| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf2bdefc150f66783a4573b4d49d3ca806c272e3b80411e8ea236d48226e86be5a549a2cf34375e35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:04:44 - 12:13:06 |
| 影片長度 |
502 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算。二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算。【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月3日中午12時前截止收件】） |
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謝謝主席,是不是可以麻煩有請黃部長我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.628 |
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部長,數發部從2022年8月風光皆白到現在我想社會上面有很多評價講得比較直接一點是很多批評我相信部長都有聽到當然國人會關心的事情是說當副發部今年的預算跟明年你們現在編起來的預算加上前瞻的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
大概拿了283億兩千多萬從各個部會來講這個預算的金額絕對不能算低所以大家就很關心速發部到底做了什麼樣子的事情我就看整個速發部在預算的編列上或者是在相關經費的使用上有一些事情我覺得很困惑 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
86.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
控控是說你們有很多計畫例如說高齡科技產業數位赴能推動銀髮四代連結計畫今年的預算1億7750萬明年的預算1億2240萬總計2億9990萬這個計畫的主持人是誰您知道嗎?這個計畫的主持人是誰您知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們的主秘他現在還是主秘嗎?是他現在還是主秘?是那你們公務員去編這個計畫主要是目的要在計畫裡面養人嗎?因為我看人事費裡面五千多萬人事費五千多萬這個是這個計畫的內容你們有沒有看過?用計畫在養人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
132.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
146 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
因為你齁如果說齁今天這是國科會的計畫學校的單位教授研究計畫要帶學生要養專業的助理所以我可以理解可是怎麼數發部會開始搞這個東西啊部長這個狀況你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
178.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國標單位是公研院等一下等一下等一下先先停一下現在到底誰是部長那個報告報告委員這個我們很多東西是應該這樣講就是說我們在研發裡面有有上中下我們出發部主要是做中下包括推動所以像這個銀髮族這個我們會跟比如說跟公研合作那公研的公研就是就是拿一些研究成果然後至於在產業裡面去補助產業去應用去推動會會在我們這裡處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
179.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
204.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
不是啊 這個跟產業沒關係啊計畫組成就你們組密啊對 那是那個然後下面養了一堆人啊這個東西在做什麼你知不知道銀髮世代的連結對對對 這個東西在做什麼你知不知道對高齡的現在的一個問題我們希望能夠讓這個他們能夠有這個能夠用數位用這個剛講的這些數位的技術能夠做一些在生活上的改善你覺得這個計畫推動到現在成效如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
230.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
部長覺得成效如何還是你不是很了解知道就知道不知道就不知道你不是很了解請你回去了解請你回去了解為什麼請部長回去了解花了幾億搞這個東西啊來我給部長看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
232.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
232.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個的確偏低啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
261.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
272.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
用偏低兩個字可以形容喔我送部長四個字阿叫慘不忍睹阿書發部很有錢阿幾億的計畫搞這種東西出來阿幫了什麼銀髮族阿用銀髮用勒林用這些fancy的字說服立法委員給你們預算搞這個東西出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
292.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
316.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
爛的不得了啊下面一樣啊18次19次16次喂老天啊這個到底在幹嘛部長回去了解一個禮拜之內書面報告說明這是怎麼回事因為這件事情如果沒有說明我在這邊先把話講白了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
318.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
344.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個不是只有一年喔今年還繼續編喔我一定砍到聖靈園沒有必要執行下去嘛我執行這個要幹嘛我們都支持壯世代啊支持銀髮啊支持樂齡啊但支持的方法絕對不是錢亂花啊這在搞什麼東西啊好一個禮拜我們給委員一個報告再看一下審查委員怎麼講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
346.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
373.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各計畫的規劃缺乏創新性高齡學習或社交課程在現有的長青學院已經非常普遍高齡數位學習教材開發的數量也很多結果呢結果我們的速發部錢太多啊立法院給的錢啊不花不行啊隨便亂花效果到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
375.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
401.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
連審查委員都看不下去啊事情還不是只有這樣來再看一下另外一個計畫有一個數位前瞻應用發展計畫這名字又取得很好啦有數位啊有前瞻啊來關鍵成果跟績效指標我看每一年度的奇怪內容幾乎都重複啊內容幾乎都重複啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
403.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
432.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
部長我相信啊如果你自己當審查委員你看了可能都會皺眉頭啊這到底是在搞什麼東西啊來我們再繼續往下看審查委員一樣啊砲聲隆隆啊三項目標各自獨立論述沒有共同的終點目標這個目標也明確說明本計畫以幕僚作業需求為主整體計畫包括眾多不明確的開發需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
433.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
434.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我最後給我最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
464.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
478.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
次世代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬在幹嘛今天我質詢的時候我提了三個東西出來請部長回去了解請部長回去了解一個禮拜之內一個禮拜之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
481.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
500.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
說清楚執行到現在你個人滿不滿意納稅的錢還要不要這樣花一個禮拜之內的書面回答如果我看了沒有辦法說服的話我醜話講在前面今年度相關的預算我一定砍到剩領元謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
820 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（12時5分）謝謝主席！是不是可以麻煩有請黃部長？ |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請黃部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃部長彥男：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
黃委員國昌：部長好。數發部從2022年8月風光揭牌到現在，我想社會上面有很多評價，講得比較直接一點是有很多批評，我相信部長都有聽到。國人會關心的事情是當數發部今年的預算跟明年你們現在編起來的預算再加上前瞻的預算，大概拿了兩百八十三億兩千多萬元，從各個部會來講，這個預算的金額絕對不能算低，所以大家就會很關心數發部到底做了什麼樣子的事情。我看了整個數發部預算的編列或者是在相關經費的使用，有一些事情我覺得很困惑。困惑的是你們有很多計畫，譬如說高齡科技產業數位賦能推動銀髮世代連結計畫，今年的預算編了1億7,750萬元、明年的預算編了1億2,240萬元，總計2億9,990萬元，這個計畫的主持人是誰，您知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
黃部長彥男：請數產署來說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個計畫的主持人是誰，您知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
林代理署長俊秀：是我們的主秘。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃委員國昌：他現在還是主秘嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
林代理署長俊秀：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃委員國昌：你們公務員去編這個計畫主要目的是在計畫裡面養人嗎？因為我看人事費裡面就有五千多萬元。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
林代理署長俊秀：這個是招標的金額。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃委員國昌：你們有沒有看過這個計畫的內容？這是用計畫在養人，因為如果這是國科會的計畫、學校的單位教授研究計畫，要帶學生、要養專任的助理，我可以理解，可是怎麼數發部會開始搞這個東西？部長，這個狀況你知不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李代理署長俊秀：得標單位是工研院。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：等一下，先停一下。現在到底誰是部長？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
黃部長彥男：報告委員，應該這樣講，就是說我們在研發裡面有上中下階段，我們數發部主要是做中下階段，包括推動，所以像銀髮族這個計畫我們會跟比如工研院合作，工研院就是拿一些研究成果，至於在產業裡面去補助、去應用、去推動會在我們這裡處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：不是啊！這個跟產業沒關係啊！計畫主持人就是你們的主秘，然後下面養了一堆人啊！這個東西在做什麼你知不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃部長彥男：銀髮世代的連結。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：對，這個東西在做什麼你知不知道？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃部長彥男：對高齡現在面臨的問題，我們希望讓他們能夠用剛剛講的這些數位技術在生活上做一些改善。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：你覺得這個計畫推動到現在成效如何？部長覺得成效如何？還是你不是很瞭解？知道就知道，不知道就不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
黃部長彥男：這個計畫在我上任之前已經推了一年半，我再回去瞭解，這個我不是很瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：你不是很瞭解，請你回去瞭解。我為什麼請部長回去瞭解？花了幾億搞這個東西啊！我給部長看一下，「樂齡好幫手」這個平台說是要幫助我們銀髮族數位連結、參加各種活動，請部長你看一下，丟了這麼多錢下去，結果是點擊18次、點擊9次、點擊15次，這樣的數字，部長，我看了臉都綠了啦！部長你看了覺得呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
黃部長彥男：這個的確偏低。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：用「偏低」兩個字可以形容喔？我送部長四個字，叫「慘不忍睹」！數發部很有錢吶！幾億的計畫搞這種東西出來啊！幫了什麼銀髮族啊？用銀髮、樂齡這些fancy的字說服立法委員給你們預算，搞這個東西出來，爛得不得了啊！下一張也是一樣，18次、19次、16次，我的老天啊！這個到底在幹嘛？部長，回去瞭解，一個禮拜之內交書面報告，說明這是怎麼回事。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
黃部長彥男：說明我們下次補送。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：因為這件事情如果沒有說明，我在這邊先把話講白了，這個不是只有一年喔，今年還繼續編喔，我一定砍到剩0元。沒有必要執行下去嘛！執行這個要幹嘛？我們都支持壯世代啊！支持銀髮啊！支持樂齡啊！但支持的方法絕對不是錢亂花，這在搞什麼東西啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
黃部長彥男：一個禮拜我們給委員那個報告。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：再看一下審查委員怎麼講的，他們說的是「各計畫的規劃，缺乏創新性，高齡學習或社交課程在現有的長青學苑已經非常普遍，高齡數位學習教材開發的數量也相當多」，結果我們的數發部錢太多，立法院給的錢不花不行，隨便亂花，效果到底在哪裡？連審查委員都看不下去啊！事情還不是只有這樣，再看一下另外一個「數位前瞻應用發展計畫」，計畫名稱都取得很好啦，有數位啊，有前瞻啊，但我看了每一年度的關鍵成果跟績效指標的內容，奇怪的是幾乎都重複啊！內容幾乎都重複啊！部長，我相信如果你自己當審查委員，你看了可能都會皺眉頭，這到底是在搞什麼東西啊！我們再繼續往下看，審查委員一樣砲聲隆隆，認為三項目標各自獨立論述，沒有共同的終點目標，且這個目標也明確說明本計畫以幕僚作業需求為主，整體計畫包裹眾多不明確的開發需求，空泛包山包海，沒有實質對應的產出，這如果是任何一家公司的負責人，看到這樣子的內容會皺眉頭啊，這個錢要丟下去嗎？錢丟到水裡還蹦一聲，但這個錢丟下去可能連聲音都沒有啊！再往後看喔，主席站起來了，不好意思，再給我一點時間。我最後要提的是「次世代行動創新應用賦能發展計畫」，編了兩年2億1,300萬元在幹嘛？今天我質詢提了三個東西出來，請部長回去瞭解，一個禮拜之內說清楚，執行到現在你個人滿不滿意？納稅人的錢還要不要這樣花？一個禮拜之內給的書面回答如果沒有辦法說服我的話，我醜話講在前面，今年度相關的預算我一定砍到剩0元。謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][1] |
接下來邀請林德福委員，林德福委員、林德福委員、林德福委員不在現場。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][2] |
接下來邀請吳春城委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
246 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-23-9 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
185 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-13 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139801_00007 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部資通安全署單位預算；二、審查114年度中央
政府總預算案關於數位發展部數位產業署單位預算 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139801_00010 |
| IVOD_ID |
156824 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156824 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-9 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第9次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-13T12:04:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-13T12:13:06+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |