| IVOD_ID |
154105 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154105 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-19T15:25:51+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-19T15:36:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3367213ea81ee1421cb8a8441d866c59c8204f6a4417db433867d048431dc735237fa65589b61d9c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
游顥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:25:51 - 15:36:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝謝謝委員長來有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長說明委員好卓院長好延續剛才今天許多委員所提到的一些內容那我相信沒有人可以超越憲法但是同樣的憲法以民為本也沒有人可以超越憲法保障的民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那其實像今天的許多的立委除了在探討這覆議案之外也有提到地方的財化法的部分那我相信其實現在各縣市確實是需要還合理的一個預算分配包括在南投縣農業縣也確實需要合理的一個經費的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
86.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
不一定是中央能夠全力把抓許多的政策要跟地方政府有一個充分的互動那才能夠讓中央地方一起發展那這樣子才是民主政治底下的一個福氣所以說在支持的這個財化法的部分也希望行政院能夠儘速提出版本還能夠照顧向南投農業線的一個財政需求還讓許多的政策不管是中央地方都能夠推行那 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
接著我們這個覆議案的這個探討之前,像今天本席聽到了一個蠻有趣的新聞,林佑昌他今天上節目的時候說,當家不要鬧事。那其實在這裡簡單講,他所提的是國民黨跟民眾黨當家不要鬧事,但是其實我們知道, |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是目前的執政是民進黨執政但是沒有關係因為像今天院長所接受的質詢各有兩樣情那有的說他貼上標籤叫破權那事實上我們是希望還權於民那因為其實許多委員在過去在委員會還探討的時候也都有提到包括顧立雄委員包括柯總召所提到的一些國會的改革法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
166.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
其實民進黨過去也曾有版本那針對立法院三讀法案依據中華民國憲法徹條文第三條第二項第二款的規定行政院對於立法院決議之法律案預算案條約案如有自愛難行得經總統核可的決議案送達行政院十日之內移請立法院還有來做覆議所以今天這個程序上是依法依慣例沒有錯但是在民主國家中遵循遊戲規則很重要否則就如同捍衛任務定義的名句中沒有規則就如同動物沒什麼兩樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
167.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
194.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以在進入與院長討論之前本席想要請院長回想在2018年您出來選民進黨黨主席的時候曾經有說過一段話阿不然你還記不記得你那時候說最近常聽到台灣有一個最大的黨叫做討厭民進黨所以您那時候認為民進黨欠台灣一個承諾而這個承諾就是要拿出對的政策讓人民過好的生活院長你那時候曾經講過這段話嗎?記得記得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
196.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
216.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那所以本席善意提醒院長在這個製造衝突沒有辦法做一個朝野來去對話和諧的過程中其實討厭民進黨的過程也同時在發生那今天附議的是國會改革法案中的立法院職權行使法及憲法徵求的表示國會罪章基本上這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
217.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
238.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在立法院進行民主檢出程序規則。行政院如果覺得自愛難行的話,那難道這個指的是什麼?官員不得說謊、不得隱匿事實、讓民眾有知的權利。不知道是哪一點侵犯了行政權、司法權以及監督權?難道學會說謊是必須要的政府官員學分嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
239.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
265.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那所以說,國會為什麼要改革?那今天來講,國會改革是大家的共識,是屬於還權於民。從過去民進黨的八年的完全執政,其實就可以清楚的知道,在這次新一屆的立法院,民進黨不在多數,但是很多時候啊,我們要比照一下是不是濁是精非啊。那在這裡本席也直接引述一下,勞動部長何佩珊,何部長, |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
266.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
278.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他也那時候在初期改造國會終結亂象研討會中曾經提到一段話他提到行政及立法的失衡現象在2008年馬英九執政時期因為國民黨坐擁多數更顯嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
民主監督機制以漸漸失靈,造成兩權雙輸,尤其在總統兼任黨主席,極容易造成憲政體制混亂。因限制此現象,套用過去民進黨的八年執政,毫無違和之處。行政院的覆議案並不是自愛難行,而是直接影響了賴清德民進黨黨主席的獨裁權力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
302.392 |
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331.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那所以這段話也部長在同樣的在今日來講也一樣可以讓賴清哲主席來做參考那舊教院長國會改革已經提了那麼多請問哪一個修法是擴權?又在現在的一個民主制度下除了立法院是人民職權的憲政機關代表人民代表民意來監督權力是應該還權於民難道院長你認為說人民不配擁有監督行政的權利嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
333.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
各位委員,我想您應該同意,現在執政黨是民主進步黨,但是在國會裡面當家的是國民黨,是韓國瑜院長。所以當家不鬧事,我們有共同的責任,共同的責任,議事要進行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
349.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
370.002 |
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但是在這裡還是要再跟院長提一下並沒有任何人會覺得在民主審查在立法院的一個過程之中有需要去動員群眾有需要在立法院裡面來進行這種衝突其實這個過程是可以好好的來溝通尤其是這些過去的主張也都是民進黨過去的立委曾經提出過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
372.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
其實沒有動員,但是民進黨有。這就是主觀上的認知。我剛剛委員一再詢問說哪些地方是自愛難行。早上到現在我已經將這個報告第二點到第六點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
411.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以說今天來講我直接就已經預設你會提的答案那所以說行政院原本提出的七大負議理由就是你今天不斷的所提的你過去也擔任過立法委員跟本席一樣我們都在交通委員會待過你對立法院的議事規則是相當的熟悉所以說在這些過程中其實都有經過程序上的討論那包括林明熙政委也提到這頁的條文他質疑有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
432.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是從立法院的委員會協商到二三讀,通通都有經過這個過程。那他一直強調沒有實質討論,但事實上這個討論來講是一直都持續的進行的。難道過去民進黨的這八年期間,完全執政的時候,每一個案子都有經過所謂的他林明熙所講的實質討論嗎?都有經過一二三讀嗎?都有經過委員會審查嗎?還有經過覆議期甚至一個月的冷凍期嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
466.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
委員的講法是一舉推翻了過去立法院所有的法案今天早上包括吳思耀委員包括鍾嘉斌委員也都說了很多我想委員如果可以去回頭看一下他們對於整個審查過程所舉出來的裡面不當的行為不當的審查的結果你就會知道我直接跟院長來直接跟你說這個不是推翻了過去的所有的審查而是在於說有些話不是事實有些話是說謊造謠這個清清楚楚我直接提了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
467.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
487.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
當初郭國文他為了幫助陳水扁的國務基要會出罪話他張昭偉十幾分鐘內就把條文送出以利益修惡法修法的時候一分鐘就送出那這個部分來講在林平清社會所提及現在行政院所主張的這些理由來講完全都可以適用包括民進黨政府把公投大選脫鉤變成兩年一次搞殘公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
488.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
包括在2021年12月把地方制度法為了柯建民總召的愛將林志堅找工作,足足合併。那這些血淋淋的例子都告訴了,民進黨是可以為所欲為,難道人民當家作主是錯,民進黨才是人民的主嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
504.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
519.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
委員有很多現場你是不在現場場景的在勞基法修改的過程我是在行政院的我們知道那個時候跟立法院有經過很多的過程我也是助理出身的所以這些過程我全程都有在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
545.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以說這些過程來講,弟弟在目,您也清楚。你用段落的一個指控這樣子,很公平的。只是十幾分鐘或一分鐘,通過是事實沒有錯吧。早上也有委員把整個審查的過程日期都標出來。我就詢問說,那後面那幾天,在這個議場裡面的行為,難道是一個好的行為嗎?難道是一個民主的程序嗎?其實院長你自己也清楚,這些過程通通都走過。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
546.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
560.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我舉過去的例子來講其實你非常的清楚那是那時候民進黨完全直升下那時候審查的法案好那再來講林明熙他提到了聽證調查的職權可以直接不以官員為例還有公司老闆老闆娘都可以直接來做調問 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
577.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
包括行政院的發言人陳思凱也說,還可以直接要求人來聽證,要經過主席同意,衝擊公司機密,以東拳辣椒醬來為例。這非常的扯,扯零,比扯零還扯。那立法院有言論免責權,難道行政官員說話都不用負責嗎?可以睜眼說瞎話嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
578.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
580.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
一段話我就認為是非常主觀的認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那我們之間應該有一套機制這套機制來認定誰是真正的事實那這個機制不是存在立法院我必須坦白講今天來講如果影驗命令法他們不清楚我可以送他們影驗命令法的書但是不要說民進黨政府不要說謊就造謠造謠不過就恐懼這是律師恐懼堅決抵抗五位改革監督是要打破綠色球衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
632.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好,謝謝游浩委員 |