| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/402373dbe145685bd85109f8a11a6cb66b4c0e929d5f577f0c31a177377941b7ec1a1595b71728d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳亭妃 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:00:49 - 10:12:47 |
| 影片長度 |
718 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案。
【如經復議則不予審查】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我想今天對於壯世代倡議大家不反對但是今天是我們如何在一個議題當中讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
35.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
﹏﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
55.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
78.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
合併變成一部你們認為應該做這樣的一個壯世代政策跟產業發展的促進法然後把它匯集起來我相信這個是必須接受很大的討論因為如果今天把它全部抽出來那是不是我們所有的法都要重新檢討了 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
80.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
109.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
因為我們一定拒絕跌床架屋的法令否則到底我這一部法規我要由誰來主管那我們經濟部有產業發展條例有中小企業發展條例這是經濟部那如果今天在壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案如果這個案子通過了那如果遇到相類似的狀態那要由誰來做主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
132.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以其實這是一個非常危險如果我們立法機關自己都搞不清楚然後就在這裡進行去做這樣的一個法案的討論是非常危險然後我就要問了我問部長跟次長請問我是屬於什麼世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
135.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
159.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我是屬於什麼世代今天壯世代大家在倡議之後我要問我屬於什麼世代我50歲50歲63年次我屬於什麼世代這個是把它做了一個切割你反而那我是不是要再推一個叫親世代是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
161.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
171.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
否則有壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案那我是不是要再推一個青世代政策與產業發展促進法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
172.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
否則有可能現在我們所看到的壯世代如果他是以中高齡他是目前經濟的強勢喔那青世代在50歲以下這一塊反而是我們現在要協助他如何往上提升進入到經濟強勢那請問哪一個區塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
更為重要那是不是又變成世代的差異這是有很危險當我們在倡議壯世代的時候那我們有沒有反過來思考說那另外一個世代呢那這個壯世代我們現在所說的是以幾歲做區隔現在對壯世代的定義並沒有那麼清楚這只是一個名詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這是一個名詞壯世代可是我們到底要怎麼去簽所以我認為說我們如果要去推動一個法案我們都是立法委員我們是要負責任的如果說今天只是為了這個壯世代倡議我絕對第一個舉手因為本來就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們要去做這樣的一個名詞的倡議讓大家去看到什麼是壯世代那其他的世代又是什麼那我們要去幫這些世代做什麼事情這本來就是不論是執政或在野每個人都要去做可是你要把它作為是法令的部分就要從長計議 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
這個是我們今天其實認為不宜就因為這樣子的一個答詢然後好像是否下一個階段就要進入主條哇 這個好危險那公聽會是一場兩場三場所以我們真的要拜託一個好的議題千萬不要把它變成是一個大家對立的議題這是很可怕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
331.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們現在的社會 別看這個對立啊 大家希望的是 smooth 是希望的能夠你我互相關心 你我互相往上提升 所以千萬不能用一個法令又變成是一個政治的問題 世代的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
333.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
陳亭妃陳亭妃 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
363.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
389.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們對於長照的議題從小英總統上任到現在賴清的總統說要往上提升到3.0我們也看到整個長照基金的預算我們從2019年開始其實我們幾乎都是300億以上這樣的一個數額甚至是越往上到了我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
392.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
416.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個2023年的時候已經高達679億對不對然後我們現在在明年的部分我們所提出的是879億對不對但是非常遺憾現在預算還在空中飛還沒有進到立法院的真正審議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
418.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那我另外一個要跟市長分享的是當我們從300億到600億到800億甚至要接近到900億請問你們有沒有反觀我們做了這些之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
真正有keep到每個人長者的需求嗎有沒有你們有沒有去做通盤檢討或是隨時的檢討滾動式檢討有沒有是報告委員非常佩服委員對這部分的一個關心那我想兩個重點第一個我們預算增加我再補充一個數字如果再加上原民會還有其他的相關部會的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
475.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
明年賴總統他給我們的預算長照部分是927這是第一個另外第二個委員非常關心的就是說對於各個部分我們特別是對於我們現在目前這些長者的一個部分我跟委員報告我們現在目前有3.0裡面的一個策略其實2.0已經做很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
475.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們現在目前有個經濟策略最主要就是說對於輕中重不同的這一個的這個CMS的這一個各個層級我們都會有一個整個就是說個別化的一個整個的一個服務計畫好這個計畫很好可是我要問的是你們有沒有回歸到基層去了解你所做的這些計畫是不是就是計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
還是真正有讓需要的人拿到他需要的幫助這很重要你要聽懂我的意思我們都來自基層沒錯你知道嗎有一個里長他都在幫大家做這些長照的宣導沒錯幫市政府做長照的宣導但是他有一次哭著來找我他說委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
534.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
556.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我自己的先生用到我才知道原來在關鍵需要的時候束手無策為什麼什麼叫關鍵的時候當他先生要去看病的時候要去排交通車排不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
558.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
575.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
可是醫生是有時間的約定那你們今天我看到你們的交通接送服務是有的還有輔具居家無障礙環境改善服務是有的照顧及專業服務是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
603.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
他跟我講說我當里長我就在幫政府宣導長照2.0長照可以有什麼樣的協助幫忙然後你可以跟政府怎麼申請要多多利用可是當他自己要使用的時候他用不到而且不知道要找誰去幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
606.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以我今天會在這個時候提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
637.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為你沒有辦法感受到他的那種心理的痛他本身里長做第一線在幫政府宣傳的喔所以我才會說你的計劃是單純就是計劃就是在消化預算的計劃還是真正有用到每個人需要的家中他真正能夠拿到我們的協助而讓這個家庭有所改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
638.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
665.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
而不是因為有一個長照的病人而讓他整個家人跟家庭都變成必須整個一片的黑暗我們的長照不就是這樣的嗎我們現在在協助不是就是說我們要幫大家所以我今天用這個故事用這樣的一個一個我自己直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
667.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
683.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但你說我可以幫他嗎?我也幫不了他。最無奈的是我也幫不了他。為什麼?因為他是要有專車。他不是隨便的車子都可以載。那這個專車量夠嗎?那為什麼會有人排不到?那為什麼大家要搶著?這就是問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
693.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
693.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝陳委員 謝謝 |
| gazette.lineno |
370 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員亭妃：（10時1分）謝謝主席。請衛福部次長、勞動部部長，還有經濟部次長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
何部長佩珊：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳委員亭妃：謝謝。今天對於壯世代倡議，大家不反對，但是今天是我們如何在一個議題當中，讓所有臺灣人民能夠去接受這樣的名詞，但是因為要接受這個名詞，然後要把我們所有的法，全部已經在進行當中的所有法律重新打破，把它抽出合併變成一部你們認為應該做的壯世代政策與產業發展促進法，然後把它匯集起來，我相信這個是必須接受很大的討論。因為如果今天把它全部抽出來，那是不是所有的法都要重新檢討了，因為我們一定拒絕疊床架屋的法令，否則到底這一部法規要由誰來主管？經濟部有產業發展條例、中小企業發展條例，這是經濟部；如果今天壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案通過了，假設遇到相類似的狀態，要由誰來做主導？所以其實這非常危險，如果立法機關自己都搞不清楚，然後就在這裡逕行去做這樣一個法案的討論是非常危險。我就要問了，部長、次長，請問我是屬於什麼世代？今天壯世代在大家倡議之後，我要問我屬於什麼世代，我50歲、63年次屬於什麼世代？這個是把它做了一個切割，那我是不是要再推一個叫青世代？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
呂次長建德：對啊！沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳委員亭妃：是不是？否則有壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案，那我是不是要再推一個青世代政策與產業發展促進法草案？否則有可能現在我們所看到的壯世代，如果他是中高齡，他是目前經濟的強勢哦！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
呂次長建德：對，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳委員亭妃：那青世代在50歲以下這一塊反而是我們現在要協助他如何往上提升進入經濟強勢，請問哪一個區塊更為重要？是不是又變成世代的差異？這很危險！當我們在倡議壯世代的時候，我們有沒有反過來思考另外一個世代呢？這個壯世代現在所說的是以幾歲做區隔？現在對壯世代的定義並沒有那麼清楚，這只是一個名詞──壯世代，可是我們到底要怎麼去切？所以我認為如果要去推動一個法案，我們都是立法委員，我們是要負責任的，如果今天只是為了這個壯世代倡議，我絕對第一個舉手，因為本來就是我們要去做這樣一個名詞的倡議，讓大家去看到什麼是壯世代，那其他的世代又是什麼？我們要去幫這些世代做什麼事情，這本來就不論是執政或在野，每個人都要去做的，可是你要把它作為是法令的部分就要從長計議，這個是我們今天認為不宜因為這樣子的答詢，然後好像下一個階段就要進入逐條，哇！這個好危險，那公聽會是一場、兩場、三場？所以我們真的要拜託，一個好的議題千萬不要把它變成是一個大家對立的議題，這是很可怕的！我們現在的社會禁不起再對立了，大家希望的是smooth，希望能夠是你、我互相關心，你、我互相往上提升，所以千萬不能用一個法令又變成是一個政治的問題、世代的問題、產業的問題，所以這是我今天在這裡非常語重心長，壯世代倡議我絕對第一個舉手，但是當要進入到法令會有疊床架屋、會造成世代差異的時候，那麼我們就要從長計議，這是我對於今天這樣的一個案子的立場跟看法。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
那麼現在我們要進入到另外一個部分就是長照，其實我們對於長照的議題，從小英總統上任到現在賴清德總統說要往上提升到3.0。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
呂次長建德：沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳委員亭妃：我們也看到整個長照基金的預算，從2019年開始，其實幾乎都是300億以上這樣的數額，甚至是越往上，到了2023年的時候已經高達679億，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
呂次長建德：是的，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳委員亭妃：然後在明年的部分，我們所提出的是879億，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
呂次長建德：沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳委員亭妃：但是非常遺憾，現在預算還在空中飛，還沒有進到立法院的真正審議當中。另外一個要跟次長分享的是，當我們從300億到600億、到800億，甚至到要接近900億。請問你們有沒有反觀做了這些之後真的有keep到每個長者的需求嗎？你們有沒有去做通盤檢討？或是隨時的檢討、滾動式檢討，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
呂次長建德：報告委員，非常佩服委員對於這一部分的關心，我想兩個重點，第一個，剛剛委員說，我們預算增加，我再補充一個數字，如果再加上原民會還有其他相關部會的話，明年賴總統給我們的預算，長照部分是927億，這是第一個。另外第二個委員也非常關心的就是，對於各個部分，特別是對於目前這些長者的部分，我跟委員報告，我們現在有擬定一個3.0裡面的策略，其實2.0已經做得很好，我們目前有個精進策略，最主要就是對於輕、中、重不同CMS的各個層級，我們都會有個別化的整體服務計畫。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳委員亭妃：好，這個計畫很好，可是我要問的是，你們有沒有回歸到基層去了解你所做的這些計畫是不是就只是計畫，還是真正有讓需要的人拿到他需要的幫助？這很重要哦！你要聽懂我的意思，我們都來自基層。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
呂次長建德：是，了解，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳委員亭妃：你知道嗎？有一個里長都在幫大家做這些長照的宣導，幫市政府做長照的宣導，但是他有一次哭著來找我，他說：「委員，我自己的先生用到，我才知道原來在關鍵需要的時候束手無策。」為什麼？什麼叫關鍵的時候？當他先生要去看病的時候，要去排交通車排不到，可是看醫生是有先預約時間的，今天我有看到你們的交通接送服務是有的，還有輔具居家無障礙環境改善服務是有的，照顧及專業服務是有的，他跟我講說他當里長，他都在幫政府宣導長照2.0，長照可以有什麼樣的協助、幫忙，然後可以怎麼跟政府申請，要多多利用，可是當他自己要使用的時候他用不到，而且不知道要找誰去幫忙，所以我今天會在這裡提出，是因為你沒有辦法感受到他的那種心裡的痛，他本身是里長，是第一線在幫政府宣傳的，所以我才會說你的計畫單純就是計畫，就是在消化預算的計畫，還是真正讓每個需要的人的家中可以使用到，讓他真正能夠拿到我們的協助，而讓這個家庭有所改善，不會因為有一個長照的病人而讓整個家人跟家庭都變成一片黑暗，我們的長照不就是這樣嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
呂次長建德：是，沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳委員亭妃：我們現在在協助，不就是我們要幫大家，所以我今天用這個故事，我自己直接……但你說我可以幫他嗎？我也幫不了他，最無奈的是我也幫不了他，為什麼？因為他是要有專車，他不是隨便的車子都可以載。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
呂次長建德：沒錯。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳委員亭妃：這個專車量夠嗎？為什麼會有人排不到？為什麼大家要搶？這就是問題。次長，再麻煩你，這個部分好好地思考一下問題出在哪裡。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
呂次長建德：好的。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳委員亭妃：這只是冰山一角，我只是拿出這個交通車的例子，你要不要再去盤整，到底我們有多少問題是沒有辦法直接複製在每個需要的家庭當中，再拜託，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
呂次長建德：好的，非常感謝委員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
主席：謝謝，謝謝陳委員、謝謝部長還有次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][1] |
接續我們請鄭正鈐委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
160 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林淑芬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳昭姿 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
廖偉翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
陳菁徽 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
王育敏 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
劉建國 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
楊曜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
63 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-24 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1139001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1139001_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查委員吳春城等42人擬具「壯世代政策與產業發展促進法草案」案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1139001_00002 |
| IVOD_ID |
156062 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/156062 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-2-26,19-1 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
19 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-24T10:00:49+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-24T10:12:47+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |