| IVOD_ID |
154098 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154098 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-19T11:44:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-19T11:55:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3367213ea81ee1422afc04fdaae6f2bcc8204f6a4417db43b6ce992a2a96250d4d86489bec5fdf205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蔡易餘 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:44:42 - 11:55:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。） |
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接下來我們請登記第12位蔡易餘委員發言謝謝院長那我們是不是有請我們卓院長以及我們法務部我們部長再請卓院長說明再請法務部說明 |
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31.82 |
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49.078 |
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蔡委員好院長好院長我們今天在討論這個立法院然後這個國會擴權然後要把所謂調查權把它訂入這個法律我們這一部立法院的一個行為行使法裡面那有一個重點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.24 |
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國會的調查權,他有規定的,院長你應該很清楚嘛,因為你本身對於律師的一個專業,法律的一個專業,我相信很清楚,585號有講到國會調查權。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.226 |
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但是這個國會調查權他是為了因為在於說我們行使文件的一個調閱權在不足的地方然後必要時候得以傳喚相關政府人員或者是可以傳喚部分的民間人士然後來國會問然後縱使他問的時候如果有涉及到抗拒然後不去回答的然後他在罰款的一個範圍內他是可以去做行政的一個處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.546 |
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所以這是在585的解釋但是585這是上半段下半段有更多的有更多的一些文字的一個一個細載比方585後半段他講到有所謂行政特權欸 院長行政特權有哪些啊我想總統啦或者行政長官他有一些行政上的特權這個是受到一些保障的 |
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有受到保障嘛對不對所以說行政首長他可能對於干涉到行政的部門的有效運作有決定不予公開的權利那這個叫做行政特權那585號講得很清楚喔如果遇到行政特權那院長你幹嘛立法院侵害到你的行政特權的時候585號有講要怎麼做 |
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143.823 |
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所以就是要維護五院體制行政歸行政、立法歸立法、監察歸監察、司法歸監察對,一定會說答案啦五院體制,就是說如果今天立法院調查權和你的院長、你的裁量、你的行政特權太崩 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
161.172 |
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185.407 |
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這個時候,第一,大法官解釋講得很清楚,立法院跟其他國家機關在你行政的一合理的途徑,協商解決。協商解決啦,就是一定要跟我們的韓院長協商。啊,如果協商出來,要罵倒,要罵倒形成答案,這個時候要怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
186.992 |
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210.929 |
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吳鮑威號我們有說喔有司法機關審理解決有沒有有是吳鮑威號都講了這個好 那我們這一次國民黨跟民眾黨所訂的這一套的立法院的這個調查權有講到這些嗎有任何文字講到這些嗎沒有沒有嘛 他的調查權在47條嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
213.015 |
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239.91 |
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調查權第四十七條說調查委員會或調查專案小組會行使調查權得要求政府機關部隊法人團體社會上有關係之人物之人員與五日內提供資料然後以及可以傳喚他們來然後就是這個是四十七條是調閱文件那還有另外的就是傳喚人沒有講到萬一權力產生衝突的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.109 |
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265.269 |
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要怎麼來解決?這是不是一個問題?對,鄭義智解決是沒有去做這樣的一個處理,所以這個行使法對這樣是...是一個...如果這樣的這一部法律,他沒有處理...對,就違背了這個585的意旨嘛。所以就很清楚,是讓大家法律人啊,我們說什麼的,這裡都是法律人。一看而知,這個修法就違憲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
266.89 |
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288.007 |
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這個修法就是沒打整個585號他要上半段他只要擷取他要的部分要的部分585號有講到說有部分的調查權他就說喔好這個好這個我要權利我要義務我不要立法委員擴權要大家有管理負擔義務都不要他們只敢講585 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.744 |
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292.908 |
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而且585這部分是限那個調閱權他這個是把那個調查權進行他是把調閱權進行那調查權有沒有限制有沒有他的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.677 |
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311.543 |
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這個調查權是有限制的,585號解釋,還有那個325,還有729號解釋,就有這樣的,而且是限制調查權,並不是在調查權729號是講跟檢察官的一個文件的調閱嘛,325號更精彩咩,325號齁,現在國民黨齁,跟黃國昌都不敢講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
323.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
342.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
黃國昌把他用那個圖卡在那裡說什麼時候把人民會科與圖形事實上就是有科與圖形阿他們本來的法案是有的餒是我們在審理的過程引擎丟起來換一丟因為他怕看到外面清涼的人大家來這裡他們會怕所以他們才轉換我們先來討論325號解釋325號解釋他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
調查權應該是屬於監察院對不對縱使是監察院的調查權但是如果是國家機關獨立行使職權受憲法的保障第一個如司法機關審理案件所表示的法律見解第二個考試機關對於應考人員成績的評定 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
372.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
392.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
第三,監察委員的彈劾或糾正的判斷或訴訟案件在判決確定前的偵查作為,監察院對於行使調查權本受有限制,基於同一理由,立法院的調閱文件亦同受限制。有沒有這樣的文字?有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
393.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
414.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
連監察院的調查權都不可以侵害到行政特權或者是司法的一個專業的判斷這就是那個到我可以解釋就是要注意到其實那個調查權要注意權力分立的原則彼此要有彼此尊重憲法的權力分立嘛要有權力分立就是監察院的調查權一樣要有受到這些限制喔但是我們所訂出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
433.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們所訂出來的這個法案他說我們四十七條的調閱文件必要時還可以要求司法機關或監察機關就在偵查中的案件他們可以因序名理由並提供副本 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好,認證,我這樣說應該,這樣有違憲嗎?這大剌剌違憲的文字,這樣就法案,有一個是慕尼黑的博士,有一個康乃爾的博士,都捏出來了,都違憲到這樣,這樣要叫我們被誰要買單,叫我們一直說裡面有民進黨的條文,我們民進黨裡面他們又通過的條文都是那種無關緊要程序性的問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
467.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
478.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
關鍵的二十五條關鍵的四十七條關鍵的五十條之一關鍵的五十條之一到那些都是他們的版本這都是他們違憲的版本部長你說明一下給我整理一下思緒 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
486.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
508.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個內容的這個部分齁在整個一個一個調查權這形式他是把他列入到第八章齁這整個一個就是新增的一個條文就是完全違反了585號解釋的一個意旨一個意旨而且這違反到違反585跟325啦325那我們再來聊一下啦齁我剛才忽然間沒想到想不出來我忘記瞬間忘記 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們在講他們說你有保密義務嘛五十條也有規定保密義務所以涉及到國防跟外交這個屬於保密義務的部分如果你在行使調查權的時候政府機關我要說這個是屬於機密這個是屬於機密所以政府機關可以說這個我機密我拒絕回答拒絕回答勒要 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
538.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
556.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
要經過那個主席同意是不是而且還有那個裁法的一個問題還有裁法要主席同意啊主席不同意怎麼辦所以這部分就陷入一個兩難問題所以這個反而是會讓整個一個政府機關自來難行好那如果他拒絕回答我們可以馬上回到了對他的一個法則就是可以把他移送 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
559.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這一個公務人員為了守護國家機密他可能面對這一次所通過的藐視國會然後被判刑責公務員如果被判刑責會怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
613.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
會不會被剝奪公務員資格對就被剝奪了會被剝奪公務員資格他公務員就沒了我再講那如果立法委員在行使調查權的時候把這個機密講出來這部分在行使法並沒有規範他那個救責的機制他沒有救責嗎他只有說有保密的方式但是沒有調查人員這個保密的違反的話就沒有救責的機制對我存三十秒你給我說過了如果立法委員一說出來好縱使我們覺得很可惡你怎麼講出來我們要把他起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
615.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
635.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他在法院的時候還會講什麼?不好意思!我有言論免責權!這是憲法給我的權利!你不可以判我!這是我的言論免責權!你不可以判我!他就這樣說!縱使耶!他是在院外講沒有言論免責權!他被判刑!他不能像胡坤智這樣!一邊關一邊坐在外面! |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
639.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
640.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝蔡依 |