| IVOD_ID |
154126 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154126 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-20T11:55:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-20T12:06:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:07 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3ceaf6abec8b4a6dbdcf8ee07e3692f29dd1cafa7fa6f271b25c70cba1341edec219c298096853c25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃健豪 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:55:43 - 12:06:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。） |
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好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長來請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.964 |
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黃委員好院長好院長今年是本席覺得國會改革我認為是這個國會監督法國會正常化我稱為是國會監督正常化的一個歷史的機遇因為這是單一選區兩票之十之後國會首次真的三黨不過半我坦白說如果今年大選結果是國民黨完全執政那這個國會改革法案一定推不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.991 |
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61.027 |
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同理,如果今年又再度是民進黨完全執政,國會改革法案我想還是會推不動。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.031 |
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91.016 |
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我想國會改革這個法案過去八年寫不出來一定不是因為太難的寫不出來我想我們聽講從這個院長部長很多的幕僚大家都是法律系專業真正寫不出來的原因只是純粹因為我想沒有人沒有行政權會希望把權力交出去這是我本席這個開場那院長首先想請教幾個問題啊院長就請直覺回答就好這不是陷阱題啊我不會挖陷阱給你跳啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
91.716 |
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103.74 |
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你認為說這個立法院舉手表達意見有沒有效力?舉手表達意見有沒有表達到意思的意見?可以舉手表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.281 |
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127.539 |
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那你認為說這個我們在首長官員在立法院詢答在自我主觀上可不可以來說謊欺騙當然不可以不可以那如果官員有說謊刻意隱瞞事實算不算一種藐視國會的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.568 |
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146.345 |
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第一我跟國人都不會容忍再來他會自己負起政治責任那嚴重的話我們會做政治的處分好 謝謝院長院長我們看一下我們今天的總統賴清德總統在98年當立法委員的時候他曾經針對人事審查的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.287 |
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173.746 |
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來問說請大家舉手表達自己的意見因為院長你這兩天都經常要求官員不要舉手表達意見因為舉手表達好像沒有記錄但在這個98年的內政司法法制聯席的委員會裡面當時立法委員賴清德要求大家也透過舉手的方式來表達說自己有沒有被相關的機關、服務機關懲處過那當時所有人都舉手說這個沒有沒有的人都舉手了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
174.722 |
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201.087 |
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後來賴委員清德發現其中有一個紀正然先生曾經被處罰過他突然說我想起來了立法委員耐心點出來說我想起來了好像是兩小過現在記不清楚但是賴委員說你被記過被處罰的事實接下來委員又講既然有這個事實你在審查時就不應該欺騙委員這個非常嚴重藐視我們立法院要怎麼處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我回顧這個歷史我只要跟院長報告今天推動這個國會改革法案一個契機跟一個源頭每一個當過民意代表當過立法委員當過國會議員在立法院裡面有時候也經常會遇到這樣子的問題就是官員我當然不確定他是刻意的說謊還是刻意隱瞞事實還是真的不小心忘記了但在當年這個時空背景之下現在的總統賴清德當時的情緒上也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
237.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
實務上也好他也覺得官員不應該說謊藐視國會對吧院長這個情景如果是照歷史的紀錄這個情景是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.242 |
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266.289 |
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是,所以的確嘛,所以當時的這個賴清德現在的總統也認為說不應該去藐視國會。好,那再來我們看到我們時任現在的副院長,我想今天很多非常多委員舉例啦。當時立法委員鄭麗君,現在的副院長,她也講過,讓國會的職權能夠真正的代表人民,要把調查權、聽證權還給國會,讓國會不要像拔了牙的老虎一樣,沒有辦法監督制衡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
266.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
282.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他的問題是說現在的問題是說國會要積極行使自己的權利勇敢行使權利台灣從修憲到現在國會沒有這個行使監督制衡的權利是因為多數黨是國民黨國民黨不願意行使憲政體制下的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
283.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果再用這個格格統一權這樣一個不對人民負責的國會獨自權能夠統一出一個人民滿意的執政領袖嗎?所以先透過這屆國會讓多數黨展現為民意負責的態度展現監督制衡的能力再來討論這個憲政體制的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
300.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
326.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
院長你對於副院長當年當立法委的這段話有什麼感想這段話能明顯的看出對國會更有效率立法品質更好的期待但是要經過合憲合法的程序達到這個目的裡面也提到聽證權、調查權吧有好再來讓我們進入今天的這個主題所以院長你也支持立法院有聽證權、調查權但是你有其他單書是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
327.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
338.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不是我有但書,是憲法585號有他明確的規定。甚至585我待會跟院長來討論,那我們先講,請問一下這個大的概念,院長是否支持立法院應該有聽證權跟調查權? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
341.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
361.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
如果在合憲合法的設計底下能夠讓委員來享有這樣的權利我認為是一種進步的展現但合憲合法的前提繼續牢牢的進駐那當然這個是立法院的問題那接下來我要談到是民眾很恐慌的部分我想因為在這個覆議案裡面裡面有提到說無差別的來調查人民 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
362.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
363.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
家庭主婦都可能是社會上關係之人那我要哪一條 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
392.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
民進黨曾經發布一個圖片來講說這個我們可以依照立運職權行使法叫台積電聯發科的營業秘密交出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
419.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
院長,你覺得我們要依照哪一個法律,要求台積電跟聯發可以把營業秘密交出來?一樣,針對法人也是要調查、調閱跟聽證,法人都是對象之一。這個社會上是確實有疑慮的,真的是的。因為我們的高科技業對自己的營業機密都是非常的保守謹慎。當然,這個我也認同,營業機密絕對是不能隨便交出來的,也不能交出來啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
445.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
468.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那院長這個剛剛兩個通過兩個案例一個是一般的民間人士所謂的所謂家庭主婦一個是所謂的知名企業那我們回到立院職權行使法本身院長你知不知道立院職權行使法怎麼來的我們今天討論的你今天覆議的這個法律叫立院職權行使法嘛那立院職權行使法怎麼來的就是在大院審查產生出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
470.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
他依據什麼來的?整個法律?整部法律?我想立法院職權行使法整部法律是依照所謂的立法院組織法訂定嘛那立法院組織法怎麼來的?立法院組織法是依據憲法76條對於一個立委的職權來訂定立法院組織法再訂定立法院職權行使法那立法院職權行使法裡面既然它是依據憲法而來憲法對於立法委的職權它就是明定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
493.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
是針對什麼法律案、運輸案、戒嚴案、大肆案等等等等還有國家其他重要事項等職權所以整部立院職權行使法它有一個核心問題啊核心價值它能夠行使職權立法委員能夠行使所謂的職權它必須依照立院職權行使法立院職權行使法是依據憲法賦予立法委員權利它是國家重大議案那 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
515.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
中華民國刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
533.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
537.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以在同樣的職權行使法裡面我再一次的強調接受詢問的時候提供證言或是文件資料表達意見的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
581.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
調查的範圍擴張到相對議案或與立法委員職權相關事項。他已經很顯然像我剛提到的便利商店便利商店營運這件事情到底要怎麼樣跟立法委員職權扯上關係我很好奇因為你今天不一樣所以這個條文這樣寫是矛盾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
582.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有矛盾啊,因為你首先第一件事情你要先依據立院職權行使法來行使職權嘛那這個便利商店怎麼執行這件事情跟立院職權就毫無關聯性這是第一點那第二點在於這次的立院職權行使法我想很多官員跟委員的辯論裡面也提到幾個法例包含46之2到包含50之1、59之5甚至45條我想對於立法委員在這個行使聽證跟調查的時候都本來就已經限制了相關權利啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
610.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在法律條文裡面本來就已經要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
659.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好謝謝黃委員謝謝卓院長報告全院委員會上午質詢詢答 |