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| 委員名稱 |
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主席有請我們人事長請說人事長委員長人事長早我想今天我們主席安排這個議程有關政府機關導入AI提升效能的這個議程這個如果人事長的印象這是在兩個禮拜前9月30 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.694 |
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56.477 |
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我們這個人事總處的業務報告的時候本席在這裡花了10分鐘的時間整個質詢的時間就在跟這個人事長討論有關政府使用AI的所以可能是我跟主席的所見略同或者是主席受到本席的啟發知道說這個我們人總在這個政府導入這個AI裡面扮演的核心角色核心角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.489 |
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77.68 |
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那這個上次我花了10分鐘也提出了三個要求那這個是不是人事長會擔心說那我是不是上個禮拜兩個禮拜前全部都問完了今天不知道問什麼了不過其實10分鐘是只短情長我們有關AI的部分我今天還是有很多要請教人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
81.199 |
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104.493 |
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主席安排這樣的議程很重要也是因為本屆的內閣在520成立的時候就宣示本屆的內閣就是一個行動AI創新內閣也就是說換句話說從剛剛講到現在我們人事總處就是在本屆內閣裡面扮演最核心的角色也就是我們政府使用設成是AI的核心角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.115 |
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126.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這個所以在520宣誓之後呢在6月6號我們行政院也核定了有關提升行政院公務人員人工智慧智能實施計畫對不對對6月6號核定了齁其中有五大內容這五大內容裡面有三大內容是我們人事總處的職責兩大內容是出發部的職責對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
130.205 |
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145.712 |
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所以上一次的質詢裡面我就針對這個三這個我們人總的這個三大這內容的業務提出三個要求第一個就是把AI計畫要這個他的成果要定期盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
146.992 |
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162.84 |
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成果的部分要定期盤點,要檢討。第二個,把AI列入公務人員學習必修課程,這個人事長記得吧。第三,把AI納入115年度原額評鑑計畫當中,這個人事長也承諾了,對不對?是。好,那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
169.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
189.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
也就是說我們這個這次那個編列的這個號稱編列百億AI預算並且合訂了這樣子的一個實施內容但是我們知道說除了這個AI的這個業務除了我們人種以外我們其他速發部我們的速發部跟國科會也扮演重要的角色了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
191.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
請國科會副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
234.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
副主委我時間有限所以要趕快講我們這個AI基本法草案我們在7月15號預告開始預告60天應該是在9月13完成預告了那期間呢也有許多這個民間團體包括市改會包括跆拳會都對我們這個AI基本法的草案在預告期間提出了一些建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.569 |
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254.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
包括個人隱私的問題、數位落差的問題等等這些部分請問一下副主委我們接下來這個草案送冤我們有沒有會針對這些部分再做檢討報告委員這個部分我們已經納入這個考量當中那也修正在我們的基本法草案裡面有修正嗎?很好很好那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我們在AI基本法在立法以前還沒有完成立法之前我目前行政院是使用行政指導原則在進行有關AI使用的管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
301.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我們在上一年有一個AI的使用的一個所屬機關使用生成式AI的參考指引有第一個參考指引對參考指引這個是行政指導原則行政指導原則那另外有關操作的部分有操作的指導也有這個各項AI管理指引技術指南就技術的部分有這個技術指南那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
323.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個我看了這個國科會的基本法草案齁在公告預告期間的看了這個草案齁總共內容18條啦齁18條裡面呢我們盤點這18條裡面總共有13條他開頭三個字都一樣是哪三個字 主委欸副主委來 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
325.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
政府應也就是說在基本法裡面這個18條裡面有13條都是政府應幹嘛政府應該幹嘛政府應該幹嘛總共13條都是規範政府的啦那這個有這麼多政府應應做的事情這個我就要請問人事長這個我們最核心的角色我們這裡人工智慧法裡面這麼多政府應作為的事項我們的人力足夠嗎現有的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好好沒有關係這個這個人事長未來這個基本法通過之後政府應該作為的事情有這麼多了以現有的人力來講我認為這個人力一定的調整是勢在必行 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不管是公務人員的緣額也好不管是約聘僱人員也好你未來政府有這麼多政府應作為的事項我們應該提早就我們的這個中央機關總緣額法應該要提早做這個檢討還有我們有關這個約聘僱人員我們本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
本委員會在這個今年5月的時候有提出一個臨時提案請我們人總提出有關這個有關AI的這個約聘僱人員人力使用檢討結果我看了你們檢討的書面報告基本上是沒有檢討只是把現狀列出來而已沒有檢討未來的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以這部分請我因為時間關係我請請這個人事長我們這個人事緣和調整在這個基本法架構之下絕對是勢在必行的所以請我們人總提早因應好不好謝謝謝謝委員那接下來另外一個比較比較這個我個人認為是不是應該政府應該考慮的這個我不曉得是國科會的職權還是人總的職權這是有關這個美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
452.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
463.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
美國在這個今年的這個3月28號由這個賀錦麗副總統他提出了而且已經開始實施就是每個政府機關都必須設置AI長 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
465.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
人工智慧長就是這個Chief AI Officer這是CAIO他們現在也已經開始美國的這個包括他們的國防部包括他們的網路安全局都已經開始都已經設置了這個AI長而且他們是要求未來每一個機關都必須設置AI長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個部分我們有沒有考慮是不是國科會先講我們在基本法架構裡面有沒有這個部分報告委員基本法應該沒有規範到這個沒有規範到這個部分所以要請人事總長這個要考量如果要考量這個我再看到這個我們國科會的基本法裡面這個列在如果要設這個AI長列在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
517.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第一個這是我們現在基本法草案第12條政府應建立AI應用負責機制阿這個主管機關應該就是人種啦報告委員那是速發部啦應用的負責機制是速發部嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
549.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
應用整個應用在政府機關的應用政策的規劃推動是在沈發部那人總扮演的角色是公務人員人工智慧的培訓在公務人員這一個區塊我剛提的這個美國所設置的這個人工智慧長AI長 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們有沒有考慮因為現在事實上我們資安我們在各個政府機關現在都有設置資安長這個是已經各個政府機關都有設置我想AI長的部分是因為那個人工智慧基本法裡面現在沒有規定現在沒有規定對但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是按照剛剛這樣大家討論的結果有關政府建立AI應用負責機制應該是訴發部來規劃就是說我們在修法的過程中不斷的在討論是要分級還是分類那因為歐盟是分級美國是分類那分類的基礎就是說不同的政府機關這個我理解啦我是請我們訴發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
601.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
能夠在考慮這個未來這個AI的這個使用上面在評估確認AI應用於哪些用途他對影響這個國民的安全跟權利這個部分設置在各機關設置AI長我個人認為是有必要的他不一定是常設的但是他可以像資安長一樣他是一個專責負責的人好不好我們請蘇發部來研議那蘇發部既然上來我就順便問蘇發部一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我看到你們在今年9月30號這個我們人事長跟我們這個國科會請回了最後就是再請問蘇法部我在9月30號看到你們表示齁你們預計在12月釋出政府機關AI應用指引對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我要請問就是說你們要釋出將來12月預計要釋出的這個政府機關AI使用指引應用指引跟現行的行政院及所屬機關使用生成式AI參考指引有什麼不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
662.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
跟委員報告他是一個上位跟上位的指導概念還是一個補充的概念還是一個取而代之的概念用這個新的公佈的指引來取代舊的指引是什麼樣的就AI這件事情當初內閣是決定說指引先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
682.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
704.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那指引先行後面再立法那指引先行就是說國科會他先訂了一個指引但是因為這個指引沒辦法包含各部會不同的使用情境比如說也就是說我這樣理解你的意思是說現在現行的已經公佈在實施的行政院及所屬機關使用生成式AI參考指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
705.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
732.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個部分還不夠所以你們速發部要所要在12月要提出的政府機關AI應用指引是補充性的嗎行政院提的這個指引是管制類的然後我們提的是應用類那這個應用類必須有各部會的應用指引先出來以後我們再去取也就是並行的就對了對那目前事實上我看到相當多的部會都已經都已經有訂定指引了但還沒有全部了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
749.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對,因為這個是一個有button up的過程,就是各部會根據自己的應用情境去定出應用之意,然後抒發部這邊會再做彙整所以說所屬機關現行的這個是,你們說你們所做的是應用類的,那現行的是什麼類的?管制類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
752.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
好 這個部分我會看你們到時候所提出來這個政府機關AI應用指引我看這個內容跟現行的指引之間的有沒有相關的競合或者是這個抵觸的地方我再來觀察好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝沈委員 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:26:46 - 09:39:37 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長暨相關部會列席就「政府機關導入AI提升效能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| IVOD_ID |
155400 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/155400 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-4 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-14T09:26:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-14T09:39:37+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |