| IVOD_ID |
154532 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154532 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-35 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
35 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-04T10:15:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-04T10:27:58+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63671f30c17e5ce8caf95a596e6684da4ca3475b9734ef28f9b7c2a13ffe8bb52a5b4fb6e55fc44f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:15:50 - 10:27:58 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第35次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部、金融監督管理委員會、經濟部、數位發展部、內政部列席就「洗錢防制法規範下洗錢防制對象在新興通路之風險評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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鍾佳濱委員質詢 |
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主席、代黨委員先進、列席政府局長、市長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者女士先生有請法務部的黃次長然後請調查局吳處長、銀行局莊局長、經濟部的商發署陳副署長、數位發展部的產業署的林副署長請再協助請我們費詢的單位 |
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35.66 |
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65.152 |
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好 次長我今天題目很清楚網路平台要納入洗房的申報範圍條碼超商繳費要主付款防詐騙來 我們來看一下就是新興科技之下其實我們民眾很多都是透過大平台來進行購買這是最典型的我先請教一下如果是銀樓直接賣給消費者那它是一個我們洗房上我們的銀樓要不要做KYC要嗎要但是如果銀樓在網路平台上 |
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66.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
67.893 |
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請問網路平台是否需要向法務部調查局申報? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.725 |
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96.95 |
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目前如果是直接向銀樓業購買的話當然是要向沒有沒有沒有網路平台跟銀樓業買斷喔在網路上喔消費者跟網路平台買了誰跟誰申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
102.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
125.039 |
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目前沒有規範對不對請回沒有法規往下看目前盤點我國洗錢防治法的相關辦法剛剛為什麼問法務部調查局因為他是洗房法下這些申報的一個受理機關如果以職業別來講有以下6個職業包括律師、會計師如果以業別指定的辦法包括金融機構以及最近 |
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125.539 |
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152.394 |
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很注意的虛擬通貨平台及交易的第三方支付還有融資性租賃那範本類的就是這些機構他必須用標準的範本來進行這樣的一個交易次長沒錯吧?沒錯好那我們看一下營郵業者防制洗房以及打擊滋洪的辦法第7條他說交易的情況之下要留存客戶資料那如果又顯不相當的時候他要進行申報 |
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153.513 |
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175.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請問Costco或PG Home它是不是營樓業Costco會申報我答他是不是營樓業他如果是販售這個有關這個高價值的那個珠寶之類的話他也會一起錢防制法規範Costco不是營樓業但是Costco會申報那PG Home呢PG Home的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
203.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不知道?好沒關係來次長你又發現了齁如果一個不同的銀樓業者好幾家不同的銀樓業者在同一個電商平台銷售誰才知道客戶資料?誰要負責申報?如果ABC三個銀樓業者在Costco銷售他們的珠寶誰要申報?Costco嘛剛剛有講了嘛是不是?確定嗎?那如果他說PC Home咧?誰要申報?好你們再去想一下齁往下看來NVIDIA |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
226.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
最近火紅根據第三方支付的防制洗錢及打擊滋恐罵友第7條一樣要確認客戶身份而且只要超過新台幣5萬元或者信用卡超過20萬元那麼他就要有疑似洗錢或滋恐的時候三支業者要進行那請問你們看NVIDIA這個多少錢139萬這是H100的超過20萬以上他透過三支來支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
240.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
250.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第三方支付的部分業者必須要申報只要那個金額超過現金五萬塊以上然後信用卡交易超過二十萬以上都必須要申報就是如果他透過三支 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
251.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
265.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他透過三資來支付可是三資怎麼知道他買什麼東西我們往下看什麼是H100H100是高科技阿美國禁止輸入大陸阿網路平台要賣阿要不要KYC誰對他做KYC是平台對他做KYC還是三資對他做KYC有沒有法律規範怎麼稽查他是不是透過郵遞或會計接到受制裁的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
市長有沒有發現我們的洗房法上是不是有規範需要在周延的地方有沒有感覺我們當然洗房法規範特定的業別要做相關的洗房業務啦但是透過平台的部分倒是委員關心的他做過一個平台在轉介的話這部分的申報主體的話就會開始移動嗎往下看就是我要問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
305.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
328.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果說今天是個洗錢業者透過3個人頭到網路平台每一個他都買了將近50萬的商品那這樣有沒有涉及洗錢誰會知道來往下看所以說不同消費者以同一個IP位置他用不同的名稱但是同一個IP在網路平台上連續購買接近50萬的商品社委需要向法務部調查局申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
332.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
352.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就要看這個販售這個商品的是哪一個業別而且他在平台上啊單比50萬看這個平台是哪一個業別所駕那個如果是他是他自己的品牌比如Costco他自己駕的OK如果是綜合電商呢綜合電商的話目前他還是以他的賣方賣方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
372.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他用消費者不同的消費者現在是不同的消費者剛剛講的是好幾家營樓現在不同的消費者他要洗錢他用不同的名稱用同一個IP在網路上的平台去買市長知道哪裡需要再周延了吧清楚你簡單回應一下來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
373.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告這的確如同我剛剛所說的我們的洗錢防制法只就業別做一個特別的申報的義務跟規範那至於它是否有些脫法行為不同的消費者或透過平台這部分我們可能未來在相關的規範要加強來速發部速發部就有第三方支付的機構的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
392.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
網路平臺可不可以納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
406.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
430.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
蘇發部 你們要亂管嗎 網路平台網路平台如果透過第三方支付進行金流的支付的話第三方支付會知道異常交易第三方支付知道 但是平台知不知道第三方支付怎麼會知道呢 剛剛說了啊不同的營樓業者或者說同一個洗錢飯透過不同名稱他怎麼知道對於第三方支付來講 他不同的名稱啊只有平台有可能勾結出來 次長是不是這樣次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
434.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
454.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我是說你們要慎重的考慮未來平台業者是不是要審慎的找到一個主管機關加以納入 可以嗎這個平台業者部分要看他是業別的主管機關平台就跟你講了 業別 平台現在主管 電商平台誰管對嘛 速發部嘛 那請告訴速發部嘛 來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
455.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
現在另外一種透過繳費條碼到便利超商林桂繳納的詐騙手法我們都知道如果詐騙犯透過APP他傳給受害者三個繳費條碼叫他去繳費他到林桂繳費是繳現金超商收的是現金但是超商收的這三個條碼一個代表是誰一個代表是貨品 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
495.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一個代表的是金額一個代表的是收付者收這個款的人他透過銷帳檔這可能是虛擬平台可能是三資那麼他們就進行電付貸款電付款給詐騙者然後呢過了7到10天看便利超商跟三資或虛擬平台的契約關係他們再把貨款呢移過去知道這個時間差了吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
526.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
詐騙犯可能會先收到平台或三資的電款但是呢受害者繳的現金他會大概延遲個7到10天看便利超商業者跟這個平台的契約關係他來支付市長有沒有看到一個一個寂寂的往下看就是債圖金流啊如果說我們再往前看如果說今天受害者去報案了一天內就報案了錢還在哪裡錢還在超商手上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
528.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
551.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是如果平台或三資先墊付給詐騙犯的以後這筆錢你們去阻卻了便利超商不要付給平台或三資誰會受損害市長誰會受損害是平台或三資嘛 對不對所以兩個要件如果警方來得及即時在便利超商把這個現金不要變成了支付給平台那麼消費者的錢就可以追回嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那誰要去負這個損失平台跟三資嘛那這樣子平台跟三資會不會比較認真來做KYC了解了齁那以後你們怎麼做告訴我你打算怎麼做跟委員報告這個外界有在倡議啦是不是說有延緩說延緩這已經不用延緩了本來他們的契約就是7到10天現在是你們有沒有能力發掘之後阻止超商轉帳對 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
579.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
599.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就是延緩跟圈存的問題對就是圈存的問題他已經有再途期限7天了請你們想想幾大超商業者跟這些平台和三資的契約關係只要是超過一天以上的你們都來得及啊那這樣的方式下三資跟平台他才會擔心收不到錢他會認真的做KYC是不是這樣子那你們要去強化宣傳往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好了現在基層檢察官胡不堪言因為根據這個律師的打擊之恐辦法第18條還有營樓第13條他們都要有工會對不對法務部可以去工會查核嗎我們事實上現地查核我們現在每年都在進行好那請問三支有沒有查核誰去查核訴發部你們怎麼查核有工會可以查核嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
656.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主要在限地跟非限地都有查核你們有沒有查核報告人家目前律師跟營樓都是公會查核啊三支你們是一家一家查核是不是好那社長那你知道問題出哪裡了以這樣的一個管制能量你們檢察官他們訴發部是一家一家的去查核人家是公會查核來往下看現在我的要求時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
660.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
666.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
請次長研議將網路平台納入洗錢防制及打擊自恐規範的方案並一個月提出運費報告．可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
692.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
委員因為這涉及到跨部會啦那是不是我們再多點時間兩個月兩個月好可以那請經濟部來經濟部代表請盡速協調便利超商業者跟內政部和速發部串接去代收款的查詢機制你懂我的意思嗎如果警方知道了他要去坑怎麼樣跟超商知道受害者的金錢是不是還在超商手上嘛那第一時間可以主詐可以嗎我們來協調超商 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
696.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
708.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好那最後各主管機關包括銀行局、法務部、調查局應該明確的各打擊知恐辦法內要求公會進行自律及協助管理減輕基層公務員尤其我們檢察官的負擔請問銀行局可以嗎如果你們有的話報委員我們會遵照辦理好謝謝那速發部呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
719.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
法務部．經濟部 |