| IVOD_ID |
153574 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153574 |
| 日期 |
2024-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-35-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-06-05T10:39:31+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-06-05T10:45:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:05:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98f97262af9e77e7ec7e99b63b7a11dbca68f95e3d087843c2315cf85df7fa038c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:39:31 - 10:45:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
354 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時39分）主席、各位委員。請主委。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：主委請。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
嚴主任委員德發：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：主委好。關於剛才徐巧芯委員質詢的，那個是不合理的就要去反映，甚至要修法……甚至要修法，雖然法不是你們的，但要建議修法。我們看國軍退除役官兵輔導條例第七條規定，凡為輔導退除役官兵就業所需用之土地，政府、各主管機關就可以提供，依法撥供輔導會作為使用，我們以退輔會的臺東農場為例，自己經營的22%、委託經營的百分之六十點多了，這張表都是委託給個人企業，真正是退除役官兵在那邊就業的非常、非常少。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
我們回到法律，我是老公務員，絕對是依法行政，請退輔會主委看這邊，國有財產法第三十九條規定非公用財產經撥為公用後，就是剛才依國軍退除役官兵輔導條例撥給退輔會，為了給退除役官兵就業所需用的土地，現在用途廢止了，你沒有做就業之用，而且你變更原定用途、委託出租，其實就是出租給企業啊！於原定用途外，還有了收益，違反國有財產法第三十九條第一款、第二款、第三款。我們再看原住民族基本法第二十條規定，政府承認原住民族土地及自然資源權利，法律定得很清楚，所以退輔會很多的土地違反原住民族基本法、違反退輔會的國軍退除役官兵輔導條例，也違反國有財產法，這是非常老的檔案。嚴主委，你知道許歷農主委這個人嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
嚴主任委員德發：知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：退輔會許歷農主委在民國77年5月15號答復內政部吳伯雄部長，內政部吳伯雄部長是根據原住民的建議親自發函給退輔會主委，退輔會許歷農主委再發函給吳伯雄部長，同意將現在沒有利用的土地四十六點五多公頃撤銷撥用歸還，而且還多了一句話，「今後視安置的狀況，若再有不需公務利用之土地定當繼續辦理撤銷撥用事宜。」主委，你在軍中很久了，很多現在的退除役官兵在早期都安置了，我們原住民都配合，但現在沒有了，去做農的人很少，而且有的已經到天國去了。就原住民族而言，退輔會許歷農主委的承諾代表著中華民國政府與原住民族的契約承諾。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
這部分我給你看一個最近的公文，財政部113年3月14號發函給退輔會，你們就是要依法、依國有財產法返還，我們不搶奪，我們只就原住民本來就在使用、一直在使用的，撥給你們但你們沒有用那麼多，而我們還在使用的這些土地能夠依法增編為原住民保留地。我們要特別再講一句話，在威權統治時期，許歷農主委是在威權統治時期，他都可以依法撤銷撥用、返還給原住民族，現在號稱民主憲政時期，民主憲政也很多年了，更應該要依法行政。主委，你回去的時候，跟同仁好好的…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：因為你剛上任，所以這部分要特別、特別來請嚴主委，過去的立場不同，沒有關係，但是依法行政最重要，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
嚴主任委員德發：是，我們會依法行政。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：依法行政，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭天財委員，請主委回去研議。各位請回。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
接下來進行詢答委員張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員、張嘉郡委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][2] |
請楊瓊瓔委員進行詢答。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
198 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-35-24 |
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王定宇 |
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羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
徐巧芯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
洪申翰 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
林憶君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
161 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-06-05 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1135601_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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主委 主席 各位委員 委員你要質詢我委員很想 讓你升官請主委 主委請政委好 主委好 這個不合理的 如果你剛才 小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
23.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
28.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
國軍退除役官兵輔導條例第7條規定防衛輔導退除役官兵就業首席用之土地政府各主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
54.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
提供依法撥工輔導會作為使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個退會我們就以臺東農場為例這個自己經營的22%委託經營的60%點多了然後這些都是委託給個人企業曾振延那個退除官兵在那邊就業的非常非常的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
81.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
110.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好我們回到法例我是老公務員絕對是依法行政但是要請退伍會這個主委這邊國有財產法第39條規定非公用財產經撥為公用就是說剛才依退除役官兵輔導條例撥給這個退伍會因為為了要退除役官兵的就業所需用的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
111.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
111.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
112.998 |
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140.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
用途廢止了你沒有做就業之用而且你變更原定用途委託給出租了其實就是出租給企業以原定用途外還收了有了這個收益違反了國有產法39條的第一款第二款第三款然後我們看原住民族基本法第20條規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
141.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
政府承認原住民族土地的權利這法律的定的很清楚所以退伍會很多的土地違反了原住民族基本法違反了退伍會的條例國軍退除役官兵輔導條例也違反了國有財產法這個非常老的檔案原住委 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
197.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
許立農主委有知道這個人嗎?知道退府會許立農主委在民國77年5月15號答覆內政部吳博雄部長內政部吳博雄部長是根據原住民的建議然後他發文給這個親自發行給退府會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
199.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
退府會主委施令榮發行給吳伯雄部長說同意將現在沒有利用的土地46.5多公頃徹銷撥用歸還而且還多了一句話今後是安置的狀況若再有不惜公務利用之土地應當繼續辦理徹銷撥用 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.557 |
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這個主委你在軍中也很久了很多退出役官兵現在的退出役官兵早期當然都安置我們原住民都配合都配合那現在沒有了現在去做農的很少了所以而且有的已經到天啊到天國去了所以就原住民族而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
281.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
退伍會習立榮主委的承諾．代表著中華民國政府．以延續民主的企業的承諾所以這樣大概一個部分我給你看一個最近的公文財政部113年3月14號發行給退伍會希望你們不是希望就是要依法依法依國有財產法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本來就在使用一直在使用的因為撥給你們說但是你們沒有用那麼多我們還在使用的這些土地能夠依法偵編為原住民保留地所以這個部分我們要特別去再講一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
311.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
324.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
339.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
民主憲政也很多年了更應該要依法行政這個主委你回去的時候跟同仁好好的因為你剛上任所以這個部分要特別特別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
341.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
353.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
來請這個嚴主委這邊過去的立場不同沒有關係但是依法行政最重要好不好謝謝政務院委員然後主委回去也謝謝 |