| IVOD_ID |
152212 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152212 |
| 日期 |
2024-05-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2024-05-06T11:19:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-05-06T11:29:29+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:47 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6319d5f220c85a6832b30523c8fa5a1984bf63cf92ad2af6801aa916026d4d420a24d4c92cf601975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:19:42 - 11:29:29 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-05-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」等2案。
【5月6日及8日二天一次會】） |
| gazette.lineno |
761 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（11時19分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，有請李次長。李次長，你好！ |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
李次長慶華：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
羅委員明才：在整個人員的異動方面，財政部是西線無戰事，大家天天過好日，我看到署長們大家都是笑逐顏開，在沒有一些人事更迭當中，我想請教一下次長，因為大家都說貧富差距越來越大，達66.9倍啊！這個是必須要正視的一個問題，最主要就是感覺，像在這個級距當中，我想請問一下次長，你覺得你是有錢的，還是沒錢的？ |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
李次長慶華：我是中間的。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
羅委員明才：其實國家要做的事情，就是讓有錢人富者更富，讓覺得沒有錢的人可以受到保障，未來有希望，希望每個人年年是好年，日日是好日，那要怎麼做呢？我覺得就好像今天的地方稅法通則一樣，站在22縣市，每個地方大家都想要地方自治、自主財源要多一點，次長，你的政策工具很多喔！怎麼樣運用智慧讓全民富起來，其實是很重要的，我們讓貧窮縣在66.9倍當中的40%，怎麼樣多鼓勵他，減輕他的負擔，多多照顧他，讓他強起來、讓他富起來；簡單地講，你就把臺灣很多的政策措施變成新加坡化，我請問你，杜拜有沒有很多的稅？我在財委會發現中華民國萬萬稅，中華民國萬萬稅，這個稅、那個稅、一大堆的稅，每個地方講的，大家都同理心讓地方錢多一點，可是我覺得這不是長久之計，不是一個長遠、可長、可大、可久的方法。所以次長，我們之前講的娛樂稅要不要廢掉？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
李次長慶華：報告委員，娛樂稅的部分，因為地方政府是反對廢除，但是我們已經跟他們討論過，在現行課稅的項目裡面，有些是可以檢討處理的，有些在稅率的部分也可以授權地方政府訂定一個上下限，甚至免徵的權限，這個部分我們會來積極研議相關的修法法案。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
羅委員明才：那個討論都太細了，一年總共加起來大概17億左右，在立法院所有的朝野立委，每個人覺得那個都不合時宜、都應該要廢了，我覺得在你現在這個立場，你也沒有什麼連不連任的壓力，現在沒有壓力了，我覺得應該是做實事、講正確的話，這些雜七雜八的小東西，事實上回歸到一句話，臺語叫「麻糬手內出」，你聽得懂嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
李次長慶華：聽不太懂。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
羅委員明才：你就好像是在做客家的麻糬一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
李次長慶華：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
羅委員明才：有人跟你要一百塊，好啊，你就覺得他不應該要一百塊，一樣的麻糬你稍微捏一下，你覺得心裡要給他多少就給他多少，就跟他講說一百塊；需要吃比較多一點的，就一樣說我賣你5塊，但是我做大塊一點的給他，裡面還多加一點花生粉，成之在你的一心嘛！所以我覺得心裡要有一個平衡點，說穿了，其實大家通通都在要錢啦！重點是你要給他多少錢，才可以真正照顧他。像新北，剛剛也講到財劃法、統籌分配稅款，臺北縣變新北市有好一點點啦，就是中央憐憫、關愛的眼神有多一點點，但是不夠啊！因為進步不多啊！大家感受不到啊！所以你在下次統籌分配稅款的時候，新北市因為有四百多萬人要多照顧一點，有很多的長輩、有很多的老者、有很多的年輕朋友、學校的問題，還有醫療的問題，所以你就要多多爭取多一點來把新北市的所有市民照顧好。反正，對其他的直轄市該給的你就多給，你要想想看到底這個餅要如何可以做得大。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
本席也曾經提過保險法第一百四十六條的修正，你把對海外的投資上限往下調降一半，回來的資金就多六兆多，六兆多你怎麼用？財政部你們可以給建議啊！金管會你們可以給方向啊！高速公路可不可以當作像高鐵一樣固定的收益，就錢滾錢，整個臺灣都熱絡起來了。所以在這裡本席要拜託次長，你已經沒有什麼連任不連任的壓力，請你冷靜，在新的會期，最近陸陸續續有很多修正的法案、條例通通都送過來了，我們大概再過兩個禮拜，新的閣揆也上任了以後，我們希望大家共來努力的是做一個可大、可長、可久，讓臺灣人民有好日子可以過的所有新的法案，希望這是可以期待的。次長，不曉得你怎麼想？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
李次長慶華：當然委員非常替全民著想，也替各縣市著想，我們不管是在稅制的修正或者像財劃法的修正方面，我覺得我們應該要考慮的部分，當然一方面除了是財政收入穩健的問題；另外一方面，當然我們要考慮整個國家產業的經濟發展問題，還要考慮到一些社會正義跟租稅公平的問題，還有簡化基層的問題，我覺得我們未來不管是在稅制的改革，或者是相關法律的修正方面，財政部會秉持這四大原則來做一些比較衡平性的考量，希望能夠在…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
羅委員明才：次長，你會不會覺得我們的稅課項目太多了？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
李次長慶華：不會！其實每個國家對於…… |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
羅委員明才：你加一加，一共有多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
李次長慶華：我們總共20個稅吧！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
羅委員明才：20個喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
李次長慶華：對，20個稅。但是各個國家都一樣，不是只有臺灣有這樣的稅制。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
羅委員明才：真的，20個稅那麼多喔！你問113個立委，請他說出有哪20個，我看一般人都講不出來，能講過一半的就不錯了，這個擾民嘛！輕稅簡政才是正辦，讓臺灣人民過好日子，才是大家應該努力的方向。我請問你，杜拜有那麼多的稅課項目嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
李次長慶華：沒有…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
羅委員明才：新加坡有嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
李次長慶華：大部分的國家應該都有不同的稅，或者是不同的費，有些不叫稅，有的是透過規費的方式來徵收，我們國家在規費這部分，基本上比較是授權地方政府在公共政策上面或公共設施上面來使用，但是像新加坡…… |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
羅委員明才：儘量不要太多啦！輕稅簡政，你看有沒有辦法降到大概10個，反正老百姓都知道我賺的錢就是繳稅，不要跟我講那麼多的項目，我就看一個人是多少，或者是怎麼樣的情況，我就繳了多少稅，結束，不要再囉嗦這個稅、那個稅，讓民眾產生一個想法，政府怎麼死要錢啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
李次長慶華：不過委員，我們稅課收入的課徵有些是著重在所得、有些是著重在財產，基本上是針對不同的所得或財產，讓每一個民眾合理地負擔一部分的稅賦，譬如說，你是沒有所得的人，但是你有房屋的人、有土地的人，你是不是應該就去繳一些財產稅，大家一起對國家的稅收都有一些合理地貢獻，這樣子比較公平合理啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
羅委員明才：好啦，就是儘量輕稅簡政，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
李次長慶華：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
主席：謝謝羅明才召委。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][1] |
接著我們請張智倫委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
58 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-1-20,15-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
蘇巧慧 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王鴻薇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
張宏陸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
張智倫 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
李柏毅 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2024-05-06 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1134101 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1134101_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查本院委員賴士葆等22人、委員傅崐萁等20人分別擬具「地方稅法通則第四條條文修正草案」
等2案 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
13.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
24.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
主席、各人、處列席、官員等主席,請李次長李次長,你好你好整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
人員的異動方面財政部是西線無戰事大家天天過好日我看到署長們大家都是笑主言開那在沒有一些人事的更迭當中我想請教一下次長因為大家都講說貧富的差距越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
78.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
66.9倍其實這個必須要正視的一個問題那最主要就是感覺像在這個集聚當中我想請問一下次長你覺得你是有錢的還是沒錢的我是中間的中間的那其實國家要做的事情就是讓有錢人富者更富讓覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
80.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
82.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我覺得就好像今天的地方的這個稅法通則一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
100.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
正在22縣市每個地方大家都想要地方自治自主財源要多一點但是我希望說市長你的政策工具很多喔怎麼樣運用智慧讓全民富起來其實這很重要的我們讓貧窮縣在66.9倍當中的40%怎麼樣多鼓勵他減輕他的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
129.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
155.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
多多照顧他,讓他搶起來,讓他富起來。簡單地講,你就把台灣很多的政策的這個措施,變成新加坡化。我請問你,杜拜,杜拜有沒有很多的稅?我在財委會發現喔,是中華民國萬萬萬的稅。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
157.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中華民國萬萬稅,這個稅那個是一大堆的稅每個地方講的大家都同理心地方錢多一點可是我覺得長此之計不是一個長遠、可長、可大、可久的方法所以市長我們之前講的娛樂稅要不要廢掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一年總共加條大概17億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
210.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
235.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
在立法院所有的草野立委每個人覺得那個都不合時宜都應該廢我覺得在你現在這個立場的話你有沒有什麼連不連任什麼的壓力現在沒有壓力我覺得應該就做實事講正確的話的時候這些雜七雜八的小的東西事實上回歸到一句話台語叫你聽得懂嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
241.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
243.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
你覺得你心裡要給他多少,就給他多少,就跟他講說100塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
261.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
291.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
比較需要吃多一點的,你就一樣說我不會給你五塊,但是我做大塊一點的給他,裡面還多加一點花生粉。這個就是沉知在你的一心嘛。所以我覺得心裡會有一個平衡點。說穿了,其實大家都在要錢啦。重點是你要給他多少錢才可以真正照顧他。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
293.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
315.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以像新北剛剛也講到財劃法統籌分配稅款臺北縣邊新北市有好一點點啦就是中央一點點憐憫關愛的眼神有多一點點但是不夠啊因為進步不多啊大家感受不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
316.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
342.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以你在下次統籌分配稅款的時候就應該給新北市因為400多萬人要多照顧一點有很多的長輩有很多的老者有很多的年輕朋友學校的問題還有醫療的問題所以你就要多多爭取多一點來把新北市的所有市民照顧好那反正 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
342.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
369.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其他的直轄市該給的你就多給你要想想看嘛到底這個餅要怎麼做可以做得到本席也曾經提過啊保險法146條的修正啊你把對海外的投資上限往下調降一半回來的資金就多6兆多啊6兆多你怎麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
371.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
400.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
財政部你們可以給建議啊金管會你們可以給方向啊高速公路可不可以拿出來當作是一個像高鐵一樣固定的收益你說錢滾錢整個台灣都熱絡起來啦所以在這裡本席要拜託市長你已經沒有什麼連任不連任的這個壓力了請你冷靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
401.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
422.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在最近有陸陸續續這個是新的會期有很多的修正的法案條例通通都送過來了我們大概再過兩個禮拜以後新的閣僑也上任了以後我們希望大家是共同來努力的是做一個可大、可長、可久讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
424.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
433.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
台灣人民有好日子可以過的所有新的這個法案希望這是可以期待的市長不曉得你怎麼想 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
434.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我覺得委員當然委員非常這個替全民著想也替各縣市著想但是就是我們不管是在稅制的修正或者是相關於像財劃法的修正方面我覺得我們應該要考慮的部分除了就是當然一方面是財政收入的穩健的問題另外一方面當然我們要考慮整個國家產業的經濟發展的問題當然還要考慮到一些社會正義跟租稅公平的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
474.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那還有解化基準的問題我覺得我們將來未來不管是稅制的改革或者是相關法律的修正方面財政部會秉持這四大原則來做一些比較橫平性的考量希望能夠在...我們現在這樣一共有多少啊?我們總共20個稅吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
480.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
500.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
二十個?對,二十個稅。但是各個國家都一樣,不是只有臺灣有這樣的數字。二十個稅那麼多,你問113個立委,請你說出二十個有哪二十個?我看一半都講不出來,可能講過一半的就不錯。這個老民嘛,清稅檢證才是正辦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
502.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
509.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
讓台灣人民過好日子才是大家應該做努力的方向那我請問你杜拜有那麼多的說客項目嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
512.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
盡量不要太多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
556.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
叫清稅減政,你看有沒有辦法降到大概10個,反正老百姓就知道我賺的錢我就繳稅,啊不要你不要跟我講那麼多的項目,我就看一個人多少或者是什麼樣的項目,我就繳了多少稅,結束。啊不要再囉嗦,哇這個稅那個稅,讓民眾有一個想法都,哇這個政府怎麼死要錢啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
557.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
稅客收入課徵 |