| IVOD_ID |
153299 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153299 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-15-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-29T13:01:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-29T13:10:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e13318d952b369f8d9247de1b7f2d659cc489711abfcd1df00fef621747a0e7dfbc9b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:01:18 - 13:10:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。） |
| gazette.lineno |
1135 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：（13時1分）謝謝主席。本席想邀請……我要稱副縣長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請劉部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
劉部長世芳：委員好。沒關係，我們都很熟識，沒問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝，恭喜副縣長、原台中縣的，也是副市長、高雄的，經歷非常多，也是同仁。部長，本席要跟你討論的是5月27號新竹市住宅大樓的問題，據聞是因為電纜線管線的問題，我們真的不忍心，我們消防員上樓搜救，當然難過的是兩名消防員發生了這樣的事情，因為他下樓的過程，據他們協會所說的是當他們下去的時候連五指都看不見。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
劉部長世芳：因為有毒煙，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：所以在這樣的情況之下，我們的消防人員在這麼困難的環境當中出現這樣的問題，我想有幾件事情可以去討論，也就是專業單位的調查、大樓的消防以及預警系統這一些相關的有沒有疏失，還有針對於他們的保命符就是氧氣瓶，它的氧氣量。很多消防隊員跟我講說老舊的有10公斤重，那很重的，他們穿那套衣服就已經很重了，又背10公斤，而且那個量還很少，現在科技進步，很輕才3公斤，它的量又可以增加。所以我們是不是應該檢視一下，全國目前的量到底夠不夠，還有在整個SOP流程當中，氧氣瓶已經有新的科技，我們應該預算要支持啊！他身上整套就已經10公斤了，而且這麼熱，我看我們的消防人員，帽子、面罩、衣服拿起來，整個身體都濕透了，我看得真的心都在淌血耶！所以我真的具體建議，消防人員保命的設備，至少他們的氧氣瓶，國家要他去救人如果連提供氧氣瓶都不夠、量都不夠，國家愧對這些消防人員啊！署長說明一下好嗎！ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
劉部長世芳：謝謝，我請署長來回應。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：好，署長說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
蕭署長煥章：謝謝委員這麼關心消防。目前的空氣瓶的量是以6.8公升這個量來處理，差不多6.9公斤，這個量我們現在很多都已經改成FRP氣瓶。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：現在很輕，那都才3公斤而已。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
蕭署長煥章：所以這個部分的調…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不用再背10公斤那麼重的。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
蕭署長煥章：對，這已經有調整，上個禮拜院長也特別核定個裝的汰…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：沒有啦，舊的也還有很多，你不要跟我說都已經改了，何時都已經改了？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
蕭署長煥章：它的計畫已經准了，我們給縣市自己去做什麼樣的汰換，個裝的汰換，如果需要的話，所以這個部分我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：「如果需要「？當然需要！部長，上任新作為啦，全面檢視啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
蕭署長煥章：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不要再說「如果需要」……不一定給他啦，不要這樣子啦，都已經發生這種情況了。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
蕭署長煥章：是，經費都已經確定。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我想部長也是仁心仁術的人，對不對？全面去檢討啦，你把專案報上來啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
蕭署長煥章：是，我們已經確定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我相信部長一定會全力支持，要是沒有，我跟高金委員一起到行政院，去替你要預算。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
蕭署長煥章：已經核定了。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：核定怎樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
蕭署長煥章：總共有19億元的經費要針對個裝、個人的裝備，剛才委員講的空氣瓶這個量如果說是有問題，它可以來做這方面的汰換、做調整，這個都已經確定額度跟金額，每個縣市都會有。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我請你做整體的一個檢討去盤查一下，這個書面資料給本席。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
劉部長世芳：好，軟硬體的部分都需要。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：第二個，我們的人進去伸手不見五指，就送去那個……現在的科技資訊，以前小林村因為斷了沒有辦法救，現在無人飛機可以去盤點看情況，到底位置在哪裡、聚焦在哪裡，我們是不是應該也要去檢討，可以導入科技的方式去救災？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
劉部長世芳：是，我完全同意楊委員所說的部分，用什麼樣的科技的方式來協助救災是非常重要。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？趕快預算給消防署，然後趕快去研擬，因為我從政以來打火兄弟是一直跟我站在一起，我也跟他們站在一起，這是城市英雄，我們一定要好好照顧，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
劉部長世芳：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你那個專案，第一個，科技要怎麼做；第二個，他們的裝備要怎麼去調整，你把書面資料給本席。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][1] |
第二個議題是碳費的問題，部長你剛上任，現在營造業不動產大家都好緊張，鋼鐵因徵收碳費而價格上漲，會間接影響到房價。我們說高房價，年輕人買不到房子很緊張，你們的數字很奇怪，碳費影響混凝土的增加成本是3.2%，鋼筋是2.8%，混凝土加起來是建築的30%，但是你們所提供的很奇怪，告訴你我的數字，以一般鋼筋混凝土建築而言，碳費對建築成本影響大概0.9，不致造成房價上漲，並呼籲……這是你們的……部長、部長，你有沒有在備詢？怪不得昨天國會改革要……你有沒有聽到我講的問題？是什麼問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
劉部長世芳：有，我現在在請教建築研究所有關碳費的部分，不管是鋼筋、混凝…… |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你現在告訴我對成本影響只有0.9%，不會影響…… |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
劉部長世芳：報告楊委員…… |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不可能的事情！我告訴你，沒關係，我告訴你，現在你們呼籲業者不要以碳費徵收為原則來哄抬物價，這個是對的，但是理事長告訴我們，淨零碳排，負責任的業者是自己去找，找什麼東西呢？針對綠建築標章，他們趕快去找、配對，混凝土要怎麼配對減碳，他們業者很負責任喔，所以這個加上來大概會是營業成本的兩成。你們說只有0.9%，部長，差距那麼大，你提出的碳費影響建築成本小於1%，這個數字跟實際上我們的業者是兜不起來的，而且影響甚大、差距很大，我請你也跟他們座談一下。我們是不是也來座談一下？因為有為的政府是，你的政策、你的數字是讓執行者可以執行，你同意這個論點吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
劉部長世芳：完全同意，我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：不然我們找一個時間來研討一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
劉部長世芳：我們那個不是研討，我們要開類似這樣子的一個研討會。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對呀。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
劉部長世芳：我讓建築研究所跟所有的業者一起來研討，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：跟業者、理事會，他們有代表性。好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
劉部長世芳：我也不完全認同所謂0.9%的這個部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：你要的時候你也通知本席，本席也要參加，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
劉部長世芳：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：近期趕快，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
劉部長世芳：好，我們到中部去的時候一定會通知委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對，你們大概多久會開會？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
主席：謝謝部長、謝謝署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：大概多久會開會？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
王所長榮進：我們馬上來處理，我們馬上來安排。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：到時一定要通知我們。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
王所長榮進：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
主席：時間也讓楊瓊瓔委員知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我再一個議題給他就好，30秒就好。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
主席：因為我們還有下一個會議，如果你要…… |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：我知道，謝謝。因為部長新到任，都更事業優惠貸款從2006年1月份上路迄今，額度是2,000億元，長達18年來只有幾件？59件。最後一次申請，2012年的金額是526.47億元，而且是承貸銀行的自有資金。所以部長，這個功課給你，為什麼你有都更的這個優惠貸款高達2,000億元，但是沒有人要跟你申請，你去討論…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
吳署長欣修：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼有錢而人家不跟你申請，原因在哪裡，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
吳署長欣修：這個我們…… |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
主席：署長，麻煩你用書面回應給…… |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼改善，你把書面資料給本席，來協助業者嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
王所長榮進：這個我們會找國發會談，錢編在它那邊。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：對，好不好？都不利用，2,000億不用，這個邏輯很奇怪！署長謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
主席：署長謝謝，我們用書面回應給楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：好不好，部長，把你們研議好的書面資料給本席。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
劉部長世芳：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
主席：非常謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的質詢。也謝謝部長，謝謝署長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][1] |
繼續請蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][2] |
何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][3] |
鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][4] |
黃仁、黃仁、黃仁委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][5] |
林德福、林德福、林德福委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][6] |
李昆澤、李昆澤、李昆澤委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[68][7] |
請吳琪銘召委質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
334 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-15-20 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
高金素梅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
麥玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
黃捷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
丁學忠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
徐欣瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
吳琪銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
陳培瑜 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
林月琴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
林倩綺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
255 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-29 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135102 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1135102_00011 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢 |
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1135102_00009 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.034 |
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6.715 |
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蕭主席蕭主席蕭主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.892 |
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本期要跟你討論的是5月27號新竹市這一個住宅大樓的這個問題那據聞是因為電纜線管線的這個問題那我們真的不忍心我們消防員上樓受救那當然難過的是兩名的消防員發生了這樣的事情因為他下樓下樓的過程那據他們協會所說的是當他們下去的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
專業單位調查大樓消防與預警系統相關疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
114.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
保密服就是他們的氧氣瓶他到底他的這個氧氣量很多的消防隊員跟我講老舊的10公斤很重的 他們穿衣服衫就一定很重的又賣10公斤而且那個量還很少現在科技進步很輕3公斤他的量又可以增加所以我們是不是應該去檢視一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
116.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
127.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
全國目前我們的量到底夠不夠還有在整個SOP流程當中我們的氧氣品 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
有新的科技我們應該要預算要支持啊你叫他已經整個身體就已經10公斤了而且這麼熱我看我們的消防人員喔沒辦法拿起來面罩拿起來衣服拿起來整張身體都淋上去我真的看得心都在淌血所以我真的具體建議我們的消防人員的設備保命的至少連那個他們的氧氣瓶 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
160.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
目前的空氣瓶的量是以6.8公升這個量來處理那差不多6.9公斤這個量我們現在很多都已經改成FRP的氣瓶 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在很輕鬆,那些都頭有3公斤而已,不用再10公斤那麼重的。最近上個禮拜院長也特別核定,各種的台灣,如果需要的話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
207.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
若沒有我跟高軍一起到行政院去聽你要預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
235.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
總共有19億的經費要針對各莊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
239.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那各種個人裝備：剛才委員講的：空氣瓶這個量：如果說是有問題：他可以來做這方面：來做調整：這個都已經確定了：額度跟金額：部長我請你做整體的一個：檢討：去盤查一下：這一個：第二個：我們的人進去：身手不見五指：那我們現在科技： |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
269.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
272.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
趕快去預算給消防署然後趕快去研擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
294.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
301.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
因為泡沫那天是我從政以來一直跟我站在一起我也跟他們站在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
302.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
328.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
議員議員議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
329.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
352.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
銅鐵徵收碳費價格上漲會間接影響到房價我們說高房價年輕人買不到房子很緊張但是你們的數字很奇怪碳費影響混凝土的這個增加成本是3.2 鋼金是2.8混凝加起來是建築的這個30%但是你們的提供很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
353.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
353.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
373.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你現在告訴我說影響的成本只有0.9% 不會影響 不可能的事情 我告訴你沒關係 我告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
389.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
395.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在你們會議業者不要以攤位徵收為原則來分台物價 這個是對的但是我們的理事長告訴我們 經營碳排 他們負責任的業者自己去找找什麼人呢 他們去找喔 找針對於綠建築標章他們趕快去找 配對 混凝土配對 要怎樣 減碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
423.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他們業者很負責任所以這個加上來大概會是營業成本的兩成你們說的只有0.9部長差距那麼大所以本席要請部長你提出的攤配影響建築成本小於1這個數字跟實際上我們的業者是兜不起來的而且影響甚大差距很大我請你也跟他們座談一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
440.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
李慧琼議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
460.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
487.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們馬上來處理我們馬上來安排馬上來安排馬上來安排我再一個議題給他就好30秒就好我知道謝謝都更的優惠因為部長新到喔部長都更事業的優惠貸款從2006年1月份上路你是2000億18年來只有幾件59件 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
511.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
金額最後一次申請2012年是526.47億而且是銀行貸自由資金那所以部長這個功課給你為什麼你有都更的這個優惠貸款高達2000億但是沒有人要給你申請你去討論為什麼有錢人家不給你申請原因在哪裡好不好你順便這樣給北京你怎麼改善給北京 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
534.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
550.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
楊瓊瓔 |