| IVOD_ID |
152604 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152604 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-16T10:27:24+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-16T10:38:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:10 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc30b9b7111ca3ef07f0be5ec193467b1025e01ba30ddb4afe0f284365ca29e16c795ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王世堅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:27:24 - 10:38:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案。
【5月15日及16日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
566 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
王委員世堅：（10時27分）謝謝主席，我請政務次長和關務署彭署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請阮次和彭署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
王委員世堅：經濟部產發署有過來喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：產發署有代表。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
阮次長清華：委員，您早。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
王委員世堅：次長、彭署長，我們今天談關稅，可是我不跟你談提案的這些關稅，我倒是要跟你談一下我們進口保健食品的關稅。進口保健食品的部分，長期以來我們這個關稅過高，社會各界反映，也有相關學者專家都提出我們政府錯誤的部分。這次監察院也發現有問題，監察院賴振昌委員認為，不但我們保健食品的稅率偏高，而且因為財政部硬要這麼高的關稅，說是要保護國內生技產業，結果讓這些不肖業者利用高關稅的保護，生產很多劣質品，反而危害了國人的健康，也導致我們國內保健食品跟國外像日本、美國這些先進國家相比，價差高達三倍以上，這些都非常不公平。至於這樣是不是保護了我們國內的相關生技製藥業者，其實結果反而沒有保護到，好的也沒保護到，讓不好的到處充斥。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][1] |
署長應該很清楚，國民對於消費保健食品，如果根據食品工業發展研究所的估算，他們估算一年裡面，以前年為例，他們認為大概有一千七百億左右的市場。而我們的保健食品部分是多少？30%！署長，你知道吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
彭署長英偉：是，知道。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
王委員世堅：這就是你們訂的，你很清楚嘛！30%這麼高的關稅，遠高於日本。跟全世界各國比，日本算高的，它不到15%，14.56%，不到我們的一半；美國更少，6.4%；韓國8%，連那麼蠻橫的對岸中國也才8.5%。甚至我們跟自己相比，同樣的東西，保健食品我們抽30%；香菸我們抽27%，天啊！香菸方面是為了維護國人健康，希望藉由高關稅來防止其有害健康的部分，但保健食品是要促進、提升國人健康，反而比香菸還高，你不覺得這很荒唐、很荒謬嗎？次長、署長，你們的看法呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
阮次長清華：報告委員，剛才也有委員關心這個案子，目前保健食品的關稅稅率是30%，這個是我們在進入WTO的時候承諾的稅率。至於將來要不要降，要尊重主管機關的意見，主管機關目前…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
王委員世堅：你又來了，你又推給經濟部。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
阮次長清華：不、不…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
王委員世堅：我覺得長期以來動不動你就互推。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
阮次長清華：報告委員，我們關務署是執行單位，它不是決策單位。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
王委員世堅：那你剛剛說尊重產業本身的主管機關，你的意思是這樣囉？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
阮次長清華：對，當然過去他們都說不能降、不能降，過去就是為了保護國內的相關產業，所以不能降，不過這一次它倒是有點鬆口講可以考慮，就是說…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
王委員世堅：現在說可以考慮？它…… |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
阮次長清華：這個是不是容許我帶回去…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
王委員世堅：你奉為圭臬、奉為上級機關的經濟部，你動不動都推給它。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
阮次長清華：不是、不是，這個是…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
王委員世堅：好啦！那它都講了啊！它都講這個部分可以研究囉？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
阮次長清華：報告委員，這個是部會分工，沒有什麼上級機關，不是這樣。因為他們是主管機關，所以我們要尊重他們的意見，它現在已經鬆口了…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
王委員世堅：它的意見如果正確我們尊重嘛！它的意見說這個是為了保護國內產業，那你知道嗎？所謂的保護國內產業，讓很多生技業不但不研發新藥，改為生產這些保健食品，而且很多數是不肖廠商。你不但沒保護它，它從來不研發藥品，也從來不製作對國人有益的藥品，改來做這一項，他們靠著不實廣告，生產這些劣藥。其他的我不講，我光講一家傳統的生技公司，這一家叫佳格，佳格一年高達343億的營業額；其他好幾家，其他的藥品全部都不做了、不研發，通通來做保健食品，這個佳格算是好的喔！另外，出名的葡萄王、大江生醫、晨暉等這些都是。保健食品占比，我剛剛講的這幾家大廠，占他們90%的生產金額！90%。所以大家其他的不做了，因為你提供高關稅的保護，大家就搶著如雨後春筍般一個一個都跑出來，都做保健食品就好！ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
阮次長清華：是，謝謝…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
王委員世堅：因為你這個高關稅保護著嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
阮次長清華：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
王委員世堅：我剛剛舉的這些是好的喔！好的廠商。不好的廠商，名字我就不講了，我就講他們造成的危害好了。他們靠這些不實的廣告，我相信你們很清楚，不實的廣告，有的還欺騙消費者說這可以改善視力，可以改善心血管疾病、告別疾病這些，一大堆！誇張不實的廣告，保健食品等於以藥品的方式在廣告。藥品必須有醫師的處方箋才能使用，尤其心臟病、高血壓、糖尿病、視力退化這些都必須要有專業醫師的處方箋和診治，結果他們就用不實廣告，這些不實廣告罰多少？光講改善視力這一家好了，每天都充斥他們的廣告，他們去年一共被罰2億5,000萬，光是這一家，2億5,000萬喔！所以你們的高關稅到底在保護誰啦？你們保護了這些不肖廠商，而且讓本來正規的製藥業、生技業者，因為有龐大的商機、高關稅的保護，他們不研發新藥，統統來做保健食品！結論：你保護了誰嘛！反而讓我們國內的生技產業退化了，不是嗎？所以我認為這是當務之急，你們非做不可啦！署長，你的看法呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
彭署長英偉：報告委員，我們會將這些意見函請工業局評估。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
王委員世堅：你是？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
彭署長英偉：報告，我是關務署。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
王委員世堅：你說要請…… |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
彭署長英偉：因為貨品主管機關還是屬於經濟部這邊，我們還是要請他們就…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
王委員世堅：你們關務署就是源頭嘛！源頭都告訴你了！你說要保護我們國內的生技產業，結果沒有保護到，還讓不肖業者應運而生！然後又讓我們績優、好的廠商、業者不再研發，統統來做保健品啦！因為有高關稅的保護，因為他們有高利益，不是這樣嗎？而且那些不肖業者還透過不實廣告！因為這個利益太大了啦！在重利之下，這是暴利的行為耶！結果他們用不實廣告！買通了地下電台，甚至直接侵入電視，每天就這麼跟民眾講！我剛剛跟你講了啊，光是顧眼睛，說吃了「眼睛看得明」的，一年連罰2億5,000萬，它還繼續播！你們就是始作俑者耶！ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
主席：王委員，如果有機會，我們再針對這個主題召開聯席委員會好了。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
王委員世堅：主席，是不是讓經濟部回答20秒鐘？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][1] |
你把你剛剛那句話收回去！你要找誰研究？就是你嘛！你還找誰研究？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席：請產發署代表。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
盧副組長碧黛：主席好。委員的一些意見我們會重新做個評估，再把意見送給財政部做整個稅制的檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
王委員世堅：要多久？你們經濟部內部什麼時候可以把這個成命改掉？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
盧副組長碧黛：差不多一個月。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
王委員世堅：一個月？好，我就等你！就一個月！ |
| gazette.blocks[38][1] |
好。主席，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
主席：謝謝王世堅委員質詢。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][1] |
接著請游顥委員。游顥委員、游顥委員，游顥委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][2] |
接著請李坤城委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
350 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-20-12 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-16 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134602 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1134602_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案（後接第三冊） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席我請政務次長跟關務署彭署長又請阮次跟彭署長經濟部產發署有過來齁產發署有代表委員早這個次長那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們今天談關稅可是我不跟你談提案的這些關稅我倒是要跟你談一下我們進口保健食品的關稅啦這個進口保健食品的部分長期以來我們這個關稅過高那社會各界也反映也有相關學者專家都提出這一部分我們政府錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
57.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
議員．王世堅議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
財政部應要這麼高的關稅說是要保護我們國內的生技產業結果反而讓這些不肖業者利用高關稅的保護那生產很多劣質品反而危害了我們國人的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
而且也導致我們國內保健食品跟國外像日本美國這些先進國家相比價差高達3倍以上這些都非常不公平的啦至於說這樣是不是保護了我們國內的相關生技製藥業者其實結果反而沒有保護到好的也沒保護到讓不好的到處充斥 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
148.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那個書上應該很清楚我們一年國內我們國民消費這個保健食品如果根據食品工業發展研究所他們的估算他們估算說一年大概以前年為例他們認為大概1700億左右的這樣子的市場而我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
168.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
保健食品的關稅是多少?百分之三十欸!署長你知道吧?是,知道這就你們訂的嘛,你也很清楚嘛百分之三十這麼高的關稅遠高於日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
跟全世界各國比日本算高的喔他不到15% 14.56我們的一半不到啦那美國更少6.4韓國8%連那麼蠻橫的對岸中國也才8.5%啦8.5%那甚至我們跟自己的相比同樣的東西我們是保健食品我們抽30% |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
香煙我們抽27%天啊香煙是為了要維護國人健康那希望說藉由這個高關稅這個來防止他們有害健康的部分但是保健食品是要促進提升國人健康的反而還比香煙還高 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
248.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那你不覺得這很荒唐很荒謬嗎?那個次長署長你們看法呢?報告委員 這個剛才有委員關心這個案子啦那我想這個目前這個保健食品的關稅稅率是百分之三十這個是我們在進入WTO的時候的承諾的稅率 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
249.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
269.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那至於說未來將來要不要降這個是要尊重主管機關的意見啦主管機關目前以後來的以後推給經濟部我覺得你長期以來動不動你就互推我們關務署是執行單位他不是決策單位那你剛剛說尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
271.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
現在說可以考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
293.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
293.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
議員．王世堅 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
312.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
韓國瑜委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
334.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不研發新藥他改來生產這些保健食品而且很多數是不肖的這些廠商你不但沒保護他他從來也不研發藥品他從來也不製作對國人有益的藥品他改來做這一項他們靠著不實的廣告那生產這些劣藥我 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
359.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我其他不講,我光講一家傳統的生技公司齁這一家叫加格,加格一年吶一年高達343億的營業額啦其他好幾家他全部其他的藥品都不做了,不研發通通來做保健食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
405.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那這價格算好的喔是好的喔另外出名的葡萄王那大江生衣那陳輝那這些都是保健食品站我剛剛講的這幾家大廠站他們百分之九十的生產金額欸百分之九十所以大家其他不做啦因為你高關稅的保護嘛啊大家就搶著 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
431.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
雨後春筍班一個一個一個都跑出來那都來做保健食品就好因為你這個高關稅保護著嘛好啦那我剛舉的這些是好的喔好的廠商欸不好的廠商名字我就不講啦我就講說他們造成的危害好了他們靠這些不實的廣告我相信你們很清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
432.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
不時的廣告有的還欺騙消費者說這個改善視力可以改善心血管疾病告別疾病這一些一大堆啦誇張不時的廣告保健食品他等於以藥品的方式在廣告那藥品我們必須這個醫師醫院處方針才能使用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
459.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
尤其這些心臟病高血壓糖尿病視力退化這些都是必須專業醫師的處方針跟診治結果他們以這個不實的廣告這些不實廣告罰多少光我就講光講說改善視力賣 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
480.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
490.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以改善勢力的這一家好了每天廣告都充斥他去年啊一共被罰兩億五千萬光這一家兩億五千萬喔所以你們這個高關稅到底在保護誰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
517.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你保護了這些不肖廠商而且你讓人家本來正規的製藥業生技業者因為這龐大的商機嘛這高關稅的保護他們不研發新料啦通通來做保健食品結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
結論你保護了誰嘛你反而讓我們國內生技產業退化了不是嗎所以我認為這是當務之急你們非做不可啦那個署長你的看法呢是報告委員我們會將這些意見在函請這個這個我們工業局這邊再做評估你是那個報告我是關務署 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
572.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
官副署是你說要你再請因為貨品主管機關還是屬於這個經濟部這邊我們還是要請他就委就是你你就是源頭嘛源頭都告訴你你說要保護我們國內的生技產業結果沒有保護到你讓不肖業者應運而生 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
574.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
594.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後你要讓我們既有好的廠商業者不再研發啦通通來做保健品因為有高關稅的保護因為他們有高利益不是這樣嗎然後那些不肖業者還透過不實廣告因為這個利益太大啦高利之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
596.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
617.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
重力之下這是暴力的行為結果他們用不實廣告那買通了地下電台連電視直接侵入電視每天就這麼這樣跟你講我剛剛就跟你講啊光是吃眼睛說眼睛看後面的一年罰兩億五千萬他還繼續撥 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
619.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
638.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你們就是始作俑者欸王委員將下來如果有機會我們再辦聯席委員會好了這個主題好不好那個主席我在是不是他要回答20秒鐘經濟部你把你剛剛那句話收回去你要找誰研究就是你嘛你還找誰研究廠房署代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
639.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
667.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
主席主席好我們這個委員的一些意見我們會再重新來做一個評估再來把這個意見送給那個財政部來做整個的稅制的一個的檢討多久啦多久你多久經濟部你什麼時候做出你們內部可以去把這個層面改掉差不多一個月一個月好我就等你就一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
667.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
668.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
王世堅 |