| IVOD_ID |
154206 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154206 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-26T09:28:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-26T09:39:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0ea7781078621bd15d631a58fc6837bcc258fa09de8d0f308f090ddb9b7d6d6941d823e46ab58e485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:28:12 - 09:39:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-26T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長就「面對國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層之因應作為」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月26日及6月27日兩天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
182 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
張委員啓楷：（9時28分）謝謝主席。請連次長，還有台電的王總經理。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：我們再請連次長、台電王總經理。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
張委員啓楷：次長，恭喜。在我質詢的同時，對面的行政院門口正有17個團體在陳情抗議，北、中、南都有喔！他們在抗議什麼？聯合反對麥寮電廠延役！我先唸一段他們的宣言，這些團體包括六輕污染傷害聯合求償自救會、雲林縣淺海養殖協會、南部反空污大聯盟、臺灣健康空氣行動聯盟等17個團體。他們怎麼說？他們說：「麥電續燒的每一塊煤炭，都是助長空污/氣候戰爭鋒火的殺人子彈。麥電延命，每多發一度煤電，就是在155公里的麥電污染影響圈內，無差別持續射殺奪命國人！」次長和總經理，我問一下，你們知道全臺灣第二大污染源是哪裡？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
王總經理耀庭：麥寮這邊的電廠滿多的。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以5月的時候1號機應該要關閉啊！結果讓這個污染源又繼續了。我們再看下一張，昨天環境部也公布了一個資料，就是我們的碳排不只沒有降，反而是增加的，一個嚴重問題就是我們的煤還繼續在燒。裡面還提到我們國家2020年總溫室氣體排放量不只沒有達到2020年的2%管制目標，溫室氣體最大宗就是二氧化碳，後面有一句最重要的話就是，二氧化碳排放量和2005年相比，不只沒有降，還增加了2.55%。全臺灣第二大污染源，你們讓它繼續，本來在5月底要停的，結果你不停，甚至還繼續讓它燒，然後連環境部都在提醒你了，二氧化碳要繼續這樣排放下去嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][1] |
我再問你幾個問題，現在在我們對面行政院的這些團體要求一個東西，那就是你的黑箱合約能不能公布？現在和麥寮電廠的合約能不能公布給大家看？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，整個商業行為必須要談誠信的問題，整個合約的穩定性跟可預見性也必須要維持，這個合約是25年的合約。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
張委員啓楷：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王總經理耀庭：這25年的合約裡面，電廠建置的固定成本必須要能夠讓它回收，所以這個部分我們必須要照這個合約走。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
張委員啓楷：總經理，有兩個重點很重要，台電跟麥寮電廠買電用的是我們人民的納稅錢，你是國營事業，這本來就要公開嘛！對不對？要對人民負責啊！所以立法院才會這樣要求你，民脂民膏，本來就是要公開嘛！第二，這攸關到人民的健康啊！全民這麼關注，這個合約為什麼不能公開？可以公開嗎？這合約有什麼見不得人的地方？有嗎？有任何見不得人的地方嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王總經理耀庭：沒有見不得人的地方。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以能夠公開嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王總經理耀庭：我們回去研究一下，好不好？就法的部分我們研究一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
張委員啓楷：不是啊，有什麼見不得人的地方？為什麼不能公開？之前就是25年對不對？現在又突然延了一年多，到底怎麼訂的？這裡面大家很清楚了嘛！時間就是到5月底，1號機就是要停啊！你基於什麼理由？你現在說的理由就是可能之前有些地方還沒有發電完成，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王總經理耀庭：就是固定投資成本。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
張委員啓楷：可是合約裡面看的時間點就是5月底，1號機就要停啊！但是你該停的不停，又不把合約公布，所以人民就抗議啊！是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王總經理耀庭：因為這個是2015年的時候主管機關有做一個生煤減量28%和22%的部分，這個部分牽涉到麥寮電廠的固定投資成本回收，所以我們在新的合約，這一年半目的就是讓它…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
張委員啓楷：總經理，你看到的是麥寮的問題，但有沒有看到人民的問題？我剛剛給你看的是什麼？第二大污染源，連環境部都在提醒你了，犧牲的是人民的健康跟生命喔！兩權之間到底是人民比較重要，還是麥寮電廠比較重要？你可能還要再想一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][1] |
第二個我再問你，所以你何時可以確定合約可以攤出來給全民看？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王總經理耀庭：我們儘快回去研究以後再…… |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
張委員啓楷：你下午下班前給我答復好不好？現在人民跟團體還在那邊曬著大太陽等你的答案，好不好？今天下班前，五點之前好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王總經理耀庭：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
張委員啓楷：你不是回去研究嘛，五點之前給我，可以公開吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王總經理耀庭：我們回去研究，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
張委員啓楷：好不好？五點之前你要給我答復。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
再來，現在雲林縣不是沒有通過燃煤的許可證明嗎？縣政府都還沒通過，你怎麼可以就去延長合約呢？這個有沒有違法？你有辦法運作嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王總經理耀庭：這個部分必須在合法的狀況之下才…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
張委員啓楷：那你就不合法啊！是不是？總經理，縣政府沒有給你燃煤許可證明，你怎麼可以去簽一個再延長一年半的合約？這違法欸！次長，台電是不是違法？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
王總經理耀庭：台電不會違法做這個事情。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
連次長錦漳：這個是依法律規定來做啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
張委員啓楷：我們針對問題啊！請針對問題回答問題，縣政府沒有通過燃煤許可證明，台電可以延長合約嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
王總經理耀庭：我們的合約裡面有這個規定，就是必須在合法的狀況之下才能執行合約。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
張委員啓楷：對啊！那你就不合法啊！縣政府沒給許可證，你要怎麼合法？所以你就違法了，就違法啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
連次長錦漳：沒有啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
王總經理耀庭：還沒違法。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
張委員啓楷：你沒有許可證，怎麼不違法？你就是違反這一條啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
連次長錦漳：合約上有規定它要取得燃煤許可證才可以運作…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
張委員啓楷：先後順序…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
連次長錦漳：現在是在配套情況下進行，沒有違法…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
張委員啓楷：次長和總經理，你們先後順序不要弄亂好不好？它要先到縣政府拿到燃煤許可證，你才能夠去簽約啊！結果你們不是，合約已經簽下去了，你先後順序弄亂了吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
王總經理耀庭：因為合約裡面有這一條條文，就是說它必須是合法的才能執行。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以你的意思就是你現在的約還不合法，還不算是合法合約是不是？是這樣嗎？現在還不是合法的合約嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
王總經理耀庭：應該是說這個生煤許可它必須自己去拿到，它拿到以後才能夠根據這個來執行合約，合約上是這樣定，所以有沒有拿到這個許可證明、這個可能要麥寮那邊…… |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
張委員啓楷：所以麥寮電廠不要說未來或者是一年半，如果它一輩子都沒有拿到雲林縣的燃煤許可證，這個合約就無效了，它不能燒喔，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
王總經理耀庭：必須在合法的狀況之下執行…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
張委員啓楷：對嘛，是不是這樣？你回答我，它如果沒拿到，不要說延長一年半，而是它一輩子都不能再燒，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
王總經理耀庭：它要有許可證明才能夠燒。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
張委員啓楷：對嘛！所以白話文就是，它沒有拿到就不能燒嘛！第三，我問你一個很重要的事情，這是我們的國家政策，次長和總經理都知道，我們國家的政策就是要減少煤、要轉型對不對？結果你卻決定繼續燒煤、這麼嚴重的一個污染。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
王總經理耀庭：報告委員，整體煤的用量是一直在持續下降的。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
張委員啓楷：持續下降，所以這邊增加一些沒有關係嗎？所以麥寮這邊增加沒有關係嗎？這不是矛盾嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
王總經理耀庭：整體是下降的。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
張委員啓楷：我同意你整體下降，那為什麼那邊的量突然要高起來？再加上去不就又高起來嗎？再想一想好不好？我上個禮拜站在這個位置問了郭部長，他自己一直說你們沒有缺電，對不對？你們都強調自己沒有缺電，卻又打自己的嘴巴，這是你的政策、國家的政策，也是經濟部、台電的政策，你的燃煤是要減少的，你自己打嘴巴，還讓麥寮可以再增加。所以我明確要求郭部長，你如果確定、你信心滿滿一直在講沒有缺電，你就不要去危害人民的健康，危害人民的安全、生命啊！我就要求他說，你如果沒有缺電的話，麥寮電廠就把它停掉啊！我上禮拜不是這樣講？他說回去再好好看一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
王總經理耀庭：這是兩件事啦，因為我們的合約執行必須是穩定跟可預見性，否則其他IPP採購的時候，他們會擔心未來它的25年合約是不是會有問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
張委員啓楷：合約裡面有很重要的事情，我剛剛就在提醒你，合約裡面你看到的到底是麥寮的利益，還是人民的利益？人民這邊是健康跟安全，哪一個重、哪一個輕？總經理、次長和經濟部要好好想這個問題，好不好？這是第一個問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][1] |
現在更嚴重的是什麼？你一直在講合約，合約你看到的是以前發電量還沒有發完的你要讓它發完，一般的人民看到的是什麼？合約時間真的到了啊！裡面有發生了某些變動，或者可能是縣政府或人民說你不要燒那麼多煤，你某些額度沒有達到，可是合約裡面最重要的點是什麼？今年5月應該要停止了。合約要看重點嘛，對不對？你看到的重點為什麼跟人民都不一樣呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
王總經理耀庭：不是，因為它有遇到一些不可抗力因素，在合約執行上面，商業合約都有訂定不可抗力因素…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
張委員啓楷：對嘛！你看到部分，我說你還有更重要的──人民的健康和生命安全嘛，好不好？還有你自己國家的政策，你就是要讓煤炭減少的，好不好？我再重複上個禮拜講的話，我也問過郭部長，你不要自己有衝突了，你自己都強調沒有缺電，結果你又要去燒煤，要去影響、傷害到人民的健康與安全，這是很大的問題，好不好？再想一下，如果真的不缺電，就趕快停下來，第一個，剛剛講到本來縣政府沒有核發給它燃煤許可證，它根本就沒辦法動啊，這是一個，所以這個合約目前看起來還不見得可以執行，對不對？第二個，今天五點鐘下班之前，我是希望你合約就是公開啦，要不然的話，人民就會一直罵你是黑箱，好不好？五點之前我等你的答復。好好想一想，以人民蒼生為念，人在公門好修行，先顧人民的健康跟生命安全，不是只有一直在看財團或者麥寮電廠的利益好不好？共同努力，謝謝！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：接下來我們請張嘉郡委員詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
234 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-17 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
吳春城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
177 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-06-26 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136701 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136701_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請經濟部部長就「面對國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層之因應作為」進行報告，並備質詢 |
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1136701_00004 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.847 |
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11.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
張啓楷委員請做詢答臺電王總經理好次長恭喜齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
38.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
現在我在執行的同時對面的行政院門口正有17個團體在陳前抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
42.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
64.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
北中南都有喔他們在抗議什麼聯合反對賣電賣了電廠嚴厲我先練一段他們的宣言這團隊包括6000污染傷害聯合球場自救會雲林前海養殖協會南部反空污大聯盟台灣健康空氣行動聯盟17個團隊他們說賣了繼續燒的每一塊煤炭 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
99.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
都助長了空污氣候戰爭的烽火的殺人子彈賣寮營命每都發一度電就是在155公里的賣寮污染影響圈內沒有差別的持續在射殺奪命國人處長你好總經理我問一下你知道嗎全台灣第二大的污染源是哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
106.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
轉台灣喔第二大的污染源麥寮這邊的電廠蠻多的應該一號機要關起來啊你進行這個污染源又繼續了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們再看下一張好不好 來你再看張啊環境部也公布了一個資料他說啊我們的碳排不只沒有降反而是增加的一個嚴重問題就是我們的煤還繼續在燒他如果在說中了我們國家2020年總溫室的氣體排放量不只沒有達到2020年的2%管制的目標喔裡面最重要的後面要顧的溫室氣體的最大中心是二氧化碳嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
145.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
現在在對面的行政院的團體要求一個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你的黑箱合約合約能不能公布你現在叫賣寮電廠的合約能不能公布給大家看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
214.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
跟委員報告齁其實整個商業行為必須要談誠信問題啦齁那整個合約的穩定性跟可預見性也必須要維持齁所以我這個合約是25年的合約那這25年的合約裡面這個電廠建制的那個固定成本必須要能夠讓它回收所以這個部分我們必須要照這個合約去做你白天去買電你去跟賣掉電廠買電用的是我們人民的納稅錢嘛你是國營事業嘛這本來就要公開嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
216.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
227.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
對人民負責啊所以行立法院才會這樣要求你民恥民膏本來就是要公開嘛但是又關到人民的健康啊全民這麼關注啊這個合約為什麼不能公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
228.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
245.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
可以公開嗎?這合約沒有,這合約有什麼見不得人的地方?有嗎?有任何見不得人的地方嗎?沒有見不得人的地方。所以這樣公開唄?我們回去研究一下好不好,就是法的部分我們研究一下。不是啊,你有什麼見不得人的地方為什麼不能公開?你進行的就是5年對不對?你現在兇兇,你還演年華。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
到底怎麼定的?這裡面大家很清楚了嘛你時間就是到5月底1號機就在停啊那你記憶什麼理由?你現在講的理由就是說可能你的那個之前有些地方那個還沒有發電完成對不對?可是你合約裡面看的時間點就是5月底啊1號機在停啊那你該停的不停 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
297.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那你又不把合約公布啊人民就抗議啊是不是這樣因為這個是2015年的時候齁主管機關有做一個分媒深媒減量28個22%的這個部分啊這個部分牽涉到他麥寮電廠他的固定投資成本回收的這個部分所以我們在新的合約這一年半目的就是讓他把他所以你看到你看到的是麥寮的問題有沒有看到人民的問題你繼續燒剛我剛剛可以看的是什麼第二大污染源 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
302.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
年環境部都在提醒你了犧牲的是人民的健康跟生命喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
304.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
330.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
兩錢之間到底是人民比較重要還是麥寮電廠比較重要?你可能要再想一下。最後再問你。所以你當時可以看到你合約能夠談出來給全民?全民看。我們盡快回去研究以後再回覆。你下午下半前給我答案好不好?現在人民跟團體還在那邊曬著大太陽在等你的答案好不好?今天下班前我這樣進行好不好?你不是回去研究嗎?五點之前給我,可以公開吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
331.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
331.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
358.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
369.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
管政府不給你這個展面許可證明你怎麼可以去簽一個延長一年半這違法欸 這台電是不是違法 欸經濟部 市長沒有 台電不會違法做這個事沒有 我們針對問題啊 沒有沒有沒有針對問題 回答問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
382.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
現政府沒有通過燃煤稀可證明,臺電可以繼續延長合約嗎?對啊,你就沒合法,管政府沒理由合法,所以你就違法了捏。就違法了喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
394.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
395.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還沒違法還沒違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
412.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
412.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
韓國瑜主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
439.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
444.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以賣了電廠啦不要說未來或者是一年半他一輩子都沒有拿到婚姻關的這個燃煤許可證這個合約就無效了他不能燒喔是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
463.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這是我們國家政策阿!市府一定會怕喔!總經理應該都知道阿!我們的國家的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
486.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
513.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
就是要減少煤的勒?要轉型對不對?結果你去做了一個繼續燒煤的而且這麼嚴重的一個污染報告委員整體的煤的用量是一直在持續下降的喔持續下降啊今天這邊加一點沒關係喔所以賣兩這邊增加沒有關係嗎?這不是矛盾嗎?整體是下降的齁整體下降我可以同意你整體下降那你為什麼那邊突然要高起來?這經濟不就又高起來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
516.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
537.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好不好?再想一想我上個禮拜站在這個位置我問了郭部長我會講一直在講你自己一直在講你沒缺電阿對不對?你把槍都自己沒有缺電阿你又打自己的嘴巴這是你的政策欸國家的政策也是經濟部也是台電的政策你的燃煤燒煤是要減少的你自己打嘴巴你才讓賣料可以再增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
539.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以我明確的要求了郭部長你若確定你自欺滿滿一直在講你沒有缺電你就不要去危害人民的健康危害人民的安全啊生命啊所以我就要求你說你若我沒有缺電的話你慢點去把它停掉喔我聽你不是這樣說他說回去好好看一下電這是兩件事啦因為我們必須讓合約執行是必須是穩定跟可預見性否則其他的IPP我採購的時候會有他們一些擔心說未來他的25年合約是不是會有問題那合約裡面有那個重要的事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
569.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
595.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我剛剛就在提醒你合約裡面你看到的到底是賣了的利益還是人民的利益人民這邊是健康跟安全哪一個重哪一個輕總經理跟經濟部次長還有經濟部要好好想這個問題好不好這是第一個問題那現在更嚴重什麼你一直在講合約合約你看到的是說這個以前沒有發電量還沒有發完你要讓他發完一般的人民看到是什麼你合約時間就這麼久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
598.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
裡面有發生了某些變動,或者你說可能是憲政或人民說你不要燒那麼多煤你某些額度沒有達到,可是最重要的是什麼?合約裡面最重要的點是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
608.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我再重複上個禮拜講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
631.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
659.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我也問了郭部長你不要自己有衝突了你們自己在強調沒有缺電結果你又要去燒煤要去影響到傷害到人民的健康安全這是很大的問題好不好再想一下如果真的不缺電趕快去停下來第一個剛剛講的他本來縣政府沒有合法給他燃煤的許可證他根本就沒辦法動啊這是一個所以這個合約目前看起來還不見得可以執行對不對?但是你今天下班進行5點進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
661.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
661.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好,謝謝 |