| IVOD_ID |
15309 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/15309 |
| 日期 |
2023-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-10-8-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
10 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
8 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2023-11-27T08:30:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2023-11-27T11:38:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:07:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc81e72998b98d036690a0be61fea1481846d53a332764a5351017e601a9cdf5805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2023-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查民進黨黨團擬具「立法院程序委員會組織規程第五條條文修正草案」案。【本案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具「行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。
三、審查委員吳玉琴等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第十條條文修正草案」案。
四、審查委員吳玉琴等17人擬具「勞動事件法部分條文修正草案」案。
五、審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「司法人員人事條例第四十條及第四十三條條文修正草案」案。
六、併案審查（一）委員張宏陸等20人擬具「法官法第七十七條及第八十條條文修正草案」及（二）委員黃世杰等16人擬具「法官法第七十七條、第七十八條及第八十條條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:30 - 11:38:00 |
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SPEAKER_08 |
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SPEAKER_08 |
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SPEAKER_08 |
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SPEAKER_08 |
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11287.73534375 |
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11291.26221875 |
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SPEAKER_01 |
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11288.71409375 |
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11288.86596875 |
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11291.14409375 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1774.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1801.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
報告委員會出席委員8人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議議事錄實現中華民國112年11月23日星期四上午9時至12時16分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員曾偉明、宗等12人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1802.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1828.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
列席委員陳委員焦華等二人列席官員司法院秘書長吳三龍等人主席林昭吉委員思明報告事項宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定討論事項繼續並按審查司法院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政院行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1831.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1843.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
決議一、防務部調查局組織法第五條條文修正草案報告及詢答完畢進行逐條審查第五條除將條文中副局長二人至三人修正為副局長三人外於照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1845.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1864.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本案審查委員吳琪銘据審查報告提請院會公決,不須交由黨團協商,因為討論時有零召集委員4名出席說明。二、刑事補償法部份條文修正草案等二案本案審查委員吳琪銘据審查報告提請院會公決,不須交由黨團協商,因為討論時有零召集委員4名出席說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1865.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1886.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
三、刑事補償法部分條文修正草案等三案進行逐條審查第一條不予修正維持現行條文第四條修正如下第四條補償請求之是由吸引受害人意圖遭致犯罪嫌疑而為下列誤導偵查或審判行為之一所致者受理補償事件之機關得不為補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1888.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1914.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
一、虛偽自白二、淹滅未照、變造或隱匿證據三、勾串共犯證人四、其他組織證明有頂替真正犯罪行為人之行為前項受害人之行為應有經合法調查之證據證明之第六條除將第二項條文中一倍至二倍修正為1.5倍至二倍外於照司法院行政院提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1915.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1943.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
增訂第六條之一、第六條之二、第三十五條之一及第四十條之一均不予增訂現行條文第七條照司法院行政院提案予以刪除第八條除將第三款修正為三受害人經命拒保後逃亡或藏匿故意干擾證據調查或其他事有而可歸則外予照司法院行政院提案通過第十條、第十七條、第十八條及第二十一條均照司法院行政院提案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1944.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1968.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
增定第二十七條之一修正如下:「第二十七條之一司法院應予補償之決定確定後進行必要之調查或研究分析形式誤判原因。第四十一條不予採納通過附帶決議項本案審查文具擬具審查報告提醒院會公決不須交由黨團協商院會討論時由林昭吉文思明出席說明。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1969.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1996.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
以上各案條次引述條文部分文字及法制用資用與授權主席及議事人員整理。次委員諮詢時要求提供相關資料或以出面答覆者請相關機關請訴送交個別委員及本會。宣讀完畢。好稍後帶足三人的時候我們再行確定現在我們介紹應邀列席的官員那司法院我們的黃玲倫副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1999.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2021.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
全序部朱南賢政務次長行政院人事行政總署李秉舟副人事長立法院議事處高百祥處長法治局廖曼麗副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2024.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2041.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
勞動部勞動條件及就業平等師專門委員王雅芬海洋委員會人事處康仁芳處長我們現在接著介紹我們到場的委員我們曾明中曾委員曾總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2047.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2064.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
本次議程討論事項排審立法院程序委員會組織規程以及第五條條文修正草案等六案會議在提案說明報告及詢答後再進行逐案處理現在進行提案說明及報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2077.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2093.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在提案人均未在場我們接續請機關代表報告請司法院副秘書長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2097.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2111.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席、各位委員、各位先進首先感謝貴委員會讓司法院有機會來就相關主管部分跟各位做個報告那麼今天跟司法院執黨相關的部分是包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2112.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2137.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們委員吳琪銘等17人擬具《勞動事件法》這個部份條文修正案那這部份其實是有鑒於原來的條文是規定成《性別工作平等法》那目前我們相關法制的名稱已經改成《性別平等工作法》那麼我們這一個法只配合把這個名稱修正那這個本院對委員的這個提案我們是競表贊同那麼其次是張宏祿 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2138.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2161.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
委員等二十人擬具了包括司法人員人事條例第四十條跟四十二條以及法官法七十七條八十條七十八條那這幾個相關的條文的這個修正這幾個條文都是把目前規定為公務人員退休撫恤法那因為我們現在公務員制度已經修正所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2161.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2162.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2182.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2201.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
另外還有新的一個法例叫做公務人員個人專務制退休之前撫恤法那這個制度跟原來的退休之前撫恤法有相當的這個落差也是不同的法我們是建議說為求明確是不是在原修正條文的公務人員退休之前撫恤法再加上或 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2202.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2221.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
公務人員個人專戶制退休之前撫恤法這樣可以更完整那其他部分就本院執掌我們都竟表贊同尊重大院的這個決定報告完畢好謝謝我們黃副秘書長再請全序部我們的次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2224.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2239.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
召集委員：各位委員：各位女士：各位先生：關於立法委員吳玉群等18人所提公交人員保障法第10條條文修正草案因《性別平等工作法》部分條文修正草案已於112年8月16日經總統公佈實施並自112年8月18日起修正名稱為《性別平等工作法》 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2246.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2267.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
原配合將公交人保養法第十條第七項鎖定性別工作評審法,名稱修改為性別評審工作法,本部競表支持。以上報告進行指教。好,謝謝我們的朱次長。那再請我們行政院人事行政總處副人事長報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2269.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2288.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天答應第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議本總是呈邀列席來報告如下為了確保行政院的組織調整的作業順利推動行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例110年12月29日總統令公佈名稱是修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2296.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2318.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
行政院功能業務與組織調整條例並刪除了施行期限五委員齊銘等21位委員針對上開條例擬具的第十九條的修正草案將原行政院海岸巡防署所屬軍職人員及各機關依法組織法規聘任的人員得准用本條例有關權力保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2319.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2337.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
的規定其辦法由行政院定之修正為原海洋委員會海巡署所屬禁止人員及各機關依組織法規聘任人員得准用本條例有關權力保障的規定其辦法由行政院定之這樣的修正我們是考量這個條例主要是保障原機關人員在組織被 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2340.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2367.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
經檢或者整併或者改例的時候可以適用這個權力保障的規定,尚非針對改制或機關的人員給予保障。因此我們建議維持現行的第十九條的條內容來保障原機關,就是行政院海岸巡航署在107年4月28隨同移轉到海洋委員會海巡署的這些金屬人員的權利。那條例的名稱還是維持行政院功能業務與組織調整條例。 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2369.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2396.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以上報告請各位參考指教。謝謝。好,謝謝李夫人司長。機關代表報告完畢。其餘書面報告內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄。提案說明及機關報告以現在只有機關報告進行完畢。那現在開始詢答由於本次會議排審法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2396.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2413.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是配合現行機關法律名稱所作的修正內容較為單純且於詢答後及接續進行法案的實質審查討論條文時仍有機會充分地表達意見因此詢答時間本會委員為6分鐘非本會委員為3分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2418.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2446.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
均不再延長上午10時30分,截止發言登記。那請登記第一位我們的曾明中委員發言。好,謝謝。謝謝昭偉。今天審查的相關法案基本上相對單純本席大方向支持。接著請教司法院副秘書長。我們在11月10號 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2448.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2451.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
也是在這一間會議室協調刑法第185條之三 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2458.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2482.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有關獨駕的相關條文因為這段期間發生了很多不幸的個案現在酒駕划得很重那已經產生嚇阻的效果那獨駕的部分其實也非常的普遍那近期又發生不少的個案所以當天11月10號經過協商之後草也一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2488.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2494.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
都沒有意見。那請問事後是不是司法院有不同意見?謝謝。跟委員報告齁其實當天在委員會其實大方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2501.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2529.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
大家都是一致的因為委員大概講那就是說規範的方式規範的方式當然當天會議裡面大家是有表示那我們是原來的建立就是說那麼因為擔心將來執行會有困難怕太過原來規定太過模糊那麼那個毒品毒品的種類七百多種那麼到底什麼情形然後不是每一樣都有都有那個所謂的這個預值 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2530.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2547.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
然後原來的規範甚至由民間單位自己去規定預指將來可能都會有說是不是符合法律預指的這個質疑所以當天是有表示這個意見但是當然也尊重大院的這個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2548.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2570.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
事後司法院當然這部分是大院的這些職長我們也沒有再表示什麼但是當時在會場的時候我們確實有想說希望方向其實大家都認同那是怎麼樣規範的技術會比較妥適就是如此跟委員報告所以司法院事後對刑法180條之三獨駕你們事後又表達不同意見對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2576.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2596.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
委員報告我們一貫就是希望說規範的方式能夠符合的這個意旨在會場上面也跟委員有做報告那麼當然這是大院的這些職權我們是當然要尊重但是我們一貫的想法就是說將來這些法律都是法官要用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2596.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2597.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2622.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2624.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2652.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2667.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那司法院事後又表達不同意見我對顧民長從現在開始所有司法院的法案黨團、國民黨團都拉下來協商一套辦理你們都不重視獨駕啊獨駕這麼重要你剛剛講的問題已經炒了一個會期啦那一天也取得共識啊那事後又還回民進黨還回 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2685.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2713.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那為什麼要協商?所以我跟你說明啊刑法185條之三獨駕不過你不重視第一個司法院的預算我全部保留第二個你所有的法案全部保留好第二個懲戒法院前院長叫什麼名字? |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2715.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2718.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2741.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2765.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那現在他的性騷擾這個案司法院處理的情況怎麼樣可不可以具體說明跟委員報告那他已經被那個平建委員會平建委員會在在座進行那平建委員會也開過一兩次的會那我們其實當然外界我相信平建委員會也 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2766.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2767.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2787.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2814.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
說實話他們自己在運作的時候司法院基於法官法的意旨是沒有辦法對他做任何行政的指示的這是當初法官法希望這一個評鑑委員會就是走向外部監督所以絕大部分司法院不容許可以講是不容許司法院去干涉到這個所以但是我相信他們的委員應該也會體會到外界對他們的這個期待謝謝顧秘書長我們要講的冠冕堂皇 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2815.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2829.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他們這麼久的期間有符合外界的期望嗎?副委長跟委員報告啦吼那我相信他們委員會應該也了解因為就跟我跟你確定他們了解? |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2830.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2853.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
因為我相信那因為現在外部對這一個事件其實有很多這個評論那他們委員會因正常情形是應該在兼顧到社會的這個期待跟案件當事人相關的這些的法律程序上面的這個遵守他還是要去遵守所以我們司法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2854.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2876.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
對這一部分當然我們也期待但是我們不能去去對一個當初立法就是要求他們獨立運作希望他們可以由外部的人去產生不要由司法院去過度的介入這也是這也是沒有過度介入啦吳民長你連懲戒法院書記館長懲戒法院的第2號人物都沒有辦好保障他基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2884.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2888.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2913.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2914.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
誰建議?司法院的誰建議? |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2928.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2928.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
司法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2949.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2950.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2969.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2971.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
吳琪銘,基本上我很尊重你的專業但是你跟他講了一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2999.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3023.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我一點都不放心。一點都不放心。一點都不放心。謝謝。好,謝謝曾明洲委員。那由於議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢,尚未確定,現在先確定議事錄。請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏?好,沒有錯誤遺漏。議事錄確定。下一位我們請鄭運鵬委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3026.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3055.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
主席、各位首長、各位同仁大家好。今天審查七個病案的法案,我先請教一下這個立法院的高處長。欸,處長請教一下,就是我們很少審到立法院自己的修法。對。但是從上次這個國際事務處的修法裡面我有提醒,就是院長,院沒有,立法院沒有提案權嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3056.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3073.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
院長、副院長也沒有特殊的提案,對不對?那這一次的提案是民進黨黨團聯署那我想請上一次國際事務處的修法你記不記得是各黨團都有簽名共同聯署還是也是民進黨團聯署? |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3074.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3074.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3098.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3118.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這些把它修正掉這個是一定沒有問題的裡面有沒有那種從其他委員會調動的沒有他就是單純做名稱變動沒有做實質那像這樣的話應該不會有各黨團不一致的問題吧因為那時候是在草野協商院長有請各黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3118.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3123.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
一、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3148.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3175.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我覺得會怕有些委員會覺得你好像做面子給特定政黨這樣也不是很好之前有一些機關的修正那其他委員沒意見但是譬如說他們是請我來提案他們覺得你讀後徵運棚也不是很好我是覺得今天當然沒有這個爭議但是我認為以後建立一個慣例也好不然你看立法院自己沒有提案權都要拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3176.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3179.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3204.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3222.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
市長我請教一下現在對於今天的修正會跟我們的專戶制有關對不對?退府新制的個人專戶制有關?有有有所以就把那個名字加進去嗎?對對對那對於法官比較不同的是法官跟我們的高階將領一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3224.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3236.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
會有這是終身職的差別一般的文官沒有對不對對所以他會有兩個制度一個是退休制度一個是退養金的制度就是你是終身職 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3237.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3240.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3262.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3283.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
跟委員報告,如果像委員講的,如果說是選憂鬱的話,那麼其實他就不是退休退養的問題了。那麼是一樣是,但薪資要減三分之一,就是依照法官法減三分之一,那減三分之一之後,其實他已經減下來已經比他領退休金。 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3284.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3284.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3309.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3338.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
最高百分之一百四的退行金二點四但是跟委員報告說最主要是因為法官的薪資結構裡面他大部分的薪資都是所謂的專業家籍本縫很少如果用本縫當初法官法加百分之一百四是因為說法官薪資結構的特殊性他絕大部分都是不計一般公務員不計那個極度退休金的專業家籍所以才折成是退行金 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3339.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3367.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我相信這個養年的制度不管你是憂鬱的退養或者退休應該大家不是有意見你不能讓法官想要在案件裡面服務的過程裡面去東撈西撈這個是一定要大家對這沒意見不過剛您講的就是說如果你以憂鬱那個百分之四十一百四十這個來看的話會比退休金少所以某種程度也是鼓勵你退休嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3368.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3395.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
對嗎?那未來的法官新進的法官以後是專務制嘛專務制就跟他在這段過程裡面提撥的以前的是確定給付他有他的定額你會算得出來說他領退休70歲以後退休開合那他當然就會往退休那邊走但是如果是未來專務制他有可能遇到一個比較長期的全球性的經濟風暴有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3396.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3422.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
他如果這樣算回來那個加上百分之四十的憂鬱他覺得好像我繼續待這邊服務我領這個憂鬱的待遇比較好啊你怎麼改觀你今天修正完了之後就會遇到這個問題嗎跟委員報告齁那也謝謝委員的這個提醒因為我們目前的講是以目前的這個制度這個情形那改成專務制之後那 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3423.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3423.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3435.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3440.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3463.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3463.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
謝宜鳳委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3493.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3493.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
司法院副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3512.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3515.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具:「行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例第十九條條文修正草案．則不予審查�� |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3533.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3556.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
是不是也有盤點的情況那現在目前各地方政府的情況是如何跟委員報告目前我們這整個新制尤其這個行政輔導先行以前叫做漁犯現在變成行政輔導先行之後制度是很大的改變沒有錯那我們也知道說各地方政府也要去調適要很多的這個那我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3557.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3586.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
就我個人所知我們那個司法院邵家廷持續不斷的跟地方政府在做協調當然現在他們反映出來這些問題跟那個盤點的這些詳細的東西我手上目前是沒有這個資料如果說委員們垂行我知道我們是持續在開會中如果說委員是不是地方政府認為目前的人力以及相關的是不是有至愛難行的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3587.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3606.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們因為法律規定了我們就要必須去執行所以我們的邵家庭有持續跟地方在做溝通協調那他們的問題可能向委員所反映的我目前手上是沒有資料我之前看到相關似乎是他們有反映一些問題在所以我們也在想辦法或者是協助客服 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3610.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3637.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
如果說委員們委員關切這部分的話那是不是容我回去我們去把它彙整相關的東西跟委員做個報告對因為其實我們根據就是說警政署截至9月各縣市政府少年輔導會更接到了警察機關移送的有343件就是這些曝險的邊緣少年的案件但是其中有246件 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3639.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3639.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3658.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3681.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那我們知道其實吸毒其實要戒毒就是非常困難尤其是這些少年在這麼年輕的情況下那他們就接觸了毒品那對於未來的影響以及會不會擴及到就是說其他的就是周邊的因為畢竟少年都是我們的同學都有同才的效應那會不會擴及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3684.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3688.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3709.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3710.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3733.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3734.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3761.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3762.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
一、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3788.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3789.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3813.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3813.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3831.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3854.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
因為我知道說你們在12月19號即將要跟行政院舉辦少年事件政策協商的平台會議但是我其實是想要知道說你們在協助各地方政府在就是說建構這個系統的時候以及建構就是說怎麼樣子協助我們這些吸毒的少年怎麼樣回復到正常的生活的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3855.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3878.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
到底你們有沒有訂定一個確確的時程以及確確的就是目標那總是即便是你現在手邊沒有相關的資料但是你應該要給予民眾給予我們各地方政府因為就是說中央政府要給他們最後的就是說可以協助他們來執行的因為畢竟在 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3878.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3881.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我認為你以地方的支援當然就是中央跟地方要共同來辦理這樣的事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3900.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3901.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3915.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3934.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
跟委員報告法律就我所知法律本身有規定一定的時期那個那個準備的這些時間像那個剛才所講的專家參審那至於說跟行政機關的這一部分的會長說那個時程可能要回去檢視一下相關的這些我們討論這些的這個記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3937.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3954.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
現在可能還沒有辦法跟委員報告說明確的這個期程是什麼時候但是我們很積極的在進行這個是事實那後續跟委員的這個報告我們會依照委員的這個指示看看這個期程到底原來我們目前的規劃是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3956.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3958.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3983.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3984.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4009.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4010.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
王雅芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4028.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4046.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
主計總署在本月23日公布的人力運用調查報告顯示,有近兩成 的就業人口月薪不到3萬元,淪為低薪一族,無獨有偶,勞動部在最新的無薪假統計也在隔日出爐。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4047.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4075.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
除實施人數仍稱在萬人的高檔更有一家電子零組件業者因訂單減少首度實施通報近200人放無薪假再加上牛仔褲大廠年新日前宣布官場重創700名員工的生計今天的媒體也報導竹科今天也有一家電子廠關閉官場大概有200人失業 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4077.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4100.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那麼所以依據主計總署公布的人力運運調查我們今年五月全體受僱者的平均每月收入大概四萬一千六百多元月薪不到三萬元的為一百八十四萬人佔大概百分之二十月入三萬到五萬的大概五百二十四萬人佔百分之五十六點四三 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4102.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4118.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
約五萬元以上的大概220.7萬佔23.76%也就是說在勞工的薪資上顯示出嚴重的貧富差距卻多數人的薪資目前仍不及全體收穫者平均收入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4119.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4122.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具:「行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例第十九條條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4137.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4158.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
謝謝委員對勞動的薪資還有貧富差距這部分提出這些數據跟推詢很抱歉是因為我代表的是勞動條件及就業平等司那我今天是因為我們吳玉芊委員所以這個議題你不熟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4159.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4159.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我再問一個議題,今年3月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4177.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4200.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
有網友在公民政策網路的參與平台提案週休三日最終獲得5736人復議支持通過提案提案人認為增加休假日可以減少員工的離職率提升工作效率並增加陪伴家人的時間提升生活的品質擺脫上班族的Blue Monday的夢夜 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4201.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4226.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
網友的提案訴求以增進生活幸福感為出發點但這項公民提案在行政院召集相關部會、民間團體討論後在6月26日遭到否決當然行政院表示目前尚未有其他國家的公事部門全面實施週休三日缺乏相關的經驗或統計分析數據可參考判斷對政府的運作效能會產生實際的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4230.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4245.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
而我們中央研究院的經濟研究所的一位陳信研究員對於行政院會有這樣的回應表示不意外,他的理由是從過往的經驗來看,台灣的勞動政策不可能走在太前面,比起縮短工時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4246.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4250.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我希望勞動部能做很清楚、詳盡的一個規劃讓我們勞工的薪資能夠提高、縮小貧富的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4276.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4297.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
法官的不當行為連環報司法制審機制何在我舉三個目前最新的一個案例最高行政法院目前審理一起陸海空軍事關服役條例發現一省臺北高等行政法院法官周泰德沒參與辯論且參與審判另一名法官彭康凡則在延遲辯論筆錄簽為審判長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4299.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4327.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這都違反我們刑事送法188條關法官非參與裁判基礎之辯論者不得參與裁判的規定這是其中一件另外,司令地院民事庭書信法官在16日在司法院內部網站法官論壇指同庭庭長陳章榮違法陳章榮拒絕在判決書上簽名對他刁難、霸凌司令地院在10月20日召開自律委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4328.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4351.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這一次的會議分為兩派立場。較資深的法官認為評議尚未完成,庭長並未違規,而是學妹公然挑戰學長。另一年輕派的法官則認為嚴實辯論終結,受命陪席法官與陳章榮庭長進行評議。三人討論判決結果,且投票結果為邱書信兩位法官2比1。 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4352.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4366.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
當天便已完成評議並作成結論：那書信法官才回去撰寫判決但經過14天陳庭長卻不認帳宣判當天他拒絕在判決書上簽名違反法院組織法第105條 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4367.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4377.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
另外一件則是新北立院民事庭法官李昭榮任職板橋檢疫庭的時候,懲判侵權行為損害賠償案件,主動要求當事人停止訴訟,並告知在停止訴訟期間屆滿前,請書記官提醒當事人具狀續刑訴訟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4387.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4406.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
沒想到法官在因為案子後來陳審法官換人沒有去告出後來接的法官造成吳姓原告於四個月內未遂行訴訟結果訴訟終結司法院人事評委會決議處分口頭告誡警告 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4407.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4430.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
上面三則都是我們最近一個月內有關司法院有關法官違反法官職務行使職權不當的報導了對於法官違反職務上的義務待於執行職務或嚴刑不檢現行法官法有相關非法作為懲戒與監督法官的依據但是從上述案件我們看到法官違背職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4431.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4458.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不當行使職權那我們司法院的審議委員會做出了決議來看掌管法官個案評鑑的司法評鑑委員會並無法有效監督與淘汰不適任的法官而且李昭榮法官的案件是我們法官法新法上任三年以來第一件也是目前唯一一件人民請求成立的案件但司法院卻僅給予口頭告誡是否是輕輕的放下 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4459.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4481.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以這樣是不是我們會造成外界對於說司法根本沒有自省啊?民主黨你的看法如何?跟委員報告齁那先講剛才委員所提最後一件李昭榮的這案件李昭榮案件其實是請求評鑑那評鑑評鑑是我們司法院是依照評鑑會的這個他們已經決議認為說認為說雖然說他有不當 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4487.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4488.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4503.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4506.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4529.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4546.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這一個的結果其實是法官評鑑委員會他的那個結果而不是...請問一下就是說我是覺得這個法官真的是自己假假的啦我們很少看到實務上有法官告訴當事人說你你去這個先停止訴訟四個月之後我會通知你去行訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4547.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4570.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以這個怎麼會去這樣子去指揮訴訟呢我告訴你我們在律師懲戒委員會就是律師如果沒有幫當事人去行訴訟那會移送懲戒的那這個案子當然是指示說我們由這個我們法官評鑑委員會去做一個告誡的一個而沒有去送這個懲戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4571.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4599.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
但我還是希望說我們的內審的機制要做的可能確定一點這一件真的我覺得蠻離譜法官怎麼會去指揮訴訟去告訴當事人而且說他自己主動要去告訴他到時候去刑訴訟這樣是很大的風險以上謝謝謝謝委員提醒我想所有的法官應該都會這一件案件會引以為戒因為委員是專家對啊這個很奇怪好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4601.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4620.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4621.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4647.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
當然我們知道是希望這個行政機關跟我們這個人民能夠了解條件的好處對於各種類型的這樣的一個條件都能夠抱持更開放的態度也希望行政機關和人民能夠善加利用這是紓解送援最好的一個解決方法那當事人在行政訴訟條件制度中尋得具有共識的解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4648.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4668.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
則不斷減輕行政法院案件的負擔提高我們訴訟的效率那我們也知道經過這個兩兆這個能夠直接針對認為我們行政機關哪一個部分是不當的處分這個爭點我們希望可以很快的釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4669.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4696.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那也使我們的行政機關瞭解民眾不服你這個決定的真正原因來避免紛爭再燃民眾也可以避免花費這個過多的訴訟成本達到三贏的局面但是我們行政訴訟法我們第228條之二的規定那他是要求說當事人就訴訟標的具有處分權且這個調解 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4698.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4715.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
無礙公益的維護者行政法院得在訴訟系數中經當事人合議將事件一復調解但是因為被告往往都是行政機關人民提起行政訴訟 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4716.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4745.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
但是被告的機關在我服務公職36年我們很清楚在有行政訴訟這樣的一個情況那行政機關常常會說沒關係啊等判決結果以後我們再說我們就不太願意去面對這個要有調解那因為本席有遇到一個陳情案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4746.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4751.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4774.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4799.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
當事人提起要調解那法官要詢問行政機關你要不要調解行政機關說那我們回去問問看問了以後就沒消息了那因為他們都不願意面對因為這個是常常是首長在決定的那這個承辦人他不願意面對而且他也無權去 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4800.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4801.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4832.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4832.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
則不允許審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4848.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4848.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4877.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4894.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這叫不負責任的公務員的態度其實我們發現公務員真的是很消極那如果是你做這樣的一個處分那民眾是受損害的一方他當然很care他自己的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4894.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4895.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4916.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4929.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
為了要紓解送援我覺得要先行放到先行調解然後那個真的調解無效我們再來進行訴訟程序才真正的能夠紓解送援 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4931.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4931.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4961.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4962.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4976.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5005.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我對這個很有期待好不好就是一定要讓這個先行程序當然真的進行到調解程序調解程序真的速度很快針對問題而不是在繞圈子因為你知道訴訟程序律師寫了很多的這個答辯的內容或者陳述意見的內容我相信對法官來講也很痛苦是不是好我還有一個問題就是我們很多案件起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5006.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5012.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
已經三年了都還不願意啟動這些訴訟審判的程序。 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5013.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5014.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5043.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5070.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
已經要三年三週年紀念了為什麼都還沒有還沒有進行到審判程序究竟是為了什麼是要無限期嗎我想這個部分還是要請副名長這邊回去再幫我繼續追查好不好這民眾一直在追問說哎呀不相信你們司法改革啦你們對這種這種案件都不會都太消極了都都沒有動作我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5071.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5072.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5089.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5112.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那個湯惠珍委員說公務人員是不是太過消極那我想請問一下我們今天是司法院副秘書長對不對副秘書長最近有兩件事情先講一下我覺得那個比較嚴重的那個我們法院是不是有那個民眾查詢機 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5115.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5134.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
最近竟然發生將近一千個個案就是個案外泄的問題這到底是什麼樣的狀況民眾查詢機本來應該是要給予民眾一些相關的便利讓他們可以去查詢資訊結果他查詢之後發現個資都外泄 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5139.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5140.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
跟委員報告齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5161.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5184.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那民眾查刑局確實是方便如委員所所垂詢的確實方便民眾去可以再進去像服務處我們服務中心那邊可以很快的去查到這一件案件怎麼宣判的這個主文所以他也是委外那他這個系統本身並沒有跟我們直接跟我們的內網也就是我們比較經過內網去聯繫所以當初是 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5188.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5213.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
委外之後那發生情形就是在四月份的那一個上傳因為我們上傳那個系統被駭客那破解他的密碼然後把上四月份上傳的這個筆數那其實那個主文全部那個那一包裡面全部是二十幾萬上傳的那個主文本身大部分的主文是本來就大家都可以看了所以沒有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5213.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5241.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
沒有什麼秘密可言但是確實像委員所講的這二十幾萬筆裡面因為關鍵字關鍵字的這個電腦關鍵字的的一些的瑕疵的問題導致說有有幾個幾件有幾十件然後判決那個判決上傳然後另外有些的主文裡面包含說當事人的姓名當事人的姓名跟書生年月日 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5243.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5252.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
還有人家未成年子女的名字都通通都被外洩 這不是很扯嗎 那請問一下我們這個委外多少錢 一年多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5254.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5256.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那你們還是用原來的廠商嗎?這樣的廠商還可以再用嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5273.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5273.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5289.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5289.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5317.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5321.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
能夠比較詳細的資料提供給我們委員會提供給我們辦公室好嗎對而且還有你們還有你們未來改正因為這個只是你這個這個查詢機民眾查詢機而已那未來我們還有更多的我們從南到北這麼多的這個審判中的這些文字還有資料我們會擔心就是不要變成說這個變成是一個大的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5347.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5367.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
另外你們最近也發生最高行政法院也12天內被發生兩起不到兩個禮拜發生兩起就是最後你的法官的名字跟言辭辯論的法官是不一樣的是不是你們也是解釋為這是內部的一個失誤大家覺得這失誤太低級了怎麼會有這樣的失誤是人為失誤還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5377.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5380.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
還是程序上還是電腦失誤?查清楚了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5381.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5409.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
跟委員報告我們這一部分的這個瞭解其實人為在送卷我們之前也有他們那個那個法院部分也有做說明就是就是因為量多了然後書記官的這個量多了然後簽名的時候沒有注意看所以導致說說沒有核對然後去簽名因為他常常都是開完庭以後才會去做簽名那你開完庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5410.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5411.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5437.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5463.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這兩件跟委員報告這兩件案件最高行政法院就認為說那原始的訴訟程序可能有違物的地方所以就廢棄了但是我們跟委員報告我們事後也覺得說這個作業的過程中是可以透過電腦系統的防呆機制來做優化的所以我們現在已經做好了一個新的一個防呆的改進那麼今天如果發生簽錯名字的時候電腦系統就會提醒說 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5466.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5468.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以你這部好好笑欸你現在才弄一個防呆機制就是原來之前都很呆啦是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5485.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5499.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
議員議員議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5499.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5500.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
謝謝王文威委員下一位請江永昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5529.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5533.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
謝主席先就教於這個司法院今天是副秘書長來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5535.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5563.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我說其實有關於AI學判決但是其實你們有兩個部分一個是事實型的模式事實上是用量型因子去做這個歸納整理另外一個是評價型的也就是說他這個審酌自由是寫滿哪一款的這個量型的這個東西但是其實我知道你們一開始新聞稿也是對外面講優點的時候包括資料更新、機動調整、提供進階、智慧學習等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5564.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5593.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
你把它放在是職業法官跟國民法官要使用就外界害怕因為現在畢竟我們還是一個人為的社會嘛大家說你現在就直接交給AI但我不知道啦經過那個預算審查之後你們現在到底是要把它卡掉還是要繼續進行不知道不過仔細讀你們所寫出來的這個新聞稿或提供的資料你是這樣寫喔陸續以後會陸續開放給檢察官律師及一般民眾使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5594.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5618.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那既然全體國人或者是法律各界對你們這麼沒信心的時候我跟你講其實在美國啊我舉一個國家要美國好了啦Case Test我不曉得你知不知道這個東西美國湯森路特集團他去收購收購這個AI智慧系統他提供給他有用訂閱者喔這個給一般民眾或者法律專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5620.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5646.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
從免費到基礎到進階基礎跟進階就會有收費這個想法你可以導過來試試看你知道嗎一旦人民覺得說因為說一句實在話法院判決對不對案子那麼多那相關的法條那麼多對不對然後其實你知道嗎我們各機關相關的行民法什麼的非常非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5647.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5658.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
也有一些法律研究的資料有時候你先讓民眾去試而且你還不用司法院完全組織找法務部找立法院一起來立法院自己也有突出系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5659.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5663.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5689.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5708.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
跟委員報告那確實現在外界很關心這個我們原來認為說AI然後要嘗試的去比較智慧的去輔助裁判那目前我們知道說大家非常的這個有關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5709.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5724.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那其實原來只是一個初步只是一個初步的一個比較低階的這些運用所以我們編的預算也沒有很多陳吳大院講說這些錢怎麼可能做到真的外國的這個AI寫判決那一開始也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5725.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5725.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5741.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5741.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我現在回頭過其實現在一般民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5767.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5794.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
光是查一個阿果豬有什麼又會稅率或者說某人犯了什麼罪在刑法上牽連到的法條有多少其實你回過頭來你先建立人民使用嘛還不用你司法院獨自獨自餒對不對還可以說拜託阿跟行政院各部會這樣跨起來來做這幫助會非常大啦立法院也要協助阿我說調整這個方向先建立信心但我這是有根據的因為國外人家是從民間先做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5795.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5820.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好,但我繼續講,這個好處就多了今天立法院省治理的組織規程我回頭就叫立法院今天也是這個議事處處長問一下,那我之前就講一個綜合立法我有提綜合立法,你知道綜合立法嗎?不知道?還是你們今天立法院有誰來要代打? |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5821.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5849.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們局裡面是寫綜合立法的評估報告不管是彰顯立法政策、促進法律、自信、完整其實我在講啦光是比方說立法院一大堆立法委員就沒辦法也要去提營養法案了對不對就檢察署上面不要再掛法院光是這個哇輪流提提案每個都算分數不能怪我們啊但是如果有一個我剛剛講啦AI系統不只給人民用啊給立法院用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5849.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5850.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5867.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5889.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
只要你是名詞有改的、有剔除的、或者該廢止的,I Google下去。誰來提案?執政黨在立法院有黨團也可以負責提案,又一次把它處理掉。因為你們給的無法綜合立法的理由,你們雖然去看了日本有很多個好處,如果法案政策有一致性的、法案職區目的相同的、連結成一個體系的,並且如果在國會是同一個委員會, |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5891.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5908.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
在座的你們有寫這個去參考人家的體系的但是你們寫出困難啊你們寫的困難就是說哇提案或審議的幕僚作業很吃重你們說提案機關萬一長的敏感性的條文會跟著通過這也不行啊聯席審查會想效率欸你靠AI啊你可以靠AI啊啊不就不就把你覺得你學的那些缺點能夠有人來彌補啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5920.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5933.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
會建立信心欸一次有很多那種該綜合立法的就是有爭議的困難度高的或者是其實是改名詞的或廢紙的解決啦怎麼會吃重 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5935.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5952.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
實在科技來到這個地步了連AI模擬判決我這樣講司法院一定會抗議的我說沒有沒有啦你們是先生成後面還要先判斷有罪沒罪再生成還要用結合規則啦你們會去解釋這個我現在就講給立法院聽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5953.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5967.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
包括今天我就說一句實在話今天我們的這個組織規程要把蒙藏委員會刪除那如果你有AI的話我說連這個這麼單純的一個組織規程要動那你有AI一下嗎你AI一下之後你會發現什麼東西你知道蒙藏委員會是沒有啦蒙藏業務沒有了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5976.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6003.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我再講一次吼,蒙藏委員會沒有了阿,蒙藏業務也沒有了阿,的嗎?蒙藏委員會,蒙藏業務,蒙藏業務去哪裡?立法院吳琪銘的單位回答我一下,蒙藏業務去哪裡了?主席沒有人回答捏。蒙藏業務去哪裡了?誰要回答我?今天不知道要修,蛤?組織規程。 路委會阿。好啦我來回答嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6005.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6032.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
錄委會說你盟戰委員會六個人來是來做情勢修正及研判如果外交部說沒有啦盟戰委員會裡面的盟戰業務來到外交部的部分是人才培育人到援助蒙古、俄羅斯還有那個外蒙古這樣子大部分的業務跑去哪裡以文化的性質文化的性質盟戰文化的性質跑去教育文化委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6033.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6060.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
去交易文化委員會啊那請問喔蒙藏委員會沒有了但蒙藏業務還在而且大部分跑去交易文化委員會的時候那今天是該在我知道你要在內政委員會當中把蒙藏文會刪除把蒙藏兩個字刪除那你要不要在交易文化委員會當中把蒙藏業務放進來該是什麼道理不該是什麼道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6063.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6067.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我沒有覺得該或不該,但我要問你們什麼道理?能回答嗎?能回答嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6075.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6101.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝委員的諮詢。立法院法制局。那針對於那個立法院程序委員會組織規程第五條針對各個委員會相對應的部會跟業務那因為這部分我們是針對目前就是各個行政機關業務調整來做修正那至於像委員諮詢到的有關於蒙藏據說他業務性質是在內政或是說在教育委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6102.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6118.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那我覺得這比較涉及到整個立法政策的決定所以我們尊重委員的提案權我不是苛責啦 這個說明不是說明啦 這個說明讀起來是沒有內涵的啦就是業務的移轉沒有內涵 這個說明只能說什麼文字增什麼文字減 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6119.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6133.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
其實我看修正條文跟看現行條文我知道這黨團的提案你當然就可以知道現行條文跟修正條文哪些字有增刪但是說明欄不是要寫說增刪的理由嗎?說明欄其實沒有在寫這個所以待會如果要逐條的時候再回答我最後再回頭再來問副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6148.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6172.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
檢察官助理沸沸揚揚我回頭再來審視法官助理請問大法官助理他設置在司法院協助大法官他是因治還是得治因治人員還是得治人員法官助理放在法院協助法官他是因治人員還是得治人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6174.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6201.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
跟委員報告齁如果說法院認為他沒有因為我們目前是法官都有助理啦齁但是應該也沒有強制說一定要因為有一些法官確實也不見得每一位都有助理你不是要回答我是問你規定上面所以既然有的法官所以抱歉打斷你那我講那很重要因為我告訴你如果是大法官助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6202.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6226.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
他放在司法院．既然是放在司法院有沒有．他就不是司法人員．那．法官助理．他放在法院輔助法官．結果他是得志．得志．德．如果是得志人員．他也不是司法人員．所以．法官助理．未接為合．他不是司法人員捏． |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6229.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6255.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那如果在法院體系檢察署體系底下我不是歧視喔不要誤會喔你包括技工工友你包括這些人員對不對他算司法人員餒我是時間已到了這問題很大這問題很大因為他還包括司法人員才能變成司法行政人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6256.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6270.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
司法行政人員又司法行政人員的途徑管道然後這些有法律素養的去協助大法官跟協助法官的連司法人員都不是因為現在的條文就是這麼寫啊綁在那裡該處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6274.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6276.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
下一位禮德偉委員禮德偉委員禮德偉委員未到再下一位請賴香林委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6297.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6314.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
謝謝主席我就叫我們的副秘書長黃副秘書長在司法院整個各院系裡面我們知道勞動事件法上路四年左右快要四年了那你們有做過這個勞動事件法上路之後的滿意度調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6315.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6317.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6333.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6334.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6355.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6367.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我想就教就是說您這邊對於勞動事件法上路至今四年自己有沒有發現內部有什麼樣的一個資源上面或者是作業上面需要調整的地方嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6370.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6394.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
跟委員報告那其實勞動事件的這個法制的這個進步我們是持續有在做檢討除了委員所講的說埋度調查以外我想包含我們法院反映的的一些的可能實務上面碰到的一些情形我們也都在我們民視廳也都在持續的去會去檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6397.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6400.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6422.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6442.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以這部分包含一些一些像那個薪資薪資的那個暫時給那個暫時給付這些我們都有相關的規範當然後續我們對一些議題我們還會去做進一步的去去看能不能如何去做優化我想這不是大家所關切的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6442.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6471.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那請教就是說今天勞動部也有代表來我們勞調司的專委有在現場就是說我們現在發現就是說勞資爭議過去在地方行政機關有做調解的處理案量也有一些統計那或者是說現在勞動部有沒有比較積極的是希望說這種爭議或者是勞資爭議調解呢就直接先送勞動法庭勞動法院的這個程序來做在這個分流上面你們的政策是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6473.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6477.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
跟委員報告因為我是勞動條件是勞條司對那我們那個條件是在勞動關係司勞動關係司對那但是部裡面有沒有這個政策因為我上次在質詢的時候也特別看到我們看一下以台北市為例109、11、11年 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6491.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6492.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6513.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6515.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書．則不復議同意書． |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6537.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6557.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
或勞動部就可以把這種比較涉及權力事項而且標的性夠大的直接就不要在地方調解往行政勞動事件法的這個程序開啟那他也會在法院進行調解先行調解但我覺得這個就是可以縮短第一個訴訟的成本然後還有包括我們勞工等待的期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6558.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6575.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
所以這部分是不是請專委回去跟部裡面也轉達就是說還是要有個政策方向不然在地方上很多勞資爭議的條件重講一遍他到了法院之後又重講一遍其實那個時間都已經耗損掉權益也沒有確保好不好請你回去可以做轉達 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6576.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6579.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6601.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6628.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我想這部分是目前還沒有到司法這部分的話我們司法是沒有辦法在這裡強調或表達意見但是我想有一個是跟勞工有關的就是近期我們勞動部也說了說未來跟印度這個國家簽了我們移工引進的一個備忘錄那這個傳得沸沸揚揚甚至就是也有很多的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6630.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6655.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
就是說不要再引進新的移民國家、移工國家的人數來對工作權有所影響但是這事情我們就看到在很多的相關單位就跳出來說這個有假訊息的散布甚至是很清楚的由國安人員出來講了就是說勞動部的粉絲專頁就馬上有 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6658.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6663.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員四、審查委員五、審查委員六、審查委員七、審查委員八、審查委員九、審查委員十 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6682.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6682.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6697.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6708.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員四、審查委員五、審查委員六、審查委員七、審查委員八、審查委員九、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6723.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6724.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6741.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6741.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6759.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6783.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
大概跟業界討論完盤點出未來有四大產業還是會引進移工製造業、營造業、農業移工跟看護的移工我相信很多會是長期性的包括像機構移工或是農業性移工這涉及到我們勞動力短缺還有我們勞動專業上面的一個差別性在教育程度上的差別性但是也因為這個需求一大 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6784.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6786.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6810.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6833.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以我今天是藉這個質詢也讓司法院還有各單位了解就是說這個如果國安單位都已經出來確認這個粉絲專頁遭特定性的人透過大量的模組文字還有異常帳號來散播那請各部會自己要儘速確認之後要有個公開的說明也不至於讓牢牢之間因為這件事情產生糾紛因為12月3號就有團體要出來遊行要抗議要反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6839.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6840.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6859.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6876.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
謝謝主席其實我要質詢的題目另外一半也是跟賴委員的相似請問一下勞動部這印度移工你們預計是多少的人數那主要我最大的問題是預計是產業移工還是社福移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6878.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6885.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
委員抱歉,這個移工是我們勞動力發展署的業務,因為今天是代表勞動條件與就業平等司,所以委員等一下質詢的問題我可以把它帶回去做書面的回覆嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6902.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6903.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6925.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6950.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
二十三萬兩千九百人。就是說我們的產業移工是社福移工的好幾倍。那我好奇的是現在在開放的是產業移工還是社福移工?因為老實說社福移工我覺得是我們現在社會非常需要的。在我們的社會裡面做老闆的絕對沒有做新的做。所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6951.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6952.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6974.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6975.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6992.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6996.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7016.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7037.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
吳琪其實剛剛有委員問到資安的問題那妳也回答了就不是妳的專業啦也不是妳的份內其實我們資安的問題老實說不是只有司法院各個部會都有但是司法院有一個高度就是大家相信司法院的高度 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7038.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7066.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
當你在做任何的推動在做任何的跟其他部會不一樣的時候大家會對於你有不一樣的期望就是說我舉個例子來講好了我們現在其實我們治安也好我們的資料庫的安全也好都是各部會自己那我們也開始做部會的整合就是把部整合在一起但是看起來我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7067.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7091.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
每一年資安的預算真的是年年增加但是我們被駭客攻擊甚至是真的把資料公佈在網上的次數卻也是年年增加就是有點CP值不高那我們或許復明或許你絕對不是資安的專家但是你也可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7092.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7096.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7119.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7120.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7135.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7161.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
簡單的示範那因為我們的書法部現在真的是很不作為我們對他都已經放棄了所以我們來提醒一下司法院或許你們可以做一點示範我舉個例子日本的政府他們原本各部會也是跟台灣一樣各部份各部會自己去處理自己的資安自己的資料庫自己的資料的儲存跟安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7163.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7172.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
但是他們現在方向是委外全政府上下委外給一個國際大廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7174.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7200.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那這國際大廠呢其實國際大廠有很多個我們不一定要跟日本找同一個這國際大廠呢不僅是幫日本政府省下了整個治安的經費也讓他們的治安更安全雖然說安不安全不是說了算但是你可以想像當你跟這樣子的大廠簽約的時候我們現在我們的資料庫被hack有誰賠我們錢嗎我們的資安廠商有要賠我們錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7204.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7205.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7220.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7222.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7236.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7239.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7272.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7279.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
哪一位?差一點點,那我們還是讓陳佳華委員發言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7294.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7318.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
謝謝,謝謝召委上個禮拜有針對土地間接的部分有跟秘書長這邊來表達為什麼我今天還要再講因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7321.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7346.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
針對司法是有人民是有很大的期待那人民很失望的話那我們司法官很努力但是不符合人民的期待這個是很可惜的這是很可惜那我們今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7348.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7364.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
希望司法院能夠了解在土地的訴訟裡面有非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7368.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7392.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
錯誤的或者是針對專業認定的部分有許多是我們司法官沒有調查清楚或者是誤信作證但是我們不禁要奇怪問懷疑為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7393.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7417.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
高達九成多、九成九或九成五以上都是司法判決都沒有站在我們這個受害者這邊有那麼高達那麼多的比例都沒有站在我們當事人這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7421.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7432.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那我之前沒有那麼多時間當然也不是時間的理由就是這個是很專業的那既然那麼專業就是要專業來認定但是以我這個很不專業的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7444.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7464.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
在我聽了當事人的敘述我就能夠去了解那為什麼這位當事人經過那麼多次的訴訟仍然沒有辦法受到我們司法官我們法官的確認然後讓他有機會能夠來勝訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7472.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7497.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
那今天我以個案來說明我們看到這個圖在當事人91年11月18號申請建界,土地建界因為他要蓋房子我們知道蓋房子土地一定要建界嘛不然你蓋在錯的那個位置你的房子會被拆嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7498.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7514.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
一、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員四、審查委員五、審查委員六、審查委員七、審查委員八、審查委員九、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7528.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7540.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
一、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員四、審查委員五、審查委員六、審查委員七、審查委員八、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、審查委員十、 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7551.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7575.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
無法獲得見解證明因為竹北地震不給他竹北地震說你去法院叫法院調那我就不懂為什麼法院沒有調就判他敗訴就一直敗訴敗訴敗訴到他房子要被拆了所以我不知道我們的司法官怎麼去去判斷這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7577.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7586.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7605.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7628.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
要求申請再審的新證據就是間接的負障成果圖那我在這裡要表達我們司法院希望能夠重視保障人民的基本人權、居住權、房屋權因為他這個房子蓋好之後是有再申請間接 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7631.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7635.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7656.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7658.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7675.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7678.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
一、審查委員一、審查委員一、審查委員一、審查委員一、審查委員一、審查委員一、審查委員一、 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7698.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7714.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
甚至還有監察院的報告也沒有正確來呈現那種種問題希望司法院能夠來還給人民對司法的信心那請副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7718.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7731.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
跟委員報告,就委員所垂行的個案的話,委員剛才有說當事人正在進行這個再審程序,當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7733.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7734.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7752.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7757.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7780.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7784.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等21人審查委員吳琪銘等 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7810.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7834.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
陳秦仁也是在法院都有陳述啦那我要跟副秘書長說這是一個很大的烏龍案所以我們也希望司法院能想到一個譬如說在他這個拿到新證據之前絕對不能夠去草率去拆屋嘛對是這樣子能夠去進一步甚至法院是不是可以去索取這個證據呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7837.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7856.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
跟委員報告那麼已經判決確定的這種裁判在強制執行過程中如果當事人依照強制執行法底下確實有規定符合一定的要件的時候去可以申請停止執行那但是他有一定的要件那也是法律的這種規範不是法官可以自己去改變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7857.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7857.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7874.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7874.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7894.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7916.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那最後就是還是要請司法院了解現在土地漸漸因為重測或者是數值化現在有很多爭議所以請你們能夠去了解為什麼你們法院的判決竟然九成九九成九都是不站在當事人是不是到底問題出在哪裡可不可以提交一個那個檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7919.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7944.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們就後續的研究我們會去大概做個了解然後依照委員就一般性的這個道理到底是不是確實有說高達九成都造成一些不公平的情形的話我想我們那司法院副秘書長這邊你們去整理一下去分析一下那個訴訟有關土地間接訴訟是不是如我所言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7945.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7946.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7973.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7991.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為有一個判例其實跟身心障礙保護法有關一般都會覺得說大概有3%的禁用保障一般都會這樣講但是其實這個時代走到這裡已經不是3%禁用的門檻的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7993.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7994.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
第二次國家報告國際審查會議結論的第八點就是有一點叫做合理調整。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8016.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8032.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
那當時CRPD的公約裡面我們國家的報告裡面就指出說這個合理調整沒有看到進步然後政府應該要明確的禁止歧視的行為那合理的調整指的當然就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8033.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8034.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8050.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8065.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
在這個職場的障礙者他可以藉由合理的調整比如說我需要一個盲用電腦請你提供或者是說要調整工作流程等等那國際審查委員會在2020年的那個會議報告他提出我們對於合理調整的概念沒有被理解更談不上所謂的充分的推廣和實踐那政府呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8076.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8082.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
更沒有明確的規定讓國民知道拒絕合理調整代表非法歧視。 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8085.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8109.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
市長我要講這個是說這個請求權合理調整的請求權和協商如何在機關政府機關裡面落實因為老實說我們知道禁用最大的比例而且最多人數也是在這個我們的政府機關居多所以政府機關責無旁貸當然我們有CRPD的這個公約在那我們就要率先做表率給人民看這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8111.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8128.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
政府機關依據我們這次的國家報告其實是自身的落實有待檢討啦那我舉這個個案是因為這個個案裡面政府敗訴政府敗訴他就是被判被判決沒有落實合理調整的請求權 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8129.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8151.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
那講這個個案之前呢我先講就是說這個機關他就給他礦質的處分最後好像當事人就依法保障法去提出附審申訴在申訴後都被駁回那保訓會也認為國小這個行政機關資源有限那申訴人長期欠缺規律性的彈性道琴 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8154.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8156.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8184.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8185.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8201.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8218.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
而勞動部定額禁用其實統計起來是一百一十一年底統計有九萬一千兩百二十九人其中慢性精神病患有七千兩百零五位占全體這個禁用的比例是七點八九Percent |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8220.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8231.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
整體身心障礙裡面慢性精神病患而領有身心障礙證明的有129,885人。占全國身心障礙人口數118,740人的10.94%。這個個案的當事人就是領有中度的身心障礙證明的憂鬱症患者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8246.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8257.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
一、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員四、審查委員五、審查委員六、審查委員七、審查委員八、審查委員九、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十五、審查委員十 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8275.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8277.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8301.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8301.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8318.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8345.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
解決這種無法準時到勤的問題所以顯然是一個非常不恰當的一個介入而且是可能反效果的所以這個當事人也有受到很大的心理衝擊惡化了他的憂鬱症所以到最後他就變成沒有辦法上班他就退縮退縮了以後呢學校就給他礦值礦值又累計超過10日呢所以就記大過免職 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8346.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8358.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
免止還沒有確定就叫他先行停職當然這個機關就引用人事行政總署還有權序部的函令你們有幾個個別的裁量權嗎?你們的函令對於這個有幾個?這個人事行政局你們關於這個請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8370.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8396.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
大概就是一個就是說公務人員請假準否機關自行調整自行決定對吧?機關的權責那能針對礦質進行處分所以是機關權責那法院不是這樣認為法院認為人事刑事總署含令這個含令是指休假而不是病假無法援引因為你們還有一個這個權序部還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8397.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8420.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就是說公務人員如果請病假兩天以後再請試假一天然後你又再繼續請病假兩天再請試假一天再請病假兩天再請試假一天如果機關長官發現請假者有不實或玩法的情勢可以做適當處分大概就是這樣子認定了但法院不是這樣子法院認為說全序單位你這個函令應該指機關要適時查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8423.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8438.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
而不是看他請假兩天再施假一天並假兩天再施假一天就直接給他處分不是應該要就事實去查核到底是真的還是假的這是法院的這個判決指出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8439.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8464.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那法院實質審查就是說除了檢視請假規定是不是有歧視性的待遇以外法院其實還引了這個CRPD的積極面向公約裡面講的積極面向公約第二條第五條第三項拒絕提供合理調整屬於基於身心障礙的歧視其實法院是進步的我們都知道這幾年我們的法院司法院其實是相對是進步的所以他們認為說合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8467.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8468.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以合理調整的義務這個前提不是絕對的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8490.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8514.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
只有在合理調整的義務方不會造成過度負擔或不當負擔的情況下義務方的調整義務才成立所以必須依照當事人所處的環境去具體的判斷所以這是一個秉持著誠信協商的對話過程調整措施可能隨著具體情境而修正那回到這個個案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8517.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8537.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
法院其實認為說你協商過程並沒有尊重當事人經醫師診療後仍然難以而且吃了藥以後沒有辦法早上八點到請服務的這個客觀事實然後就直接要求說你要直接給我來上班還叫人家去教給他輔導然後說你要念倡委文業障重 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8542.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8564.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以這不是依照醫師建議或有任何科學的依據因此就輔導會議的記錄看似給予先措施但是不是協商的對話他認為學校這個沒有協商的對話機關沒有落實合理調整的程序所以機關都敗訴然後我們這個處分都敗訴都要都無效這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8568.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8594.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那麼我們講這麼多呢其實我是要講說對機關而言其實他們也是難以承受這個重因為他大概也沒有能力那他沒有能力的原因是來自於說公務人員服務公務員的服務法公務人員的請假規則根本沒有規定身心障礙公務員就期扶勤有合理調整的請求權 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8595.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8606.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那如果障礙者如果提出這個調整的請求機關有沒有協商討論的義務那該項的調整措施是否為法令所允許 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8607.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8628.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那對機關來講他是一個沉重過度的負擔的話那權序部跟人事行政總處你們有沒有訂出一個說相關的指引你們研擬過任何的指引讓機關去依循嗎或者是你們從現在開始需不需要檢視修法的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8628.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8651.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
另外就是說這個個案判決以後我覺得這對機關來講是很大的衝擊可是你們知不知道這一個這個個案這個判例那有沒有任何你們就全序或者是人事行政總署有沒有就這個判例去做過任何的檢討那有沒有修法的這個可能這樣子市長還有這個副任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8657.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8670.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這個部分聽剛剛委員這樣講我個人是覺得學校有一些過失因為基本上他這個用礦紙處理就是就是沒有讓當事人先請假因為他要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8671.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8672.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8695.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8695.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8713.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8742.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以顯然不是只有機關你們保訊會也是這樣子所以我在講說其實我們回到一開始我們講合理調整權對於CRPD裡面國家我們2020年自己台灣的國家報告國際審查會議的結論裡面有講直接也是這樣講政府都沒有對合理調整有正確的認知在法制面也沒有配套那也沒有定出任何的指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8742.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8743.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8769.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8770.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8793.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8795.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
當然如何營造友善的公務職場環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8811.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8813.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
三、審查委員三、審查委員三、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8831.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8846.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以你們機關內部從來沒有想過有這種制度面需要檢討的問題沒有討論過就是大家的合理調整權的這個權力保障的問題從來沒討論過就是會要求各機關要按照這個這不是各機關啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8847.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8849.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為各機關要怎麼去啟動這個協商他的合理調整權的調整應該要怎麼樣的指引要定一個準則這個你們不用去研議一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8861.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8888.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那因為當然行政院的受僱者最多啦但是其實身上的就業公務人其實也不只行政院啦這廣泛各務院都會有啦那但是這個是值得關切一個議題公務員是你們管的這制度面是你們要討論的啊這個是應該要關注這個問題要落實合理的調整請求權如果調整這樣按照這個這樣的要求合理的調整就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8889.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8913.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
你們訂一個指引給各機關遵循可以嗎?可以研究你們去研究需要看部門去研究一下這樣去研究一下那我們大概下一個會期下一屆可以來討論一下不會太久下一個會期下一屆大概還要三個月以後所以還有一段時間謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8916.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8943.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
好,謝謝林淑芬委員。我們下一位請劉建國委員發言。好,謝謝主席。今天是蜂蜜署長。蜂蜜署長,那就由你來吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8945.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8961.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我今天事情快速的向你請教剛剛我聽到委員在這個垂選的時候我有聽到你的答呼啦但是我有在做一些double check我請副議長要慎重的來答呼我以免有些不好的狀況發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8963.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8984.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我們的司法院在8月份有組織遭受到駭客入侵。那被報導出來的時候,貴院是在11月13日用290次的新聞稿回應這樣的重大事件。新聞稿的重點大概是這樣,所謂的組織為民眾查詢機的組織,內容細數各法院提供民眾查詢相關服務之公開資訊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8985.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8993.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
各法院管理者之帳號密碼則僅用於維護前階公開資訊該主機不提供民眾註冊帳號亦不儲存裁判書本院檢視前所外洩資料尚未涉及機敏部分並持續嚴密監控這是你們的新聞稿嗎?應該沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9012.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9024.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
國務委員報告齁有沒有錯啦沒有當時的新聞稿確實是這樣是是好那這件新聞稿我個人是覺得你這騙外行的黨你騙內行要騙你鬼所以所以國民黨你到底是內行還是外行 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9026.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9055.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我先請教你跟委員報告當然我本身不是資訊所以是外行沒關係所以司法院後面是外行阿民書長就不曉得是不是內行還是外行那裡面司法院當然上上下下應該也會有幾位是內行的而且組織這個事情當然也應該是要非常清楚所以我是覺得這個新聞稿的說詞都幫你們騙到了還是我不曉得是司法院連內行的人都沒有提起發生新聞稿是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9057.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9082.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
徹徹心心要欺騙你們這幾位組織的...跟委員報告啦齁因為那時候的新聞稿是說到當時為止發現的那後來才發現說我們確實是沒...到...你講到欸到當時的時候發現喔也就是在11月13之前你就開始去釐清嘛去調查嘛對不對所以你知道回答我這句話那個時候的發現嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9083.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9104.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那時候還沒有發現說有那一個裁判因為那個關鍵系統設計我還沒有講到那個地方去啦我現在是要確認清楚啦齁到底他要發這個信款之前 昆陽你知道嗎已經清楚了嘛對不對 他講的齁他說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9108.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9116.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
應該這麼說,如果你們都知道了,你們還沒有審視過,就讓他這樣的新聞稿可以發出來。我覺得你們都有相關責任,包括你跟秘書長都一樣。 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9118.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9144.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
你知道那種資訊服務機我們歷任了好幾台裡面確實不會有重要的資料只要能連線到資訊服務機但是它就有可能有跳板可以開始往內部的網域去入侵了這個邏輯不用專業也應該要知道然後這種機器我想它維修軟體或主控系統難道可以跟你們司法院的資訊系統完全切割開來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9146.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9165.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
然後司法院在十三日的新聞是說八月發現。你們是八月發現。但依據媒體的報導,駭客組織在四月三日就已經發布取得司法院內部資料最高管理員的權限了。也就是說司法院的系統整整被看光光將近四個月。 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9166.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9179.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
而且也有可能已經被潛伏更久的時間。司法院才發現,但發現之後,我覺得你也不要不緊啊。所以你們13號才會輕描淡寫的只是一台資訊服務機被害而已啊。主機,不是那一台服務機,是資訊查詢的主機被害。資訊查詢的主機被害,那就更嚴重了啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9190.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9210.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
吳琪銘長你看這張圖這是媒體爆料的駭客手上的判決書資料我這裡也去驗證過了透過上面的案號通通在判決書系統查到相對應的判決書判決書雖然是公開的但個人資訊要被遮蔽吧要被遮蓋尤其未成年人也一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9214.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9223.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
但是媒體透露的這份資料已經往前揭露一起家暴案件的當事人姓名,尤其有家暴的未成年姓名的姪女也完全曝光。你們要怎麼解釋? |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9230.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9251.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
跟委員報告齁那當時的這一個檢視是因為這些東西在那個組織上面確實是可以查得到那因為21萬當初四月份流出去這一包裡面有21萬筆那我們初步檢視是說人民的組織可以查的那可能應該都是可以被看的當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9252.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9268.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
當然後來發現說這個21萬筆裡面有幾筆就出現了像剛才委員所講的這個情形還有說也有判決書其實這個外線組織跟我們內部的裁判系統裁判系統這個所謂的最高最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9269.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9297.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
他們講說最高權限其實是有落差的那這個是單純那個主機那我們確實有這幾筆的主文裡面出現這個那我們也及時做事後的這個補救請法院就這一部分不是不是吳琪銘你這樣打我的意思就是說你們檢視完之後是確實是有這回事啦但是應該不是來了這麼嚴重確實也有幾筆嘛對不對可能沒有沒有遮蓋掉然後然後就被這樣害出去嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9298.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9318.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那已經是過了嗎?那您都很清楚跟委會做一個說明總共有幾筆像我剛才講的這樣的案例是,跟委員報告,清查到目前為止我們現在依照那個各自法已經要去做要去做相關的這些的通知了嘛目前大概是900多筆但它情形都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9320.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9323.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我只針對未成年的名字沒有被遮蓋的你們檢視完之後有幾筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9344.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9345.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9363.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9363.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9379.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9405.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
你都沒有辦法答案我講就不對啦齁你再看喔你們11、21號原本是13號21號在花圖宣告從290個字增加到594個字應該是有你緊張啦齁人類再度檢視前所外洩資料發現有部分案件之主文公告含有裁判書裡有內容令部分主文公告含各資目前發現923件的各自外洩所以我才單獨問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9407.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9436.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
把範圍再縮小一點那些未成年的那本院將禁述請各法院確認兵役各自保護法第12條及個人資料保護法適應細則第22條規定通知各自所有人你要怎麼通知啊你未成年人要怎麼通知你這些被你沒有遮蓋掉的這些各自外洩的當事人你怎麼通知然後你們司法院只善盡到通知的責任而已嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9438.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9438.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我剛才的問題很單純也很簡單你要打呼我 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9465.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9476.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這發生這樣的事情你們只是依照個人資料保護法第12條信息22條去通知各自所有人如此而已嗎?市委員要負的責任就只有這樣而已嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9477.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9478.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9507.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9508.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
則不予審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9520.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9544.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
你想一下,我覺得這樣是太恐怖了。十三日說安全無疑。二十一日圖說有932件外洩。然後二十一日你還說今天再度檢視所有的資料。但十三日的新聞稿說八月就已經成立專案小組清查。所以你們的專案小組是什麼問題?你們專案小組的成員要不要公告一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9546.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9573.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我跟妳講吳琪銘今天應該是秘書長來才對啦妳就要來了沒辦法就是妳住在岸妳也跑不去啦駭客中有白帽、黑帽、灰帽那白帽是屬於駭客中我的理解啦相關訊息是相對的正派的他們會攻擊系統但發現系統漏洞後也會通知系統組也因此報宅在11月10號白帽駭客就透過管道傳達給司法院喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9573.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9601.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
近代司法院修補網站的弱點後民報在進行報導然後民報在七日之間司法院得到回應還在瞭解狀況那八日的時候司法院坦承他們不清楚出現什麼問題所以民報在提供部門外卸資料的截圖給司法院十月九號下午在回覆民報你們在回覆民報知暗無語記者在進一步詢問因為駭客是一次性攻擊是我有確認過弱點修復司法院對此解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9602.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9617.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員三、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9628.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9636.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
然後把證據,媒體把證據整個掀出來。你們在21號的時候再說確定有923件的資料外洩。您所謂怎麼會當做這個事情?委員報告齁,因為在21萬筆外洩裡面去那個清查的這個過程中確實我們有檢討的這些空間裡面包含了這些不同種類的這一些個資裡面的900多筆那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9656.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9656.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9672.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9685.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
當時認為說這個21萬筆本來都是在那個查詢組織可以看的那他也沒真正連結到他是個比較獨立的系統並沒有真正連結到我們司法院內部的這些裁判製作裁判製作這些組織所以所以當時並沒有發現說有一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9689.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9690.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9717.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9737.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
被抗光光是在三月四月左右時間他什麼時候提醒你我不清楚或許你們不當意為是但是你們如果自己審視就不應該這事情會有這樣前後的新聞稿的回應你們是司法巨頭那邊出了到底什麼問題我不清楚這件事你們有沒有向司法部求救 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9738.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9738.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9755.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9756.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9779.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9804.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
一整個風暴被駭客取得之後那麼事後還有沒有在4月到8月之間還有沒有那我們是我們的那個資訊單位是說目前並沒有發現因為那是二十幾萬筆我時間到了吳委長我想是這個樣子今天如果是各法院包括司法院的法官的地址手機或家人的資料外洩那這事情會變成什麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9806.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9808.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9831.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9856.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
你針對這些各自被外洩的對象還有未成年的對象你們就有善盡通知沒有其他相關的責任必須要承受、要承擔違反各支法最終是可處兩年以下的期徒刑並科這個罰金20萬如果違反兒少法兒少法的相關的這個法律的條可處3萬到15萬以下的罰款 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9858.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9876.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
如果依照各支法規定採行適當的安全措施藉其未改正也會有相對的罰款這個好像對司法院不痛不癢還是划不到還是沒辦法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9877.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9877.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9898.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9912.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
審院到了啦,我是不是要求啦吳琪司法院這邊能不能有更高階的然後把數位備人你不用跟他報告嘛,你邀請他們一起來嘛針對這個一起來做審視嘛然後全面清查你們的系統的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9913.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9942.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
然後給委員會一個報告好不好一個禮拜內然後針對我剛才特別提到的這個已經洩漏出去的應該不是只有依照各司法12條跟施行司法22條去通知各自所有人你們要怎麼去補救嗎然後相關的人員如果在這個過程裡面有所疏忽還是沒有盡到他該負的責任你們要怎麼懲處是不是要一個禮拜內就提供給委員會一份完整的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9944.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9970.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
謝謝 謝主席謝謝劉建國委員所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者 請相關機關盡速送交 個別委員及本會委員吳琪銘所提的書面質詢均列入記錄 刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9975.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9990.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
現在進行討論事項請議事人員就討論事項各案的提案條文一併宣讀宣讀時間大概五分鐘宣讀後就進行討論如有修正動議也一併宣讀請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9992.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10012.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
討論事項第一案：立法院程序委員會組織規程第五條條文修正草案明進黨黨團提案第五條第一項續文未修正第一款至第八款修正為依內政委員會審查內政選舉大陸原住民族客家海洋政策及有關內政部中央選舉委員會大陸委員會原住民族委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10013.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10037.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
科交委員會、海洋委員會、不當黨產處理委員會長理事項之一案。二、外交及國防委員會審理外交、僑務、國防、退出與官兵輔導政策與宣戰案、構合案、條約案、戒嚴案及有關外交部、僑務委員會、國防部、國軍退出與官兵輔導委員會長理事項之一案。三、經濟委員會審查經濟、農業、國家發展、公平交易、能源政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10038.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10067.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
及有關經濟部、農業部、國家發展委員會、公平教育委員會掌理事項之一案。四、財政委員會審查財政金融政策、預算決算組織審計及有關財政部、中央銀行、金融監督管理委員會、行政院組織總署掌理事項之一案。五、教育及文化委員會審查教育文化科技政策及有關教育部文化部、國立故宮博物院、中央研究院、國家科學及技術委員會、核能安全委員會掌理事項之一案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10068.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10078.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
六、交通委員會審查交通數位發展公共工程通訊傳播政策及有關交通部數位發展部 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10079.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10105.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
行政院公共工程委員會國家通訊傳播委員會國家運輸安全調查委員會長禮事項之一案七、司法及法制委員會審查民事刑事行政訴訟懲戒大社機關組織與有關法務部行政院人事行政總署長禮事項及其他不屬於其他及其他不屬於各委員會審查之一案國營事業機構組織之一案應視其性質由有關委員會主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10105.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10118.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
八、社會福利及衛生環境委員會審查衛生環境社會福利勞工消費者保護政策及有關衛生福利部環境部勞動部長理事項之一案。第二項未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10119.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10147.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
第二案行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例第十九條條文修正草案委員吳琪銘等提案第十九條除腔條文中行政院海岸巡防署修正為海洋委員會海巡署外區域未修正第三案公家人員保險法第十條條文修正草案委員吳玉琴等提案第十條除腔第七項條文中性別工作平等法修正為性別平等工作法外區域未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10148.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10156.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
第四案勞動事件部份條文修正草案委員吳玉琴等提案第二條除將第一項第三款條文中 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10158.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10183.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
性別工作平等修正為性別平等工作其餘未修正第十六條除將第一項第二款條文中性別工作平等法修正為性別平等工作法外其餘未修正第二十五條除將第二項條文中性別工作平等法修正為性別平等工作法外其餘未修正第三十二條除將第四項條文中性別工作平等法修正為性別平等工作法外其餘未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10185.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10210.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
第五案司法人員人事條例第40條及第43條條文修正草案委員張宏祿等提案第40條除將第三項條文中公務人員退休法及公務人員撫恤法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法外其餘未修正第43條除將條文中公務人員撫恤法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法外其餘未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10211.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10240.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
第六案法官法第77條及第78條及第80條條文修正草案委員張宏祿等及委員黃士傑等提案第77條除將第三項條文中公務人員退休法及公務人員撫恤法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法外其餘未修正委員黃士傑等提案第78條除將第一項序文中公務人員退休法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法外其餘未修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10241.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10251.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
委員張宏祿等及委員黃士傑等提案第八十條除將第一項條文中公務人員撫恤法修正為公務人員退休之前撫恤法外其餘未修正宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10253.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10274.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
繼續修正動議部分討論事項第五案修正動議一對照委員提案條文第四十條第三項條文中撫恤法後增列或公務人員個人專戶至退休之前撫恤法等字。第四十三條默劇中撫恤法後增列或公務人員個人專戶至退休之前撫恤法等字。提案委員趟會爭等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10276.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10296.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
討論事項第六案修正動議一對照委員提案條文第七十七條第三項默劇中復續法後增列或公務人員個人專戶制退休之前復續法等字。第七十八條第一項續文中復續法後增列或公務人員個人專戶制退休之前復續法等字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10297.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10323.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
第八十條第一項中復續法後增略或公務人員個人抓戶至退休之前復續法等字提案委員會真等宣讀完畢好提案條文及修正動議均已宣讀完畢現在進行審查討論事項第一案民進黨黨團擬具立法院程序委員會組織規程第五條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10325.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10336.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
本案僅有一條審略大體討論我們直接進行主條審查OK嗎?好現在進行主條審查第五條現在是按照民進黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10352.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10358.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員二、審查委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10376.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10402.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
第二點過去我們就討論過立法院的立法行政跟立法院的立法的體制也請立法院幕僚單位研究過今天這個規程是母法授權的法規命令那我們現在召集人跟政委員跟我三個咱們現在是在開立法院的內部會議還是開立法院的立法程序這個規程我們可以提修正案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10403.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10424.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
法規命令照理來如果我們是只能做yes或no是不可以做修正但是我們如果是開立法院內部的會議我們三個立委是屬於立法院內部的啦那好像監察院有監察委員那個體制那好像我們又可以提修正以上兩個問題提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10431.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10433.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
報告委員我是立法院議事處針對我們程序會組織規程這一次的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10440.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10463.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
針對我們程序委員會組織規程這一次的修正是因為本院法治局有針對這一次的政府組織改造他有做一個相關的專體研究評估那因為政府組織改造在這一屆已經完成了所有各部會的一個法律的修正啊所以院長在草野協商的時候有跟各黨團黨編來說明說因為我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10467.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10490.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
本院法制局作為一個本院的法制幕僚機構他有提供了程序委員會組織規程的這樣的一個修正的草案的一個建議那因為我們院裡面的這個相關的這個法律的修正案的提案權是歸諸在本院的立法委員還有相關黨團身上所以呢有關於這個程序委員會組織規程 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10492.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10518.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
他雖然是根據法律授權定的命令未接但是以前早期像我們的立法院議事規則也是有法律授權定制也是在過去也是有委員去連署來進行相關的一個修法的動作所以這個是依照他的這個慣例來進行的所以這一次他院長就請各黨團是不是大家要共同提案或者是說要各自提大家再去看看溝通的狀況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10519.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10533.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
民進黨團就如同今天早上政委員所講的我們應該希望說將來像這一類的案子盡量如果是單純性的各黨團沒有特別意見的話應該是用共同提案的方式來處理會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10534.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10535.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
則不予審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10550.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10551.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘等21人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10568.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10589.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
的這個部的公文過來是屬於蒙藏文化中心的我們當然交給文化部的教育委員會來處理如果不是文化部來的公文是這個陸委會來的公文那它裡面是涉及到港澳蒙藏事務處的業務我們當然就交給內政委員會所以實務上的執行我們是根據部會的來文 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10590.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10599.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
來進行處理那部會的來文他為什麼會來這個文當然是至於行政院內部的初步規程的一個分工所導致的所以在實務執行上呢應該是不會有什麼樣的摯愛以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10607.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10622.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
我只是寫出釐清那個體制要建立你剛剛所講的但是其實過去我盤點這麼多也有立法院自己的幕僚秘書單位自己去提那個什麼相關的規則點點沒有的來也不只是說都是立法委員來提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10623.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10647.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
所以總是要把體制建立好如果從你今天開始講了之後以後立法院自己的募留單位都不能再提母法所授權的相關的這些行政命令或行政規則全部都要由各黨團或立法委員連署這樣來提是以後要這樣建立嗎還是其實還是可以區分我的意思說我知道今天還是一樣得不到答案但是我再三的提醒就是說我們這個法制這個體制一定要建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10648.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10669.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
委員上一次你的那個垂詢我記得我們院裡面法治局後來有做一個部分的研究但是就我們處裡面來講的話我們在院會裡面國會內規會透過院長在院會進行二讀程序把它通過的時候呢通常它那一個法規的最後一條是 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10670.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10697.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
本規定是要經過院會通過那如果說本規定是要經過院長核定或是只是提報的話那又是另外一個程序以上報告事實上我知道就是說我們現在立法行政當作全數委員要通過的時候不可能在立法立法的時候又把它翻盤所以其實是把兩個合作會但到底這個途徑程序還是要我已經盡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10702.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10724.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
希望以後可以就更完整更清醒那其實剛如你所講的我是說並沒有把就是說蒙藏其實現在是文化為重了啦我講白了就文化為重了所以其實你只要講教文會裡面的文化這個包括蒙藏文化但是你口頭上說明但是文字這裡面不會這樣加注啦其實大概就是這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10725.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10726.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
第五條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10751.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10780.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那本案主條本案這一條已經處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完均擬具審查報告提醒院會公決本案是否需交由黨團協商不用齁本案不需要交由黨團協商院會討論時由召集委員湯惠珍出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語用字授權主席及議事人員整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10783.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10810.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
第一案已經處理完畢列席的本院代表可先行立席討論事項第二案委員吳琪銘等21人擬具行政院功能業務與組織調整暫行條例第十九條條文修正草案本案僅有一條審略大體討論直接進行逐條審查有沒有意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10811.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10813.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
好,現在進行逐條審查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10815.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10839.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有關本案名稱部分本案五委員提案是在109年11月27日本院第10屆第二會期第五次會議提出而本案名稱後來經110年12月21日本院第10屆第四會期第十四次會議修正為行政院功能業務與組織調整條例刪除了暫行兩制故 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10844.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10853.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個法名稱維持修正後的現行名稱。那我們就今天討論的第十九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10855.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10878.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我們是不予修正維持現行條文可不可以可以好我們這個就照維持現行條文通過本案主條已處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完畢擬具審查報告提請院會公決本案是否需交由黨團協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10879.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10909.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
不用齁。好,院會討論時由召集委員湯慧珍出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及醫事人員整理。討論事項第三案委員吳琪銘等18人擬具公教人員保險法第十條條文修正草案本案只有一條審略大體討論我們直接進行逐條審查可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10911.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10934.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
現在進行逐條審查我們第十條是就照委員吳玉琴等18人提案通過,可以嗎?好,可以本案逐條已處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查文修擬具審查報告提請院會公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10937.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10955.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
本案不需要交由黨團寫上可以嗎?可以。愿會討論時由召集委員湯慧珍出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及議事人員整理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10957.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10969.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
好,討論事項第四案委員吳玉琴等17人擬具《勞動事件法部分條文修正草案》為求效率我們省略大體討論直接進行逐條審查可以嗎?可以現在進行逐條審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10978.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11006.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
總共有四條我們第二條照委員吳玉琴等17人提案通過可以嗎?可以第十六條我們也是照委員吳玉琴等17人提案通過可以嗎?可以第二十五條也是照委員吳玉琴等17人提案通過可以嗎?可以第三十二條也照委員吳玉琴等17人提案通過可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11008.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11036.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
本案諸條均已審處理完畢,作以下宣告本案審查完具擬具審查報告提請院會公決本案不需要交由黨團協商院會討論時由召集委員湯慧珍出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及議事人員整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11038.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11054.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們現在進行討論事項第五案委員張宏祿等20人擬具司法人員人事條例第40條及第43條條文修正草案為求效率我們審慮大體討論直接進行逐條審查有沒有意義沒有意義吧沒有好現在進行逐條審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11064.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11085.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們第40條我們現在照委員湯惠貞等4人所提的修正動議通過可以嗎?可以,好,通過那第43條我們也是照委員湯惠貞等4人所提的修正動議通過可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11087.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11116.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 那請我們副秘書長主席各位 43條這個修正我們是贊成但是那個修正理由好像是不是有一點誤詞因為修正理由裡面寫說是自願退休但是43條是在講撫恤所以是不是應該這個退休應該是改成撫恤這樣那個修正理由才會跟條文會對的起來才會配合好那我們照修正改成撫恤是吧好 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11122.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11136.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
本案逐條均已處理完畢,作以下宣告本案審查文具你據審查報告提請院會公決本案是不是要須交由黨團協商? |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11143.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11153.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
因會討論時由召集委員湯慧珍出席說明條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語授權主席及議事人員整理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11157.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11183.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
討論事項第六案並案審查委員張宏祿等20人擬具法官法第77條及80條條文修正草案等兩案為求效率我們審閱大題討論直接進行逐條審查可以嗎?好,現在進行逐條審查那第十七、七十七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11185.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11198.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們照委員湯惠貞等4人所提的修正動議通過可以嗎?好。第78條也是照委員湯惠貞等4人所提的修正動議通過可以嗎?好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11199.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11214.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那第八十條我們也照委員堂會針等四人所提的修正動議通過可以嗎好本案諸條均已處理完畢作以下宣告本案審查完均擬具審查報告提請院會公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11217.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11231.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
本案不須交由黨團協商,院會討論時由召集委員湯惠珍出席說明,條次引述條文部分文字及法制用字用語,授權主席及議事人員整理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11239.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11240.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
二、審查委員吳琪銘 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11271.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11277.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
一程所列事項均已處理完畢。本次會議到此結束。現在散會。謝謝大家。 |