| IVOD_ID |
152361 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152361 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-1-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-09T09:44:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-09T09:54:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d554e30850cf792debbd7f9fb844fd53b4f9ff50c8f2c18736499d1b681a2ac74e9b506dd3952c205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:44:20 - 09:54:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「強制執行保單解約償債未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案。） |
| gazette.lineno |
212 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
謝委員龍介：（9時44分）主席，我請秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：有請吳秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
謝委員龍介：還有執行署。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：黃署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
謝委員龍介：金管會。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
主席：請施局長。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
謝委員龍介：我先來問執行署署長，你有沒有去看過你們討債的訊問室？跟當事人做筆錄，才欠你們兩、三萬塊，當場在問他們，你有沒有看過？你有現場看過他們怎麼問嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
黃署長玉垣：沒有，現場我是沒有看過，但是他們就是這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
謝委員龍介：我有看過，我陪當事人去，也進去你們裡面，今天這些問題都是因為你們討債討得有夠緊的，你們比黑道討債還兇，真的啊！見面進去，坐下來在旁邊放兩副手銬在那裡，當事人欠你們兩、三萬塊，我進去後，那個女的還跟議員說怎麼會這樣，對不對？進去只看到那兩副手銬，他腳底下就冷了，你不知道啊？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
黃署長玉垣：我不知道，應該是沒有手銬啦！我們也不是警察。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
謝委員龍介：我親眼看到的啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
黃署長玉垣：是，我再瞭解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
謝委員龍介：那不好啦！你討到大家跑路，現在詐騙的就這麼多了，你們比較厲害，怎麼不去抓那些詐騙的、不去抓那些賊，這些良民說難聽一點，稅金付不起就很可憐了，接下來怎麼樣？欠你們三、五十萬，說你不繳的話要管收，有的法官還替當事人說話，說你們不符合比例原則啦！這樣就要管收，這樣管收得完嗎？這都是我親身經歷的，不要這樣啦！問題是你們執行署討債很兇啦，我們在協調這些時，有時候是一般地方的議員一起去，他也沒什麼要理我們，我現在來立法院報到，可能多多少少會讓我說話，不然只有地方的議員的話，除非你要去跟他喬分期，這樣才會對你客氣一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
秘書長，去年這個大法庭這樣宣布下來，去年到今年、到今天，只有保單處理的就差不多有八、九千件，是不是？大法庭有說你們要給當事人陳述，但你們都沒有叫當事人來耶！你如果再給雙方的當事人都來陳述意見了，我問你你的業務會多幾倍？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：所以業務很多啦，陳述就是包括書狀…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
謝委員龍介：有八、九千件，難怪你們法官會想不開，對不對？詐騙的抓一大堆，現在無緣無故移送的又一大堆，製造糾紛出來的又一大堆，我個人是覺得今年7月以前舊的保單還是一樣，這個問題還繼續發生，不會不見喔！所以金管會對這條要拜託一下，我個人的感覺，這如果不趕快解決，你們法官、司法院跟法務部就要常常送來立法院追加人員編制的要求，不是這樣嗎？秘書長。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：因為這個現在就重災區啊，就需要這麼多人力。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
謝委員龍介：沒有啦！所以我們要反著想嘛！不是只有你們這裡解套，不是只有金管會解套，不是只有保險局解套。 |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
吳秘書長三龍：所以政府是一體的，政府應該一體來面對。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
謝委員龍介：你對討債的這裡，它如果不要討那麼緊，後面沒有這些事情啦！署長，我跟你說，你應該去聽聽看，你都不要打草驚蛇，人家在問的時候你就靜靜去錄下來聽，你就知道你們那邊的執行官多「殺」，你都不知道啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
黃署長玉垣：委員，應該是不會啦，我覺得我們的執行官都是為人民服務，我覺得態度應該不會這樣啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
謝委員龍介：臉帶笑容、硬話軟說，很厲害！你這樣還說不會，我就跟你說我陪當事人去好幾次，你聽不懂嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
黃署長玉垣：是，委員，我會去瞭解。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
謝委員龍介：不會去製造這些問題，你們很會討債沒錯啦，什麼死人骨頭你們都有辦法挖出來，我有遇過當事人拿一支花瓶去，他說這以前我阿公留下來的、清朝的，很有價值，不然用這個來抵債好不好？你又不懂貨，對不對？馬上就打槍人家，你們看了喜歡的才要讓人家抵就對了，不然都沒有。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
今天法務部跟金管會都有來，我跟你說一件很嚴重的事情，這跟秘書長比較沒關係。請問金管會，你知不知道現在年輕人用摩托車去借錢，借4萬5要還多少，你知道嗎？分36期，你知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
施局長瓊華：委員，這部分應該是類似融資公司在處理的。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
謝委員龍介：對，我跟你說，借4萬5要還73,440元，這樣不打緊，這是機車喔！汽車的部分，很多年輕人跟爸爸媽媽說要買車，因為同學、朋友也有買車，同儕之間大家都開車，所以他就要買車，長輩一定說再看看，我光是被這些長輩拜託去處理這種錢的問題就有夠多的。再來，現在為何二手車會這麼多？我跟你說這臺二手車是28萬，但實際行情要拿天書出來看，你知道他可以把28萬賣到32萬嗎？年輕人急著用錢，「哈到遛皮」，一去就說32萬不用頭期款，全部都貸款，這樣就賺4萬了，這還不算！借了32萬，人家說「放五虎利，好不過後代」，開始收帳管費、手續費、開辦費，加一加又兩、三萬，之後分攤成36期，利息貸一貸3年差不多要多繳50%，借30萬要繳45萬，貸款就這樣寫。年輕人互相通報就可以買車了，最後要錢還是要經由黑道、討債公司，到現在都沒有解決，這已經反映過好幾次了。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
施局長瓊華：報告委員，融資公司的部分，銀行局其實也有找幾大融資公司在溝通，希望他們能夠定自律規範。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以你們知道有問題就對了，確定有問題？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
施局長瓊華：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
謝委員龍介：還是要我們把案例收一收給你們看？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
施局長瓊華：有，銀行局應該都有掌握到一些資料。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
謝委員龍介：放過這些年輕人，不要這樣啦！他們現在很厲害，他們把所有賣出去的車牌都放在PDA、電腦裡面，你只要兩期、三期沒繳納，在路邊找到車就通報所有的保養廠，只要這臺車來保養就通報回去，他就有獎金耶！他就叫人來把車吊回去，後面就開始來追這些帳了，等於沒繳錢的話，32萬的車開半年就被吊回去了，他就開始拍賣說這臺車15萬，你看看啊！借32萬要還48萬，再扣15萬，這樣你還欠他33萬，我說這樣你聽得懂嗎？他們的帳就是這樣算的，這個社會怎麼會不亂？這些年輕人被追殺、跑路，怎麼辦？長輩要出來處理，就去找民意代表陳情，整個過程就是這樣。因為都沒有整套去面對，所以為什麼那天王世堅說這些人真的改天生小孩會沒屁股，這比「放五虎利」更慘，「放五虎利」已經「好不過後代」了。對於這些貸款公司、租賃公司，包括民間的部分，是不是提供一份資料給我們？好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
施局長瓊華：好，我們會轉銀行局，請他們提供一個書面。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
謝委員龍介：你跟銀行局說一下，拜託提供給我們，我們才知道要怎麼面對，我幫你們想看看有沒有什麼怪招，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
施局長瓊華：是，好。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
主席（莊委員瑞雄代）：謝謝謝龍介委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][1] |
接下來請鍾佳濱委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
122 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-1-36-21 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
沈發惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
莊瑞雄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
吳思瑤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
羅智強 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
65 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-09 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134301 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1134301_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、邀請司法院、法務部及金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「強制執行保單解約償債
未符比例原則紛爭頻傳亂象如何解」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預
算關於司法院及所屬主管預算凍結項目共8案 |
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主席我請秘書長有請吳秘書長、執行署、方署長、金管委來請張北雲議事局長我先來問執行署署長你有沒有去看過你們的特勤的詢問書 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
36.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
今天這個問題都是你們偷錢偷到有夠煞的,你們比那個歐洲的偷錢更煩,真的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我先瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
90.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
91.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有的法官還替董事長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
118.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
124.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
啊你們不符合比例原則啦齁啊這樣就要關稅,這樣關稅會怎樣啊這我都親身經歷的啦不是這樣啦,這問題齁你們這執行署,執行署齁在討錢很難的啦我們在縫合到這個齁去有時候要參與一般地方的議員去,他沒什麼要參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
146.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
150.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我現在來立法院報到可能來講比較稠稠的給我說的樣子啊不然剛剛地方的議員剛才你要去跟他說分期啦這樣比較會對你比較客氣淡薄啊比如說幾年剛剛這個立法院這樣宣佈下來啦,幾年到今年,到今天了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
170.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
199.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
只要這樣保險大處理還不就被告清驚是不是啊?有這個數字阿台法庭有說你們要給董事林欸你們這時候都沒叫董事林來欸齁阿你如果給鄉方面的董事林都來陳述意見就對了啦我問你會否的結局呢?這個所以業務很多啦陳述就是包括書狀的...被告...被告清驚阿不然你們法官會想不開啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
201.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我個人是覺得 今年出的以前就對了 這是出的舊 這是新的啦 舊的保單還是一樣啦 這個問題又繼續發生喔 不是的保單而已所以金管會對這條 要拜託一下 我個人的感覺 這如果沒有關係解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
230.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
258.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
您發官、司法院及法務部不管是就要上來立法院要追加領完的編制感謝,秘書長因為這個現在就重災期啊,就需要這麼多人力啊沒有啦,所以我們要打平手嘛不是只討你們這裡嘛,不是只討金管會嘛,不是只討保險局嘛所以政府是一體的啦,政府應該一體來面對這樣一個問題啊你對特勤的這裡,他們不要那麼煩躁,沒有這樣的事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
261.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
273.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席,我告訴你,你應該去聽聽看,你都不要怕車子,人家在問的時候,你大點點去,把他下車來聽,你就知道說你那裡執行官外殺,你不知道啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
281.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
296.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員應該是不會啦,我剛剛問的那些執行官齁,那些都是為人民服務齁,我覺得應該態度不會這樣啦。民代車友,爺爺能講,齁齁,夠厲害。你這樣又說不會,我又跟你說我背董事,你去咕嚕咗你聽到沒有。是,是,委員我會去了解,齁。這製造,不會去製造這麼的,你最重要的特質沒有不對啦。什麼私人骨頭空喔,你就有空去把它黏出來啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
310.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
321.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我跟董事長拿一支肥肝去說,他說這故事我阿公留下來,這清掉了,這假日沒用,這給你們靠這樣好不好?你暗罵會對不對?一聲就敢罵清?你們看得到,他會比較要放肚就對了,沒有的都沒有的今天法務部報告、金管會都有來,我跟你說一件很嚴重的事情譬如說這監理比較沒有關係你敢知道現在這次 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
340.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
346.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
委員這個部分應該是類似融資公司在處理的,是。我告訴你這4萬5要行7萬3千4百4十了,這樣沒關係,這是機車喔。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
370.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
386.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
開車,很多年輕人跟老伯老婦說他要買車,我們同事也要買車,我們朋友也要買車,同事之間就對了,同事之間就是大家都開車,他就要買車,四大人一定說啊,看什麼啦,我只要給這四大人拜託去處理這幾項就對了,有夠多啦,看什麼,再來,造成現在為什麼李修車會那麼多? |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
398.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
407.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
李秀燮我告訴你,這台車2百萬啦齁,新的行情天書拿去看,2百萬,它會賺不到30二萬,你覺得嗎?年輕人現在在急著愛用錢啊,賣到六倍啊,現在來去,30二萬你不用投機款,農莊貸款,這樣就中四萬啦,這沒什麼,這30二萬, |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
427.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
436.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
人家說幫我好來好不過後台啦來開始 帳管費啦 手續費啦 開辦費啦 加加的一更兩三萬 加到這 加到後分團組36集 團組36集啦 理事代替的3檔要結納差不多50%啦 3檔要結納50%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
456.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
463.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這30萬要繳45萬啦!每款寫的35萬,啊怎麼年輕人你幫我報,我幫你報,我們都會等不及啊!啊這搞不好就後面,特勤還是對歐德去啦!特效公司啦!啊這搞你現在都沒辦法啦!這要把你歡迎過來變成這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
482.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
496.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
報告委員 融資公司的部分我們的銀行局其實也有找幾大融資公司在溝通啦希望他們也能夠定制立規範所以您是知道問題的問題就對了啦 確定有這個問題是還是要我們把案例稍稍給你們看有啦 我們大概銀行局那邊應該都有掌握到一些資料沒有啦 放給這些年輕人過啦 不好這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
506.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
518.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他們現在很厲害,他們現在把所有賣出去的車,車牌都放在PDA裡面,電腦裡面喔,開喔,你只要2機沒力,3機沒力,路邊找到,通報所有的保養所喔,只要這台車來保養,要通報回去,他有最快的,要叫人來把車調到他,這樣後來就開始來對這件事了嘛,因為你錢沒力喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
529.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
537.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
阿你現在32萬的車對不對,你才半年後調回去阿,調回去他把你拍賣給你說什麼,這台車拍賣15萬,你給他看嘛,阿你32萬你要給他40八萬,40八萬加靠15萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
549.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
565.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你還欠他33萬我講你聽得懂嗎?他們年輕就是這樣算的年輕就是這樣算的啊所以社會比較不會亂啊這個年輕人又退散啊、走路啊啊要怎樣?四大人要出來處理啊四大人就對民意代表才會擔心啊整個規定就是這樣若不精討去面對啦所以為什麼一天王世堅會說這些人真的臨江生鏡也不可創啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
580.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
584.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這比放學後來更慘,放學後來就好不過後台了啦。所以,這我看你把這個公司齁,貸款的公司,租賃的這裡,包括民間做的這個,是不是一分數了還,好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
601.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
607.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好,我會轉予銀行局,請他們提供一個書面。拜託他給我們,我比較知道要怎麼面對,我告訴你最方有什麼怪招嗎?好不好?是,好。好。 |