| IVOD_ID |
15343 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15343 |
| 日期 |
2023-12-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2023120475 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
10 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2023-12-08T09:30:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2023-12-08T10:50:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:19:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2ddeff58037f6e0aed01d95ed5b288e31546d53a332764a535719e565c51aba5e25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2023-12-08T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：併案審查行政院函請審議「軍事營區安全維護條例草案」、本院委員王定宇等21人及本院台灣民眾黨黨團分別擬具「軍事營區安全維護條例草案」等3案） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:30:03 - 10:50:00 |
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1830.359 |
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財政局局長 |
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1850.13 |
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1853.592 |
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國防部部長邱國正長屋次長楊吉隆省市委中將陳文新中將 |
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1865.24 |
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1883.869 |
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其他請參考初期會議資料軍事營區安全維護條例在審查時除了第7、第16、第20、第24條保留外若果也沒有其他的意見我們就開始針對保留的條文進行討論現在我們開始討論有不同意見的條文 |
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1889.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1895.295 |
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現在修正動議是協商裡面可以修正動議嗎?還是直接協商條文,把那個修正動議的內容寫在條文裡面,就是協商的條文? |
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1919.488 |
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1942.342 |
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因為修正動議不是一般在院會裡面的修正動議這是看院裡面這邊兩種方式都可以可以提出修正動議或者是當場針對文字上的修正我的意思是協商就是在修正那就有意見了我們才保留來協商那就是說我們會把這個修正動議的內容納進去 |
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1951.926 |
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1980.194 |
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我的意思是因為原來還要叫我們提修正動議的時候我就覺得很奇怪我們所有院會當中的提案照理說保留4條要來協商協商的話就是提出來朝野協商的內容就是要如何修正這4條那會再提個修正動議那到底是誰提還是要連署還是要幹嘛我們就覺得很奇怪 |
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1981.513 |
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1981.693 |
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主席 |
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2008.823 |
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2034.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我沒有反對這個修正內容我也覺得很好但是那個程序上對不對我就覺得把他們的修正東西的東西就是納入今天協商條文的修正就這樣子對 我們等一下跟婉如委員這邊更新一下我們會讓醫事人員做進行宣讀那在協商的過程當中因為這個修正的動議是整合我們跨黨派當時候像 |
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2036.212 |
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2036.312 |
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國民黨委員 |
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2059.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2060.276 |
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一條一條修正 |
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2086.294 |
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2114.821 |
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對 因為針對保留的部分對 那我們是否這是第七條宣讀這樣子對 我們先讓他宣讀一下練完之後 然後修正了趕快宣讀有意見都如果後續要調整的話這個都一定要尊重我們本委員會的大家的意見以上 我們是否讓議事人員對 那現有這個進行保留條文的協商那我們首先先討論第七條一條一條的討論那如果有這個現有修正動議請議事人員進行宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2116.798 |
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2142.828 |
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修正動議軍事營區安全維護條例草案第7條及第20條修正動議第7條除第3項修正內容為指揮官、執行軍官、士官對無故侵入軍事營區者的命強制驅離或採取其他必要措施有事時逐任有刺探收集國家機密或國防秘密軍事機密行為者得依《刑事訴訟法》第88條規定進行逮捕並即送交 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2146.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2173.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
檢察官、司法檢察官或司法檢察其餘條文內容同行政院提案第七條修正立法書明一、行政院版書明第一點及第三點未修正二、說明欄第二點建議修正為因違反第六條第一項第一款規定未經許可進入軍事營區者構成刑法第306條第一項無故侵入他人住宅建築物或覆名圍繞之土地或傳見之罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2174.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2184.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
為維護軍事營區及機密資訊安全,源於第3項前段地名指揮官、執勤軍官、士官得實施強制驅離或其他必要措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2185.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2206.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
或指揮督導衛少兵執行之面如有事實主任該侵入者有刺探、收集國家機密或國防機密、軍事機密屬涉有刑法、國家機密保護法或陸海工軍刑法所定相關罪嫌之現刑法依刑事訴訟法第88條規定由指揮官執行居關事關禁以逮捕或 |
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2207.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2235.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
指揮督導為哨兵執行之原委本項後段規範第20條以加害生命、身體自由、名譽、財產之事恐嚇依本條例執行軍事營區安全勤務之為哨兵或執行軍官事關者處兩年以下有期徒刑拘獄或薪台幣20萬元以下罰金修正立法說明一、行政院版說明第二點未修正二、說明欄第一點建議修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2236.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2246.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
為掃兵或執行軍官、士官、勤務之執行關係軍事營區安全自據亦為軍事機關之表徵,原參准陸海空軍刑法第67條及刑法第305條 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2248.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2267.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
定名對於執行軍事營區安全潛入資、衛哨兵或執行軍官、士官、實行恐嚇行為之刑法行者部分參考刑法第305條規定之法定型並定名較重之法經行動提案人委員何志偉、王定宇、林靜穎等人宣讀完畢我們是否先請國防部說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2275.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2296.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是 跟委員報告 剛剛宣讀的那個修正動議我們看了第7條跟第20條跟原來的那個規範的本質第7條的部分是沒有什麼問題 這國安部來配合這是我們可以做得到的那第20條的部分主要是刑度把它做了一個調降3年變成2年 罰30萬變成罰20萬那這個部分我們也尊重 是以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2297.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2298.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2317.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2317.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2347.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2350.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
國防部的存在是為了保家衛國 國防部的存在是為了保護人民我們不希望有任何的意外為了謹慎妥適以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2368.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2368.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員王定宇等 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2387.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2387.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2405.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2430.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
警察、我們的公務人員、維安人員、還有軍人他們這裡面如果施行恐嚇的話不應該有不同的對待跟處置所以我們希望就依照一個公平性的原則把他的刑責跟其他的單位還有我們的相對的刑法讓他一致化 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2431.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2436.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本院委員王定宇等21人及本院台灣民眾黨團分別擬具《軍事營區安全維護條例草案》、本院台灣民眾黨團分別擬具《軍事營區安全維護條例草案》、本院台灣民眾黨團分別擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2460.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2461.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
法務部法律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2480.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2480.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
委員王定宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2500.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2523.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我們是覺得把衛少兵任與那麼重要的工作我們當然覺得說對他來講太為難了因為有時候到底嚴重性怎麼樣他無法做實際的判斷所以一般來講我們指揮官、執勤軍官、士官對無故侵入者你把少衛兵拿掉是就是保障他不要授予他那麼大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2524.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2549.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
全責因為他如果不執行的話可能受到懲處的機會很高但是我覺得這個修正當中把那個衛少兵拿掉然後得命強制驅離我好像很少看到得命那個師父你是佛部的人那個得命驅離當然他是接受指揮官他一定會上上呈報嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2551.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2552.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
文字上也怪怪的還是你們也是都這樣寫說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2568.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2590.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是 跟主席、各位委員報告因為它這個文字比較單純就是說賦予這個軍官士官因為軍官士官本身是一個指揮職是一個領導者所以他可以下令衛少兵來執行強制驅離那在文字上來講的話這個命字其實跟那個令字一樣就是下令 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2591.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2617.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以他本身來講的話在行政法的這個角度來看的話基本上他這個其實也就是一個命令一個行政處分嗎兩個意義其實是一樣的對對對都有目前法治上都有這種用法但是比較少說寫命令兩個字就是命或者是令則以用目前是比較多是這種寫法 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2622.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2642.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那個老闆原果然是非常專業的確我們當時候我在提這個修正動議的時候也跟您的想法是一樣的那當時候也是天人交戰到底要怎麼樣才可以讓法令看起來更清楚更直接那那個連結性更強那用命才會讓他們提醒他們說他們所有的行動都攸關這個生命所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2646.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2664.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
當社才以這個一個字的以命來當作這個最主要的動詞跟他的這個指揮權的詮釋以上好那謝謝詹委那邱成遠第一次發言那主要是針對這個修正動議那當然在20條的部分這個以加害生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2665.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2682.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
身體、自由、名譽、財產之事的恐嚇依本條例執行軍事營區安全勤務之衛哨兵或執行軍官、士官者這個部分的修正東西大概是針對那個罰則的部分來去降低因為原本那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2684.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2710.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
院版的部分是3年以下由其徒刑居獄或新台幣30萬元以下那昭偉民進黨的版本這邊是有把它適度的一個調教那我剛剛有請教昭偉他的意思是說這個是比照刑法那我想請就教一下國防部的意見因為當時你們在定這個刑度應該有你們的一個標準那實際執行上的案例的狀況是如何因為當然就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2711.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2726.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
對於一些衛哨兵他們可能在前線有時候是需要直接面臨到一些基層群眾或是民意的一個回應甚至是成抗的一個狀況那在怎麼保障他們的權益之下因為這個有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2727.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2749.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
畢竟他們有時候會擦槍走火或是為國家來去做第一線的一個防護那當時你們在訂這個法的時候其實你們的刑度是比刑法稍微高一點那現在民進黨提的版本把它下降了那你們這邊的意見如何我想了解一下實際的情形還有你們的具體意見好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2751.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2778.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
委員好 法律司我跟委員做報告當時我們在擬定這個草案的時候因為看那個刑法恐嚇公安罪單純的恐嚇公安305條是兩年以下有期徒刑那我們這個課題這一條的課題是執勤中的衛哨兵所以說因為他不是一般人所以我們當時是建議說我們在行政院研討的時候稍微重一點點是三年以下有期徒刑那但是後來在委員在整個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2780.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2806.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
審查法案的這整個過程當中那其實像如果是落海空軍刑嘛就恐嚇衛燒兵或是妨礙他執勤的如果是軍人的話落海空軍刑嘛本來也就有處罰也不過就是3年以下有期徒刑那所以說後來我們覺得說這個橫評上面因為這個對的可能是一般的百姓那實際上主要我們是要希望他有個依據啦那說現在如果調降成兩年我們覺得說應該也足夠他只要依據在對依據在我們可以執行就可以了是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2807.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2832.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我這邊也再補充再說明一下當時為什麼會調降的幾個理由任何的法令當它沒辦法執行的時候這條法令是不存在的甚至有些法令下去它沒有執行也怕引起相對應的一些爭議台灣是一個民主的國家任何的言論自由絕對是予以保障的那我們就舉一個小小的案例來說如果有成慷的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2833.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2833.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
併案審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2851.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2862.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
當民眾對於兩個單位做一樣的事情但是他的法則卻又不一樣的時候難免對於社會觀感以及社會評價來講這個部分可能會產生相對應的差異當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2867.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2889.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
國軍是國家主權的絕對代表那警局是內政那兩個的確有所差異但是這一條法令出去之後我們還是希望對於民眾來講我們立法者也是站在民眾的角度那萬一一個擦槍走火我們不希望說後續會有不同同樣的一件事情假設說他們正在撐抗但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2890.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2909.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
判決出來,那第一個法官這邊在法院的單位來講他必須要依法行政那但是後續的呈現對於觀感也好或對民眾的公平性來講會有所差異所以我們才把行政院當時候的版本3年下降到2年那新台幣30萬下降到20萬這個是以上補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2915.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2943.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
其實我是覺得軍法取消我是覺得很怪異的當然那個年度大家都一窩蜂的把軍事法庭都取消掉但是實際上這個對軍人的尊重都沒有了嘛 對不對你們就本來就跟就是要教導民眾對軍人的尊重這跟配合那如果說還是一樣的話現在軍隊有時候軍機很難管就是放到民間法庭根本沒事 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2944.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2969.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以取消軍法我是覺得真的也是亂源之一對國防部的領導階層來講所以我是覺得也沒有必要說一定要這樣或怎麼樣當然在公平意義上是說持平的方式但實際上對國防部來講就是他有他的嚴重性我們要告知你就跟一般的不一樣所以國防部才會採取這種方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2970.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2976.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以我是覺得可以考慮一下為什麽一定要調到跟刑法305條一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3006.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3031.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好請問委員們還有現場的同仁針對文字上面我們先兩條我們已經都做廣泛的討論了那我們現在先聚焦到第七條的部分第七條整個條文條整的文字就是由這個即位哨兵這個行政院的版本我們把它拿掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3031.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3032.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
Ming 命 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3055.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3069.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為現在那個像比方說政府採購法、行政訴訟法等等的基本上也都是主管機關或者是法官命、被告怎麼樣命、誰怎麼樣就是說目前的法治上來講的話用命字是比較普遍一點的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3075.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3096.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
對 我很尊重委員的想法 沒有錯齁但是就是參照其他版本的這個 你的想法是絕對尊重也有它的道理在的那但是就現行的法規上面 比較通俗的用法是長這個樣子 對好 那可以接受嗎 可以齁 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3098.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3114.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
現場的這些意見都已經表達了那也請國防部這邊務必要聽進去好不好然後這些意見都很珍貴那我們現在第7條第7條照修正動議修正通過謝謝那現在我們進行下一個部分第20條第20條的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3119.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3141.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
原則上修正的部分就是兩年三年變兩年那三十萬變二十萬那補充說明是如果是在民間的刑法來講的話是兩年那罰金是九千元那當然在我們的版本裡面不是九千是二十萬這個部分先就教一下我們現場委員是否有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3144.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3171.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
是 來謝謝昭偉我想針對今天的軍事營區安全維護條例的部分我想還是說明一下因為這個案子還是非常重要所以我們希望今天還是可以順利通過其實本黨團在整個版本草案跟院版基本上是一致的所以我們大方向支持行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3172.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3200.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
但是我們認為本法的立法目的是在於讓國軍面對各項軍事演習訓練跟營區安全勤務的執行時維護這個軍事演習跟相關訓練跟營區的安全那原先確保國軍國防軍事任務稅刑訂定這個頒訂行政法則的行政規則跟實行計畫的方式規範法律位階不足所以它涉及各項人民權益的事項沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3201.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3219.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
辦法符合法律保留的原則那對於現在目前不管是推動全民國防或是國防軍事任務的執行其實都有一定程度的落差所以我們這次的修法我認為還是要在執行面的部分要更加的細緻所以相關的執法跟後續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3220.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3242.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
的執行包含勤務規範、主管機關、衛哨配置、安全管制、禁制跟限制事項應變處置包含使用武器的時機、程序、方式、SOP、補償措施跟違反禁止限制的事項跟罰則等等其實在相關的立法必要性跟特殊性 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3243.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3268.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
如果這個在整個法這個相關的母法上沒有辦法很細緻的規範的時候其實你們在執法或者是相關執行方面的一個程序應該要更加的細緻所以本期還是期望國防部最後再通過之後在相關的執法的定例要盡速重塑那向外界跟委員們充分說明不要讓民眾在不經意的情況下觸法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3269.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3283.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那對於國軍弟兄在相關勤務執行的規範的時候可以有所依據不用常常無所適從有時候其實他們在前線也是非常辛苦尤其這個規範他必須定型的更新有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3284.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3310.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
狀況有時候不太一樣其實要定期的檢討跟更新那在面對不法跟入侵以及窺視的一個狀況應該盡速排除這個現況簡單講這個法定下來之後要能夠執行能夠落實SOP要能夠照表操課然後要能夠滾動式檢討讓軍事的演習訓練跟營區重要的場域的安全能夠有效的維持這個才有辦法達到本法的立法目的這個是我們在這邊提出的一個建議以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3314.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3319.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
其實我們國民黨黨團這邊也提出來就是針對營安條例這一塊來講我們也希望說在國安部來講因為現在人力非常缺乏營安條例趕快通過的話在執行面當中包括各營區或者訓場當中對整個營區的安全維護當中會更完備一點點不然無法可依的話那這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3341.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3349.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
實在讓執行那個各單位就是各個營區當中沒有辦法去做一個依據或者是謝謝詹委你請的嗎王部怎麼沒有在叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3366.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3388.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以我們是以國民黨團來講我們也非常支持軍事營安條例的通過但是未來在那個條文裡面有很多執法就是行政命令當中或者辦法當中都還沒有完備吧還是都準備好了都草擬能不能一起一起出來讓我們了解不然的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3389.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3416.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們法院過了之後那你們的那個其他的辦法都還沒有出來我們也不想來重新再看一下我跟委員報告因為有很多執行面是在那裡對我跟委員報告本來這裡面相關我們有盤點過應該將來要定7個法規4個公告有一些現在已經原先已經過去有在用行政規則在做的那這個條文上一次在審查的時候本來召委這邊好像委員這邊也寫了修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3417.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3428.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
有寫的修正動議就是這個法的施行的日期是由行政院來定制我們這個過了之後我們後面會很加速的把那7個法規跟4個公告加速我們一定會盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3430.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3432.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
國安部的態度是這樣,法院過了之後慢慢來執行院的話還是很難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3449.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3466.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
這我要跟委員報一下,我們也希望講說工作能夠一路,一有法就馬上動但事實上在推出法之前,我們也能夠做公務員在哪裡,就也有很多規有規定規定也避免為了讓這個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3469.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3491.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
前後不一樣,因人而異,所以我們定這個法但法案以後,剛才委員的要求,就立刻擬出來,我們盡快的,但是還是要考慮周延的因為以往的很多規律,也就越像隨便講講,也不周延,造成後來的問題拼個時間,沒有時間壓迫的話,你們根本都是慢慢來不會啦,不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3493.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3512.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們這麼期盼這個法過不會說讓法過了之後放在那邊都沒有辦法實行我們一定會盡快的把那七個法規命令跟四個公告我就叫一下七個法規四個公告是在本會期結束前會出來還是本會期結束後才會出來我覺得先問一個時間點會比較對 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3515.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3516.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3536.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3542.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
會議結束前可能真的有困難我的理解是我們不見得一定要開會但是可以進行類似談話會的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3548.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3549.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
法規公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3566.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3594.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
就是我這邊也要拜託一下我們法案今天走到一個程序但是還是有一些攝影師、無人機等等他們其實是相對非常支持國防部他們才會變成鐵粉嘛他們在拍攝他們的權益等等這個當天我們是有要求這個發言人勢必要對外做一些說明啦那我認為是在法規在走的過程當中也可以邀請他們他們可以提供一些意見好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3595.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3596.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3614.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3629.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我同意趙偉剛才就像剛剛講的一些什麼那個時候對國軍來講非常支持的一些粉絲來講對 軍事迷來講他們攝影的各方面的你沒有把它規範得很清楚的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3630.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3630.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
委員會配合來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3657.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3686.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好 那我們現在進行條文的處理好不好第20條我們現在已經做了廣泛的討論了還有針對未來7個法規4個公告也有進行一些要求那時間要時間的部分我們等一下會後我們再確認一下下好不好那第20條呢我們是否就按照修正動議然後修正通過好 那第20條照修正動議修正通過好 我們進行下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3687.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3687.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
第16條 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3718.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3718.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
沒有意見 但是國賠很難 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3747.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3749.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
歐委員他在前面第15條的時候還有一個補償的規定,補償跟賠償都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3759.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3760.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
王定宇 國防部委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3777.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3777.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3796.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3797.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3812.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3840.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
根委員報告第24條主要是一個準用的條文原先因為他是最後一句他說執行勤務準用10到16條因為先前16條有保留有修正那現在就是按著準用的將來的規定也是按著16條的規範來做以上第16條跟第24條還是相對聯動的那24條的部分有沒有任何意見想法或提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3841.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3841.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3849.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3876.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好那目前呢我們合併審議我們軍事營區安全維護條例草案現在已協商完成非常感謝那協商的結論如下第7條第20條修正通過第16條第24條按照院版的提案通過那其餘按照其餘均照我們這個審查會的審查結果通過那我們現在要請黨團的協商代表簽名好不好但書是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3888.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3889.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3904.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3905.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3925.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3925.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
法規及公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3941.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3967.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
就算現在拿出來還是不成熟的不成熟的他一定還是需要再調整再修正那我們立法院的邏輯是說這個法規因為會涉及到國家安全以及人民的權益那因為都會動用相對應的這個器械等等的所以我們在這一塊是有我們的堅持啦那我們是否一周好不好我們用一周當單位可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3970.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3979.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
一周我們就先廣泛討論這樣子那當然如果說你們條文還沒有準備好的話不見得要7加4啦可能3加1我們也接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3980.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4007.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好 我們一週內跟委員裡面做好不好 一週內我們先把他們現有的東西先看完好不好 不見得但是在一週內但是你要提前跟我們講大概我們會會碰觸到哪些那時間的部分因為各個委員時間不一定所以我們時間現在不定但是原則是以一週一週為原則那時間因為你的時間 我的時間 大家的時間都要看一看嘛 好不好但 對對 那我們就約在台中好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4009.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4009.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
剪輯中... |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4033.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4041.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我當然很感謝昭偉這樣能夠體諒,而且初步可以講過但昭偉的要求也不為過,所以只能建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4059.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4075.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
就程序一樣照走,但我們也不會講話黃牛,因為國防部現在這個階段,大家幹部都很清楚,一個事情一來以後,一定有個工作節點,節點一到,假如沒有出去的話,我們負責國會的處都會頂到的,這個是絕對 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4082.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4095.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
因為這個協商結論要簽台的辦法送到院裡面去所以到下禮拜等於就我們會期已經即將結束大概10天左右所以所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4102.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4103.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
打發追到屏東去都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4115.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4137.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好,是否掌聲一下好不好,謝謝戰略強感謝這個是這個針對未來我們的營區安全非常重要那我們也期待最後有幾件事情散會前第一個請部長親自下去去督導我們在金門、外島等等的無人機的反制系統當時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4140.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4142.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
本院委員王定宇等21人及本院黨團分別擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4161.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4180.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
希望能夠增加國內的這些研發跟生產的能力所以在這邊跟院長說聲辛苦了那特別也要跟我先馬上讓我講也要跟部長說聲辛苦了但是我認為就如同剛剛廖委員的堅持他的堅持是有其正當性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4180.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4204.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我認知是在外島的部分當然無人機的侵擾頻率已經下降了那但是這個反制系統到現在已經超過一年囉還沒有完成那是否可以下一個時間點好不好下一個時間點我不管是哪裡做出來的但是它的系統需要能夠整合我們的外島需要防護我們營區安全條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4206.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4222.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這次最主要的原因就是當時我們在外島看到無人機我們沒有即刻用現代的方式在進行反制所以現在我們必須要要求這個部分因為法條有了那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4223.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4224.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
軍事營區安全維護條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4246.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4263.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
當然有很多所謂的軍事迷其實他也陸陸續續的在幫我們的國軍留下一些記錄但是他沒有惡意那我們陸陸續續已經盤點出來二三十個點那時候也感謝部長可以比照美國跟日本把一些軍事營區到未來可以變成景點 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4264.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4272.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
再往推進一點點美國的這些幾個軍事的拍攝點甚至幫美國的國軍帶來一些還有日本都帶來很多非常高的觀光的產值光是咖啡、光是茶、光是お土産他們就其實增加很多收入是否我們稍後法條如果可以的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4287.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4288.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
剛剛講到無人機我是覺得好像不太對勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4318.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4331.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
兩間兩間各個研發結果也失敗了嘛所以延宕整個反制直升機的生產對不對那我是覺得現在變成經濟部找來的廠商然後呢再怎麼樣你世家裡面兩兩層 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4334.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4334.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
中科院委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4352.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4352.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
中央委員會總統委員會總統委員會總統委員會總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4376.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4382.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這些整合不出來不是沒有原因的到最後經濟不是說開放開放就是代理商進來他們根本不要研發就是代理商藍標我不管是研發還是怎麼樣但是國內一定要相對應的研發能力包含像是我們這幾年其實也要跟國軍也要跟總統府這邊還有國會這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4402.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4419.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
國機國造、國艦國造、潛艦資金資金資造那無人機這個資金這麼小很小、很小、很小在我們審查預算這樣看起來它的比例是非常輕的但是它不能不解決所以現在已經12月了我認為部長這邊是不是一個月以內 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4420.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4441.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
一個月﹚不要講一個月啦兩個禮拜以內至少要有一個方案出來那這個方案明年不要再等到夏天如果到明年八月的話國防部會罵到臭頭 一定會罵到臭頭包含我們國會也會有相對的連帶責任跟國民沒辦法交代所以是否請部長這邊好不好再一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4445.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4468.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
下個禮拜至少要把方案定下來,我不管它是哪裡做的,這我們都不管,而是在金門、在媽祖、我曾經服役的媽祖還有像是我們的澎湖等等的,無人機的反制系統它是需要在那裡我理解它也許看起來,也許感覺很小,但是對明星的安定來講,這個是很重要的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4469.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4487.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我們今天特別再次感謝就兩個提醒一個是七個法規四個命令公告是需要在一週內跟本委員會進行相對應的說明跟溝通不完上也沒關係那就是我們的工作我們的責任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4487.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4508.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
以及無人機的反制系統到一個禮拜以內要有方案了不能再這樣拖下去了因為我們那時候看預算這樣可能要真的要等到明年8月後才有辦法完成那接下來我們現在各黨團協商代表已簽名那我們現在散會再次感謝 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4522.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4551.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
中科院目前擁有的一個器材也有在研發 有沒有在研發?有 但是中科院部署的不是那一款中科院比較慷慨我瞭解了就把這一塊分給軍務商會一組管那你這禮拜以內能不能把這個方法很具體的呈現出來而且可以做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4552.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4558.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
他現在整個出了問題 據我所知兩家廠商我了解 這是他們的問題所以他的問題我們又幫他不了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4570.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4579.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
他當然要求 很簡單 我也要求這樣我們要有一個具體的做法那我終於現在做一個防疫性推薦支持外黨這可以啊 這也是個辦法 |