| IVOD_ID |
154333 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154333 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-36,15-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-27T09:12:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-27T09:21:54+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:12 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/767b6a9d27b3726ca7c2cb4dea52fb6cda706b406df85b801377aa0ad8b68879b9131942535bd7ee5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:12:42 - 09:21:54 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議（事由：併案審查
（一）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。
（二）委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
154 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（9時12分）謝謝主席，麻煩請常務副主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：黃委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃委員國昌：副主委早。延續上次對原民會質詢的內容，我對於花納稅人的錢拍主委馬屁這件事情完全沒有辦法接受，為什麼這樣看呢？我們的賴清德總統事實上對於清廉的要求非常高，很早以前他就說要杜絕拍馬屁文化的態度，結果我們來看看我們前任的原民會主委幹了什麼事情？花了145萬納稅人的公帑出他個人成果專刊，這項個人成果專刊不是在講原民會做了什麼，是在講他個人的豐功偉業！ |
| gazette.blocks[2][1] |
我們來看一看，原住民族委員會八年施政成果專刊有沒有出？有出，花了112萬，頁數有221頁，我手上就是八年的專刊；結果前主委夷將今年花了一百四十幾萬出了一本125頁的書。我當初在質詢的時候，他說什麼？他說這當然不是在推銷他個人，他指責我還沒有看到他的專刊內容，出版的時候會提供給我們參考。現在出版了，我手上就是這本書，這本書叫什麼？《原權推手 承先啓後》夷將．拔路兒，這本書的作者是誰？請！這本書的作者是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：原民會。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
黃委員國昌：這本書的作者是原民會，那奇怪了，他的提名是原權推手，他指的是誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：夷將．拔路兒，前主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
黃委員國昌：來看看，巨細靡遺，描述主委的生平，125頁有40頁在吹捧他的生長、求學還有原運的啟蒙。60頁全部都是他的照片，125頁中花了上百頁在介紹他的生平、到各個地方去的照片，這本書副主委看過沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是，有。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃委員國昌：對於這樣子內容的摘要，你同不同意？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：對，這本書的確是在整理過程中有多論述他個人一些對原住民的相關奮鬥歷程。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃委員國昌：他個人啦！我們花公務預算搞這種事情喔？真的在討論過去這八年原民會做什麼的有幾頁？有幾頁？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：我沒有記那個頁數，後面還是有提到我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒關係，我幫你整理出來啦！24頁，我請教你一個問題，24頁的內容有哪一個項目是這本書沒寫的？有哪一個項目是你們之前八年成果專刊沒寫的？全部都是用磅數非常足的銅版紙，花了一百四十幾萬在搞個人宣傳！我們看裡面，他的原運啟蒙之路、他小時候的照片、他念書時候的照片，下面60頁是他到各個地方的照片。這本書後面的價格一本300塊，原民會買了幾本？這本書一本300塊，我是不相信放在書店的書架上有人會買，這本書原民會買了幾本？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：我們沒有買。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有買？145萬換了幾本回去原民會？這個標案書出來，你花了145萬嘛？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
黃委員國昌：你拿到幾本書？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：應該有一、兩百本。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
黃委員國昌：一、兩百本？所以一本多少錢？145萬你拿到100本，所以一本多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：我們不是買的，就是因為出版單位…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
黃委員國昌：對，所以你花了145萬，給你100本這個東西，公務的錢是這樣花的？平均1本1.45萬，拿來吹捧主委，可以這樣幹喔！原民會是預算太多是不是？錢花不完是不是？可以這樣搞喔！你覺得適合嗎！納稅的錢這樣花，你覺得適合嗎！展現你的態度啊！納稅的錢這樣花，你覺得適合嗎！請說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，我想當初可能是因為夷將主委在任內八年的確有一些工作，所以我們做了八年的一些…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
黃委員國昌：不是出過一本八年成果專刊了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：對，我們也希望跟他個人長期為原住民整個…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以你的意思是，你們要為這一筆錢的花費持續的辯護，未來還是會這樣搞，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：不會、不會，應該……因為前面…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
黃委員國昌：不會啊，你如果沒有做錯，你為什麼不這樣搞？每一個主委都可以出啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：因為前面幾任也有做過那樣的一些整理。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
黃委員國昌：有搞得這麼誇張喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：應該…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
黃委員國昌：有搞得這麼誇張喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：應該沒有那麼細。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
黃委員國昌：來！看一下，政府機關辦理政策宣導不可以下列方式置入性行銷，不可以做首長自我宣傳，這個有沒有違反政府機關政策文宣規劃執行注意事項？有還是沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：我們還是做一個政策說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
黃委員國昌：你現在還在講政策說明喔？125頁上百頁，都是他個人的宣傳跟照片，然後你現在跟我講這個是政策說明？如果按照你這樣解釋，125頁中有上百頁在做個人的宣傳，沒有違反這個注意事項，那請問什麼時候會違反這個注意事項？請說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：是不是請委員讓我們也去檢討看看這個部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
黃委員國昌：你要怎麼檢討？可以啊！來、來、來，行政院主計總處預算法第六十二條之一執行原則，不可以違反我剛剛所講的注意事項，你說要檢討有沒有違反，好！有沒有違反剛剛的注意事項，這個錢可不可以用公帑出，還是要請夷將自己花145萬把那100本買回去，這經費可以報銷嗎？以後原民會還會幹這種事嗎？你剛剛說要檢討，可以！需要多久？檢討不是用嘴巴講的啦！書面檢討報告有沒有違反規定、誰要出錢、經費可不可以報銷，你說要檢討，我給你時間檢討，需要多久？一個禮拜夠不夠？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：一個月的時間，一個月。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
黃委員國昌：這種事情的檢討要檢討一個月喔？原民會的效率這麼差喔？這麼簡單的事情要檢討一個月喔？兩個禮拜好不好？可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
黃委員國昌：好！ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
鍾副主任委員興華：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
主席：下一位我們請蘇巧慧委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
176 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-36,15-2 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
115 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-06-27 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136701 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136701_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第2次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
併案審查(一)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修
正草案」案；(二)委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族委員會組織法第三條及第四條條文修正草
案」案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
10.665 |
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13.131 |
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誒,謝謝主席,先是麻煩有請常務副主委。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
42.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
副主委早了,尤其上次對於人民會執行的內容我對於花納稅的錢拍主委的馬屁這件事情完全沒有辦法接受為什麼這樣看呢我們的賴清德總統事實上在清廉的要求非常的高很早以前他就說要杜絕拍馬屁文化的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
53.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
結果我們來看看我們的原民會主委前任的幹了什麼事情花了145萬納稅人的公帑出他個人成果專刊這個人成果專刊不是在講原民會做了什麼是在講他個人的豐功偉業我們來看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
81.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
原住民族八年施政成果專刊有沒有出有出花了一百一十二萬頁數有兩百二十一頁我手上就是八年的專刊結果前主委一降今年花了一百四十幾萬出了一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
兩百一百二十五頁一百二十五頁的書啊我當初在質詢的時候啊他說什麼他說這當然不是在推銷我個人啊他指責說我還沒有看到我的專刊內容出版的時候會提供給我們參考現在出版了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我手上就這本書啊這本書叫什麼?原權推手 陳先啟後 宜將把路兒這本書的作者是誰?請 這本書的作者是誰?呃 園民會這本書的作者是園民會那奇怪了他提名是原權推手他指的是誰?宜將把路兒宜將把路兒 來來看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
具繫米儀描述主委的生平一百二十五頁有四十頁在吹捧他的生長、求學還有原因的啟蒙六十頁全部都是他的照片一百二十五頁花了上百頁在介紹他的生平到各個地方去的照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
204.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這本書副主委你看過沒有我對於這樣子內容的摘要你同不同意對這本書的確是在整理過程中有多論述他個人的一些對原住民的相關奮鬥歷程他個人啊我們花公務預算在搞這種事情喔真的在討論過去這8年原民會做什麼的有幾頁有幾頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
212.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
232.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我沒有進那個頁數後面還是有提到我們沒關係我幫你整理出來啦24頁24頁我下一個問題啊24頁的內容有哪一個項目是這本書沒寫的有哪一個項目是你們之前的八年成果專開沒寫的全部啊都是用棒數非常足的銅板紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
241.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
花了一百四十幾萬在搞個人宣傳我們看裡面嘛他的原意啟蒙之路他小時候的照片他念書時候的照片下面六十頁他到各個地方的照片這本書後面的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
271.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
274.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
一本三百塊原民會買了幾本這一本書一本三百塊我是不相信放在書店的書架上有人會買了這本書原民會買了幾本我們沒有買沒有買一百四十五萬換了幾本回去原民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
298.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
302.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個標案書出出來 你花了一百四十五萬嘛 是你拿到幾本書應該都有一百 一兩百本一兩百本 所以一本多少錢一百四十五萬 你拿到一百本 一本多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
322.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
332.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我不是買的 就是因為有出版單位對 所以你花了145萬給你一百本這個東西公務的錢是這樣花的喔平均一本1.45萬拿來吹捧族委可以這樣幹喔原民會是預算太多是不是錢花不完是不是可以這樣搞喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
354.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
354.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請說明﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
375.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
384.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
各位報告我想當初可能也就是因為一向主委在任內8年也的確有一些工作我們做了8年的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是出過一本8年成果專刊了嗎?所以你的意思是說你們要為這一筆錢的花費持續的辯護未來還會這樣搞是不是?不會啊你如果沒有做錯你為什麼不這樣搞?每一個組委都可以出啊有搞得這麼誇張喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
425.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
應該...應該沒有那麼細來看一下政府機關辦理政策宣導不可以下列方式置入性行銷不可以做首長自我宣傳這個沒有違反政府機關政策文宣規劃執行注意事項有還是沒有我們還是做一個政策說明啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
442.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
470.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
497.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是不是我們也請委員讓我們也去檢討看看這個部門你要怎麼檢討可以啊來來來來來行政院主計總出預算法62條之一執行原則不可以違反我剛剛所講的注意事項你說要檢討有沒有違反好有沒有違反剛剛的注意事項這個錢可不可以用公帑出還是要請移降 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
498.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
503.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
自己花145萬把那100本買回去這經費可以報銷嗎以後園民會還會幹這種事嗎你剛說要檢討可以需要多久檢討不是用嘴巴講的啦書面檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
518.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
531.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有沒有違反規定錢誰要出金費可不可以報銷你說要檢討給你時間檢討需要多久一個禮拜夠不夠一個月的時間一個月這種事情的檢討要檢討一個月喔委員會的效率這麼差喔這麼簡單的事情要檢討一個月喔兩個禮拜好不好可以嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
547.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
547.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
下一位我們請舒巧慧 |