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1875 |
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266 |
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賴委員士葆：（15時34分）謝謝韓院長。主席以及各位先進，我們有請行政院的卓院長。 |
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主席：再請卓院長備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：賴委員好。 |
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賴委員士葆：院長你好，你今天很紅耶！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不會啦！ |
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賴委員士葆：你今天很紅。 |
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卓院長榮泰：不會啦、不會啦！ |
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賴委員士葆：因為大家都在問：哇！你一期電費15萬是怎麼用的？有夠紅啊！你google一下，都是卓榮泰用電15萬，2個月15萬，1個月7萬5,000元。從早上到現在，難道你的幕僚沒有告訴你為什麼會花這麼多錢？ |
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卓院長榮泰：委員…… |
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賴委員士葆：早上也問，下午到現在沒有答案耶！ |
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卓院長榮泰：委員應該沒有看早上我對其他委員的答復。 |
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賴委員士葆：你答復不清楚，我看了不清楚，你說你們查看看有什麼地方電器壞了等等的…… |
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卓院長榮泰：不是、不是，委員，1分鐘讓我答復可以嗎？ |
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賴委員士葆：你什麼答復？ |
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卓院長榮泰：520之後裡面還在整修，所以我在6月中下旬開始才陸續有一些會議在那裡開…… |
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賴委員士葆：雞同鴨講啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：6月中到7月以後，我才進去…… |
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賴委員士葆：沒有說你浪費，沒有人在說你浪費…… |
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卓院長榮泰：事實是這樣陳述。 |
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賴委員士葆：你住的時間不多，可是大家問一個堂堂的行政院長，過去的宰相，結果你1個月幾度電，你知道嗎？幾度電你知道嗎？1個月，你也不知道啊！都這樣，從早上到現在都沒有認真做功課。 |
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卓院長榮泰：有啦！ |
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賴委員士葆：兩萬度電。 |
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卓院長榮泰：一萬九千多…… |
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賴委員士葆：兩萬度電是什麼概念？ |
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卓院長榮泰：所以我說…… |
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賴委員士葆：來，你知不知道我們現在平均…… |
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卓院長榮泰：我的懷疑是…… |
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賴委員士葆：你聽我講完好不好？我講完再讓你講。你知不知道普羅大眾老百姓平均1個月是多少？幾度電？ |
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卓院長榮泰：也有用100度的啊！ |
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賴委員士葆：我跟你說一個極端值啦！每個月超過1,000度的占2%，我們院長是兩萬度，1個月兩萬度，就是這個最高2%的20倍，大家看了跳起來，我們院長到底是在哪裡啊？在雲端啊！Somewhere in the sky。 |
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卓院長榮泰：委員，你知道那裡面有4棟…… |
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賴委員士葆：不接地氣啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：那裡面有4棟建築物嗎？ |
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賴委員士葆：我知道，那是第二件事情…… |
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卓院長榮泰：怎麼會第二件事情？ |
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賴委員士葆：第二件事情…… |
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卓院長榮泰：好像是我一個人用了兩萬度電一樣。 |
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賴委員士葆：你要面對的就是你的官邸用了兩萬度，沒錯啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是我一個人用兩萬度電嗎？ |
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賴委員士葆：你的官邸用了兩萬度電，這沒有錯啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：對，那裡有4棟建築物。 |
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賴委員士葆：什麼建築物不管，就是你的官邸用了兩萬度電，卓榮泰官邸用了兩萬度電…… |
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卓院長榮泰：這個是不正確的訊息。 |
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賴委員士葆：是我們最高2%的20倍，我就告訴你…… |
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卓院長榮泰：不要用這種簡單的數學…… |
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賴委員士葆：簡單就是這樣。 |
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卓院長榮泰：看一個事實的狀況，那裡有4棟建築物，裡面居住的人不是只有我一個人。 |
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賴委員士葆：是不是都統統開冷氣，郭智輝說不要每個房間開冷氣耶！ |
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卓院長榮泰：不是4個房間啦！是4棟建築物。 |
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賴委員士葆：一樣啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，不是4個房間，是4棟建築。 |
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賴委員士葆：所以你認為兩萬度剛剛好，是吧？不會太多？ |
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卓院長榮泰：什麼？對不起。 |
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賴委員士葆：你認為兩萬度不會太多嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：夏天一過，大家的電都會往下降，但是那裡的用電異常我發現了，也謝謝委員從昨天開始的提醒，我們現在全面來檢修它裡面電力是不是有異常，不可能用到這麼多。 |
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賴委員士葆：太離譜啦！我給你一個數字啦！信義區的頂級豪宅1個月的電費大概3萬，你1個月的電費7萬5，豪宅的2.5倍啦！好，這個問題就到此為止了。 |
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卓院長榮泰：那裡面有4棟建築物，住了非常非常多的人，不是我一個人，委員不能把狀態停在這種錯誤的資訊。 |
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賴委員士葆：第二件事就是…… |
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卓院長榮泰：不能把狀態停在這種不真實的資訊。 |
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賴委員士葆：你就是坐擁耗電這麼大的地方，這樣說就對了啊！ |
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來，我們來看，請問你，這個題目我問過你，我也問過陳建仁，在今年3月我問了陳建仁，我說：「院長啊，5月1號勞動節不要一國兩制啦！有些人就可以放假，有些人不放假，多麼的不方便，我們要不要一國一制，統統放假？」你知道陳建仁怎麼跟我講？我問了我好高興，我覺得不錯耶！我至少幫大家都得分了對不對？看起來今年的5月1號就要放了喔！結果沒有啊！明年5月1號也沒有！我去查了一下，內政部相關的長官還告訴我們相關人員說因為卓院長沒有交代啊！卓院長只要交代就放假啦！請問你全國是不是希望5月1號全面放假？請問你要不要全面放假？ |
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卓院長榮泰：目前依照公務員服務法，我們整年公務員的休假已經達到115到116天，這個已經達到上限，況且今年5月1號也沒有放假，明年我們衡諸…… |
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賴委員士葆：明年也不放啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：各方的意見還沒有辦法有效的共識…… |
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賴委員士葆：什麼時候有共識？ |
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卓院長榮泰：就是各種、各方的意見…… |
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賴委員士葆：什麼時候會有共識？請問你們的態度怎麼樣，你會不會覺得怪怪的？怪怪的啊！比如說今天你要來上班，旁邊你的同仁、替你開車的，他照理講要放，他是勞工，他要放啊，對不對？那其他的公務員不放啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們很多的假日是這樣子啊！ |
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賴委員士葆：那其他的公務員不放啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：很多的假日是這樣子。 |
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賴委員士葆：部長旁邊替他開車的都要放啊，為什麼不放？ |
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卓院長榮泰：請人事長說明一下公務員的放假方式。 |
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蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，因為在整個紀念日及節日實施辦法中內政部會去考慮，這次明年沒…… |
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賴委員士葆：沒有啦，你不要跟我講那麼多，因為你講…… |
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蘇人事長俊榮：沒有啦！明年沒放假的原因，主要就是…… |
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賴委員士葆：人事長…… |
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蘇人事長俊榮：那一天有一些勞工…… |
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賴委員士葆：你回答，回答我，回答我，院長你的態度傾向要放或者不放？或者我不知道？院長我只請問你，我不要人事長，我要問院長。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我剛剛說過已經達到我們放假的上限，這是一個；再來社會的共識…… |
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賴委員士葆：沒有，放假有上限？ |
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卓院長榮泰：公務員服務法…… |
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賴委員士葆：有上限？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們放假加上週休2日是115到116天。 |
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賴委員士葆：你回頭去看一看陳建仁怎麼回答我的？「樂見其成」，非常正面！ |
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卓院長榮泰：但是今年…… |
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賴委員士葆：讓我以為要放了耶！結果不是啊，沒有啊！我覺得…… |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我認為陳院長也一定經過多方的考量跟社會的溝通，所以今年的5月1號…… |
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賴委員士葆：沒有放啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們秉持一樣的溝通繼續進行…… |
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賴委員士葆：明年也沒有放啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：繼續進行溝通。 |
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賴委員士葆：繼續進行溝通？有沒有機會放，我問你有沒有機會放？我問你有沒有機會？有沒有機會嘛！院長讓你講一句。 |
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卓院長榮泰：有沒有機會放假？ |
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賴委員士葆：對，有沒有機會放？明年…… |
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卓院長榮泰：如果社會共識都非常高…… |
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賴委員士葆：有沒有機會啦？ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們可以循……社會共識都非常高…… |
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賴委員士葆：你不要跟我講那麼多條件…… |
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卓院長榮泰：不是…… |
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賴委員士葆：就講有機會或者確定沒有機會這樣子。 |
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卓院長榮泰：我講太快，你又說我獨裁；我講太慢，你又說我拖拉！ |
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賴委員士葆：我從剛剛到現在為止沒有講過你獨裁耶，我不知道你獨裁從哪來的，我從頭到尾、到現在為止還沒有講獨裁，還沒有講過這個字眼。 |
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卓院長榮泰：也許不是啦，我講太快你會說我「獨斷」，這樣可以嗎？ |
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賴委員士葆：我也沒有講你獨斷啦！奇怪咧，我沒有講的話，你把它塞到我嘴巴裡面，I don't accept. I don't buy it. 我不買帳，不可以這樣子喔！ |
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卓院長榮泰：那我這樣說，我不能講太快，否則我會獨斷，我必須要跟社會溝通。 |
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賴委員士葆：我沒有講的話，你不能塞到我嘴巴裡面。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好，我收回來啊！我不能講太快，我不能獨斷，我必須跟社會溝通。 |
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賴委員士葆：好，人事長可以回去了，雖然我知道你想表現，但以後再來。 |
| gazette.blocks[106][1] |
來，我們來看賴總統說AI就是國力，我贊成；把臺灣造成人工智慧之島，沒有人反對，結果亞洲四小龍各位看一看喔！AI的國力，我只比較四小龍，第1名新加坡；南韓15名；香港20名；臺灣25名啊，亞洲四小龍最後一名，丟臉！枉費我們的賴總統拚成這樣！ |
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卓院長榮泰：希望委員我們一起看得起臺灣好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[108][0] |
賴委員士葆：來，來，我還沒講完，你不要急，不要急！ |
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卓院長榮泰：我們一起看得起臺灣啦！ |
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賴委員士葆：來，來，我還沒急喔！國科會有發展一個LLM叫TAIDE你知道嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：大型語言模型啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[112][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，TAIDE語言模型。你知道嗎？結果Lawyer Qualification Results律師資格的檢查，看看我們AI的程度、準確率怎麼樣，結果臺灣才37.8，倒數最後一個！主委啊…… |
| gazette.blocks[113][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請吳主委說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[114][0] |
賴委員士葆：主委你貴姓啊？ |
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卓院長榮泰：吳主委。 |
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吳主任委員誠文：是，謝謝。 |
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賴委員士葆：你看到感覺如何？你難道不會感到不好意思？TAIDE，TAIDE，TAIDE！ |
| gazette.blocks[118][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：有啦，會不好意思啦！連我都不好意思了。 |
| gazette.blocks[119][0] |
賴委員士葆：看到會不好意思啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[120][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：有啦，我們開始在努力了，所以我們未來幾年會快速的成長。 |
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賴委員士葆：院長，我跟你報告請你仔細看喔！第1名你沒有看得很清楚，因為這字太小了，第1名這一家是臺灣的公司呢！臺灣發展的喔！這個代表什麼意思？我們整體的國力，AI的國力，輸給亞洲其他的三小龍。第二個，我們國科會發展的TAIDE輸給臺灣國內的廠家，這才嚴重啊！國家給你那麼多資源，結果却輸了！ |
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吳主任委員誠文：其實國外的AI硬體都是臺灣做的。 |
| gazette.blocks[123][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。 |
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吳主任委員誠文：我們自己的應用，現在才剛開始要起步、要發展，所以將來我們會快速的追趕。 |
| gazette.blocks[125][0] |
賴委員士葆：你要不要弄個KPI啊？院長，我問你啦，給你企圖心，好不好？你什麼時候可以超過香港？ |
| gazette.blocks[126][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：超過新加坡啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[127][0] |
賴委員士葆：香港，不要說新加坡，新加坡是第1名啊！香港是第20名，韓國…… |
| gazette.blocks[128][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：兩年內。 |
| gazette.blocks[129][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩年內喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[130][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[131][0] |
賴委員士葆：喔，我不知道你會不會做兩年耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[132][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，我們的硬體製造相當好，但我們現在全力發展軟體的部分，所以我說我們要進入一個主權AI的應用時代，這個就是主權AI的一個具體表現。 |
| gazette.blocks[133][0] |
賴委員士葆：這我不會管你，你要怎麼說都可以。我只是告訴你，我們不如亞洲三小龍，我們的TAIDE，whatever輸給國內廠家是很丟臉的，再努力一點，好嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[134][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[135][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩年超過韓國，對不對？韓國第15名，我們是第25名啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[136][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：你說韓國啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[137][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，韓國。 |
| gazette.blocks[138][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們一定急起直追。 |
| gazette.blocks[139][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩年可以吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[140][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：3年。 |
| gazette.blocks[141][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼退縮了？香港第20名…… |
| gazette.blocks[142][0] |
吳主任委員誠文：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[143][0] |
賴委員士葆：好啦，請你回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[143][1] |
下一位，請院長請一下央行的楊總裁。 |
| gazette.blocks[144][0] |
主席：麻煩請央行楊總裁備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[145][0] |
賴委員士葆：我對於楊總裁的學經歷、專業啊……雖然我是反對黨，但我都說他的好話耶，他的個性憨厚、老實、坦率、認真努力，不敢忤逆長官，一般是這樣、大家覺得是這樣。咦！這次很奇怪，卓院長8月29號說：不會有限貸令。簡單來講，銀根要寬鬆；賴總統9月1號也說：沒有限貸令。我不管細節啦，我就講一個東西，你們兩位當然希望資金寬鬆、百業發達，大家有錢可賺，資金流動多、流動性（liquidity），大家都知道央行重視這個東西，結果總裁「砰」一個人就說出核彈級的信用管制，這裡面一定有原因，以你這麼溫和的人、這麼憨厚的人、這麼老實的人，怎麼會「砰」一聲說要緊縮？正面打臉卓院長跟蔣總統，不是！是賴總統，不是蔣總統。我馬上改，是賴總統，不是蔣總統。好，你要不要講一下，你看到什麼才一定要做這個東西？你看到什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[146][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我首先跟委員報告，我們院長還有總統講…… |
| gazette.blocks[147][0] |
賴委員士葆：他們的意思是不是資金要寬鬆，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[148][0] |
楊總裁金龍：沒有限貸令…… |
| gazette.blocks[149][0] |
賴委員士葆：資金要寬鬆，對吧？不然我問你，是不是資金要寬鬆？ |
| gazette.blocks[150][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對，我想他們也有講，我的認知就是，當時有一些銀行因為他們的貸款都已經到達30%，第七十二條…… |
| gazette.blocks[151][0] |
賴委員士葆：30%？ |
| gazette.blocks[152][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對，30%，他們到臨界點了、已經到警戒點了…… |
| gazette.blocks[153][0] |
賴委員士葆：土建、土地建築…… |
| gazette.blocks[154][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對，所以他們的…… |
| gazette.blocks[155][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在貸款百分之三十七點多了…… |
| gazette.blocks[156][0] |
楊總裁金龍：30%，所以有一些銀行就採取了限貸令，當時市場跟他們講這個就是限貸令，這是市場給他們的一個名稱，但這是銀行本身自主性的一個限貸令，我們就說限貸令啦。但這個不是我們政府推動的限貸令，這是銀行的自主管理，因為他們要到達那個ceiling了…… |
| gazette.blocks[157][0] |
賴委員士葆：沒有、沒有，等一下，你的意思是說，你看到銀行給房地產的房貸…… |
| gazette.blocks[158][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[159][0] |
賴委員士葆：已經到了滿水位，你不能忍受了，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[160][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不是、不是…… |
| gazette.blocks[161][0] |
賴委員士葆：就這個意思？ |
| gazette.blocks[162][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不是！不是！央行的選擇性信用管制從2020年它就存在了，而這個限貸令是前一陣子，事實上在6、7、8月的時候，是銀行它貸款的…… |
| gazette.blocks[163][0] |
賴委員士葆：總裁，枉費我這麼稱讚你，你都沒有回答我的問題，我的問題是，為什麼你要祭出這麼強烈的信用管制？你還沒有回答我的問題，先不要管限貸令的部分！你看到了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[164][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我們也是認為，銀行的授信過度的集中。 |
| gazette.blocks[165][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，因為我的時間有限，很抱歉，我希望你長話短說，是不是你看到了，如果沒有出手，是有可能引起本土型的金融風暴？有沒有可能？ |
| gazette.blocks[166][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我想是這樣子的，第一個，我們的信用資源要合理的分配，這是第一點；第二點，如果我們的資源沒有做合理的分配、太過集中的時候；如果沒有去注意它的時候，很容易就像日本或是美國，即日本的一個泡沫還有…… |
| gazette.blocks[167][0] |
賴委員士葆：次貸風暴。 |
| gazette.blocks[168][0] |
楊總裁金龍：還有次貸風暴，就是這樣子，但是我們是認為…… |
| gazette.blocks[169][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以你才會在心裡想，如果我沒有出手，臺灣可能步入日本跟美國的次貸風暴，有可能會發生，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[170][0] |
楊總裁金龍：這是一個時間的問題，如果我們現在來出手的時候，那麼這個可能就不會發生；如果我們太接近去出手的時候，這個泡沫會爆掉，所以這是一個時間、距離的問題，而且我也不是說明天就是要bubble了…… |
| gazette.blocks[171][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個就是硬著陸了，那個就是斷崖式了。對此，我有聽到一個聲音說，是因為你看到了臺灣的…… |
| gazette.blocks[172][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我們也不是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[173][0] |
賴委員士葆：你聽我講完，不要緊張，就是你聽到有四、五間中型的銀行，差不多快要有問題了，所以趕快出手，有這回事嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[174][0] |
楊總裁金龍：你再說一次。 |
| gazette.blocks[175][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是你有聽到中型的銀行，因為過度的放貸，快要出問題了，所以你趕快來出手…… |
| gazette.blocks[176][0] |
楊總裁金龍：沒有，就是說它快要出問題…… |
| gazette.blocks[177][0] |
賴委員士葆：有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[178][0] |
楊總裁金龍：沒有！沒有！沒有說它要出問題，沒有這回事，我們只是說，如果大家都是到達這個ceiling的時候，那這樣的話，在貸款上會出亂子。 |
| gazette.blocks[179][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你，大家有沒有到達ceiling？ |
| gazette.blocks[180][0] |
楊總裁金龍：什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[181][0] |
賴委員士葆：大家有沒有到達ceiling？ |
| gazette.blocks[182][0] |
楊總裁金龍：沒有，都是到26%、27%，因為到28%的時候就已經很高了，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[183][0] |
賴委員士葆：ceiling是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[184][0] |
楊總裁金龍：30%。 |
| gazette.blocks[185][0] |
賴委員士葆：30%嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[186][0] |
楊總裁金龍：對！對！對！ |
| gazette.blocks[187][0] |
賴委員士葆：它到了28%啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[188][0] |
楊總裁金龍：28%、27%、26%、25%，都有啦！只是說有一些銀行是這樣子啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[189][0] |
賴委員士葆：剛才有民進黨的委員提到，你這裡面會不會有濫殺無辜？ |
| gazette.blocks[190][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我想委員這樣的懷疑是合理的，但是我也要藉這個機會來跟委員報告，事實上，我們持續的在聆聽、聽取各方的意見，如果有必要的時候，對於那些需要協助的，就是那些我們所稱「無辜的」，我想我們可能會推出相關的協處措施或是排除條款。 |
| gazette.blocks[191][0] |
賴委員士葆：主要就是寬限期…… |
| gazette.blocks[192][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我們的資訊也是很多，我們要聽取各方的…… |
| gazette.blocks[193][0] |
賴委員士葆：等於是你有一個補救的配套措施要出來，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[194][0] |
楊總裁金龍：那個也不是「補救」，也可以說它是配套措施好了！ |
| gazette.blocks[195][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候會出來？ |
| gazette.blocks[196][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我們會儘快。 |
| gazette.blocks[197][0] |
賴委員士葆：1個月，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[198][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我們不用那麼久！ |
| gazette.blocks[199][0] |
賴委員士葆：兩個禮拜？也不用那麼久？ |
| gazette.blocks[200][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，如果有一些人需要來協助的時候，我個人都覺得是儘快、越快越好，這樣才能夠協助他們…… |
| gazette.blocks[201][0] |
賴委員士葆：就你講的我做一個小結：一個禮拜以內提出相關配套，就特殊需要的情況專案處理，這樣對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[202][0] |
楊總裁金龍：我想我們儘快啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[203][0] |
賴委員士葆：你可以接受嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[204][0] |
卓院長榮泰：拜託委員，這要讓央行能夠有充裕的時間妥善因應，蒐集各方反映後，才能做出整套合理的制度…… |
| gazette.blocks[205][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，這個讓他講，他比較專業。總裁，就你剛剛講的話我能不能做一個小結？就是楊金龍總裁看到了銀行的貸款水位不斷接近天花板（ceiling），怕引起本土性、類似日本、美國的次貸風暴，所以不得不痛下殺手，這樣對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[206][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這個講得太嚴重了，太嚴重了！ |
| gazette.blocks[207][0] |
楊總裁金龍：太嚴重了。 |
| gazette.blocks[208][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒有這樣子。 |
| gazette.blocks[209][0] |
楊總裁金龍：這個也不是說馬上就會發生的問題，我們是說如果能夠給我們比較長的時間來做一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[210][0] |
賴委員士葆：總裁，我是替你講話，因為你這一出手得罪院長、得罪總統！他們是希望資金寬鬆耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[211][0] |
卓院長榮泰：沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[212][0] |
楊總裁金龍：不會…… |
| gazette.blocks[213][0] |
卓院長榮泰：不會！我在上次院會當中說要感謝中央銀行在第一時間提醒行庫跟社會大眾，我們是非常肯定的。 |
| gazette.blocks[214][0] |
賴委員士葆：總裁請回，謝謝。我請教韓國瑜院長，抱歉，我很少請教你。請問經濟部郭智輝部長今天不來有沒有跟你請假？他有什麼偉大的公事？講一下，讓我了解一下他是什麼偉大的公事今天不來？ |
| gazette.blocks[215][0] |
主席：跟賴士葆委員報告，時間暫停。郭智輝部長因公赴日本訪問，因此請假。 |
| gazette.blocks[216][0] |
賴委員士葆：日本？你知道哪裡嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[217][0] |
主席：目前沒有，我只知道他的時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[218][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，你人太好了，你說用愛對他，所以他們吃定你了。他去熊本啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[219][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[220][0] |
賴委員士葆：去熊本啦…… |
| gazette.blocks[221][0] |
卓院長榮泰：部長去熊本，因為熊本的重大投資…… |
| gazette.blocks[222][0] |
賴委員士葆：重大什麼投資？台積電也沒有去。不僅僅這個禮拜二他不來，禮拜五他也不來，郭智輝帶頭藐視國會！卓院長，你前幾天才說要各部會首長都要來備詢，結果經濟部長不理你！ |
| gazette.blocks[223][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，我說除了陪總統接見重要外賓，或有特別重要的行程。這一件事郭部長在早先就跟我說了…… |
| gazette.blocks[224][0] |
賴委員士葆：這很重要嗎？重要到比來國會備詢重要？ |
| gazette.blocks[225][0] |
卓院長榮泰：國會備詢當然重要…… |
| gazette.blocks[226][0] |
賴委員士葆：國會這麼重要的地方…… |
| gazette.blocks[227][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們有次長代理…… |
| gazette.blocks[228][0] |
賴委員士葆：讓次長出國就好了…… |
| gazette.blocks[229][0] |
卓院長榮泰：次長代理也是正當、正常的程序。 |
| gazette.blocks[230][0] |
賴委員士葆：他是管經貿的，對電不懂，叫他來沒用，鴨子聽雷，就這麼簡單。 |
| gazette.blocks[231][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們的部長、次長都是在專業上跟委員就教的。 |
| gazette.blocks[232][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不要講外行話！次長都有分工的，請問你是不是管國貿的？貿易的，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[233][0] |
陳次長正祺：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[234][0] |
賴委員士葆：是嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[235][0] |
陳次長正祺：但我也代表部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[236][0] |
賴委員士葆：如果今天問CPTPP，你可以回答。 |
| gazette.blocks[237][0] |
陳次長正祺：楊政委在那邊。 |
| gazette.blocks[238][0] |
賴委員士葆：問ECFA，你可以回答，國發會可以回答。但我問你電，你就ありません，你不知道啊，對不對？院長，要求部會首長不要輕易假借出國就叫不來啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[239][0] |
卓院長榮泰：容許我代替郭部長再向委員跟院長致歉，這確實是非常重要的行程…… |
| gazette.blocks[240][0] |
賴委員士葆：非常重要？ |
| gazette.blocks[241][0] |
卓院長榮泰：今天也有一位首長本來也想請假，但我們認為院會比較重要，還是請他留在這裡。至於郭部長這個是之前跟日方就安排好的行程，早先就跟我講過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[242][0] |
賴委員士葆：我建議，我們都很尊敬、很愛戴韓院長，以後他們部會首長請假不要隨便准，要問清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[243][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我有請郭部長至少要跟秘書長請示過…… |
| gazette.blocks[244][0] |
賴委員士葆：他只有講日本，對不對？唬弄啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[245][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，我現在證實我有請郭部長一定、至少跟秘書長請示過，得到院長首肯才能夠請假。 |
| gazette.blocks[246][0] |
賴委員士葆：我當年在法制委員會當召委時，總統府秘書長游錫堃來跟我請假，我就不准，理由不充分啊！他說那個重要，我說來立法院更重要，因為要面對人民，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[247][0] |
卓院長榮泰：接下來在會期中再發生這種狀況會越來越少，因為這個時間是在之前就安排好的，當時會期還沒有完全訂定。 |
| gazette.blocks[248][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，你知道嗎？或者次長要講也可以。現在流行OOC還有OOT，你知道嗎？Out of China、Out of Taiwan，為什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[249][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我沒有聽過這樣的講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[250][0] |
賴委員士葆：你聽我講完，不要急，你還沒有進入狀況，不要隨便答。Tesla、通用他們就告訴供應商，他們要避開中國的供應鏈，要避開臺灣的供應鏈，要避開中國供應鏈是因為美國跟中國在fight，要避開臺灣則是因為臺灣有地緣的風險，所以OOC、OOT不僅僅Tesla、通用，特別現在連半導體也是如此，所以現在郭部長就變成帶頭OOT（Out of Taiwan），特別是Out of the Legislative Yuan！ |
| gazette.blocks[251][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對不起，委員，不是這樣的講法啦，這樣對郭部長也不公平。 |
| gazette.blocks[252][0] |
賴委員士葆：就是這樣子啊，他就不在啊！對不對？所以我要特別提醒院長，對於你的部會首長，不能讓人家吃定你啊，隨便給你唬弄一下，這只有兩個可能，第一個，他不願意來面對立法院，第二個，可能你認為他的應對技巧不好，最好他不要來。對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[253][0] |
卓院長榮泰：都非事實！ |
| gazette.blocks[254][0] |
賴委員士葆：你看像顧立雄國防部長，他的嘴很會說，都不用怕，他來都不用怕，就讓他來，你都不用擔心，但郭部長不是啊，他來是講三句錯四句。 |
| gazette.blocks[254][1] |
來，我們來看台電，它一直要錢，一直虧損，112（去）年到現在我們給它多少錢了？給3,000億欸，給3,000億欸！現在還要追加預算1,000億、還有明年度的增加預算1,000億，總共2,000億，不到兩年的時間要5,000億，要這麼多錢，但一直虧錢！所以我說陳次長就不能來嘛，郭部長這個生意人就知道，這種公司怎麼能生存，負債百分之九十幾！對不對？更可議的是，最近網路上大概是台電發動吧，還是誰發動的，說不給錢就要漲價，恐嚇立法院，我們都還沒有審查…… |
| gazette.blocks[255][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，沒有這樣的講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[256][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們都沒有審查，什麼不給過就恐嚇要漲電價，這個禮拜五要開電價審議委員會，要漲13%…… |
| gazette.blocks[257][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請次長說明一下，沒有這樣的講法。 |
| gazette.blocks[258][0] |
陳次長正祺：報告委員，沒有這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[259][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼會這樣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[260][0] |
陳次長正祺：這個不是事實，這個不是事實。事實上，電價…… |
| gazette.blocks[261][0] |
賴委員士葆：你們要發新聞稿啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[262][0] |
陳次長正祺：電價要由這個月的電價審議會來決定。 |
| gazette.blocks[263][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你們要不要面對這樣子的社會側翼的網攻，你們要發新聞稿表示沒有對立法院做這樣的攻擊，說立法院不給錢我們就要漲價…… |
| gazette.blocks[264][0] |
陳次長正祺：報告委員，台電…… |
| gazette.blocks[265][0] |
賴委員士葆：這什麼跟什麼！這是PUA！ |
| gazette.blocks[266][0] |
陳次長正祺：報告委員，台電下午已經有公開澄清了。 |
| gazette.blocks[267][0] |
賴委員士葆：情緒勒索！PUA！PUA（Pick-up Artist），這個是情緒勒索，很嚴重啊，這假訊息，然後我們就覺得很奇怪啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[268][0] |
陳次長正祺：我們在這邊正式澄清，這個是假訊息，沒有這樣的事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[269][0] |
賴委員士葆：院長，你看喔，核能1.1塊錢，再生能源5塊錢，這是台電自己說的，因為核電不用1塊錢，再生能源的成本多4塊…… |
| gazette.blocks[270][0] |
卓院長榮泰：核廢料的處理成本非常高。 |
| gazette.blocks[271][0] |
賴委員士葆：一直做就一直虧錢！一直做一直虧錢！ |
| gazette.blocks[272][0] |
卓院長榮泰：委員，你是財經專家，你應該算得出來這個成本，你不能只看1.1塊錢，核廢料的處理成本是非常高的。 |
| gazette.blocks[273][0] |
賴委員士葆：你說的那個都是五四三啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[273][1] |
好啦，我的時間快到了，最後一個題目，大法官現在快要變成過街老鼠，人人喊打了，特別是廢死的解釋出來之後。法務部長可以上台，你看大法官喔，最近民調顯示，5成以上對大法官的獨立性沒有信心，法務部鄭部長上來吧。好啦，大法官現在是社會最大的亂源，只要解釋一出，社會必亂，在109年的時候做了790號解釋令，讓大麻現在到處氾濫，大麻是二級毒品，對不對？部長，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[274][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：大麻是二級毒品。 |
| gazette.blocks[275][0] |
賴委員士葆：二級毒品喔，到處氾濫，就因為大法官790號解釋。再過來，國會擴權暫時處分，朝野不合，再過來現在死刑釋憲。部長，你剛剛客氣了啦，我們就講一個，差不多，這37個人通通放了啦，不會死刑啦，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[276][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個要審查，這個現在會由最高檢察署審查137人…… |
| gazette.blocks[277][0] |
賴委員士葆：結果就是這樣啦，這很悲哀！而且現在大法官真的變成過街老鼠，人人喊打。 |
| gazette.blocks[278][0] |
主席：謝謝，時間已到。謝謝賴士葆委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長的備詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[278][1] |
報告院會，現在在議場二樓的是日本關西大學老師帶著學生來中華民國立法院參觀，我們掌聲歡迎。歡迎，歡迎大家，日本來的好朋友，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[278][2] |
報告院會，現在休息10分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢。現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[278][3] |
休息（16時5分） |
| gazette.blocks[278][4] |
繼續開會（16時15分） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
322 |
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院會-11-2-1 |
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韓國瑜 |
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張啓楷 |
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陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
233 |
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2024-09-24 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137501 |
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1137501_00003 |
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1137501_00004 |
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立法院第11屆第2會期第1次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
行政院院長施政報告並備質詢─ 繼續質詢─ |
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1137501_00010 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
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謝謝韓院長、主席以及各位先進我們有請行政院的卓院長再請卓院長備詢賴委員好賴院長你好你今天很紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
41.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
從早上到現在人都沒有你的幕僚告訴你為什麼會花這麼多錢早上一問下午到現在沒有答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
62.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
委員應該沒有看早上我對其他委員的答覆啊我一分鐘讓我答覆可嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
76.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
76.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
結果﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
結果你一個月幾度墊你知道嗎幾度墊你知道嗎你也不知道都這樣為AZ跟現在的某人做功課兩萬度墊一萬九千多兩萬度墊是什麼概念所以我說你知不知道我們現在平均我的懷疑是你聽我講我聽我講好不好我講我再讓你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你知不知道平均普羅大眾老百姓 平均是多少 幾度點我告訴你這個極端值每個月超過一千度的 佔兩趴 兩趴 萬度 兩趴百分之二 我們院長是兩萬度 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
151.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
177.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
一個月兩萬度就是這個最高兩趴的二十倍大家看得到嗎?我們院長到底是在哪裡啊?在分店啊?在雲端啊?我以為你知道那裡面有四棟建築物嗎?怎麼會第二件事情?好像是我一個人用了兩萬度的電一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
181.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這是我們最高2%的20倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
200.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以你認為兩萬度剛剛好是吧不會太多你認為兩萬度不會太多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
227.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我給你個數字啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那裡面有4棟建築物住了非常非常多的人不是我一個人委員不能把狀態停在這種錯誤的資訊不能把狀態停在這種不真實的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
272.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個題目我問過你 我還問過陳建仁在今年3月 我問了陳建仁 我說 誒 院長啊5月1號勞動節不要一國兩制 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
294.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
316.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有些人就可以放假 有些人不放假 多麼的不方便我們要不要一國一制 統統放假 你知道陳建聯怎麼跟我講我最少幫大家都得分了 對不對 看起來今年的五月一號就要放樓 結果沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
319.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
320.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
339.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
340.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
明年你不放啊什麼時候會有共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
373.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
請問你們 你的態度怎麼樣你是不是很害羞很害羞啊你今天比如說你要來上班旁邊你的同仁替你開車的他照理講他要放啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
374.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
400.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他是老公啊 他要放啊對不對 其他公務員不放啊很多市府長 旁邊的 其他開車的都要放啊 為什麼不放請人事長說明一下公務員的放假方式委員報告一下啦 因為在整個假日期 今天是實施辦法 內政部要去考慮這次的美女沒有放假的原因 主要就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
406.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我剛說過已經達到我們放假的上限這是一個再來社會的構思公務員服務法我們放假加上週休二日是115到116天已經回答看一看陳建仁怎麼回答我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
430.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
455.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
樂見其成 非常正面 讓我以為要放了 結果不是啊 我認爲陳院長也一定經過多方的考量跟社會的溝通 所以今年的5月1號我們秉持一樣的溝通繼續進行溝通有沒有機會放我問你有沒有機會問你 有沒有機會 有沒有機會讓我跟院長溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我講太快你又說我獨裁我講太慢你又說我拖拉我到現在為止沒有講過你獨裁的我不知道你這次獨裁要怎麼來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
481.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我不能講太快否則我會獨斷我必須要跟社會溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
502.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
506.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
來 我們來看賴總統說AI就是國力或戰型把台灣造成人工智慧之道沒有人團隊結果呢 亞洲是小龍各位看起來 看一看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
AI的國力第一名新加坡四小龍指揮校南韓15名香港20名臺灣25名亞洲四小龍同位1名介紹總裁的賴總統表達好來來來我還沒起 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
561.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
571.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你知道國科會有發展一個LM叫泰德語言模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
602.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你知道嗎 結果人家loyal qualification result就是律師的資格的檢查看看我的AI的程度怎麼樣我們的準確力怎麼樣結果台灣37.8倒數同位這個主委請吳主委說明主委你貴姓吳主委是是謝謝你看得怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
604.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
607.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第一名這一家這第一家是台灣的公司台灣發電的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
634.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
646.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個代表什麼意思我們整體的國力AI的國力輸給亞洲其他的山小龍第二個我們國科會發展的態度輸給台灣台灣國內的成家 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
655.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
674.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
國外的AI硬體其實都是台灣做的那我們自己的應用我們現在才剛開始要起步要發展所以將來我們會快速的追趕你要不要弄個KPI啊你什麼時候可以超過香港 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
688.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
698.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員我們的硬體製造相當的好但這個軟體的部分我們現在在全力發展我們的軟體所以我說我們要進入一個主權AI的應用時代這個就是主權AI的一個具體表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
704.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
713.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們不如亞洲三小龍我們太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太太 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
731.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
748.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
請備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
758.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
786.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我對楊總裁的學經歷專業雖然我是反對黨我都講他好話他的構想就是人高於老實掉底緊緊扒拼不敢忤逆長官一般是這樣大家覺得是這樣這次很奇怪左院長8月29號說不會有現代力就是聽他講我應該要寬鬆 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
791.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
812.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
賴總統9月1號也說沒有現代力我不管細節啦齁我就要講一個東西你們兩位當然就是希望資金寬鬆然後百業發達然後大家有機會談資金流動多流動性嘛Liquidity大家都知道兩岸總是這個東西齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
815.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
838.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
結果我們總裁碰一個人就說叫核彈級的信用官職這裡面一定有原因了以你這麼溫和的人這麼溝語的人這麼老實的人怎麼會碰一個說我要經說正面打臉左院長跟蔣總統不是跟那個賴總統不是蔣總統我們上台賴總統不是蔣總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
844.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
849.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 你要不要講一下 你看到什麼一定要做這個東西 看到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
852.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
858.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我首先來跟委員報告就是說我們院長還有總統他們一個講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
880.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
880.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
901.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
902.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
賴士葆賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
917.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
919.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你的意思就是說你看到了銀行給房地產的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
944.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
945.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
953.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
956.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
為什麼你要祭出這麼強烈的信用管制你還沒回答問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
982.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
986.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我希望你長話短說是不是你看到了如果沒有出手有可能引起 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1010.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1019.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
蠻圖形的金融網報有沒有可能我想是這樣子啦第一個就是說我們的資源要合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1020.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1023.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以簡單來講就是你一想心一想如果我沒有出手 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1050.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1072.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
臺灣可能不如日本跟美國的次貸風暴不過這個是一個時間的問題啦如果我們現在來出手的時候呢 那麼這個可能就不會發生如果說我們太接近去出手的時候呢 這個泡沫會爆掉所以這個是一個時間的距離的一個問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1076.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1078.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
你聽到說有中型的銀行4、5間 差不多有問題 比較快出手 有這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1100.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1123.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你再說一次你又聽到中型的銀行因為過度的放貸快要出問題了沒有就是說他快要出問題沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有說他要出問題沒有沒有這回事我們只是說如果說大家都是到達這個C0的時候呢那那這樣的話呢會會 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1125.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1126.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
請問大家有沒有到達西林? |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1134.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1148.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
大家有沒有到達西林沒有 都是到26 27因為他到28的時候就已經很高了因為他會 西林是多少 30他到了28啦 28 27 26 25都有啦 只是說有一些家是這樣子啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1158.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1183.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
剛才有民進黨的委員提到的你這裏面會不會有濫殺無辜我想委員這樣的懷疑是合理的但是我也要跟委員藉這個機會來跟委員報告事實上我們持續的在聆聽在聽取各方的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1185.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1204.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我們如果說必要的時候 我想我們對於那些需要協助的那些我們所稱的無辜的 我想我們可能會推出相關的協助措施或是排除條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1206.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1229.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
主要就是改憲期你等於說有一個補救的配套措施要出來對不對那個也不是說補救啦那也可以說啦是那個什麼配套措施好了阿什麼時候可以出來阿我想我們會盡快如果需要的話一個月內可以嗎一個月內可以嗎我不用那麼久我們不用那麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1234.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1254.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我跟委員報告 如果說有一些的人需要來協助的時候我個人都覺得盡快 越快越好這樣能夠協助他們我這樣子是不是可以 你講的我跟你做一個小節一個月一個禮拜以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1255.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1282.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
提出相關的配套特殊需要的情況我們專案處理這樣對嗎你可以接受嗎拜託委員這個讓央行能夠充裕的時間妥善的因應收集各方的反應之後他才能夠做出整套的合理的制度院長這回過了你比較專業這個總裁你剛剛講的話我能不能再做一個小結 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1284.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1304.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
就是楊金榮總裁看到了水位不斷的接近天花板怕引起本土性類似日本美國的時代風暴所以不得不痛下殺手 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1305.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1334.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這個講得太嚴重了太嚴重了沒有這樣這個不是說是馬上就會發生的問題啦我們就說如果說能夠給我們比較長的時間來做一些事的話總裁啊我是替你講話啊因為你這一出手得罪院長啊得罪總統啊來給你重新寬鬆咧不會啦我在上次的院會當中我第一時間我說要感謝中央銀行第一時間提醒行庫跟社會大眾我們是非常肯定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1335.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1353.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
總裁請問請問請問謝謝我請教韓國瑜院長不好意思我很少請教你請問你經濟部的國智慧部長今天不來有沒有跟你請教阿他有什麼偉大的公事沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1360.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1384.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
不是不是講一下我了解一下他是什麼偉大的公司他今天不來跟賴司法委員報告時間暫停郭勤輝部長因公赴日本訪問日本你知道哪裡嗎日本目前沒有我指出他的時間院長你人太好啦你說用愛對他他們吃定你啊他是最本啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1385.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1395.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
對 跟委員報告 部長去熊本 因為熊本的重大的投資這個台積電也沒有去啊 不僅僅這個禮拜他不來喔這個禮拜五他也不來喔 國智會 帶頭藐視國會那個 總院長啊 你前幾天才說喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1406.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1435.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
才說要各部會首長都要來備詢我説除了陪總統接見重要的外賓或者有特別重要的行程那這一件 郭部長在早先就跟我說了這個很重要嗎重要到比來國會備詢重要國會備詢當然重要國會這麼重要的地方我們有次長代理次長出國就好啦次長代理這個也是正常的程序他對一定都不同啊你叫他來都不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1437.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1450.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
請問你是不是管國貿的貿易的對吧是是嘛如果今天問CPTPP 你可以回答問ECPA 你可以回答 國貿會可以回答但是我問你電力的話 阿你馬上就不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1466.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1472.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
對不對 這個東西這個 院長阿要求 不會所長阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1473.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1499.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
不要輕易的假借出國這個容許我也代替郭部長﹑在向委員跟院長致歉確實是非常重要的行程今天也有一位首長也是請假但我們認為說 院會比較重要還是請他留在這裡但是郭部長這個是之前跟日方就安排好的行程早先就跟我講過了我是建議啦 我們都很尊敬都很愛在喊院長以後他們不會送請假 不要隨便准啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1500.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1509.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我當年當召委的時候在法治委員會游錫堃總統和秘書長來跟我請假我就不准阿理由不充分阿他說那個中藥我說來立法院跟中藥也面對人民欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1530.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1531.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
請問院長你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1531.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1536.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
或者處長你要講也可以的 你知道嗎?現在流行一個叫 OOC 還有 OOT 知道嗎?Out of China Out of Taiwan |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1556.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1557.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
美國跟中國在fight |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1583.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1585.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
對不起委員不是這樣的講法這樣對郭部長也不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1612.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1631.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
對 所以我要特別的提醒院長這個對於你的部會首長不能給人家吃定了 隨便給你糊弄一下這個只有兩個可能 第一個 他不願意來面對立法院第二個 可能你認為他的因應的技巧不好 最好他不要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1633.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1636.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
他一直要錢一直虧損到現在我們給他多少錢給3000億 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1662.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1689.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
給3千億然後現在還有一個追加金預算1千億還有明年度的增加預算1千億 2千億不到兩年的時間要5千億要這麼多錢還一定要錢所以我說這個陳社長就不能來嘛 郭部長生意人就傻了這種公司要怎麼做負債百分之九十幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1694.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1697.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個不是事實阿 這個不是事實阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1722.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1747.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
事實上電價要由這個月的這個電價審議會來決定請問你們要不要面對這樣子的一個社會側翼的罔工你們要不要兇搞我們沒有對立法院做這樣子的攻擊我們立法院提前就要我們要漲價這什麼跟什麼這叫PWA情緒勒索PWAPWAPick up |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1754.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1772.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個情緒勒索很嚴重這假訊息弄得然後我們就覺得奇怪我們在這邊政治澄清這個是假訊息沒有這樣的事情你看喔核能1.1塊錢再生能力5塊錢你台電跟你說什麼因為核電不用1塊錢生產成本多4塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1773.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1789.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
合費料的處理成本非常高委員你是財經的專家你應該算得出來這個成本不能只看1.1塊錢合費料的成本的處理是非常高的最後一個題目大法官現在快要變成過街老鼠了忍忍難打特別是會死的機制出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1801.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1825.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那個法務部長可以上來齁你看大法官喔最近的人家的民調百分之五成以上對大法官獨立性沒有信心曾部長上來把法務部的好了大法官現在是社會最大的亂雲他只要解釋一出啊社會必亂在109年的時候790號解釋令 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1828.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1852.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
大麻現在到處氾濫大麻是二毒品對不對 二級毒品部長對嗎 二級毒品喔 到處氾濫 因為大麻跟790號解釋再過來國會擴權 暫時出分 朝野不合再過來現在死刑失陷現在部長啊 你剛剛客氣的啦 我們就講一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1853.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1853.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
賴士葆 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-09-24T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:33:55 - 16:05:10 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次會議（事由：行政院院長施政報告並備質詢） |
| IVOD_ID |
154881 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154881 |
| 日期 |
2024-09-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-1 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第1次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-09-24T15:33:55+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-09-24T16:05:10+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |