| IVOD_ID |
153648 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153648 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-05T12:53:39+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-05T13:02:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98c74dcd55d0db2191a6cabf0dc0d1a8b7b5dc6a9f8e8436d6929d091a91415b875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:53:39 - 13:02:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
1046 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（12時53分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，有請經濟部的郭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請郭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長你好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
郭部長智輝：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
賴委員士葆：看你今天一個早上下來，好像游刃有餘，我問你幾個簡短的問題。第一個，原來媒體報導說你身價超過100億，有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
郭部長智輝：我不知道他從哪裡得到我有身價100億。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
賴委員士葆：你自己講有沒有嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
郭部長智輝：沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
賴委員士葆：有點漏氣，大家把你捧得很高，大家對你期待很高，以為你有100億。我接著問你就是，但是不管你的身價有多少，即便沒有100億，幾十億都有啦，一定有嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
郭部長智輝：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
賴委員士葆：這麼有錢，你當經濟部長，你有沒有想過，我們一般的勞工三分之二領不到平均工資，平均工資大概不到四萬五，然後我們員工的薪資除以GDP，這是一個分配的問題，全世界先進國家都差不多50%，唯獨臺灣逐年下降，下降到43%，結果資本家──你應該算資本家吧？還沒來接任之前，你算資本家，是不是？請問你，你是資本家吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
郭部長智輝：資本家？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
郭部長智輝：我是有出資本經營公司啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
賴委員士葆：那就是資本家嘛。我們臺灣GDP賺的錢都被你們賺走了，基層的員工拿43%，你們拿很多很多錢，所以我就問你一個問題，你當經濟部長，怎麼樣讓企業幫助員工加薪，你告訴我。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
郭部長智輝：這個對我來講不是什麼太難的問題啦。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，你怎麼做呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我只要讓我所有的企業所做的工作是加值的工作，那它的人工的成本，相對比例之下，那一定是可以給員工加薪的。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
賴委員士葆：你現在當經濟部長了，等於是所有董事長的董事長，你管企業，基本上你應該有辦法，請你告訴我們，有什麼辦法讓他們給員工加薪？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
郭部長智輝：好，最快的方法就是「境內關外」的作法。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
賴委員士葆：境內關外？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
郭部長智輝：對。所謂境內關外的作法，就是利用一些稅制優惠，然後邀請國外…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
賴委員士葆：在裡面用免稅，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
郭部長智輝：對，用免稅的方法，然後擴大我的內需市場…… |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
賴委員士葆：那你跟財政部談過沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
郭部長智輝：我們就先提出來這樣的想法…… |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
賴委員士葆：境內關外？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
郭部長智輝：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
賴委員士葆：境內關外，那就是過去我們在馬英九時代執政的時候所談到的，經濟示範區這個概念，境內關外自由流動，零關稅、零障礙，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
郭部長智輝：不完全一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
賴委員士葆：我再問你一個具體的，我提案的，對將近150萬家的中小企業給員工加薪，現在是130，我提案給它乘以兩倍、200%的費用，你同意嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
郭部長智輝：我儘量來讓所有的薪資都能夠提升到委員剛才所指導的這樣的方向。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
賴委員士葆：境內關外的意思是要每一個地區都要劃境內關外，港口旁邊、機場旁邊都要劃，是這個意思喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
郭部長智輝：我們的境內關外是對某一些業者來講，給他一些virtual（虛擬）的…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
賴委員士葆：virtual？不是一個area、不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
郭部長智輝：是虛擬的。他在他原來的地方從事所謂價值…… |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，境內關外可以加薪，今天一個很重要的事情。第二個請問，你有沒有跟黃仁勳見過面？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
郭部長智輝：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
郭部長智輝：前幾天。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
賴委員士葆：吃飯的時候，怎麼沒有找你？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
郭部長智輝：吃飯找我？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
郭部長智輝：沒有。我大概因為在減肥，所以不吃宵夜。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
賴委員士葆：你不喜歡吃臺灣的夜市，是嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
郭部長智輝：我喜歡臺灣夜市，但是不喜歡跟大家一起逛夜市。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以他逛夜市也沒邀請你嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
郭部長智輝：我不是他的業者，所以他不會邀請我。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
賴委員士葆：好。我們一般對你的期待是高的，可是我感覺你接了部長這段時間你在變，4月18號你說核電如果要延役須有全民共識，這句話還有效嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
郭部長智輝：一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，請看下一頁，現在最新的一個民調「清潔能源公共公眾態度」（PACE）的民調出爐，83%的臺灣人支持核電，2018年「以核養綠」的公投，就是用核電來養綠電，等到成熟了，核電再退役，這個公投通過了，這就是全民共識。結果你在5天以前，核三廠你說要當做備用電力，全世界沒有一個經濟部長或者一個大專家說核電居然是備用、備援的。核電當然是基載用電，怎麼會變成是備用呢？怎麼你越來越退縮，原來說全民有共識我就用核電，後來一直退縮，我的感覺，部長，你原來是生意人，因為大家知道你頭腦清楚、會賺錢，對你期待很高，而且有個期待是希望你不要變成政客，但你愈來愈像政客喔！完全就跟著民進黨的非核家園走了。你現在不敢談核電了！你不敢談核電了，居然說AI用電量很高，這時候要開始用光電！難道要在臺灣蓋滿陽光電板？你說要用光電，就是不談核電。對於核電，你原來是不排斥的，怎麼現在排斥了呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，委員可能有點誤會啦！核能不是不能當基載，而是我在講…… |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
賴委員士葆：核能當然是基載啊！在全世界都是基載啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
郭部長智輝：對啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
賴委員士葆：怎麼會是備用呢？怎麼到了你這裡變成備用呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
郭部長智輝：備用是因為我將它……它因為受到我們現在法令的規定必須降載，然後出來再檢查，檢查完以後再上來。無論會不會上來，我認為都不能夠把它當做一定要做的基載工作。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
賴委員士葆：因為我時間到了，我就長話短說。你回答前面的委員時說蓋新的電廠要六年時間，對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
郭部長智輝：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
賴委員士葆：既然要六年時間，那就是用天然氣，但又是有CO2的，全世界現在是減碳不減核啊！對於現在有的核三廠，我已經替你把法律都列好了，不需要五年申請，只要這項修法過了，可以馬上申請，若核安委員會也通過，大概兩年不到就過了、就可以延役啊！原本你說只要有共識就用核電，後來一直退縮，現在什麼都沒有！ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個部分是這樣的：如果沒有把這個法解掉的話，我會這樣做。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
賴委員士葆：那這個法我已經幫你解啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
郭部長智輝：這個法如果解掉了，我可能就會考慮這樣做，所以有各種不同的考慮。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
賴委員士葆：不！我的解讀是因為卓榮泰院長最近又講還是要非核家園，所以把你的嘴巴塞住了，我覺得比較遺憾的是這個啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
主席：賴委員，你的時間超過了。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
賴委員士葆：讓我把這句話講完，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][1] |
我希望你做你──郭智輝，不要做民進黨的郭智輝，要做中華民國經濟部長郭智輝，可以嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
郭部長智輝：謝謝委員指導。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
賴委員士葆：要有骨氣啦！不要怕被政治亂下去啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
主席：謝謝賴士葆委員，部長請回座休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][1] |
接下來請李柏毅、李柏毅、李柏毅委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][2] |
請賴惠員委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
272 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-15 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
199 |
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2024-06-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135601 |
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| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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賴士葆議員 |
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25.855 |
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49.573 |
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這個看你今天這個一個早上下來好像有刃有餘了齁這個我問你幾個問題 簡短的問題第一個原來媒體報導說你身價超過100億 有嗎我不知道他從哪裡得到我有身價100億你自己講有沒有嘛沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
53.328 |
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82.426 |
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有比較漏氣耶 大家幫你捧很高 大家對你期待很高你又說100億 我覺得問題就是 但是你不管多少啦齁即便沒有100億 幾十億都有啦 一定有嘛 對不對有這麼有錢 你當經濟部長你沒想過 我們一般的勞工 三分之二領不到平均工資平均工資大概不到四萬五 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.315 |
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111.251 |
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然後我們的員工的薪資除以GDP這是一個分配的問題全世界先進國家都超過50%唯獨臺灣逐年下降現在43%資本家你應該算資本家吧還沒來之前你算資本家嗎請問你你是資本家吧資本家對我是有出資本經營公司的那就資本家嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
126.896 |
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我們臺灣GDP賺的錢都給你們賺走了基層的員工拿43%你們拿很多很多錢所以我就問你一個問題你當經濟部長怎麼樣讓企業幫助員工加薪告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.837 |
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149.09 |
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這個對我來講不是什麼太難的問題 跟委員報告我只要讓我所有的企業所做的工作是加值的工作在他的人工的成本相對比例之下那一定是可以給員工加薪的你現在當經濟部長了嘛 等於是所有董事長的董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.325 |
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176.227 |
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你管企業基本上你應該有辦法請你告訴我們有什麼辦法讓他們對員工相信我最快的方法就是我的境內關外的這個做法境內關外我境內關外的做法就是利用一些稅制然後邀請國外用免稅的方法然後擴大我的內需市場那你跟財政部談過沒有請問 |
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177.932 |
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201.681 |
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我們先提出來這樣的一個想法境內關外那就是過去我們在馬英九時代執政的時候所談到的經濟示範區這個概念境內關外自由流動零關稅零這個障礙對吧不完全一樣 |
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205.134 |
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220.749 |
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這個我再問你一個具體的我提案了對中小企業將近150萬家他給員工加薪我們給他乘以現在是130乘以兩倍200%的費用你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.096 |
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246.198 |
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我盡量來讓這個所有的這個薪資啊都能夠提升到這個委員剛才所指導的這樣的一個方向境內管外的意思是要每一個地區都要劃境內管外喔港口旁邊機場旁邊都要劃是這個意思喔我們的境內管外是對某一些業者來講給他一些virtual的虛擬的virtual不是一個area不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
247.052 |
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273.765 |
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是一個虛擬的他在他原來的地方從事所謂價值在內關外可以加薪今天一個很重要的事情第二個請問你有沒有跟黃榮鑫見過面有什麼時候前幾天吃飯的時候怎麼沒有找你啊吃飯找我沒有沒有我大概因為在減肥所以不吃這個宵夜你不喜歡吃台灣的夜市是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
274.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
286.534 |
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我喜歡台灣夜市但是不喜歡跟大家一起逛夜市所以所以他逛夜市沒邀請你嗎我不是他的業者所以他不會邀請我 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
308.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我希望你我們對一般對你期待是高的可是我感覺你接了部長這段時間你在變4月18號你說核電如果需要研議要全民共事這句話還有效嗎一樣好那我們請看下一頁現在最新的一個民調PACE |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.666 |
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332.532 |
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清潔人員公眾態度83%的臺灣人支持民調支持核電2018年以核養綠就是我核電來養我的綠電等到成熟了我核電再退 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
334.014 |
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355.613 |
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這個通過了這就是全民共識啊結果你在五天以前河山廠你說要用當作備用電力啊全世界沒有一個經濟部長或者一個大專家說河電居然是備用備援的UBA |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.384 |
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373.85 |
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河電當然是機載用電啊怎麼會是備用呢怎麼你越來越縮起來啊原來是說全民有公司我就用河電後來一直退啊變成我的感覺啊部長你原來是生意人大家因為知道你頭腦清楚會賺錢腦筋清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
404.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
大家對你期待很高有個期待希望你不要變成政客但是你越來越像政客這個完全就是跟民進黨的廢核家人走了你現在不敢談核電了這個你不敢談核電了居然說AI用電量很高這時候你開始用光電難道把台灣全部都蓋滿這個光電板你說用光電你就是不談到核電 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
405.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
422.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
跟委員報告這個委員可能有點誤會啦齁這個何能不能不是說不能夠當機宅而是我在講說何能當然是機宅阿全世界都是機宅阿對啊怎麼被用了怎麼到底在那邊被用了被用是因為我將他他因為受我們現在的法令的規定他必須要降載 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
423.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
423.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
賴主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
443.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你要蓋個新的電廠,要6年時間,對吧?對好,要6年時間,那就是天然氣的,又是有CO2,全世界是簡單不進核阿那現在有的核三長,我已經替你法律我都列好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
456.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
報告委員：賴士葆報告委員：賴士葆 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
486.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個法如果解掉的話這個法如果解掉了那我可能就會考慮這樣子做所以我們有各種不同的考慮沒有因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
495.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
495.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
謝謝委員指導謝謝來部長請回答 |