| IVOD_ID |
153608 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153608 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-19-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-05T11:18:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-05T11:30:23+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c9851d7b64960bd3a3ca6cabf0dc0d1a8b711da973c502cee621936c39b81b8ab135ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳超明 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:18:03 - 11:30:23 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
611 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
陳委員超明：（11時18分）主席好，有請郭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請郭部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
陳委員超明：郭部長好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
郭部長智輝：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
陳委員超明：你從企業界出身，非常注重公司治理，崇越集團這麼大的公司在你手裡茁壯長大，表示公司的治理非常好。我很少對國營事業提出質詢，今天我要跟部長報告，台糖的畜牧養殖場到現在一直都沒有完成，而且接受調查，現在還有未爆彈，請部長好好地確實瞭解一下。公司的競爭要公平，不要被人為因素所影響，民間公司有自信、有能力，大家去調整，這是第一點。台糖人員不要緊張，請回座，有必要問你，我會跟你講。我們要有合理、公平的待遇。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][1] |
第二，大家談到輝達研發中心，高雄要、哪裡也要，我不知道郭部長經營企業期間有沒有到過我們苗栗？是不是只到新竹科學園區，就沒有過來我們苗栗？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
郭部長智輝：有啦，我也是苗栗很重要的客人。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
陳委員超明：好，我知道。我跟你說，我們苗栗好山好水，除了有5座水庫，現在準備再蓋一座，還有通霄火力發電廠，所以不缺水也不缺電。第二個，好山好水，遠景非常好，勞動力也非常的足夠，尤其是它鄰近新竹科學園區。部長，不能只往綠的執政縣市或是往大都市走，我們苗栗是中心點，北邊是新竹科學園區、南邊是臺中科學園區，只缺了這一段，你把輝達的研發中心設在苗栗就是功德無量，幫我這個忙，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
郭部長智輝：報告委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
陳委員超明：你好好想，我說的不假，對於這個地點我也多少了解啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
郭部長智輝：委員，我向你報告，做data center不是只有輝達一家而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
陳委員超明：我知道、我知道有好幾家，包括…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
郭部長智輝：我們來爭取後續好幾家都要來、好幾家都要來。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
陳委員超明：好幾家都要來？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
郭部長智輝：好幾家都要來。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
陳委員超明：台積電……在竹南設一個半導體產業鏈園區，大矽谷計畫就是考慮在那個地方，不要偏袒。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
郭部長智輝：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
陳委員超明：給苗栗一個繁榮發展的機會，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
郭部長智輝：因為有很多的數據中心即將成立，苗栗的條件這麼好，他們一定會選擇。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
陳委員超明：我們的條件很好，全省都沒有我們苗栗的條件好，他們都是臭屁的，但我們是實在的！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
陳委員超明：再來，主席，你別牽拖！說什麼立法委員的職權行使法會讓外資跑掉，哎喲！國際生意炒來炒去，不要被這個影響，尤其是不能說賣掉就好，好不好？它有一好，但是我已經稱讚過一點了，這點不太好。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][1] |
部長，我認為你這個經濟部長的位置可以坐穩滿滿的4年，你真的很好，尤其是現在AI產業的九大巨頭都來臺灣拉樁腳，就跟我們選舉一樣，把他們都拉過來當我的靠山，但是你要注意一個問題，這個部長位置能否坐得穩，水、電、勞工一定要好好準備。水的部分，水利署，最近下了很多雨，你可以坐下來、可以坐在那邊，很少有人會注意。電的部分，我們的曾次長、曾董事長要加油，現在大家都說電不夠，但是那麼久以來，我也全力支持台電在通霄的各種建設，像是通霄電廠，離岸風力第一座也是我支持你們成功的，所以你要打拼，不要讓部長擔憂。我相信窮則變，變則通，你把電顧好。再來是勞工很欠缺，我告訴你，所以這一點你就穩穩了。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][2] |
但是我教你一點，不要亂講話，反核、核電，你不要說覺得有必要，反核是執政黨的神主牌、是執政黨的護黨神山，我告訴你，你不要亂講話，否則你的官位馬上不保，因為是好朋友，我才告訴你的。現在我告訴你的是實際的，你不要只是帶著微笑，這是深刻體驗，我們不要去把人家的神主牌拆掉，不然官位就不保、黨運不隆，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
郭部長智輝：謝謝、謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
陳委員超明：再來一點，關於AI產業，你講到了一個重點，現在所有的AI產業都在講伺服器，伺服器有好幾家都會做，但是部長要有一個能力，我們不是廉價的勞工啊！那個會像紅海市場殺來殺去，到最後都沒有利潤，跟我們的電腦一樣，你不要搞到只有3%的利潤，這是可預期到的。你看這些大咖來抓樁腳，他們也是要來砍價格啦！因為只有台積電能做出來，我們才有這樣，希望你能深深的體會到，我們不能讓臺灣的廠商自相殘殺。另外，我要特別提出，AI是運算周邊的能力、創新的能力最重要，這一點要加強，臺灣在AI周邊應用的能力一定要加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
今天早上我看到一則報導，你在五年內要領IC設計業躋身前面排名，這個好，軟體賺錢，硬體是載來載去，載到最後我們臺灣很可憐，非常漂亮，但是沒有真的賺到錢，這一點，我相信你有深深的感受，因為你賣台晶圓的原料，比較不會感受到，下面的員工的話，我說的有沒有道理，你回答一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
郭部長智輝：對臺灣來講，未來我們要全力發展的就是AI的應用人才。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
陳委員超明：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
郭部長智輝：如同委員所指導的，硬體是賺不了什麼錢，AI Server比較有實力的大家都有辦法做，不過要怎麼利用AI、訓練AI、使用AI，這個就是我們以後百工百業都能學習及應用。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
陳委員超明：部長，打個岔，這個我知道，你的人才，這些世界大公司過來，以前高通在這邊設研發中心，承諾要投資7億美金作為對我們的賠償，結果做投資地減用，它把7億拿去將薪水抬高，結果去拉台積電的人、台積電的人又去拉聯發科的人、聯發科的人又去拉下面的人，臺灣訓練的就是這些人才，未來你也會遭遇到這樣的狀況，我一直在強調這一點。但是我們的薪水為什麼一直都沒提高？美國可以印鈔票，我們臺灣不能印鈔票，他們給那麼高的薪水，你以後帶動臺灣，所以包括勞工在內，這個是環環相扣的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
郭部長智輝：是、是。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
陳委員超明：要對臺灣有實質幫忙的啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
郭部長智輝：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
陳委員超明：好嗎？你要注意這個問題啊！他們美國的鈔票很容易印，但我們是很可憐辛苦存起來的，你和我都一樣，而且你更有經驗，有那麼大的企業，我相信你也能感受到。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
郭部長智輝：是，報告委員，這次所有要來臺灣做數據中心的大廠，我們都要求一定要用一半從國外帶來的工程師，假設需要2,000人，只能在臺灣選1,000人，它必須帶1,000位國外的工程師過來。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
陳委員超明：不然臺灣的薪水那麼低，人才都跑掉了，我現在擔心的是這個，你也知道嘛！你補充不來，我給你綠卡、我給你什麼優惠的待遇，你要想通些，我相信你是有感受的。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][1] |
有一點我要誇獎主席，我們剛剛通過的再生醫療法，要好好注意啊！這麼大的健康產業，我向部長報告，可能有一個護國神山會出現，但是我覺得針對生技產業，經濟部的編制太小、太小，這麼大的產業竟然也是你們負責，衛福部只負責人體試驗，麻煩針對生技產業的試驗要加強。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
郭部長智輝：是的。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
陳委員超明：最後一個問題，賴委員那麼好，讓我多講幾分鐘，再1、2分鐘就好。剛剛說的五大產業，半導體產業、人工智慧產業看起來是可以的，安控產業就是與資安軟體有關係，通信產業5G、6G以及低軌衛星，這個都在發展，世界都在拚。現在的軍工產業，你怎麼不來報告？我剛剛到立法院看了很多買賣武器、做飛機的在這邊繞來繞去，與這個有關係嗎？我也看過你的業務報告，你說你指導的只有三個，軍工產業不在那一邊，我只講一句話，不要把臺灣當作武器國，我們可以做代工、做加工，我們要……因為你講的一句話很重要，今天有一篇報導，部長可能要接受地緣政治的考驗，剛剛說大陸的不要，改天我與你討論ECFA。其實ECFA很嚴重，你們講得輕描淡寫，尤其是我碰到很多，成衣的布料進去，本來臺商在那，都買臺灣的布料，現在他們不敢買，8%的關稅。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][1] |
我相信實業界的人出來要面對問題、解決問題，不要講得那麼好聽，現在是你好狗運耶！剛好遇到AI電腦展的聲勢這麼大，百花燦爛，臺灣很有前途，其實把ECFA蓋掉了。但是要好好去做，中小企業是本，其中有很多隱形企業的冠軍，不要輕描淡寫將他們忽視掉，改天再與你討論中小企業就會有危險。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
郭部長智輝：好，謝謝你的指教。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
陳委員超明：你說的一些，什麼去越南要叫那些遊客來、世界到處走，從前你們這些企業的有錢人都去日本，不要用那種遊覽的心態、觀光的心態，好不好？寫的報告不切實際。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
郭部長智輝：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
主席：謝謝，部長，請回座休息。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][1] |
接下來請賴瑞隆委員發言。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
272 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-19-15 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
羅廷瑋 |
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涂權吉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
李柏毅 |
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立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄 |
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邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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陳超明委員發言指揮啊現在有請我們郭部長來請郭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.912 |
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50.5 |
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郭部長委員好你從企業界出身非常自作公私自領那你來了我相信你從從業集團不大的公司在索尼一直茁壯長大表示公私的自理非常好那我很少對國營事業提出一些執行那今天我要跟部長報告我們的台場裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.148 |
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57.733 |
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關於我們的西木養殖場到現在一直都還沒有完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.903 |
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有必要來問我,我會跟你講我們要做合理公平的答應 |
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86.479 |
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104.735 |
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第一位,大家談到飛塔、營運化中心,高雄要哪裡也要。我不知道郭部長,你做企業期間要去廟宁走過嗎?還是走到新竹科學院就沒有過廟宁?有啦,我廟宁也是很重要的客人。我知道。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
106.348 |
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118.08 |
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我美國我命令好山好水,我水庫有五座,現在準備蓋一座,我還有通宵綠化電廠,所以不缺水不缺電。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
120.372 |
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144.847 |
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好山好水,緣泉非常沉穩,勞動力非常直掛,尤其他在新職科學研區一變。不能指往立的執政或是大都市走,我問苗栗市中心點,他北聯的新職科學研區,南列的台中科學研區只缺了這一段,你把輝達 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
146.788 |
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166.26 |
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原化中心百來苗栗,你講得有料,幫我這個忙好不好?報告委員齁,你以後我想我講的不會假,我才叫我的基金了解啦。委員我跟您報告齁,這要做這個Data Center齁,不是只有輝達一間而已。我知道,我是澳大利亞的經理,澳大利亞整個大陸都要來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.322 |
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170.942 |
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陳超明委員：陳超明 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.702 |
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200.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
再來部長： |
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226.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我看你這個經濟部長會長四年多你真的很好尤其現在AI的那個產業裏面世界所有的九大巨頭都全部在臺灣的U跳馬卡跟我們選舉一樣把他拉過來 拉過來當我的靠山所以請問但是這一點你要注意一個問題你會不會找這個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.649 |
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279.501 |
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水電勞工你一定要好好準備那水的話水歷史最近天下很多雨你可以坐下來可以坐在那邊很少人吃電我們的曾次長曾董事長要加油現在大家都講你見不過但是我跟台電那麼久我也全力的在支持台電通銷各種建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.779 |
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303.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
通宵、電廠、離岸婚禮第一座都是我在跟你們支持成功的。施亂就好了。您要努力。不要給部長擔憂。我相信窮則變,變則通。您把電鍋給我恢復。在這裡的勞工很欠缺,我跟您講。所以這一點,您就溫溫了。但是我教你一個,您不需要亂講話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
306.857 |
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325.414 |
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核電反核,核電你不要講,說我覺得有必要,反核是執政黨的神主牌,是執政黨的赫黨神山啊。我會說你們亂講的,不然你講的馬上不保,我和朋友我才跟你講啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.769 |
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350.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我告訴你你不要只有帶著微笑這個深刻體驗我們不要去把人家孫子爬台上不然官位不老黨運不容好不好謝謝 謝謝委員再來一點你講到AI的產業你有講到一個重點現在所有AI的產業都在講伺服器 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
352.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
好幾家都會做,但是保定你要有一個能力喔!我們不是廉價的勞工啦!優秀的廉價勞工,那該不會是鴻海市長?啥來上去都沒有利潤。跟我們的電腦一樣,你不要感到只有3%的利潤,這個可以預取得到。你看一些大咖來抓莊角,他也是要來砍下閣啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
377.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
405.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
因為只有臺積電能做出來我們才有這樣我希望你有深深的體會到我們不能讓臺灣的廠商自相的殘差另外我特別提到AI是它的運算桌邊的能力創新能力最重要這一點要加強把臺灣在AI應用邊緣應用的那個能力一定要加強我今天早上看了一個說 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你在五年內要領IC設計廠提升錢牌,這個好,軟禮賺錢,硬體是載來載去,載到最後我們台灣很可憐,非常漂亮,但是沒有真的賺到錢,這點我相信你有深深的感受,因為你賣台青鹽的顏料比較不會感受到,我講了沒得力了,你跟我回答一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
433.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
447.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我想這個臺灣來講的話,未來我們要全力發展的就是AI的這個應用人才,因為這個如同這個委員所指導的,這個硬體是賺不了什麼錢,這個AI社會,比較有實力的大家都發動做。 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
451.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
452.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這世界大公司來 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
470.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我以前高通在這邊設研發中心他有一個7億美金的本來要來做我們賠償結果做投資遞減用他這7億貼以刑事押款去叫台積電的人台積電的人去叫研發課的人研發課的人就去叫學科的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
510.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
臺灣今年就是這麼人在地啊李慧榮來遭遇到這樣我一直在強調這一點但是我們的形勢一直怎樣都不體感美國可以印鈔票我們臺灣不能印鈔票因為他管理形勢你以後要帶動臺灣所以你保管老公這個是環環相扣的啊對臺灣是很有幫忙的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
513.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我跟委員報告,這邊所有的大型的來臺灣做數據中心,我們都有要求他一定要用一半,為外國出來的港領事 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
541.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們的那個那個什麼三話那個什麼剛剛通過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
569.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你只要再生化 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
571.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
597.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要好好治癒啊這大健康產業啊我跟我們的部長報告可能有一個護國損傷會出現但是我覺得你們在生技產業裡面經濟部的編制太小太小既然大產業也是你們在負責不是衛福部他只有負責整體試驗在那個生技產業的試驗之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
600.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
627.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
麻煩,這個要加強。最後一個問題,你站起來再一兩分鐘。那裡面有談到,我剛剛你五大產業,半導體產業,人工智慧產業看起來可以了。那安控產業就是跟資安軟體有關係。那通信產業5G、6G,包括你低軌衛星,這個都在發展,世界都在拼。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
651.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
現在有一個軍工產業阿你怎麼不來報告我剛剛到立法院看了很多阿那個做買賣武器阿做飛機在這邊繞來繞去阿這有什麼關係我也看你的那個業務報告你說你指導的只有三個軍工產業不在那邊我只講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
653.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不要把臺灣當作武器我們可以做代工做加工我們要監視其間因為你講的一句話很重要今天有一篇報章你部長可能就要接受地緣政治的考驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
669.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
669.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
陳超明 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
687.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
704.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我相信十月借人出來要面對問題解決問題,不要說人好聽,現在是你好果硬的,就說我們的AI電腦展這樣舒適很大,百花燦爛台灣最有前途,其實要求法把要求法閹掉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
705.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
706.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
721.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主席 |