IVOD_ID |
154088 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/154088 |
日期 |
2024-06-19 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-1-1 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
1 |
會議資料.會次 |
1 |
會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2024-06-19T09:39:48+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2024-06-19T09:51:41+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:11:53 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3367213ea81ee14259fa03cfdbf29d40c8204f6a4417db433eeccacc55ca201b5f23dfb7261517ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
委員發言時間 |
09:39:48 - 09:51:41 |
會議時間 |
2024-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
第11屆第1會期第1次全院委員會會議(事由:審查「立法院職權行使法」修正部分條文、「中華民國刑法」增訂第五章之一章名及第一百四十一條之一條文等覆議案。) |
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接下來,我們請登記第二號黃國昌委員之選。再請左院長備選。 |
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黃委員好院長好覆議案的提出上一次是在十年之前這個是非常嚴肅的憲政問題只不過今天只有十分鐘我具體的要請教我非常的遺憾我們的行政院已經成為了假訊息散播的中心充斥著假訊息這是行政院所提出來的七大覆議原因 |
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藉由行政院的院會散播這個圖卡到臺灣每一個公民的手上。我要第一個請教卓院長的事情是你們說懷疑公務員虛偽陳述就可以刻意刑責請問目前所通過的法律有哪一個懷疑公務員虛偽陳述就可以刻意刑責?請說明 |
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法律案件、法律內容我請部長說明各位委員報告那個刑法第五章之一那個憑名藐視國會罪以及那個刑法141條之一的這個這次立法院通過的這些條文 |
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執行跟調查不一樣,執行也不是檢管辦案,也不是法官辦案。所以執行的範圍非常廣泛的,是包容萬象的,是不是跟我們先往那個執政追責是特定的犯罪事實? |
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部長,你要講話,院長要講話,我一定給你們時間啦,但請不要插嘴。我現在具體的問題是,你們說懷疑就可以科與刑責。我具體的請教部長嘛,檢察官懷疑官員虛偽陳述就會起訴嗎?這是起訴的門檻嗎?是嗎?起訴門檻適合犯罪嫌疑,說不定他就會起訴,但是,但是這一條的法案...好,第二個,法官或懷疑他虛偽陳述,就判他刑責嗎? |
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這個是我們法官在證據犯罪的標準嗎?來先停一下齁你們的圖卡是說懷疑新聞陳述就會科與刑責啊什麼叫科與刑責?那個判刑確定嘛檢察官會因為懷疑就起訴嗎?法官會因為懷疑就判刑確定嗎?來請教院長這個明顯就是違反了 |
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法律明確性的原則 |
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要在有代證事項的前提之下,代證事項為何?那這個代證事項有沒有虛偽陳述?是不是法官判的?是還是不是?是主觀認定的。是法官主觀認定的?所以按照院長您的說法,是立法院可以刑責還是法院可以刑責? |
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立法院不是司法機關所以我們才需要檢察官起訴才需要法院判刑嘛現在中華民國的法院有哪一個對於你剛所講的代證事實構成要件虛偽陳述是只要懷疑 |
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委員:黃國昌 |
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我已經回答了你的回答是什麼中華民國的法院因為懷疑就會科與刑責委員我們在講的是中華民國的立法院中華民國立法院不會科與刑責阿只有中華民國的法院會阿送去法院是但是這個懷疑送去法院就會科與刑責阿這個懷疑就是祖國的認定立法委員不是檢察官各位各位報告這會造成很大的寒蕊消夜所以起訴的不是立法委員起訴的是檢察官阿 |
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請訴的是檢察官啊檢察官會因為懷疑就起訴嗎來請教部長但是被追究被調查被偵辦的話這對觀念是一個很大的一個危害了對你可以這樣講但你不可以說只懷疑就可以行責嘛來我們來看一下施改國事會議你們那個時候對美國聯邦法不好意思我再講話你一定要插嘴嗎 |
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院長可不可以控制一下時間請暫停這樣子秩序沒有辦法進行院長你也可以看得出來時間暫停我都會給他們時間回答黃委員對不起時間暫停是我有請求委員讓我講一句話我有請求我不是直接的插話這是禮貌尊重沒有關係啦剛剛有直播 |
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你到底是插話還是有請求部長有沒有針對問題回答全國人民透過直播都看得到是不是可以請院長主持一下秩序時間暫停跟黃委員報告一下跟院長報告一下也跟所有的委員報告一下全院委員會所有的詢答用疑問疑答方式進行委員與官員共同使用詢答時間那麼委員詢問完畢之後再由官員來 |
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答覆因此請委員跟官員彼此互相尊重也請官員特別拜託不要有搶答的情況黃委員請繼續好謝謝院長來進一步請教斯卡國式法務部所提出的會議資料依照美國聯邦法18條USC1001條的規定在國會 |
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為虛偽陳述的時候除五年以下有期徒刑來請教一下院長或部長這樣子美國法的規範依照你們的標準有沒有違反法律明確性有沒有違反正當法律程序 |
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我現在在討論的是你的職權行使法裡面的文字違反法律明確性,不是在討論美國聯邦的法律啊! |
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因為他的法律構成要件跟我們寫在刑法一百四十一條之一就一模一樣嘛所以我才問你嘛依照你們行政院法務部不好意思不好意思院長這樣子我要怎麼質詢下去我問題都還沒有講完部長就要插嘴干擾我的質詢沒有關係啊我們都是法律人依法論法把事情講清楚就好了來 |
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這個構成要件依照部長您精湛的法學素養請教一下跟我們所通過的刑法一百四十四條之一哪裏不一樣請說明哪裏不一樣我們是五權憲法的國家所以你的意思是我國是五權憲法他們是三權分立所以針對現在有關於執委陳述可與刑罪的構成要件構成要件哪裏不一樣請說明 |
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470.991 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
法律要件不明確嗎?那我就問你! |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.464 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
493.99 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
美國法的規範跟我們刑法一百四十四條一百四十一條之一哪裏構成要件不一樣這麼簡單的問題都回答不出來喔 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
515.624 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.229 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在聯邦或邦的立法機關的調查委員會為虛偽陳述就涉及未經宣示的虛偽陳述而言是用一百五十三條一百五十三條的規範是什麼未經宣示的虛偽陳述三個月以上五年以下有期度性這個是德國新發展的規定來請教一家部長 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.329 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
554.068 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這樣的構成要件跟我們所通過的構成要件哪裡不一樣?請說明各位委員報告德國並沒有執行需要說要入罪的執行的內容它是根據執行顯示根據憲法徵修條文是三條一項第一款而來的來我們再看一下立法機關的調查委員會文書委陳述我現在在請教你的是構成要件哪裡不一樣嗎? |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.732 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.153 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你以為德國並沒有指詢當作入罪的一個理由而且德國是三權分立的不是我們五權分立的好 所以你今天的立論就是五權分立跟三權分立還有那個指詢德國並沒有指詢當作他入罪的一個理由大家心裡都有巴适來 我們接下來再看你說無限期審查人事同意權現行的條文有針對人事同意權的審查設上線嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.595 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
593.202 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有嗎?而且我的問題是我們現行條文有設上限嗎?我們現行的條文有沒有設上限?現在沒有設上限你也同意嗎? |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
604.347 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
624.012 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在的條文有沒有設上限嗎?沒有嘛!所以按照你的看法,現行的條文是不是也違憲?只要沒有設上限,就是無限期!只要沒有設上限,就是違憲!我在請教的是,這是不是我們新任行政院院長的 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
625.232 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
648.288 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
發言委員你為什麼不設上限呢?對嘛!所以你認為現行的條文也違憲嘛!來!為什麼不設上限?我們來看一下2008年6月的時候馬英九提名司法院院長、副院長、監察院院長、副院長整個審查的期限喔前後一個例行12天一個例經19天來請教教院長你認為符合民主程序嗎? |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.875 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
678.633 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
你認為這樣符不符合民主程序?當年監察院的委員的行使也是這樣子所以你認為符不符合民主程序?如果立法院、大院真的要設一個好的,可以好好的來討論,不要設上前、不要設下前。這樣子的審查有沒有符合民主程序?程序要完整整套。對,這樣的審查有沒有符合民主程序?剛剛委員拿德國、美國的。對不起,我現在用台灣的例子問你,你又不回答。來,我們來看一下當初的賴清德是怎麼講的。 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
679.69 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
681.832 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
人事同意權像趕鴨趕雞一樣趕,光憑一點資料就進行審查,這個要立委如何審查?一個月喔! |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
702.821 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.841 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
謝謝時間到 |