| IVOD_ID |
154168 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154168 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-1-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第19次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-25T09:52:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-25T10:23:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:30:37 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63224dc0dd2f91fb1eece966f4b15e2f4c867c7a3ae89c54664f2be01c033e410b3b91af4fa2cf135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:52:52 - 10:23:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第19次會議（事由：一、覆議案之處理事項。（6月21日）
二、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。（6月25日）
三、6月21日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。
四、6月25日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| gazette.lineno |
148 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（9時53分）副院長，行政院院長，各部會首長。有請卓院長。 |
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主席：請卓院長備詢。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：卓院長，Nga'ay ho。是你好的意思 |
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卓院長榮泰：你好。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：非常謝謝，原住民保留地禁伐補償條例昨天我們等了又等，我也打了很多次電話到總統府，終於公布施行，謝謝。好，我們看禁伐補償，在104年12月18號，立法院根據原住民立委的版本，沒有行政院版本，三讀通過，當時就是105年每公頃2萬塊，106年開始每公頃3萬塊。通過之後，鄭文燦擔任桃園市市長的時候，他馬上加碼，他的理由是什麼呢？因為臺灣省政府從民國82年起禁伐補償每公頃就是2萬塊，現在還是2萬塊太少，加碼到4萬塊，比較遺憾的是他擔任副院長之後，卻沒有去推動加碼的修法。我們看原住民族基本法第二十一條，政府或法令限制原住民族利用前項土地及自然資源時，受限制所生之損失，應由該主管機關……該主管機關是誰呢？森林法限制了我們、水土保持法限制了我們的土地，我們只能造林，造林之後又不能砍伐拿去賣，包括區域計畫法、國土保安用地等等。過去一開始的條文是由行政院來編列預算，後來被修正為由原民會編列，事實上應該要依原基法，由各該主管機關來編列預算。 |
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今年爭取禁伐補償的歷程真的是很艱辛，沒想到都還要表決。所有原住民的立委都有提案，而且有兩位民進黨的立委提案，也有很多民進黨的立委連署，像伍麗華的提案，有15位民進黨的立委連署，陳委員的提案有19位民進黨的立委連署；如果加上國民黨、民眾黨、無黨籍，差不多超過90位的立委支持，結果還要表決。表決的結果，原來連署伍委員跟陳委員的立委都投反對票，形同撤案一樣啊！所以這個部分是需要去檢視的。 |
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我們一直在關心的重點，我也一再地跟行政院主計總處包括跟原民會講，114年度如期實施，現在就要開始編列預算，而且要編列額度外的新增預算。院長，這個不是原民會可以決定的，是不是可以在額度外新增預算？ |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我現在在思考的是，依照原民會今年的預算、明年的概算，我們用今年的預算跟明年的概算來看，它的規模現在用26億再加26億，就是增加3萬元的補助，用40%來執行單一政策之後，對於將近60萬的所有原住民族朋友，我們有什麼方式來普遍照顧他的權利？目前我認為看起來是相當地困難，以現在預算的規模來看是如此。預算規模能膨脹到多大？這個現在我無法表示，但是單一部會的預算規模，應該就是在它現在概算的額度裡面。依照目前看起來，未來這個部會只在單一政策就用40%的預算，再加上法定支出，只剩下大概百分之十幾的預算用在全體的原住民族身上，這個我現在是很傷腦筋的。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：院長，不必傷腦筋啦，就是法律義務，這最簡單，我做30年的公務員，它是法律義務支出。 |
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我剛剛有講原基法第二十一條，它不應該只有原民會來定、來編列，包括農業部，甚至內政部都應該編列。 |
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卓院長榮泰：這個前提是，我認為每一個部會都應該廣泛地照顧所有的政策，單一政策用40%的預算，這樣的例子前所未有，真的是很傷腦筋！ |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個法律不是新訂定的，院長。 |
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卓院長榮泰：但是比例的原則要顧及啊！ |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：你要講比例的話，你就要以鄭文燦前副院長當時的比例來看。 |
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卓院長，你的施政方針口頭報告在5月31號提出來了，有說「本院將依憲法法庭判決，儘速完成『原住民身分法』修法」，我要特別跟院長非常審慎且非常嚴肅地來解決這個問題。111年10月28號有作成憲判字第17號判決，依這個憲法判決有兩個途徑，一個途徑就是剛才你的口頭施政方針報告裡面所提的修正原住民身分法；另外一個途徑是另定特別法，這個是我以下必須讓院長瞭解的。原住民族與平埔族群原來就互不隸屬了，從清朝到日本到中華民國政府，從過去的熟番、生番、高砂族，平埔族群，都是這樣不同的法律、不同的管理，我們讓院長審慎地評估，希望能夠參考我的意見。 |
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行政院在106年8月18號就提出了原住民身分法的修正案，就是針對平埔族，特別在原住民身分法修正案，我先跟院長報告，原住民身分法是在陳水扁總統任內第一年三讀通過，我那時候是處長所草擬出來的。行政院106年8月18號的版本增加了平埔原住民，然後明定其民族權利另以法律定之；原住民身分法在106年9月22號送到立法院之後，立法院在106年10月11號、12月20號、12月21號及107年12月24號完成審查。但是從107年12月24號一直到立法院第9屆109年1月31號這一年多的時間，基於絕對多數的民進黨立委在立法院沒有把它列入立法院院會，我們也沒有反對喔，但是沒有讓它三讀通過，為什麼呢？茲事體大、真的是茲事體大！ |
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本席也把這一段、包括前面我講的，在憲法法庭判決之前我也寫了信，每一個大法官我都寄給他們，讓他們瞭解茲事體大，我的判斷啦！沒有人、大法官沒有告訴，這是我的判斷，所以後來他們才會說可以修原住民身分法或者是另訂專法，是有其需要審慎評估之處。因為時間的關係，我所謂的時間是憲法法庭所定的時間──3年，到明年就3年了，所以要請原民會、行政院加速來擬訂，我的建議是平埔族身分法，如果按照整個憲法的判決的條文內容、理由等各方面的話，制定平埔族身分法應該是最恰當的，而且他的權利義務是另以法律定之。院長，可以朝這個方向嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，現在我們承續過去的程序下來，針對原住民身分法請原民會繼續再跟各界做更多的溝通，也希望他具體有一個期限能夠拿出一些溝通之後對於這個修法的方向，目前的進度在這裡；至於已經進行什麼樣的溝通，相信要由原民會來跟委員報告一下。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為時間的關係，我的建議就是原民會趕快草擬草案，然後跟各界溝通，現在是6月，希望在今年的10月或11月能夠送到行政院，給行政院一些空間、時間來討論，希望能夠在今年年底以前送到立法院，為什麼呢？因為明年只有半年的時間了，5月底以前必須三讀通過，才能夠符合憲法法庭的時間。 |
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曾主任委員智勇：謝謝委員的指教，我們會照這樣的進度，我們現在也跟專家學者在研究。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，加油！院長在5月31號施政方針口頭報告裡面提到政府也將落實「原住民族基本法」，俾利原住民族自治的推動，書面報告也提到健全原住民族土地法制，維護原住民族土地權益。我要特別跟院長做詳細的說明。中華民國憲法增修條文第十條第十二項規定，國家應依民族意願，保障原住民族之地位及政治參與，並對其教育、文化等很多，我們就講土地，「其辦法另以法律定之」。現在原住民族基本法就是根據憲法增修條文第十條第十二項制定的，於94年2月5號公布施行。 |
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這裡面特別授權給行政院院長，「行政院為審議、協調本法相關事務，應設置推動委員會，由行政院院長召集之。」這是非常重要的一個條文，但是過去沒有善用這個條文，我當常務副主委的時候都有善用這個條文，把案子送給當時的院長去討論、通過，推動我們原住民族基本法應該制定的法律。我就舉個例子，原基法推動會第11次會議，111年8月28號，這個議程在討論什麼？南島民族論壇推動情形報告。只有報告事項，而且跟原基法毫無關係，到底哪些法律還沒有制定應該要好好討論。112年9月13號也一樣，一個報告事項，是長期照顧，這跟原基法有什麼關係？類似像這樣的。 |
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我現在讓院長包括各部會瞭解一下，1722年清朝康熙61年劃設番界，大清律例，是法律喔！清朝的法律大清律例規定，「民越界」指的人民是誰？清朝的人民啊！民越界入生番地視同出盜入關塞，清朝時候的臺灣地圖，從中國大陸看臺灣；牡丹社事件，之前日本為了要攻打牡丹社，他就說生番地是無主之地，生番地不是清朝的土地，他就打了，當然我們原住民族把這些日本人打敗了。 |
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1895年日令第二十六號，日本統治臺灣的時候，第二十六號令怎麼說？「無官方證據及山林原野之地契，視為官有地。」日本敗戰回到日本，有沒有把土地帶回去日本？沒有，還在臺灣，但是臺灣省政府在36年訂了一個臺灣省土地權利清理辦法，其特別規定經前臺灣總督府依據土地調查及林野調查清理之結果收歸公有之土地，概不發還，這是臺灣省政府於1947年（民國36年），臺灣總督府當時收歸官有的土地概不發還，所以就繼續變成國有土地。 |
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臺灣省山地保留地管理辦法，由省政府於民國49年訂的，劃設了山地保留地24萬公頃，76年起，因為省議員、因為立法委員的建議，所以臺灣省政府根據行政規則，到現在還是喔！用一個要點、計畫增劃編原住民保留地，而這個原住民保留地管理辦法後來提升為中央的法規。 |
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中華民國的總統陳水扁總統在民國91年10月19號跟原住民族簽訂了協定，這個協定就是條約，為什麼呢？依照條約締結法的規定，協定就是條約的名稱。當然我們還是回到法律，陳水扁總統的條約應該去落實，原住民族基本法第二十條明定，「政府承認原住民族土地及自然資源權利。」然後原住民族或原住民所有、使用之土地、海域，其回復、取得、處分、計畫、管理及利用等事項，另以法律定之。所以陳水扁總統任內開始，也就是本席擔任副主委的時候，草擬原住民族土地及海域法，本席召開跨部會的會議，開了10次，然後送到行政院，當時的蘇貞昌院長不是交給負責原民會業務的林萬億政委，是交給誰呢？他考量說不要影響到所謂的公共工程，我的判斷啦！交給當時的政務委員、行政院公共工程委員會的吳澤成政務委員，來負責審查原住民族土地及海域法。本席親自去跟他做簡報，簡報完之後，吳澤成政委開了3天3夜，當然每一天都是隔了一個禮拜、隔了一個禮拜，審查作了一個決定，然後送到行政院院會，把原住民族土地及海域法通過送到立法院，很可惜，送到立法院的時候，因為屆期不連續，所以就沒有審議。馬英九總統任內也送了兩次，也都是一樣，時間都是太晚了。蔡總統105年8月1號向原住民族道歉，並且承諾會加快將原住民族自治法、原住民族土地及海域法送請立法院審議，但是這兩個法律8年來都沒有送啊！我們是非常的遺憾。 |
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我要特別跟院長還有各部會說明，從這個資料、面積就可以知道，不要擔心，原住民族很寬宏的，原住民保留地剛剛講24萬公頃，經過增劃編之後，現在是二十六萬多公頃。公有的、維持公有的話，48.66%，仍然維持公有的原住民保留地喔！由各部會去管理的、去使用的，還維持百分之48.66%；私有的、已經給原住民所有權的51.34%。原住民自己用夠了就好了，政府機關要用沒關係，因為要做什麼使用沒關係，所以不要擔心說有了土海法是不是全臺灣就不見了？不會！我講這個數字就是要讓院長跟各部會，尤其是原民會，你好好的說明這個數字、數據，很多傳統領域已經劃設了，也相安無事啊！所以院長，土海法希望能夠以陳水扁總統當時所提出來的、非常審慎所審議的為基礎，你們可以各部會再討論，趕快送吧！送到立法院，可以嗎？ |
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卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我相信委員也清楚，土海法涉及的層面範圍非常廣泛，所以才會數次在立法院裡面進進出出，但是據我所知…… |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：8年來沒有進啊！ |
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卓院長榮泰：它還沒有真正進入到實質的討論，都是一些程序上的問題，我想原民會應該有一個新的想法，或是在廣蒐各界的意見之後，目前它有沒有更積極的態度，請原民會來報告。 |
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曾主任委員智勇：因為要重啟這個，我們還要再徵詢地方政府。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為你剛上任、院長剛上任，我的建議就是以陳水扁總統任內的，第一個，我開了十幾次會議；第二，吳澤成政委召集各部會開了三天三夜，然後送到行政院會所審議出來的，所以以這個做基礎很快地把它提送到行政院，我的建議是這樣。 |
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卓院長榮泰：好，再向委員請教，謝謝。 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：原基法第四條，要實行原住民族自治，陳水扁總統任內92年跟96年提了兩次原住民族自治區法，它是一個程序性的立法，當時原住民的立委是不贊同，因為每一族都要另外制定提出自治法送到立法院，這是違反自治制度的一個立法例，所以就沒有審查了。然後馬英九總統在99年10月8號提了原住民族自治法；103年12月18號又提了一個原住民族自治暫行條例，內政委員會針對馬總統第一次提的召開了三次的審查，很可惜沒有完成三讀。後來104年又提了暫行條例，本席已經開始當立委了，104年已經是第8屆的最後一年，我們經過很多次的協商討論，把它改為原住民族自治推動條例。就我一個老公務員來講，或是考量到整個各縣市的狀況而言，是可以參考我們立法院各黨團所討論的原住民族自治推動條例回去作參考。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][1] |
本席建議不要再花很多錢，院長，你看一下這個這張表，原民會從105年一直到今年，對原住民族自治的預算花了真的非常非常多錢，總共加起來3,639萬8,000元，結果8年來連送立法院一個草案都沒有。所以這個部分過去已經有經驗了，陳水扁總統時代我還擔任處長的時候，我們草擬草案，各族群、各縣市都討論過了，所以這個部分不要再花那麼多的經費。我的建議就是參考陳水扁總統的草案，馬英九總統時代的草案，加上原住民立法委員在立法院、剛才所講的原住民族自治推動條例，這三個再去做審慎的討論，能夠提出行政院的一個自治法的草案，院長可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這個跟剛剛那個有類似的情況，也是在立法院裡面，經過很多次的進進出出了…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這8年來沒有啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
卓院長榮泰：對，但是這個直接牽涉到現在地方政府很多行政權的權限啊、行政權的劃分啊，還有地方參政權等等，同時我想原住民族朋友的意見也要把它趨於一致，再來，當然國會的生態我們也會注意。這一點我會請主委能夠持續的瞭解原住民族朋友、各個族群對這些法案的一些基本態度、目前進展到什麼程度，我們看看國會裡面大家能不能取得共識，才能來進行。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：院長，我再補充，馬英九時代原住民族自治推動條例的部分，當時孫大川主委參考了姚嘉文前院長的一個建議，類似像國家公園這樣的一個區域，所以不影響到現行的地方自治，也不影響所有的縣，本來我們擔心花蓮縣會不見、臺東縣會不見，但這個就不會，所以我說要好好把它拿出來討論，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
卓院長榮泰：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：本席會很務實的，請院長放心。最後，有請內政部部長，主委可以回去了。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][1] |
0403地震的重建，也許是院長太忙，我曾經拿一封信給你…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
卓院長榮泰：有、有。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以一定要往這個方向去進行。關於重建，在院長還沒上任前，行政院所提的方案，重建（購）貸款最高350萬利息補貼，修繕是150萬利息補貼，我要特別提到，現在完全交給內政部，其實我認為是不足以解決這個問題，一定要其他部會協助。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][1] |
25年前的921，訂了一個重建家園貸款信用保證業務處理要點，這包含銀行的參與以及怎麼樣去處理；所以當時350萬到150萬利息補貼，150萬以下是免息，25年前是這樣，以當時物價指數、利率各方面來看，當初訂了然後修正的都是一樣，都是讓它更好，這是25年前的處理要點。我建議一定要解決這個問題，所以要請院長指派政務委員，召集內政部、財政部，甚至經濟部相關部會好好討論，這樣的話才能夠真正解決，從0403地震重建或是重購這樣的方向好不好？可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
卓院長榮泰：報告委員，整個0403的重建，不僅是我本人擔任小組召集人，我們也會請工程會陳金德主委統合，因為有很多牽涉到相關業務，也有跨部會的，包括內政部等等在內，針對類似問題做最終處理，現在有一部分已經在處理當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我知道，因為現在正在……但重建或是重購是後續就會面臨到的問題，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭委員、謝謝卓院長。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][1] |
下一位陳素月委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
委員陳素月書面質詢： |
| gazette.blocks[35][1] |
案由：本院陳素月委員，針對詐騙案件層出不窮，基層警員受理、偵辦的詐騙案件數量非常多，已造成基層警力沉重的壓力，特向內政部提出質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][2] |
說明： |
| gazette.blocks[35][3] |
台灣近年受詐騙損失的金額，根據刑事局統計，2021年56億，2022年69億，2023年超過88億元，創歷史新高。詐騙氾濫，隨之偵辦案件數增加，現已造成各級法院、檢警調及矯正單位沈重負擔。據基層員警表示，平均派出所一天會有2-4件詐騙報案，受理報案、查案、抓人等所有事情均由第一線基層警力處理，加上原本的固定勤務，如巡邏、指揮交通、路檢、臨檢等，基層員警還需輪班，勤務加重情況下恐力有未逮，有警員接受媒體採訪時表示，「只能上班前提早來，下班後多留一下，不然就休假處理案件，時間必須壓縮再壓縮。」 |
| gazette.blocks[35][4] |
偵辦一起詐騙案，員警至少需完成以下流程：找被害人做筆錄、蒐集資料、調監視器、找涉嫌人、通知涉嫌人、等銀行資料回傳通報、調金流，若涉及虛擬貨幣，還需調查虛擬貨幣的幣流。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][5] |
目前詐騙報案有兩種管道，一是派出所受理報案，二是撥打165反詐騙專線，但165專線是以電話與民眾聯絡後，再轉介給員警，民眾仍須至派出所再做筆錄，此時165專線的資料可能需要勘誤、更正，基層警員卻沒有相關權限，無法修改錯誤，反致警員作業程序更複雜、人力及時間成本增加。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][6] |
爰此，本席建請內政部研議下述措施，讓員警心無旁騖、專心打詐： |
| gazette.blocks[35][7] |
一、各分局設置打詐專案小組，若分局規模較大，則設置兩個專案小組； |
| gazette.blocks[35][8] |
二、165專線報案資料，應開放各分局打詐專案小組修改資料以節省時間； |
| gazette.blocks[35][9] |
三、內政部應協同數位部、金管會、NCC與法務部，建置跨部會的詐騙案件資訊系統，透過AI與科技，民眾報案後無須再接洽其他部會，各部會並能即時分享資訊、掌握最新進度，且節省第一線基層員警的文書作業時間。舉例：當基層員警立案後，銀行帳號資料即由系統通知法務部、金管會，手機門號資料通知NCC，若為第三方支付資料，則通知數位部；若涉Meta、Google、LINE，telegram之方式，則由數位部等相關部會下架該付費廣告； |
| gazette.blocks[35][10] |
四、加強基層警力對虛擬貨幣、幣流之專業認識與查緝能力。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][11] |
五、加速汰換逾齡之鑑識設備，增購足夠數量之新型科技偵察設備，如情資整合分析工具及鑑識筆電、手機解密取證設備等，並應新增科技偵察該項專業加給。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
主席：下一位請伍麗華委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
90 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
院會-11-1-19 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
韓國瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
江啟臣 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
黃健豪 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
盧縣一 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林國成 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
林宜瑾 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
17 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-06-25 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1136301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1136301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[1] |
1136301_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期第19次會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
施政質詢
對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─ |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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副院長我們行政院院長各部會首長有請我們卓院長來請卓院長備詢卓院長你好你好好這個非常謝謝這個進法原住民保留地進法補償條例在昨天 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
41.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
66.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
在我們等了又等,我也打了很多次電話到總統府,終於公布施行,謝謝。好,我們看這個進法補償,在104年12月18日立法院根據原住民立委的版本,沒有行政院版本,三讀通過,當時就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
94.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
一百零五年每公頃兩萬塊（一百零六年開始每公頃三萬塊（通過之後（我們鄭文燦擔任桃園市市長的時候（他馬上加碼（他的理由是什麼呢（因為臺灣省政府（從民國八十二年起進法補償（每公頃就是兩萬塊（所以現在還是兩萬塊（ |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
97.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
政府或法令限制原住民族利用前向土地及自然資源的時候,也就是原住民族土地及自然資源的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
125.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
153.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
受限制所生之損失因由該主管機關．該主管機關是誰呢．就是森林法限制了我們．水土保持法限制了我們的土地．我們只能造林．造林之後又不能砍伐拿去賣．包括棲計劃法、國土保安用地等等．所以過去都．一開始的條文是由行政院來編列預算的． |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
154.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
176.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
後來被修正為由原民會．事上應該要依原基法．由各該主管機關來去編列預算。．今年爭取的進法補償的一程真的是很艱辛．沒想到都還要表決．而且．所有原住民的立委都有提案． |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
177.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
202.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
而且兩位民進黨的立委都有很多民進黨的立委,像吳立法的有15位的民進黨立委聯署,陳委員的有19位的民進黨立委聯署,所以如果加上國民黨民眾黨無黨籍,差不多超過90位的立委支持,結果還要表決, |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
204.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
221.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這表決的結果這些人也有連署的,原來連署吳委員跟陳委員的都投反對票。 形同測案一樣啊。 所以這個部分是需要去檢視的。 重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
250.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
重點我們一直在關心的就是我也在一再的跟行政院主席總處﹖包括延民會講的就是114年度如期實施而現在就要開始編列預算而且要編列額度外的新增預算。 院長這個不是延民會可以決定的。 院長是不是可以額度外新增預算。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
252.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
260.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
報告委員我現在在思考的是依照原民會今年的預算明年的概算他的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
261.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
287.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們用今年的預算跟明年概算來看它的規模現在用26億再加26億就是增加3萬元的補助用40%來執行單一政策之後對於所有將近60萬的原住民族朋友我們有什麼方式來普遍照顧他的權益目前我認為看起來是相當的困難現在預算的規模來看那預算會不會膨脹到多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
291.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
319.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個現在我無法來表示但是一個單一個部會的預算規模應該就是在現在概算的這個額定理和額度裡面的所以依照目前看起來未來只用在單一政策用百分之四十一個部會的預算再加上他的法定支出只剩下大概十多趴的預算百分之十幾的預算會用在全體的元族民族身上這個我現在是很傷腦筋的院長不必傷腦筋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
320.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
334.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
就是法律義務,這是最簡單的。 30年國務院法律義務之處。 然後我剛有講了研究法21條﹖他不是應該只有研民會來編列﹖包括農業部﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
361.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
甚至內政部都應該要編列。 這一個前提是我認為每一個部會都應該廣泛的照顧所有的政策。 單一政策用40%預算的這樣的例子前所未有真的是很傷腦筋。 這個法律不是新訂的。 但是比例的原則要顧及。 你要比例的話你就要以鄭文燦副院長當時的比例。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
365.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
386.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個我們卓院長你的施政方針口頭報告在5月31號提出來的一憲法法庭判決競速完成原住民身份法的修法我要特別跟院長做一個非常審慎而且非常嚴肅的來去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
390.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
416.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
一百一十一年十月二十八號現判制第十七號他現法判決有兩個途徑一個途徑就是剛才你的口頭施政方針報告裡面所提的修正原住民身份法另外一個途徑是認定特別法這個是必須我以下來跟讓這個院長能夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
419.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
444.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
原住民族與平埔族群原來就互不隸屬了從清朝到日本到中華民國政府都是用首藩從過去的首藩、生藩、高砂族這個平埔族群都是這樣不同的法律不同的管理好,我們讓這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
449.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
475.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
省省的評估希望能夠參考我的意見。 行政院在106年18月18號就提出了原住民身份法的修正案就是針對平埔族他特別在原住民身份法修正案我先跟院長報告原住民身份法是在陳水扁總統任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
477.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
493.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
（6月21日（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月21日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。（6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
503.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
515.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個在106年9月22日送到立法院之後,立法院在106年10月11日、12月20日、12月21日、107年12月24日完成審查。 完成審查了。但是呢,從107年12月24日一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
528.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
556.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第九屆的立法院109年1月31日一年多的時間基於絕對多數的民進黨立委在立法院沒有把他列入在立法院的院會我們也沒有反對但是沒有讓他三讀通過為什麼呢?知識體大真的是知識體大 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
558.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
584.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
本席也把這一段包括前面我講的在憲法法庭判決之前我也寫了信每一個大法官我都寄給他們讓他們了解知識體大所以才會有後來我的判斷大法官沒有告訴我我的判斷所以後來他們才會說可以修原住民身份法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
585.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
611.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
或者是令定專法。（6月25日（令定專法是有它的一個（6月25日（要去審慎的一個（6月25日（評估的地方。（6月25日（所以因為時間的關係關係（6月25日（我所謂的時間（6月25日（憲法（憲法法庭所定的一個時間3年（6月25日（到明年就3年了（6月25日（所以要請嚴明會（6月25日（要請行政院（6月25日（加速的來擬定（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
613.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
636.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我的建議是平埔族身份法,如果按照整個憲法的判決的條文內容各方面,它的理由各方面的話,應該是制定平埔族身份法是最恰當的,而且它的權利義務是另於法律定制。 院長可以朝這個方向嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
638.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
645.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報告委員現在我們在程序過去的程序下來就是針對原住民身份法 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
648.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
675.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
請原民會繼續再跟各界做更多的溝通那麼也希望他能夠具體的有一個期限能夠拿出一些溝通之後對於這個修法的方向那目前的進度在這裡那至於說已經進行了什麼樣的溝通相信要由原民會來跟委員來報告一下那個這樣齁時間的關係我的建議啦我的建議就是趕快炒你炒 原民會趕快炒你炒案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
676.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
705.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後跟各界溝通希望在今年現在是6月希望在今年的10月或11月能夠送到行政院讓給行政院一些空間時間來討論然後希望能夠在今年年底以前送到立法院為什麼呢因為明年只有半年的時間了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
706.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
735.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
五月底以前必須三讀通過才能夠符合憲法法庭的一個時間。好,謝謝委員的指教,我們會照這樣的進度,我們現在也在跟專家寫者,我們現在在研究。好,加油。好,院長的施政方針口頭報告在5月31日,裡面也提到政府也將落實原住民族基本法,背立原住民族自治的推動。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
737.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
766.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
書面報告也提到建全原住民族土地法制（維護原住民族土地權益。（我要特別跟院長做詳細的說明。（中華民國憲法徵修條文第10條第12項（規定國家應依民族意願保障原住民族之地位及政治參與（並對其交易文化很多。（我們就談土地（土地（然後其辦法另於法律定制。（ |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
768.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
783.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現在原住民族基本法就是根據憲法徵修條文第10條第12項來制定的。94年2月5日公布施行。這裡面特別授權給行政院院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
785.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
814.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
行政院為審議協調本法相關事務應設置推動委員會由行政院院長召集之這是非常重要的一個條文但是過去沒有善用這個條文我當副主委的時候常務副主委的時候都有善用這個條文把案子送給當時的院長去討論去通過推動我們原住民主基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
815.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
841.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
自定的法律。．好,這個我就舉例子．嚴紀法推動會第11次會議．111年8月28日．這個議程談什麼．南島民主論壇推動情形報告．只要報告事項．而且跟嚴紀法毫無關係．沒有．到底哪些法律還沒有．還沒有．還沒有自定．為什麼．應該要做好好討論． |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
843.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
871.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
在112年9月13日也是一樣一個報告事項長期照顧這個跟這個延期法什麼關係類似像這樣的好我現在這個讓院長包括各部會能夠了解一下1722年清朝康熙61年劃赦藩界大清律令法律哦清國的清朝的法律大清律令 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
872.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
899.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
明月借,人民是誰?清朝的人民。明月借入深藩地,勢同出道入關塞。清朝的時候的臺灣地圖,從中國大陸看臺灣。好,牡丹社事件之前,日本為了要攻打牡丹社,他就說深藩地是無主之地,深藩地不是清朝的土地,他就打了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
901.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
902.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好,日本敗戰回到日本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
931.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
954.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
有沒有把土地帶回去日本沒有還在臺灣但是呢臺灣省政府在36年定了一個臺灣省土地全力清理辦法特別規定今前臺灣總督府依據土地調查及領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
957.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
982.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
不清理之結果﹖收歸公有之土地蓋不發還。﹖這是臺灣省政府1947年﹖民國上市紀錄﹖這個臺灣總督府當時收歸官有的土地蓋不發還。﹖所以就繼續就變成國有土地了。﹖臺灣省山地保留地省政府定的民國49年﹖化設了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
987.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1011.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
三地保留地24萬公頃。（7、6年起（因為沈議員（因為立法委員的建議（所以臺灣省政府根據行政規則（到現在還是用一個要點計畫（增化編原住民保留地（然後這個原住民保留地管理辦法（後來提升為中央的法規（ |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1014.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1041.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
原住民族中華民國的總統陳水扁總統在民國91年10月19號跟原住民族簽訂了協定這個協定就是條約為什麼呢依照條約締結法的規定條約協定就是條約的名稱當然我們還是回到法律我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1044.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1072.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
陳水扁總統的條約應該去落實。﹐原住民族基本法20條明定。﹐政府承認原住民族土地及自然資源的權利。﹐原住民族或原住民所有使用之土地、海域﹐其回覆、其得處分、計劃、管理及利用等事項,另以法律定之。﹐所以陳水扁總統任內開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1074.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1093.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
也就是本席擔任副主委的時候,朝你研究民主土地及海域法。本席召開跨部會的會議,開了10次,10次。 然後送到行政院。 我們當時的蘇貞昌院長不是交給負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1095.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1123.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
嚴明會業務的林旺毅政委是交給誰呢?他考量說不要影響到公共政策公共所謂的公共工程我的判斷交給當時的政務委員行政院公共工程委員會的吳哲成政務委員來負責這個審議這個審查這個原住民族土地及海域法本席親自 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1124.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1152.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
去跟他做檢報。 檢報完之後,我們吳哲成政委開了三天三夜。 當然每一天都是隔了一個禮拜,隔了一個禮拜。 然後審查做了一個決定。 早上送到院會,把原住民族土地及海域法 行政院院會通過送到立法院。 很可惜送到立法院的時候已經借期不聯繫了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1153.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1181.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以就沒有審議。然後馬英九總統任內也送了兩次也都是一樣時間都是太晚了好蔡總統這個105年8月1號向原住民族道歉並且承諾會加快將原住民族自治法及原住民族土地夾黑法送請立法院審議但是這兩個法例這八年來都沒有送我們是非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1182.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1201.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我要特別跟院長還有各部會來報告說明我們從這個資料面積就可以知道不要擔心,原住民族很寬宏的原住民保留地剛剛講24萬公頃經過增化編之後現在是26萬多公頃維持公有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1214.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1230.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
48.66%仍然維持公有的原住民保育地,還是各部會去管理的、去使用的,還維持48.66%,施有的已經給原住民所有錢的51.34%,原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1236.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1261.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
原住民我自己用夠了就好了。 你政府機關你要用沒關係。 因為要做什麼使用沒關係。 所以不要擔心有了土海法是不是全台灣就不見了。 不會。 我要講這個數字就要讓院長跟各部會尤其是人民會 你好好地說明這個數字數據很多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1265.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1284.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
傳統文明已經化身了也身安無事啊。．所以讓院長這個讀法案法希望能夠以陳水扁總統當時所提出來的非常審慎所審議的為基礎。．你們可不可以再討論趕快送到立法院可以嗎?． |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1292.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1320.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
報告委員,我相信委員也清楚,這個土愛法涉及的層面範圍非常的廣泛,所以才會數次在立法院裡面進進出出。但是據我所知,他還沒有真正進入到實質的討論,都是一個程序上的問題。那我想,園民會應該有一個新的想法,或是在廣收各界的意見之後,目前他有沒有更積極的態度,請園民會來報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1323.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1352.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因為這個跟我們還是要重啟這個﹖我們還要再徵刑我們的這個地方政府。﹖因為剛上任,院長剛上任﹖我的建議就是說以陳水扁總統任內﹖第一個我開了十幾次會議﹖第二吳哲成政委開了三天三夜,早起各部會喔﹖然後送到行政院會所審議出來的﹖所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1352.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1380.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
以這個做基礎．在很快的把它提送到行政院。．我的建議是這樣。．好,在下委員請教,謝謝。．好,研究法第4條．要實行原住民族自治。．好,陳水扁總統任內．這個提了92年跟96年．提了兩次原住民族自治7法．它是一個程式性的一個立法．當時． |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1382.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1389.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
這個原住民的立委是不贊同因為他每一個每一組都要另外制定提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1390.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1415.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
自治法送到立法院,這是違反自治制度的一個立法例,所以就沒有通過,沒有審查了。（6月21日（9月29日（10月8日提了研究民主自治法（103年12月18日又提了一個研究民主自治暫行條例。（內政委員會針對馬總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1419.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1429.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
第一次提的,召開了三次的一個審查,很可惜沒有完成三讀。 然後後來104年又提了這個暫省條例, |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1434.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1453.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
本席已經開始當立委了一百零四年已經最後一八屆的最後一年最後一年我們經過很多次的協商討論把它改為原住民主自治推動條例就我一個老公務員來講或是考量到整個各縣市的狀況而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1456.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1483.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
是可以參考這個我們立法院各黨團所討論的這個原住民自治制推動條例這個回去去參考本席的建議不要再花很多錢那個院長你看一下這個這張表嚴明會從105年對原住民自治制的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1485.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1512.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
一直到今年花了真的是非常非常多錢總共加起來3639萬8千結果這8年連送立法院一個草案都沒有所以這個部分真的是已經過去有經驗了本席當任這個陳水扁總統我還是處長的時候我們草擬草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1514.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1540.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
各族群各縣市都討論過所以這個部分不要再花那麼多的一個經費這個我的建議就是說就是參考這個陳水扁總統的草案馬英九總統時代的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1541.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1562.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
加上原住民立法委員．在立法院所．剛才所講的這個．原住民組自治推動條例．這三個．來去．在座審慎的去討論．能夠提出行政院的一個自治法的草案。 院長可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1564.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1585.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
報告委員,這個剛剛那個有類似的情況也是在立法院裡面經過很多次的進進出出。﹖這半年來沒有了。﹖對,但是因為這個直接牽涉到現在地方政府很多行政權的權限、行政權的劃分還有這個地方參政權等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1585.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1585.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我再補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1611.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1636.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個原住民族自治推動條例馬英九時代這個部分當時孫大川主委參考了姚家文前院長的一個建議類似像國家公園這樣一個區域所以不影響到現行的地方自治 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1636.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1637.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
部長請退席 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1666.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1688.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
零四零三地震的重建,這個我曾﹖ 院長也許太忙,我曾經拿一封信給你,所以這個是一定要往這方向去進行,重建,你們這個當然院長還沒有上任之前, 行政院所提的一個方案, |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1690.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1714.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
重建、重構貸款最高350萬這個利息補貼。 修繕是150萬利息補貼。 我要特別提到當然現在完全交給內政部其實是我認為是有是不足以解決這個問題。 一定要其他的部會來協助。 92125年前92125年前他訂了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1720.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1732.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
重建家園貸款信用保證業務處理要點。（6月25日（所以這個就會包含銀行的參與怎麼樣去處理。（6月25日（所以當時350萬到150萬利息補貼。（6月25日（150萬以下是免息。（6月25日（ |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1745.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1772.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
二十五年前是這樣以當時的物價指數利率各方面所以現在的情況我們看這個當初就訂了然後後來修正都是一樣都是會讓他更好都是二十五年前的一個相關的這些處理要點所以我的建議一定要去解決這個問題所以要請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1775.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1801.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
能夠指派政務委員、召集內政部﹑財政部﹑甚至經濟部相關的部會來去好好地討論﹑這樣的話才會能夠真正解決零四、零三地震重建或是重構這樣的一個方向好不好﹖可以嗎﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1802.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1828.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
報告委員整個0403的重建不僅是我本人來擔任這個小組的召集人我們會請工程會曾經的主委能統合因為很多牽涉他相關的業務也有跨部會的那八萬內政部等等都會在你針對這些類似的問題做一個最終的處理那現在已經有部分已經在處理當中了我知道因為現在這個正在那個嘛但是要重建或是要重構 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1830.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1830.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好,謝謝政委員 |