| IVOD_ID |
154645 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154645 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-33 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第33次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
33 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第33次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-10T11:32:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-10T11:40:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f8ad1823a13eb723d9a9bb3959728069a07bbd165341284486f3397ef17cf3074c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:32:59 - 11:40:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第33次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍新成立類似美軍國防創新單位（DIU）後，對建軍整備有何革新作法及未來預期成效」，併請數位發展部、國家發展委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家科學及技術委員會列席，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
621 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時33分）主席、各位委員，有請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
顧部長立雄：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好，辛苦了。今天的主題是一個非常重要的主題，這裡面特別提到為了肆應戰場變化以及建立強韌嚇阻戰力，國防部參考美國國防創新單位的作法，在今年2月1號，當時部長還沒有上任，成立「國防創新小組」，負責創新概念評估及引進民間成熟科技，協助提升整體防衛能量。當然我不清楚美國的國防創新單位，國防部應該要去瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我們看你的報告裡面提到國防科技研發體系，它列了3個，分別是民間學術機構、中科院及創新小組，國防創新小組的主要任務有創新概念發展、戰力需求確認、民間技術產能調研、公開徵集與方案評估、導入建案籌獲。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
我們看這個國防部的報告裡面，可能部長還不是那麼清楚，你現在把國防創新小組放在整評司，放在國防部很多司裡面其中一個整評司，部長回去再看一下整評司的處務規程，裡面有寫整評司負責哪些業務，都有寫，成員包括軍職、文職及聘僱人員，區分「創新作戰發展」、「產業調研評估」、「軍民科技應用」三組，執行各項工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][3] |
主要就是這一個這麼重要的、為了肆應戰場變化，建立強韌嚇阻戰力，參考美國國防創新單位，然後成立這個國防創新小組，然後現在是放在整評司。我只是請部長回去評估到底它能不能達成這樣的一個創新，國防創新小組設置在整評司，能不能達成原來的目的，這個請部長回去好好地去評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][4] |
因為我們國家在國防部之下，本來就設了行政法人國家中山科學研究院就設在那裡啊！提升國防科技能力，建立自主國防工業，拓展國防及軍民通用技術，設了國科院。國科院它的業務範圍很廣，國科院的董事長就是國防部長，還包含了經濟部次長、國科會副主委為當然董事，所以，它這個是一個非常完備的，一個這麼重要的國防創新小組在一個整評司，就我這個30年的老公務員，部長也學法的，當然我比你差很多，這樣的一個……我是懷疑啦！我是懷疑它能夠達成當初這麼重大的一個任務，所以這個部分就請部長回去再跟相關的包括國家中山科學研究院一起去討論，包括其他的部會、國科會一起去討論，應該怎麼樣去推動，好不好？部長瞭解我的意思嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
顧部長立雄：是，瞭解，我想…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我的意思在整評司是很難發揮啦！部長你回去看一下整評司的這些軍職人員或是聘僱人員，到底他們的專業如何，你回去看一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
顧部長立雄：我只是跟委員報告一點，委員看的是一個階層的問題，我看的是一個任務導向的問題，不管它設置在哪裡，如果它的任務能夠直接受我的督管，然後完成它相關的任務，這是我比較看重的，不管它設在什麼樣的一個階層…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也許你是對的，也許國防部是對的，我沒有做定論，我只是讓你回去評估，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
顧部長立雄：好，瞭解，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我沒有去評論，讓你去評估。部長上任之後，我第一次跟你質詢的時候，也再次的……我過去質詢過前任部長，也質詢過行政院院長，精良的軍備要有專精的國軍，這是我一直強調的。要有精良的軍備，更要有專精的國軍，但是我們一直缺少、缺乏，你看志願役不適服，2年逾7,000人離營。我們看志願役實領的薪資，二等兵3萬6，一等兵3萬8，上等兵3萬9，跟我們勞工的平均薪資四萬六千多差很多，但如果從士官跟軍官去做比較，一樣！所以這個部分，我們的人力真的是一直，因為主席站起來了，部長，我還是再次的請你回去再好好地評估。我們的軍人有時候習慣了，反正就是人事行政總處或行政院核定，很多東西都是要爭取的啦，以前跟現在又不一樣了，所以這個部分請部長也回去評估啦，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
顧部長立雄：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
44 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-33 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-07-10 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1137301_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第33次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「國軍新成立類似美軍國防創新單位（DIU）後，對建軍整備有何革
新作法及未來預期成效」，併請數位發展部、國家發展委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、國家科學
及技術委員會列席，並備質詢 |
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主席 各位委員 有請部長請部長是 政委部長好 辛苦了今天的主題是一個非常重要的一個主題 |
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27.269 |
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37.337 |
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這裡面特別提到為了因應為了適應戰場變化以及建立強韌嚇阻戰力國防部參考美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
38.732 |
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64.586 |
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的國防創新單位的作法在今年2月1號當時部長還沒有上任成立國防創新小組負責創新概念評估及引進民間成熟科技協助提升整體防衛能量當然我不清楚美國的國防創新單位當然國防部應該要去了解 |
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67.403 |
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84.017 |
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那我們看這個你的報告裡面國防科技研發體系把它列了三個民間學術機構中科研創新小組這樣的一個 |
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85.68 |
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114.114 |
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然後國防創新小組說主要任務有創新概念發展戰略需求確認民間技術產能調研公開徵集與方案評估導入建設稠厚我們看這個國防部的報告裡面你現在把這個創新國防創新小組放在可能部長還不是那麼清楚 |
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115.379 |
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119.013 |
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放在這個整平思：國防部的 |
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120.606 |
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149.293 |
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很多師裡面的其中一個整評師部長回去再看一下整評師的出入規程裡面有寫整評師負責哪些業務都有寫然後成員包括軍職、文職、聘僱人員然後七分創新作戰發展創產業、條研、評估、軍林科技運用三組執行各項工作 |
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151.175 |
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178.855 |
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最主要就是說這一個這麼重要的這麼重要的為了適應戰場變化建立強韌嚇阻戰力參考美國的這個國防創新單位然後成立這個國防創新小組然後現在是放在整平室這個我是只是請部長回去評估啦 |
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180.348 |
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205.301 |
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請部長回去評估到底他能不能達成這樣的一個創新國防創新小組設置在整平斯能不能達成原來的目的這個請部長回去好好的去評估因為我們國家本來就有國防部 |
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207.17 |
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231.963 |
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本來就設了行政法人國家中商科學研究院就設在那裏提升國防科技能力建立自主國防工業拓展國防及軍用通用技術設了這個國科院國科院他的業務範圍很廣然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.374 |
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260.477 |
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國科院的董事長就是國防部長然後還包含了這個經濟部的次長國科會的副主委當然的董事所以他這個是一個非常完備的然後一個這麼重要的國防創新小組然後再一個整平師就我這個30年的老公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.216 |
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283.274 |
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然後也寫法的跟部長當然我比你差很多啦這樣的一個我是懷疑啦我是懷疑他能夠達成當初這麼重大的一個任務所以這個部分就請部長回去再跟相關的包括國科院 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
285.676 |
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310.536 |
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國家中商科學研究院一起去討論包括其他的部會、國科會一起去討論能不能應該怎麼樣去推動好不好部長有瞭解我的意思嗎是瞭解我的意思說在整平思是很難發揮啦部長你回去看一下整平思的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
317.25 |
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這些君子人員或是聘僱人員到底他們的專業如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
318.342 |
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341.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我只是跟委員報告一點就是說委員看的是一個階層的問題我看的是一個任務導向的問題那不管他設置在哪裡那如果他的這個任務能夠直接受我直接的督管然後完成他相關的任務這是我比較看重的不管他設在什麼樣的一個階層 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
343.172 |
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370.2 |
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也許你是對的,也許國防部是對的,我沒有做定論,我只是讓你回去評估啦,好不好?是,好,了解,好,謝謝。我沒有去評論,我讓你去評估。好,這個上次,這個部長上任之後,我第一次跟你質詢的時候,就再次的跟我過去質詢過前任的部長,也質詢過這個行政院院長,軍,精良的軍備, |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.843 |
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400.096 |
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要有專精的國軍這是我一直強調要有精良的軍備更要有專精的國軍但是我們一直缺少、缺法你看這個志願役不是在去年服兩年然後7000人離營像這個我們看這個志願役的實領的薪資二等兵三萬六、一等兵三萬八、上等兵三萬九 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.363 |
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429.282 |
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跟我們的勞工的平均薪資4萬6千多差很多但我如果我們從上士官跟軍官去做比較一樣一樣所以這個部分我們的這個能力真的是一直所以我因為主席站起來了這個部長我還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
431.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
431.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝鄭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
462.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
464.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢 |