| IVOD_ID |
156501 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156501 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-05T10:47:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-05T11:02:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:42 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/31e775e5ad017d411f9c4b62504f3767e3fd33acf0e4cf8be60e7bb8abb8d4233c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:47:11 - 11:02:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第7次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢。二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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謝謝主席。有請院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。劉委員好。院長好。院長辛苦齁。不會。院長知道,您知道目前台灣的,面臨到很多內外的隱憂嗎?很多的挑戰。 |
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53.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
所以國家一直有這樣的外部內部的各種問題,我們都極力的來解決。你看這個颱風,12年3次來。大家,你還是總統就要疲於奔命的要去看災。這其實,面臨到這個狀況基本上要很多的因應的措施。剛剛我聽那劉委員的垂詢,劉委員的垂詢,我是劉委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
下午的總預算到底能不能互違?院長有沒有把握?因為院長那天在答覆的時候跟我講說,不至於不會過了。那萬一不會過,怎麼處理?而且又是你當了院長,第一次依照自己的意識去編的預算。萬一不會過,影響的層面非常廣。不然你都會影響到。那你答覆我是,應該不至於不會過了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
萬一不會過怎麼辦?下禮拜再來下禮拜再來下禮拜再來這個下禮拜再來到最終最終如果可以過那當然什麼事情都沒有了嘛就貫徹這個預算要達標嘛達到你們的意志整個施政的這個理念嘛那萬一還是不過勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我還是這一句話應該不會不會過因為這是國家人民的大事甚至台灣的大事現在看起來也是世界上一件重要的事我還是期待院長的信心可以履行但是還是要請院長要有相關的因應知道好不好謝謝院長那第二個今天是美國總統大選院長有預知的能力能不能答覆一下預知哪一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
誰當選對台灣的政策對台灣的影響包含從經濟包含從相關的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
189.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
雖然我們認為美台之間的關係一定是持續穩定的發展但是政策上如果有任何的轉變那我們會有國家因應的對策這一定是要的但是我們現在還是認為他應該朝向健康有序的發展你看喔 院長請看一下圖表這個是我們近一年美國成為台灣出口最大的一個投資市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
190.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
209.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那台灣在對美國出口額在過去5年是快速增加,從2017年的115億到2023年是增加到215億美元。換了總統,絕對有不一樣的做法跟思維嘛。那為什麼美國總統大選之前已經鬧得灰又洋洋?川普說過什麼樣的話?賀錦麗說過什麼樣的話? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
212.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我想不管站在經濟不管站在產業不管站在投資美國這個市場誰當選對我們影響甚巨嗎那我們應該有相關的因應的這樣的一個方針在準備吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
253.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我認為美國是一個民主純熟的國家選舉當中很多的政策未來還是要經過美國整個國家在大政策大方向的前提之下持續它長久以來的發展跟方向所以我是覺得未來的健康有序的發展應該還是我們現在有信心有把握的對院長有信心有把握我也非常的能夠期待但是因應的相關的方針有預備好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
255.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
誰當選?對不對?我們應該有一定的因應的作為嗎?請簡單答悟,謝謝。我們現在是有在做準備。那原則上川普的當選對我們差異性比較大。那我們也看到他整個政策主要是他會對中國加徵60%的關稅。對一般的國家增加10%的關稅。那第二個部分在技術的控管。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
304.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那因為這個部分呢其實對台灣來講其實是利多於弊的原因主要是第一個會加速台灣的移動台商移動第二個事情是我們有這個機會得到更多的取代訂單取代那這幾年其實中國很多的訂單是被取代你特別提到他對中國會加稅嗎對其他國家會加稅嗎對台灣會不會對台企業會不會怎樣處理你如果要回答我就應該回答這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
307.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
329.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
基本上它是增加10%,但是它是逐步增加因為台灣的企業基本上是以幫美國廠商代工為主所以我們的影響並沒有那麼的劇烈那第二個事情是它會做技術的限令那技術的限令是為了保障美國利益那基本上我們會跟著這個技術限令中我們認為有機會得到好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
331.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
333.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
報告委員,我們的準備是這樣,就是依照這個國發會的這樣的一個佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
355.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那就經濟部的立場來看就像剛才國發會的這個推論是一樣的就是賀錦麗因為她是延續她民主黨的這個政策所以對我們來講是沒有太大的這個改變如果是今天是這個川普當選 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
371.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我再請院長看這個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
397.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
台灣要進到超高齡社會,院長非常清楚,65歲已經要達到20%,可能今年年底就到了啦,或許是明年初嘛,原本是預估在最早之前是2026啦,你看這三年前就提早說提早會提早到2025,那我看是應該是2024的年底就會達標了啦,因為那個統計數據會有呈現的速度快慢的這個狀況。那五個人就有一個人超過65歲,這個國家的人口結構快速轉變, |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
443.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
其實什麼都會變啦從經濟啦、產業啦、文化啦、教育等等等是快跟慢是這個部分坦白說啦齁我在院長的施政報告我都有拜託過這一塊人口結構快速轉變的因應作為院長我是沒有看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
443.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
463.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們另外有人口對策的在討論特定的議題那已經開過數字的會議了你再看小英還沒有當總統之前的長照1叫1.0吧平均4、5、10億啦坦白講很多是用行政院與預備軍去動之的小英上台之後的第二年成立長照基金從4、5、10億變成321你看那是幾倍數的在成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
467.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
到了現在賴總統就位了,明年的長照今年是876億,明年是927億,還是快速在增加。那院長你可以看這個相關的一些資料,衛福部推動一國中學區一日間照顧中心,院長部長看一下,到了112年還有7個縣市未達成,未達到8成,院長覺得這樣很及格嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
496.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
家庭社區、機構、團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
519.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
526.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
院長跟部長開一個資料,截至到112年底,全國有7748村裡,累計有4101個村裡佈建,4830個關懷據點,佈建率為52.93,金門跟台北已經超過70%。我的縣市雲林縣到現在為止37點多,其他的縣市不及50%的一大堆。院長覺得這樣及格嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
549.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
577.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那請衛福部跟廖都住行這個各地方政府能夠配合那中央能夠協助的我們積極的趕上你的目標要不要設定出來院長是一個很有信心的人像這樣有三成多五成多的其他縣市已經來到七成全國目前為止在做這個關懷據點我覺得齁我要跟院長因為時間的關係我講最快的速度啦齁長照關懷據點重中之重 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
578.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
602.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我一生追求是希望讓台灣的人民六個字而已預防走入長照或許大家聽起來會很衝突矛盾政府在推長照的政策裡面是百姓的感受度好的正向的是非常高的那我為什麼反而不希望人民走入長照長照呼喚的法律定義非常清楚長期身體心理沒辦法治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
603.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
628.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
要讓人家處理啦,要讓人家料理嘛,簡單講就是要有六三六六就對了啦。我們做蓋好的長照就是很多人這樣的需求,你看他的預算節節在上升。這是非常恐怖的,你看有哪幾中央部會相關的各機關的單位預算,有哪一個像長照預算這麼快速增加?非常少,少之又少。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
629.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
654.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那代表整個臺灣超過一定的年齡的這個需求長照的人數它是在擴充它是在增加那另外一個角度當然我們的服務項目服務的對象也在增加是沒有錯不過我必須要提醒如果今天賴清德總統打造的健康臺灣然後我們的長照的需求又持續在擴大其實這是衝突跟矛盾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
656.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
666.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
簡單用一個台語說啦,簡單一句話就好了啦,人生如果吃到,吃到八九十歲,要做好東西啦,不用對那八成啦,不用用六三十九五六年就對了啦,這叫好事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
667.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
667.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
698.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
698.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
729.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
市委員的隨行,我們在長照山頂特別強調也就是委員所一直關心的希望能夠用預防的角度所以我們怎麼樣預防失能其實是長照山頂最重要的一件事情也就是說剛剛院長所提的我們健康台灣希望不健康的移民能夠降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
730.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
732.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
長照預防的比例在佔876億多少?明年920億預防的比例是多少?然後你著重在哪一塊? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
758.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
784.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
除了你剛剛講的那幾項,你裝在哪一塊?報告委員長照基本上都是都是剛剛你講的就是說基本上看起來他的工作的內容來講基本上的確過去都是照顧這個失能嘛但是如果要把它推到前面那可能要結合到醫療體系跟社區整合型照顧體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
784.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
812.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我這段時間預算存兩分鐘而已齁,我做很短的時間,我們如果陳吳院長也覺得預防走入長道是我們打造現在台灣的這樣的一個目標啦,跟方法來講,那你在長照基金的預防就比重要拉高嘛,那我們就很清楚,今年800多億,你的預防比例是多少,明年900多億的預防比例是多少,那你要放在哪一塊嘛,你的社區公園據點,你基本上,你到現在為止,全國不到五成, |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
813.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
841.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
市區會計程的用意非常重要我原提的這個問題我們應該是科學上來把它算數一下因為現在比較難算數我們在比如說社區照顧多元當中有很多是健康跟亞健康的國人他可能進到裡面他不是需要長照的也有他可能在從事一些活動啦運動啦等等或交流那這個部分我們會有多少的預算或許目前沒有系列成這個樣子那這個研究是有價值的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
841.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
867.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
OK,院長,這個我們之前,我剛剛特別強調,在成立常常基金的時候,我們就有特別要求了。這一定要有一定的比例啦。我們有關懷訪視嘛,我們有參與健康活動等嘛。這些絕對不是只有長照需求者,對象不是只有長照需求者。其實坦白講,我們現在處理的面向已經非常廣了。會得到正向的這樣的一個肯定,基本上不是只有照顧這一群。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
868.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
870.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二、上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。．劉建國 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
887.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
904.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個必須要...這個健康照顧的確是連續的,剛剛院長也有指示,那我想我們如果來把他欺負比較屬於在預防性,其實你現在在照顧就是讓他不要失能,不要躺下來,這個都是長照裡面非常重要的工作,這其實都是屬於預防他 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
904.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
919.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
施能的一個很重要的所以院長也有認同那部長我希望這樣我們再把它分析問題分析得更細緻一點這一個月也可以吧我們把這樣相關的面向把它盤整出來檢討出來然後我們在明年度的也明年度還沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
932.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
934.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好,謝謝劉建國委員質詢。謝謝卓院長及相關首長的備詢。 |
| gazette.lineno |
614 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
劉委員建國：（10時47分）謝謝主席，有請院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
卓院長榮泰：劉委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
劉委員建國：院長好。院長辛苦了。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不會。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
劉委員建國：院長您知道目前臺灣面臨到很多內外的隱憂嗎？很多的挑戰。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，國家一直有這樣外部、內部的各種問題，我們都極力的來解決。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
劉委員建國：你看颱風接二連三一直來，你還是總統就要疲於奔命的去勘災，其實臺灣面臨到這個狀況，基本上要有很多因應的措施。剛剛我聽牛委員的垂詢，下午的總預算到底能不能付委？院長有沒有把握？因為院長那天在答復的時候，跟我講說不至於不會過，那萬一不會過，怎麼處理？而且這是你當了院長第一次依照自己的意志去編的預算，萬一不會過，影響的層面非常廣，包含你都會影響到，你答復我是應該不至於不會過，那萬一不會過怎麼辦？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
卓院長榮泰：下禮拜再來。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
劉委員建國：下禮拜再來？到最終、最終如果可以過，當然什麼事情都沒有了，就貫徹這個預算要達標，達到你們的意志、整個施政的理念嘛！那萬一還是不過呢？你看，院長…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我還是這句話，應該不會不會過，因為這是國家人民的大事，甚至臺灣的大事現在看起來也是世界上一件重要的事。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
劉委員建國：我還是期待院長的信心可以履行啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
卓院長榮泰：一定要。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
劉委員建國：但是還是請院長要有相關的因應之道，好不好？謝謝院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
劉委員建國：第二個，今天是美國總統大選，院長有預知的能力，能不能答復一下，預知哪一位美國總統候選人會當選？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我沒有這個能力…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
劉委員建國：因為你對預算就可以說「應該」。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
卓院長榮泰：預測我們自己總統的選舉可能比較有能力，美國總統選舉我沒有能力預測。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
劉委員建國：好，如果沒有預測能力，就應該要有相關的因應之道嘛！誰當選對臺灣的政策、對臺灣的影響，包含從經濟、包含從相關的產業，會有什麼樣的影響，我們有準備好了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們認為美、臺之間的關係一定是持續穩定的發展，政策上如果有任何的轉變，我們會有國家因應的對策，這一定是要的，但是我們現在還是認為它應該朝向健康永續的發展。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
劉委員建國：院長請看一下圖表，近一年美國成為臺灣出口最大的一個投資市場，臺灣對美國出口額在過去5年是快速增加，從2017年的115億到2023年是增加到215億美元，換了總統，絕對有不一樣的作法跟思維嘛！我想美國總統大選之前，已經鬧得沸沸揚揚，川普說過什麼樣的話、賀錦麗說過什麼樣的話，不管站在經濟，不管站在產業，不管站在投資美國這個市場，誰當選對我們影響甚鉅嘛，我們應該有相關因應的一個方針在準備吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我認為美國是一個民主成熟的國家，選舉當中很多的政策，未來還是要經過美國整個國家在大政策、大方向的前提之下，持續它長久以來的發展跟方向，所以我是覺得未來健康永續的發展，我們現在應該還是有信心、有把握的。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
劉委員建國：院長，有信心、有把握，我也非常的能夠期待啦，但是因應相關的方針有預備好了嗎？誰當選，我們應該有一定因應的作為嘛！請簡單答復，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，我們現在是有在做準備，原則上川普的當選對我們差異性比較大，我們也看到他整個政策主要是會對中國加增60%的關稅；對一般的國家增加10%的關稅。第二個部分在技術的控管，這個部分其實對臺灣來講是利多於弊的原因主要是，第一個，會加速臺商移動；第二個，我們有這個機會得到更多的訂單取代，這幾年，其實中國很多的訂單是被取代下來…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
劉委員建國：你特別提到，他對中國會加稅嘛！對其他國家會加稅嘛！對臺灣會不會？對臺企業怎麼樣處理？你如果要回答我就應該回答這些。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：它是增加10%，但它是逐步增加，因為基本上臺灣的企業是以幫美國廠商代工為主…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
劉委員建國：沒有錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：所以對我們的影響並沒有那麼劇烈。第二個事情，它會做技術的限令，技術的限令是為了保障美國利益，基本上，跟著這個技術限令中，我們認為有機會得到好處。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
劉委員建國：現在你只有答復我，你的設想是川普當選…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：對，川普當選。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
劉委員建國：如果是賀錦麗當選呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：賀錦麗當選，跟現在的變動不會太大，我們的評估是這樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
劉委員建國：有評估過了？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
劉委員建國：也有相關因應的作為就對了？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
劉主任委員鏡清：對，因為他的政策會繼續延續。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
劉委員建國：郭部長要不要補充？簡單就好，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員，我們的準備是這樣，依照國發會這樣的一個布局，就經濟部的立場來看，就像剛才國發會的推論是一樣，賀錦麗因為是延續民主黨的這個政策，所以對我們來講是沒有太大的改變；如果是今天是川普當選，他也一直對我們的晶片法相當有意見，但是我們評估過了，我們有一套對策在，所以應該不會像外面在講的那麼嚴重。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
劉委員建國：OK，好，我就儘量讓你們答復啦，看起來兩位都跟院長一樣，也相當有信心啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
郭部長智輝：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
劉委員建國：兩位請回好，謝謝。我再請院長看這一個，臺灣要進到超高齡社會，院長非常清楚，65歲以上人口已經要達到20%，可能今年年底就到了，或許明年初…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
卓院長榮泰：明年。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
劉委員建國：原本最早之前預估是2026啦，你看3年前就說會提早到2025…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
卓院長榮泰：2025。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
劉委員建國：我看是應該是2024的年底就就會達標了啦，因為統計數據呈現會有速度快慢的狀況，5個人就有1個人超過65歲，這個國家的人口結構快速轉變，其實什麼都會變啦，從經濟、產業、文化、教育等等，是快跟慢的問題。這個部分坦白說，院長的施政報告我都有拜讀過，這一塊人口結構快速轉變的因應作為，院長，我是沒有看到耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們另外有人口對策的在討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
劉委員建國：好，沒關係…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
卓院長榮泰：特定的議題，但已經開過數次會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
劉委員建國：OK，謝謝。院長，你再看，小英還沒有當總統之前的長照叫1.0嘛，平均40、50億啦，坦白講很多是用行政院預備金去動支。小英上臺之後的第2年成立長照基金，從四、五十億變成320億，你看它是幾倍數的在成長？現在賴總統就位了，今年長照是876億，明年是927億，還是快速在增加。院長你可以看這些相關資料，衛福部推動一國中學區一日照顧中心，院長、部長看一下，到112年還有7個縣市未達未達到八成，院長覺得這樣及格嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
卓院長榮泰：事實上進步速度是很具體的呈現，但委員所指出的還有若干不足，當然要趕上來，未來我們計畫推動長照3.0，會從家庭、社區到機構及社福整個串聯起來。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
劉委員建國：家庭、社區、機構到團體。我這邊再給院長跟部長看一個資料，截至112年底，全國有7,748個村里，累計有4,101個村里布建4,830個關懷據點，布建率為52.93%，金門跟臺北已經超過七成（70%），我的縣市──雲林縣到現在為止百分之三十七點多，其他的縣市不及50%的有一大堆，院長覺得這樣及格嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請衛福部更要促請各地方政府配合，中央能夠協助的，我們會積極趕上。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
劉委員建國：你的目標要不要設定出來？院長是一個很有信心的人，像這樣有三成多、五成多的，其他的縣市已經達到七成，目前為止，全國在做這個關懷據點……我覺得我要跟院長說明，因為時間的關係，我用最快的速度講，長照關懷據點的重中之重，我一生追求的是希望讓臺灣人民達到6個字──預防走入長照，或許大家聽起來會很衝突矛盾，政府在推長照的政策，百姓的感受度是好的、正向的非常高，我為什麼反而不希望人民走入長照？長照服務法的法律定義非常清楚，係指長期身體、心理沒辦法自理，都要讓人家處理、讓人家料理，簡單說就是要有人幫忙把屎把尿就對了。我們蓋好了長照，就表示有很多人有這樣的需求，你看它的預算節節上升，這是非常恐怖的，你看中央部會各機關相關的單位預算，有哪一個像長照預算這麼快速增加？非常少、少之又少。代表整個臺灣超過一定年齡的需求及長照人數在擴充、在增加；另外一個角度，當然我們的服務項目、服務對象也在增加是沒有錯，不過我必須要提醒，如果今天賴清德總統打造的是「健康台灣」，然後我們長照的需求又持續擴大，其實這是衝突跟矛盾的。簡單用台語說一句話就好了：人生若活到八、九十歲後好走，不用躺在病床、不用被人家把屎把尿五、六年，這叫做福報。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，跟委員的想法一樣，健康臺灣裡面的一支重要精神就是要縮短國人的不健康餘命，所以剛剛委員說的那一句「預防走入長照」就是一個好的方向。我也常說：讓國人健康多一天，勝過給他照顧多一點；讓他能夠健康健康的活著。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
劉委員建國：那我就要請教院長跟部長了，當時長照服務法在主提的時候，包含長照基金在設立時，我們都有特別要求「預防走入長照」要有一定比率在長照基金裡面，院長跟部長可以答復我嗎？比率是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
邱部長泰源：好，謝謝委員的垂詢，我們在長照3.0裡面特別強調，也就是委員一直關心的，希望能夠用預防的角度，所以怎麼樣預防失能其實是長照3.0最重要的一件事情，也就是剛剛院長所提的「健康台灣」，希望不健康的餘命能夠降低…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
劉委員建國：部長，你直接答復我比率好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
邱部長泰源：我們現在強調的是醫療跟長照的結合，長照3.0在這個部分很重要，所以我們從預防開始，家庭醫師到家裡去，還有團隊…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
劉委員建國：部長，你還是沒答復我，今年長照876億，預防的比率占多少？明年927億，預防的比率是多少？然後你們著重在哪一塊？除了剛剛講的那幾項，你們著重在哪一塊？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
邱部長泰源：報告委員，長照基本上都是剛剛你講的，就他的工作內容來看，的確過去都是照顧失能者，但是如果要把他推到前面，可能就要結合到醫療體系跟社區整合型的照護體系…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
劉委員建國：部長，我的發言時間真的有限，只剩下2分鐘，我最後一點時間…… |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
邱部長泰源：我的意思是說，從別的經費…… |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
劉委員建國：誠如院長也覺得，預防走入長照是我們打造健康臺灣這樣一個目標跟方法，那你在長照基金的預防比重就要拉高，那我們就很清楚，像今年八百多億，你的預防比例是多少；明年九百多億，你預防比例是多少，那你要放在哪一塊嘛！像社區關懷據點，到現在為止，全國不到五成！社區關懷據點的用意非常重要…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員提的這個問題，我們應該是科學上來把它算數一下，現在比較難算的是，比方說社區照顧多元當中，有很多是健康跟亞健康的國人，他可能進到裡面，但他不是需要長照的也有…… |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
劉委員建國：對！對！對！ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
卓院長榮泰：他可能是在從事一些活動、運動或交流等等，而這個部分我們會有多少的預算，或許目前沒有細列成這個樣子，但這個研究是有價值的。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
劉委員建國：OK！院長，我剛剛特別強調，之前在成立長照基金的時候，我們就有特別要求了，這一定要有一定的比例，像我們有關懷訪視、參與健康活動等等，這些對象絕對不是只有長照需求者，其實坦白講，我們現在處理的面向已經非常廣了，會得到正向這樣的一個肯定，基本上不是只有照顧這一群，連那些好手好腳的，我們也一併在照顧了。所以這個部分你們要盤整非常清楚，然後到底這個預防的費用應該占你整個年度長照期基金的比例是多少，你才可以達到預防走入長照真正的效果。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
邱部長泰源：是。這個健康照護的確是連續的，剛剛院長也有指示，我想我們來把它區分哪些比較屬於預防性的，其實現在的照顧，就是讓他不要失能、不要躺下來，這個都是長照裡面非常重要的工作，這其實都是屬於預防他失能一個很重要的部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
劉委員建國：所以院長有認同，我希望…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們再把問題分析得更細緻一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
劉委員建國：部長，1個月可以吧？把這樣相關的面向盤整出來、檢討出來…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
邱部長泰源：沒有問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
劉委員建國：然後明年度的因為還沒有執行，所以明年度就這個部分應該怎樣去做，有一定比例去做預防走入長照以達到目標，我覺得這是可以來處理的，好不好？院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
劉委員建國：謝謝部長，謝謝院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
主席：謝謝劉建國委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關首長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][1] |
報告院會，現在在議場2樓旁聽的是我們張嘉郡委員邀請的，來自雲林縣大埤鄉的鄉親，熱烈歡迎大埤鄉的好朋友，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][2] |
接下來我們請登記第22號的羅廷瑋委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
226 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-2-7 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
125 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-11-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138801 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138801_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期第7次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「114年
度中央政府總預算案」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─
詢答完畢─ |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138801_00004 |