| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c08b8ebdc8e3065dd77d0e3f90e6d564009fd1c3043021e96f892b6d7a78c0a73ed662baa63b46f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:43:08 - 10:55:43 |
| 影片長度 |
755 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好,下一位我們請鍾佳濱委員發言主席、財政委員、先進列席政務集團所長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生那麼有請我們的鄭部長還有國兩司的孟司長好,孟司長稍微好等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
64.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好部長好師長好來部長那個我昨天齁司法法制委員會安排考察你知道吧部長我們去看屏東地院和屏東地檢那麼我們是希望未來能夠留住司法人才為屏東鄉親服務不管是法官還是檢察官我們要考量他們的居住需求而且未來的司法園區能夠考量到便民可能像包括行政執行署他們這些相關的機構都能納進來請問你知不知這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
90.98 |
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委員對我們非常的感謝委員的對我們的支持好謝謝那後續請你要指派專人我希望包括跟行政執行署還有國產署還有司法院都會邀請他們那當然最重要的就是要敦請我們屏東縣政府一起來共同參與希望部長來用力推動好不好謝謝來我們來看一下來請問部長有沒有看到這個新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
91.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.769 |
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外國人在外國犯了罪逃到台灣要如何論罪?這個新聞說有個西班牙裔的他義大利色詐騙來到台灣之後呢身份就接入了後來您知道台灣要怎麼處理嗎?你有知道這個新聞嗎?這個有這樣的一個新聞那他怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
111.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
137.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個移民署齁移民署說什麼移民署有在要限期出境要驅逐出境要請就是有10月10號有通知他到岸說是要在台灣把他抓起來審理還是引渡回學去西班牙還是義大利還是要驅逐出境你覺得現在是要求出境要求出境好那台灣跟西班牙義大利國際刑事組織有沒有互助條約我們怎麼樣掌握這些國際通緝犯在台的動向這個我是請市長來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有簽司法互助條約的民型式的這些有這些國家11國有引渡條約的就9國那跟那些沒有簽條約的國家怎麼去做合作怎麼做互助部長怎麼做市長簡單講 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
台灣人在台灣涉案之後跑到日本去 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
184.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
192.34 |
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怎麼辦?我們有一個2023年有臺日有簽訂司法合作備忘錄可以視訊詢問還是可以引渡回臺? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
222.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
有關台日的這個合作備忘錄是在法律的一些相關的資料交換上面有這樣的一個所以跟涉案人的部分沒有關聯還不達到來我們往下看現在就規定啦聽說有一個涉及到目前這個檢聯正在調查中的案子的關係人呢可能是證人可能要傳喚他已經跑到日本去了那麼結果呢這個人在日本日本政府可以怎麼處理他他可以一直躲在日本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.921 |
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247.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
先不要問司長了,部長你覺得呢?但是媒體說除非遭驅逐出境,因為台日沒有簽司法附註,沒有辦法遣返,是不是這樣子?是這樣子嗎?所以只要這個人沒有違反日本的法律,就可以繼續停留在日本,我們無奈他何,對不對?是不是這樣子?在日本沒有違法,日本就不會驅逐他出境嗎?有沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
275.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
其實過往這種例子我們的警方都會設法透過比如說國際刑警組織或者是跟日本的這個警方透過警方的這個合作關係然後希望他們能夠怎麼樣他在日本沒有犯法日本警方奈他何其實我們很多在第三國犯罪的這些台灣的在台灣犯罪他在日本沒有犯罪你怎麼到日本警方把他送出來這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
279.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
部長知道原因了往下看所以其實這個是互助啦相對的台灣人在外國犯罪我們可不可以把他引渡回國我們也看到一些我們當然是反對毒品的販運但是的確我們看到一些個案有些台灣的年輕人在泰國在東南亞這些國家是對毒品管制很嚴格的他幫人家帶登機箱被抓到了關在泰國的監獄裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
302.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
312.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你覺得這樣的臺灣的人法務部會希望將國人引渡回臺來臺灣接受這個論罪判刑甚至接受我們的剿制嗎那我想這個引渡也就是回國來接受是嗎那這些泰國有沒有沒有嘛越南有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
325.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
342.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員我們跟泰國跟越南都沒有簽署任何引渡的條約都沒有也沒有任何的互助嗎所以如果國人因為在其他國家像泰國或越南不慎犯了當地的重罪他大概就注定要在那邊關一輩子很可能是這樣嗎是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
343.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
368.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
您現在是說如果他在那邊當地犯罪被判刑被入監復刑的那個是涉及到受刑人移交的問題是那怎麼移交我們有沒有也是有司法互助的範圍嗎我們有受刑人移交法有受刑人移交部長那就是我今天要問的往下我們的結論小潔請是不是積極推動我們國兩司的國際的司法互助防止嫌犯出國也能夠順利不管是引渡還是移交回國內來處刑來執行可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
396.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員會提起來處理我們會提起來處理好來我們往下看來部長最近有一些社會新聞未照車牌很多人被害你覺得為什麼什麼樣的案件會未照車牌舉個例子以前看警匪騙歹徒作案之前搶銀行都是先偷髒車偷了車髒車做完案燒掉對不對是不是這樣子為什麼要用髒車犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
397.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他被追查嘛 知道斷點嘛那什麼樣的人會衛照車牌知道斷點你知道嗎衛照車牌他車子是他的啊車牌掛別人的然後呢他繼續使用你知道衛照車牌有什麼好處嗎衛照車牌只要他不違規車牌的原主也不知道跟監的人也不知道所以等到查到要下手逮到的車發現根本 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
423.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
424.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
委員會主管列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
440.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
467.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我有去報私嘛是不是這樣子我有去報私那基本上大概作案就跟我無關了嘛而且我報私之後警方會幫忙查這個是髒車歹徒拿去作案可能容易被抓到所以往下看現在這個偽造車牌呢就是因為車主不知道沒有人去報案車子也沒有掛也沒有報私所以呢他繼續用這個車輛的去作案製造的斷點是不是這樣那他這段時間的交通違規都算誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
468.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
算原車主的啊 那車主怎麼辦 吃罰單 然後呢 要去監理站 要去撤銷 要去舉證然後呢 還要換車牌 部長你知道嗎 換車牌要不要錢 要這又跑這些行政作業 要不要時間 要然後呢 這個民眾 無辜的民眾呢 被人家調查 他舉證說 那個車子不是我的 要不要花工夫 要那部長 怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你知道衛照車牌有多少重嗎?有多重的罪嗎?憲法212它是一年以下及與跟九千的罰金一年以下所以就知道了吧偷車拿髒車去翻案跟衛照車牌哪個罪比較重? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
當然是偷車去追比較重啊衛照車牌什麼但是這是民國17年修正通過的當時說考量到什麼基於謀生意識便利這是民國17年的法律啊民國113年欸衛照車牌算不算衛照公文書特寵文書那為什麼衛照特寵文書是重罪啊那為什麼只有判一年以下因為刑法212條嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
538.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
542.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他把他排除在未照特種文書之外部長要不要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
543.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
569.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這部分我們已經納入那個行修小組的會議那個在11月份下個月就會開會你們怎麼方向修法方向是把它排除視同偽造文書還是不是偽造文書但是加重提醒他有兩種的一個方式立法的方式一種是在直接在212來修法因為一種就是比照附照條例附集法再倒交條例新增特別的那要罰多少要怎麼處罰怎麼量刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
572.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那這部分還在研修小組再做一個討論那不會是一年以下吧偷車要多少年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
583.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
587.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
市長請說報告委員這個212的議題本來在這個15號就是前天的行修小組要討論但因為我們討論的方向有兩種一個就是212把它廢除掉並到就直接用公文書的刑徒來處罰另外一種方向就212加重刑徒的一個方式那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
613.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
638.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
15號來不及討論會下個月就排進去我們勤修城部部長本期有提案部長那你覺得要加重處刑吧要不要這個應該可以要調整行程要調整但是我不只要求這個還要怎樣還要補償什麼受害人受害人不是犯罪受害人被偽造車牌車主他花的這些時間這些困擾要不要補償他怎麼補償偽造車牌的人能夠補償這個車牌的原車主嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
641.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
652.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你們有沒有一個犯罪被害人的一個基金請問一下我的車牌被人家偽造了我花那麼多功夫還繳了錢這些麻煩事我得不到任何補償嗎有沒有補償的機制來 次長黃次長 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
犯罪備案補償法他有特定的犯罪才可以遵守這個不是屬於那個特定的補償法我知道他有民事的訴訟程序這個錢不是很多你叫每一個未到車牌的車主去做這件事情不只是浪費司法資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
677.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個案子很簡單嘛 法官看一看你要民事訴訟 那就賠多少啊 大概有個數字啊你們難道要逼著我們法院 跟這個車牌的車主 被害人 去走這個途徑嗎有沒有辦法在我們的法制上 予以一個通案的設定讓他很簡易的 就可以得到補償部長 有沒有可能考慮一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
699.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
711.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我們可以嚴厲可以嚴厲好我們希望偽造車牌這幾年基礎越演越烈都跟詐騙有關以前偷車拿張車去犯案都是暴力犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
713.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
都是暴力犯罪而且只要車子被偷你掛屍可能會被抓到現在的犯罪阿他是用偽造車牌用這個車子的行屍我們不是在打詐司法中有講到嗎你們用行動去監視他偽造車牌就是製造詐騙集團去跟相關的受害人接觸造成的斷點所以他才會這麼多那現在這麼多如果不及時的修法遏止會有越來越多不只是詐騙案還有很多車牌被偽造的車主 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
742.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
743.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
法定人數不足 |
| gazette.lineno |
809 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：（10時43分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請鄭部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩鄭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：還有國兩司的孟司長。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：好，孟司長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：召委好。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長好，司長好。部長，昨天司法及法制委員會安排考察，你知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長，我們去看屏東地院和屏東地檢。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：我們希望未來能夠留住司法人才，為屏東鄉親服務，不管是法官還是檢察官，我們希望考量他們的居住需求，而且未來的司法園區能夠考量到便民，可能像包括行政執行署這些相關的機構都能納進來，請問你支不支持這樣的做法？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們非常地感謝委員對我們的支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝，後續請你要指派專人，我希望包括跟行政執行署、還有國產署、還有司法院，都會邀請他們，當然最重要的就是要敦請我們屏東縣政府一起來共同參與，希望部長用力推動，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。我們來看一下，請問部長，有沒有看到這個新聞？外國人在外國犯了罪逃到臺灣，要如何論罪？這個新聞說有個西班牙裔的義大利人涉及詐騙，來到臺灣之後身分就揭露了，後來您知道臺灣要怎麼處理嗎？您知道這個新聞嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：有這樣的新聞。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：他怎麼處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：移民署…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：移民署說什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：移民署有在…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：要限期出境？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：命令他出境…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：要驅逐出境？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：就是在10月10號有通知他到案說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：你覺得是要在臺灣把他抓起來審理，還是引渡回去西班牙還是義大利，還是要驅逐出境？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：現在是要求出境。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，要求出境。那臺灣跟西班牙、義大利國際刑事組織有沒有互助條約？我們怎麼樣掌握這些國際通緝犯在臺的動向？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個我還是請司長…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：簡單講，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，OK。我們看一下，目前有簽司法互助條約的、民刑事的有這些國家，共11國，有引渡條約的就9國。跟那些沒有簽條約的國家怎麼去做合作、怎麼做互助？部長，怎麼做？司長，簡單講。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
孟司長玉梅：簡單來講，如果我們跟其他國家之間沒有簽條約的話，我們會依照國際刑事司法互助法的規定，就是基於互惠原則，接受他們的請求之後，請他們依照我們所要求的形式，將這個請求書遞給外交部，外交部會做初審，然後再給我們法務部，我們法務部再來依照是不是符合我們國際刑事司法互助法的規定來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：我們來看一個很具體的例子，臺灣人在臺灣涉案之後跑到日本去，怎麼辦？2023年臺日有簽訂司法合作備忘錄，可以視訊詢問，還是可以引渡回臺？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
孟司長玉梅：有關臺日的合作備忘錄，是在法律的一些相關資料交換上面有這樣的一個合作備忘錄…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：所以跟涉案人的部分沒有關聯？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
孟司長玉梅：還不達到…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：還不達到。現在就規定了，聽說有一個涉及到目前檢廉正在調查中的案子關係人，可能是證人，可能要傳喚，他已經跑到日本去了，結果這個人在日本，日本政府可以怎麼處理他？他可以一直躲在日本嗎？先不要問司長，部長，你覺得呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我對這個…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：但是媒體說除非遭驅逐出境，因為臺日沒有簽司法互助，沒辦法遣返，是不是這樣子？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：是這樣嘛。所以只要這個人沒有違反日本的法律，就可以繼續停留在日本，我們對他莫可奈何，對不對？是不是這樣子？他在日本只要沒有違法，日本就不會驅逐他出境嗎？有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
孟司長玉梅：其實過往這種例子，我們的警方都會設法透過比如國際刑警組織，或者是跟日本的警方，透過警方的合作關係…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：然後呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
孟司長玉梅：然後希望他們能夠遣返…… |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：怎麼樣？他在日本沒有犯法，日本警方奈他何？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
孟司長玉梅：其實我們很多在第三國犯罪的臺灣涉嫌人…… |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：在臺灣犯罪，他在日本沒有犯罪，你怎麼叫日本警方把他送出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
孟司長玉梅：這個部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長，知道原因了喔。所以其實這個是互助，相對地，臺灣人在外國犯罪，我們可不可以把他引渡回國？我們當然是反對毒品的販運，但是的確我們看到一些個案，在泰國、在東南亞這些國家對毒品管制很嚴格的，有些臺灣的年輕人幫人家帶登機箱，被抓到了，關在泰國的監獄裡面，你覺得這樣的臺灣人，法務部會希望將國人引渡回臺，來臺灣接受論罪、判刑，甚至接受我們的矯治嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我想引渡也就是讓他回國來接受……用這樣的方法。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：是，這些泰國有沒有？沒有嘛。越南有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
孟司長玉梅：委員，我們跟泰國、跟越南都沒有簽署任何的引渡的條約。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：沒有嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
孟司長玉梅：都沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：都完全沒有，也沒有任何的互助嘛。所以如果國人因為在其他國家像泰國或越南，不慎犯了當地的重罪，他大概就注定要在那邊關一輩子，很可能是這樣，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
孟司長玉梅：您現在是說如果他在那邊當地犯罪被判刑、入監服刑了…… |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：對啊。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
孟司長玉梅：那個是涉及到受刑人移交的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：是，那怎麼移交？也是有司法互助的範圍嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
孟司長玉梅：我們有跨國移交受刑人法。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：有受刑人移交？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
孟司長玉梅：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長，那就是我今天要問的。我們的結論小結，是不是請積極推動國際的司法互助，防止嫌犯出國，也能夠順利不管是引渡、還是移交回國內來處刑、來執行，可不可以？願不願意積極來處理？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們會積極來處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好。部長，最近有些社會新聞，偽造車牌，很多人被害，你覺得什麼樣的案件會偽造車牌？我舉個例子，以前看警匪片，歹徒作案、搶銀行之前都是先偷贓車，做完案，再把贓車燒掉，對不對？是不是這樣子？為什麼要用贓車犯罪？怕被追查嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：製造斷點。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：製造斷點嘛。那什麼樣的人會偽造車牌、製造斷點，你知道嗎？偽造車牌，車子是他的，車牌掛別人的，然後他繼續使用，你知道偽造車牌有什麼好處嗎？偽造車牌，只要他不違規，車牌的原主也不知道，跟監的人也不知道，所以等到查到要下手，逮到了車，發現根本不知道是誰的車，是不是這樣子？製造斷點。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][1] |
我們往下看，目前假車牌氾濫預估已達到2,000件，贓車作案，被害人能夠及時發覺，而且還有很重要的，如果我的車被偷拿去作案，我有沒有責任？部長，你知道嗎？如果我的車被人家拿去作案，我怎麼樣免責？我有去報失嘛，是不是這樣子？我有去報失，那基本上大概作案就跟我無關了，而且我報失之後警方會幫忙查，這個是贓車，歹徒拿去作案可能容易被抓到。所以，我們往下看，現在這個偽造車牌就是因為車主不知道，沒有人去報案，車子也沒有報失，所以他可以繼續用這個車輛去作案，製造了斷點，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：那他這段時間的交通違規都算誰的？算原車主的。那車主怎麼辦？吃罰單。然後呢？要去監理站，要去撤銷，要去舉證，然後還要換車牌。部長，你知道嗎？換車牌要不要錢？要。跑這些行政作業要不要時間？要。然後這個無辜的民眾被人家調查，他要舉證說那個車子不是我的，要不要花功夫？要。那部長，怎麼辦？你知道偽造車牌有多重的罪嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：根據刑法第二百一十二條，它是處一年以下有期徒刑、拘役或九千元以下的罰金。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：一年以下啊！所以你就知道了吧！偷車拿贓車去犯案跟偽造車牌哪個罪比較重？當然是偷車的罪比較重，偽造車牌比較輕，但是這是民國17年修正通過的，當時說考量到什麼？偽造車牌多是基於謀生及一時便利，這是民國17年的法律，現在已是民國113年了耶！偽造車牌算不算偽造公文書？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：特種文書。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：既是特種文書，偽造特種文書是重罪，那為什麼偽造車牌只有判一年以下？因為刑法第二百一十二條把它排除在偽造特種文書之外嘛。部長，要不要修法？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們已經納入刑修小組的會議，大概在11月份，下個月就會開會討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：你們的修法方向是什麼？是把它排除，視同偽造文書；還是雖不算偽造文書，但是加重其刑？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：它有兩種立法的方式，一種是直接在第二百一十二條來修法，另外一種就是比照護照條例、戶籍法，在道交條例新增特別的刑責…… |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：那要罰多少？要怎麼處罰？怎麼量刑？ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這部分還是要研修小組再做一個討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：那不會是一年以下吧？偷車要多少年？竊盜罪幾年？ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：竊盜罪是五年以下。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：五年以下，所以我就不要去偷贓車了，偽造車牌就好了，一年以下嘛。方向是加重多少，加重到幾年？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們是不是請司長來？ |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：來，司長請說。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
郭司長永發：報告委員，第二百一十二條這個議題，本來在這個月15號，就是前天的刑修小組要討論，但因為我們討論的方向有兩種，一個就是把第二百一十二條廢除掉，就併到直接用公文書的刑度來處罰…… |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
郭司長永發：另外一種方式，就是將第二百一十二條的刑度加重。因為15號來不及討論，下個月就會排進去我們的刑修小組來討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，下個月。部長，本席有提案，部長，你覺得要加重處刑吧，要不要？ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個應該要調整刑期。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：要調整，但我不只要求這個，還要怎樣？還要補償受害人。我說的受害人不是指犯罪被害人，而是被偽造車牌的車主，他花的這些時間，遭受的這些困擾，要不要補償他？怎麼補償？偽造車牌的人能夠補償被偽造車牌的原車主嗎？你們有沒有一個犯罪被害人的基金？請問一下，我的車牌被人家偽造了，我花那麼多的功夫，還繳了錢，這些麻煩事，我得不到任何補償嗎？有沒有補償的機制？ |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個在民事的話…… |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：來，次長，請黃次長來。 |
| gazette.blocks[90][0] |
黃次長謀信：我們的犯罪被害人補償法，它要特定的犯罪才可以申請補償…… |
| gazette.blocks[91][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[92][0] |
黃次長謀信：這個不是屬於那個特定的犯罪…… |
| gazette.blocks[93][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：我知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[94][0] |
黃次長謀信：所以他要另外循民事求償。 |
| gazette.blocks[95][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：他要循民事的訴訟程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[96][0] |
黃次長謀信：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[97][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：這個錢不是很多，你叫每一個被偽造車牌的車主去做這件事情，不只浪費人力，更是浪費司法資源耶！這個案子很簡單嘛，法官看一看，你要民事訴訟，那就賠多少，大概有個數字，你們難道要逼著我們法院跟被偽造車牌的車主被害人去走這個途徑嗎？有沒有辦法在我們的法制上予以一個通案的設定，讓他很簡易的就可以得到補償。部長，有沒有可能考慮一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[98][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們可以研議。 |
| gazette.blocks[99][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：可以研議？好。偽造車牌這幾年之所以越演越烈都跟詐騙有關，以前偷車拿贓車去犯案都是暴力犯罪，都是暴力犯罪，而且只要車子被偷，車主一掛失很容易被抓到。現在的犯罪是用偽造車牌，用這個車子的行駛，我們不是在打詐四法中有講到嗎？你們去監視他的行動，偽造車牌的目的就是在詐騙集團去跟相關的受害人接觸時製造斷點，所以它才會這麼多。現在有這麼多偽造車牌，如果不及時修法遏止，會有越來越多，不只是詐騙案，還有很多車牌被偽造的車主會有很大的損失。所以是不是我們考量一下，要補償這些受害人，好不好？研議一下。可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[100][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。我們去研議。 |
| gazette.blocks[101][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好。謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][0] |
主席：現在依照先前的宣告，我們休息10分鐘。 |
| gazette.blocks[102][1] |
休息（10時55分） |
| gazette.blocks[102][2] |
繼續開會（11時5分） |
| gazette.blocks[103][0] |
主席（鍾委員佳濱）：好，我們繼續開會。 |
| gazette.blocks[103][1] |
現在有請翁委員曉玲質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
276 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-2-36-5 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
193 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-10-17 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1138501 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1138501_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1138501_00003 |
| IVOD_ID |
155693 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155693 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-5 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-17T10:43:08+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-17T10:55:43+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |