食品安全辦公室在未查出台塘西部特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因。完成跨部會調查前以及立法院同意前政府部開放含有瘦肉精豬肉進口提案人委員蘇清泉聯署人委員圖全吉、王育敏、陳金輝 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12745.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12769.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
第8案食藥署提醒人體服用過量的瘦肉精可能會產生中毒症狀醫師蘇一峰補充瘦肉精也是體育禁藥因此運動員、老人、孕婦、幼兒以及心血管及病患者在食用上務必特別留意有鑒於臺中市衛生局於113年1月15日抽驗國產臺唐安心豚梅花肉片 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12770.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12792.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精西部特羅0.002ppm引起社會關注．原要求衛生福利部應全面檢測市售國內外肉品是否除了萊克多巴胺以外上含其他類型之乙型瘦體素瘦肉精提案人委員蘇清泉聯署人委員圖權及陳金輝、王育敏宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12793.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12799.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好 那我們現在來處理這八項臨時提案那請問第一案行政單位跟委員有沒有意見好委員好 我們是有一些文字要修正那第一段的部分第一段就是2%之後的那個我們是不是可以刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12818.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12818.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
食品資訊專櫃 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12848.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12869.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
在第三行的後面那裡就是業者並未及時更新那後面的一個逗點之後的那個難以發揮這個要劃掉劃掉的是難以發揮食品追溯追蹤之效果這也劃掉然後後面是無法及時提供產品資訊與消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12873.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12899.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
什麼就是從那個更新之後的我把它念一下更新之後業者並未及時更新無法及時提供產品資訊於消費者於消費者給消費者與消費者對還有呢那到第三段這裡第三段這裡是第二行在追溯追蹤管理資訊系統我們就加一個食品資訊專櫃 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12902.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12906.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
加食品資訊專櫃之互相勾結並舊改成並輔導食品業者提高產品資訊揭露之意願並擬定輔導計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12920.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12945.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
是意願啊?你的意思是就是用尊重的方式嗎?剛剛林淑芬委員也有問這個啊?這是業者他們自己...所以你現在沒有任何強制性就是了?要登錄不登錄?對,這個專櫃是這樣,但是我們的追溯追蹤系統那個就是屬於強制的那這邊專櫃是屬於業者自己上去登錄的你是說專櫃這邊就只能用輔導不能用強制目前現行是這樣是不是?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12946.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12969.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
好 那就修正通過 來 第二案謝謝 好 那第二案7、8先是不是 你要趕車好 來 那接下來7、8我們蘇委員因為因為他比較 路途比較遙遠我們先處理一下好 那第7案這裡第7案這裡有修改一些文字那在1、2、3、4、5、6第6行 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12973.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12984.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
第6行最後那裡寫不是實驗室污染這個改為為個案事件為個案事件那另外在後面這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12986.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13008.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
從因此開始,因此開始這裡,到最後這裡,像那個萊克多巴胺的西布特羅的這個毒性這個,台大的賴秀穗教授已經澄清過了,當時他因為在外面,所以他沒有聽得很清楚,他以為是另外一項的乙型受體數,所以他 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13009.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13029.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
後來澄清說希伯特羅的其實目前大家都還不是有很清楚的研究那大概比較證實的是只有過敏的相關的一些作用那是不是我們這裡就把污染為個案事件就是本來實驗室污染這個改為為個案事件那在後面這一段就通通都刪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13032.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13054.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以其實食藥署也認為這是個案事件,不是定調說實驗室污染,你們沒有這樣講嗎?對不對?因為我們現在沒有任何證據證明是實驗室污染嘛,對不對?就是沒有辦法排除,但是因為大家找不到原因對啊,所以找不到原因就要說找不到原因,我覺得很大膽去說實驗室污染這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13055.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13059.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
第二段這裡是原提案要求衛福部然後頓浩農業部及行政院食品安全辦公室那逗點之後應積極調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13085.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13106.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
臺堂西部特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因那後面的就再就據點後面就後面而逗點對不起逗點然後並盡速對外說明其他的就劃掉這樣書員可以嗎好可以同意那就按剛剛文字修正通過來第8好第8 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13108.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13133.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
第8的第二段,第二段這裡,第二段這裡我們是原提案要求衛福部因後面的話調,那我們剛剛有跟委員提過文字的修正是因提案要求衛福部因持續強化抽驗、市售國內外豬肉產品檢驗已行受體述括號含西部特羅 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13139.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13149.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
對對對對我們現在的法定方法就是21項以行授提訴可以齁所以好那就按呃這個剛消暑的修正文字通過來接下來第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13150.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13154.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
請食藥署依食安法對於輸入之不合格產品情況較嚴重者多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13177.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13188.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
依舊該地區之其他製造商輸入相同產品都好採取加速提升邊境查驗強度那後面那個呢就是你們的預警機制呢去提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13201.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13227.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
問題食品下架的速度這次蘇丹紅其實剛剛委員都在講你們那個速度其實還蠻緩慢的就從去年第一例開始出現的時候那個的示警看起來並沒有讓所有的這個後市場或者是地方政府全面警醒這個可能要非常加強重點查緝啊所以這個提案還有後端的這個目的那那個都保留好了好不好後段文字你們還是保留好 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13229.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13255.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
好 那就按照這個剛剛的修正通過 來 第三案報告召委 第三案行政單位沒意見沒意見齁 好 通過 謝謝 來 第四案那個第四案剛剛有先跟廖委員有先討論過那個有關於食安辦的人力第二行建議刪除專職人力四個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13257.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13279.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
就是目前僅有4員然後並等等等都沒改然後到第4行的3名人員分號對 候號加共計8人然後那個下一句總計人力也才8員到相比劃掉然後下一句是最初 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13281.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13301.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
2014年行政院食安辦公室府成立這幾個字還在但是從配置20名專職人員這邊要修正因為我們其實當時的院內專職4人到現在都是一樣都沒變當時也沒有20人是從各部會調進來所以這樣寫是不對剛有跟委員說明過 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13305.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13315.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
所以這邊府成立之後改成由相關部會及院內人員支援不同那 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13319.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13347.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
然後再來是原此特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成人事原額從中間的那一邊都劃掉一直到原此然後配額原額配置本來是檢討作業那這個檢討改成評估作業然後並於本來寫一個月內向本院社會福利及 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13348.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13351.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
衛生環境委員會一個月改成三個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13361.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13383.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
好第5案剛剛也跟廖委員有溝通過那第二段的部分有一些數據其實目前不是很清楚所以那些數據有劃掉所以我念一下是以考量官方所掌握那後面的數據就劃掉含蘇丹紅辣椒粉流向 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13385.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13410.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
不明將嚴重影響我國食品安全然後這中間的就是劃掉了齁並清損這個劃掉原要求限期一週內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告好可以齁好謝謝那則案修正通過來第6案好第6案照案辦理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13418.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13427.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
主席宣告我們中午就不休息我們就持續進行巡打那大家便當已經發到桌上大家可以自行用便當那接下來我們請陳雪生委員進行巡打好謝謝主席是不是請薛部長好我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13444.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13472.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
部長午安我就接續上個禮拜五總諮詢的時候這個諮詢到部裡面是不是要把馬祖縣的醫院改為部立醫院有沒有這回事我非常嚴重不是非常嚴肅的請教部長這一個部分的話我們其實有跟地方政府那邊詢問過他們的意願跟地方政府的誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13474.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13500.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
是誰跟誰對口、接口?因為我們主要可能是去接觸的人是在衣服會啦我再次查證,縣長沒有?副縣長沒有?衛生局沒有?縣立醫院院長沒有?你是跟哪個科研還是跟哪個公友在對口?我這部分的話我再確認一下好,那麼有個廣告齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13502.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13521.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
是民進黨連江縣黨部主任委員李問他說他去見過王必勝次長王次長答應他把連江縣立醫院改為部立醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13523.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13550.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
部長我向你求證有沒有這回事沒有那次長有事要不要跟你報告對至少我這邊沒有接收到這個訊息縣立醫院改為部立醫院這是政策喔對這不是事務性的事情喔對次長沒有這個權限嗎應該如果真的有這樣的政策應該是會到我這邊來我以後來做決定這個一定是經過部裡面的署去研議嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13552.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13560.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
也有很多事情在裡面喔這裡人事、經費、土地、面積、認免、簽調是不是還有裡面的設備簽設很廣那麼研究好以後由署裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13569.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13597.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
然後次長跟部長報告,部長可能還沒那個權喔還需要報告到行政院有關於人力有關於預算還有財政部還有行政院主計處還有行政院人事總署部長是不是這樣?是所以我今天向你求證,沒有這個事情嗎?目前還沒有討論到這個事情那有沒有可能?如果有的話更好啊如果連江縣立議院能夠成為部立議院的話不管如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13599.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13621.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
心臟內科、心臟外科、神經內科、神經外科那這裡面土地的面積由原來的軍醫院就跟金門一樣金門縣在花崗石醫院跟金門縣合併以後金門縣立醫院可以改為衛生所啊是不是?然後他可以跟農民總醫院去合嘛,你們部立醫院有醫生可以派出嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13623.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13650.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以說這個部分其實是牽涉是蠻廣的啦所以沒有辦法這樣子沒有經過很詳細的評估同意也是一樣嘛是不是尤其我們前兩任的縣長都是醫學院出來的都醫學院出來的喔他們也是搞公衛的啊也是陳建仁院長的學生指導教授研究所的指導教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13651.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13678.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
都很清楚嘛馬祖人口一萬多人,金門十萬人,澎湖十五萬人因為他現在的人口土地面積都不一樣嘛是不是所以他這裡面的結構已經行之有年了那麼卻由一個人不在馬祖心不在馬祖戶口在馬祖的人在那邊很像說這是我執政黨的資源我執政黨的優勢然後在那邊亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13681.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13692.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
不好吧所以那時候因為在選舉期間我也沒有去向衛福部去求證這個事情所以今天藉這個機會因為我這個人也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13694.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13711.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
很大量的人我不是那麼小氣我沒有那麼小氣而且從事醫療的服務我不是醫生但是我協助很多的病人馬祖尤其那麼遠的地方來這邊我都可以相當的協助我不是醫生但是我對 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13713.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13735.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
醫療的需求我是非常清楚的我是非常清楚的所以謝謝部長在這邊我向你求證不過有機會能夠把馬祖成為部立醫院我們的縣立醫院變成衛生所然後把我們的軍醫院能夠擴大變成部立醫院能夠跟金門一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13736.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13759.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
因為他們的訴求是講說像金門你看成立部立醫院以後那邊的病人不要後送到台灣來據我瞭解每個月西腰山洞的飛機用單架送過來的40幾個人40幾個人也不是說成立部立醫院以後就在金門做外科手術就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13760.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13788.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
一樣送來台灣做外科手術啊因為這個外科手術要很多橫向的互相的醫療的支援嘛部長是不是這樣不是說單一力量可以完成的你再有名的醫生到了金門到了澎湖你沒有他的協力醫院協力的醫生來協力麻醉科啊等等心臟科啊這些等等沒有協助他他一樣無法完成重大的手術嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13789.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13803.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
部長是不是這樣子?是,沒有錯那我想部長是不是有機會回去啊?有機會的話,如果馬祖能夠成立部立醫院,我也希望部長能夠成全還是要評估啦是的,因為現在縣立醫院很多的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13804.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13830.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們地方政府要出錢那我們的地方政府你曉得大概跟澎湖的財力差不多基本上因為有酒可以賣賺了一點錢我所以謝謝部長過去對我們馬祖醫療的支援跟協助還補助我們一些醫療的設備我想部長在這一個方面能夠允諾我繼續給馬祖這方面醫療的支援好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13831.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13842.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這部分的話,我們一定是盡量來支持是,謝謝部長也謝謝署裡面的長官部裡面的長官也謝謝主席,謝謝我們謝謝陳雪生委員關心馬祖地區的醫療問題那接下來我們請洪孟楷委員進行質詢主席謝謝,麻煩請薛部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13869.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13880.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
蘇丹紅事件,尤其是蘇丹紅現在變成是說不只是一開始傳出來說有可能加在豬肉乾、餅乾甚至連知名火鍋店都有大家有可能都已經吃下肚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13881.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13898.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那我們現在想請教一下你的報告裡面也寫到是說從去年就已經開始檢驗那並且有在去年的12月11號有百分之百的逐批查驗查驗合格才使得輸入那為什麼還是國人還看到是說還是現在有這樣子四散在民生賣場 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13899.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13902.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所以你現在講是說現在這一些流竄在市面的都是去年12月以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13920.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13929.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
目前就是我們正在追查的我們正在追查的也就是說這一些漏網之魚的話我們就一個一個要去追究到底現在我們有沒有掌握多少的量已經進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13946.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13974.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
這個量的話可能我還要再算一下我們今天討論了半天然後你今天也告訴大家說食安蘇丹紅事件的檢討報告調查然後結果到目前我們國人就最關心嘛你告訴我們說12月11號百分之百逐批檢驗所以換言之12月11號你們才講到是說要百分之百逐批檢驗但你從什麼時候開始你從2022年邊境就已經開始有高比例的不合格 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13975.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14001.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
五萬多公斤不合格然後結果你一年多之後到2023年的12月才用百分之百竹皮檢驗換言之你從2022年到2023年一年多的時間都還是有漏網之魚那現在不只豬肉乾不只餅乾然後知名火鍋店冬天到了說不定在場很多人都吃了火鍋 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14003.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14023.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
跟委員報告2022那時候在檢測的時候大部分都屬於農藥不合格並沒有說去檢測到有蘇丹紅是到2023年才開始有出現蘇丹紅的檢測的一個結果出來那我跟委員報告部長你要不要看一下你今天的報告怎麼寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14026.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14042.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
邊境全面逐批查驗111年就是2022年抽驗9批5萬多公斤不合格檢驗蘇丹紅色素這是你自己的報告啊結果你現在告訴我們說不是你自己說自己說不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14047.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14068.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
比較簡單的來部長因為今天我有兩個議題要請教你那我想蘇丹紅事件已經剛剛很多委員都已經問過了我也看到你現在要列為高風險稽查其實我本身很好奇啊百分之百的逐批查驗照理講就是最高等級百分之百然後你現在還說什麼高風險稽查玩文字遊戲是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14069.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14071.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
本期真的不希望說只是玩文字遊戲而是說看到實際的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14099.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14115.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那是不是確認一下剛剛本席問的就是說到底這段時間有多少可能已經流入市面被國人消費被國人食用了這一些量能不能給本席在今天下班前給我一個答覆那我們把這一個數字再給委員今天下班前請給本席一個答覆再來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14116.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14121.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
本席從去年就已經有要求就是針對醫院病床數的一個檢討就所謂的醫療次分區的一個狀況我找到去年的新聞3月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14134.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14151.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
當時有講說衛福部的這個署長也來本席辦公室跟本席這邊討論講說一年內會針對全國醫療次分區進行全重新規劃包括說重點地區臺北市、新北市、嘉義縣市等重點優先送衛福部的一個審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14153.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14177.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那我想請教現在進度在哪裡這個要召開醫審會來做最後的一個確認去年已經有講本期也在總質詢的時候有詢問當時的行政院長當時您也在旁嘛那時候我講是說因為我們的北海岸地區包括淡水、山芝、石門等北海岸地區醫療是受到限制的那一直沒有辦法爭取大型醫療院所最主要是病床數受限 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14177.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14201.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那我們的醫療四分區是跟臺北市的士林北投劃在一起也因此臺北市的大型醫療院所已經把我們的病床數給吃掉了那現在要檢討脫鉤啊那當時的署長也來本席辦公室講說不只是新北臺北有這樣的問題包括嘉義縣市更明顯你們在去年11月的時候衛環委員會還有去嘉義縣市做實地考察也有講到這個問題嘛那現在請教一年過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14205.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14225.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
很快喔這個處理的速度我在跟委員,會後我們再跟委員報告有沒有在進行?有在進行那什麼時候能夠有一個明確的答覆?應該會需要開一次一審會啦一審會,但是在一審會之前的話可能需要先跟地方政府那邊確認說他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14228.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14229.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
部長,什麼時候能做到? |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14250.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14263.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
我想一審會我的理解應該這個月或下個月就會開啦四月底以前會開今天是三月初嘛這個月或下個月一審會會開會討論到醫療次分區對要不要確認一下你現在講出來可能又會變是一個媒體的標題喔好 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14276.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14300.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
這部分的話我想就是說我們盡速啦我希望是在4月之前的話希望4月之前兩個月內部長你不可以說520不一定在那你當一天和尚敲一天鐘嘛你就是要做嘛那還有這種帶退老兵心態嘛在那個之前我就把這個事情處理好520之前把這件事情給處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14301.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14302.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
接下來我們請謝依鳳委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14340.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14343.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
謝謝主席。我想要請薛部長。從剛才大家的質詢,其實我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14354.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14379.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那即便是現在我們想要擴大邊境檢驗那我們的人力到底是否足夠那未來這樣子的事件今天只是蘇丹紅而已那未來就是說在食安方面我們的邊境檢驗的人力不夠的情況下那有沒有辦法遏止就是所有就是這些影響食品添加重大的這些元素的進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14381.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14393.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
其實我們也不可能所有的食品進口的部分的話通通要非常高的一個比例的一個檢驗所以重點是第一個要把風險分級把這個風險分級做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14398.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14409.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你也說檢驗人力不夠,那你們是要增加檢驗的人力嗎?當然在人力的部分,我們是希望能夠增加人力,但是要跟行政院那邊來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14411.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14434.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那還有其實我們知道食安五環裡面地方政府也是重要的一環那你們跟地方政府的合作就是如果都是劍拔弩張的時候尤其是在查驗到如此重大影響食安問題的情況下那到底地方政府他們因應的措施如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14435.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14463.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那是不是應該也給就是說所有的地方政府知道我覺得不要分藍綠同樣都是同樣的同等的這樣子的因為你們檢驗的實驗室檢驗的量能都是同樣的嘛是不是那在同樣的情況下那是不是應該立即反映未來處理程序的SOP是如何是不是給所有的民眾以及所有地方政府我們一套共同的檢驗標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14465.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14484.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這一個部分的話其實我已經有責成食藥署在這個部分的話那我們會再召集各個縣市的這個檢驗單位那一起來處理這個問題我們要把那個SOB弄好了因為這一次其實其實我們跟地方的合作一直都非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14484.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14498.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
只是說這一次因為臺中實驗室的西部特樓這個事件雙方有稍微有一點點緊張的關係但是這裡面的話其實有一些SOP必須要把它處理好了因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14500.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14520.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
在這過去當中老實講並沒有那你們現在處理好了沒有沒有辦法給大家一個清楚的交代因為如果啦說實在就在實驗室發現這個情況下怎麼樣子做垂直檢驗水平檢驗這就是給一個民眾一個清白嘛不要大家對於食用豬肉有疑慮嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14520.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14546.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那大家也知道怎麼樣挑選安全的豬肉嘛這都是民眾想知道這才是真正保護食安的做法那我再問一個就是現在我們的那個醫學中心那你北部多了三家那你是不是排擠到了中南部的醫療職員那個健保的分配是如何分配那我看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14548.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14577.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
新竹的臺大新竹分院它即便升了醫學中心之後它的掛號費也沒有升反降那為什麼其他地區的這個掛號費到底標準是什麼為什麼是標準不一掛號費的部分的話在從很久很久以前的話我們都已經是變為它是一個行政的費用是收到你們健保局沒有沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14577.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14593.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
叫做醫院收的因為它是醫院裡面的行政費用不是屬於醫療費用所以原則上並不受政府機關的管制但是我們會要求每一家醫療院所 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14594.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14594.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14609.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14630.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
健保的支援也影響到醫師選擇科別其實我們看到最近最明顯的我們中部的兒童醫院尤其是發生了一些重大的意外的事故以後發現兒童醫院的醫師比例專科醫師比例偏低 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14632.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14651.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我亦同胞了解了我們四大皆空的所謂的內科外科等等的醫師都偏低那未來這個情況怎麼解決我們當然不想要像南韓一樣其實醫生就是全台灣可能沒有缺醫師但是怎麼樣子在 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14652.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14672.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
尊重他們的自由意識下,怎麼樣子把他導向這個缺的專科醫師缺的科別,你們未來的規劃如何?這個部分我還跟你們報告,因為少子化的關係,所以這個兒科的病人是人數是減少了,所以兒科醫師會覺得他們沒有什麼樣的前景 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14673.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14686.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那目前我們有推出一個優化兒童醫療照護的計畫,這裡面的話就會對於一些兒科的這個住院醫師在接受這個訓練的專科醫師訓練的這些住院醫師,會給他薪資的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14691.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14717.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那其他缺的部分呢因為現在兒科缺最多啦其他像說婦產科目前招生的情況還好那外科也還好內科的話因為他是大內科去算所以看起來好像有一些是沒有收滿但是有一些其實是競爭也蠻激烈的所以內科還要進一步去做分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14718.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14742.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
那兒科的部分目前所知大概是情況是比較慘的所以我們針對兒科先做處理所以你們會先針對兒科先做處理那至於健保的就是醫療資源怎麼樣子不讓所有的醫療資源都集中在北部而應該對於中南部的就是偏鄉的醫療也有相關的照護我覺得這也是非常重要的是不是對 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14743.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14744.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
這是目前正在改善當中好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14774.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14777.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
馬文君、馬文君、馬文君委員不在李燕秀、李燕秀、李燕秀委員不在游皓、游皓、游皓委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14796.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14796.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
接下來我們請陳瑩委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14838.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14838.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14846.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14871.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
部長好依照現行的規定那個輸入一般食品不需要先做預先做審查但是輸入這個錠狀還有膠囊狀的食品就要先向食藥署辦理這個查驗登記那個什麼健康食品健康食品一般的食品那但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14873.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14900.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
就是說剛剛講就是說這個輸入那個定狀跟膠囊狀的食品就要先向食藥署來辦理這個查驗登記嘛那主要這個部分是依據這個食安法第21條的規定也是為了確保就是說這一類的食品以及這個食品的原料跟這個食品添加物符合我國的規定然後來保障我們國人的健康嘛主要是為了這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14901.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14929.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
但是呢我們現在去看這個蝦皮上面有一堆代購或者是平行輸入的賣家他是沒有經過這個查驗登記就在上面販售定狀膠囊狀的食品更誇張的是有業者呢他們發現說他們準備進行查驗登記的產品那如果依國內相關規定他的食品原料還有添加物是需要做調整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14929.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14929.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
請勿模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14955.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14972.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
應該要下架這些沒有經過茶葉登記的產品那避免說這個網路購物成為就是說我們食安上的另外一個破口那我們也要保障國人的健康以及這個合法進口代理商的這個權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14975.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15002.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
實要署表示有些狀況是賣家在網路平台架設廣告消費者下訂之後商品是從國外再寄到台灣來因為法規沒有禁止自用輸入所以很難證明這個部分是個人要使用的還是說代購自己代進台灣之後在網路上違法販售的 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15003.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15027.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那這些廣告因為它也沒有中文標示所以明顯違反食安法那代理商可以就沒有中文標示的部分進行檢舉那在這個衛福部公告的這個錠狀、膠囊狀的食品因依法辦理查驗登記那當然剛剛講過目的也是為了我們國人的健康那但是面對說目前我們蝦皮、臉書還有LINE這些販售的錠狀、膠囊狀的食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15031.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15036.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
食藥署卻很難說去證明是自用還是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15039.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15062.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
剛剛就後來就是建議說用這個建議這個合法的代理商以標示不符規定來進行檢舉本期是認為說這樣的方式是一個比較消極的這個做法啦好那我是不認不太認同這樣那也是希望而且是在去年預算審查的時候我也有提案要求食藥署針對這個部分進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15064.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15064.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
請署長先回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15089.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15106.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
委員好 針對這個部分其實我們一直都跟平台在溝通我們希望平台也幫我們把關就是說當他這些產品要上架的話他要看到他其實已經經過我們查驗登記不過有時候有些平台並沒有那麼配合這個確實是還需要再 我們再找他們來開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15108.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15127.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
所以如果這些平台不配合的時候食藥署有什麼更積極的方式嗎?根本報告其實是這樣子平台的管理是一件事情因為它是涉及到就是資訊提供跟廣告的問題但是不管怎麼樣最後會有真實的實際的貨品會進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15131.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15145.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
對所以這些沒有經過查案登記的剛剛我提到這類的食品的話那事實上他一旦提供就就是已經違法那我是認為因為在在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15147.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15164.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
平台處理一定有困難度有些架設在國外我們也沒有辦法直接從那邊去做取締如果是在國內我們倒是可以要求他下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15165.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15193.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
但是不管怎麼樣這種違規的產品如果到了消費者的手裡的話其實就很容易會造成傷害所以我們是希望我們會要求食藥署這邊就提高檢舉因為一定是內部人才容易找得到說他問題比較容易能夠掌握說他這些商品到底跑到哪裡去 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15195.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15208.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
主要這個不管是檢舉查緝這個我想這個比重專注度我都希望我們在這個過去比較難抓到的這些我們要加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15212.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15230.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
過去監察委員林國明以及王立正委員他們在2021年10月有針對違法廣告產品不斷危害國人健康及消費者權益有糾正衛福部面對監察院的糾正食藥署分別在2022年8月和2024年1月 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15233.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15256.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
有修正的這個食品安全衛生管理法第45條規定廣告處理原則那希望透過這個加權的事項加重這個採取的力道嚇阻違規食品的廣告那現在的問題是在於就是說網路媒體他是非常快速的蓬勃發展那就像我剛剛先前有針對這個衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15258.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15281.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
應該是說上一屆本席也針對衛福部官員肖像被盜用的違規藥品廣告那我也質詢了幾次那最後衛福部也只能就是說很無奈表示說這些廣告IP位置都在國外查不到、發不到那無法要求下架來回應我們那所以我想要請教部長如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15282.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15303.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
食藥署的這個加權事項加重採取的力道到最後都只能罰到廣播電視還有這個購物頻道的這些等等的媒體那這是不是變相我們有在鼓勵說業者以後都用國外的IP位置來做廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15304.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15328.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
因為那個罰到的都是在國內有繳稅的嘛那反而在國外這些違法的罰不到以後大家都倒掉了業績不好然後都跑到國外去國外的這些產品的話他要送到國內給個別的消費者的時候他一定會中間有一個中間商因為他不太可能說直接從國外然後經由這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15330.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15354.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
物流然後就直接送到那個消費者所以通常他會有一個中間的儲存的一個地方也就是說會有一家公司在處理這個事件所以我剛剛提到的就是我們希望就是說經由這個檢舉然後來做去查獲這樣子那就可以找得到因為這些實際上的商品是實際存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15355.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15381.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
一旦讓我們破獲破獲之後的話那在處罰上面的話是蠻重的就剛剛委員提到的所以因為主要是這個監察院這個檢舉其實他也有提到就是說國內各類新興媒體持續蓬勃發展那違規食品廣告手法不斷翻新以佔各媒體廣告的這個總違規件數近六成之網站食品廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15383.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15406.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
監控強度卻不及廣播、電視等傳統媒體所以我剛剛也點出這個問題啊那所以就是說針對這些新興的媒體那特別是IP位置在國外的部分那剛剛部長有特別講我們就是加強這個檢舉的部分那我也希望這些專漏洞的這些國外在IP我們是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15407.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15430.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
可以就是說我也希望當然你們人力有限我也了解但是我希望說是不是我們可以就大家專注在這個部分因為確實現在大家都上蝦皮去看我覺得這些問題是比我們這個國內容易抓到這個要難度高一點但也比較嚴重啦所以我在這邊特別點出這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15432.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15458.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以我們的意思就是說不要太過執著在那個要去查廣告而是必須要查實體實體的東西查才比較有機會去查得到那這個如果透過這個檢舉讓我們查到我們可以把這些處罰的這個金額的話的一部分都要當成這個檢舉獎金那這樣子的檢舉獎金的額度就會很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15460.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15479.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
可以來鼓勵民眾來做檢舉好那謝謝部長的回應那我們也給食藥署加油啦大家辛苦那希望說我提的這個專注在可以更專注在這邊好謝謝好謝謝陳穎委員的質詢接下來我們請王洪威委員進行質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15494.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15498.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
好,謝謝主席。我請薛部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15508.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15531.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
今天我們的專案報告是針對蘇丹紅蔓延全台以目前我們所掌握到的相關的資訊整個的狀況是不是已經獲得控制還是說整個含有這個違規的這個蘇丹紅的這些添加的這些相關的食品或者進口公司還會再繼續擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15533.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15554.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
這部分的話其實是我們循線往下再去這個追查的時候那我們是不是說一旦是那家公司進來那我沒有我這個我都想現在你們所掌握到現在能不能敢確定他不會再擴大還是說不敢確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15554.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15555.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
蘇丹紅事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15583.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15600.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
請問部長這個是個案呢還是系統性的事件他是系統性的事件承認是系統性事件所以因此你們也在邊境的管制的部分是非常快速的去修改了食品輸入的查驗辦法對不對所以只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15601.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15601.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
蘇丹紅事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15620.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15641.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那我想請問,我們食安,我們以後都是採降SOP嗎?要看它的風險,產品的風險,風險高的就需要這樣子所以按照這樣的一個,我們當我們要把食安的漏洞,能夠快速的去掌控的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15642.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15654.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
立刻查驗到立刻採取動作其實就是SOP嗎好所以我們就回到來下一頁那我們再看這個這個視頻很多好 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15655.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15678.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
也就是在台糖瘦肉精的部分這個當然討論非常非常多次那麼我們陳建仁院長特別提到的是你瘦肉精沒有給台糖15天的復驗的時間那同樣蘇丹紅我們現在修改相關辦法業者也可以跟你講說你怎麼沒有給我復驗時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15680.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15708.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
是不是所以如果現在是對的那麼之前在瘦肉精的部分院長講說你要給台堂15天申請復驗啊怎麼立刻就公佈了那這樣的程序不就是錯的了嗎跟委員報告這15天可以來申請復驗這是在法律的一個規定的所以不管是瘦肉精還是蘇丹紅蘇丹紅同樣這一個廠商也可以來申請復驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15710.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15723.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
可是他立刻要停止進口喔?你有採取立即措施嗎?採取立即措施是為了安全預防的起見但是他是可以申請復驗申請復驗的時候他就需要有樣本可以讓他來復驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15726.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15731.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
所以我現在問你的是按照蘇丹紅這個狀況任何公司你被驗出之後雲林縣政府驗出立刻發布對不對這個是本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15751.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15756.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
發佈不發佈是由這個地方政府．對嘛．所以因為縣政府很正確嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15757.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15782.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
我們沒有說他不正確我們只是說他應該要小心我們說他應該要小心因為第一次驗到那種部長因為我也不想耽誤其他我們委員質詢的時間我的要我的要點就是食安問題不要因為政治性考量給他雙標你看我這兩個你台中市政府立刻發布預警你們覺得他有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15783.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15810.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
雲林縣政府你覺得他沒有問題對不對因為狀況有點不太一樣收入金這一個部分的話是第一個驗到的是一個從來沒有驗到過的東西而且國內並沒有直接有進口只有在實驗室的那第二個就是當你驗到的時候你要對外公佈是後面還有一系列的事情要做你不是雲林縣政府也是驗出立刻發布嗎你們為了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15812.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15826.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
不要因為為了要對付台中市政府而破壞了SOP而犧牲食安而也不要讓未來的縣市政府以後碰到這些問題都要猶豫不決 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15830.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15852.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
跟委員報告雲林那邊其實它也有驗產品然後又驗原料所以它最後向上風暴的時候是2月6號但是其實檢舉的話是1月8號而這個1月19號雲林衛生局就去檢查人家台中市政府之前也驗了很多次但是狀況不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15854.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15855.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
我們謝謝王宏威委員進行的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15876.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15895.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在麥玉珍、麥玉珍、麥玉珍委員不在邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在何新成、何新成、何新成委員不在張家俊、張家俊、張家俊委員不在黃建豪、黃建豪、黃建豪委員不在黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15913.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15941.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
謝謝主席來有請部長好請部長委員好部長好剛剛部長在回答其他委員質詢的時候已經講得很清楚了蘇丹紅的事件是一個系統性的問題嗎對這不是個案嗎不是那這個系統性的問題什麼時候發生的其實是它是逐漸的那個什麼時候再去什麼時候你們認為是一個系統性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15943.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15957.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這個是從大約是去年啦 去年的時候對 什麼時候你們認為它是系統性的問題應該是說從5月拉 我們 去年5月從去年5月我們就對 什麼時候你們認為它是一個系統性的問題 這問題有這麼難回答嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15959.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15975.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
去年5月我們就開始有加強抽批嘛所以我們懷疑它是一個系統性的問題那什麼時候懷疑陳真?什麼時候從你們懷疑認為它是一個系統性的問題是到今天才這樣認定嗎?當然不是啊那是什麼時候? |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15977.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15981.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
為什麼當初行政院院長陳建仁在提台灣食安報告總檢討專案報告的時候蘇丹紅三個字半個字都沒寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15993.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16019.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
所以那個時候還沒有認為是系統性現在才認為是系統性嗎好啦沒有關係啦我直接進入今天的問題啦齁有兩家高雄的廠商一個是金站國際一個是加廣從你們的新聞稿說驗出7批蘇丹紅辣椒粉嘛那他們進口的數量也不少那從你們7批驗出來的你們跟社會大眾講的下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16021.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16040.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
你們說保存期限到什麼時候他是什麼時候輸入的這個資訊的是不是能夠做得好一點他什麼時候輸入的我不care他的保存期限到什麼時候他已經被封了嘛他已經被查扣了嘛不能用嘛那你跟我講他什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16043.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16049.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我關心的事情是他什麼時候輸入的?最後一批到什麼時候?12月4號那不對啊!12月不是百分之百除批抽驗怎麼還進得來? |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16064.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16078.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
12月11才開始辦所以剛好在他逐批抽驗以前陸陸續續就進來了嘛是嗎部長你可以承諾我一件事這種跟食安攸關的事情我們基本上面的資訊透明把它做好可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16079.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16103.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
當然是可以可以嗎 什麼時候輸入的請你們清楚的公告因為我們其實很關心的是什麼在關心的是在查核的時候不僅僅是我們的查核人員很辛苦我們也很關心這是不是一個不孝廠商我為什麼說我們也很關心這是不是一個不孝廠商來下一頁去年你們說你們5月開始嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16105.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16119.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
5月開始查高雄市衛生局抽驗全數合格我看一下那合格的名單下一頁我赫然發現啊這個金站啊加廣啊去年5月抽驗全數合格欸部長這件事情你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16124.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16149.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
可能是剛好沒有抽到啦對啊 這個問題就來了嘛 好他去年五院抽全部都合格他是不是心存僥倖覺得說 哇 厚嘎仔我抽全部都合格結果被抽全部都合格了以後繼續進 繼續進 繼續進進到你12月主批查驗為止他不斷的在進這個有讀蘇丹紅的辣椒粉 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16151.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16180.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
部長你的觀察呢這當然齁就是找出這一個查驗的抽批的漏洞齁那廠商好來我現在的問題就來了齁你們2023年5月要加強抽驗以前你們為什麼要大剌剌的跟全部的廠商講說我要加強抽驗了是要通知他說欸大家小心喔大家注意喔現在要加強抽驗喔你如果是加廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16181.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16210.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
那兩那其實他是兩家公司但是我相信部長很清楚啦住址登記在從一個地方負責人應該是清晰啦實際上就是一家公司啦你們一發公告了以後他馬上收到通知說喔接下來要小心了所以接下來抽煙都抽煙不到嘛等到高雄市衛生局公告全部合格上面還有他們的名字的時候就開始什麼死命拼命的進 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16212.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16240.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
部長我對於他們這個二職的廠商剛剛這樣子行為的描述你認不認同這是有可能是好到目前為止我們對這兩家二職的廠商雖然實質上一家形式上兩家嘛做了什麼處罰這兩家是已經有移送了有發劃嗎目前的話是移送那個地檢署的側班有發劃嗎目前還沒有有勒令停業先業嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16242.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16270.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
食品安全衛生法裡面有的行政法上的效果我相信部長很清楚啦部長行政法的專家阿為什麼不罰阿為什麼不採取強制的行政處分的效果阿就移送嗎這樣可以嗎這兩家公司有什麼特殊的背景嗎應該是沒有嘛這麼可惡只要鼠仙大剌剌的通知他們公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16271.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16286.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
然後趕快結果抽驗高雄市衛生局抽驗全部合格然後一公告了以後死命拼命的進等到現在才查驗出來結果還沒有裁罰欸這兩家公司是有什麼背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16287.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16291.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
我剛已經把他二指的行為描述的很清楚了嘛事情風波都已經到現在結果有裁罰只有新北市欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16308.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16333.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
阿高雄那兩家就放他過?這樣對嗎?不會放他過啦對嘛 但是到目前我質詢為止還沒有對他怎麼樣嘛所以我們會督促地方政府來做採取啦OK 我們希望齁 盡快針對資訊公開的部分該處理的部分衛福部趕快印起來讓全國消費大眾看到我們衛福部保護食安的決心這樣好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16337.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16344.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
好 我們謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接下來我們請楊瓊英委員進行質詢謝謝主席 本席想邀請部長好來我們請部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16367.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16380.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
蘇丹紅的毒辣椒粉風暴持續在增加我們看到從去年的5月到9月到12月本市長首先請問我們部裡頭的作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16382.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16384.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
部長你談到這個本期說去年五月、九月、十二月 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16403.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16429.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
一直持續在擴大好像沒中央的事我們看到5月份的時候你公布了有4批有問題的檢驗出來所以你從20%提來50%去年9月份哇又趕快又又是擴大依舊所以你還是維持在50%你一直到了12月才改為100%逐批來檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16434.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16451.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
請教有多少都已經流到市面上?吃了身體會怎麼樣?我必須要說明一下這個4P有檢驗出來的時候我們就把它提升到50%就如同你這邊講但是在後來的話在提高的部分的話其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16455.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16470.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
因為食藥署在事件發生的時候他告訴大家說呼籲業主你要自行去送驗那我們中央在做什麼沒有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16471.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16491.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那我們中央在做什麼自行送宴是另外一件事自行送宴本來就要自行送宴啊還要你政府去呼籲嗎你政府發現這麼嚴肅的議題已經一直在擴大那你應該要有所作為啊是所以我們就是會會同地方政府來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16493.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16510.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
署長你又說我要會同地方政府那如果是如此你政府你中央政府兩手一攤把所有的責任都推給地方政府推給業者那你有符合食安的五環精神嗎已經一直在擴大你食藥署還不拉緊腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16511.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16525.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
因為在國內的後市場的一個抽檢的話是由這一個地方政府跟中央合作的所以這次大家一起來...部長你就說就重點了啦就講到重點了我們似乎發現現在發現問題的都是民眾去檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16530.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16550.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
然後呢地方政府去查緝發現了問題顯現出這個問題那這個邏輯我覺得我們的中央政府必須啊打官似乎是失靈囉你必須要去加緊腳步所以我們看到從爆出了這個美豬混沖高價的羊肉對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16551.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16566.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
接下來又驗出了豬肉瘦肉精到現在還不清不楚接下來又有蘇丹紅之亂都是民眾來檢舉地方政府查緝、稽查、驗出那中央的作為在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16568.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16590.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
這是本來就有一些分工在邊境的話是我們負責的所以邊境那邊查出來那邊境都有這麼準嗎?都查不到嗎?都要入境之後才會嗎?所以部長你們衛福部耗資的巨資啊你們借鑒這個本行全力支持但是我要看成效啊你們的食品雲 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16592.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16617.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
那食品雲如果我們耗資了這麼多的錢去成立食品雲來間接各部會的資料食品追蹤的系統那還發生了這麼重大的事情一報再報而且擴大報那食品雲的成效到底在哪裡請做說明這部分的話其實是食品雲的話他是在做追蹤追溯的對啊你有沒有預警啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16619.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16629.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
預警是另外一個事情就是說我們必須要建立預警的一些條件什麼樣的是屬於高危險這個部分當然我們會持續而且會加強來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16635.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16658.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
但是在剛剛講的食品的部分主要是追蹤追溯的系統所以這一次的話也是要把它往下巡線去做追蹤才可以找到第二層的這些廠商然後再進入各個廠商去詢問說他們在消往哪些地方去所以巡線去 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16660.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16679.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
當我們要食品運的時候,我相信不分藍綠白,大家都全力支持,因為食安是絕對要安全,而且要公開透明,你贊同這樣子的論點嗎?那在這樣的情況之下,到目前為止,我們也設立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16680.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16682.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
本席要聽的是這個,民眾要看的是這個,請做說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16706.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16719.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
首先是在邊境管制這個部分我想我們會再把它提升過來像這一次蘇丹紅事件就是說從20%、30%、50%到100%這個過程其實是太慢了所以對於一些比較高風險的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16727.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16753.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
這種成分的話那可能就是一查到就馬上100%去做檢查如果檢查的話部長你這樣就對了你從5月、9月、12月從5月發生、9月又發生到12月你才要100%如果你現在說的這樣就對了你必須要立即不一樣的動作所以要把那些所謂的這種高風險的產品把它找出來這部分的話我們未來一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16753.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16755.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好 我們謝謝楊瓊英委員的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16780.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16784.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
陳培瑜委員不在王美惠委員不在羅志強委員主席有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16810.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16828.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
部長想請教您這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件在這個行政院的定性當中他是系統性食安問題還是個案他是系統性問題非常好是系統性那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16829.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16846.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
其實它是逐漸的演變過來因為一開始我們是查我直接問您在上次2月21號的時候那個我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告說蘇丹紅事件就發生了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16847.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16873.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要的結論就是說這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16876.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16888.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較你們舉了馬政府七件那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16892.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16904.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16905.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16924.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16927.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16937.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16941.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16964.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦 院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16966.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16979.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
是吧因為檢驗數非常積極我認同這個檢驗積極代表對食安的重視嘛對不對那你也知道我有問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16981.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16983.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢?實驗室標準的蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17011.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17022.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
這個我們手上沒有這個資料胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說啦大概就是一公克17萬台幣嘛對不對是蘇丹紅嗎他講蘇丹紅實驗室購買蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17027.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17053.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴所以不會有拿來使用會不會有這個結論當然不一樣嘛答對了嘛那當初為什麼在西部特羅就會出現這個論點呢我在問您齁我想請教您齁2018公告列管蘇丹紅之後什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17057.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17070.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
蘇丹紅的事件這麼大部長這個基本數字恐怕你要知道2021年9月啦要想請問你事發到現在兩年半食藥署做什麼積極防範結果蘇丹紅越查越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17073.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17094.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
這個部分的話其實我也跟委員報告就是說蘇丹紅這個事情的話是在過去111年的時候那在邊境上面並沒有檢出出來啦2022年到2023年143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17096.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17109.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
那個不合格其實是有多種的,包括說主要是農藥,農藥不合格是占多數啦再問部長齁,光熊檢、茶豐、高雄酥魚跟製造業者違規產品就達到32739公斤 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17114.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17144.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
可是我看到這個衛福部的報告說是兩萬三千七百五十九公斤那為什麼差了一萬公斤那差一天結果是熊檢就去扣押了所以顯然你們的計算標準跟熊檢也不一樣那我就要跟大家講你到底從這個角度來我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內冰山一角沒被看到的有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17145.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17173.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
我們現在就尋現在查的當然有可能我們目前有可能而已喔我跟各位講我沒有苛責食藥署、苛責衛福部食品查驗通常是就是冰山一角理論你知道吧你查到代表查到之前有多少流入市面你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面你有沒有估過最後我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17174.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17197.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
部長說一句話啦食安問題不要牽扯前朝食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好的面對不要去用一些很特殊的標準然後去做一些很奇怪的比較現在蘇丹紅事件發生請我們衛福部繃緊神經 捍衛人民的食安好不好我們現在就針對蘇丹紅我們自己謝謝部長感謝您擔起這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17201.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17229.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
好 我們謝謝羅志強委員的質詢本日會議詢答全部結束委員林德甫所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報現在做以下決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17230.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17233.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
謝謝部長、各部會首長、也謝謝各位委員、各位工作人員。謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17263.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17263.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
主席 |