| IVOD_ID |
154109 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154109 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-19T16:20:19+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-19T16:31:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:50 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3367213ea81ee14220169e64e0d7a3ccc8204f6a4417db433867d048431dc735db89229dbbe34e855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張智倫 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:20:19 - 16:31:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主席好 各位委員 各位官員 大家午安 大家好先跟院長報告 因為我今天身體有點不適 所以有點失聲所以等一下在詢問的時候 可能聲音會有時候高高低低的請院長允許我還是繼續來做質詢好 那我們是不是請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
43.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
張委員好 委員多保重好 謝謝院長第一次見到院長很榮幸看到院長也很覺得說第一次見面用這樣的形式跟你見到面首先要對你表示肯定因為非常辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
85.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個禮拜二、三、四、五每天都要坐在、 站在這邊接受質詢。這個馬拉松希望你可以保重身體。不過今天主要講的還是國會改革的這個討論。首先還是要跟院長分享跟院長說明這個賴清德總統自從當了總統以後他是第一位沒有跟這個在野黨的主席來去做溝通的院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
110.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
所以大家都知道蔡英文執政八年我們都擔心完全執政完全腐敗那絕對的權力也是絕對的腐敗所以我們認為國會改革非常重要尤其國會改革無法裡面有關於這個調查權跟聽證權的部分我們認為相當的重要所以當然院長你可以非常清楚在5月17號四次的院會裡面這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
135.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
開了四次的院會第一天在立法院的時候國民黨黨團我們大家群起為了要維護議事的和諧我們保護這個議事的和諧保護韓院長保護我們敬愛的這個周萬來秘書長那也看到了這個民進黨的委員群起而攻所以不僅我們辛苦的韓院長在第一次發聲有院長有立法院院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
136.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
164.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
被這個在立法院的時候被限制在房間裡面不能出來也看到第一次我們有行政人員我們的行政州外的秘書長被搶奪文件然後被進行這個攻擊的狀況後來還在冰敷我相信也是國人所不知道的那我也跟院長卓院長報告其實國民黨如果你是國民黨的行政院長我相信你可能很難在這邊站著很輕鬆的來回答的質詢的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
165.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
190.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那可是我要跟院長報告其實國民黨就是理性務實以及團結的政黨所以這邊要跟院長請益就是說本席對於這個立法院的這個調查權跟聽證權非常的重視以及國人在過去蔡英文執政的時候不需要很多的弊案繼續延續到我們的這個賴清德尤其是院長你的執政任期 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
190.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
216.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以我們民眾非常要知道的是我們一直在關心的查口罩查快篩疫苗查雞蛋以及查光電那我看到我們的劉部長已經上了他應該知道我在問什麼我有默契所以我們要查的連最近在查數位身份證的時候我們都會發現有診測反黑的狀況所以我們是不是請我們的同仁播一下影片我現在院長有看過這個影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
240.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好,可以看到這15秒的影片這個數位身份證我簡單跟卓院長報告這個數位身份證是賴清德當時當院長的時候預算是將近42億然後後來在蘇貞昌院長的時候就決定停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
257.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
花了人民已經十三億的納稅錢那當然立法委員要行使這個我們在內政委員會有行使一個調閱小組在查資料的時候就發現有這一大本將近一天多月的這個都是黑畫面所以我要跟院長分享就是說其實我們都很認真努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
258.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為我個人我本身過去一直擔任會計師的工作,所以我特別帶了一個計算機啊,帶計算機去裡面,想不到你居然破我的工,我的計算機沒辦法對付我,全業都是黑的文件。所以請部長、院長可不可以跟我分享一下,看到這本黑的文件的時候,請問院長你自己本身是不是有嚇一跳? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
303.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
早上部長已經答覆過了,請部長再答覆一次是,我想張委員你也是調閱小組的成員在兩次的由高金昭委來主持的時候特別有提到有關招標文件跟合約書涉及商業機密部分可以塗黑遮蔽那你看到你所謂不曉得有什麼管道出來因為按照立法委員來講職權也是調閱人員不應該隨便公佈這些資料你可以看得出來那個不是公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
304.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
327.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個就是服務建議書那所謂的服務建議書就是可能你很在乎的包括裡面的晶片或是服務建議那就是涉及商業機密那也就是高津召委所提到的部分所以呢我們在內政部或是工程或是行政院應該提供的內部的公文資料我們全部提供以內政部來講我們提供了87份五大卷的文件這些都全部提供了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
328.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
351.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以非常清楚的跟各位報告我們是依據這個立法院裡面在成立這個調閱小組或者是我們的資訊公開法還有各支法所提供的資料那您再給我30秒鐘那有關於這個這是中央印製廠跟相關的服務建議書的廠商他們所提的服務建議書那裡面全部有遮蔽的部分到後來有部分遮蔽我們也做了若干的改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
353.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
380.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
其實部長的解釋非常的詳細其實我在委員會有執行過其實這不是你的爛攤子其實你也不用護航的這麼嚴重有沒有護航我只是講真話這個的原因全部反黑的原因其實我認為就是執政執政過久的一個問題其實這裡面代表了幾個現象第一個可能就是廠商對行政院的不尊重第二個有可能是上級長官對立法院的不尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
381.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我也跟這個部長報告一下其實當時我們在開這個調查小組委員會的時候我不好意思講的是師長當時就已經跟我們講說裡面沒有機密文件所以那時候這裡面的文件沒有機密那現在部長知道現在這些資料又還原了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
402.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
428.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟委員報告我們的代理司長確實是提到我們內政部內部的公文是沒有機密所以我們全部提供但是在附件資料裡面的招標文件跟技術的服務建議書確實涉及到廠商他自己本身的商業機密的話我們也是依法有據請他來做這個處理所以我要跟部長報告為什麼會還原跟院長報告為什麼會還原就是民意的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
429.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
455.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是因為我們開了記者會了以後所以資料就還原了所以這就是我們認為最不能接受的點就是說如果我們今天沒有開記者會我們沒有把這東西訴諸於大眾的時候其實廠商他也不知道要怎麼做怎麼會有的文件一下子全部反黑又一下子全部都可以揭露出來這兩邊狀況是讓人民非常不能接受的所以我還要跟院長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
456.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
481.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
可是當有些廠商已經願意全部公佈資料的時候有一家公司目前還是不願意公佈資料而且內政部當時因為太早做決定了還發了一個公文說不能公佈資料就是國際顧問管理公司到現在還沒有公佈資料那一個我請問一個13頁的標案已經畫了13頁的標案13頁標案的廠商都願意全部公佈資料了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
482.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國據他是我們邀請的第三方公正單位只花了五百萬結果他說他的資料不公佈所以這就是我要跟這個院長跟部長講的有一些廠商公佈資料有一些廠商不公佈資料所以這樣才會讓廠商對行政官員不尊重而且讓辛苦的基層公務人員無所適從啊委員這樣你說明會讓民眾認為當天所有委員拿到的都是這一本 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
509.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
530.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其實其中一份的附件而已,它有五大卷,87份的資料,裡面規範的很多,它的技術上的規範不可以公開。然後有其他的頁面,是因為我們基層公務員覺得太辛苦,反黑一千多頁,太辛苦了,所以其他的文件,好幾大冊,全部只有提供目錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
531.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
553.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好所以這件事情我只是要希望說這個未來院長跟部長這個部分一定要好好來尊重這個立法院行使這個職權的這個權利。第二個我要來跟院長請議啊就是說我希望院長要保持行政中立我相信你一直保持行政中立可是我相信一直有人在干預你 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
553.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
575.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
沒有這一次國會改革行政院提出覆議的時候院會是禮拜四開會結果你們馬上火速把資料送給總統府請問為什麼總統府要拖到禮拜二上午核定下午才把資料送來立法院這是不是有很明顯的拖時間所以原本我們這覆議案投票其實禮拜三程序委員會結束禮拜五一讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
579.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
599.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員會報告完畢後其實昨天禮拜二就可以來表決了結果居然要等到這禮拜五結果我們這麼多的行政官員坐在這邊請問這些行政官員來為國會改革復議來背書是他們的選擇嗎所以我院長我先來幫你做一件事情我是請全所有的行政官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
601.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
614.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有一個端午的連假我請學友行政官員來問一下因為我覺得國會改革覆議行政院只有提來就兩個重點第一個就是認為違憲嘛違憲由大法官來去決定就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
614.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
639.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
第2個覺得行政院自愛難行現在在場這麼多的行政官員我是不是可以請院長幫忙是不是請行政院官員我來詢問一下民意基礎來詢問一下有沒有各位部會首長覺得如果國會改革聽證權跟調查權公布出來以後各位行政首長如果認為說會被我們聽證員調查權覺得內心會擔心害怕或是有疑慮有風險的可不可以舉個手 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
640.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
641.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
報告委員,對不起,我們不用舉手來回答問題,這樣留不下記錄。 |