| IVOD_ID |
154364 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154364 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-36,15-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-27T11:03:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-27T11:12:04+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726c338a0b1f213f800cda706b406df85b80e70b5822ad681b89b5c8fdb204d45c695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:03:25 - 11:12:04 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：併案審查
（一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
861 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時3分）主席、各位委員。有請鍾副主委，還有人事行政總處。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：麻煩鍾副主委，還有人事行政總處處長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：Nga'ay ho！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：Malimali Masalu！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：中華民國憲法增修條文規定，國家應依民族意願，保障原住民族之地位及政治參與。本席所提的修法都是合憲，你們提到憲法第五十六條，我們沒有違反，所以這個部分，我們一個一個來講。很重要的，原住民族基本法依憲法增修條文規定，要原住民族自治，但是8年來一直都沒有提，夷將主委8年來都沒有提，過去的主委、過去的總統都有送原住民族自治法到立法院，唯獨這8年來都沒有。蘇貞昌院長說分流立法，今天就是分流立法的開始，所以我才會提出增加第二項，由行政院長提名，給我們原住民去行使同意權，我本來要設計送到立法院行使同意權，但是立法委員原住民立委很少啊！所以交給原住民的民意代表，從區長以上的行使同意權，跟公平會、NCC、中選會送到立法院行使同意權的很多啊！大法官也是、考試委員也是、監察委員也是啊！對不對？這有什麼違反憲法？沒有違反憲法。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][1] |
好，我們一個一個來，你說由政務委員來兼任不行，過去的蒙藏委員會就是由政務委員來兼任啊，對不對？一直到106年9月15號以前的蒙藏委員會都是由政務委員兼任的。現在行政院組織法第四條設了很多委員會。第五條規定，行政院置政務委員七人至九人，特任。政務委員得兼任前條委員會之主任委員。這是由高金素梅委員所提的，由政務委員來兼任，完全符合行政院組織法。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][2] |
任期4年，你說不要有任期，會影響……，寫了很多理由，那個理由都不是理由，國家通訊傳播委員會主任委員的任期就是四年，中選會主委的任期是四年，公平交易委員會的任期也是四年。所以寫的時候要謹慎一點喔！包括人事行政總處也要謹慎一點，本席是老公務員，也是學法律的，過去很多組織法，尤其是原民會的組織法都是我在推動的。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][3] |
好，我們看為什麼要有分山原、平原，過去從民國85年6月1號開始，原民會成立的歷任主任委員從華加志、尤哈尼．伊斯卡卡夫特是山原，任期都很短；陳建年主委是平原，任期比較長一點；瓦歷斯．貝林是山原；接下來第5位是夷將．拔路兒主委，他當了9年的主委，夷將主委當了9年，是平原；章仁香是平原、孫大川是平原、林江義是平原，對不對？夷將·拔路兒是平原、現在的曾智勇是山原，山原、平原真的不同啊！很多的地方不一樣，鍾副主委，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][4] |
你沒有像我以前當副局長、當副主委的時候，我跑遍全臺灣啦！包括都會區，你就做不到，現在的主任委員更做不到，為什麼？因為他們也很忙，常常要來立法院，我也瞭解啦！所以主委是山原還是平原，絕對有差別。不然你回去查一下，夷將主委去山地鄉到底有幾次？有沒有深入到每一個部落？絕對沒有啦！所以這個部分有它的必要性，所以本席不會隨便提啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][5] |
好，我們看馬英九時代，103年12月18號提出「原住民族自治暫行條例草案」，規定行政院應設原住民族自治政府，行政院設原住民族自治政府──這是行政院院會通過的，它的主席由各族委員推舉，而這些委員也就是由各族群去推舉，這個是由下而上的對不對？置主席一人，綜理自治區政業務，由委員推舉提請行政院院長聘任之。不是沒有過啊！院會通過了，因為人事行政總處處長比較年輕，過去沒有看到這個東西，鍾副主委，你應該有看過這個對不對？這個送到立法院了，很可惜沒有三讀通過啊！所以這個部分沒有通過，理由我就不講了，後來我們有把它改成推動條例。族群委員，你這邊寫得那麼長，理由都很好，但是過去八年來都沒有這樣做，本席擔任常務副主委、擔任處長的時候都符合你寫的啦！但是過去八年來都沒有做啊！原住民族自治，族群委員有沒有跟主委說一定要提？為什麼八年沒有提？土海法，他們要代表各族群，所以土海法要送啊！原民會連送都沒有送到行政院，這是唯一的，所以不得不修啊！這個部分是這樣，因為你根本就沒有善用族群委員，我也去了解過，你們的族群委員有沒有參加委員會議或相關的這些法案，沒有啦！每天在鄉下，你可能不知道啦，鍾副主委，你不知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，其實我們的各族群委員都有分別就各處室的一些工作，在地方做一些考察、會勘或者參與各項會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我都知道，我常常碰到他們，他們都代表主任委員參加婚喪喜慶！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：那是其中一項而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這不應該的！不應該的！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：參加部落的歲時祭儀。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分，因為時間的關係，後面還有很多委員要提，我要特別講的是，有一個案子比較急迫，0403地震，你回去趕快去查一下，然後協調行政院趕快核定，就是原民會有提0403震災花蓮部落旅遊振興計畫，總經費3,000萬元，到現在行政院還沒有核定，趕快協調，可以嗎？好，謝謝 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][1] |
下一位請牛煦庭委員進行詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
176 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-36,15-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
徐欣瑩 |
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黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
115 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-06-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136701 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修
正草案」案；(二)委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草
案」案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席、各位委員、有請中副主委。麻煩副主委。還有人事行政總署。麻煩處長。來齁。來齁。是,政委好。麻煩你,麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻煩你。麻 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
42.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
60.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
本席所提的修法都是合憲你們提到的這個56條憲法56條我們沒有違反所以這個部分我們一個一個來講很重要的原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
61.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
87.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
基本法依憲法徵修條文規定要原住民組織制但是一直8年來都沒有提一將主委8年來都沒有提過去的主委過去的總統都有送這個原住民組織法到立法院唯獨這8年都沒有蘇貞昌院長說分流立法今天就是分流立法的開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
114.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以我才會提出這個相關的這些第二項增加第二項由行政院院長提名給我們原住民去行使同意簽我本來要設計送到立法院行使同意簽但是立法院原住民立委很少所以交給原住民的民意代表從7張以上的行使同意簽 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
115.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
139.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
跟公平會、NCC、中選會、送到立法院行使同意權．很多啊．大法官也是、考試委員也是、監察委員也是啊．對不對．這有什麼違反憲法．沒有違反憲法．好．我們一個一個來哈．你看．你說政府委員不行．政府委員來監不行．過去的蒙藏委員會．就是由政府委員來監的． |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
167.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一直到106年9月15日以前的盟戰委員會都是政務委員、委員間的那現在行政院組織法第四條這個各委員會這邊設了很多委員會第五條說行政院自政務委員7人至9人特任政務委員得兼任前條委員會之主任委員所以高金素梅提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
168.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
195.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
由政務委員來監,完全符合行政院組織法。完全符合行政院組織法。你說任期四年,不要有任期和影響,這個寫了很多理由,那個理由都不是理由啊。國家通信傳播委員會的主任委員就是四年啊。中選會的也是四年啊。公平教育委員會也是四年啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
196.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
221.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以寫的時候要謹慎一點包括聯事行政總書要謹慎一點本席是老公務員也是寫法的過去很多的組織法尤其是演命會的組織法都是我在推動的好我們看為什麼要有三眼平眼過去從民國85年6月1號開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
224.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
247.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
嚴明會成立的主任委員從華嘉志、尤哈尼伊斯卡卡夫特是三眼,任期都很短了。陳建聯主委是平眼,任期比較長一點。娃麗絲貝琳是三眼。接下來從第五個一將主委,她當了九年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
249.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
269.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具:「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案．一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具:「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案．一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具:「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案．一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具:「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案．一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
271.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
292.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對你沒有像我以前當副局長當副主委的時候我跑遍全台灣了包括都會期了對你就做不到現在的主任委員更做不到為什麼他們也很忙了常常要來立法院我也了解了所以主委是三員還是平員絕對有差別了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
293.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
）立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案案。（二）委員高金素梅等16人擬具:「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案案。．鄭天財 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
342.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
滿一九十代一百零三年十二月十八號提出原住民族自治暫且條例行政院應設原住民族自治政府行政院設原住民族自治政府這是行政院會通過的他的主席由各族的委員來推及而這些委員也就是各族群來推這個是由下而上 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
343.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
370.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
由下而上,自主席一人,終於自治期中由委員推舉提請行政院院長聘任之。不是沒有過,院會通過了,因為人事行政總署你比較年輕,過去沒有看到這個東西,總副主委你應該有看過這個,對不對?這個送到立法院,很可惜沒有三讀通過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
373.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
400.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以這個部分沒有通過我理由就不講了我們後來有把它改成推動條例那這個這個族群委員啊你這邊寫的寫的那麼長理由都很好但是過去8年來都沒有這樣做了本席當了常務副主委當處長的時候都符合你寫的了但是過去8年來都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
402.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
429.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
原住民族自治,族群委員有沒有跟族委說一定要提,為什麼班也沒有提。土海法,他們要代表各族群啊,所以土海法要送啊,從原民會連送都沒有送到行政院啊。這是唯一的,所以不得不修啊。所以這個部分是這樣,因為你根本就沒有善用族群委員啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
431.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
442.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我也去了解過你們族群委員參加這個委員會議或是相關的這些法案沒有了每天在鄉下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
443.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
468.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
每天在鄉下,因為你可能不知道啦,政府罪你不知道。各位報告,其實我們那個族群委員都有分別就各處事的一些工作,在地方做一些考察會刊,或者是參與各種會議。我都知道,我常常碰到他們吶,他們都代表主任委員參加婚喪喜慶的。都代表主任委員參加婚喪喜慶。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
470.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
487.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那是其中一項而已。這不應該的!不應該的!所以這個部分,時間的關係,這個後面還有很多的委員要提。這個我要特別講的是說,有一個案子比較急迫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
488.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
零四零三地震你回去趕快去查一下然後協調行政院趕快核定就是說嚴明會有提零四零三震災花蓮部落旅遊振興計畫總經費三千萬元到現在行政院還沒核定趕快協調可以嗎好謝謝是謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
514.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
518.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好,謝謝鄭委員。那下一位我們請牛許廷委員進行詢問。 |