| IVOD_ID |
156316 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156316 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-30 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-30T11:58:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-30T12:05:43+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/da0d5cdf8d126ade9082ae256bc0678e67ff13663af3209ef293381db574b3e92f620ca07494474b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:58:26 - 12:05:43 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。二、繼續審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一) 行政院函請審議「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(二) 本院委員羅明才等20人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。(三) 本院委員賴士葆等25人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(四) 本院委員伍麗華等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(五) 本院委員邱志偉等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。三、審查「證券交易稅條例」5案：(一) 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「證券交易稅條例部分條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】(二) 本院委員林楚茵等19人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」案。(三) 本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】(四) 本院委員賴惠員等37人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」案。(五) 本院委員蔡易餘等16人擬具「證券交易稅條例第二條之二及第十二條條文修正草案」。【本案如經院會復議，則不予審查】四、審查金融監督管理委員會函送「延長調降當日沖銷交易稅之稅式支出評估報告」及「研商延長調降當沖交易證券交易稅實施期間」公聽會之會議紀錄案。五、討論中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表－營業及非營業部分）審查日程暨審查分配表草案。【10/30及10/31，兩天一次會】） |
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主委我主要是要跟主委討論一下虛擬貨幣的問題 |
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這部分我主要是從司法案件的角度切入下去了解一下就是說去年我們統計詐騙案件是3萬多件那這3萬多件裡面有1萬多件是虛擬貨幣那它佔的金額是53億 |
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那跟全年的詐騙金額88億 其實它是佔了6成的以上所以說詐騙集團很喜歡用虛擬貨幣把錢匯出方便把錢匯出去這個其實是一個現在實務上面的問題那前沒有多久桃園地檢署才起訴了一件就是詐騙集團勾結的律師還有臺銀的行員就把騙來的錢1.1億用泰達幣他把它洗到國外去 |
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88.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主委我想跟你說明一下我們刑案辦很久了我很理解一件事情任何一個財產犯罪人民最在意的是錢拿不拿得回來至於被告會被判多久那是次要的事情他們最在意是怎麼樣把錢拿回來可是呢這段時間不管破獲再多的機房再多車手錢還是沒有辦法留在國內甚至回到被害人的手上所以我想請教主委現在透過洗錢防治法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
104.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
遵循聲明的虛擬貨幣業者現在目前到底是幾家現在總共有26家那有幾家是外國的現在詳細數字應該只有一家一家是外國的那我請教一下那你要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
121.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
掌握這個人民的錢被洗到國外去如果照這樣講你看有八成的臺灣照遠見的那個調查有八成的臺灣人他是把虛擬貨幣是投資在國外的交易所那如果照你這樣講的話那其實對國外的交易所根本 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
122.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
149.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
劃外之地嘛你沒有辦法掌握嘛對不對然後3月我記得今年3月的時候金管會來這邊備詢有委員就是有提出說這個境外交易是目前最大的洗錢漏洞政府要趕快管那你6月的時候來這邊備詢你也有提到說你說對這個問題啊你會找國外的政府還有機關合作還有一些國際組織來合作共同解決主委這是你說的對不對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
149.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
157.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好那現在10月了啦除了剛剛說那26家本國還有你說有一家那個他國的啦那到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
158.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
185.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有在臺灣我們民眾能使用的這個虛擬貨幣的業者有多少家我想這樣好啦全世界幾千家嘛對不對可以使用的有幾千家嘛對不對對非常多好那你現在控管到的就是國內26國外一家這是你們目前能控管所以我請教你6月的時候你備詢的時候說會跟國外政府還有國際組織合作那目前掌握了哪些國家有哪些國際的組織跟我們合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
187.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們現在當然是跟洗錢組織是合作最密切反洗錢的組織哪一個反洗錢組織?就是我們亞洲反洗錢的APG就來我們這邊做鑑定的那個APG上次我們還有辦評審員的訓練其實我們在這方面一直都從那邊得到很多的協助跟資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
237.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
但是不管怎麼樣你看一下你跟APG合作而已嘛那APG它也不算是一個什麼官方的組織嘛那你這樣合作效果在哪裡或是它的會員國也有限啊它不是全世界都是它的會員國嘛因為我這個我以前在法務部也是受那個洗錢防治的訓練都有看過這些資料但是現在有個問題就是說像你剛剛講的國內有16家、國外1家但是我剛剛有提到世界上有幾千家等於是無法管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
238.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
266.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
照這個比例來說我們現在那個打架事法裡面通過有一個就是我們這次把那個VASP的帳號已經納入跟那個電資信用卡跟銀行帳戶一起來做管理啦那比如剛剛委員提到那個錢還不回來我們那個條文裡面也有提到假設我們查扣的話經過比如說可以有更快速的法源可以返還這個錢你講的是查扣嘛對不對但是我現在要告訴你的虛擬貨幣的問題是它馬上匯出國外啊是查扣不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們在實務做了那麼久了是查扣不了不是說查扣拿不回來我想主委你要弄清楚這件事情好不好那因為太多錢流出去所以6月的時候檢察官有開一個研討會他也是一直在罵說儘管會是消極的不管理消極的不管理這是檢察官們在研討會的時候的結論所以不但控管不了案子也讓民眾的錢留不在臺灣就都匯出去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
292.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那控管不了就會發生前端應該控管好的行政機關沒控管好搞得後端的司法機關焦頭爛額所以我跟你說齁我覺得啦我們現在要注意幾個點就是說你金管會應該做的事先你要我們在預防那個虛擬貨幣的犯罪嘛那事終我們要想辦法把被害人的錢留在臺灣那事後我們就透過執法去找到這些犯罪證據對不對所以齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
337.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我還是要麻煩你們金管會不要把問題丟給後端前端沒有管理好後端都很難管理所以這個問題麻煩你們注意還有就是最後30秒其實我知道你們不是只有管洗錢這件事情其實整個市場的交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
339.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
356.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
還有一些交易的安全、健全消費者保護那資訊安全、貨幣發行這個你們都要控管但是你們可以藉由落實這個控管可以去達到監督的效果不要讓後端的司法機關讓那些檢察官、調查官、警察一直罵你們金管會他們罵很兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
373.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
然後民眾也氣得半死因為我跟你講雖然我們的法制化大概是中斷在世界是中斷班對於這個虛擬貨幣的法制化是中斷班但是我們國人使用網路的那個比例太高所以你一比較起來那個數字就很可怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
373.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
400.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
其實謝謝報告委員其實消極不作為這樣的指控是對金管會是不公平的啦因為其實我們在過去很多作為我們也針對這個做專案報告所以說其實上當然指責很容易但是我覺得我們還是會努力來做剛剛委員指證的這個東西可是就只有你們能管啊你說這個指責不公平那只有你們能管別人管不了那你說我管不了就算了嗎不是只有我們比如說還有其他的部會也都要一起來努力沒關係啦就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
400.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
418.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這樣啦那還是請金管會兩個月內能夠交付一個報告全民痛恨痛恨詐騙然後錢迅速流到國外在座的每一個人委員大家都有同感好不好國人也很在意這件事金管會主委這是你主責的事情麻煩你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
426.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
把這個事情再落實那兩個月內能夠給我們一份報告看接下來怎麼去控管這個虛擬貨幣的部分謝謝主委謝謝中線委員接著我們請楊瓊英委員質詢 |