| IVOD_ID |
152929 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152929 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
25 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-23T12:31:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-23T12:44:46+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4533d1375646ad79b22bde51848baade829d34e896d657c5e83e4c5fe67f6f01b515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:31:36 - 12:44:46 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共4案。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案。
三、併案審查
（一）行政院函請審議「洗錢防制法修正草案」案。
（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。
（三）委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案。
（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案。
【第三案（一）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查；（四）如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
| gazette.lineno |
1328 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
黃委員國昌：（12時32分）不好意思！再給我30秒就好了。我稍微調整一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：你要請哪位上來？我先請他上來，再開始時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
黃委員國昌：不好意思啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：要請哪位？待會他上來，我們時間再算。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
黃委員國昌：我不好意思讓部長在那邊等。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
主席：不會，要請部長嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
黃委員國昌：對，是。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
主席：有請鄭部長。還有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
黃委員國昌：沒有，可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
主席：就部長。可以了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
黃委員國昌：可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：委員好！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
主席：請。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
黃委員國昌：部長好！今天我們要審議洗錢防制法，我相信最主要的理由就是因為幫詐騙洗錢太嚴重了，我們要強化整個有關於不法洗錢行為的規範密度及廣度，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，現在整個詐騙之所以會這麼猖獗、不法的所得之所以難以追回，是不是就是因為洗錢所導致的？ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們是希望能夠把犯罪的不法所得查出來查扣，然後發還給被害人，不然的話，就是要宣告沒收。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，除了把不法所得追回來之外，我們應不應該嚴懲幫助不法所得洗錢的人？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這是我們的立法目標。 |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃委員國昌：這是立法目標嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，這個立法的目標有沒有獲得實踐，我們就要具體的看，今天洗錢防制法的修正關於洗錢行為的定義在第二條裡面重新做文字的修正嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
黃委員國昌：有哪三種洗錢的樣態，可不可以請部長稍微說明一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：在第二條的部分，我們是參考德國的立法例，我想這個部分可以讓我們在洗錢的定義更加的明確，因為…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以是哪三種樣態？看我的ppt就可以了啦！部長，我ppt寫的絕對不會錯啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：一個就是掩飾型，就是ppt講的掩飾型的…… |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
黃委員國昌：掩飾型是第一種嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：對，第一種。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
黃委員國昌：還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：還有就是阻礙型的及隔絕型的。 |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
黃委員國昌：以及危害型，最後才隔絕型嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，我們來看一下具體的例子，被害人被詐騙了以後，把金錢交付給詐騙集團的首腦，這個詐騙集團的首腦拿了這個錢去跟酒商買了昂貴的酒，然後這個首腦跟A共謀，把這批酒給藏起來，這個是不是洗錢的行為？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這是一個洗錢的行為。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
黃委員國昌：這是一個洗錢的行為，非常好！講得很明確。所以我們這一次在洗錢防制法當中，針對隱匿特定犯罪所得或掩飾其來源，所謂隱匿型的部分，請部長看一下，就你剛剛所講的參考德國刑法第二百六十一條第一項第一句的掩飾型洗錢犯罪，我們過去在主觀要件上把他定位成是意圖犯，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：對，現在把它刪除。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，現在我們不用意圖犯，按照你們修法理由，除了客觀上有隱匿或掩飾的行為，而且主觀上只要知悉或可得知悉財物或財產上的利益是特定犯罪所得，就構成了洗錢，是不是？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，所以這裡的知悉或可得知悉，是把主觀要件降到未必故意，還是把主觀要件降到過失？ |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：我們認為這是一個抽象危險犯，只要這個行為的話，我們就認為有洗錢行為。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
黃委員國昌：抽象危險犯我瞭解，現在我問你的是主觀要件的部分。 |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這就是一個故意犯嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
黃委員國昌：這是故意犯，那可得知悉是什麼意思？你看一下你們的修法理由…… |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：可得知悉就是未必故意。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
黃委員國昌：可得知悉是未必故意，好，非常好，那我今天要跟部長公開檢舉一個幫詐欺犯首腦洗錢的行為。這批酒是當初我在臺灣公益揭弊暨吹哨者保護協會的時候，幫im.B的被害人追出來的酒，因為詐騙集團首腦曾耀鋒用詐騙所得去買了一拖拉庫的酒，藏在一個地方，當初有被害人跟我講說有這批酒，但他們不知道在哪裡，那個時候，被害人具狀請北檢檢察官去追查，北檢檢察官查不出來，後來我自己請協會的同仁去查這批酒在哪裡，查到這批酒以後，我拍了照具狀跟臺北地檢署檢察官陳報，因為我沒有公權力，不能搜索扣押，我能夠做的就是告訴北檢檢察官酒在這裡，請他們去扣押。收到我這個陳報狀以後，過了幾天，北檢檢察官也真的去扣了這批酒，現在這批酒已經被變賣掉了，變賣所得的金錢也發還給被害人。重點是，我們追回了不法所得，但協助隱匿這個不法犯罪所得的所有參與人，是不是有被訴追刑事責任？這件事情，部長覺得重不重要？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：個案部分我們是尊重檢察官的裁定結果。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，所以我才要公開檢舉。當初這批酒藏匿的地點是在前行政院政務顧問陳振坤實際所掌控的旅館地下室，因此陳振坤在臺北地檢署im.B的起訴書裡面，依照洗錢防制法被起訴了。這個是臺北地檢署給所有被害人的起訴書，我相信北檢檢察官在您當初的領導下，一定是很認真在追究這些詐騙、洗錢的犯罪行為。 |
| gazette.blocks[47][1] |
來！請部長看一下我紅字寫的部分，他說陳振坤為了協助曾耀鋒隱匿吸金的犯罪所得，提供他小孩位於宜蘭縣宜蘭市慕夏精品旅館有限公司地下室，供曾耀鋒藏以犯罪所得購得的噶瑪蘭威士忌酒，現在這個案子臺北地檢署起訴了，在臺北地方法院的刑事庭正在進行審理程序，在那個審理程序當中，我要跟法務部部長報告的是，那個幫助洗錢的陳振坤認罪了，他認罪了，他已經清楚的認罪了，因為刑事審判程序是公開的，對不對？部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
黃委員國昌：是嘛！他在刑事審判程序公開的法庭認罪了，這個沒有涉及到偵查秘密嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
黃委員國昌：對嘛！好，他在認罪的同時，他講什麼呢？他同時講說這批酒當初會放，是立法委員陳歐珀把酒交給他的。來！請部長看一下剛剛這個犯罪結構圖，這個詐騙的首腦加上A代為隱匿他詐騙的犯罪所得，顯然這個A不是只有陳振坤，因為陳振坤現在已經起訴了，也認罪了，但這個A不是只有陳振坤，這個A還有陳歐珀啊！這個犯罪事實，公訴的檢察官在公訴蒞庭的時候應該都知道，公務員知道有不法的犯罪事實，是不是應該要依職權告發？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：陳歐珀的部分已經另案偵辦了。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以現在在偵辦當中嗎？不是啦！因為我怕啦！公訴的檢察官當庭知道這樣一個犯罪事實的時候，他有沒有依照職權告發，我不是很確定，所以我現在直接公開檢舉這件事，這沒有什麼偵辦秘密，這是在公開法庭當中，陳振坤認罪的時候所表示的內容。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][1] |
好，現在你當法務部部長了，請問法務部部長可不可以在上班的時間去幫財團老闆喬私人的訴訟？你現在當部長，你會不會這樣做？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個不可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
黃委員國昌：這個不可能嘛！應不應該這樣做？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個應該大家都知道應該怎麼做才對。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
黃委員國昌：大家都知道應該還是不應該？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個不應該在…… |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
黃委員國昌：絕對不會發生這樣的事嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
黃委員國昌：你擔任法務部部長的時候，希望不要發生部長利用上班時間，幫自己好朋友、有錢的大老闆喬他私人的訴訟、談和解，法務部長做這件事情不妥嘛，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個、這個是。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
黃委員國昌：好。第三件事情，去年有監聽的名單外洩出來，那個時候調查局、廉政署、最高檢察署三個非常重要的偵辦犯罪機關聯合發了新聞稿，表示這是典型的認知作戰。好，如果今天這個外洩的監聽名單全部都是假的，竟然有人在散播這個假名單，那當然是認知作戰，但問題是裡面散播的有非常多都是真的，那個時候…… |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個有洩密，這個臺北地檢署也正在偵辦中。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，所以針對這個案子，臺北地檢署的偵辦，我要拜託部長，我不會介入個案偵辦，我只要求一件事情，就是積極查辦，因為這件事情很嚴重，如果把監聽的名單外洩，會嚴重阻礙到整個犯罪的偵查…… |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個監聽的資料是不是真實的，我想這個也涉及到認知作戰中假訊息的問題，臺北地檢署也在偵辦中、瞭解中。 |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
黃委員國昌：所以臺北地檢署會不會公開清楚的讓社會大眾知道，裡面是全部都假的，還是有很多是真的？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這個我想要看偵查不公開的作業辦法規定…… |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
黃委員國昌：對吧！現在偵查不公開，但偵查總會終結，我希望偵查終結的時候，要負責任的跟社會大眾講，這到底是真的還是假的？如果是真的，誰洩漏出去的，該不該追查？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
主席：好，請部長說明，一句話，因為時間關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
鄭部長銘謙：這部分如果偵查有結果的話，我想臺北地檢署應該會以新聞稿或對外的一個說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
主席：好，謝謝部長，謝謝總召。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
主席：接下來有請葉委員元之質詢。葉委員元之、葉委員元之不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][1] |
所有發言登記委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][2] |
委員質詢時，要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。 |
| gazette.blocks[74][3] |
委員翁曉玲、吳宗憲所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
84 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-36-25 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-23 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1135001 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1135001_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共 4案；二、處理113年度中央政
府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案；三、併案審查(一)行政院函請審議
「洗錢防制法修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修
正草案」案、(三)委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案、
(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
2.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
每次都反對自己的提案,我不能理解啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
25.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
確保tag沒有問題吧?蛤? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
下面還拍不到不好意思再給我30秒就好了我稍微調整一下你要請哪位上來我先請他上來再開始時間不好意思啦要請哪位上來我們再時間再說我不好意思讓部長在這邊不會要請部長嗎對是好請那個部長再請有請部長正部長還有沒有就部長就部長好可以了嗎委員好請 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
104.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
部長好今天我們要審議洗錢防制法我相信最主要的理由就是因為幫詐騙洗錢太嚴重了我們要強化整個有關於不罰洗錢行為的規範密度跟廣度對不對是好在整個詐騙之所以會這麼猖獗 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
134.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
不法的所得之所以難以追回是不是就是因為洗錢所導致的我們是希望能夠犯罪的不法所得能夠查出來查扣然後花還給被害人那不然的話就是要宣告沒收好除了把不法所得追回來之外我們應不應該嚴懲幫助不法所得洗錢的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
137.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
160.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這是我們的目標。立法目標。這是立法目標嗎?好。那這個立法的目標有沒有獲得實踐呢?我們就要具體的看。因為今天洗錢防制法的修正關於洗錢行為的定義在第二條裡面在第二條裡面重新的做文字的修正嘛。是。有哪三種洗錢的樣態?可不可以請部長稍微說明一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
167.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
193.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
在第二條的部分我們是參考德國的一個立法例齁那在我想這個部分可以讓我們在個洗錢的這個定義更加的一個一個明確齁因為我們是那所以是哪三種樣態看我PPT就可以了啦部長我PPT寫的絕對不會錯啦就是一個隱害演示型齁就是PPT想的演示型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
194.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
222.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
也是刑第一種嘛還有呢還有就是阻礙型的跟隔絕型的跟危害型最後才隔絕型嘛好來我們來看一下具體的例子喔被害人被詐騙了以後把金錢交付給這個洗錢犯的首腦詐騙集團的首腦這個詐騙集團的首腦拿了這個錢去跟酒商買了昂貴的酒然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
223.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
245.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個首腦跟A共謀把這批酒給藏起來 這個是不是洗錢的行為這是一個洗錢的行為這是一個洗錢的行為嗎 非常好講得很明確 所以我們這一次在洗錢防制法當中針對隱匿特定犯罪所得或掩飾其來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
263.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所謂隱匿型的部分來請部長看一下喔就你剛剛所講的參考德國刑法261條第一項第一句的掩飾型洗錢犯罪我們過去在主觀要件上把它定位成是意圖犯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
284.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對不對對現在把它刪除好現在我們不用意圖犯按照你們修法理由除了客觀上有隱匿或掩飾的行為而且主觀上只要知悉或可得知悉財務或財產上的利益是特定犯罪所得就構成了洗錢是不是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
285.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
308.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好 所以你這裡知悉或可得知悉你是把主觀要件降到未必故意還是把主觀要件降到過失我們認為這是一個抽象危險犯只要這個行為的話我們就認為有洗錢的意思抽象危險犯我了解現在我在問你的是主觀要件的部分這是故意犯嘛這是故意犯那可得而可得知悉是什麼意思來你看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
309.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
337.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你們的修法理由可得知悉就是未必故意可得知悉是未必故意嘛好非常好那我今天啊就要公開跟部長我公開檢舉啊一個幫詐欺犯的首腦啊洗錢的行為這批酒是當初我在擔任台灣公益階壁及吹哨者保護協會的時候我在幫IMB的被害人去追出來的酒因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
339.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
364.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
詐騙集團的首腦曾耀峰用詐騙的所得去買了一拖拉鼓的酒藏在一個地方當初有被害人跟我講說有這批酒但他們不知道在哪裡那個時候被害人劇狀請北檢的檢察官去追查北檢的檢察官查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
365.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
375.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我後來我自己請我協會的同仁去查這批酒在哪裡查到這批酒以後我拍了照 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
400.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
據狀跟台北地檢署的檢察官呈報因為我沒有公權力嘛我不能搜索扣押嘛我能夠做的就是告訴北檢的檢察官酒在這裡請你們去扣押收到我這個呈報狀以後過了幾天北檢的檢察官也真的去扣了這一批酒現在這一批酒已經被變賣掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
401.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
402.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
則不予審查．則不予審查．則不予審查． |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
452.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以我才要公開檢舉嘛因為當初這個酒藏匿的地點是前行政院政務顧問陳振坤他實際所掌控的旅館的地下室那因此陳振坤在台北地檢署IMB起訴書裡面他依照洗錢防制法被起訴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
454.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
472.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這個是台北地檢署給所有被害人的起訴書我相信北檢的檢察官在您當初的領導下面一定是很認真的在追究這些詐騙洗錢的犯罪行為來請部長看一下我紅字寫的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
473.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
499.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他說啊陳正坤為了協助曾耀峰隱匿悉心的犯罪所得提供他小孩位於宜蘭縣宜蘭市木下精品旅館有限公司地下室供曾耀峰藏以犯罪所得購得的葛瑪蘭威士忌酒現在這個案子台北地檢署起訴了在台北地方法院的刑事庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
500.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
527.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
正在進行審理程序在那個審理程序當中啊我要跟法務部部長報告的是這要那個陳正坤啊幫助洗錢的陳正坤啊他認罪了他認罪了他已經清楚的認罪了因為刑事審判程序是公開的嘛對不對部長是是嘛他在刑事審判程序當中公開的法庭認罪了這個沒有涉及到偵查秘密嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
530.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
548.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個沒有對嘛好他在認罪的同時他同時講什麼他同時講說這批酒我當初會放啊是立法委員陳歐破把酒交給我的也就是來請部長回去看一下我們剛剛這一個犯罪結構圖啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
552.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
579.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
這個詐騙的首腦加上A代為隱匿他詐騙的犯罪所得啊那顯然這個A啊不是只有陳正坤啊因為陳正坤現在已經起訴了嘛他也認罪了嘛那這個A不是只有陳正坤啊這個A還有陳厚破啊這個犯罪事實公訴的檢察官在公訴立庭的時候應該都知道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
580.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
585.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
公務員知道有不法的犯罪事實是不是應該要依職權告發? |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
586.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
616.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那個陳厚破的部分已經立案偵辦了所以現在在偵辦當中嘛不是啦因為我怕啦齁公訴的檢察官啊當庭知道這樣子的一個犯罪事實的時候他有沒有依照職權告發我不是很確定嘛我現在直接依照我現在直接公開檢舉這件事這沒有什麼偵辦秘密啊這個是在公開法庭當中啊陳正坤他認罪的時候所表示啊的內容好現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
617.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
637.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
法務部部長您現在當法務部部長了嘛法務部部長可不可以在上班的時間去幫財團的老闆喬斯仁的訴訟以後你如果當部長你現在當部長你會不會這樣做這個不可能嘛應不應該這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
642.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
669.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這個應該大家都知道應該要怎麼做才對大家都知道應該還是不應該這個不應該再...絕對不會發生這樣的事嘛您當任法務部部長的時候我希望不要發生部長利用上班的時間幫自己好朋友有錢的大老闆去喬他私人的訴訟談和解法務部部長做這件事情不妥嘛對不對這個是好第三件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
670.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
697.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
去年去年有監聽的名單外泄出來那個時候調查局、廉政署、最高檢察署三個偵辦犯罪的非常重要的機關聯合發了新聞稿說這是典型的認知作戰說這是典型的認知作戰如果說今天外泄的監聽名單全部都是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
699.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
718.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
然後竟然有人在散播這個假名單當然是認知作戰嘛但問題是裡面散播的裡面有非常多全部都是真的那個時候這個有洩密這個也是在台北地監署在申辦所以齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
720.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
733.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
針對目前這個案子台北地檢署的偵辦我要拜託部長齁我不會介入個案的偵辦我只要求一件事情積極查辦因為這件事情很嚴重喔你如果把監聽的名單給外洩的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
735.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
740.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
你會嚴重的阻礙到整個犯罪的偵查嗎?所以台北地檢署會不會公開清楚的跟社會大眾知道裡面是全部都假的還是有很多是真的?所以我想這個要看偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
757.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
773.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
要還是會偵查不公開的一個作為辦法規定?現在偵查不公開嘛但偵查總會終結嘛我希望偵查終結的時候要負責任的跟社會大眾講這到底是真的還是假的如果是真的誰洩漏出去的該不該追查 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
774.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
791.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
議員員資質詢 |