| IVOD_ID |
154622 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154622 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-23-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-10T10:31:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-10T10:43:11+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1b498260953197f80999ca0650ae5e997345d751ed3a12a690a5faf2fa6890fce588b5cd50b116635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林俊憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:52 - 10:43:11 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部部長李孟諺就「TPASS通勤月票辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
298 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
林委員俊憲：（10時32分）謝謝主席，本席邀請交通部李孟諺部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請李部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
李部長孟諺：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
林委員俊憲：我今天還是要再跟你討論一些臺南的事情，幫我們臺南鄉親爭取一些來自中央的幫助。現在我們在推TPASS，有一個系統就是南高屏，部長，你也長期在臺南服務過，你知道臺南的地形是南北狹長，搭高鐵如果從臺南站上車，要坐19分鐘才會到嘉義，等於用兩百多公里的時速要跑20分鐘才能離開臺南，南北很狹長，因此，北臺南就是我們說的溪北地區，尤其是大新營地區，它的生活圈其實根本都不是跟高雄在一起，所以你那個TPASS以南高屏範圍，根本一半的臺南人不會使用。所以臺南市政府現在要結合嘉義縣市要來推一個嘉嘉南生活圈通勤需求，尤其現在溪北地區也逐步的要開發，台積電也要去嘉義投資，所以現在嘉嘉南的TPASS，臺南市政府希望交通部能夠給予幫助，幫助什麼呢？就是它需要一些通勤人數的統計，這樣它才可以計算出跟嘉義合作以後TPASS的價格。那為什麼需要推一個嘉嘉南系統呢？就是要讓我們溪北地方尤其是大新營地區的民眾來使用。若以嘉義民雄到南科的生活圈為例，一天來回火車票要160塊錢，如果上班20天啦，一個月通勤火車票就要3,200塊錢，如果推TPASS，可以大幅減輕民眾的負擔。但是現在嘉嘉南的TPASS還沒有把臺鐵納入，希望未來要把臺鐵納進來。現在因為臺南、嘉義是不同系統的平台，局長知道，嘉義一個系統，臺南一個系統，臺南現在用的是南高屏系統，所以如果北臺南要跟嘉義合作的話，第一、需要技術串接及運具系統程式修改經費，還有票務系統的串連，這現在都已經有提案了，要請中央幫忙，部長，對這部分你有什麼看法？是不是能請你協助？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
李部長孟諺：跟委員報告，目前臺南有299和399的自己的方案，嘉義有399的方案，我們現在跟臺南及嘉義在協助，就是怎麼樣這兩個縣市可以整合變成一個嘉嘉南的方案，把臺鐵也納進來，目前正在研議，我們也會在行政上和補助上，比如試行系統的建置上給予最大的協助。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，其中有一些經費更需要交通部補助，例如電子票證製作，民眾搭乘各類公共運輸，如果買月票也有優待票，跟正常票價之間的差額，這個部分交通部也可以納為補助項目，還有票證系統的建置、程式開發和修改，這個請…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
李部長孟諺：尤其臺南溪北，他如果搭高鐵都要到朴子。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
林委員俊憲：都要去朴子，所以你…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李部長孟諺：另外有一些人是在嘉中唸書，所以相關的通勤確實是有必要。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
林委員俊憲：部長很瞭解臺南，其實溪北地方、大新營地區，它跟嘉義根本就是一個生活圈，所以臺南其實分成兩個生活圈，一個是跟高雄比較接近，另外一個部分，北臺南你要另外考量，謝謝部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
李部長孟諺：尤其臺南古早時代是諸羅縣，跟嘉義是同一個縣。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
林委員俊憲：所以跟部長談臺南市政很輕鬆，你也很清楚。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][1] |
另外，我這裡有一個建議，部長知道去（2023）年全國交通事故的死傷總人數有多少人嗎？有54萬2,000人；其中騎機車的，包含重型機車的死傷人數是42萬1,000人，。也就是全國一年的車禍死傷人數，騎機車的將近占78%，所以其實在臺灣騎機車非常危險，而且占肇事死傷人數的78%。那我們要如何降低死傷人數，就應該從降低機車的車禍事故發生來多方面著手。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][2] |
而交通事故都發生在哪裡？有很多地方沒有大眾運輸工具，6都加總起來，因為人口稠密，所以6都加總起來又占了機車所有肇事事件的七成。因為人多，很多地方基本上使用的交通工具還是機車，他們的機車數目，我看幾乎都是一個人一台，差不多兩千多萬台。臺南雖然是6都裡面人口最少，但比較起來臺南的大眾運輸還是相對落後。所以臺南人口雖然是6都最少，但相較於其他直轄市，臺南的機車肇事件數是全國第四。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][3] |
那要怎麼做才能降低機車肇事率？統計很久，交通部也有發現，而交通部現在在推動，就是機車駕訓班。大部分人去考機車駕照都是自己學自己騎，實際上很少人會去機車駕訓班，那交通部為什麼要來推這個，其實這是有研究數據的。如果有去機車駕訓班訓練完成考到機車駕照，後來發生車禍的比例大幅減少，有受訓的比沒受訓的在違規方面少了快六成。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
李部長孟諺：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
林委員俊憲：他可能就比較懂交通規則，我在猜啦！違規的。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李部長孟諺：對，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
林委員俊憲：如果有受過駕訓班訓練的，比沒有受過駕訓班訓練的肇事、發生車禍少了36%。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
李部長孟諺：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
林委員俊憲：民眾於考照1年後及考照3年後，其平均違規率或肇事率都明顯下降。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][1] |
現在交通部在推駕訓班，我覺得效果很差，推行到現在還是只有12.6%的民眾考照是經過機車駕訓班，全國平均可以使用的名額都用不完。交通部有補助地方政府，考交通駕照要去駕訓班，政府幫你出錢，一個好像是出1,300元，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
李部長孟諺：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
林委員俊憲：但每個縣市財源不一樣，臺北市就很有錢，幾乎是剩下的臺北市政府全部買單；臺南市政府大概比較不行，民眾一般還要再負擔差不多將近一千多塊，將近2,000塊。但是這個名額為什麼都用不完？全國用88%其實都集中在比較進步的臺北、雙北，臺南的使用名額只有57%，不到六成，很多地方你看平均都只有百分之十幾，使用名額的比例非常非常低。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][1] |
有幾個原因，第一個，駕訓班設置的點還很少。駕訓班跟一般考汽車不一樣，機車駕訓班有時候小小一個空地就可以，其實應該要落實到行政區、落實到社區。過去交通部拿臺南第一個試辦，就是機車駕訓班讓它到地方，比較有社區性，不過我希望，交通部既然要推機車駕訓班，那你應該要讓民眾第一個是有便利性，如果他去機車駕訓班還要跑很遠，基本上普及率就拉不起來。像臺南的機車駕訓班，臺南只有永康、仁德和歸仁有，臺南就只有這幾個點，就5個點，而且行政區只在永康，仁德，歸仁。臺灣有很多縣市都是在5家以下，其中有6個縣市是全縣只有1家，所以便利性一定很不足。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][2] |
此外，去駕訓班的應該讓他可以原地考照，現在有24間是沒辦法原地考照，那誰要去那邊練習？基本上我們現在讓民眾便利就是，如果他在這個場地練習，這個地方既然是機車駕訓班的場地，就應該允許他可以原地考照才對，現在有好幾十間都沒辦法提供這些服務。簡單一句話，你要推這個政策就要讓它推成功，你推到現在，誘因還有普及率都那麼低，現在考機車駕照的了還是只有12.6%有經過駕訓班。那你明明知道到機車駕訓班上過課的，1年、3年的統計，其肇事及違規風險都大幅降低，既然政策要推就要好好地推動，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
李部長孟諺：跟委員報告，現在這些很多是新設的，設1年之後經過審核就可以原地考照，所以目前還在推…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
林委員俊憲：點數還是太少。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
在場人員：是，還會再加。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
李部長孟諺：對，所以大概1年內應該就會陸續增加。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
林委員俊憲：好，我們希望通部，如果你要推動，希望能夠全力協助地方政府來推動。好，謝謝。謝謝主席。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
主席：林俊憲委員發言完畢。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][1] |
現在請陳素月委員。陳素月委員委員發言完畢之後，休息10分鐘。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
142 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-23-19 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
99 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-07-10 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1137301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1137301_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請交通部部長李孟諺就「TPASS 通勤月票辦理情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢 |
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先做一下宣告林俊憲委員發言完畢之後在陳書業委員發言完畢之後我們休息10分鐘謝謝主席本席邀請我們交通部李孟諺李孟諺理部長請理部長那也再一次跟廖憲強委員抱歉年紀大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.835 |
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來 部長 是 委員好我今天還是要再跟你討論一些台南的事情幫我們台南鄉親爭取一些來自中央的幫助現在我們在推這個TPASS有一個系統就是藍高頻 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.905 |
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62.623 |
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部長你在台南也長期服務過你知道台南的地形是南北很狹長你如果高鐵從台南站上車你要坐19分鐘才會到嘉義等於說你用200多公里你要跑20分鐘才能離開台南所以他南北是很狹長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.403 |
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89.864 |
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因此北台南,就是我們說的KB,西北地區,尤其是大新寧地區他的生活圈其實根本都不是跟高雄在一起所以你那個TPASS你用南高屏根本一半的台南人不會使用所以台南市政府現在要結合嘉義縣市要來推一個加加南的生活圈通勤需求尤其現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
92.059 |
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95.98 |
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臺南市政府希望我們交通部能夠予以幫助。幫助什麼呢?他需要一些數字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
110.649 |
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134.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
什麼數字?就是通勤人數的統計這樣他才可以計算出跟嘉義合作以後的TPASS的價格那為什麼需要推一個嘉嘉欄呢?就讓我們企業的地方尤其是大型地區的民眾來使用你如果以民用到藍科啦比如說以生活圈加以民用到藍科做一個例子你如果一天的來回的費用要多少?要一百六十塊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.271 |
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136.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
林俊憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
152.562 |
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166.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
加加南的TPASS沒有納入台鐵所以我希望未來要把台鐵給納進來要把台鐵納進TPASS的系統裡面那現在因為台南嘉義是不同系統平台啦這個局長知道齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
167.868 |
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183.302 |
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現在自己一個系統,台南一個系統,因為台南現在贏的是藍高屏系統,所以你如果北台南要跟嘉義合作的話,第一個它這個技術的串接,還有運具系統的程式修改經費,還有票務系統的串聯, |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
184.443 |
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189.068 |
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目前臺南有一個299跟399自己的方案那嘉義有一個399的方案那我們現在有跟臺南跟嘉義在協助就是說怎麼樣這兩個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
206.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
其實有一些經費更需要交通部的補助例如電子票證的製作 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
225.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
244.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
民眾搭乘各類的公共運輸如果你買月票有優待票那跟正常票價之間的差額這個不僅是可以納為補助項目還有票證系統的建置還有程式開發跟修改如果要搭高鐵都要到富子 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
244.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
246.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
北台南國際時代是珠羅關跟嘉義是同一個縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
274.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
289.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
跟部長談談是很輕鬆很清楚另外部長我這裡有個建議你知道去年我們2023年全國交通事故的死傷總人數有多少人有54萬2千人那其中騎機車的包含重型機車死傷人數是42萬1千 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
300.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
317.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
也就是說全國一年的車禍死傷人數騎機車的佔了百分之將近78所以其實在台灣騎機車是非常危險而且是佔肇事的死傷人數70倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
321.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
343.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們要如何減、降低死傷人數呢?就是應該從降低機車的車禍事故發生來多方面的著手啦那交通的事故都發生在哪裡?其實齁因為我們有很多地方是沒有大眾運輸工具啦那六都加總起來啦因為人口稠密啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
344.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
368.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以六都加總起來又佔了我們機車所有造勢事件的七成因為人多嘛那其實很多地方基本上使用的交通工具還是機車啦他們機車的數目我看有幾乎都是一個人一台啦一千多萬台啦兩千萬台啦那台南雖然是六都裡面人口最少 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
369.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是因為台南的交通大眾運輸幾乎就比較起來啊 台南大眾運輸還是相對的落後所以台南人口雖然六都最少但是啊相較於其他直轄市呢 台南的機車造勢的建樹是全國第四那要怎麼走開人家幹的這個機車的造勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
396.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
408.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以你如果統計研究也是交通部有發現那交通部現在在推動就是機車駕訓班我們大部分的人去考機車駕照都是自己學自己騎實際上很少人會去機車駕訓班那交通部為什麼你要來推這個其實這是有研究數據的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你如果有去機車駕訓班,訓練後,考到機車的價值,你後來發生車禍的比例大幅減少,有受訓的比沒受訓的在違規方面少了快六成,他可能就比較懂交通規則啦,我在猜啦,違規啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
442.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
462.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
如果有受過駕訓班的比沒有受過駕訓班的肇事、化妝、車禍少了36%民眾在考照一年後還有考照三年後也平均違規率或肇事率都明顯的下降所以現在交通部在推這個駕訓班我認為好過很壞推行到現在還是只有12.6%的民眾他考照是經過機車駕訓班 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
472.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
全國平均可使用的名額都用不完,因為我們交通部部長有地方政府,你如果要靠交通架腳,要去架分班,政府幫你倒出錢,一個人好像出一千三百塊吧,是不是這樣?但每個縣市財源不一樣,臺北市就很有錢,臺北市幾乎剩下的,臺北市政府全部買單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
496.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
519.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
臺南市政府大概比較不行啦民眾一般大概要再負擔差不多將近一千多塊啦將近兩千塊啦但是這個名額為什麼用不完你全國用百分之八十八齁其實都集中在比較進步的臺北、雙北加拿大臺南的使用名額只有百分之五十七啦不到六成很多地方齁你看平均都只有十幾趴啦全國 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
523.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個使用這個名額的比例啊非常非常低啊有幾個原因啊第一個你駕訓班齁設置的點數還很少啦其實駕訓班跟一般考汽車不一樣啊機車駕訓班有時候少少一個空地就可以啦那其實應該要落實到行政區落實到社區去啦過去齁交通部拿台南做第一個示範齁交通部讓台南示範那個就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
553.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
機車駕訓班讓他到地方來到比較有社區性不過我希望交通部部長你既然要推這種機車駕訓班那你應該要讓民眾有一個第一個方便性就是你希望他你如果他要去機車駕訓班然後還要跑很遠他基本上你這個普舉率就拉不起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那像臺南的機車駕訓班齁,那個部長,我們臺南只有英空臨地到整條路啦臺南就只有這幾個點啦,只有五個點啦而且行政區只在永康、仁德、奎仁那臺灣有很多縣市啦,就是在五家以下其中有六個縣市齁,全縣啦,全縣市只有一家啦所以這個便利性啦,一定很不足啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
610.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
638.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
還有你去駕訓班應該讓他可以原地考照我們現在有24間醫學部幫我原地考照的那誰要去那邊練習基本上我們現在讓民眾便利就是說他在這個場地如果來練習你應該讓這個地方如果既然是機車駕訓班的場地就應該允許他可以原地考照這樣才對你現在有20間都沒辦法提供這樣好不好簡單一句話你要推這個政策我就要讓他推成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
639.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你推到現在那個誘因還有普及率都那麼低啦現在考機車駕照了還是只有12.6%有經過駕訓班那你明明知道機車駕訓班上過課的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
654.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
679.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
一年三年的統計他的肇事還有違規風險都大幅降低那麼就既然政策要推就要好好的推動好不好跟委員報告就是現在這些很多是新設的那設一年之後就可以經過審核就可以原地考照所以目前還在推動所以大概一年內應該就會陸續增加好我們希望交通部如果你要推動希望能夠全力來協助地方政府來推動 |