IVOD_ID |
153042 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153042 |
日期 |
2024-05-27 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-26-19 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
1 |
會議資料.會次 |
19 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2024-05-27T12:32:10+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2024-05-27T12:46:48+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:14:38 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b33b9ceb00fc1d1e895186e4a1bc6f964e7ee5f66fe6bcf27554ed8f2ce0dbea445ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
劉建國 |
委員發言時間 |
12:32:10 - 12:46:48 |
會議時間 |
2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議(事由:一、審查
(一)委員林德福等19人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等25人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法部分條文修正草案」案。
(五)委員黃建賓等20人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(六)委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。
(七)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(八)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(九)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(十)委員張嘉郡等30人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
(十一)委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。
二、審查
(一)委員萬美玲等36人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(三)委員馬文君等20人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
(四)委員邱若華等16人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。
【一(九) :如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書,則不予審查】
【一(十)、(十一) :如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書,則不予審查】
【討論事項綜合詢答】
【5月27日、29日二天一次會】) |
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好,謝謝主席。也特別感謝主席今天特別排這個案,就是80歲以上免這個巴士量表的評估。我想基本上這個是當然也是要支持,但是免巴士量表的評估在這個界限在80歲以上,我覺得這個是要被討論的。因為為什麼當時要訂這個巴士量表? |
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這個公部門要講清楚那現在把它拿掉第一個要把它拿掉免評估第二個八十歲以上這個界限為什麼這麼晃 |
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70.883 |
transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為因為我我要謝謝趙偉特意排這個案但是趙偉特別特別提到嘛齁台灣人的平均餘命應該是70多到80幾嘛齁那這個女性的功德做得比較比較多所以女性都活得比男性久一點長壽一點所以男性還不及到80歲那這樣有沒有歧視男性對不對 |
transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.548 |
transcript.whisperx[3].end |
100.07 |
transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個大家討論啦,我是希望大家來把這個事情要慎重的來面對。那我現在要提到就是說,公部門有沒有去說明清楚當時為什麼要訂這個巴士量表,透過醫師的評估,然後還有加上任何什麼樣的條件,他才可以來提出申請這個外籍的看護工。我今天完全沒有聽到。那是不是要衛福部先來做一個說明?啊現在這個取消掉, |
transcript.whisperx[4].start |
101.559 |
transcript.whisperx[4].end |
103.885 |
transcript.whisperx[4].text |
你們的看法是什麼?反而勞動部應該是在第二個階段再來談的。 |
transcript.whisperx[5].start |
112.425 |
transcript.whisperx[5].end |
141.237 |
transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好謝謝委員那我們有機會把這件事情可以說清楚那確實就陳委員剛剛提的年齡到底要怎麼切那為什麼過往會有一些專業的這個評估那其實回過頭來就是看聘請家戶裡面聘請外籍家庭看護工到底聘進來是要做什麼事情所以在我們的看法是需要這個長輩需要有照顧的需求 |
transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.097 |
transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.065 |
transcript.whisperx[6].text |
委員會有需要衍生出,尤其他的照顧是要密集的照顧,因為重度的照顧依賴,所以才會設計變成是這種24小時引進一名人力來陪在旁邊隨時提供一些服務。所以概念上是這樣來的,所以才會有衍生。那什麼樣的老人 |
transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.965 |
transcript.whisperx[7].end |
190.882 |
transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他基本上來判定他是有完全依賴嚴重依賴那這個時候就是我們也參考了這個國際的這樣的一個通用的量表就是大家俗稱的巴士量吧可是他事實上他是我們這整個由醫療團隊去執行的一個副表他真正的表是所謂的他要由醫療團隊來處理就叫病證病證及失能診斷證明 |
transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.623 |
transcript.whisperx[8].end |
194.607 |
transcript.whisperx[8].text |
一聲開的是這個一聲開的是這個一聲開的是這個一聲開的是這個一聲開的是這個 |
transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.011 |
transcript.whisperx[9].end |
233.04 |
transcript.whisperx[9].text |
一些疾病有列了一、二十項的疾病由疾病的這個變化出來需要的密集照顧的來判定所以基本上才會由交給醫療團隊而且過往比較嚴的是要公告就是由勞動部這邊我們提供的醫院名單給勞動部公告可是我們其實已經在這個之前就已經開放到診所也可以 |
transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.44 |
transcript.whisperx[10].end |
238.183 |
transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以現階段開放出來可以來執行這個所謂的病證及這個虛能診斷證明的醫療團隊醫療院所是235家診所是625家 |
transcript.whisperx[11].start |
263.42 |
transcript.whisperx[11].end |
285.974 |
transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第二還要有病证及施能诊斷书。對,那個是一個只有醫生能做的疾病诊斷书。所以今天如果把巴士量表拿掉,不需要巴士量表,它是不是還要有病证及施能诊斷證明書,才可以提出外籍考慮申請。巴士量表是副表,真正的是那個診斷書,判定是那個診斷書。 |
transcript.whisperx[12].start |
288.055 |
transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.91 |
transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以今天不能讓外界感覺到我們把巴斯亮表整個免評估取消掉之後那需求者他就可以馬上去申請外籍客戶工嗎?我是可以這麼講嗎?這個部分可能就是要看那個法規的文字是怎麼了?你怎麼可以打我這種問題?因為整個呢?你是主管機關法規的文字怎麼說你現在講清楚啊你今天來備選你應該就準備好了啊 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
317.093 |
transcript.whisperx[13].end |
346.004 |
transcript.whisperx[13].text |
呃...就...就未復...今天稍微排這個案就很清楚明確的就80歲以上要免這一個巴斯量表的評估讓需求者不管他是健康也健康他都可以提出外籍看護工的申請喔最主要是要做這件事情非常明確嘛那如果今天巴斯量表拿掉免評估之後你必須還有疾病及私人相關的診斷證明才可以提出外籍看護工的申請 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.824 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
375.678 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這你必須要講得清楚嗎?跟委員報告因為現在各委員提出的版本都是把醫療的專業評估拿掉而不是拿掉巴氏量表但是今天的主題是要講這個相關委員的版本有要把這個診斷證明私人疾病的診斷證明拿掉這是另外一回事但是外界會感覺當時在選舉的過程裡面講的是80歲以上的這些需求者為什麼還要巴氏量表的評估 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
376.358 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
394.251 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以今天召委才排這個案。我講這樣應該沒有錯了。對不對?那如果今天把報審量表的評估拿掉了,還有所謂的疾病及失能的診斷證明,你才可以去申請外籍看護工。這個你公部門要講得非常清楚啊。不是現在委員提的版本怎麼樣怎麼樣啊,還沒有審啊,還不曉得啊。 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.715 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
407.218 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛只是在強調現況。市長,我剛剛 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
414.56 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
434.091 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
真正專業評估醫療團的專業評估做的是這個病症暨失能診斷證明書。對嘛,所以你今天要處理的就會變成說不只把巴斯量表評估拿掉免評,叫免評嘛,對不對?你是不是連疾病及相關的失能證明同盟公要拿掉?對。今天是變成要處理到這個呢?這個層次的喔?好,那問題來了,那為什麼是80歲以上? |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
439.662 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.803 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以這個部分剛剛才提那個年齡應該不是一個主要考量的而是要考量他的照顧需求對所以這個我們要跟外界講清楚嘛不然到時候我們這些委員大家在共同集思廣益的情況之下要為人民謀取更便利的請到外籍看護工結果我們搞不清楚 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.57 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.678 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
只針對80歲以上我剛剛講的這是常委提供的數據嘛台灣人平均餘命女性就大過於男性男性就不及到80歲那所有這些男性都不用請了都不用請了嘛然後再來衛福部的相關資料在網站上公告是80歲以上的私人佔比是32.68啦故有照顧的需求者是29萬29萬喔那現在我們有效聘僱的外籍看護士 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.765 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.097 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
呃,家庭看護工是18萬。這18萬是,是含在,呃,含,含,呃,對不起,不含機構,再加2萬。現在就已經有照顧需求者就已經不足9萬了喔。依照務部提供的資料已經不足9萬了。80歲以上喔。那你現在全部開放之後,會變成怎麼樣?變成用最高的推估啦。 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
513.655 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
523.021 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
就是移工人數可能要高達全原有的需求是29萬到這個等於88.7萬扩掉29萬換算加起來要將近要到72萬左右要到72萬左右好那你現在又有讓這些重度的重症的還有輕度的 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
539.018 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
560.376 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這些失智症的病患也可以來申請外籍看護工嘛,對不對?好,那個表格秀出來給大家看嘛。這些,這些不需要80歲以上吧?不需要嘛。這些目前為止有申請外籍看護工的占比是多少?人數是多少?你們應該手上都有資料嘛。 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
561.414 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
577.652 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我現在是要跟大家講說供給跟需求我們要講清楚嘛我們要理解清楚嘛齁因為剛剛有很多委員也特別提到這個方向大家來努力沒有錯啦但是會產生什麼樣的效果這效果是好的效果還是反效果 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
578.912 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
601.029 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
會不會再排擠到這些需求者像你看你這些等級一到十二平衡機制障礙、智能障礙、植物人、失智症這些到底用的外籍看護工的比例多少你的維護部就有辦法精算出目前有效聘外籍看護工80歲以上的是18萬家庭看護工了機構是將近2萬嘛就20萬嘛但是80歲以上的需求就已經達到了29萬嘛就已經落差在9萬 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
609.554 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
632.063 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
的這個數額了喔你一年可以引進多少的外勞進來外籍公共進來一年我們現在還跟印度簽MOU還線上簽的都還沒有確定那我現在跟各位表達就是說當這個需要的29萬到目前都還沒有到位 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
633.701 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
662.212 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
還差了九萬的八十歲以上那八十歲以下剛剛也有國民黨委員特別提到七十到七十九歲的這個癌症的病友嘛對不對還有你包含這些十四項的這些這些需求到底是多少有沒有精算出來我要表達說當你把把整個這個八十四項表的評估拿掉然後你但是你還是要還需要再有一個病症及失能的診斷證明 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
663.876 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
685.143 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這是另一個機制嘛。這個機制如果還是持續確保,包含勞動部之前在去年十月三項的多元的這樣的一個放寬。這樣林林總統加起來,你有沒有一個很明確的數字讓我們知道這樣的供給跟需求會有什麼樣的結構性的大變化? |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
686.662 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.919 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
會不會會不會今天因為委員在講說那到時候你公佈你去處理啊開放之後免評之後你去處理啊你自己去列優先順序當你列了優先順序重產的先重症的先八十歲以上的先八十歲以上的健康跟亞健康的排序是什麼樣可以很清楚的跟我們說明說明嗎如果你沒有辦法很清楚跟我們說明那就會出大問題喔我是外籍看護 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
715.512 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
741.357 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我今天來到這個家庭裡面我看到這一個是到上手的是每天要灌死的然後搬也搬不太動的還要搬到洗澡的我們現在的外籍看護工是可以自由選擇僱主的喔我會不會馬上說我不來了幹了三天五天我就跑去跟仲介講說我要換僱主勞動部你要不要很忙 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
742.745 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
748.47 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
要不要去督促、要不要去監督啊為什麼一直換來換過去一直換來換過去換到最後我乾脆就逃跑了輝華移工已經八萬五應該是破九萬了啦這事情會不會更嚴重我只是從幾個面向來提供給大家因為我沒有得到這樣的很明確的數字的時候我會覺得做這個事情基本上它不是不對但是會非常危險 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
772.469 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
791.473 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就是說前面的開放大家都拍手叫好我也支持啊但是後面產生出來的既然不是一個好效果是一個很嚴重的反效果整個外籍看護在台灣的流動的狀況不是缺了很多不是需要者有真正的進到這個家庭去做照護還是經常會發生這個外籍看護工 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
795.29 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
818.852 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
一下子來到這個僱主一下子又換到了僱主平均做的時間不會超過一個月不會超過兩個月台灣怎麼不會大亂所以我希望是在在在在召委今天是沒有針對法律的草案去修正還有一兩天的時間提供更正確的數據給我們所有委員做參考大家都是好意 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
820.101 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
840.256 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
大家都希望朝向更便民的方式但是當這個人力的不足當外籍看護可以自由選擇雇主的時候你真的要思考的非常多的面向包含這些重症的包含有國民黨委員提到的70到79歲的這些人你的優先順序你到底要怎麼排你不要排到最後全部都是那個健康的都可以請到都做了很久 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
848.237 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
870.322 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們還說這個台灣給外籍看護工的職場環境非常優結果重症的結果真正需求者通通被排擠掉那你要用什麼你現在要修哪一條法律說他不可以隨便更換僱主可以這樣做嗎有法律可以定成這樣嗎沒有喔違反人權喔請深思請思考謝謝好謝謝 |