| IVOD_ID |
154544 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154544 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-05T16:05:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-05T16:36:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4edc3fae9cb29e97aac97912bf81a188412a25d0aa7d1a49908f554dcbfda07e2b2717c1df6d4f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:05:36 - 16:36:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第21次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。
二、7月5日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
三、7月9日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
409 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
吳委員秉叡：（16時5分）主席，麻煩請卓院長跟交通部李部長。 |
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主席：卓院長、交通部李部長請備詢。 |
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卓院長榮泰：吳委員、張委員好。 |
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吳委員秉叡：你好。 |
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李部長孟諺：委員好。 |
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吳委員秉叡：不知道你知不知道中央有給經費做大漢溪左側堤外道路的打通？原則上大概是這個月的十幾號、快要20號的時候會辦啟用典禮，院長有收到邀請嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：抱歉，我還沒有看到確實的日期。 |
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吳委員秉叡：李部長應該很清楚，因為你對新北市的事情很瞭解。這個堤外便道就是一段接一段，現在是從新莊鐵路橋到樹林山佳之間的這一段，幾乎全部都是中央的經費，那是委託新北市政府做一些工程。7月18號，現在我看到的資料是早上9點半要做啟用典禮，它沒有邀請院長，還不是沒有邀請院長而已，也沒有邀請小弟在下我。這樣子的狀況，這只是一個個案，像這個禮拜，新北市環狀捷運線幸福站旁邊的幸福停車場，經費由中央大量補助，用前瞻基礎建設的預算，是本席很努力爭取的新莊3個停車場之一，啟用典禮一樣沒有邀請立法委員，就是市政府自己辦了就算了，然後好像都無視人一樣，跟我們都沒有關係一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][1] |
我是在想，這樣子的狀況一直發生在我們的身上，我們很努力地在為地方爭取地方該有的這些建設跟該有的這些設施，結果只要經費給市政府，然後它完工之後，我相信它沒有通知本席，應該也沒有通知交通部吧！還是交通部有收到這個啟用典禮的邀請嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
李部長孟諺：目前我這邊沒有收到。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
吳委員秉叡：已經辦完了啊！ |
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李部長孟諺：對，沒有收到。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
吳委員秉叡：那個停車場的啟用典禮已經辦完了，沒有收到邀請。所以很多我們中央的預算，補助地方是應該，給地方錢，讓地方可以好好地建設，當然是福國利民，對新莊有很大的幫助。問題是，沒有人會講說這是中央盡了多少的努力、中央的民意代表盡了多少的努力，全部都被一刀切，因為你的工程委託它辦之後，它自己完工之後，全部都是它自己的宣傳，全部都它的功勞，跟我們都沒有關係一樣，這樣的狀況一再地發生啦！我舉的這幾個例子只是聽得到的。所以我是在想，這中間是出了什麼問題，交通部給錢之後就算了嗎？中央給錢之後就算了嗎？沒有跟它講要啟用的時候，或是假設要辦一個動工典禮，做這些典禮儀式的時候都不用通知、都不用邀請的？還是你們這一方面都沒有在列管、都沒有在要求？就是錢給地方，它高興什麼時候辦就什麼時候辦，完工的時候也不用通知我們，辦得怎麼樣我們也都不知道，如果是這樣的話，部長覺得你可以接受嗎？ |
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李部長孟諺：我想這個是應該基於互相尊重，地方應該也要通知我們，要告訴我們相關重要的啟用或者動工…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
吳委員秉叡：對，如果是大筆的錢，動輒幾十億的經費，中央補助了，你好歹要啟用的時候也通知一聲，中央如果跟你表達說：對不起，我那天有重要的公務，所以我沒辦法去，我派一個代表去，那OK啊，問題是它都不告訴你欸！像我剛剛講的這個東西，已經都辦完了，你也都不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
李部長孟諺：然後協助爭取經費的委員也應該要受邀。 |
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吳委員秉叡：它有邀請新北市議員去啦，但新北市議員回來跟我說，會中全部都是講是新北市政府做的，它也不去講說中央補助了多少錢、中央的民意代表爭取了多少錢，然後把所有的功勞全部都歸給地方，還歸給地方特定的議員，我覺得…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，行政院很感謝委員對地方各種建設的爭取，我想以後不管是交通部還是各個部會，我們把錢補助給地方之後，地方到底有沒有把事情做好，我們在過程跟結果都要再進一步地去瞭解，同時在它已經落成之後，也一定要跟過去關心的委員們做一個報告，一起來驗收或者一起來參與這整個過程的結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
吳委員秉叡：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
張委員宏陸：院長跟部長，其實中央補助的部分，像我們現在也有很多人行道的改善工程，也都是中央補助的，其實地方拿到錢之後，它擅自變更原來的設計…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這不可以。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
張委員宏陸：我們中央也管不到、管不著欸！我之前質詢也有提到，這種問題中央應該要有一個管控的機制，不然你錢給它，它擅自又變更設計，到時候好的都是它，結果被罵的時候說是中央的錢、是中央的，我覺得我們當了很多冤大頭，我覺得這種事情應該要像院長講的，要有一個管控的機制。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好的，我們來改進。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
張委員宏陸：不然我會覺得行政院在全臺灣人行道的安全、什麼的，跟交通都有關的，如果我們都沒有去做一個管控的話，好處不會留到行政院，我們要的也不是好處，但是它的變更設計跟原來的設計不同，這中間就是會有問題，而且為什麼要變更設計？它變更設計，補助單位竟然都沒有置喙的餘地，我覺得這個法令我們可能要修改一下、要去瞭解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，這樣不行。我們現在對於路口的改善，到年底有一個相當明確的計畫，請交通部、內政部，還有交通部的公路總局，一定要落實，針對剛剛委員所說的這樣的情況，我們來改進這個事實。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
吳委員秉叡：院長，我就是要跟你講，這個問題不是只有在交通方面，其實在社會福利方面也是。TPASS在北臺灣，從桃園一直到基隆1,200塊，只要那幾項的公共運輸都吃到飽，對不對？ |
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卓院長榮泰：是。 |
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吳委員秉叡：以前太多使用者不知道這筆錢是中央補助的，因為他都以為這是地方政府的政策，我舉這樣的例子是要跟你說，我們很認真在做，這是對的，但是有時候「稻仔尾」被割走了，你也好歹反映一下，因為這會影響到最後它會怎麼宣傳，選舉的時候會講說我們的民意代表都沒有在做事，它最後的結論就是這樣啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
李部長孟諺：跟委員報告，現在TPASS的卡，我們都有要求上面要印製這個是行政院的。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
吳委員秉叡：是，我知道，那是因為這件事情有被反映了，之後才開始這樣做。在這之前還有一些，譬如我們發那個6,000塊，直接就說是行政院入帳，讓你的帳戶上面看得到。是誰做的，我們很清楚啦，但我們清楚，民眾不一定清楚。像我舉的這個例子，新莊現在除了西盛9里之外，所有中央民意代表的區域立委就是我，中央補助的費用我不敢說完全都是我爭取的，但大部分是我爭取的啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是的。 |
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吳委員秉叡：但是它從來就不講，最後選舉的時候就用黨派的意見告訴你說，新莊的立委都沒有在做事，這個對我們是非常的不公道，同樣地，它可以這樣講，言下之意是你中央政府也都沒有在做事，補助的錢變成白送給它了，我覺得這是要不得的，我們實事求是，本來中華民國是一個團隊，大家一起做事，誰做的就說誰做的，誰出多少就誰出多少，誰努力了什麼就努力了什麼，這樣子才有公道啦！ |
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卓院長榮泰：是，中央地方一體，但權責還是要分明…… |
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吳委員秉叡：但是我今天還是要講…… |
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卓院長榮泰：希望過去委員爭取的辛苦，我們在事情完成的時候，要讓大家一起來審視這個結果的發生。 |
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吳委員秉叡：所以我的意思是說如果你有大量款項補助的時候，要求這些單位要追蹤啦！而不是它拿去了、完成了，然後就跟我們沒有關係了，不可以這個樣子。 |
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卓院長榮泰：是的。 |
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吳委員秉叡：像我剛剛講的那個堤外便道的連接，全部的費用99%以上都是中央出的，結果它7月18號早上9點半要辦啟用典禮，你沒有接到通知啊！我也沒有接到邀請啦！地方上的人講說：「你看，市政府又來幫我們做了一個這麼偉大的建設。」這個建設當初蘇貞昌院長有行文給新北市政府，新北市政府說交通上不是最優先，它不出錢，所以最後百分之百變成我們是中央政府出錢耶！結果中央政府全部出錢之後，現在啟用典禮它來辦，新北市政府來辦，院也沒有邀請、中央民意代表也沒有邀請，這個完全是……在我看來這百分之百是「斬稻仔尾」的行為嘛！我們這麼努力爭取了，多少年前就開始在講，然後行政院蘇貞昌院長在最後的時候問它說，新北市政府願不願意做這條路，要不要大家來協調怎麼支出經費的時候，它說不是優先的交通建設項目，一毛錢都不出耶！這個張宏陸委員也可以作證，事實上就是這樣啊！結果它7月16號辦啟用典禮了，完全不通知我們，我現在回到…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][1] |
因為我是地方選出的民意代表，我們仍然還是要講地方，有幾個事情做得不錯，希望繼續能加強的，第一個就是五股交流道的改善，它現在的工程有超出進度，進度是二十六點多，但它現在已經進行到三十點多了，希望交通部能夠繼續加油，這個要到116年4月完工，可是如果能夠提早完工對地方是莫大的功德，這件事情做得很好。但是塭仔圳重劃區土地再過兩年馬上就會分發下來，就開始建設，人口又會增加非常的多，所以五股交流道改善了一部分，但是問題絕對會繼續不斷，我們應該要想辦法來思考這個全臺灣交通最擁擠的交流道，泰山那一方面可不可以另外再弄一個引道？之前一直有這樣的提案跟提議，但是好幾個方案都一直被認為不可行，就是說它不符合道路跟交流道的設計，部長可不可以再想想辦法，再想看看？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
李部長孟諺：是，謝謝委員的鼓勵，我想五股交流道確實是一個很艱鉅的工程，因為這麼大的交通量，又要一邊通車、一邊行車、一邊施工，非常的不容易，因為有很多的改道等等的交通維持，這個部分我們也會再請高公局設法看怎麼樣讓這個工進能夠更順利。同時因為五股交流道在施工，林口交流道也在增加匝道，這兩個可以說是全國排名前兩名、前三名交通量的交流道，怎麼樣讓這個部分的改善能夠更加及早來服務民眾。剛剛提的這個建議，有沒有分散交流道車流的方案，我們請高公局再來想辦法。 |
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吳委員秉叡：好，第二個是…… |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
李部長孟諺：因為塭仔圳重劃通了以後，我想五股的臺65，就是這個快速道路也會增加很多的量，那個部分的匝道也希望趕快來進行。 |
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吳委員秉叡：這就是我要問的第二個問題，臺65南向，我一直主張在新莊要增加第二個出口，事實上這個也都研究納入、預計即將要發包了，希望能夠順利做，但是你也是一樣錢給它，但它怎麼做，我是說要盯緊，好不好？協調上要盯緊…… |
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李部長孟諺：這個匝道因為要環差，所以需要一些環境差異評估的時間。 |
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吳委員秉叡：但是我希望能夠儘量幫我們看緊那個時程，因為時間對我們來講就是非常大的壓力。再來，我今天為什麼跟張宏陸委員聯合質詢，問題就是我們有一個泰山到板橋的捷運，現在叫做泰板輕軌。可是我是要跟你說，在一個大都市裡面，經過人口這麼稠密的地方，板橋、新莊跟泰山人口加起來一百多萬耶！結果它是要用輕軌的方式，這也引起地方上……如果以長遠時間來看，不應該用這麼小的運量，這是第一個問題。第二個問題，新莊後港跟西盛地區，就是南新莊後港跟西盛有十幾萬人口，卻沒有一條軌道運送，也沒有捷運。我的主張是在塔寮坑溪交接的地方，就是泰板捷運走塔寮坑溪的路廊到潭底溝，最後走西盛跟後港的中間，到樹林監理站接萬大樹林線，這樣路軌可以連接起來，而且可以服務西盛跟後港、新莊地區這十幾萬的人口。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][1] |
對這個案子，目前新北市政府只說是後續計畫，交通部能不能考量我們地方十幾萬人口的需要？那剛好在我跟蘇巧慧委員的選區中間。這地方十幾萬人沒有任何的軌道運輸，也沒有捷運的服務，希望是不是在這方面可以幫考量、加強？如果市政府動作不夠快的話，就看交通部如何指導、如何協助，讓它瞭解我們地方的需要。其實這樣做有一個很大的好處，如果基礎建在河流上，能夠跟河流共構的話，基本上不用拆遷多少戶，就可以把這條路做起來。以上是我的主張跟建議，希望院長跟部長能夠支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
卓院長榮泰：這還要新北市政府做很多規劃，包括系統的形式，新北市還在做規劃。而且對於路廊條件，新北市好像還沒有做最後決定，也就是西盛到板橋社後這段，因為當中…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
吳委員秉叡：我這段是後港西盛支線，張宏陸那段是社後支線，為什麼會聯合質詢？就是為了這個！至少新莊這部分拜託院長跟部長給我們支持，如果新北市政府的動作比較慢的話，應該要給它鼓勵。在大臺北地區竟然有十幾萬人口沒有任何捷運可以用？不可思議啊！在現在的社會裡，我覺得不可思議！ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我請交通部未來跟新北市協商的時候，會把兩位委員的意見放進來。也就是現在的人口量跟未來的發展趨勢，以及整個地方的需要。還有，新北市沒有把路廊的路段地點定出來，也趕快請新北市加速工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
張委員宏陸：部長、院長，其實社后支線跟西盛支線是可以串聯在一起的，中間都不用轉車，就可以一直從我們板橋到新莊監理所。那時候交通部的評估是可行的，新北市政府之前還跟交通部拿了多少規劃設計經費補助？這也是我協助爭取的，它錢都拿了，為什麼遲遲不核定？因為去年在選舉，它不想讓立法委員去幫忙爭取，就是這麼簡單，所以它遲遲在那邊拖！選舉也過了，交通部也補助他這麼多！其實從社後到西盛支線，交通部連中央補助多少錢什麼的，全部都算出來了，甚至用什麼車型、路幅多少，都很詳細地規劃出來了。新北市政府的評估也有預留這條支線未來通車時，如何運轉、包括車輛要購買多少，其實都留有伏筆，都有了。總之，就是因為政治因素所以拖了！我覺得交通部補助新北市這麼多，但是講白了，就是因為政治因素，所以它那時候遲遲不想核定！現在時機已過，我覺得交通部要跟新北市政府溝通，交通部要把錢給新北市，新北市竟然拒絕？我覺得這點應該要大聲講出來，不然新北市每天在跟你們講財劃法，在跟你們說補助不夠？這一條是交通部之前就已經說好了，錢都出來了，是新北市遲遲不報公文來，這點我們應該可以大聲講啊！部長？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，委員應該清楚過去所遇到的一些困境，我們現在不論以前的困難在哪裡，就是儘速把它推動、把它完成，跟新北市做有效的協調。兩位委員希望納入中運量考慮的這個重點，我們希望新北市也能夠再審慎評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
張委員宏陸：他講的不是這個。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
吳委員秉叡：我講的中運量是指泰山到板橋這條要用比較大的運量，至於我們的支線，我就沒有這麼高的要求…… |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
吳委員秉叡：因為我們也不想地方要拆遷很多的既有建築物，包括人民的房子跟土地啊，所以為什麼我主張這條要走塔寮坑溪、走潭底溝的上面，因為這樣幾乎就不用去拆遷既有的房屋了。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好的。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
張委員宏陸：一樣啊，在我們社後地區，交通部規劃出來的路線也是幾乎不用拆房子，什麼都已經出來了，就只差新北市政府的公文而已，我覺得這點要拜託部長，新北市一天到晚說你不補助它什麼的，這條我們早就有補助了，是它遲遲不報公文，你也要大聲說給新北市民聽啊！ |
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李部長孟諺：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
張委員宏陸：我們板橋社後地區十幾萬人口沒有捷運，這對板橋的交通衝擊很大啦！我覺得這點要拜託部長，部長，你覺得呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
李部長孟諺：是，我想五泰輕軌一直延伸到板橋可以說是另外一個環狀線的外環，而且它聯絡好幾個既有的捷運，可以把它們串連在一起，所以我覺得它是有很好的轉乘跟接駁效應。現在怎麼樣針對延伸線及支線可以讓新北市趕快來啟動相關的可行性規劃，這個我們來協調，讓它趕快把這個規劃送來核定。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][1] |
第二個就是現在是採輕軌，是不是考慮用中運量才能滿足未來的運量，我們會再詳細的做運量的評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
吳委員秉叡：剛剛張委員講的，我要提醒你，他說新北市政府常常在complain說中央對它的補助是少的、虧待了它，其實不是這樣子，真實不是這樣！你去算一算，各個捷運線，包括環狀線、萬大樹林線、三鶯線這些補助加起來的金額是非常大的，我們是希望真正有補助這麼多就要具體統計出來，不要每天被它吃豆腐，說我們都沒有照顧新北市，這一點也是希望你們要努力，要很會做事，也要把東西講得清清楚楚，不要被它佔了便宜，然後讓它得了便宜還賣乖！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
卓院長榮泰：請部長把統計數字送給委員做參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
吳委員秉叡：送給我之外，要讓社會大眾能夠知道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
張委員宏陸：我們的意思是說，新北市政府常常在給我們中央政府穿小鞋，說我們沒有補助或補助很少，我覺得這個應該也要大聲講，我們剛講的社後跟西盛支線，其實都已經規劃得很詳細了，就只差他們自己不把公文報上來而已，我剛剛已經講了是什麼原因，這點交通部也應該要講啊！交通部本來就準備好了，是新北市政府行政怠惰，是新北市政府對不起新莊跟板橋的市民啊！我覺得這一點你應該要講啊！不然它都跟地方講「沒有啦！交通部又沒有錢要給我們！」這樣子在揹黑鍋的又是我們行政院、交通部耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員今天給機會讓交通部來說明清楚，我想以後要特別注意，我們已經有計畫的，時間拖延下來了，一定會對地方造成不便，我們應該主動爭取說明的機會，或是要求地方政府加速配合的時程。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
張委員宏陸：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][1] |
另外要跟部長討論的是，我們的敬老卡點數從去年開始可以搭乘臺鐵，但是現在不是全臺灣每一個縣市都可以用敬老卡的點數搭乘臺鐵，我不知道部長知不知道其他縣市還沒有開始的原因是什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
李部長孟諺：我知道目前已經有14個縣市有加入敬老卡搭乘臺鐵的措施，其他還沒有進來的部分，我想我們會再請臺鐵跟這些縣市溝通，讓他們知道有這樣的機制，可以讓這些縣市的長輩能夠有更優惠、更好的交通工具來提供服務。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
張委員宏陸：另外，部長，你支不支持，既然臺鐵都可以搭了，高鐵可不可以也開放敬老卡，讓我們的長者也可以用點數抵扣去搭高鐵，你支不支持？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
李部長孟諺：高鐵的部分，因為它的金額比較大，可能一趟或者是半趟就把敬老卡的金額都用完。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
吳委員秉叡：他的意思就是這樣子，用完就用完了，剩下的就去補現金。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
張委員宏陸：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
吳委員秉叡：現在搭乘計程車的部分，地方上也只給你50塊，那計程車起跳就要65塊了，50塊哪夠？所以長者坐計程車，除了敬老卡的金額之外，另外還要再付錢，現在地方是這樣操作。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
張委員宏陸：部長，錢多少是一件事情，給長者方便又是另一件事情，這筆錢本來就是他們可以用的，你如果開放的多，他就可以用的多。我簡單舉一個…… |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
李部長孟諺：才不會剩下的，到下個月就不見了。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
張委員宏陸：你先聽我講。你說錢不夠，那我們以搭臺鐵的部分為例，屏東一個月有500點，部長，500點如果要搭高鐵，至少從高雄坐到臺中應該夠了吧，因為長者本來就是半票，他坐到臺中應該夠了吧，剩下不足的他自己補就好了，對不對？我覺得錢多少這不是問題，你只要開放，人家就會用。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
而且，部長，你知不知道像高雄市政府，他們已經在研擬敬老卡的金額不要每個月每個月結算，而是用一年來結算。因為我們政府的預算本來就是編一年，地方議會也都通過了這筆預算，你都通過一年的預算了，還每個月去結算，讓人家很不好使用。高雄市政府有在研擬這個案子，我不知道部長你知不知道。其實如果這樣子可以做的話，我們只要花一筆錢改善入口的…… |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
李部長孟諺：檢票口。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
張委員宏陸：驗票閘門的設計改一下就好了，所以我才會提出這個建議，部長，我認為應該也可以嘗試著去開放讓人家搭高鐵。我剛剛講的500塊，人家是一個月500塊，如果高雄是可以累積一整年，反正他用完就沒有了，對不對？政府沒有多支出一毛錢，政府的預算沒有多支出，對不對？但是民眾就很好使用，那高雄如果是一年的話，人家他搭兩趟高鐵，搭完就沒了，我覺得政府應該以長者的角度去看這件事情，我不知道部長可不可以研議一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
李部長孟諺：是。現在確實有一個問題，就是他當月如果有結存，有些縣市當月有結存，他沒辦法轉到下個月繼續用，就是不能累積，等於沒有搭完的就浪費掉，所以，如果多一些搭乘的工具，譬如說臺鐵，如果高鐵也可以的話，可能這種沒有搭完賸餘金額就不見的狀況會減少。臺鐵的部分我們優先來處理，高鐵的部分，我們要跟高鐵公司做溝通。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
張委員宏陸：部長，可以搭臺鐵是我從上一屆開始倡議，我努力了四年，本來臺鐵也是有很多想法，我後來就說，你就把這個機制建立起來，要的縣市就會主動加入了，高鐵我認為也是一樣。其實它只要改驗票的程式，不用花多少錢，你把可以用的機具、平臺建置好，我跟你講，有的縣市就會主動加入了，沒有加入的縣市，我跟你講，它自己要去承擔它的責任。 |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
李部長孟諺：彼此會比較嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
張委員宏陸：對啊，彼此會比較，它自己會去承擔。所以我會覺得讓臺鐵跟高鐵都可以搭，這樣對我們的長輩才是好處，而且沒有多花政府一毛錢，只要協調高鐵去改它的程式而已，沒有花多少錢，我希望部長能夠跟高鐵協調一下吧。 |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
李部長孟諺：好，這個部分我們來協調。 |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我很願意站在委員的立場為長輩來設想，提高他們的活動力，所以這部分我們會朝多元而且靈活運用的方向，跟相關的單位來做協調，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
張委員宏陸：對啦！院長，我為什麼會特別提這個？其實各縣市政府認真做的，有的都可以用敬老卡去搭計程車了，有的可以去租借腳踏車了，有的甚至運動中心都可以開放使用了，我們中央政府如果基於關心長者的角度，主動對高鐵的驗票系統去補助一點錢也好，讓它去建置，我跟你講，就會有縣市可以搭了！之前臺鐵一直在講怎樣、怎樣，我後來生氣了，我說你就花一筆錢把它弄好，你看有沒有人來搭，所以現在是不是14個縣市有了？之後會有越來越多的縣市啊！我為什麼要強調這個？高鐵也是一樣的道理啦！你只要做了，就會有縣市讓他可以搭了，這樣子才是中央政府有去關心我們長者啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
卓院長榮泰：非常謝謝委員的建議，雖然這有部分涉及到地方的自治事項跟地方政府的財政規劃，但是我想交通部會積極來協調這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
張委員宏陸：不，院長，我知道這是地方政府的，但是高鐵有沒有建置這個系統，這是我們中央政府的權責，是我們中央政府的責任啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
卓院長榮泰：我們積極來協調這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
李部長孟諺：讓他多幾個選項。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
張委員宏陸：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
李部長孟諺：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
吳委員秉叡：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[88][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝吳委員、張委員，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][0] |
主席：謝謝兩位委員，謝謝卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][1] |
報告院會，休息10分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢，現在休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[89][2] |
休息（16時36分） |
| gazette.blocks[89][3] |
繼續開會（16時47分） |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
92 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-21 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃秀芳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
許智傑 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
魯明哲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
26 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-07-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136601_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1136601_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第21次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─ |
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1136601_00003 |
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質詢,詢答時間30分鐘。主席,麻煩請卓院長跟交通部理部長。好,卓院長、交通部理部長請備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.847 |
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64.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
委員 張委員好您好 委員好不知道你知不知道我們中央有給經費做這個大漢溪這個左側的這個年外道路提外道路的打通原則上是大概是這個月的10幾號快要20號的時候會辦這個啟用典禮院長有受到邀請嗎抱歉我還沒有看到現時的日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
91.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那李部長應該很清楚因為你對台北縣的事情新北市的事情很了解這個題外變道就一段接一段現在就是從新莊的這個鐵路橋到樹林的三家之間這一段幾乎全部都是中央的經費那是委託新北市政府做一些工程7月18號現在我看到的資料是早上9點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
94.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
新北市環狀捷運線幸福站旁邊的這個幸福停車場 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
119.317 |
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142.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
經費由中央大量補助用前瞻基礎預算的建設的預算是本席很努力的爭取三個停車場之一新莊的三個停車場之一啟用典禮一樣沒有邀請立法委員市政府就自己辦了就算了然後好像我們都是無視人一樣根本都沒有關係一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
145.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
174.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我是在想說這樣子的狀況一直發生在我們的身上啊我們到底是我們很努力的在為地方爭取地方該有的這些建設跟該有的這些設施結果只要經費給他給市政府然後他完工之後我相信他沒有通知本席應該也沒有通知交通部吧還是交通部有收到這個啟用典禮的邀請嗎目前我這邊沒有收到已經報完啊對沒有收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
175.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
201.47 |
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那個停車場的啟用點已經辦完了沒有收到邀請所以很多我們中央的預算補助地方是應該給地方錢讓地方有可以好好的建設當然是福國利民對我們新莊有很大的幫助問題是沒有人會講說這是中央進了多少努力中央的民意代表進了多少的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
202.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
215.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
全部都被一刀切因為你的工程委託他辦之後他自己完工之後全部都是他自己的宣傳全部都他的功勞跟我們都沒有關係一樣這樣的狀況一再的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
218.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
243.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我舉的這幾個例子只是聽得到了所以我是在想說這中間是出了什麼問題交通部給錢之後就算了嗎中央給錢之後就算了嗎沒有跟他講說你啟用的時候或是說你要如果假設你要辦一個動工典禮做這些典禮儀式的時候都不用通知都不用邀請了還是你們這一方面都沒有在列管都沒有在沒有在要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
243.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
244.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對,如果是大筆的錢動輒幾十億的經費那中央補助了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
271.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
297.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
你好歹要啟用的時候你通知一聲那中央如果說跟你表達說對不起我那天有重要的公務所以我沒辦法去我派一個代表去那OK啊問題是他不告訴你捏像我剛剛講這個東西已經都辦完了你也不知道然後協助爭取經費的委員也應該有邀請新北市議員去啦那新北市議員回來跟我講說會中全部都是講新北市政府做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
298.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
308.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他也不去講說中央補助了多少錢中央的民意代表爭取了多少錢然後把所有的功勞全部都歸給地方還給歸給地方特定的議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
310.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
310.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
362.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
議員長跟部長,其實像中央補助,像我們現在也有很多人行道的改善工程,也都是中央的。其實地方他拿到錢之後,他擅自變更原來的設計。我們中央也管不著。我之前質詢也就是說我們這種問題,中央應該要一個管控的機制。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
363.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
386.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
406.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
406.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
435.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
為什麼要變更設計而且他變更設計補助單位竟然都沒有智慧的餘地我覺得這個法令可能我們要修改一下要去了解一下好這樣不行請這個交通部還有內政部還有交通部的公路總局我們現在對於路口的改善會有一個到年底有一個相當明確的計劃一定要落實剛剛委員所說的這樣的情況我們來改進這個事實院長我覺得要跟你講這個不是只有在交通方面其實在社會福利方面也是T-PASS |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
436.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
461.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在北臺灣從桃園一直到基隆一千兩百塊只要那幾項的公共運輸都吃到飽對不對以前沒有太多使用者不知道這錢是中央補助的因為他都以為這是地方政府的政策那我舉這樣的例子是要跟你講說我們很多人在做這是對啦但是有時候在外面被掛了 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
465.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
474.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
你也好歹反應一下因為這會影響到最後他為什麼宣傳選舉的時候講說我們的民意代表都沒有在做事啊他最後的結論就是這樣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
479.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
各位報告現在那個TPAS的那個卡我們都有要求上面要有一個印製這個是行政院是我知道那是因為後面有被反映的這個事情之後才開始這樣做嘛那在之前還有一些譬如說我們發那個六千塊直接就是說行政院入帳讓你的帳戶上面看得到誰做的是誰做的我們清楚啦我們清楚民眾不一定清楚所以像我舉這個例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
509.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
530.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
新莊現在除了西順九里之外,所有的中央民意代表、區議員就是我啊。那中央補助的費用,我不敢說完全都是我爭取的,但大部分是我爭取的啊。但是他從來就不講。最後選舉的時候用黨派的意見,就告訴你說新莊的立委都沒有在做事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
532.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
557.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個對我們是非常的不公道那同樣的他可以這樣講說同樣的言下之意是你中央政府也都沒有在做事補助的錢變成白送給他了那我覺得這是要不得我們實事求是本來大家是一個中華民國是一個團隊大家一起做事誰做的就說誰做的誰出多少就誰出多少誰努力了什麼就努力了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
559.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
566.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我的意思是說如果你有大量款項的補助的時候要求這些單位要追蹤啦而不是他拿去了完成了然後就跟我們沒有關係了拿去了就跟我們沒有關係了不可以這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
586.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
614.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
像我剛剛講的那個題外變道的連接全部的費用99%以上都是中央出的就他7月18日早上9點半要辦啟用典禮你沒有接到通知啊我也沒有接到邀請啊地方上的人講說你看市政府又來幫我們做了一個這麼偉大的建設這個建設當初蘇貞昌院長有新聞給新北市政府新北市政府說交通上不是最優先所以他不出錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
616.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
630.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以最後百分之百變成我們是中央政府出錢的結果中央政府全部出錢之後現在啟用典禮他來辦新北市政府來辦院也沒有邀請中央民意代表也沒有邀請這個完全是我看這百分之百真的在我的眼前我們這麼努力爭取了幾、多少年前就開始在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
644.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
665.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
然後行政院最後在蘇貞昌院長的時候問他說新北市政府願不願意做這條路要不要來大家來協調要怎麼開要支出經費的時候他跟你講說不是優先的交通建設項目他一毛錢都不出欸這個張宏路委員也可以作證啊事實上就是這樣啊結果他7月16號辦啟用典禮了他完全不通知我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
667.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
697.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
699.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
723.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這件事情做得很好但是溫子郡從化學區馬上土地再過兩年就分發下來就開始建設人口又會增加非常的多了所以五股交流道改善了一部分問題是絕對問題會繼續不斷我們應該要想辦法來思考這個全台灣最交通最擁擠的交流道 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
724.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
741.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有沒有泰山那一方面可不可以另外再弄一個引道之前一直有這樣的提案跟提議但是好幾個方案都一直被認為不可行就是說他不符合這個道路跟交流道的設計部長可不可以再想想辦法再想看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
742.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
757.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是,謝謝委員的鼓勵,我想五股交流道確實是一個很艱鉅的工程,因為這麼大的交通量又要一邊通車,一邊行車,一邊要試工,那非常的不容易,因為有很多的改道等等的交通維持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
757.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
778.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
779.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
780.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這就是我要問的第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
803.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
818.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個台65南向在新莊我一直主張要增加第二個出口事實上這個也都研究也都納入預計即將要發包希望能夠順利能夠做但是你也是一樣錢給他他怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
819.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
824.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我希望能夠盡量幫我們看緊那個時程因為時間就是對我們來講非常大的壓力再來我今天為什麼跟張宏路委員聯合質詢一個問題就是我們有一個泰山到板橋的這個捷運那現在叫做泰板輕軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
846.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
855.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可是我是要跟你說在一個大都市裡面經過人口這麼稠密的地方板橋跟新莊跟泰山人口加起來一百多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
856.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
882.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
結果他是要用輕軌的方式這個是事實上引起地方上面想說如果你長遠的時間來看你不應該用這麼小的運量這是第一個問題第二個問題我們新莊的後港跟西勝地區就是南新莊的後港跟西勝十幾萬的人口沒有一條軌道運送也沒有捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
883.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
905.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
905.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
934.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
935.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
962.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個軌道運輸也沒有捷運的這個服務希望是不是這一方面可以幫我們考量加強市政府如果他的動作不夠快交通部如何跟他指導如何跟他協助讓他能夠對我們這個地方的需要這一條有一個很大的好處如果能夠跟這個河流共構的話當然基礎啦他是會建在河流的上面基本上不用多少拆遷就可以把這條路可以做起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
963.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
987.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
以上這是我的主張跟建議希望院長跟部長能夠支持這個還要地方新北市政府做很多的規劃包括系統的形式新北市還在過規劃而且對一些這個路廊條件新北市好像還沒有做最後的決定西勝到這個板橋射後這一段其中當中的我這一段是後港西勝支線張豪路那一段是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
988.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
990.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
在大台北地區十幾萬的人口沒有任何的捷運可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1007.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1008.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
部長跟院長,其實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1031.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1049.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1049.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1063.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
新北市政府還給我們之前交通部拿了多少規劃設計經費的補助去,也是我有協助爭取的,他錢都拿了,為什麼他辭職不核定,因為去年在選舉, |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1065.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1088.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
他不想造成選舉的變成中央立法委員有去爭取就是這麼簡單所以他遲遲的在那邊拖選舉也過了我覺得交通部我們補助了他這麼多而且這個從澀後到西勝支線那時候交通部連中央補助多少錢什麼的全部都算出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1089.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1107.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
吳秉叡吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1107.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1126.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
吳秉叡吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1126.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1146.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就是政治因素遲遲他他他不那時候不想核定而已那時機已過我覺得交通部我覺得啦跟新北市政府溝通欸交通部要錢給新北市新北市竟然拒絕我覺得這個應該要大聲講出來啊啊不然新北市每天在跟你們講財化法在你們跟你們講說補助他不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1147.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1176.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那這一條交通部就之前都已經說好了錢都出來了是新北市遲遲不報公文來而已這點我們應該可以大聲講啊報告委員委員應該清楚過去所遇到的一些困境但是我們現在不論以前的困難在哪裡就盡速把它推動把它完成跟新北市做有效的這個協調那兩位委員希望納入重運量的考慮這個重點我們希望新北市也能夠在審慎評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1177.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1204.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我講的中運量是指是泰山到板橋這一條要用比較大的運量至於我們的支線我就沒有那麼高的要求因為我們也不想地方要拆遷很多的既有的建築物包括人民的房子跟土地啊所以為什麼我主張這一條走塔寮根溪走潭堤溝的上面因為這樣幾乎就不用去拆遷既有的這個房屋了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1205.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1221.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1221.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1244.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
新北市一天到晚在說你不補助他什麼的那這一條我們早就要補助了是他遲遲不報公文你也要大聲說給新北市民聽啊我們板橋社會地區十幾萬人口沒有捷運這對板橋的交通啊這衝擊很大啦我覺得這一點要拜託部長啦部長你覺得勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1245.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1261.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
是,我想這個武泰輕軌那一直延伸到板橋可以說是另外一個環狀線的一個外環那我覺得而且他連絡好幾個既有的這個捷運可以把它串聯在一起所以我覺得他是有很好的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1262.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1292.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
﹚議員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1293.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1312.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
剛剛張委員講的齁我要提醒你齁他說新北市政府常常在那邊complain說中央對他的補助是少的虧待了他其實不是這樣子真實不是這樣你去給他算一算包括環狀線各個捷運線萬大處林線山陰線這些補助加起來的金額是非常大的我們是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1314.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1338.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
真的有給他補助那麼多就具體的統計出來不要每天被他吃豆腐說什麼我們都沒有在照顧新北市所以這一點也是希望你們要努力的要很會做事但是也要把東西講得清清楚楚不要被他占了便宜然後他得了便宜還賣乖你部長把統計數字送給委員要參考送給我之後要讓社會大眾能夠知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1340.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1363.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我們的意思是說新北市政府常常在穿我們中央政府的小鞋都說我們補助他沒有補助很少我覺得這個應該也要大聲講我們剛剛講的這個事後跟犧牲支線這個其實都已經規劃得很詳細了就是只差他自己公文不報來而已那我剛剛已經講了什麼原因了這點 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1365.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1389.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
交通部也應該要講啊交通部本來就準備好了是你新北市政府的行政帶舵你新北市政府你是對不起新莊跟板橋的市民啊我覺得這一點應該要講啊讓新北市政府不然他都跟地方講說沒有啦交通部又沒有錢要給我們這樣子背黑鍋又是我們行政院交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1390.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1405.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
謝謝委員今天有機會讓交通部來說明這個清楚,我想以後要特別注意,我們已經有計畫的,那拖延時間下來了,一定對地方造成不便,我們應該主動去爭取說明的機會,或是要求地方政府來加速配合的這個時程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1408.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1429.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
另外部長,我們敬老卡的點數從去年開始可以做台鐵,但現在不是全台灣每個縣市都可以做台鐵。我不知道部長你知不知道其他縣市還沒有開始的原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1431.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1457.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我知道目前已經有14個縣市有加入敬老卡搭乘台鐵的措施那其他還沒有進來的部分我想我們會再請台鐵跟這些縣市來溝通看怎麼樣讓他們知道有這樣的一個機制那可以讓他們的長輩這些縣市的長輩能夠有更優惠更好的交通工具來提供服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1458.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1470.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
另外部長你支不支持台鐵都可以搭了高鐵可不可以也開放敬老卡讓我們的長者也可以用點數去抵扣去搭高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1472.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1489.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
高鐵因為他的金額比較大他可能一趟或是半趟就把敬老卡的金額都用完他的意思就是這樣子啊用完就用完了剩下的就是補現金啊他們現在計程車的搭乘在地方上他也只給你50塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1490.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1497.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
府長,錢多少是一件事情。給長者方便又是一件事情。這筆錢本來就是他們可以用的。你如果開放得多,他就可以用得多。我簡單舉一個...才不會剩下的到下個月就不見了。不不,你先聽我講齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1517.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1540.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
你說錢不夠,那我們以臺灣搭台鐵的,屏東一個月500點。部長,500點高鐵如果從屏東,他至少從高雄坐到台中應該有了吧?因為他本來就是半票啊,他坐到台中應該有了吧?剩下的他其他他自己補就好了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1541.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1562.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1562.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1582.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
吳秉叡 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1582.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1604.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我們只要花一筆錢改善這個路口的那個雜票的那個設計改一下就好了所以我才會提出這個所以我覺得部長我認為啦應該也可以是嘗試著去開放讓人家搭高鐵我剛講的500塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1607.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1627.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉叡吳秉 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1627.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1630.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
現在確實有一個問題就是他當月如果有節存有些縣市當月有節存他沒辦法轉到下個月繼續用 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1646.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1646.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
部長可以搭台鐵是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1675.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1702.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
從上一屆我努力了4年本來台鐵也是有很多想法我後來就說你就把這一個機制把它建立起來人家要的縣市就會主動加入了高鐵我認為也是一樣其實他只要改這個他驗票的這個程式沒有花多少錢你把這一個可以用的這一個機具這個把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1703.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1729.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個平台你把它用好我跟你講人家有的縣市的人人家就會主動來了那你沒有的縣市我跟你講那他自己要去承擔他的責任彼此會比較對啊彼此會比較他自己會去承擔所以我會覺得就是說讓台鐵跟高鐵都可以搭這個才對我們的長輩是一個好處沒有多花政府一毛錢只要協調高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1731.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1731.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我希望部長能夠跟高鐵協調一下吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1754.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1776.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
對啦,院長我為什麼會特別提這個,其實各縣市政府認真做的,有的進勞卡都可以去搭計程車了,也可以有的可以去租借腳踏車了,有的甚至這個那個什麼運動的中心什麼他都可以開放了,那我們中央政府我們如果基於 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1777.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1797.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
關心長者的角度我們主動去把高鐵的這一個驗票的系統我們去補助他一點錢也好讓他去建制這樣我跟你講就會有縣市可以搭了啦之前台鐵一直在講說啊怎樣怎樣我後來我生氣我說你就花一筆錢你把它用好 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1798.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1825.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你看有沒有人來搭所以現在是不是14個縣市有了那會越來越多的縣市啊我為什麼要強調這個高鐵一樣的道理啦你只要做了就會有縣市讓他可以搭了啦那這樣子才是中央政府有去關心我們長者啦非常謝謝委員的建議雖然這涉及部分涉及到地方的自治事項跟地方政府的財政規劃但是我想交通部積極來協調這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1827.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1827.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
謝謝吳委員、張委員 |