| IVOD_ID |
154096 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154096 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-19T11:22:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-19T11:33:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3367213ea81ee142662b811285ad4b8ec8204f6a4417db43b6ce992a2a96250dc97daf1775de64d05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
林宜瑾 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:22:14 - 11:33:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議（事由：審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。） |
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接下來,我們請登記第10號,林宜瑾委員發言。麻煩再請卓院長說明。 |
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林委員好院長好一萬七千九百四十一這是什麼樣的數字這是國家人權博物館去年根據現有的政治檔案研究從1945年到1992年所統計的政治受難者的數量實際上一萬七千九百四十一人就總人口數是少數中的少數但是我們絕對不可能因此說 |
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威權統治對人權的侵害99.9%的台灣人都沒有被影響到因為真正可怕的是你只要不合統治者的意統治者隨時可以透過政治手段對你侵害 |
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這種不確定性讓全臺灣的社會為此而噤聲也常常的自我思想審查我們回到這次的覆議案我們知道藍白擴權法案要求社會上有關係的人員 |
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117.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
有義務要提供文件資料、陣言、表達意見跟接受詢問。習任院在覆議函中有強調,究竟何謂社會上有關係的人員,文字定義相當模糊,有恣意調查人民違反比例原則的疑慮。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
立法院是有政治立場的所在有政治立場不是問題可是這是因為是民意機構有政治立場才能表達多元民意的需求但是有政治立場的地方極度不適合扮演客觀中立的法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以除非將調查聽證限縮在立法院職權範圍內否則即便受法的民眾跟官員少之又少但是這種政治掛帥的這個調查權的行使就會使民主大開倒車那就如同我一開始所提到的臺灣的政治受難者絕對不是一萬七千九百四十一人這個數字就可以草草被忽略的一百個人權是人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
185.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一個人的人權也是人權,就如圖童院長您曾說過的必須接觸每一個人,對於藍白擴權法案中這種可能、恣意的影響人民的權利的條文,我覺得想請教院長,您有何評價跟呼籲? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
187.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
當然陳錄委員所說的再少數的人受到不公不義的對待國家都應該去保護他而不是變本加厲的用各種方式讓他心生恐懼心生壓力雖然民主進步黨是現在中華民國台灣的執政黨站在立法院內是以韓國瑜院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
207.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
是,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我想沒有人反對國會改革陳如院長剛回答很多委員你也都這樣講那我們跟議場外很多參與青鳥行動的公民朋友一樣反對的是程序不正義跟立法倉促、粗糙而且事實上漏洞百出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
擴權惡法。那我想今天在這個巡討我有個請求就是想要呼籲立法院所有的同仁們我們團結一致讓我們重回委員會來逐條討論這個爭議的法條那除了修正這個文字的基本錯誤外我想對於反質詢跟藐視國會這樣的概念的構成要件不明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
292.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
以及這個絕而未易的程序不能得到解決我想除了這些一議都解決了國會改革才會是真的名副其實那根據行政院的覆議函政院這一次為什麼要提出覆議案有一個非常強烈的理由就是因為這一次藍白兩黨強推的這個拓全法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
293.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請院長簡單說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
310.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們說過在程序上他沒有經過實質的落實實質的討論所以出來的法案會變成我們在依法行政當中我們認為他是有瑕疵的這是一個第二個他對於憲法的認知大家雖然對憲法的學者很多但憲法規定已經在這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
329.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
總統在立法院集會的時候的到立法院來做國政報告這個的寫得很清楚但現在的規定把它變成一定要來而且是定期而且集會集黨這個顯然跟憲法的規定很不一樣所以法律有很多所謂的構成要件那在構成要件當中我們審視這裡所有的條文在相當多我剛剛在一開始報告的時候所唸的那麼多條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
377.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
實在是經過了很審慎的包括我們院內的法學專家以及社會上的公法學專家都提供了很多的意見這些意見再加上民眾更多的聲音讓我們覺得不是為了維護憲法而已不是為了官員的尊嚴而已為了每一個國人他都可能在這個法律構成要件不明確的情況底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
389.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
內容不明確比例原則不符合而且不具有法律正當性站在這裡都可能被侵害我們被每一個人都必須要真真正正的用內心來保護他 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
390.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
417.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝院長我想我們之所以會認為這一次擴權惡法欠缺法律的基本要件以外最核心的理由當然就是整個審議程序就誠如院長您所說的都不符合民主的原則那而且有重大的瑕疵但我們在想什麼叫做反質詢那國民黨立委吳周憲他對媒體提問他說立法完成之後就會做完整的交代那請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
439.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
吳宗憲交代了嗎?那吳宗憲當然沒有交代,可是後來改口,他說他指的是立法完成後會產生判決跟判例,那透過這些判決跟判例就可以回去解釋什麼叫做反質詢。那用白話文講的就是,我先判了再說,你先讓我罰罰看,你就知道以後怎麼樣才會被罰。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
459.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那這種立法的態度跟法律的素養實在是令人嘆為觀止就如同我舉例來講我們叫委員會我們在審議黃牛票的態樣跟定義我們就花了很多的精神跟體力去好好的討論因為我有定義清楚你可以去定義說什麼樣叫做賣黃牛票 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
460.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
林宜瑾議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
501.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我們再來看看最新的民調怎麼看這次的覆議案根據中華亞太基因交流協會15日公布的民調有高達61.4的民調支持覆議要求立法院要重新討論法案值得注意的是即便國民黨跟民眾黨的支持者也有大約4成人支持覆議 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
501.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
530.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那就連臺灣民意基金會前天公布的調查也有過半的民眾支持行政院的覆議另外這兩份的民調中我們都可以看見有超過半數的民眾不清楚法案的內容就有學者分析這是因為修法的過程太過倉促以至於很多民眾對於修法後的影響也不是了解所以我們大家都希望透過這一次的覆議可以更清楚知道修法的正義點在哪裡那院長想請教你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
531.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
551.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這些民調的顯示另外今天開始到週五的復議的投票日公民團體再度號召很多民眾在立法院外他們希望表達他們反對擴權惡法的訴求所以院長請問你有什麼要話要傳達給異場外的青年朋友們也要傳達給台灣各地的國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
554.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
579.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
對於正反雙方的群眾來表達聲音其實在這種天候底下我真的於心不忍如果我們在這裡可以合理公開的這樣討論讓它成為一個回到大院繼續可以重新審視機會的一個條文讓透過民主的程序共同來維護就可以不需要這樣子辛苦大家我過去到現在到今天我的心情是完全一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
580.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
林宜瑾議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
596.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
596.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
林宜瑾議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
618.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
619.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我相信每個委員都會勇敢的面對自己跟面對歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
654.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
654.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席 |